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The TechWriter miracle
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Alexander Ausserstorfer
Aug 1, 2012, 10:35:55 AM8/1/12
to
Hi all,
it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
Latin.
The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
by e-mail.
Any ideas?
Alex
--
RISC OS since 1994
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/
it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
Latin.
The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
by e-mail.
Any ideas?
Alex
--
RISC OS since 1994
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/
Peter Young
Aug 1, 2012, 10:04:21 AM8/1/12
to
On 1 Aug 2012 Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
> Latin.
> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
> by e-mail.
> Any ideas?
You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk
wrote:
> Hi all,
> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
> Latin.
> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
> by e-mail.
> Any ideas?
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk
Peter Young
Aug 1, 2012, 10:49:51 AM8/1/12
to
On 1 Aug 2012 Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2012 Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
>> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
>> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
>> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
>> Latin.
>> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
>> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
>> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
>> by e-mail.
>> Any ideas?
> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
> On 1 Aug 2012 Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
>> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
>> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
>> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
>> Latin.
>> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
>> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
>> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
>> by e-mail.
>> Any ideas?
> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
Russell Hafter News
Aug 1, 2012, 12:52:29 PM8/1/12
to
In article <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
here.
The menu data reads "Insert Lorem ipsum,390,}68 �CS-O", I
assume that �CS-O is menuese for Shift-control-O.
In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
Shift-control-letterkey does not.
I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
wrong?
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > menu entry!
> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> shift-control-P.
I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > menu entry!
> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> shift-control-P.
Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
here.
The menu data reads "Insert Lorem ipsum,390,}68 �CS-O", I
assume that �CS-O is menuese for Shift-control-O.
In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
Shift-control-letterkey does not.
I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
wrong?
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Alan Calder
Aug 1, 2012, 12:55:59 PM8/1/12
to
In article <52b88272...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
> Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > > menu entry!
> > Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> > shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> here.
Works here with version 9.01. What version have you got?
> In article <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
> Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > > menu entry!
> > Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> > shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> here.
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Peter Young
Aug 1, 2012, 2:08:09 PM8/1/12
to
Russell Hafter News
Aug 1, 2012, 3:16:06 PM8/1/12
to
In article <52b882c43b...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
8.82. But the menu listings show the Shift-control- options,
so they should work. There are some Shift-control- options
in EW 4.00...
so they should work. There are some Shift-control- options
in EW 4.00...
Martin Wuerthner
Aug 1, 2012, 9:08:08 PM8/1/12
to
In message <52b88272...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
> Shift-control-letterkey does not.
> I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
> its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
> that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
> wrong?
Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a module it
requires? Then you should not be surprised that certain things are not
working as expected. I am not aware of any negative user-observable
effects of the UKey module, so I cannot understand why you would want
to prevent it from being loaded.
And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of UKey is to
provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
> In article <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
> Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
>>> menu entry!
>> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
>> shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> here. [...]
> Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
>>> menu entry!
>> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
>> shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
> Shift-control-letterkey does not.
> I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
> its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
> that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
> wrong?
requires? Then you should not be surprised that certain things are not
working as expected. I am not aware of any negative user-observable
effects of the UKey module, so I cannot understand why you would want
to prevent it from being loaded.
And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of UKey is to
provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Hafter News
Aug 2, 2012, 4:59:34 AM8/2/12
to
In article <21d3afb8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99% certain
that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
want to do.
Looking back at my older versions of EW, it seems to have
been introduced in EW 6.05+, from 1999.
I do remember taking up the matter of some strange behaviour
of the numeric keypad with Mike Glover, who told me that it
was the UKey module and also told me how to stop it
happening - ie not loading it in the first place.
> And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of
> UKey is to provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
Fair enough, I was simply curious. Not having access to it
is no hardship! I think that the only Ctrl+Shift+keypress I
actually ever use is with F12 to shut a machine down.
that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
want to do.
Looking back at my older versions of EW, it seems to have
been introduced in EW 6.05+, from 1999.
