Giving the "We will buy Amiga" crap A MISS!
gregh
This company wants Amiga, THAT company wants Amiga, Carl Sasparilla wants amiga
.......
I gotta ask anyone reading this: do you REALLY give a shit or do you, like I,
just give it a miss?
My personal belief is that Amiga has NO CHANCE of resurfacing but I hope to be
proved wrong. However, it matters NOT what I think on that score or ANYONE
thinks on that score.... my Amiga WORKS, I use a 2000/030 with WB2.1 on the
net and web, irc, news and email.
While my Amiga WORKS, I need not spend money on another platform. When it
finally breaks down and cant be fixed or costs so much to fix that it isnt
worth the effort, then it is time for another computer.
Isnt that ALL that really matters?
I am content to let them announce whatever truth or utter BULLSHIT they want
you to believe because in the end, what difference does it really make? If
you envy CLONERS for what they have, you will buy one and if, like me, you
dont really care what they have, you will probably also be happy to stick
with it until it is impossible to use anymore.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Sysop of Amiga's Sci-Fi BBS gr...@fl.net.au Chow Chow lover! |
|Are you old when you enjoy a good headbanger record with others over 40?|
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander W. Dorn
gr...@fl.net.au (gregh) wrote:
>This company wants Amiga, THAT company wants Amiga, Carl Sasparilla wants amiga
>.......
>I gotta ask anyone reading this: do you REALLY give a shit or do you, like I,
>just give it a miss?
>>> snip <<<
>While my Amiga WORKS, I need not spend money on another platform. When it
>finally breaks down and cant be fixed or costs so much to fix that it isnt
>worth the effort, then it is time for another computer.
>Isnt that ALL that really matters?
>I am content to let them announce whatever truth or utter BULLSHIT they want
>you to believe because in the end, what difference does it really make? If
>you envy CLONERS for what they have, you will buy one and if, like me, you
>dont really care what they have, you will probably also be happy to stick
>with it until it is impossible to use anymore.
Only one issue makes it important as to the Amiga's future, and that
is for people who want to expand their machine.
For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years, and now wants to
do a little more, should he spend $400US on a graphics card and
$850US, when $1000 will get him a low-end Pentium?
Now, put forward that it costs more to boost an existing Amiga than to
purchase a new Pentium, and put forward, that this user likes his
Amiga more than he wants a Pentium, or he would not even consider the
Amiga path and would simply purchase a Pentium, he is given the
question - "Should I sink money into my computer when it may not be
around a year from now?"
This is the only reason I know of that this question has any
importance.
Just a thought
Alexander W. Dorn
Thank you for your time.
Alexander W. Dorn
--------------------------------------
Hope - It is the instinct of our souls
and the energizer of our minds.
Terry Palfrey
In article <32eaef55...@news.onramp.net>,
dc...@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <32eaef55...@news.onramp.net>
> References: <5c65f3$e...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
> Posted: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:56:29 GMT
>
> On 22 Jan 1997 15:48:03 -0700,
> awd...@primenet.com (Alexander W. Dorn) wrote:
>
> >For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years,
> >and now wants to do a little more, should he spend
> >$400US on a graphics card and $850US, when $1000 will
> >get him a low-end Pentium?
>
> as we've discussed. :)
>
Nope, sorry Corn, this stock A3000 will be upgraded.
The MMX scam is just the latest in the bait and switch act.
I bought a pentium added the extra ram and worked from a
clean Win95 install. Within one year I am laughed at as
a fool who didn't know what he should have bought and
generally derided for my low power one year old machine.
Heh, good thing my wife needed it not me.
Now if I buy an accelerator and extra ram along with a
graphics card like the cybergraphix one then I know that I
will be getting a machine upgrade on the order of 20X for
an 060, twice my ram space, and a higher resolution many
coloured display that runs all of my tools and applications
past what my ill fated pentium purchase is capable of.
AS you people go through another round of motherboard
upgrades and another ram bite I'll still have my machine
running fast enough to do NETBSD and by then the pentium will
also be fixed up with a little extra ram and another OS.
If I need an app, well that buy a mac powerbook and run
shapeshifter to use any apps I need sounded just fine.
I know my multitasking environment will rock over any M$
design for a couple of years yet - the mindset still hasn't
sunk in properly.
You buy the MMX and bloody VDXXXX for all I care.
Terry
David Corn
>For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years, and now wants to
>do a little more, should he spend $400US on a graphics card and
>$850US, when $1000 will get him a low-end Pentium?
$800 gets him the highest end (save MMX) Pentium around, as we've
discussed. :)
________________________________________________
Reachable at: 713 629 6947 nights
Please quote in all replies
gregh
On 23-Jan-97 08:48:03, Alexander W. Dorn assaulted me about Re: Giving the "We
will buy Amiga" crap A MISS!
>>This company wants Amiga, THAT company wants Amiga, Carl Sasparilla wants
>>amiga
>>.......
>>I gotta ask anyone reading this: do you REALLY give a shit or do you, like
>>I, just give it a miss?
>>>> snip <<<
>>While my Amiga WORKS, I need not spend money on another platform. When it
>>finally breaks down and cant be fixed or costs so much to fix that it isnt
>>worth the effort, then it is time for another computer.
>>Isnt that ALL that really matters?
>>I am content to let them announce whatever truth or utter BULLSHIT they want
>>you to believe because in the end, what difference does it really make? If
>>you envy CLONERS for what they have, you will buy one and if, like me, you
>>dont really care what they have, you will probably also be happy to stick
>>with it until it is impossible to use anymore.
AWD> Only one issue makes it important as to the Amiga's future, and that
AWD> is for people who want to expand their machine.
Alexander,
That depends on the person.
AWD> For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years, and now wants to
AWD> do a little more, should he spend $400US on a graphics card and
AWD> $850US, when $1000 will get him a low-end Pentium?
You missed the point. If you envy what CLONERS have then you will buy one.
If you dont envy it, what does it matter WHAT they have or the utter crap
that gets announced now and then about Amiga's future?
