The good, the bad and the RO 5.18!

[ChrisF]

I write because I am not content.

I see that RO 5.18 is available for free to update my Iyonix. This is
good news so I go to the website and find 2 versions.

This is not so good.

I will now need to make a decision and to do that I will need
information and the First Rule Of Computing is that the good friend
who is offering me the update - whatever and whoever it may be
- can't know what it is I know and don't know; if you see what I mean.

So I download, save and unzip each and find that one is for the
nervous - which is me. Good news. I can try it and if it screws up I
can remove it.

I open the ReadMe file but it doesn't explicitly say what to do with
the app. Well, it's a !Boot file so I'm guessing that I just merge
it. (I can do that.)

But....... how do I 'de-merge' it if it causes grief? No explanation
can I find.

So, what do I do but open the app ......... and then open the
directory chain. >>>>>> NO DON'T DO IT. <<<<<<<< Because at the bottom
a window opens and a 10 second counter starts!

The update is about to self-install!

AND I'm not told how to stop it!

With 3 secs to go I decide to press 'Escape'.

The world survives, and 007 can get the girl again.

My question is; 'Where's the girl?'

In the mean-time I'll run 5.16 and do what I always do; wait a few
weeks before a consensus appears on c.s.a.

--
BW Chris F. [Supporting British RISC OS computers.]

"I'll not lay straight black pud within a Lancastrian pan!" Hugh de
Nangreave.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I dunno the Iyonix, but could you copy the entire Boot application
somewhere hidden? Then do the update. If there are problems, simply delete
the now 'corrupted' Boot application and replace it with the original.
That assumes a Iyonix can come to a desktop without a boot application.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Ian Hamilton]

In article <5269bd7...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> I dunno the Iyonix, but could you copy the entire Boot application
> somewhere hidden? Then do the update. If there are problems, simply
> delete the now 'corrupted' Boot application and replace it with the
> original. That assumes a Iyonix can come to a desktop without a boot
> application.

I haven't tried the softload but the flash version creates a way to
revert back.

--
Ian Hamilton (Iyonix/ARMini) http://www.hamiltoni.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

[Doug Webb]

In message <8e12bd695...@virgin.net>
ChrisF <c.n...@virgin.net> wrote:


[snip]

> I open the ReadMe file but it doesn't explicitly say what to do with
> the app. Well, it's a !Boot file so I'm guessing that I just merge
> it. (I can do that.)

Yes, usual RISC OS !Boot update process of using the merge facility in
the configuration window and choosing Boot and then Install. Drag the
!Boot file to the resultant window and click on "Agenda" to see where
it will store the files two before you click on Merge.

It does actually put !!SoftLoad in to !Boot.Choices.Boot.Predesk so
you can delete if you wish

Alternatively as it asks each time you restart your machine if you
want to boot into the softload you can leave it there and at worse it
adds a few seconds to each reboot.


Doug
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.17.

[Rob Hemmings (news2)]

In article <8e12bd695...@virgin.net>,
ChrisF <c.n...@virgin.net> wrote:

<Snip>

> I see that RO 5.18 is available for free to update my Iyonix. This is
> good news so I go to the website and find 2 versions.

<Snip>

While we are talking about 5.18 can anyone summarise what the significant
changes are? I have been to the ROOL web page and i have read all the
way through the change log but had trouble knowing what the actual impact
of most of the changes would be. Is it all bug fixes or are there any
significant new features?

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Hemmings Southport

rob...@rgvk.co.uk

[Ste (news)]

In article <b656bf6952...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In message <8e12bd695...@virgin.net>
> ChrisF <c.n...@virgin.net> wrote:
> > I open the ReadMe file but it doesn't explicitly say what to do with
> > the app. Well, it's a !Boot file so I'm guessing that I just merge
> > it. (I can do that.)
>

> It does actually put !!SoftLoad in to !Boot.Choices.Boot.Predesk so
> you can delete if you wish

These are all excellent observations. We do try to make things user-friendly
but you can always do better. I've made a note of these comments and I'll
make sure the ReadMe for the softload has better info in it, as well as a
bit more background info to explain the pros and cons of flash vs softload
on the ROOL site.

Thanks,

Steve

--
Steve Revill @ Home
Note: All opinions expressed herein are my own.

[Martin Wuerthner]

In message <5269cdbd...@rgvk.co.uk>

"Rob Hemmings (news2)" <rob...@rgvk.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <8e12bd695...@virgin.net>,
> ChrisF <c.n...@virgin.net> wrote:

> <Snip>

>> I see that RO 5.18 is available for free to update my Iyonix. This is
>> good news so I go to the website and find 2 versions.

> <Snip>

> While we are talking about 5.18 can anyone summarise what the significant
> changes are? I have been to the ROOL web page and i have read all the
> way through the change log but had trouble knowing what the actual impact
> of most of the changes would be. Is it all bug fixes or are there any
> significant new features?

The most obvious new feature is the improved Filer action window,
i.e., the window you see while a count/copy/delete operation is in
progress. That alone is worth the effort of upgrading. Well done ROOL!

--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Steve Fryatt]

On 1 Mar, ChrisF wrote in message
<8e12bd695...@virgin.net>:

> I write because I am not content.
>
> I see that RO 5.18 is available for free to update my Iyonix. This is good
> news so I go to the website and find 2 versions.
>
> This is not so good.
>
> I will now need to make a decision and to do that I will need information
> and the First Rule Of Computing is that the good friend who is offering me
> the update - whatever and whoever it may be - can't know what it is I
> know and don't know; if you see what I mean.

The two versions are a softload and a ROM flash.

The softload is just that: it sits in your boot sequence and temporarily
replaces your ROM with 5.18 each time you boot if you answer Y to the prompt
(if you answer N or ignore the question, it does nothing). Reboot, and
you're back to whatever version of RISC OS you have in ROM.

The ROM flash replaces your ROM with 5.18, semi-permanently (you get a "go
back" tool generated when you run it, should you need it).

> So I download, save and unzip each and find that one is for the nervous -
> which is me. Good news. I can try it and if it screws up I can remove it.
>
> I open the ReadMe file but it doesn't explicitly say what to do with the
> app. Well, it's a !Boot file so I'm guessing that I just merge it. (I can
> do that.)
>
> But....... how do I 'de-merge' it if it causes grief? No explanation can I
> find.

Look inside the supplied file. It merges in one self-contained application
which is easy to delete.

>
> So, what do I do but open the app ......... and then open the directory
> chain. >>>>>> NO DON'T DO IT. <<<<<<<< Because at the bottom a window
> opens and a 10 second counter starts!
>
> The update is about to self-install!

No, the default option (if you do nothing) is to quit having done nothing
after 10 seconds. Only if you say "yes, I want to softload" does it do
anything -- and again, a reboot will clear it anyway.


--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

[Felicity S.]

Doug Webb wrote:

> Chris F. wrote:

>> I open the ReadMe file but it doesn't explicitly say what to do with
>> the app. Well, it's a !Boot file so I'm guessing that I just merge
>> it. (I can do that.)

> Yes, usual RISC OS !Boot update process of using the merge facility in
> the configuration window and choosing Boot and then Install. Drag the
> !Boot file to the resultant window and click on "Agenda" to see where
> it will store the files two before you click on Merge.

> It does actually put !!SoftLoad in to !Boot.Choices.Boot.Predesk so
> you can delete if you wish

> Alternatively as it asks each time you restart your machine if you
> want to boot into the softload you can leave it there and at worse it
> adds a few seconds to each reboot.

Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
time it's switched on?


Fliss

--
He said: We do research together at the university.
She said: Oh... Wow, a girl scientist!
She said: Yep - come for the breasts, stay for the brains.

[C J Craig]

In message <mpro.m089ip01...@stevefryatt.org.uk>

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 1 Mar, ChrisF wrote in message
> <8e12bd695...@virgin.net>:

>> I write because I am not content.
>>
>> I see that RO 5.18 is available for free to update my Iyonix. This is good
>> news so I go to the website and find 2 versions.
>>
>> This is not so good.
>>
>> I will now need to make a decision and to do that I will need information
>> and the First Rule Of Computing is that the good friend who is offering me
>> the update - whatever and whoever it may be - can't know what it is I
>> know and don't know; if you see what I mean.

> The two versions are a softload and a ROM flash.