I do remember taking up the matter of some strange behaviour
of the numeric keypad with Mike Glover, who told me that it
was the UKey module and also told me how to stop it
happening - ie not loading it in the first place.
> And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of
> UKey is to provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
is no hardship! I think that the only Ctrl+Shift+keypress I
actually ever use is with F12 to shut a machine down.
Alexander Ausserstorfer
Aug 2, 2012, 6:48:47 AM8/2/12
to
In message <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
Best wishes from a today sunshining day in Chiemgau,
Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>
>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>
>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
Best wishes from a today sunshining day in Chiemgau,
Martin Wuerthner
Aug 2, 2012, 7:44:12 AM8/2/12
to
In message <52b8dafb...@walkingingermany.invalid>
numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main
keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter
feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter
resource files).
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <21d3afb8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
> Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>> In message <52b88272...@walkingingermany.invalid>
>> Russell Hafter News
wrote:
> In article <21d3afb8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
> Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>> In message <52b88272...@walkingingermany.invalid>
>> Russell Hafter News
>>> I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some
>>> of its effects very annoying), but I would not have
>>> thought that Shift-control-is governed by that module,
>>> or am I wrong?
>> Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a
>> module it requires? Then you should not be surprised that
>> certain things are not working as expected. I am not
>> aware of any negative user-observable effects of the UKey
>> module, so I cannot understand why you would want to
>> prevent it from being loaded.
> I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99% certain
> that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
> numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
> want to do.
In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the behaviour of the
>>> of its effects very annoying), but I would not have
>>> thought that Shift-control-is governed by that module,
>>> or am I wrong?
>> Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a
>> module it requires? Then you should not be surprised that
>> certain things are not working as expected. I am not
>> aware of any negative user-observable effects of the UKey
>> module, so I cannot understand why you would want to
>> prevent it from being loaded.
> I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99% certain
> that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
> numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
> want to do.
numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main
keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter
feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter
resource files).
Martin Wuerthner
Aug 2, 2012, 7:48:32 AM8/2/12
to
In message <e8fbe4b...@bavariasound.chiemgau-net.de>
Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
wrote:
> In message <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>
>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
It is very useful to quickly fill a column or page with text to test a
page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old
printers' tradition.
See "853Guide", page 4.
Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
wrote:
> In message <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>
>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old
printers' tradition.
See "853Guide", page 4.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 2, 2012, 8:20:39 AM8/2/12
to
In article <f80eeab8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
just not loading the module in the first place.
It is annoying enough to have to edit the Resources file
date format options after each upgrade. Commenting out the
UKey loading instruction is far simpler.
As I said, I was simply curious about the Shift-Ctrl
options. They (and most keyboard shortcuts) are not
something that I actually use.
But having the numeric keypad keys do something other than
what they say on the key would be a major annoyance.
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> > I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99%
> > certain that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour
> > of the numeric keypad, which is definitely not
> > something I would want to do.
> In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the
> behaviour of the numeric keypad, but it allows
> applications to distinguish between main keyboard and
> keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but
> an EasiWriter feature (which you could switch off by
> modifying some EasiWriter resource files).
But modifying resources files is a lot more complex than
> > I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99%
> > certain that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour
> > of the numeric keypad, which is definitely not
> > something I would want to do.
> In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the
> behaviour of the numeric keypad, but it allows
> applications to distinguish between main keyboard and
> keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but
> an EasiWriter feature (which you could switch off by
> modifying some EasiWriter resource files).
just not loading the module in the first place.
It is annoying enough to have to edit the Resources file
date format options after each upgrade. Commenting out the
UKey loading instruction is far simpler.
As I said, I was simply curious about the Shift-Ctrl
options. They (and most keyboard shortcuts) are not
something that I actually use.
But having the numeric keypad keys do something other than
what they say on the key would be a major annoyance.
Peter Young
Aug 2, 2012, 5:33:33 PM8/2/12
to
On 2 Aug 2012 Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <e8fbe4b...@bavariasound.chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> In message <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>>
>>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
>> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
>> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
> It is very useful to quickly fill a column or page with text to test a
> page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old
> printers' tradition.