AWD> Now, put forward that it costs more to boost an existing Amiga than to
AWD> purchase a new Pentium, and put forward, that this user likes his
AWD> Amiga more than he wants a Pentium, or he would not even consider the
AWD> Amiga path and would simply purchase a Pentium, he is given the
AWD> question - "Should I sink money into my computer when it may not be
AWD> around a year from now?"
A question well asked of people like myself who hung onto the TI-99/4A for
years past it's use-by date. In the end, it was impossible to use. However,
I made the mistake of sinking over $5000 into it before I got rid of it. This
time around, I dont sink money into things FOR Amiga unless they can be used
on any other platform OR there is a real good use for the item. I havent
bought one AMIGA specific thing except games (which I also havent bought
for over a year because they arent there anymore) since 1994.
AWD> This is the only reason I know of that this question has any
AWD> importance.
Then you have missed the point of what I wrote, unfortunately. It may be the
only important thing to you but it is neither here nor there in the point I
tried to make.
David Corn
>> >For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years,
>> >and now wants to do a little more, should he spend
>> >$400US on a graphics card and $850US, when $1000 will
>> >get him a low-end Pentium?
>>
>> $800 gets him the highest end (save MMX) Pentium around,
>> as we've discussed. :)
>>
>
>Nope, sorry Corn, this stock A3000 will be upgraded.
No need to be sorry, Terry - you can do whatever you wish on your
machine.
>The MMX scam is just the latest in the bait and switch act.
Offer something, then switch to something else? Can you detail that
for me? That doesn't make any sense.
>I bought a pentium added the extra ram and worked from a
>clean Win95 install. Within one year I am laughed at as
>a fool who didn't know what he should have bought and
>generally derided for my low power one year old machine.
You could have easily asked for advice from this forum, and I'm sure
many people would've happily given input. At some point it's easier
to start from scratch with a non-proprietary machine, and I suggest
people do that before they seriously consider buying lots of hardware
to upgrade their current proprietary machine.
>Heh, good thing my wife needed it not me.
>Now if I buy an accelerator and extra ram along with a
>graphics card like the cybergraphix one then I know that I
>will be getting a machine upgrade on the order of 20X for
>an 060, twice my ram space, and a higher resolution many
>coloured display that runs all of my tools and applications
>past what my ill fated pentium purchase is capable of.
We'll have to disagree on that until you can demonstrate running
Office97 on the Amiga.
>AS you people go through another round of motherboard
>upgrades and another ram bite I'll still have my machine
>running fast enough to do NETBSD and by then the pentium will
>also be fixed up with a little extra ram and another OS.
*YOU* are going to run NetBSD? That I'd like to see.
>If I need an app, well that buy a mac powerbook and run
>shapeshifter to use any apps I need sounded just fine.
I saw a Pb165c & StyleWriter II (030/33, color, dual scan, with inkjet
printer) for $500 locally, if anyone is interested. At that price
point, I don't think it makes much sense to use an emulator. For
$1299 160 mhz PowerMacs are commonly available, well equipped.
>I know my multitasking environment will rock over any M$
>design for a couple of years yet - the mindset still hasn't
>sunk in properly.
I think the mindset problem rests firmly with you.
>You buy the MMX and bloody VDXXXX for all I care.
?? I haven't mentioned purchasing MMX. In fact I specificly said the
$800 machine did *NOT* have MMX. Didn't you read that?
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>Nope, sorry Corn, this stock A3000 will be upgraded.
>The MMX scam is just the latest in the bait and switch act.
>I bought a pentium added the extra ram and worked from a
>clean Win95 install. Within one year I am laughed at as
>a fool who didn't know what he should have bought and
>generally derided for my low power one year old machine.
No, Terry. You are not derided for having a one year old machine. You
are derided (and have been for most of that one year, BTW), for buying
a complete piece of junk, and using it to "benchmark PCs".
Your Aptiva is crap. Every single component, as far as I can tell, is
crap, and that's not counting the components completely missing. If
some cloner produced an A1200 with the bus clocked down by 25%, AGA
limited to half its already miserable bandwidth, and harddisks that
were half as fast as what the A1200 is commonly sold with, would you
think saying "the A1200 sucks" based on that clone would be fair? Would
you go easy on anyone saying exactly that?
Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995
Alexander W. Dorn
dc...@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) wrote:
>On 22 Jan 1997 15:48:03 -0700, awd...@primenet.com (Alexander W. Dorn)
>wrote:
>>For the person who has, say, a Stock A3000 for years, and now wants to
>>do a little more, should he spend $400US on a graphics card and
>>$850US, when $1000 will get him a low-end Pentium?
>$800 gets him the highest end (save MMX) Pentium around, as we've
>discussed. :)
Plus the cost of all of the software needed, as we've discussed.
Besides the fact that most people don't go shopping for a computer on
the internet newsgroups, as we've discussed.
Besides the fact that this has little to do with the origial post,
again!
Original Supposition:
Why does anyone really care about who owns the Amiga? As long as it
works today, and still does what the user wants, who the (colorful
phrase removed) cares who owns or manufacturers it?
My Answer:
The person who is considering upgrading their machine, or getting a
newer model would like more security in knowing that the machine will
be around a while before spending moo koo ducketts.
In my answer, I basically put across that a compfortable PC could be
had for less than the price of a few typical Amiga upgrades.
I suggested that only people who preferred the Amiga way of doing
things would be interested, and only if they specifically did not want
to change to another computer platform.
Your Response:
My quote for the average price of a PC is too high.
Talk about nit-picking out of context. I give the PC the advantage in
the price compairison, but that's not enough for you?
I'm sorry, David, but this one is silly, really silly. Do you not
have a life? Do you not do anything all day but prowl the Internet
Newsgroups looking for silly fights? Are you trying to get back at
the world that always picked you last when you were a kid?
Every once in a while, I come into these newsgroups, either when work
is a little slow, or when I have a technical question to put to a
large forum of people in the know. These newsgroups are useful in
that way, and can be entertaining, just to see what's out there. They
can allow people to speak freely about a subject, and can allow
someone to get a large idea of what people think about a subject.