> The softload is just that: it sits in your boot sequence and temporarily
> replaces your ROM with 5.18 each time you boot if you answer Y to the prompt
> (if you answer N or ignore the question, it does nothing). Reboot, and
> you're back to whatever version of RISC OS you have in ROM.

[snip]

Yes, although I have flashed before it was a bit short on
instructions!
I opted for full Flash and it seems to work.

""As the ROM now includes the SharedSound mixing software, some of the
module
location numbers have changed. Because the *UNPLUG settings only
remember the
module location numbers you may need to review any unplugged modules
after
the upgrade to ensure the desired ones are unplugged, and that crucial
modules are not left unplugged by mistake.""

What should I be looking at? What should I unplug??

Chris

--
C J Craig

Ch...@skipton.demon.co.uk
Iyonix ARM XScale computer Risc OS 5.18

[Ian Hamilton]

In article <5750086a...@skipton.demon.co.uk>,
C J Craig <Ch...@skipton.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Yes, although I have flashed before it was a bit short on
> instructions!
> I opted for full Flash and it seems to work.

> ""As the ROM now includes the SharedSound mixing software, some of the
> module location numbers have changed. Because the *UNPLUG settings only
> remember the module location numbers you may need to review any
> unplugged modules after the upgrade to ensure the desired ones are
> unplugged, and that crucial modules are not left unplugged by mistake.""

> What should I be looking at? What should I unplug??

1) Ideally you should issue '*Unplug' before upgrading and note anything
listed.

2) I'd '*RmReinit <module>' everything listed at this point.

3) Do the upgrade and then '*Unplug <module>' everything listed if you
want to regain the original unplugged state.

4) Do '*Unplug' to check the list is the same as it was originally.


Steps 2 & 3 might not be needed if your unplugged modules are in the same
positions in the new ROM.

If you don't have anything unplugged you needn't worry.

Ian

[Martin Wuerthner]

In message <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889686@orpheusnews>

"Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
> time it's switched on?

My Iyonix always starts up every time I switch it on, and it has been
like that with any version of RISC OS 5 released so far, so whatever
problems you have are down to hardware, not the OS.

[C J Craig]

In message <526a0c3bd6I...@AAUG.Net>

Thanks.. of course I upgraded before looking at the Unplugged..
I wonder what might have been unplugged and for what reason??
It says nothing is unplugged now. Maybe that is ok?

[Ian Hamilton]

In article <b5b1186a...@skipton.demon.co.uk>,

C J Craig <Ch...@skipton.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip] How to check unplugged modules

> Thanks.. of course I upgraded before looking at the Unplugged..
> I wonder what might have been unplugged and for what reason??
> It says nothing is unplugged now. Maybe that is ok?

Yes, if you don't have anything unplugged there is nothing to worry about.

The problem arises when you do have unplugged modules. After upgrading, a
different module might be unplugged instead of the intended one.

[Martin Wuerthner]

In message <526a1a4531I...@AAUG.Net>

Ian Hamilton <Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:

> In article <b5b1186a...@skipton.demon.co.uk>,
> C J Craig <Ch...@skipton.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> [Snip] How to check unplugged modules

>> Thanks.. of course I upgraded before looking at the Unplugged..
>> I wonder what might have been unplugged and for what reason??
>> It says nothing is unplugged now. Maybe that is ok?

> Yes, if you don't have anything unplugged there is nothing to worry about.

> The problem arises when you do have unplugged modules. After upgrading, a
> different module might be unplugged instead of the intended one.

I wonder what reason there is for having any modules unplugged on an
Iyonix? It has exactly the modules it needs in ROM. Things are
different with RiscPCs some of which require certain modules to be
unplugged (mostly related to add-on IDE cards and CDs).

[Chris Johnson]

In article <526a1a4531I...@AAUG.Net>,

Ian Hamilton <Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:
> The problem arises when you do have unplugged modules. After
> upgrading, a different module might be unplugged instead of the
> intended one.

I wonder why this 'archaic' method is still used, it has caused so
many problems over the years whenever an operating system is
upgraded. I never unplug anything these days.

Perhaps certain modules should be 'dormant' by default, and activated
during boot only if they are actually required for eg networking
support.

The alternative, suitable in many cases, is to RMKill them early in
the boot process.

--
Chris Johnson

[Ste (news)]

In article <26302c6a...@bach.planiverse.com>,

Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> I wonder what reason there is for having any modules unplugged on an
> Iyonix? It has exactly the modules it needs in ROM.

I have "Resolver" unplugged. I've no idea why :)

[T M Smith]

In message <8b4e116a...@bach.planiverse.com>

Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:

> In message <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889686@orpheusnews>
> "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

>> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
>> time it's switched on?

> My Iyonix always starts up every time I switch it on, and it has been
> like that with any version of RISC OS 5 released so far, so whatever
> problems you have are down to hardware, not the OS.

I have Freeway and shareFS unplugged
with what consequences ??

Malcolm Smith

--
T M Smith
Using an Iyonix and RISC OS 5.16 in the North Riding of Yorkshire

[Chris Johnson]

In article <58ea4d6a52...@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com>,

T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I have Freeway and shareFS unplugged
> with what consequences ??

You cannot network using ShareFS?

--
Chris Johnson

[Felicity S.]

Steve Fryatt wrote:

> Chris.F wrote:

>> So, what do I do but open the app ......... and then open the directory
>> chain. >>>>>> NO DON'T DO IT. <<<<<<<< Because at the bottom a window
>> opens and a 10 second counter starts!

>> The update is about to self-install!

> No, the default option (if you do nothing) is to quit having done nothing
> after 10 seconds. Only if you say "yes, I want to softload" does it do
> anything -- and again, a reboot will clear it anyway.

Isn't that like pulling the pin out of a dud hand grenade and giving it to
somebody, expecting them to wait patiently until it fails to explode?


Fliss

--
She said: So then he must have already had the head with him in the
front seat. Huh, that's weird. Why would he keep it there?
He said: I don't know. So he could use a carpool lane.

[Felicity S.]

Martin Wuerthner wrote:

> The most obvious new feature is the improved Filer action window,
> i.e., the window you see while a count/copy/delete operation is in
> progress. That alone is worth the effort of upgrading. Well done ROOL!

When you're using that to search for a file which is buried a bit deep,
does this improved window actually tell you where it found the file?


Fliss

--
She said: I met a man with sense of adventure dressed to kill wherever he went.
He said: Let's make love on a mountain top, under the stars on a big hard rock.
She said: In these shoes? I don't think so. Honey, let's do it right here.

[Felicity S.]

Martin Wuerthner wrote:

> Felicity S. wrote:

>> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
>> time it's switched on?

> My Iyonix always starts up every time I switch it on, and it has been
> like that with any version of RISC OS 5 released so far, so whatever
> problems you have are down to hardware, not the OS.

Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually being
shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.


Fliss

--
She said: I understand that it's a bad idea.
He said: So don't worry about it, and be happy you're a machine.
She said: I'm a machine, I can't be happy.

[Rick Murray]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 17:24:58 GMT, "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet>
wrote:

>> Only if you say "yes, I want to softload" does it do
>> anything -- and again, a reboot will clear it anyway.

I think it pretty much needs an 'invert' option where it'll run the
softload *unless* you tell it otherwise.

> Isn't that like pulling the pin out of a dud hand grenade and
giving it to
> somebody, expecting them to wait patiently until it fails to
explode?

One could ask how do you know it's a dud, unless you've been through
this routine before. And just hope it is a real dud and not a
third-time's-the-charm sticky switch. ;-)


Best wishes,

Rick.

[Rick Murray]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 17:27:29 GMT, "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet>
wrote:

> Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually
being
> shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.

*Every* version of RISC OS starts up saying something like:

RiSC OS 44MB
SA-110 Processor

at the top of the screen. If you don't tend to see much (if
anything?) before the desktop appears, it suggests to me that your
configured MODE is not one your monitor likes so you don't tend to
see anything until you reach the desktop when the MDF profile
overrides the old MODE system.


Best wishes,

Rick.

[T M Smith]

In message <526a5f9389chr...@spamcop.net>

I only 'share' the internet via the broadband router so I probably
don't need ShareFS.
What is freeway for?
Anyone know?

Malcolm

[Rick Murray]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 19:29:21 GMT, T M Smith
<thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> What is freeway for?
> Anyone know?

