Excitement

[Theo Markettos]

A little announcement was made today:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2338

I'm only looking at the torrent side of things, but already the download
stats are looking quite pleasing...

Theo

[Folderol]

On 05 Nov 2012 23:17:23 +0000 (GMT)

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify to myself *not* getting one :o

--
Will J G

[Stuart]

In article <20121105232749.610e130b@debian>,

I think Santa will be getting me one





Oh!





I am Santa





http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm256/stuartwinsor/Santa/



but not everybody knows that.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

[M Harding]

In article <20121105232749.610e130b@debian>,
Folderol <fold...@ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On 05 Nov 2012 23:17:23 +0000 (GMT)
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> >
> > A little announcement was made today:
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2338
> >
> > I'm only looking at the torrent side of things, but already the
> > download stats are looking quite pleasing...

> I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify to myself *not*
> getting one :o

"I can resist everything except temptation." Yes, me too.

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk

[Alan Wrigley]

Folderol <fold...@ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On 05 Nov 2012 23:17:23 +0000 (GMT)
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > A little announcement was made today:
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2338
> >
> > I'm only looking at the torrent side of things, but already the download
> > stats are looking quite pleasing...
> >

> I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify to myself *not* getting
> one :o

I bought one months ago and it's still sitting in its box with the packaging
seals intact :(

Alan

--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents

[Jess]

In message <20121105232749.610e130b@debian>

Folderol <fold...@ukfsn.org> wrote:

> I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify to myself *not*
> getting one :o

Given the price and the fact that is mostly feels faster than an
Iyonix (and runs most of the same software.) You are unlikely to be
disappointed, providing you have a compatible screen (DVI/HDMI,
composite will work, but I'd not recommend it for serious use, though
an old green screen might be good.)

RISC OS doesn't run the processor at full speed, so there is a chance
of a speed boost down the line.

There is also the likelyhood of being able to launch Linux from RISC
OS in the future (currently you have to swap cards.)

Even if Linux as a computing system is of no interest, there is a good
dedicated media player distribution, and also Android is being
developed.

It is also the cheapest way to get a RISC OS laptop. (Pi, Case, SD
card, Velcro, Atrix lapdock, 3 cables, 3 adaptors plus sliver of
sellotape, and optionally a short network cable and client WiFi
access point)

--
Jess Iyonix

[Martin Bazley]

The following bytes were arranged on 5 Nov 2012 by Folderol :

> On 05 Nov 2012 23:17:23 +0000 (GMT)
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > A little announcement was made today:
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2338

> I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify to myself *not*
> getting one :o

It's quite easy if you think about it. I haven't bought one for the
simple reason that I don't need one.

So now it runs RISC OS, so what? I already have a house full of
computers which can do that. And if what I've heard of Linux's
performance (to speak nothing of software compatibility) on its ARM
chip is anything to go by, it's not as I'd want to run any other system
on it.

So its aim is to launch a revolution in computer science and get
children interested in programming, so what? I learned to program in my
childhood in the dark days of the late 1990s and early 2000s, when
Microsoft's grip on school ICT 'lessons' was total and absolute, and any
free thought or interest in subversive technical fiddling was strictly
forbidden, so all in all I can't have been that easy to discourage from
it.

So everyone else is getting one, so what? It's only a computer, you
know, no matter how much it costs. I still can't understand why people
insist on talking in terms of 'what do you want to do with your
Raspberry Pi', as if the answer was anything other than 'exactly the
same things I'd do with any other computer only now I guess the cost of
entry is slightly lower and I won't have to install Linux myself'.
These Raspberry Jams and whole magazines devoted to what is essentially
a not very special piece of hardware are particularly ridiculous. Would
you buy a 'Dell User' or 'HP Expert' magazine? Some of these fabled
novices need to learn the difference between hardware and software -
it's Linux they're learning to program (usually not even that, just
Scratch and Python), not the Pi.