Your posts do none of that. They simply take an argumentitive stance
against what someone writes, and usually by taking it completely out
of context.
The Topic: Why do people care about who finally gets ownership of the
Amiga Technology? Do you have an answer to this, or simply more and
more sorry little bickerings to add to these newsgroups. Do you also
not have an opinoin, rather than, of course, "Your wrong, I'm right?"
Alexander W. Dorn
gr...@fl.net.au (gregh) wrote:
>On 23-Jan-97 08:48:03, Alexander W. Dorn assaulted me about Re: Giving the "We
>will buy Amiga" crap A MISS!
>>>I gotta ask anyone reading this: do you REALLY give a shit or do you, like
>>>I, just give it a miss?
> AWD> Only one issue makes it important as to the Amiga's future, and that
> AWD> is for people who want to expand their machine.
>Alexander,
>That depends on the person.
>>> Snip <<<
>Then you have missed the point of what I wrote, unfortunately. It may be the
>only important thing to you but it is neither here nor there in the point I
>tried to make.
I'm sorry. I did not know you were specifically trying to make a
point. I legitimately thought you were asking a question, and I tried
to answer that question.
I'm sorry if this offended you.
As part of my job, I often "get" to lend technical support to a few of
our field techs, and, quite often, I get asked what some would
consider a stupid question. Being the polite type that I am, I do my
best to answer these questions as if they were legitimate, as I don't
like to make people feel as if I am talking down to them. They often
apreciate this, but it also means that, because I am in practice, I
often begin to answer rhetorical questions.
This is not the first time I have done it in the newsgroups. Probably
won't be the last.
Terry Palfrey
Msg-ID: <32e7ba8c...@news.onramp.net>
References: <89438-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
Posted: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:28:32 GMT
David Corn, dc...@paradise.pplnet.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 97 21:52:00 -0800,
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) wrote:
>>Nope, sorry Corn, this stock A3000 will be upgraded.
>No need to be sorry, Terry - you can do whatever you
>wish on your machine.
I'll have to document your many DODGE/BOB/WEAVE tactics.
You have a way of ducking real questions and when people
come back at you you switch topics or the thrust of the
post.
>>The MMX scam is just the latest in the bait and switch act.
>Offer something, then switch to something else? Can you
>detail that for me? That doesn't make any sense.
Well it goes like this, buy a 133MHz or 166MHz and avoid
instant obsolescence. Now we have MMX, then we'll have
P6 200MHz and then we'll see the duals and then we move
to NT and another 32 megs of ram for those must have
applications. In the end David, you have to have the ram
to run, VM doesn't cut it any more than emulation or
slow CPU's. But hey, but ram is cheap. Now.
>>I bought a pentium added the extra ram and worked from a
>>clean Win95 install. Within one year I am laughed at as
>>a fool who didn't know what he should have bought and
>>generally derided for my low power one year old machine.
>You could have easily asked for advice from this forum,
>and I'm sure many people would've happily given input.
>At some point it's easier to start from scratch with a
>non-proprietary machine, and I suggest people do that
>before they seriously consider buying lots of hardware
>to upgrade their current proprietary machine.
Oh dear, how short are our memories.
::References: <17837...@p14.f411.n201.z2.ftn>
::Posted: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 06:18:48 GMT
::Ah well....is 16megs of EDO ram and Pent 90 enough to
::productive work and is 15" with 2 meg video card the
::proper way to display for a win95 setup? Is there
::anything else I need to consider? My wife needs
::a machine and she ain't using mine.
It wasn't answered. Not a whisper. Not even by you.
I don't think anyone was a real expert back then on
the order that everyone seems to be now. The prices
were still hardwired well above the reach of the less
than $250 a month OAC crowd, I don't think they even
sold computers like that in 95, to tres elite.
::Msg-ID: <81007-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
::Posted: Sat, 02 Dec 95 02:31:55 -0800
::Say Mike, I've been forced by circumstances to allow
::a win95 pentium system into the house. It's not mine
::but my wife's because I won't share my A3000 but I
::have this hankering to try it out. Can you give me
::some pointers to stuff that will allow at least a
::workalike to cygnus ed, diropus, ncomm and a shell?
But you dropped in here and made some snide comments:
::References: <2206122556@p14.f411.n201.z2.ftn>
::Posted: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 09:37:14 GMT
::>DirOpus: There's no real counterpart. The closest
::>you'll get will be WinCommander. The current version
::>is 2.5, but you'll find that it doesn't have a fraction
::>of the features of DOpus.
::Translation: Mike hasn't yet figured out Explorer.
[retranslation - David doesn't know squat about DirOpus]
and:
::I've never found a need to replace MSDOS. I've learned Win95.
[lol]
::>Disclaimer: all of the above is AFAIK. Perhaps there IS
::>a good, non-crippled shareware text editor etc for Windows
::>which is not textmode etc, but I've no run into them
::>- and I've looked.
::Wordpad is great. :)
Care to tell me where the AREXX port is? How big a document
can I format and edit on wordpad with what fonts? Yep, how
do you make it full screen like Cygnus Ed? Run five copies?
[consistency seems to be your high point]
::Msg-ID: <81272-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
::Posted: Sat, 09 Dec 95 12:52:26 -0800
Remember this? Head to head, I was offering to strip
the A3000 down to match your 8 meg Win95 machine.
::T>>and work only from your budget. I'd love to upgrade
::T>>to 16 megs of ram to run the current OS but will take
::T>>out two megs to run at 8 if you want and we'll see who
::T>>stalls first in the climb.
::D>I suspect most Win95 installations have 4M or 8M, not 16M.
::T>I think that is what they are sold at...Win3.1 is 4 megs
::T>and should be 8 and Win95 on Pentiums is 8 and should be 16
::T>at least that's what I am getting to start for my wife.
Gee, no advice here either, guess you didn't know enough yet.
Oh, the prices, they were still in the stratosphere and you
sure as hell didn't have a max system working no matter what
you intimate. There was no software was there? Early Win95.