Driving really fast...



Seriously, it is a resource broker. Shared stuff (ie ShareFS) is
registered with FreeWay which deals with advertising these things to
other systems and marshalling other system's resources into an easy
to work with structure. *FWShow will tell you what's available.


Best wishes,

Rick.

[Dave Symes]

In article <c794cd6a52...@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com>,

T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:

[Snippy]

> I only 'share' the internet via the broadband router so I probably
> don't need ShareFS.
> What is freeway for?
> Anyone know?

> Malcolm

ShareFS is very useful if you have a number of RO machines, or emulated RO
machines on a LAN.

All machines in this house are networked and via ShareFS, communication
between the RO machines is easy.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[Chris Johnson]

In article <almarsoft.9022...@news.orange.fr>,

Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I think it pretty much needs an 'invert' option where it'll run the
> softload *unless* you tell it otherwise.

The !!Softload.Prompt file is uncrunched Basic, so is easily modified
to swap the action of y/n keys.

--
Chris Johnson

[Chris Johnson]

In article <c794cd6a52...@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com>,

T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I only 'share' the internet via the broadband router so I probably
> don't need ShareFS.
> What is freeway for?

It is part of the ShareFS protocol. These modules are
plugged/unplugged when you configure ShareFS on/off. You don't need
to do it manually.

--
Chris Johnson

[Peter Young]

Not here, it doesn't. "File FSShow not found". Is this in another of
the forks? ARMini 5.18 here.

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter \ / zfc Hf \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk

[Paul Sprangers]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889688@orpheusnews>,

Felicity S. <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> When you're using that to search for a file which is buried a bit deep,
> does this improved window actually tell you where it found the file?

It does, but have previous windows ever done otherwise?

Kind regards,
Paul Sprangers

[Chris Hughes]

In message <9a1cdd6a5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2012 Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 19:29:21 GMT, T M Smith
>> <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>>> What is freeway for?
>>> Anyone know?

>> Driving really fast...



>> Seriously, it is a resource broker. Shared stuff (ie ShareFS) is
>> registered with FreeWay which deals with advertising these things to
>> other systems and marshalling other system's resources into an easy
>> to work with structure. *FWShow will tell you what's available.

> Not here, it doesn't. "File FSShow not found". Is this in another of
> the forks? ARMini 5.18 here.

FWShow rather then FSShow which you appear to have typed does work on
the ARMini





--
Chris Hughes

[Ste (news)]

In article <almarsoft.9022...@news.orange.fr>,
Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 17:24:58 GMT, "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet>
> wrote:
>
> >> Only if you say "yes, I want to softload" does it do
> >> anything -- and again, a reboot will clear it anyway.
>
> I think it pretty much needs an 'invert' option where it'll run the
> softload *unless* you tell it otherwise.

The whole point of the softload is that it's a temporary setup - you try it
for a few days maybe a week or two of normal usage. If you are happy with
the new OS, you program it into flash and the softload becomes redundant.

If you're thinking you want to switch the softload to being the default
action, then it's really time for you to be thinking about using the flash
programmer version. That's also reversible anyway...

Thanks,

[Peter Young]

Sorry! Well, it was late at night after a long day.

[Harriet Bazley]

On 3 Mar 2012 as I do recall,

Felicity S. wrote:

> Martin Wuerthner wrote:
>
> > Felicity S. wrote:
>
> >> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
> >> time it's switched on?
>
> > My Iyonix always starts up every time I switch it on, and it has been
> > like that with any version of RISC OS 5 released so far, so whatever
> > problems you have are down to hardware, not the OS.
>
> Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually being
> shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.
>

It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
understand it)

We actually sent our Iyonix back to Castle in the early days because it
regularly started up with a blank screen that did nothing; they could
find no fault but sent it back with a new graphics card, the result of
which was that one time in three it starts up with coloured snow or the
infamous 'pyjamas' instead of the old black screen. No change in
functionality but it looks more interesting....

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

What's the point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?

[Steve Fryatt]

On 4 Mar, "Ste (news)" wrote in message
<526aefd...@revi11.plus.com>:

> The whole point of the softload is that it's a temporary setup - you try
> it for a few days maybe a week or two of normal usage. If you are happy
> with the new OS, you program it into flash and the softload becomes
> redundant.

Although the instructions don't actually tell you how to remove the softload
again...

> If you're thinking you want to switch the softload to being the default
> action, then it's really time for you to be thinking about using the flash
> programmer version.

True. Although for those of us who don't usually see the boot screen due to
our KVM arrangements, the supplied version isn't that much use.

Mine's had the logic reversed for now, and I'll reflash once I've got the
current tight deadlines out of the way and can afford to spend time fixing
any issues.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

[Felicity S.]

Paul Sprangers wrote:

> Felicity S. wrote:

>> Martin Wuerthner wrote:

>> The most obvious new feature is the improved Filer action window,
>> i.e., the window you see while a count/copy/delete operation is in
>> progress. That alone is worth the effort of upgrading. Well done ROOL!

>> When you're using that to search for a file which is buried a bit deep,
>> does this improved window actually tell you where it found the file?

> It does, but have previous windows ever done otherwise?

All the while, since you only get part of the long filename in the Found
window. View is useless with large directories and/or multiple hits.


Fliss

--
He said: We will fly to the tower in the form of eagles, swifter than the wind!
He said: I'm afraid the Shapeshifter's low on power, not even enough for hawks.
He said: Then we must be crows - blackbirds then... It's tits again, isn't it?

[Felicity S.]

Rick Murray wrote:

> Felicity S. wrote:

>> Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually
>> being shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.

> *Every* version of RISC OS starts up saying something like:

> RiSC OS 44MB
> SA-110 Processor

> at the top of the screen. If you don't tend to see much (if
> anything?) before the desktop appears, it suggests to me that your
> configured MODE is not one your monitor likes so you don't tend to
> see anything until you reach the desktop when the MDF profile
> overrides the old MODE system.

No, when it *does* start with something on the screen, it does do
the "RiSC OS 44MB/SA-110 Processor"-type thing first. The problem
is all the other occasions when the screen simply stays blank.


Fliss

--
He said: The prehistoric creature the Pleiosaur lived in what environment?
He said: Fossil collector Mary Anning discovered Pleiosaurs lived in the sea.
He said: The British scientist Mary Anning is best known for collecting what?

[T M Smith]

In message <526ad34847chr...@spamcop.net>

Thanks for the info Chris

[T M Smith]

In message <almarsoft.2498...@news.orange.fr>

Thanks Rick

[Peter Young]

On 4 Mar 2012 "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> Paul Sprangers wrote:

>> Felicity S. wrote:

>>> Martin Wuerthner wrote:

>>> The most obvious new feature is the improved Filer action window,
>>> i.e., the window you see while a count/copy/delete operation is in
>>> progress. That alone is worth the effort of upgrading. Well done ROOL!

>>> When you're using that to search for a file which is buried a bit deep,
>>> does this improved window actually tell you where it found the file?

>> It does, but have previous windows ever done otherwise?

> All the while, since you only get part of the long filename in the Found
> window. View is useless with large directories and/or multiple hits.

Probably not exactly what you want, but !FullNames from
http://www.ajb121.net/riscos/
is very useful for files with very long names. The manual only
mentions RISC OS up to 4, but I had it working on the Iyo and now have
it on the ARMini.

[Rick Murray]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 11:04:51 GMT, Harriet Bazley
<baz...@feathermail.co.uk> wrote:

> supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
> convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I

Mmm, couldn't they have added a big resistor or something to fool to
PSU? [or pick a PSU that wasn't going to be such a PITA?]


Best wishes,

Rick.

[Tony Moore]

On 4 Mar 2012, "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:
> Paul Sprangers wrote:
> > Felicity S. wrote:
> > > Martin Wuerthner wrote:
>
> > > > The most obvious new feature is the improved Filer action
> > > > window, i.e., the window you see while a count/copy/delete
> > > > operation is in progress. That alone is worth the effort of
> > > > upgrading. Well done ROOL!
>
> > > When you're using that to search for a file which is buried a bit
> > > deep, does this improved window actually tell you where it found
> > > the file?
>
> > It does, but have previous windows ever done otherwise?
>
> All the while, since you only get part of the long filename in the
> Found window. View is useless with large directories and/or multiple
> hits.