There's absolutely no reason for someone who's already interested in
computers to buy a Pi other than peer pressure and bandwagon-jumping,
which is mostly what's sustained its millions of sales. They're not
aimed at you. Don't even kid yourself you're buying it for your
six-year-old daughter so she can put down her dollies and miraculously
become the next Ada Lovelace in three months largely because you were
hovering over her shoulder the whole time ordering her to enjoy it; at
best, all you're interested in is experiencing the opportunities you
never had at that age through the nearest available proxy.

The people who *should* be buying a Pi are those bereft of the technical
knowledge to reliably find a computer's 'on' button, let alone download
and install a Usenet client and post in this thread, or without the
funds to provide their children with a spare computer to play with and
potentially break, or put off from learning to program by the black
boxes of their existing hardware but with a willingness to learn given
the opportunity, or, at a pinch, resident in the third world and in need
of a cheap, robust, low-power, small, fully-featured PC. If you're an
ICT 'teacher' you should probably be buying sixty and putting yourself
through a gruelling retraining course (because it's not as if you needed
to know anything about computers to give the 'lessons' before now, and
in my experience you probably don't). If, on the other hand, you're a
card-carrying geek with five computers in his house already, at least
one of which doesn't run Windows or iOS, and you just want to buy a Pi
to 'be part of something' or because everyone else in your Google+ feed
is doing it, don't kid yourself into thinking the Foundation ever had
any interest in you.

(Obvious exception: if you don't already have a RISC OS machine but want
to get back into the platform, there's never been a better time or way
to do it!)

--
__<^>__ Red sky in the morning: Shepherd's warning
/ _ _ \ Red sky at night: Shepherd's delight
( ( |_| ) ) Mince and potatoes: Shepherd's pie
\_> <_/ ======================= Martin Bazley ==========================

[John Williams (News)]

In article <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>,

Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> (Obvious exception: if you don't already have a RISC OS machine but want
> to get back into the platform, there's never been a better time or way
> to do it!)

Obvious other exception: If your Iyonix life-line is on-the-blink and you
want to continue life-as-it-has-been the RPi seems an economical solution.

Old hardware has a limited life. New hardware running RISC OS provides an
on-going continuity

(is there any other sort?)

to permit we afficionados/old fogies to continue life in a manner to which
we have become accustomed.

And with hardware physically more compact, at higher definitions, and
perhaps even faster!

Add to this the possibility to combine HD TV on the same shared display,
and I get really excited! Tho' it might just be my age!

Humbug, Martin!

John

--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/

[Jess]

In message <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>

Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> It's quite easy if you think about it. I haven't bought one for the
> simple reason that I don't need one.

This part I feel is a fair comment. However I think the rest is
incorrectly extrapolated fro your person situation.

> So now it runs RISC OS, so what? I already have a house full of
> computers which can do that. And if what I've heard of Linux's

If you have a working Iyonix, then it is probably no more of an
upgrade than a Kinetic from an SA RPC. Otherwise it is a big step.

Good luck on turning any previous RISC OS system into a laptop for
less than a Pi/Lapdock combo though.

> performance (to speak nothing of software compatibility) on its ARM
> chip is anything to go by, it's not as I'd want to run any other system
> on it.

Running it as a main desktop Linux workstation isn't something you'd
want to do.

However, the option to run it is potentially useful. (As would be
android, which hopefully would be more usable).

There is also a Linux based media player, which is probably what a
large number of the devices will end up doing. This looks like it has
a lot of potential.

It could also make a good light weight file server.

(Currently it doesn't do the job as well as my dedicated Asus media
player, which I suspect is down to the USB drivers, which are reported
to be poor, and would also currently reduce the attractiveness of a
server.)

> So its aim is to launch a revolution in computer science and get
> children interested in programming, so what? I learned to program in my
> childhood in the dark days of the late 1990s and early 2000s, when
> Microsoft's grip on school ICT 'lessons' was total and absolute, and any
> free thought or interest in subversive technical fiddling was strictly
> forbidden, so all in all I can't have been that easy to discourage from
> it.

I suspect that it might succede in that to a degree, but I bet that
will account for under 5% of the devices. But then they have sold many
more of the things than they expected.