In fact Win95 didn't have much in the way of apps either.
References: <4cb2k0$6...@snail.stack.urc.tue.nl>
Posted: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 19:52:21 GMT
You and Harold, nose to nose:
::>>My uncle has already had to upgrade his system some times.
::>>First from 486/33 to 486/66. Then add 4mb of ram to 8mb.
::>>He installed Win95 but deinstalled it again after some weeks,
::>>because it took to much mem, diskspace and it was slow. Now
::>>he's back to Win 3.11 :-)
::>Too bad. Eventually he'll find something he's got to have
::>that requires Win95. A 66 runs Win95 very well.
Yah, you'd blow the doors off my A3000 eh? Not then, not now,
then there's the operator factor as well. Hot air is only good
in balloons not in real life competition. In retrospect we now
know which orifice this stuff was blown from. Hey where's Adam?
>>Heh, good thing my wife needed it not me.
>>Now if I buy an accelerator and extra ram along with a
>>graphics card like the cybergraphix one then I know that I
>>will be getting a machine upgrade on the order of 20X for
>>an 060, twice my ram space, and a higher resolution many
>>coloured display that runs all of my tools and applications
>>past what my ill fated pentium purchase is capable of.
Yah, David, the machine works, but it ain't elegant, refined
or polished - only a brute force example of piggery. Nothing
you can say will change that. Maybe when everyone moves to
NT you'll have something worth advocating, right now all you
are is an apologist.
Terry
Terry Palfrey
In article <5c7mbn$5...@wombat.hanse.de>,
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <5c7mbn$5...@wombat.hanse.de>
> References: <89438-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
> Posted: 23 Jan 1997 23:42:31 +1100
>
> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>
> >Nope, sorry Corn, this stock A3000 will be upgraded.
> >clean Win95 install. Within one year I am laughed at as
> >a fool who didn't know what he should have bought and
> >generally derided for my low power one year old machine.
>
> machine. You are derided (and have been for most of that
> one year, BTW), for buying a complete piece of junk, and
> using it to "benchmark PCs".
>
> Your Aptiva is crap. Every single component, as far as I
> can tell, is crap, and that's not counting the components
> completely missing. If some cloner produced an A1200 with
> the bus clocked down by 25%, AGA limited to half its already
> miserable bandwidth, and harddisks that were half as fast as
> what the A1200 is commonly sold with, would you think saying
> "the A1200 sucks" based on that clone would be fair? Would
> you go easy on anyone saying exactly that?
Find my other posts. My controller is EIDE, the drive is
1.1gigs, it has a 1meg pci mpeg video card, an ibm mwave
modem, 16 megs of ram from the largest computer manufacturer
in the world or close to it. In 1995 that was a power machine.
Sure it is only a P75 but hey 90's and 100's were just new.
I didn't have your sanguine advice back then, you didn't know
shit either, remember you wouldn't even say what the hell you
put into "working" configuration machines that you assembled
for your employer in the context of what was needed to run
Windows. Remember that? Wasn't that too much of a giveaway?
You were still only a pc correctionist back then right? You
and your pure as driven snow linux advocacy as a pc OS that
could do the job.
You example above is pure shit. No one talked about dumbing down
a clone. I bought market standard and added ram, upgraded the
modem and several other little things. Prices were very high.
Taking an ordinary A1200 and not enhancing it and then demanding
that it perform would be a different story. But when the Aptiva
was bought Corn et al were still saying that 486/66's were
adequate to run Win95. And you Bernd Meyer wouldn't say shit if
you had a mouthful when it came to giving out the specs that
you were building to for your boss's clients.
Get a life Bernd.
Terry
gregh
On 25-Jan-97 10:26:01, Alexander W. Dorn assaulted me about Re: Giving the "We
will buy Amiga" crap A MISS!
>>>>I gotta ask anyone reading this: do you REALLY give a shit or do you, like
>>>>I, just give it a miss?
>> AWD> Only one issue makes it important as to the Amiga's future, and that
>> AWD> is for people who want to expand their machine.
>>Alexander,
>>That depends on the person.
>>>> Snip <<<
>>Then you have missed the point of what I wrote, unfortunately. It may be the
>>only important thing to you but it is neither here nor there in the point I
>>tried to make.
AWD> I'm sorry. I did not know you were specifically trying to make a
AWD> point. I legitimately thought you were asking a question, and I tried
AWD> to answer that question.
AWD> I'm sorry if this offended you.
AWD> As part of my job, I often "get" to lend technical support to a few of
AWD> our field techs, and, quite often, I get asked what some would
AWD> consider a stupid question. Being the polite type that I am, I do my
AWD> best to answer these questions as if they were legitimate, as I don't
AWD> like to make people feel as if I am talking down to them. They often
AWD> apreciate this, but it also means that, because I am in practice, I
AWD> often begin to answer rhetorical questions.
AWD> This is not the first time I have done it in the newsgroups. Probably
AWD> won't be the last.
Alexander,
The point, basically, was "Why bother what people say or do either on the WE ARE
BUYING AMIGA or YOUR MACHINE IS DEAD front?" if your machine is doing what you
isnt on the streets or if it is, then that Amiga cant do what you want to do
NOW. Also, there was the idea that if your AMiga dies to the point where it
costs so much to repair that it isnt worth it, then you will change, then,
most likely.
So, given the above, what does it REALLY matter who the Amiga goes to or when?
Let the bastards thrash it out and in the meantime leave us to our own thing
until they have something CONCRETE and PROVABLE to show us. I tend NOT to
believe a damned THING said about who is buying Amiga now. Most is just
plain bullshit and the rest leaves you shaking your head in disgust. Amiga
needs a CASH COW who is willing to pay people who know to develope the machine
and not expect return from the thing for at least 3 years. Without that, we
may as well return to our thing and await one event or the other (machine
dies irrepairably or you need to do something AMiga cant do) and given events
at that time, make your decisions then.