Swipe http://astubbs.drobe.co.uk/swipe.html can read the whole filepath,
even though only part of it may be visible in the Found window. It also
enables the filepath to be copied to the clipboard, and transferred to a
text editor.

Tony

[Felicity S.]

Harriet Bazley wrote:

> Felicity wrote:
>> Martin Wuerthner wrote:
>>> Felicity S. wrote:

>>>> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up
>>>> every time it's switched on?

>>> My Iyonix always starts up every time I switch it on, and it has been
>>> like that with any version of RISC OS 5 released so far, so whatever
>>> problems you have are down to hardware, not the OS.

>> Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually being
>> shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.

> It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
> supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
> convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
> understand it)

This is going to sound silly, but could we plug something into the
computer to make it draw more power?

> We actually sent our Iyonix back to Castle in the early days because it
> regularly started up with a blank screen that did nothing; they could
> find no fault but sent it back with a new graphics card, the result of
> which was that one time in three it starts up with coloured snow or the
> infamous 'pyjamas' instead of the old black screen. No change in
> functionality but it looks more interesting....

Sometimes the screen flashes a bit, that's quite exciting since it
normally means it will come on eventually.


Fliss

--
He said: You gotta fight fire with fire, spread around a raunchy nickname
for her. What's that girl's name again? He said: Regina Tucker.
He said: Don't worry. We'll think of something.

[Harriet Bazley]

On 4 Mar 2012 as I do recall,
Felicity S. wrote:

> Harriet Bazley wrote:

[snip]

> > We actually sent our Iyonix back to Castle in the early days because it
> > regularly started up with a blank screen that did nothing; they could
> > find no fault but sent it back with a new graphics card, the result of
> > which was that one time in three it starts up with coloured snow or the
> > infamous 'pyjamas' instead of the old black screen. No change in
> > functionality but it looks more interesting....
>
> Sometimes the screen flashes a bit, that's quite exciting since it
> normally means it will come on eventually.
>

In my experience, it's all right once it beeps (reassuring BBC noise).
If it doesn't get to the beep on start-up than it never gets any
further.

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

A statement of fact cannot be insolent

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <8a3a236b5...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Harriet Bazley

<baz...@feathermail.co.uk> wrote:

> It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
> supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
> convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
> understand it)

I've seen this 'reason' advanced many times. Both of the Iyonix machines we
have sometimes give a 'black screen' failure to bootup.

However by experiment I found that simply changing around which USB ports
were used for external devices markedly altered how often this happened.
The same devices were connected.

Similarly, I've heard much the same reason for why I sometimes got my
Iyonix failing to detect that it had an IDE CDROM drive. But cured that by
discovering that if I leave a CD in the drive the drive is detected OK at
bootup.

So I suspect many of the issues put down to 'lousy PSU' may be due to some
other timing or sequencing behaviour during power- and boot-up.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Richard Torrens (News)]

In article <5269d59...@revi11.plus.com>,
Ste (news) <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> These are all excellent observations. We do try to make things
> user-friendly but you can always do better. I've made a note of these
> comments and I'll make sure the ReadMe for the softload has better info
> in it, as well as a bit more background info to explain the pros and
> cons of flash vs softload on the ROOL site.

Is there anywhere a list of improvements?

I don't mean the technobabble list for the programmer. A pain English list
for the avarage user who isn't a programmer.

If no such list exists - it should. If it does exist, it should be easier
to find!

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. News email address is valid - for a limited time only.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

[Chris Evans]

In article <31d6de6a...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes

*FWShow will give "File FWShow not found" if ShareFS is not enabled.

Chris Evans

--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

[Chris Evans]

In article <526b9e1...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf

<URL:mailto:no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8a3a236b5...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Harriet Bazley
> <baz...@feathermail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
> > supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
> > convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
> > understand it)
>
> I've seen this 'reason' advanced many times. Both of the Iyonix machines we
> have sometimes give a 'black screen' failure to bootup.
>
> However by experiment I found that simply changing around which USB ports
> were used for external devices markedly altered how often this happened.
> The same devices were connected.
>
> Similarly, I've heard much the same reason for why I sometimes got my
> Iyonix failing to detect that it had an IDE CDROM drive. But cured that by
> discovering that if I leave a CD in the drive the drive is detected OK at
> bootup.
>
> So I suspect many of the issues put down to 'lousy PSU' may be due to some
> other timing or sequencing behaviour during power- and boot-up.

I'm sure it is not always true when postulated but we're convinced here that
it is true sometimes. We started stocking the high efficiency (80+%) version
of the HEC 350W PSU. They worked fine with Intel PCs and some Iyonix PCs for
us but about half the time they played possum. We returned them to the
importer who confirmed they worked fine for them.
Fortunately they agreed to swap them for the standard Ultra quiet HEC 350W
PSUs

The specs do have a minimum load on 3V3, 5V & 12V but adding Hard Drives
and/or extra PCi cards never was fully succesfull:-(

[Rick Murray]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 12:42:17 +0000 (GMT), "Richard Torrens (News)"
<News+...@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:

> Is there anywhere a list of improvements?

http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/tungsten-changes-5-16-to-5-
18

> I don't mean the technobabble list for the programmer.

Ah. Well... After the scary list are some nice purplish boxes that
talk about...quite a number of OMAP3 changes and stuff. All important
if you will be playing with RISC OS yourself, but...

> A pain English list for the avarage user who isn't a programmer.

...you want a PowerPoint-like list of bullet points as not so many
people care that something called aoftoc crashed, burned, died, was
resurrected and now can run rings around pink-haired-Stephanie... but
it would be nice to know if scroll mice work properly or (remembering
something Jim said) the Iyo audio player didn't try to do everything
at 48kHz.

In other words - a *reason* for "users" to upgrade.


Best wishes,

Rick.

[Chris Johnson]

In article <almarsoft.9048...@news.orange.fr>,

Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Iyo audio player didn't try to do everything
> at 48kHz.

Was that not down to the hardware chip used?

--
Chris Johnson

[Ron Briscoe]

In article <almarsoft.9048...@news.orange.fr>,
Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> In other words - a *reason* for "users" to upgrade.

Because thanks to a lot of hard work by several people, RISC OS 5.18 is
significantly better than 5.16.

Does anyone really need a better reason?

Regards Ron.

[T M Smith]

In message <ant05130...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>

Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <31d6de6a...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
> <URL:mailto:ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <9a1cdd6a5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2012 Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 19:29:21 GMT, T M Smith
>>>> <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> What is freeway for?
>>>>> Anyone know?

[snip]

> *FWShow will give "File FWShow not found" if ShareFS is not enabled.

> Chris Evans

Thanks Chris.
I was holding onto 5.18 until favourable comments came in.
I have now flashed it without any problems other than a slight
hesitation in the email department.
Now I will delete the softload version.

My thanks to the programmers.

Malcolm Smith

[Sprow]

On Mar 5, 12:42 pm, "Richard Torrens (News)" <News

+15...@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> I don't mean the technobabble list for the programmer. A pain

> English list for the average user who isn't a programmer.

It's always difficult to pitch such a list right, because saying
"fixed bug doing A in application B" might be meaningless to one user
(especially if they never use application B) but might be a long
waited for "must have" fix for someone else. They might both be
average users.

Anyway, here's my stab at summarising the changes while filtering out
some of the more administrative or behind the scenes fixes:

* Alarm

Incorrect templates and interactive help messages fixed.
No longer fatally quits when the machine starts but doesn't complete !
Boot.

* Draw

Resizing objects no longer jump when picking the control point up with
the mouse.
System variable Draw$Options is kept in sync with the menu options so
they are saved correctly with the other desktop settings.

* Paint

The tiled background in the sprite filer now appears correctly in EX0
and EX2 modes.
Sprites may now be sorted by size, as well as by name.
Colour numbers in the palette dialogue are now centred properly.
JPEGs can now be dragged in via the RAM transfer protocol from other
applications.
Crashes related to dragging sprites back into the originating sprite
filer are now resolved.

* Filer

Adjust dragging to drive icons no longer hangs (or worse, crashes).
Viewers containing files sized > 2GB are now correctly sorted.
Adjust clicking on "set type" now refreshes after the operation so it
is in sync with the disc.
Small icons (sm!app) with long named icons are now correctly truncated
and therefore appear if the author supplied them in the !Sprites
files.
The "refresh" and "reverse sort" options now have interactive help.