I have noticed lots of people who are interested in RISC OS, (often
Archimedes users, not even A series users.)

Hopefully we will attract and retain a decent chunk of these, and the
people who now know how fast the system is.

I think the best chance of doing this is if RISC OS can provide a menu
system to softload other OSes. (Like the media player.) Who wants to
swap SD cards when the system is plumbed in properly?

> Raspberry Pi', as if the answer was anything other than 'exactly the
> same things I'd do with any other computer only now I guess the cost of

You've not noticed the size and power requirements of the board
compared to a PC, have you?

> There's absolutely no reason for someone who's already interested in
> computers to buy a Pi other than peer pressure and bandwagon-jumping,

I think the points I made above dispute that.

..

> to 'be part of something' or because everyone else in your Google+ feed
> is doing it, don't kid yourself into thinking the Foundation ever had
> any interest in you.

Google plus and netsurf :( :(

> (Obvious exception: if you don't already have a RISC OS machine but want
> to get back into the platform, there's never been a better time or way
> to do it!)

:)

--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <mpro.md2sap...@ypical.nospam.invalid>

Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>> I'm only looking at the torrent side of things, but already the download
>> stats are looking quite pleasing...

> Oh well, there goes the peace and quiet. Neighbourhood's not what it used to
> be. :-)

It certainly won't be if some oik notices what can be done with booby
trapped boot files. We have got away with security by obscurity for
that one but until now, but I think it really needs to be fixed (even
Microsoft plugged XP's similar hole, years ago.)
--
Jess Iyonix

[charles]

In article <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>,
Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and a
replacement may be needed before long.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Stuart]

In article <7a7179e...@itworkshop.invalid>,

Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suspect that it might succede in that to a degree, but I bet that
> will account for under 5% of the devices. But then they have sold many
> more of the things than they expected.

One thing that needs to be exposed to the greater populace is BBC Basic (I
presume like all RO machines it has it) which is about an easy an entry to
programming as you can get.

[Peter Young]

On 6 Nov 2012 charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>,
> Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

[snip (and go ye all and do likewise, please!)]

>> (Obvious exception: if you don't already have a RISC OS machine but want
>> to get back into the platform, there's never been a better time or way
>> to do it!)

> another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and a
> replacement may be needed before long.

Indeed so; my Iyo died late last year.

With best wishes,

Peter (now with an ARMini).

--
Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk

[John Rickman Iyonix]

charles wrote

> another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and a
> replacement may be needed before long.

Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

bah humbug indeed!


--
John - http://mug.riscos.org/

[Harriet Bazley]

On 5 Nov 2012 as I do recall,

Theo Markettos wrote:

>
> A little announcement was made today:
> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2338

They mostly seem to be interested in Elite!

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Many are called, few are chosen. Fewer still get to do the choosing.

[spampling]

In article <52ea56bf...@mdharding.org.uk>,

M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> "I can resist everything except temptation." Yes, me too.

Maybe you could get one now to check things out before you get your xmas
present. :-)
plus a little something from the ROOL products/merchandise too of course.

--

Steve Pampling

[spampling]

In article
<gemini.md2dna0073...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,

Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> I bought one months ago and it's still sitting in its box with the
> packaging seals intact :(

They degrade if they don't have RISC OS installed quickly you know.

--

Steve Pampling

[spampling]

In article <52ea91cd...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart

<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> One thing that needs to be exposed to the greater populace is BBC Basic
> (I presume like all RO machines it has it)

If you have RISC OS you have BBC Basic - you can't avoid that, it's in the
ROM image.

--

Steve Pampling

[John Williams (News)]

In article <6de29aea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>, John Rickman Iyonix

<ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number)
> > and a replacement may be needed before long.

> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

Sounds like a good reason to have two!

[John Rickman Iyonix]

John Williams (News) wrote

>> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
>> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
>> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

> Sounds like a good reason to have two!

I have ordered two more, they should arrive this week. One is for a
grandchild's 11th birthday on 12.12.2012.