For my part, I believe the only real way Amiga can survive is for a cash rich
company to buy the rights out and then give the machine to a group of
interested individuals to develope without expecting anythingin return for
at least 3 years. Without this, we are all headed towards some other
platform within the next 10 years, anyway.
Ian Kennedy
> Find my other posts. My controller is EIDE, the drive is
> 1.1gigs, it has a 1meg pci mpeg video card, an ibm mwave
> modem, 16 megs of ram from the largest computer manufacturer
> in the world or close to it. In 1995 that was a power machine.
The Aptiva is SHIT. No amount of spec quoting will change that. So the HD
is EIDE? So fucking what! Just beacuse my old honda civic runs on unleaded
gas doesn't make it a ferrari. Oooo! A 1Meg video card. Gag. My old 486/66
had 2MB VRAM.
An APTIVA was never a power machine and you're an idiot for buying one. And
even more of an idiot if you think people will actually take you seriously
whne you use it as the standard for Ix86 machines. Sheesh. I'd rather play
Sword of Sodan on my old A500 than piss on an Aptiva.
Ed Hanway
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
: If some cloner produced an A1200 with the bus clocked down by 25%, AGA
: limited to half its already miserable bandwidth, and harddisks that
: were half as fast as what the A1200 is commonly sold with, would you
: think saying "the A1200 sucks" based on that clone would be fair? Would
: you go easy on anyone saying exactly that?
Didn't Commodore do that? It was called the A600.
[Note: 1/2 :)]
--
Ed Hanway <han...@kodak.com>
Opinions expressed are my own, except the ones which aren't.
Terry Palfrey
In article <01bc0c1d$66b42c40$b27e2299@iankhome>, IanK...@msn.com (Ian
Kennedy) writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <01bc0c1d$66b42c40$b27e2299@iankhome>
> References: <89477-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
> Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:51:28 -0800
Ooh, aren't we the clever one. Missed the rest of the post did you?
Now, are you a clone advocate? Or an AMIGA advocate?
Sorry kid, an IBM real machine not clone is as good as any standard.
Your old 486 had a pci bus too did it?
Terry
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>Sorry kid, an IBM real machine not clone is as good as any standard.
What makes you think that, Terry?
>Your old 486 had a pci bus too did it?
Quite possibly --- one of the things we _did_ put into PCs when I was still
building them, in early '95, was 486 PCI boards. Didn't you know that?
Terry Palfrey
In article <5cjl7g$6...@wombat.hanse.de>,
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <5cjl7g$6...@wombat.hanse.de>
> References: <89501-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
> Posted: 28 Jan 1997 12:36:48 +1100
>
> Org. : This is innd taking over...
>
> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>
> >Sorry kid, an IBM real machine not clone is as good
> >as any standard.
>
> What makes you think that, Terry?
>
> >Your old 486 had a pci bus too did it?
>
> Quite possibly --- one of the things we _did_ put into PCs
> when I was still building them, in early '95, was 486 PCI
> boards. Didn't you know that?
>
Standard is something that everyone uses. I'm not talking ISO
here but common business acceptance. When major corporations
buy IBM "ONLY" and offer purchase plans for employees then I
can safely assume "standard" applies. There is an old phrase
I bumped into when I worked for a different manufacturer which
went "You can't get fired for buying IBM."
Secondly, remembering the audience here when he said "my" I
assumed that he wouldn't have had the money to upgrade to that
level and <<CLONE>> pricing such as Sternberg and Corn quote
would have obviated the choice by making it cheaper to buy
the processor/video/sound and pci bus as a package.
Don't worry about what I know Bernd, just worry about what I
remember.
Terry
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au writes:
>> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>>
>> >Sorry kid, an IBM real machine not clone is as good
>> >as any standard.
>>
>> What makes you think that, Terry?
>>
>here but common business acceptance. When major corporations
>buy IBM "ONLY" and offer purchase plans for employees then I
>can safely assume "standard" applies. There is an old phrase
>I bumped into when I worked for a different manufacturer which
>went "You can't get fired for buying IBM."
Terry, you just demonstrated that your knowledge is based in
mainframe time. "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" was replaced
with "nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft" many many years ago.
>Don't worry about what I know Bernd, just worry about what I
>remember.
Extremely little to worry about, either way ;-)
Terry Palfrey
So who does design and sell a proper clone machine Bernd?
Care to tell us? And its price range? Warranty period?
Terry
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>So who does design and sell a proper clone machine Bernd?
Well, my brother just ordered one today, from HiTec in Washington. It's
a P133 with a 2M Diamond graphics card, 512k pipeline burst cache, 32M
of EDO Ram, a decent Maxtor 2.1G Maxtor IDE harddisk, a motherboard with
a Triton II chipset, a Logitech mouse, a Mitsumi keyboard, a 12-speed
ATAPI CD-ROM and a 16 bit soundcard (probably the SB16PnP, that one was
not quite settled when we last talked), an Acer 33.6k modem, a parallel
port ZIP drive and a Sony 15sf monitor. That's a decent system (it comes
with Win95 preinstalled, more is the pity ;-)
>Care to tell us? And its price range?
All the above goes for $2235; You can certainly get it alot cheaper, but
buying locally from someone who seems to know what they are talking about
is important for my brother and his wife, as they themselves do know
very little.
Also, one of the specifications was that monitor and computer have power
supplies which can be switched to 220V as well as the US standard of 110V.
>Warranty period?
It doesn't say. However, in all my life I had to use warranty on computer
parts exactly once, and that was a day after buying my P166 motherboard ---
the cache module was flaky.
Hope this helps,
Terry Palfrey
Bernd Meyers, bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote in:
Msg-ID: <5cn4mh$r...@wombat.hanse.de>
References: <89513-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
Posted: 29 Jan 1997 20:19:13 +1100
[in response to who does make a good clone]
>Hope this helps,
No Bernd, the time to help was when I originally
purchased the machine. Back in late 95. That was
the time to have the specs and advice handy. You
certainly were the most technically inclined one
posting then.
Missed a few posts did we? Or just skip them?