> See "853Guide", page 4.
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_Ipsum which show examples
> In message <e8fbe4b...@bavariasound.chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> In message <e53777b85...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>>
>>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
>> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
>> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
> It is very useful to quickly fill a column or page with text to test a
> page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old
> printers' tradition.
> See "853Guide", page 4.
of how it could be used.
Steve Fryatt
Aug 3, 2012, 3:19:51 PM8/3/12
to
On 2 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<52b8ed65...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <f80eeab8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner
> <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>
> > In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the behaviour of the
> > numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main
> > keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> > characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter
> > feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter
> > resource files).
>
> But modifying resources files is a lot more complex than just not loading
> the module in the first place.
UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a lot of
applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier than
it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour in other
places too.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
<52b8ed65...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <f80eeab8...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner
> <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>
> > In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the behaviour of the
> > numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main
> > keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> > characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter
> > feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter
> > resource files).
>
> But modifying resources files is a lot more complex than just not loading
> the module in the first place.
applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier than
it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour in other
places too.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
Russell Hafter News
Aug 3, 2012, 5:29:26 PM8/3/12
to
In article
<mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never
heard of it anywhere else.
2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no
idea what you refer to here.
3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW
cause problems elsewhere?
For me, the problems are if pressing '1' does not produce 1
and pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
next line.
<mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never
heard of it anywhere else.
2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no
idea what you refer to here.
3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW
cause problems elsewhere?
For me, the problems are if pressing '1' does not produce 1
and pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
next line.
John Williams (News)
Aug 3, 2012, 5:36:54 PM8/3/12
to
In article <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
enter some data!
When did you last use a web form?
The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is irrelevant.
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the next line.
I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter] should do just that -
enter some data!
When did you last use a web form?
The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is irrelevant.
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Steve Fryatt
Aug 3, 2012, 5:56:21 PM8/3/12
to
On 3 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a lot of
> > applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier
> > than it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour
> > in other places too.
>
> Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
>
> 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never heard of it
> anywhere else.
It's also supplied with and used by other applications. DeepKeys is an
(incompatible) alternative, which a different set of apps use.
> 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no idea what you
> refer to here.
The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are often ambiguous.
UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of codes and make it possible to do stuff
like tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW cause problems
> elsewhere?
Because unless you edit every UKey client's !Run file, it will probably be
loaded anyway. And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up by
not getting the key codes that they expect.
You're effectively meddling with a low-level module, which is never a good
idea.
<52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a lot of
> > applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier
> > than it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour
> > in other places too.
>
> Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
>
> 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never heard of it
> anywhere else.
(incompatible) alternative, which a different set of apps use.
> 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no idea what you
> refer to here.
UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of codes and make it possible to do stuff
like tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW cause problems
> elsewhere?
loaded anyway. And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up by
not getting the key codes that they expect.
You're effectively meddling with a low-level module, which is never a good
idea.
Steve Fryatt
Aug 3, 2012, 5:57:49 PM8/3/12
to
On 3 Aug, Steve Fryatt wrote in message
<mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>:
> DeepKeys is an (incompatible) alternative, which a different set of apps
> use.
I should probably add that the two can (and often do) safely co-exist on the
same machine.
<mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>:
> DeepKeys is an (incompatible) alternative, which a different set of apps
> use.
same machine.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 4, 2012, 4:08:32 AM8/4/12
to
In article
<mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
I am not aware of any here.
> > 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have
> > no idea what you refer to here.
> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
application that I have that requires it.
Personally, I prefer to use the mouse for actions rather
than keyboard short cuts, and I really only know and use the
most obvious ones, plus the ATL-; and ALT-[ etc for accented
characters
> > 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of
> > EW cause problems elsewhere?
> Because unless you edit every UKey client's !Run file, it
> will probably be loaded anyway.
