Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
HTMhelL
60 views
Skip to first unread message
Ron
Oct 19, 2012, 7:02:47 PM10/19/12
to
In NZ we have a predominant online auction site which has made
'improvements' that has left Netsurf useless for the purpose.
Well, not quite because at the same time they made an option
for browsing by mobile which has both huge advantages, and a
few restrictions.
While now being able to download images on call instead of by
default, you cant get the fullsize images.
But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
How is this possible?
The link for normal TradeMe is
http://www.trademe.co.nz
and the mobile version
http://m.trademe.co.nz
One check showed the normal page to be 82k and the mobile page
to be 2K, so even Firefox operates at a reasonable speed, and
Netsurf is instantaneous.
TIA Ron.M
'improvements' that has left Netsurf useless for the purpose.
Well, not quite because at the same time they made an option
for browsing by mobile which has both huge advantages, and a
few restrictions.
While now being able to download images on call instead of by
default, you cant get the fullsize images.
But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
How is this possible?
The link for normal TradeMe is
http://www.trademe.co.nz
and the mobile version
http://m.trademe.co.nz
One check showed the normal page to be 82k and the mobile page
to be 2K, so even Firefox operates at a reasonable speed, and
Netsurf is instantaneous.
TIA Ron.M
Jess
Oct 20, 2012, 5:01:07 AM10/20/12
to
In message <126353e...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
the same images?
It might be worth complaining to the tech support.
I normally don't take the approach of saying that the site doesn't
work with my minority operating system.
The problem is usually the inappropriate use of javascript, (i.e.
needed to perform essential functions, like following links)
I point this out to them, and the fact that it makes the site
inaccessible at work due to the security policy of javascript being
blocked.
(I don't point out that it is my personal policy of using noscripts,
thought I do have friend who has a similar policy is *imposed* at his
work.)
I also tell them I have a strict policy at home on the computer used
for financial transactions of not allowing javascript
I also point out that it prevents it being used on my mobile, during
my commute. (Obviously not relevant in this case).
So it means the only way I can use their site is via a second computer
at home that is never used for financial transactions.
I also point out (when relevant) that a competitor's site works fine,
and I had to use them in preference.
If the site fails w3 validity, I also point this out.
Sometimes you get a sensible response. I tried to buy a ticket for
something a year or so ago and it failed and had to buy from
elsewhere, I complained and got a sensible response. I successfully
purchased a ticked for something else, several months later.
Sometimes you get the "our site is secure and you can safely enable
javascript" response, to which I question how I can have confidence
that a site that does not degrade correctly and isn't written to
proper HTML standards, would actually have implemented security
correctly.
It might be a shock to the designers that they are missing out on a
market.
Being allowed to surf with a browser with disabled scripting at work
isn't unusual (and is actually very sensible.)
On a script heavy site, it is quite possible that their logging system
requires javascript and they would have no idea how many people they
have missed.
It might even be worth mentioning Netsurf, as the best browser to use
on the Raspberry Pi, since the Pi is now quite well known. (I've
certain heard more interest in it than in Windows 8)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
> at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
> How is this possible?
Have you saved them and compared that the different browsers receive
> But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
> at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
> How is this possible?
the same images?
It might be worth complaining to the tech support.
I normally don't take the approach of saying that the site doesn't
work with my minority operating system.
The problem is usually the inappropriate use of javascript, (i.e.
needed to perform essential functions, like following links)
I point this out to them, and the fact that it makes the site
inaccessible at work due to the security policy of javascript being
blocked.
(I don't point out that it is my personal policy of using noscripts,
thought I do have friend who has a similar policy is *imposed* at his
work.)
I also tell them I have a strict policy at home on the computer used
for financial transactions of not allowing javascript
I also point out that it prevents it being used on my mobile, during
my commute. (Obviously not relevant in this case).
So it means the only way I can use their site is via a second computer
at home that is never used for financial transactions.
I also point out (when relevant) that a competitor's site works fine,
and I had to use them in preference.
If the site fails w3 validity, I also point this out.
Sometimes you get a sensible response. I tried to buy a ticket for
something a year or so ago and it failed and had to buy from
elsewhere, I complained and got a sensible response. I successfully
purchased a ticked for something else, several months later.
Sometimes you get the "our site is secure and you can safely enable
javascript" response, to which I question how I can have confidence
that a site that does not degrade correctly and isn't written to
proper HTML standards, would actually have implemented security
correctly.
It might be a shock to the designers that they are missing out on a
market.
Being allowed to surf with a browser with disabled scripting at work
isn't unusual (and is actually very sensible.)
On a script heavy site, it is quite possible that their logging system
requires javascript and they would have no idea how many people they
have missed.