Thank goodness that it was not my need for a
machine that drove the purchase and that the
overall package discount allowed for several
things that my AMIGA can use too. And we all
know that even my poor pent can be perked up
by installing linux or OS2 along with 16 meg
of ram and a cache.
What a difference a year can make. So many
new experts with all the answers. My AMIGA
continues to perform at optimum levels and
an upgrade to an 040 with more ram will be
in the cards this year. I'd like an 060 to
round it out but the price is still beyond
my reach and I can probably live with only
a 10X speed increase in processing power.
Terry
John Sheehy
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>No Bernd, the time to help was when I originally
>purchased the machine. Back in late 95. That was
>the time to have the specs and advice handy. You
>certainly were the most technically inclined one
>posting then.
Would you like an adult to escort you to the bathroom? We all make
mistakes. As we mature, we learn to take the blame for our mistakes.
>Missed a few posts did we? Or just skip them?
>
>Thank goodness that it was not my need for a
>machine that drove the purchase and that the
>overall package discount allowed for several
>things that my AMIGA can use too. And we all
>know that even my poor pent can be perked up
>by installing linux or OS2 along with 16 meg
>of ram and a cache.
>
>What a difference a year can make. So many
>new experts with all the answers. My AMIGA
>continues to perform at optimum levels and
>an upgrade to an 040 with more ram will be
>in the cards this year. I'd like an 060 to
>round it out but the price is still beyond
>my reach and I can probably live with only
>a 10X speed increase in processing power.
10x in what? In ray-tracing, perhaps, not in regular usage. Your ram
speed will only double or triple at best, your HD speed will stay the
same or actually drop a few percent unless the CPU card has it's own
controller. Of course, to reap all the benefits of the 040 card, you
need for your ram to be on your accelerator, and chances are it won't
accept your zips. Same slow chipram with contention unless you get a
graphics card.
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Terry Palfrey
Msg-ID: <32ffde51...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
References: <89514-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
Posted: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:36:01 GMT
John Sheehy, jsh...@ix.netcom.com writes:
:Would you like an adult to escort you to the bathroom?
:We all make mistakes. As we mature, we learn to take
:the blame for our mistakes.
John, I know that standards for reading comprehension are
relaxed well past the public school system standards here
in advocacy but this takes the cake. The reply I made was
in response to Corn's rash statement that I should have
asked for help in this newgroup. What is it you are on
about?
[snip]
:10x in what? In ray-tracing, perhaps, not in regular usage.
:Your ram speed will only double or triple at best, your HD
:speed will stay the same or actually drop a few percent unless
:the CPU card has it's own controller. Of course, to reap all
:the benefits of the 040 card, you need for your ram to be on
:your accelerator, and chances are it won't accept your zips.
:Same slow chipram with contention unless you get a graphics card.
What no caustic comments on fixing up the Aptiva?
Gee, John, you mean that an 040 40MHz will not perform at 10X
the speed of an 030 25MHz? Okay. And I have to raytrace to get
a noticeable performance boost? Boy am I glad you're here helping
me out.
not.
Terry
Terry Palfrey
Heh Bernd, go dig out the posts of me whining about
why isn't my pentium 20X faster than my A3000, you made
a very interesting explanation about it being 2 to 3X
faster because of the bus etc..
Someone now wants to say an 040/40MHz + 16megs won't be
more than 3X as fast as my present 030 25MHz.
The pentium can be fixed by putting linux on it, right?
Or adding another 16 megs of ram and a cache right?
Or both right?
Who cares, my AMIGA is very responsive as it is.
Terry
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>Bernd Meyers, bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote in:
>Msg-ID: <5cn4mh$r...@wombat.hanse.de>
>References: <89513-8...@mindlink.bc.ca>
>Posted: 29 Jan 1997 20:19:13 +1100
>[in response to who does make a good clone]
>>Hope this helps,
>No Bernd, the time to help was when I originally
>purchased the machine. Back in late 95. That was
>the time to have the specs and advice handy. You
>certainly were the most technically inclined one
>posting then.
>Missed a few posts did we? Or just skip them?
Well, Terry, the posts you reposted just recently I probably
just skipped as "typical Terry provocation". I mean, it wasn't
like they sounded as if you were asking for advice.... They
sounded more like the typical "come on, tell me a P90 or P100
won't cut it".
Considering I was finishing up my diploma thesis at the time, and
prepared my move to Oz, I probably just hit "n" on them. Or, another
possibility, they might have reached my server just when I was in Oz
for a couple of weeks to do all the paperwork. You know, that's what
email is for....
BTW, what ever happened to the P90 or P100 you were inquiring about?
>Thank goodness that it was not my need for a
>machine that drove the purchase and that the
>overall package discount allowed for several
>things that my AMIGA can use too. And we all
>know that even my poor pent can be perked up
>by installing linux or OS2 along with 16 meg
>of ram and a cache.
And a decent graphics card, of course. And maybe a new motherboard
(still didn't say anything about your EIDE controller, did you?).
And a decent processor (i.e. one with n*33MHz, for n being an integer).
>What a difference a year can make. So many
>new experts with all the answers. My AMIGA
>continues to perform at optimum levels and
>an upgrade to an 040 with more ram will be
>in the cards this year. I'd like an 060 to
>round it out but the price is still beyond
>my reach and I can probably live with only
>a 10X speed increase in processing power.
When you do it, could you please do a _measurement_ (whatever you seem
to think that is) of the speedup you actually get, and post the results?
I will then dig out your "my Pentium has a CPU which should be X times
faster, why isn't the whole machine X times faster" whining and ask you
the same question about your 040, OK?
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>Heh Bernd, go dig out the posts of me whining about
>why isn't my pentium 20X faster than my A3000, you made
>a very interesting explanation about it being 2 to 3X
>faster because of the bus etc..
So you remember it. No need to go digging. The finer points
were lost on you, anyway, and the drift you got.
>Someone now wants to say an 040/40MHz + 16megs won't be
>more than 3X as fast as my present 030 25MHz.