It is only EW that could load it, and it does not
> And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up
> by not getting the key codes that they expect.
Again, which other apps?
> You're effectively meddling with a low-level module,
> which is never a good idea.
But it is not part of the machine OS. EW ran without it for
years, and continues to do so.
It is supplied with EW and remains within the EW folder.
<mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 3 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
> <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used
> > > by a lot of applications because it makes
> > > understanding keyboard input much easier than it is
> > > by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky
> > > behaviour in other places too.
> > Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
> > 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have
> > never heard of it anywhere else.
> It's also supplied with and used by other applications.
> DeepKeys is an (incompatible) alternative, which a
> different set of apps use.
Which applications?
> On 3 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
> <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m871p002...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used
> > > by a lot of applications because it makes
> > > understanding keyboard input much easier than it is
> > > by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky
> > > behaviour in other places too.
> > Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
> > 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have
> > never heard of it anywhere else.
> It's also supplied with and used by other applications.
> DeepKeys is an (incompatible) alternative, which a
> different set of apps use.
I am not aware of any here.
> > 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have
> > no idea what you refer to here.
> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
application that I have that requires it.
Personally, I prefer to use the mouse for actions rather
than keyboard short cuts, and I really only know and use the
most obvious ones, plus the ATL-; and ALT-[ etc for accented
characters
> > 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of
> > EW cause problems elsewhere?
> Because unless you edit every UKey client's !Run file, it
> will probably be loaded anyway.
> And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up
> by not getting the key codes that they expect.
> You're effectively meddling with a low-level module,
> which is never a good idea.
years, and continues to do so.
It is supplied with EW and remains within the EW folder.
Peter Young
Aug 4, 2012, 5:22:38 AM8/4/12
to
On 4 Aug 2012 Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article
> <mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
>> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
>> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
>> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
> application that I have that requires it.
StrongED uses control-C for a local copy, and shift-control-C for
copying to the global clipboard.
wrote:
> In article
> <mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
>> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
>> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
>> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
> application that I have that requires it.
copying to the global clipboard.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 4, 2012, 5:30:48 AM8/4/12
to
In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>,
keypad.
I find it easier to find than the key marked 'Return'.
> When did you last use a web form?
Under RISC OS? I cannot remember. Years probably.
> The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is
> irrelevant.
Why? They do the same thing.
John Williams (News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > next line.
> I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> should do just that - enter some data!
I am referring to the key marked 'Enter' on the numeric
> In article <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > next line.
> I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> should do just that - enter some data!
keypad.
I find it easier to find than the key marked 'Return'.
> When did you last use a web form?
> The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is
> irrelevant.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 4, 2012, 7:03:58 AM8/4/12
to
In article <d0c4e4b95...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 4 Aug 2012 Russell Hafter News
> <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp
> >> are often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the
> >> range of codes and make it possible to do stuff like
> >> tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> > I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> > Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of
> > any application that I have that requires it.
> StrongED uses control-C for a local copy, and
> shift-control-C for copying to the global clipboard.
I do not use StongED (or Zap)
> On 4 Aug 2012 Russell Hafter News
> <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m878xu06...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp
> >> are often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the
> >> range of codes and make it possible to do stuff like
> >> tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> > I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> > Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of
> > any application that I have that requires it.
> StrongED uses control-C for a local copy, and
> shift-control-C for copying to the global clipboard.
Chris Johnson
Aug 4, 2012, 9:23:12 AM8/4/12
to
In article <52b9e584...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
page' while the Return key is the normal 'new para'.
--
Chris Johnson
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> Why? They do the same thing.
Depends on the application - eg OPro uses the Enter key for 'new
> Why? They do the same thing.
page' while the Return key is the normal 'new para'.
--
Chris Johnson
Russell Hafter News
Aug 4, 2012, 10:46:08 AM8/4/12
to
In article <52b9facb2fchr...@spamcop.net>, Chris
Like a Macintosh. It seemed to be standard on all Macs when
I was using them in the 1990s, presumably part of the design
of the system.