The other is for me. It will sit on the Iyo running Linux for which it
is more suited (the 512M means I will be able to use Chromium as my
browser rather than Midori)
The existing Pi with its 256M memory will be promoted to RISC OS and
will also sit on the Pi. It will have to run it headless as there is
only one HDMI slot.

One use for the RISC OS Pi will be to resize photos using !FSIBatch.
At this time of the year I make up photo albums from the pick of the
year's photos. I normally use the IYonix for this but it is a pain
having two wait for it to finish processing. The extra Pi means I can
multitask.

[JV]

In message <ecb2f2ea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> John Williams (News) wrote

>>> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
>>> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
>>> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

>> Sounds like a good reason to have two!

> I have ordered two more, they should arrive this week. One is for a
> grandchild's 11th birthday on 12.12.2012.

> The other is for me. It will sit on the Iyo running Linux for which it
> is more suited (the 512M means I will be able to use Chromium as my
> browser rather than Midori)
> The existing Pi with its 256M memory will be promoted to RISC OS and
> will also sit on the Pi. It will have to run it headless as there is
> only one HDMI slot.

I would also like to run the Riscos PI headless. Can you explain how.
Which vnc server to use and settings.

> One use for the RISC OS Pi will be to resize photos using !FSIBatch.
> At this time of the year I make up photo albums from the pick of the
> year's photos. I normally use the IYonix for this but it is a pain
> having two wait for it to finish processing. The extra Pi means I can
> multitask.


> --
> John - http://mug.riscos.org/

JV

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <52ea8011...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and
> a replacement may be needed before long.

Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would a
new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a new browser that
has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[charles]

In article <52eaf84...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52ea8011...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and
> > a replacement may be needed before long.

> Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would a
> new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a new browser that
> has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

no - there isn't a new browser, but thse new machines work somewhat quicker
than the old ones. And I bought my Iyonix because of he speed increase over
my RISC PC.

BTW, computers don't usually give warning of failure. They just stop
working. I could sell you a spare MB for a RISC PC to keep one going a bit
longer although capacitors seem to die with time - not use.

[John Rickman Iyonix]

JV wrote

>> The other is for me. It will sit on the Iyo running Linux for which it
>> is more suited (the 512M means I will be able to use Chromium as my
>> browser rather than Midori)
>> The existing Pi with its 256M memory will be promoted to RISC OS and
>> will also sit on the Pi. It will have to run it headless as there is
>> only one HDMI slot.

> I would also like to run the Riscos PI headless. Can you explain how.
> Which vnc server to use and settings.

I should have said that the Linux Pi will run headless. I haven't
tried VNC server on RISC OS.

On the Linux Pi I use X11VNC as server and Avalanche client on RISC
OS.

On the Raspberry Pi using Debian Wheezy:- sudo apt-get install x11vnc

installs x11vnc and puts an entry into:
>>start menu >internet menu > X11VNC Server

click this and tick "allow connections". Run !Avalanche on RISC OS and
connect by keying your ip address and port number.
eg 192.168.1.200:5901

The above works on my local network. If you want to do more, eg start
the server at boot it gets more complicated.

see the author's site http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/

[Martin Bazley]

The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by John Rickman Iyonix :

> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

Good grief... isn't RISC OS Firefox painfully slow enough for you?

--
__<^>__ "Your pet, our passion." - Purina
/ _ _ \ "Your potential, our passion." - Microsoft, a few months later

( ( |_| ) )

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote

> Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would a
> new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a new browser that
> has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

It depends whether you use RISC OS exclusively. If you do then you
will get a useful speed increase compared with your RISC PC.

But if you are only playing at RISC OS and use other hardware and OSs
to do serious stuff then I guess the RPCs will see you out.

[JV]

In message <9d8cfbea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> JV wrote

>>> The other is for me. It will sit on the Iyo running Linux for which it
>>> is more suited (the 512M means I will be able to use Chromium as my
>>> browser rather than Midori)
>>> The existing Pi with its 256M memory will be promoted to RISC OS and
>>> will also sit on the Pi. It will have to run it headless as there is
>>> only one HDMI slot.