Well, I haven't seen any post to that effect yet, but hey --- yes, your
upgrade to an 040 won't speed up the machine by a factor of 10 or
20 for exactly the same reasons the Pentium is not 20 times faster
in real life than your Amiga.
>The pentium can be fixed by putting linux on it, right?
Nope. Putting linux on a machine doesn't make 70ns RAM into 5 ns RAM,
and it doesn't make a 33 MHz bus into a 500MHz bus. Your Pentium will
not be 20 times as fast as your Amiga in daily usage, no matter what you
do.
[more pointless Terry-drivel deleted]
Tim Patterson
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
>
> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>
> >So who does design and sell a proper clone machine Bernd?
>
> Well, my brother just ordered one today, from HiTec in Washington. It's
> a P133 with a 2M Diamond graphics card, 512k pipeline burst cache, 32M
> of EDO Ram, a decent Maxtor 2.1G Maxtor IDE harddisk, a motherboard with
> a Triton II chipset, a Logitech mouse, a Mitsumi keyboard, a 12-speed
> ATAPI CD-ROM and a 16 bit soundcard (probably the SB16PnP, that one was
> not quite settled when we last talked), an Acer 33.6k modem, a parallel
> port ZIP drive and a Sony 15sf monitor. That's a decent system (it comes
> with Win95 preinstalled, more is the pity ;-)
>
> >Care to tell us? And its price range?
>
> All the above goes for $2235; You can certainly get it alot cheaper, but
> buying locally from someone who seems to know what they are talking about
> is important for my brother and his wife, as they themselves do know
> very little.
Seems a bit excessive for somebody who isn't going to be
a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
games?
David Corn
>Seems a bit excessive for somebody who isn't going to be
>a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
>games?
What do you suggest? A Pentium 75? That's ~$100, versus the P133's
~$200. So they'll halve, roughly, their speed to gain $100, or 1/22th
the cost of the entire computer.
That sounds like a bad idea to me.
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Tim Patterson <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> writes:
>bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
>> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
>>
>> >So who does design and sell a proper clone machine Bernd?
>>
>> Well, my brother just ordered one today, from HiTec in Washington. It's
>> a P133 with a 2M Diamond graphics card, 512k pipeline burst cache, 32M
>> of EDO Ram, a decent Maxtor 2.1G Maxtor IDE harddisk, a motherboard with
>> a Triton II chipset, a Logitech mouse, a Mitsumi keyboard, a 12-speed
>> ATAPI CD-ROM and a 16 bit soundcard (probably the SB16PnP, that one was
>> not quite settled when we last talked), an Acer 33.6k modem, a parallel
>> port ZIP drive and a Sony 15sf monitor. That's a decent system (it comes
>> with Win95 preinstalled, more is the pity ;-)
>>
>a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
>games?
Uhm, first of all, who said that the two of them weren't "power users"?
My brother has a PhD in chemistry, and if you ever looked into the com-
bination of chemistry and computers, you'd know there's a _lot_ of CPU
to burn there. His wife is a university-trained dietitian giving courses
on proper diet plans. This includes so called "diaries", where course
participants write down everything they eat each week, and she then enters
it into the computer and has the machine grab all the dietary values
(dozens of them, including stuff you've never heard of before) for those
foods from a giant database, summing it all up and in the end coming up
with recommendations on how to change the diet.
Secondly --- which bit is "excessive"? I.e. where do you think a significant
amount of money could be saved without giving up an even more significant
amount of everyday performance?
And thirdly --- yes, they like to play a game every now and again. So sue
them.
Tim Patterson
David Corn wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:33:05 -0700, Tim Patterson
> <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> >a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
> >games?
>
> ~$200. So they'll halve, roughly, their speed to gain $100, or 1/22th
> the cost of the entire computer.
>
> That sounds like a bad idea to me.
> ________________________________________________
> Reachable at: 713 629 6947 nights
> Please quote in all replies
How about a secondhand 486 system? Could get one of those
for well under $1000 and it will do most things that the
average computer user needs, except for running the
newest games software of course.
Tim Patterson
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
>
> Tim Patterson <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> writes:
> >bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
> >> Terry_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) writes:
> >>
> >> >So who does design and sell a proper clone machine Bernd?
> >>
> >> Well, my brother just ordered one today, from HiTec in Washington. It's
> >> a P133 with a 2M Diamond graphics card, 512k pipeline burst cache, 32M
> >> of EDO Ram, a decent Maxtor 2.1G Maxtor IDE harddisk, a motherboard with
> >> a Triton II chipset, a Logitech mouse, a Mitsumi keyboard, a 12-speed
> >> ATAPI CD-ROM and a 16 bit soundcard (probably the SB16PnP, that one was
> >> not quite settled when we last talked), an Acer 33.6k modem, a parallel
> >> port ZIP drive and a Sony 15sf monitor. That's a decent system (it comes
> >> with Win95 preinstalled, more is the pity ;-)
> >>
> >a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
> >games?
>
My mistake. In the post it said they knew very little about
computers.
> My brother has a PhD in chemistry, and if you ever looked into the com-
> bination of chemistry and computers, you'd know there's a _lot_ of CPU
> to burn there.
Granted, but I was under the belief that the original discussion
was about a typical computer user. Was I mistaken?
> His wife is a university-trained dietitian giving courses
> on proper diet plans. This includes so called "diaries", where course
> participants write down everything they eat each week, and she then enters
> it into the computer and has the machine grab all the dietary values
> (dozens of them, including stuff you've never heard of before) for those
> foods from a giant database, summing it all up and in the end coming up
> with recommendations on how to change the diet.
Well, that _shouldn't_ need anyhting more than a 486 with a
large hard drive and memory to be able to do that.
>
> Secondly --- which bit is "excessive"? I.e. where do you think a significant
> amount of money could be saved without giving up an even more significant
> amount of everyday performance?
By buying a second-hand 486. Will run most "everyday" software for
the typical user. Decent word processor, database, etc. And will
cost a lot less than a pentium.
>
> And thirdly --- yes, they like to play a game every now and again. So sue
> them.