As both UKey and OPro are written by David Pilling it is
hardly surprising that he would include UKey and then,
perhaps, to use it to create this effect.
But as I have no use for OPro, it makes no difference to me,
and it is my machines I am talking about.
IIRC, this was one of the features that EW introduced with
v6.05+, when it started to use UKey. Again, IIRc, it used to
drive me mad, since RISC OS does not (did not) behave like a
Mac.
IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
keyboard without making the effects easily user
configurable.
I was using them in the 1990s, presumably part of the design
of the system.
As both UKey and OPro are written by David Pilling it is
hardly surprising that he would include UKey and then,
perhaps, to use it to create this effect.
But as I have no use for OPro, it makes no difference to me,
and it is my machines I am talking about.
IIRC, this was one of the features that EW introduced with
v6.05+, when it started to use UKey. Again, IIRc, it used to
drive me mad, since RISC OS does not (did not) behave like a
Mac.
IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
keyboard without making the effects easily user
configurable.
M Harding
Aug 4, 2012, 2:15:28 PM8/4/12
to
have exactly the same operation - they move down a line. The same is
true of OvPro for Windows. Might there be an (uninstalled) Applet
which differentiates these 2 keys?
To be honest, I never think of using the Enter key.
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
Dave Symes
Aug 4, 2012, 2:58:32 PM8/4/12
to
In article <52ba158d...@mdharding.org.uk>,
Works here as Chris noted on RISC OS OvPro.
Can't try Win OvPro ATM. as that machine is not running.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Can't try Win OvPro ATM. as that machine is not running.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
M Harding
Aug 5, 2012, 11:01:14 AM8/5/12
to
In article <52ba197...@triffid.co.uk>,
(page 22)
"Force page break:
". . in a default master frame . . by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing
Enter on the keypad or choosing Misc>Insert>New page."
Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the next
line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
Curiouser still! I've just tried it on my old Kinetic RPC with the
same software (OvPro 2.77) but with RISC OS 4.03 and indeed pressing
Enter makes it create a page break.
My Windows version of OvPro acts like the SA-VRPC in that Return &
Enter both produce a carriage return.
I don't suffer from insomnia, otherwise I'd study the manual more.
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52ba158d...@mdharding.org.uk>,
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52b9facb2fchr...@spamcop.net>,
> > Chris Johnson <chrisjoh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > In article <52b9e584...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > > Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Why? They do the same thing.
> > > Depends on the application - eg OPro uses the Enter key for 'new
> > > page' while the Return key is the normal 'new para'.
> > That's news to me. Using OvPro v.2.77 the Enter key and the
> > Return key have exactly the same operation - they move down a
> > line. The same is true of OvPro for Windows. Might there be an
> > (uninstalled) Applet which differentiates these 2 keys?
> In article <52ba158d...@mdharding.org.uk>,
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52b9facb2fchr...@spamcop.net>,
> > Chris Johnson <chrisjoh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > In article <52b9e584...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > > Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Why? They do the same thing.
> > > Depends on the application - eg OPro uses the Enter key for 'new
> > > page' while the Return key is the normal 'new para'.
> > That's news to me. Using OvPro v.2.77 the Enter key and the
> > Return key have exactly the same operation - they move down a
> > line. The same is true of OvPro for Windows. Might there be an
> > (uninstalled) Applet which differentiates these 2 keys?
> Works here as Chris noted on RISC OS OvPro.
Curious! I've just looked it up in the manual and yes, it does say
(page 22)
"Force page break:
". . in a default master frame . . by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing
Enter on the keypad or choosing Misc>Insert>New page."
Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the next
line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
Curiouser still! I've just tried it on my old Kinetic RPC with the
same software (OvPro 2.77) but with RISC OS 4.03 and indeed pressing
Enter makes it create a page break.
My Windows version of OvPro acts like the SA-VRPC in that Return &
Enter both produce a carriage return.