* Filer Action

Now correctly reports the status of files sized > 2GB that it is
working on.
Gains a progress indicator bar.

* Free

Uses the same notation as *EX would at the command prompt.
A corrupt error message resolved.

* Pinboard

Now *AddTinyDir <nothing> behaves as in older versions, adding an
unnamed directory to the iconbar.
Minor speed ups by cacheing the current mode's properties for
operations such as tiling the backdrop.
Hide the "Configure..." menu option when !Boot didn't complete.
Support for Message_ToggleBackdrop added.
Missing dots in files dragged from the save box no longer report the
wrong error.

* Task Manager

Now opens centred on screen.
Occasional crashes dragging sliders around fixed.

* Window Manager

Uses an enhancement to Sprite Extend to select the 'hot spot' in mouse
pointer shapes.
Support added for applications using the vector floating point (VFP)
hardware.

* CDFS

Now scans drives in reverse order to improve reliability of detection.

* File Core

Crash in *Verify fixed for ARMs which can't do unaligned load of data.
Crash in *Defect where the defect contained an object already is
fixed.
Fix to correctly format and mount single zone fixed discs (very small
drives).
Will now wait (prompting the user) when trying to boot from non
existant media.
A number of 26 bit and deprecated ARM instruction sequences removed.

* File Switch

Now correctly handles files sized > 2GB per the Programmer's Reference
Manuals.
Added OS_FSControl 58.
Updated OS_FSControl 28 to report counted totals up to 16 exabytes.
In low memory situations commandline *COPY no longer leaks 32MB of
RMA.
Some possible NULL pointer errors fixed.

* RAMFS

No longer unconditionally clears 16k of RAM when the disc is infact
smaller than 16k.

* SCSIFS

More reliable INQUIRY procedure when talking to non compliant drives.
Speed ups and reliability improvements doing large block transfers,
especially when talking to USB drives.

* USB

Better support for scrollwheel mice with box W and Z axis.
Numerous reliability improvements.

* Kernel

New OS_Heap reason code to request aligned heap blocks, allowing
vastly more efficient memory use for clients needing alignment (eg.
the PCI and USB systems).
New OS_ConvertVariform SWI which allows conversions of longer input
values that the other OS_Convert SWIs and output in a number of other
formats - eg. as MAC addresses and IPv6 network addresses.
New OS_ReadSysInfo to allow programmers to find the address of a
number of kernel variables rather than assuming their address, to
permit in future these to be moved out of zero page. Disabling zero
page will greatly reduce the chance of a machine crashing due to rogue
applications.
Support for ARMv6 and ARMv7 processors implemented.
New OS_ReadUnsigned functionality to read 64 bit numbers from the
user.
Numerous small changes and build improvements.

* Shared C Library

Now supports functions for opening files larger than 2GB (see LFS
v1.5).
Autodetects the CPU supporting some newer ARM instructions and chooses
more optimal library implementations if so.

* BBC Econet

Fix a crash when calling an unknown OS_Word.

* LanManFS

Gets the dates right in the *EX display when talking to a Windows
client from Win2k and later.

* BASIC and BASIC64

Using TEXTLOAD to load an unnumbered file now does an implicit
RENUMBER 10,1 rather than RENUMBER 10,10.
Can use newer ARM instructions for more optimal library
implementations when present.

* Boot Commands

Allows *REPEAT to process command lines up to 1k and no longer crashes
on use of '-sort' switch.

* Debugger

Allows *BREAKCLR to work with addresses over 64MB in a fully 32 bit
memory space.

* Toolbox

Numerous changes and stability improvements, programmer's should
consult the detailed change logs to see if the recent changes benefit
their Toolbox applications.

* Font Manager

Can use newer ARM instructions for more optimal library
implementations when present.
More reliable rendering of complex Unicode fonts.

* Sprite Extend

More strict checking performed on sprite pointers that Sprite Extend
manipulates to improve system robustness.
When output is switched to a one pixel wide or high or both sprite
there is no longer a data abort.
One pixel wide JPEGs are now correctly rendered.
Rendering monochrome JPEGs in 8bpp greyscale modes or at scales below
1/6 now works.
Improvement to OS_SpriteOp 36 to select the 'hot spot' in a mouse
pointer shape correctly.
The JPEG_[File]Info SWI now obeys bit 0 of the flags as documented,
and can return the JPEG type detected now.
JPEGs are more reliably vetted before plotting with more clear error
messages if rejected.
The OS_SpriteOp 17 now follows the algorithm in the Programmer's
Reference Manual.
Numerous small speed and stability improvements.

[Richard Travers]

In article <526bd3e869...@blueyonder.co.uk>,

Well, a definition of 'better' might be nice. Like is it going to be better
in those areas that are important to me?

R.

--

Richard Travers
rich...@uwclub.net

[M Harding]

In article <526c21f08...@uwclub.net>,

Agreed. And for someone successfully using RISC OS 4.02 with 2
SA-VRPCs & 4.03 with a Kinetic RPC, I'd need a vast incentive to
risk b******g-up the 3 linked machines, let alone spending the time
upgrading them. (Most of the time, of course, reading up & checking
that I wouldn't be doing irrevocable harm.) I do rely on RISC OS for
all administrative tasks.

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk

[druck]

On 03/03/2012 19:29, T M Smith wrote:
> In message<526a5f9389chr...@spamcop.net>
> Chris Johnson<chrisjoh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> In article<58ea4d6a52...@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com>,

>> T M Smith<thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>>> I have Freeway and shareFS unplugged
>>> with what consequences ??
>
>> You cannot network using ShareFS?

> I only 'share' the internet via the broadband router so I probably
> don't need ShareFS.
> What is freeway for?

ShareFS and Freeway provide RISC OS to RISC OS file and print sharing on
the local network, nothing to do with the internet.

---druck

[druck]

On 04/03/2012 23:56, Felicity S. wrote:
> This is going to sound silly, but could we plug something into the
> computer to make it draw more power?

Yes, get some additional PCI cards. A second graphic card to drive an
additional monitor (with Geminus), or a PCI TV card so you can watch TV
in a Window (needs a Set top box these days).

---druck

[Alan Dawes]

In article
<b0ccc21d-0036-4550...@x17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 12:42 pm, "Richard Torrens (News)" <News
> +15...@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > I don't mean the technobabble list for the programmer. A pain
> > English list for the average user who isn't a programmer.

> It's always difficult to pitch such a list right, because saying
> "fixed bug doing A in application B" might be meaningless to one user
> (especially if they never use application B) but might be a long
> waited for "must have" fix for someone else. They might both be
> average users.

> Anyway, here's my stab at summarising the changes while filtering out
> some of the more administrative or behind the scenes fixes:

SNIP - an excellent summary of changes

Thank you for taking the time and the trouble to compile that list - and a
big thank you to all the people who have donated their time to achieving
all these improvements.

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

[Bryn Evans]

In a mad moment - Sprow mumbled :

> On Mar 5, 12:42 pm, "Richard Torrens (News)" <News
> +15...@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
>> I don't mean the technobabble list for the programmer. A pain
>> English list for the average user who isn't a programmer.

> It's always difficult to pitch such a list right, because saying
> "fixed bug doing A in application B" might be meaningless to one user
> (especially if they never use application B) but might be a long
> waited for "must have" fix for someone else. They might both be
> average users.

> Anyway, here's my stab at summarising the changes while filtering out
> some of the more administrative or behind the scenes fixes:

[Snip the List]

Thank you for that - an eminently readable and sensible list !

--
|)    [
|)ryn [vans mail to - Bryn...@bryork.freeuk.com

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <526c291a...@mdharding.org.uk>,

M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > Well, a definition of 'better' might be nice. Like is it going to
> > be better in those areas that are important to me?

> Agreed. And for someone successfully using RISC OS 4.02 with 2
> SA-VRPCs & 4.03 with a Kinetic RPC, I'd need a vast incentive to
> risk b******g-up the 3 linked machines, let alone spending the time
> upgrading them. (Most of the time, of course, reading up & checking
> that I wouldn't be doing irrevocable harm.) I do rely on RISC OS for
> all administrative tasks.