It might even be worth mentioning Netsurf, as the best browser to use
on the Raspberry Pi, since the Pi is now quite well known. (I've
certain heard more interest in it than in Windows 8)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron
Oct 20, 2012, 4:06:40 PM10/20/12
to
In message <822a8ae...@itworkshop.invalid>
with Firefox?
When increasing the scale of the netsurf saved jpeg there is
double sized jaggies compared to the Firefox display of the
same larger dimensions.
Ron M.
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In message <126353e...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
> Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
> > at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
>
> > How is this possible?
>
> Have you saved them and compared that the different browsers receive
> the same images?
>
I can save the jpeg object from Netsurf, but how can you do this
> In message <126353e...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
> Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > But further to this, Firefox(RISC OS) renders the small image
> > at double the size/resolution to what netsurf/phoenix can.
>
> > How is this possible?
>
> Have you saved them and compared that the different browsers receive
> the same images?
>
with Firefox?
When increasing the scale of the netsurf saved jpeg there is
double sized jaggies compared to the Firefox display of the
same larger dimensions.
Ron M.
Jess
Oct 20, 2012, 5:12:11 PM10/20/12
to
In message <6019c7e...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
However you can do a full page save, from the menu button. (This saves
the first page that was opened if more than one is open, it appears.)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> I can save the jpeg object from Netsurf, but how can you do this
> with Firefox?
The direct function appears not to work.
> I can save the jpeg object from Netsurf, but how can you do this
> with Firefox?
However you can do a full page save, from the menu button. (This saves
the first page that was opened if more than one is open, it appears.)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron
Oct 21, 2012, 7:08:42 PM10/21/12
to
In message <2619cde...@itworkshop.invalid>
I couldn't get Firefox to save anything, but I have now got Oregano2
to connect to http://m.trademe.co.nz by using Opera in the identity
choices. (ssl error otherwise)
Oregano2, like Firefox, downloads a larger image than Netsurf/Phoenix.
6219 bytes verses 3661 bytes.
I can turn scripting off in Oregano2 and still get the larger image,
so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
some time ago.
Ron M.
to connect to http://m.trademe.co.nz by using Opera in the identity
choices. (ssl error otherwise)
Oregano2, like Firefox, downloads a larger image than Netsurf/Phoenix.
6219 bytes verses 3661 bytes.
I can turn scripting off in Oregano2 and still get the larger image,
so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
some time ago.
Ron M.
Jess
Oct 22, 2012, 5:52:39 AM10/22/12
to
In message <dd995be...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
designers carry on oblivious to the problems there incompetence
causes.
I'd still suggest a complaint to the site as the best start.
They have made a change that prevents you (and an amount of others
that they are unlikely to be able to quantify.) from spending money
with them, during a period of global financial troubles.
I have started using Amazon more than ebay in part due to their
rubbish website. (In part due to their system in general, but the poor
website has cost them sales.)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
> I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
The problem with identity spoofing, is that it lets stupid web
> so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
> I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
designers carry on oblivious to the problems there incompetence
causes.
I'd still suggest a complaint to the site as the best start.
They have made a change that prevents you (and an amount of others
that they are unlikely to be able to quantify.) from spending money
with them, during a period of global financial troubles.
I have started using Amazon more than ebay in part due to their
rubbish website. (In part due to their system in general, but the poor
website has cost them sales.)
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron
Oct 22, 2012, 6:44:36 AM10/22/12
to
In message <7d8e96e...@itworkshop.invalid>
I have only sent in a question about the identity affecting the mobile
site so far.
> They have made a change that prevents you (and an amount of others
> that they are unlikely to be able to quantify.) from spending money
> with them, during a period of global financial troubles.
>
> I have started using Amazon more than ebay in part due to their
> rubbish website. (In part due to their system in general, but the poor
> website has cost them sales.)
>
I have noticed that Linux Netsurf is failing the same way as RISC OS
Netsurf, but will probably have to go to the Netsurf forum to find
out who is in the wrong if no-one here knows.
The strange thing is, Phoenix is very stable with the new site,
but it display's everything down the page, including menu's that
should be a dropdown making it slightly tedious to find the area
of interest.
Also, it has to use Netsurf to do a SSL login.
Apart from that it is fully functional.
I dont have Fresco, it may be OK too.
Ron M.
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In message <dd995be...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
> Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
>
> > I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
>
> The problem with identity spoofing, is that it lets stupid web
> designers carry on oblivious to the problems there incompetence
> causes.
>
> I'd still suggest a complaint to the site as the best start.
>
I'd have to know what the cause is first.