I don't suffer from insomnia, otherwise I'd study the manual more.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Aug 5, 2012, 1:15:02 PM8/5/12
to
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>Curious! I've just looked it up in the manual and yes, it does say
>(page 22)
>"Force page break:
>". . in a default master frame . . by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing
>Enter on the keypad or choosing Misc>Insert>New page."
>
>Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the next
>line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
Does this depend on whether NumLock is on?
>Curious! I've just looked it up in the manual and yes, it does say
>(page 22)
>"Force page break:
>". . in a default master frame . . by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing
>Enter on the keypad or choosing Misc>Insert>New page."
>
>Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the next
>line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
M Harding
Aug 5, 2012, 3:09:03 PM8/5/12
to
In article <mpro.m8al92...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
wrote:
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
wrote:
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> >Curious! I've just looked it up in the manual and yes, it does say
> >(page 22) "Force page break: ". . in a default master frame . .
> >by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing Enter on the keypad or choosing
> >Misc>Insert>New page."
> >
> >Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the
> >next line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
> Does this depend on whether NumLock is on?
NumLock's usually turned on, but on or off has no effect on this.
> >Curious! I've just looked it up in the manual and yes, it does say
> >(page 22) "Force page break: ". . in a default master frame . .
> >by pressing Ctrl P (or by pressing Enter on the keypad or choosing
> >Misc>Insert>New page."
> >
> >Ctrl P works for me, but not using Enter - it just moves to the
> >next line. I'm using OvPro 2.77 and SA-VRPC RISC OS 4.02.
> Does this depend on whether NumLock is on?
Chris Evans
Aug 6, 2012, 6:04:05 AM8/6/12
to
In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>, John Williams (News)
<URL:mailto:UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
>
> > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the next line.
>
> I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter] should do just that -
> enter some data!
I never knew that there was a difference on any OS
> In article <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
>
> > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the next line.
>
> I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter] should do just that -
> enter some data!
Can anyone list the differences in RISC OS and Windows?
Aprt from the noted OvPro effect.
Does say Firefox treat them differently but consistantly across different
OS's
> When did you last use a web form?
>
> The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is irrelevant.
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
Martin Wuerthner
Aug 6, 2012, 6:57:16 AM8/6/12
to
In message <52ba0263...@walkingingermany.invalid>
application to interpret keyboard input in the way it wants. For most
users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings to the otherwise
redundant keypad keys. You can configure that behaviour, though
admittedly in a user-unfriendly way (by editing resource files).
Stopping a module from being loaded that an application expects to use
is generally a very bad idea, but it happens to work in this case, so
if that is your solution, you are welcome. However, as has been
pointed out to you, that has side effects in that some other keyboard
shortcuts stop working, too.
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
> IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
> keyboard without making the effects easily user
> configurable.
EW does not tamper with the keyboard, nor does UKey. It is up to each
> keyboard without making the effects easily user
> configurable.
application to interpret keyboard input in the way it wants. For most
users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings to the otherwise
redundant keypad keys. You can configure that behaviour, though
admittedly in a user-unfriendly way (by editing resource files).
Stopping a module from being loaded that an application expects to use
is generally a very bad idea, but it happens to work in this case, so
if that is your solution, you are welcome. However, as has been
pointed out to you, that has side effects in that some other keyboard
shortcuts stop working, too.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 6, 2012, 8:57:49 AM8/6/12
to
In article <d01af5ba...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
a key with '2' on it, then the character '2' is what is
intended?
> For most users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings
> to the otherwise redundant keypad keys.
I call that tampering.
It means that they key produces a character other than that
the design of the key implies.
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <52ba0263...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> Russell Hafter News
> <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
> > keyboard without making the effects easily user
> > configurable.
> EW does not tamper with the keyboard, nor does UKey. It
> is up to each application to interpret keyboard input in
> the way it wants.
Really? Surely the application should assume that if I press
> In message <52ba0263...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> Russell Hafter News
> <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
> > keyboard without making the effects easily user
> > configurable.
> EW does not tamper with the keyboard, nor does UKey. It
> is up to each application to interpret keyboard input in
> the way it wants.
a key with '2' on it, then the character '2' is what is
intended?