I upgraded both my 4.02 machines to 4.39. Found that worthwhile. One is a
soft load. I then bought RO5 at a show - discount price. So much either
didn't work or needed upgrading I removed it and sold it. Of course this
may depend on what apps you most use.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Rick Murray]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 23:38:20 -0800 (PST), Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk>
wrote:

> Anyway, here's my stab at summarising the changes

Thank you. That was perfect.


Best wishes,

Rick.

[Dave Wisnia at home]

In message <jj51tn$ffq$2...@dont-email.me>

I have a PCI TV card - never had a moments bother with startup (or
much else).

--
With very best wishes
Dave Wisnia

[Robin Hounsome]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889694@orpheusnews>,

Felicity S. <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> This is going to sound silly, but could we plug something into the
> computer to make it draw more power?

My Iyonix is a fairly early one. It's got a CD writer, a DVD writer, 2
hard drives and four PCI cards it... and looking for a large lump of wood
to touch, I've not suffered from any PSU problems.

Robin

--
Remote - http://www.hounsome.org.uk
TV display software for the Iyonix

[Ron Briscoe]

In article <526c21f08...@uwclub.net>,
Richard Travers <rich...@uwclub.net> wrote:

> > Because thanks to a lot of hard work by several people, RISC OS 5.18 is
> > significantly better than 5.16.

> > Does anyone really need a better reason?

> Well, a definition of 'better' might be nice. Like is it going to be
> better in those areas that are important to me?

How long is a piece of string? For a person using RISC OS 4.02 the fact that
RISC OS 5.18 is significantly better than 5.16 may well be of little use for
said person.

For an excellent precis of the latest changes see Sprow's posting.

You are the only person who can decide wether RISC OS 5.18 is better in
areas that are important to you. Certainly not I, because you haven't said
what the areas that you deem important to you are.

Regards Ron.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 6 Mar, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
<526c422...@davenoise.co.uk>:

> I upgraded both my 4.02 machines to 4.39. Found that worthwhile. One is a
> soft load. I then bought RO5 at a show - discount price. So much either
> didn't work or needed upgrading I removed it and sold it. Of course this
> may depend on what apps you most use.

IIRC you mean RISC OS 6 there, not RISC OS 5?

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

[Steve Fryatt]

On 4 Mar, "Felicity S." wrote in message
<fIxm7.2485$lk6.889694@orpheusnews>:

> Harriet Bazley wrote:
>
> > It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
> > supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
> > convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
> > understand it)
>
> This is going to sound silly, but could we plug something into the
> computer to make it draw more power?

I Think You'll Find That It's A Little Bit More Complicated Than That.

:-)

[church]

In article <526c4caf91...@blueyonder.co.uk>,

Ron Briscoe <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <526c21f08...@uwclub.net>,
> Richard Travers <rich...@uwclub.net> wrote:
> > > Because thanks to a lot of hard work by several people, RISC OS 5.18 is
> > > significantly better than 5.16.

> > > Does anyone really need a better reason?

> > Well, a definition of 'better' might be nice. Like is it going to
> > be better in those areas that are important to me?

> How long is a piece of string? For a person using RISC OS 4.02 the
> fact that RISC OS 5.18 is significantly better than 5.16 may well
> be of little use for said person.

> For an excellent precis of the latest changes see Sprow's posting.

My previous post seems in retrospect to be somewhat churlish, because
Sprow's posting was indeed superb in its listing.

[John Williams (News)]

In article <mpro.m0h9ty03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> IIRC you mean RISC OS 6 there, not RISC OS 5?

RISC OS 5 is indeed free!

John

--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/

[Steve Fryatt]

On 5 Mar, T M Smith wrote in message
<d564db6b52...@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com>:

> I was holding onto 5.18 until favourable comments came in.

I'd softloaded it, until I'd finished the March issue of The WROCC which was
on a very tight deadline this month. Now that's done...

> I have now flashed it without any problems

...ditto (so far, at least).

[druck]

I would urge caution though, as demonstrated by the Iyonix list, people
are not taking adequate precautions to fully backup their systems before
upgrading, so they can revert to their previous OS should problems occur.

It is inevitable that any change to the OS, even minor ones, will break
some applications people rely on. Even bug fixes to the OS may then
expose formerly hidden bugs in the application, caused by invalid
assumptions that things would continue to work the same way forever.

The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of applications are
no longer maintained, so are very unlikely to be fixed. Unless one of
the few remaining developers also use them, and are sufficiently
motivated to put out a patch for them.

By all means try the new OS versions, but realise that you may not be
able to take all of your existing software with you. So when you find
that critical application will no longer run, make sure you can make the
step back to a previous OS quickly and easily.

---druck

[druck]

On 02/03/2012 13:24, Chris Johnson wrote:
> In article<526a1a4531I...@AAUG.Net>,
> Ian Hamilton<Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:
>> The problem arises when you do have unplugged modules. After
>> upgrading, a different module might be unplugged instead of the
>> intended one.
>
> I wonder why this 'archaic' method is still used, it has caused so
> many problems over the years whenever an operating system is
> upgraded. I never unplug anything these days.

There shouldn't really be any need for it any more.

> Perhaps certain modules should be 'dormant' by default, and activated
> during boot only if they are actually required for eg networking
> support.

That's exactly what happens in all correctly written modules.

There are two, main reasons for unplugging which date back to legacy
hardware, and shouldn't be an issue in the future.

1) 3rd party podules containing a modified copy of a ROM module.

a) An OS upgrade may contain a newer version of that module which has
to be unplugged in order to allow the podule version to still be used.

b) The need for the podule version may be invalided by an OS upgrade,
but contains a higher version number, so it has to be unplugged.

2) To avoid length hardware detection. For example unplugging
CDFSSoftATAPI when there are no IDE devices on the motherboard to avoid
a lengthy timeout.

There is also a third reason to work around a particular problem of
modules used by applications.

3) Unplugging modules in ROM to ensure that applications don't start
using them, and instead softloading newer ones. For example the toolbox
modules which can't be replaced once in use.

> The alternative, suitable in many cases, is to RMKill them early in
> the boot process.

That is the correct solution for (3), rather than unplugging which was
used for a long time, and lead to no end of problems for users upgrading
Select versions.

---druck

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jj78oi$moi$1...@dont-email.me>,

druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> By all means try the new OS versions, but realise that you may not be
> able to take all of your existing software with you. So when you find
> that critical application will no longer run, make sure you can make the
> step back to a previous OS quickly and easily.

Excellent advice.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

[Stuart]

In article <jj78oi$moi$1...@dont-email.me>,
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of applications are
> no longer maintained,

Fortunatly the important ones, to me at least, are.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

[Russell Hafter News]

In article <jj79ls$r9o$1...@dont-email.me>,

druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> 3) Unplugging modules in ROM to ensure that applications
> don't start using them, and instead softloading newer
> ones. For example the toolbox modules which can't be
> replaced once in use.

> > The alternative, suitable in many cases, is to RMKill
> > them early in the boot process.

> That is the correct solution for (3), rather than
> unplugging which was used for a long time, and lead to no
> end of problems for users upgrading Select versions.

AFAIR, this RPC (Strogarm, RO 4.02) was supplied with
ADFS::HardDisc4.$.!Boot.Utils.BootRun which appears to be
the first program run on boot up.

Among other things, this calls a BASIC program called
ADFS::HardDisc4.$.!Boot.Utils.UnplugTBox which does the
unplugging, which can be seen on screen on boot up.

While I cannot follow the program, as it is full of SYS
calls, it does include a procedure called tboxkill, which
may or may not get called.

But this procedure, having killed the modules, then seems
(from the REM statements) to re-initialise all the
ROMmodules.

Confusing!!

Is there a better way?

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

[Brian Bailey]

> > The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of applications
> > are no longer maintained,

> Fortunatly the important ones, to me at least, are.

Unfortunately there are important ones, to me, that aren't maintained.

[Chris Evans]

In article <jj51tn$ffq$2...@dont-email.me>, druck

We tried that and it didn't work!

Chris Evans

--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

[Chris Bell]

Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

> druck wrote:
> > Felicity S. wrote:
> > > This is going to sound silly, but could we plug something into the
> > > computer to make it draw more power?
> >
> > Yes, get some additional PCI cards. A second graphic card to drive
> > an additional monitor (with Geminus), or a PCI TV card so you can
> > watch TV in a Window (needs a Set top box these days).