> In message <dd995be...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
> Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
>
> > I think there has been a wish for Netsurf to have identity spoofing
>
> The problem with identity spoofing, is that it lets stupid web
> designers carry on oblivious to the problems there incompetence
> causes.
>
> I'd still suggest a complaint to the site as the best start.
>
I have only sent in a question about the identity affecting the mobile
site so far.
> They have made a change that prevents you (and an amount of others
> that they are unlikely to be able to quantify.) from spending money
> with them, during a period of global financial troubles.
>
> I have started using Amazon more than ebay in part due to their
> rubbish website. (In part due to their system in general, but the poor
> website has cost them sales.)
>
Netsurf, but will probably have to go to the Netsurf forum to find
out who is in the wrong if no-one here knows.
The strange thing is, Phoenix is very stable with the new site,
but it display's everything down the page, including menu's that
should be a dropdown making it slightly tedious to find the area
of interest.
Also, it has to use Netsurf to do a SSL login.
Apart from that it is fully functional.
I dont have Fresco, it may be OK too.
Ron M.
Jess
Oct 22, 2012, 7:15:21 AM10/22/12
to
In message <d14f9be...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>
make-over by someone who doesn't understand the concept of degrading
gracefully and why permitting scripts from an unknown 3rd party might
be something someone concerned with security might not want to permit.
(If they had a clue, they would bounce you to the mobile site
automatically, if they somehow decided scripting was essential.)
The mobile site sounds like it knows about certain browsers and
modifies its content accordingly, but presumably doesn't know about
netsurf, so delivers a site optimised for tiny screens.
However it would be good if someone who actually knew and uses the
site could give an opinion.
--
Jess Iyonix
Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> I'd have to know what the cause is first.
> I have only sent in a question about the identity affecting the mobile
> site so far.
From what you have said, it sounds like the main site has been given a
> I'd have to know what the cause is first.
> I have only sent in a question about the identity affecting the mobile
> site so far.
make-over by someone who doesn't understand the concept of degrading
gracefully and why permitting scripts from an unknown 3rd party might
be something someone concerned with security might not want to permit.
(If they had a clue, they would bounce you to the mobile site
automatically, if they somehow decided scripting was essential.)
The mobile site sounds like it knows about certain browsers and
modifies its content accordingly, but presumably doesn't know about
netsurf, so delivers a site optimised for tiny screens.
However it would be good if someone who actually knew and uses the
site could give an opinion.
--
Jess Iyonix
spampling
Oct 22, 2012, 12:40:36 PM10/22/12
to
In article <dd995be...@ron1954.woosh.co.nz>,
agent spoofing add-on.
Set it to a user configured imitation of Netsurf and if the failure occurs
the problem is bad coding in the web site.
Obviously so as firefox would normally work seamlessly and the failure
proves that a simple identity change causes the problem.
Of course if it works OK like that then it isn't browser identity issues.
--
Steve Pampling
Ron <be...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> I can turn scripting off in Oregano2 and still get the larger image,
> so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
A quick (PC based) test for that would be to use firefox on windows with an
> I can turn scripting off in Oregano2 and still get the larger image,
> so it must be more to do with identity rather than javascript.
agent spoofing add-on.
Set it to a user configured imitation of Netsurf and if the failure occurs
the problem is bad coding in the web site.
Obviously so as firefox would normally work seamlessly and the failure
proves that a simple identity change causes the problem.
Of course if it works OK like that then it isn't browser identity issues.
--
Steve Pampling
Ron
Oct 24, 2012, 3:35:07 PM10/24/12
to
In message <52e2bbe78f...@btinternet.com>
I don't use Windows, I'm not sure how close you would be able to
mimic Netsurf anyway.
I have for a long time had Privoxy (filtering proxy) on a Linux box,
but never used it much due to having to turn the machine on to use
it and it sort of defeated the purpose, might as well just use
Linux by then.
Yesterday I ported Privoxy and I can now modify the incoming content
from RISC OS.
It would be better in the hands of someone that knows html, But I
can try removing this or that.
Some of the default filters seem to lighten up the ebay experience.
I have to make an iconbar control for it so it can be killed or
started, and provide a link to the internal webpages that show
the current filters in action.
Ron M.
mimic Netsurf anyway.
I have for a long time had Privoxy (filtering proxy) on a Linux box,
but never used it much due to having to turn the machine on to use
it and it sort of defeated the purpose, might as well just use
Linux by then.
Yesterday I ported Privoxy and I can now modify the incoming content
from RISC OS.
It would be better in the hands of someone that knows html, But I
can try removing this or that.
Some of the default filters seem to lighten up the ebay experience.
I have to make an iconbar control for it so it can be killed or
started, and provide a link to the internal webpages that show
the current filters in action.
Ron M.
0 new messages