> For most users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings
> to the otherwise redundant keypad keys.
It means that they key produces a character other than that
the design of the key implies.
Russell Hafter News
Aug 6, 2012, 9:03:15 AM8/6/12
to
In article <ant06100...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
have not used a mac since system 7.
There certainly the keypad's Enter key always produced 'New
Page' rather than 'New Line' in any WP or DTP application.
Not sure about graphics etc.
> Can anyone list the differences in RISC OS and Windows?
Windows does not recognise numbers from the keypad as the
same characters as the number keys along the top of the
keyboard when entering a windows log on password.
> Aprt from the noted OvPro effect.
> Does say Firefox treat them differently but consistantly
> across different OS's
No idea. I only know about Windows Firefox.
Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>, John
> Williams (News) <URL:mailto:UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article
> > <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > Russell Hafter News
> > <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > > next line.
> > I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> > should do just that - enter some data!
> I never knew that there was a difference on any OS
There certainly used to be a diference on Macintoshes, but I
> In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>, John
> Williams (News) <URL:mailto:UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article
> > <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > Russell Hafter News
> > <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > > next line.
> > I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> > should do just that - enter some data!
> I never knew that there was a difference on any OS
have not used a mac since system 7.
There certainly the keypad's Enter key always produced 'New
Page' rather than 'New Line' in any WP or DTP application.
Not sure about graphics etc.
> Can anyone list the differences in RISC OS and Windows?
same characters as the number keys along the top of the
keyboard when entering a windows log on password.
> Aprt from the noted OvPro effect.
> Does say Firefox treat them differently but consistantly
> across different OS's
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Aug 6, 2012, 9:08:08 AM8/6/12
to
There's a difference on 3270 terminals for IBM mainframes (that is, in the
terminal hardware, not in any OS); these days people mostly use
3270-emulator packages on PCs and one of the problems with that is that (eg
on laptops) there's only a carriage-return key on a typical laptop keyboard.
So in the emulators you have to use eg Return and Ctrl-Return to get the
two different effects.
The CR key would take a cursor from somewhere in one data entry field to the
leftmost position on the next line of that field, or the first line in the
next lowest field on the screen. Enter would send the whole screen of data
to the host (or more accurately, the terminal controller which was a
dedicated small computer whose sole job was to run a bunch of terminals).
terminal hardware, not in any OS); these days people mostly use
3270-emulator packages on PCs and one of the problems with that is that (eg
on laptops) there's only a carriage-return key on a typical laptop keyboard.
So in the emulators you have to use eg Return and Ctrl-Return to get the
two different effects.
The CR key would take a cursor from somewhere in one data entry field to the
leftmost position on the next line of that field, or the first line in the
next lowest field on the screen. Enter would send the whole screen of data
to the host (or more accurately, the terminal controller which was a
dedicated small computer whose sole job was to run a bunch of terminals).
Matthew Phillips
Aug 7, 2012, 2:08:41 AM8/7/12
to
In message <d01af5ba...@bach.planiverse.com>
option which converts '' to closing double quotes and `` to opening double
quotes, if typed quickly enough. I guess it probably covers -- and --- for
en dash and em dash.
The numeric keyboard "tampering" in EasiWriter I am aware of is the way / *
and - result in the divide sign, multiplication sign and a proper minus sign
being input. Also . on the numeric keypad results in a decimal point centred
vertically with the numbers.
All but this last I find quite useful. I find the decimal point irritating
because these days I rarely type numbers unless they are sums of money, and
for money the normal full stop would normally be used.
So to satisfy every user, I'm afraid Martin might have to add friendly
configuration key by key! While I find the decimal point annoying, I do
cope.
--
Matthew Phillips
Durham
on 6 Aug 2012 Martin Wuerthner wrote:
> In message <52ba0263...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
> > keyboard without making the effects easily user
> > configurable.