> We tried that and it didn't work!

Can someone save me the trouble of having to experiment myself...
Which voltage(s) require bigger load(s) in order to fool the power
supply into letting an Iyonix boot reliably? Such knowledge would
allow a temporary load to be devised until booting is complete.

Chris Bell.

[Bryn Evans]

In a mad moment - Steve Fryatt mumbled :

> On 6 Mar, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
> <526c422...@davenoise.co.uk>:

>> I upgraded both my 4.02 machines to 4.39. Found that worthwhile. One is a
>> soft load. I then bought RO5 at a show - discount price. So much either
>> didn't work or needed upgrading I removed it and sold it. Of course this
>> may depend on what apps you most use.

> IIRC you mean RISC OS 6 there, not RISC OS 5?

Veering slightly to one side for a quick question -

I have been trying out the "Work in Progress" version, RO 5.19
which is listed as being for the RPC. So far it seems to do the
softload part then stalls with a blank screen.

This is on my spare RPC RO 4.02 with 98Mb memory.
A re-boot without doing the softload restores normality.

Can anyone please tell me if this does work in any way yet, or am I
being too eager, or else is it just me and have I missed out some
vital step?

[Ron Briscoe]

In article <jj78oi$moi$1...@dont-email.me>,
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> > Because thanks to a lot of hard work by several people, RISC OS 5.18 is
> > significantly better than 5.16.
> >
> > Does anyone really need a better reason?

> I would urge caution though, as demonstrated by the Iyonix list, people
> are not taking adequate precautions to fully backup their systems before
> upgrading, so they can revert to their previous OS should problems occur.

Soft load for testing and flashing for long term use. Although even the
latest version can be reversed.

> It is inevitable that any change to the OS, even minor ones, will break
> some applications people rely on. Even bug fixes to the OS may then
> expose formerly hidden bugs in the application, caused by invalid
> assumptions that things would continue to work the same way forever.

No one would ever know unless the upgraded OS is tried.

> The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of applications are
> no longer maintained, so are very unlikely to be fixed. Unless one of
> the few remaining developers also use them, and are sufficiently
> motivated to put out a patch for them.

I have generally found that developers of my software broken by new versions
of the OS are quite willing to fix said software if possible. DisKnight runs
ok on RISC OS 5.19 btw :-)).

> By all means try the new OS versions, but realise that you may not be
> able to take all of your existing software with you. So when you find
> that critical application will no longer run, make sure you can make the
> step back to a previous OS quickly and easily.

Good advice, however, you could always ask if there was an alternative to
said important software and run that instead.

Or like a RISC OS user I know, run various emulators of older hardware. ( On
RISC OS.) For those indispensable pieces of software that only run on a BBC,
A400 or whatever ;-).

Regards Ron.

[Felicity S.]

Jim Lesurf wrote:

> Harriet Bazley wrote:

>> It's been suggested that this well-known issue is actually a power
>> supply problem due to the computer's not drawing enough power to
>> convince the PC power supply that the CPU actually exists! (as I
>> understand it)

> I've seen this 'reason' advanced many times. Both of the Iyonix machines
> we have sometimes give a 'black screen' failure to bootup.

> However by experiment I found that simply changing around which USB ports
> were used for external devices markedly altered how often this happened.
> The same devices were connected.

> Similarly, I've heard much the same reason for why I sometimes got my
> Iyonix failing to detect that it had an IDE CDROM drive. But cured that by
> discovering that if I leave a CD in the drive the drive is detected OK at
> bootup.

> So I suspect many of the issues put down to 'lousy PSU' may be due to some
> other timing or sequencing behaviour during power- and boot-up.

What was the winning configuration from your USB port experiment?

Our keyboard & mouse are plugged in at the back, while the front has a
coffee-warming USB hub with memory sticks in two of its four slots.


Fliss

--
He said: The interview over, she's emerged having enjoyed the whole experience.
She said: What I liked about it was I had a lot of things to say, and basically
they sat there and just listened - so, it was a genuine conversation.

[druck]

It is confusing because the original UnplugTBox did what it said, but
later ones were changed to kill them instead, with calls to OS_Module,4

> Is there a better way?

Not really, the past being immutable and all.

---druck

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889698@orpheusnews>, Felicity S.
<Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> Jim Lesurf wrote:



> > However by experiment I found that simply changing around which USB
> > ports were used for external devices markedly altered how often this
> > happened. The same devices were connected.

> What was the winning configuration from your USB port experiment?

I have keyboard and mouse going via a PS2 to USB adaptor. Now plugged into
the USB port at the back which is on the right as veiwed from the front of
the Iyonix. (Printer on the left-back, normally not 'on'.) 4-way powered
USB hub plugged into the top USB connector.

My wife's Iyonix now has nothing connected to the back USB ports. Her
mouse, keyboard, and printer are all connected via a 4 way powered hub
connected to the top port at the front.

She has a USB keyboard and mouse. Her machine used to fail to start about 1
time in three. At the time the mouse and keyboard used the ports at the
back. (Printer in the lower front.) Out of curiosity I tried experimenting.
The first discovery was that swapping over keyboard and mouse at the back
meant that the mouse didn't work when the machine did boot up. I tried
other mice and keyboards, and found that it was pot luck which arrangements
using the back ports either had one device or t'other not work, or had both
work. So I concluded that trying to get anything working via the ports at
the back was 'iffy' and switched to the current arrangement.

Her machine does still sometimes fail to boot. But far less often than used
to be the case.

> Our keyboard & mouse are plugged in at the back, while the front has a
> coffee-warming USB hub with memory sticks in two of its four slots.

Have you tried putting the mouse and keyboard also into the hub? And maybe
not having the sticks plugged in at bootup? I can't say if this will make
any difference. But experiments here certainly made differences.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Jess]

In message <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889686@orpheusnews>
"Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> Does installing 5.18 mean that the Iyonix will actually start up every
> time it's switched on?

Mine used to be like that.

I replaced the graphics card and that problem is solved.

I notice a far longer pause before it initializes, so I wonder if the
graphics card holds a reset line down (or similar) until it's ready,
and the old one failed to do that correctly.

--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <almarsoft.2498...@news.orange.fr>
Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Seriously, it is a resource broker. Shared stuff (ie ShareFS) is
> registered with FreeWay which deals with advertising these things to
> other systems and marshalling other system's resources into an easy
> to work with structure. *FWShow will tell you what's available.

Would that mean that it could be updated to deal with Samba or NFS
shares (between RISC OS systems)?

--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889689@orpheusnews>
"Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> wrote:

> Perhaps I should've elaborated - starts up with something actually being
> shown on the screen. This works on average about one time in three.

Mine was sometimes that bad, sometimes it worked fine for weeks.

It hasn't had this problem since the new graphics card.


--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <526aefd...@revi11.plus.com>
"Ste (news)" <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:

>> I think it pretty much needs an 'invert' option where it'll run the
>> softload *unless* you tell it otherwise.

> The whole point of the softload is that it's a temporary setup - you try it
> for a few days maybe a week or two of normal usage. If you are happy with
> the new OS, you program it into flash and the softload becomes redundant.

For an even number release temporary *would* mean a few days/weeks,
but for odd number releases, it would mean until the next one arrives.

This new version will be fresh for 6 - 12 months probably, but then
the odd number softload would become increasingly desirable as a
working system.

I would prefer opt out of softload at start (in fact I edited my
softload to do that for 5.17)

(Currently running 5.16, until I am convinced my machine is stable,
then going to try 5.18 softload.)

--
Jess Iyonix

[Ron]

In message <0e90406...@itworkshop.invalid>

This used one on Ebay looks identical to two that I have bought that boot
properly. It is rebadged as PNY and has a fan. They are Palit cards, mine
never came with fans. They are easily recognizeable by the purple
circuit board also.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PNY-VCGFX52PPB-GeForce-FX-5200-128MB-DDR-PCI-Video-Card-/120830960839?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item1c221624c7

(one line)

Ron M.

[Martin Wuerthner]

In message <a3e83d6...@itworkshop.invalid>

Why would you want that? You would still need the actual client and
server software to deal with the advertised SMB and NFS shares, and
they already come with implementations of the corresponding resource
broker protocols.