>> I would also like to run the Riscos PI headless. Can you explain how.
>> Which vnc server to use and settings.

> I should have said that the Linux Pi will run headless. I haven't
> tried VNC server on RISC OS.

Yes I've already got Linux Pi running headless using Tightvncserver.
It's a shame I don't seem to be able to do it with Risc OS. Maybe an
up to date port of Tightvnc on Risc OS could be done. (I live in
hope).

JV

[Martin Bazley]

The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by Jess :

> In message <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > It's quite easy if you think about it. I haven't bought one for the
> > simple reason that I don't need one.
>
> This part I feel is a fair comment. However I think the rest is
> incorrectly extrapolated fro your person situation.

The statement was, "*I* don't need one." It is true that most other
people don't need one either, although it seems quite a large number
*want* one, and are willing to fool themselves into thinking that they
always wanted a rather lame media server, or an occasional rainy-day
backup for the Iyonix they have no plans to stop using, for the sake of
it.

> > So now it runs RISC OS, so what? I already have a house full of
> > computers which can do that. And if what I've heard of Linux's
>
> If you have a working Iyonix, then it is probably no more of an
> upgrade than a Kinetic from an SA RPC. Otherwise it is a big step.

I have a working Iyonix. For that matter, I also have an ARMini, which
is even faster. But it's not as if CPU speed matters to any great
degree where RISC OS software is concerned anyway, so the question
should be less of, "My existing RISC OS computer is slower," and more
of, "I don't have an existing RISC OS computer at all."

> Good luck on turning any previous RISC OS system into a laptop for
> less than a Pi/Lapdock combo though.

Do you actually have any use for a RISC OS laptop, or do you just want
to say you have a RISC OS laptop? The OS doesn't even have any of the
features which would make it useful on a portable device, such as
battery management, WiFi, suspend-to-RAM or power saving. A RISC OS
portable might be useful one day, but not in its current state. I would
also hope that such a laptop would be considerably less clumsy and
fragile than the LapDocks. (I haven't seen CJE's model up close, but I
know that the WiFi, at least, is a bodge which doesn't work properly.)

Your logic is roughly the same as those who are buying the Raspberry Pi
because they want to say they have bought the Raspberry Pi, and not for
any serious or rational reason, which happens to have been the point I
was making.

Look - if you first decide that you need to buy a new computer, and then
have to think of things you would do with it once you had it, then you
don't need a new computer. Some of the self-deluding excuses I've seen
(in loads of places, not just here) are downright pathetic.

Witness the litany here:

> Running it as a main desktop Linux workstation isn't something you'd
> want to do.
>
> However, the option to run it is potentially useful. (As would be
> android, which hopefully would be more usable).
>
> There is also a Linux based media player, which is probably what a
> large number of the devices will end up doing. This looks like it has
> a lot of potential.
>
> It could also make a good light weight file server.
>
> (Currently it doesn't do the job as well as my dedicated Asus media
> player, which I suspect is down to the USB drivers, which are reported
> to be poor, and would also currently reduce the attractiveness of a
> server.)

You see my point. It's not as if you *need* the thing, but now you've
already bought it, you're jolly well going to retroactively think up
justifications.

Did you buy the Raspberry Pi because you wanted a RISC OS laptop? Or
did you buy the Raspberry Pi, then think, "Hey, if I bought this other
thing then I could have a mediocre RISC OS sort-of laptop!"?

> > So its aim is to launch a revolution in computer science and get
> > children interested in programming, so what? I learned to program in my
> > childhood in the dark days of the late 1990s and early 2000s, when
> > Microsoft's grip on school ICT 'lessons' was total and absolute, and any
> > free thought or interest in subversive technical fiddling was strictly
> > forbidden, so all in all I can't have been that easy to discourage from
> > it.
>
> I suspect that it might succede in that to a degree, but I bet that
> will account for under 5% of the devices. But then they have sold many
> more of the things than they expected.