>
> EW does not tamper with the keyboard, nor does UKey. It is up to each
> application to interpret keyboard input in the way it wants. For most
> users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings to the otherwise
> redundant keypad keys. You can configure that behaviour, though
> admittedly in a user-unfriendly way (by editing resource files).
EasiWriter does give a friendly configuration option for smart quotes, the
> In message <52ba0263...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
> > keyboard without making the effects easily user
> > configurable.
>
> EW does not tamper with the keyboard, nor does UKey. It is up to each
> application to interpret keyboard input in the way it wants. For most
> users' convenience, EW gives some extra meanings to the otherwise
> redundant keypad keys. You can configure that behaviour, though
> admittedly in a user-unfriendly way (by editing resource files).
option which converts '' to closing double quotes and `` to opening double
quotes, if typed quickly enough. I guess it probably covers -- and --- for
en dash and em dash.
The numeric keyboard "tampering" in EasiWriter I am aware of is the way / *
and - result in the divide sign, multiplication sign and a proper minus sign
being input. Also . on the numeric keypad results in a decimal point centred
vertically with the numbers.
All but this last I find quite useful. I find the decimal point irritating
because these days I rarely type numbers unless they are sums of money, and
for money the normal full stop would normally be used.
So to satisfy every user, I'm afraid Martin might have to add friendly
configuration key by key! While I find the decimal point annoying, I do
cope.
--
Matthew Phillips
Durham
Chris Evans
Aug 8, 2012, 12:16:00 PM8/8/12
to
In article <52bb00a3...@walkingingermany.invalid>, Russell Hafter News
If I set up a password using numeric keyboard keys, how could I enter them
say on a laptop?
Not all laptops have overlaid numeric keyboard and even if they do would
that be the same?
<URL:mailto:see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ant06100...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
> Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>, John
> > Williams (News) <URL:mailto:UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > > Russell Hafter News
> > > <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > > > next line.
>
> > > I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> > > should do just that - enter some data!
>
> > I never knew that there was a difference on any OS
>
> There certainly used to be a diference on Macintoshes, but I
> have not used a mac since system 7.
>
> There certainly the keypad's Enter key always produced 'New
> Page' rather than 'New Line' in any WP or DTP application.
> Not sure about graphics etc.
>
> > Can anyone list the differences in RISC OS and Windows?
>
> Windows does not recognise numbers from the keypad as the
> same characters as the number keys along the top of the
> keyboard when entering a windows log on password.
Down that path lies madness surely?
> In article <ant06100...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
> Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <52b9a428...@tiscali.co.uk>, John
> > Williams (News) <URL:mailto:UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <52b9a379...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > > Russell Hafter News
> > > <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > > > next line.
>
> > > I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> > > should do just that - enter some data!
>
> > I never knew that there was a difference on any OS
>
> There certainly used to be a diference on Macintoshes, but I
> have not used a mac since system 7.
>
> There certainly the keypad's Enter key always produced 'New
> Page' rather than 'New Line' in any WP or DTP application.
> Not sure about graphics etc.
>
> > Can anyone list the differences in RISC OS and Windows?
>
> Windows does not recognise numbers from the keypad as the
> same characters as the number keys along the top of the
> keyboard when entering a windows log on password.
If I set up a password using numeric keyboard keys, how could I enter them
say on a laptop?
Not all laptops have overlaid numeric keyboard and even if they do would
that be the same?
John
Aug 9, 2012, 4:44:12 AM8/9/12
to
In article <ant08160...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
by it are different things, Chris. I've never had a problem
with passwords as you anticipate.
John
--
John
new...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> If I set up a password using numeric keyboard keys, how
> could I enter them say on a laptop? Not all laptops have
> overlaid numeric keyboard and even if they do would that
> be the same?
I think that the key identifier and the character generated
> If I set up a password using numeric keyboard keys, how
> could I enter them say on a laptop? Not all laptops have
> overlaid numeric keyboard and even if they do would that
> be the same?
by it are different things, Chris. I've never had a problem
with passwords as you anticipate.
John
--
John
new...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
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