--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[cfe...@freeremoveuk.com.invalid]

In message <526cb0c0...@argonet.co.uk>

It would be interesting to find out - which of these program - of which
there are no alternative - are.

--
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

[Peter Young]

Apart from Impression, which I've never used, a lot of people tend to
miss Eureka. I used to use this, but I now exclusively use Fireworkz
and Fireworkz Pro, which are being maintained. BlakHole was useful,
and had been given a new module which made it work on the Iyo, but it
doesn't like the ARMini. In general, I'm fairly satisfied with how
much does run on the ARMini, and I can always use VRPC for the odd
thing that doesn't. Prime among these for me is SiteMatch.

What do others think?

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter \ / zfc Hf \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk

[Dave Symes]

In article <d89bbd6d5...@cferris.freeuk.com>,

Why! Are you going to upgrade 'em? ;-)

Knowing is not much help... Eureka for me is the major problem that will
keep me out of the RO 5 loop.

Easy to say, use Fireworkz32 (Of which I do have) but who's going to do
all the reconstruction work to re-create *all* my business spreadsheets,
then the multiple sheets that are all interlinked.

There's no auto converter to take a set of Eureka sheets and convert 'em
to FWZ.

I did do a couple of re-constructions in FWZ32 some years ago as a see if
it could be done, but it was a *lot* of work, and in the end didn't work
as well as the Eureka sheet.

A far simpler solution would be dump this archiac OS, transfer everything
to MS-windows... Eureka sheets will translate/convert to Excel with only
minor adjustments required.

As it is, I'm sticking with RO 6.20 and Eureka.
Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[David Pitt]

In message <0135c56d5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 9 Mar 2012 cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:

>> In message <526cb0c0...@argonet.co.uk>
>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>>>
>>>>> The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of
>>>>> applications are no longer maintained,

>> It would be interesting to find out - which of these program - of which
>> there are no alternative - are.

> Apart from Impression, which I've never used, a lot of people tend to
> miss Eureka. I used to use this, but I now exclusively use Fireworkz
> and Fireworkz Pro, which are being maintained. BlakHole was useful,
> and had been given a new module which made it work on the Iyo, but it
> doesn't like the ARMini. In general, I'm fairly satisfied with how
> much does run on the ARMini, and I can always use VRPC for the odd
> thing that doesn't. Prime among these for me is SiteMatch.

SiteMatch 1.13 works perfectly on my ARMini, with Alignment Exceptions
on, in association with the ARMv7 !FTPc 1.48.

The later SiteMatch 2.39c looks to be OK as very briefly tried here. I
never upgraded because I has slightly ammended 1.13 myself and it
wasn't broken.

--
David Pitt

[Peter Young]

Thanks for that. I've updated SiteMatch to 2.39c and I have the same
FTPc 1.48. I'll have a play with them when I next need to do any
updating.

[Brian Bailey]

> >
> > > > The big problem for RISC OS users now, is that 99.9% of
> > > > applications are no longer maintained,
> >
> > > Fortunatly the important ones, to me at least, are.
> >
> > Unfortunately there are important ones, to me, that aren't
> > maintained.

> It would be interesting to find out - which of these program - of which
> there are no alternative - are.

Well, TableMate for one. Absolutely indispensable to me. Also, GraphMate
and DiagramIt.

[Doug Webb]

In message <526dca2...@triffid.co.uk>
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:


[snip]

>

> I did do a couple of re-constructions in FWZ32 some years ago as a see if
> it could be done, but it was a *lot* of work, and in the end didn't work
> as well as the Eureka sheet.

Well FireWorkzPro is being developed and you now even get the Windows
version included as well.

> A far simpler solution would be dump this archiac OS, transfer everything
> to MS-windows... Eureka sheets will translate/convert to Excel with only
> minor adjustments required.

Well the latest FireWorkzPro has better Excel import facilities and
though it does have differences between it and Eureka if you are going
to go to the trouble of moving to the darkside then you still have to
do the same/simialr amount of export/import and changes etc.

> As it is, I'm sticking with RO 6.20 and Eureka.
> Dave

You could always ask for the features that you think would help now it
is being developed?

Doug
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.19.

[cfe...@freeremoveuk.com.invalid]

In message <0135c56d5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 9 Mar 2012 cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
>
> > In message <526cb0c0...@argonet.co.uk>
> > Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>

[snip]

> BlakHole was useful, and had been given a new module which made it
> work on the Iyo, but it doesn't like the ARMini.

Some Web addresses would be handy :-)

> In general, I'm fairly satisfied with how much does run on the
> ARMini, and I can always use VRPC for the odd thing that doesn't.
> Prime among these for me is SiteMatch.
>

Are you referring to '!SiteMatch' by Dave Edwards & Richard Porter -

ver 2.40e (11 Jan 2011)?

[Peter Young]

On 9 Mar 2012 cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:

> In message <0135c56d5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 9 Mar 2012 cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
>>
>>> In message <526cb0c0...@argonet.co.uk>
>>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
> [snip]

>> BlakHole was useful, and had been given a new module which made it
>> work on the Iyo, but it doesn't like the ARMini.

> Some Web addresses would be handy :-)

I can't remember where the module came from, but I have it in my
backup, and as far as I know it can be distributed. In fact, I think
someone sent it to me.

>> In general, I'm fairly satisfied with how much does run on the
>> ARMini, and I can always use VRPC for the odd thing that doesn't.
>> Prime among these for me is SiteMatch.
>>

> Are you referring to '!SiteMatch' by Dave Edwards & Richard Porter -

> ver 2.40e (11 Jan 2011)?

Yes, and I've got that now; see an earlier post.

[Peter Young]

On 9 Mar 2012 Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> In message <526dca2...@triffid.co.uk>
> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:


> [snip]

>>

>> I did do a couple of re-constructions in FWZ32 some years ago as a see if
>> it could be done, but it was a *lot* of work, and in the end didn't work
>> as well as the Eureka sheet.

> Well FireWorkzPro is being developed and you now even get the Windows
> version included as well.

>> A far simpler solution would be dump this archiac OS, transfer everything
>> to MS-windows... Eureka sheets will translate/convert to Excel with only
>> minor adjustments required.

> Well the latest FireWorkzPro has better Excel import facilities and
> though it does have differences between it and Eureka if you are going
> to go to the trouble of moving to the darkside then you still have to
> do the same/simialr amount of export/import and changes etc.

I am about to eat the words which I didn't get round to typing :-)

My memory is that trying to export Eureka files as Excel fouled up the
date fields, and I would imagine these fields are rather essential to
people such as the excellent Dave Triffid. However, I've just gone to
VRPC and exported an Eureka file as Excel 4, dragged it over to this
ARMini and loaded it into the latest Fireworkz Pro, and, behold, the
date fields have emerged intact!

Just one tiny problem: Fields such as "9 March" are fine, but "1997"
comes out as "1,997". I imagine that could be easily fixed.

So, Dave, it could be done, given the necessary will! Many thanks to
those who have updated Fireworkz to have this functionality.

[Dave Symes]

In article <4589d96d52...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In message <526dca2...@triffid.co.uk>
> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > I did do a couple of re-constructions in FWZ32 some years ago as a see
> > if it could be done, but it was a *lot* of work, and in the end didn't
> > work as well as the Eureka sheet.

> Well FireWorkzPro is being developed and you now even get the Windows
> version included as well.

> > A far simpler solution would be dump this archiac OS, transfer
> > everything to MS-windows... Eureka sheets will translate/convert to
> > Excel with only minor adjustments required.

> Well the latest FireWorkzPro has better Excel import facilities and
> though it does have differences between it and Eureka if you are going
> to go to the trouble of moving to the darkside then you still have to
> do the same/simialr amount of export/import and changes etc.

If I take a Eureka file and Save it in Excel format, it will directly load
into Excel requiring minimal re-working.

On the other hand there is no way (Aside I assume from CSV) to get stuff
out of Eureka into FWz whatever version.

> > As it is, I'm sticking with RO 6.20 and Eureka.
> > Dave

> You could always ask for the features that you think would help now it
> is being developed?

> Doug

But Eureka ceased development in late 1996 and from what I'm led to
understand never will, or could be developed again.

If your last para was about FWzpro, there's no point.
Eureka was the third time I'd re-constructed my business stuff, I don't
have the time or the energy left to do it all again.

D.

--

Dave Triffid