Don't we all? They could alwyas buy a console system though :)
> Bernie
>
> --
> ============================================================================
> "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
> ...let's go exploring"
> Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995
--
Dr.Feelgood's Amazing And Marvellous Poetic Panacea
Guaranteed To Cure All Ailments Of The Soul
NO REFUNDS
http://condor.lpl.arizona.edu/~tim/
David Corn
A brand new basic Pentium 200 system is $799 these days. I really
have to wonder why someone wouldn't just start there and add as they
get more money.
Gary Peake
DC> On Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:35:06 -0700, Tim Patterson
DC> <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>How about a secondhand 486 system? Could get one of those
>>for well under $1000 and it will do most things that the
>>average computer user needs, except for running the
>>newest games software of course.
DC> A brand new basic Pentium 200 system is $799 these days. I really
DC> have to wonder why someone wouldn't just start there and add as they
DC> get more money.
Tell me what retail outlet in Houston is offering 'brand new Pentium 200'
machines for $799? The cheapest I have seen them is in the $1200+ range.
--
Gary Peake (Via Thor 2.45 Carme) Coordinator
gpe...@accesscomm.net *Team AMIGA*
1:106/7511.1 In Memory of Rick Lembree
--
"He who feels punctured must once have been a bubble"
David Corn
On 08 Feb 97 00:39:09 -0500, Gary Peake <gpe...@accesscomm.net> wrote:
> DC> A brand new basic Pentium 200 system is $799 these days. I really
> DC> have to wonder why someone wouldn't just start there and add as they
> DC> get more money.
>
>
>Tell me what retail outlet in Houston is offering 'brand new Pentium 200'
>machines for $799? The cheapest I have seen them is in the $1200+ range.
www.chipsmart.com - check your Chronicle on Sunday and you'll see
their advertisement.
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Tim Patterson <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> writes:
>bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
>>
>> >Seems a bit excessive for somebody who isn't going to be
>> >a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
>> >games?
>>
>> Uhm, first of all, who said that the two of them weren't "power users"?
>My mistake. In the post it said they knew very little about
>computers.
True --- could still mean they need the power. If only for Word97's latest
spellchecker.....
>> His wife is a university-trained dietitian giving courses
>> on proper diet plans. This includes so called "diaries", where course
>> participants write down everything they eat each week, and she then enters
>> it into the computer and has the machine grab all the dietary values
>> (dozens of them, including stuff you've never heard of before) for those
>> foods from a giant database, summing it all up and in the end coming up
>> with recommendations on how to change the diet.
>Well, that _shouldn't_ need anyhting more than a 486 with a
>large hard drive and memory to be able to do that.
But that should be a _fast_ harddrive as well, or a lot of RAM. Neither
is usually the case for a used 486. And believe me --- if searching for each
item only takes a second longer, you waste a _lot_ of time entering 20
people's diaries for 7 days each, with 4 or five meals each day, with
5 to 10 different items per meal. About an hour. An hour of her time is
pretty expensive.
>> Secondly --- which bit is "excessive"? I.e. where do you think a significant
>> amount of money could be saved without giving up an even more significant
>> amount of everyday performance?
>By buying a second-hand 486. Will run most "everyday" software for
>the typical user. Decent word processor, database, etc. And will
>cost a lot less than a pentium.
Not necessarily --- see my other posting.
>> And thirdly --- yes, they like to play a game every now and again. So sue
>> them.
>Don't we all? They could alwyas buy a console system though :)
And that would run Settlers? Panzer General? Civilization II? Myst?
Creatures? Gene wars? Railroad Tycoon?
Contrary to popular believe, there are non-3D games that want a pretty
hefty machine ;-)
bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Tim Patterson <t...@raptor.lpl.arizona.edu> writes:
>David Corn wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:33:05 -0700, Tim Patterson
>>
>> >Seems a bit excessive for somebody who isn't going to be
>> >a power user. Guess they need all that power for playiong
>> >games?
>>
>How about a secondhand 486 system?
Well, they are not really stripped for cash, they are not in the habit
of buying second hand stuff (especially not computers, when the family
expert is half the world away), and indeed they like to play a game every
now and again.
>Could get one of those for well under $1000 and it will do most
>things that the average computer user needs, except for running the
>newest games software of course.
This is a two-edged sword, though. When you know what you are doing, buying
a used 486 can be a very good thing to do (and whenever people ask me what
to get for doing their uni work, that is actually what I recommend), but if
you don't, things can become pretty expensive pretty quickly.
Imagine you buy this used 486 with 8M of RAM. Cool. Now you install Win95
and Office97. Ouch! Swap city!
All right, PCs are easy to upgrade, you think, I'll just get another 8M into
this machine --- and then you take it to the shop, they open it up and suddenly
you hear manical laughter: You got 8 SIMMs of 1M each sitting in 8 30 pin
SIMM sockets. Now, you _could_ put larger SIMMs in of course --- but have
you tried buying 4M 30 pin SIMMs lately?
Next, you probably don't want whatever monitor was used with the old 486 ---
or at least nobody who asks me would want to. 95% of all monitors sold are
pure crap, and should be considered dangerous for your health when used
extensively. So you get a new monitor, anyway, which makes staying below that
$1000 mark already a bit hard.
Next, how much harddisk does that 486 come with? Is that enough (in the
case of my brother and his wife, the answer is almost certainly "no")? If
not --- does the BIOS support todays harddisk sizes? Comfortably?
Next, with a used machine, you often end up without documentation. BAD idea!
Never buy a machine which doesn't have documentation for each single part ---
especially if you don't know what you are doing, anyway.
But before you accuse my family of shunning the low end --- before my
brother and his wife moved to the US, they had a nice 486 system I put
together for them in late '94; That system is now used by my brother's
wife's parents; Their old system (my brother's old 286 which they got
when my brother's 486 was purchased; the 286 was later upgraded with
an old 486 motherboard of mine) is now being used by our mother.
In short --- a used 486 wouldn't have been the right machine for those
two people. If it had been, they would have bought a used 486...