It's a pity that the Foundation's charitable statement is to get
children interested in computer programming, then. The Pi is only a
means to that end. The ravening hordes of gadget obsessives caught them
on the hop, as anyone who attempted to buy an early model can testify.

> I have noticed lots of people who are interested in RISC OS, (often
> Archimedes users, not even A series users.)
>
> Hopefully we will attract and retain a decent chunk of these, and the
> people who now know how fast the system is.

Yes, for entirely selfish reasons which also have nothing to do with the
Foundation's charitable aims, we can now piggyback on their work and
advertise RISC OS as the world's cheapest operating system to get into
(that isn't unreasonably complex and doesn't run like treacle).

But although we can try to tempt non-RISC OS users into the fold with
the Pi, if your only reason for buying a Pi is that you want to
experiment with this strange new OS, then, again, you don't need one.
All it takes, like most things in this oppressively consumerist world of
ours, is a bit of willpower.

> > Raspberry Pi', as if the answer was anything other than 'exactly the
> > same things I'd do with any other computer only now I guess the cost
> > of
>
> You've not noticed the size and power requirements of the board
> compared to a PC, have you?

And these are relevant how? Does Python run faster if the electrons
don't have so far to travel?

> > There's absolutely no reason for someone who's already interested in
> > computers to buy a Pi other than peer pressure and bandwagon-jumping,
>
> I think the points I made above dispute that.

I think they reinforced that, though that probably wasn't their intended
effect.

--
__<^>__
/ _ _ \ I don't have a problem with God; it's his fan club I can't stand.

( ( |_| ) )

[Folderol]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:43:34 GMT
Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by Jess :
>
> > In message <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> > Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > It's quite easy if you think about it. I haven't bought one for the
> > > simple reason that I don't need one.
> >
> > This part I feel is a fair comment. However I think the rest is
> > incorrectly extrapolated fro your person situation.
>
> The statement was, "*I* don't need one." It is true that most other
> people don't need one either, although it seems quite a large number
> *want* one, and are willing to fool themselves into thinking that they
> always wanted a rather lame media server, or an occasional rainy-day
> backup for the Iyonix they have no plans to stop using, for the sake of
> it.

Good grief, what an incredibly negative attitude.

I suppose I don't actually *need* most of what is in my house, nor do I *need*
the nice car outside, but what a miserable world it would be in people never
did any fun things. Even in prehistory when life was pretty hard, people found
the time to add decoration to their possessions in a way that wasn't actually
necessary.

--
Will J G

[Felicity S.]

Stuart wrote:

> Jess wrote:

>> I suspect that it might succede in that to a degree, but I bet that
>> will account for under 5% of the devices. But then they have sold many
>> more of the things than they expected.

> One thing that needs to be exposed to the greater populace is BBC Basic (I
> presume like all RO machines it has it) which is about an easy an entry to
> programming as you can get.

In the quarter finals of Only Connect this week, a team of very intelligent
and well-read people in their 20s and 30s looked at the four words...

Print Data If Goto

..and couldn't think of a single thing that they had in common.


Fliss

--
She said: You campaigned for me? Why? You think all this...
'school spirit' stuff is stupid.
He said: I never said it was stupid, I said it's beneath you.

[M Harding]

In article <a40bffea...@blueyonder.co.uk>,

Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by Jess :

> > In message <15076aea...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> > Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > It's quite easy if you think about it. I haven't bought one
> > > for the simple reason that I don't need one.
> >
> > This part I feel is a fair comment. However I think the rest is
> > incorrectly extrapolated fro your person situation.

> The statement was, "*I* don't need one." It is true that most
> other people don't need one either, although it seems quite a large

> number *want* one, [ . . hefty snip . . ]

In all honesty, Martin, I suspect you're right in that, as usual,
"wants" are not actually "needs".

("Want" is one of those weasel words which have 2 distinct meanings:
"a want" in the sense of "lack of", yet "want" can also have the
sense "desire for".)

And in all honesty, I'm looking for an excuse to play with a new toy.
I've got a defunct SA-RPC, a working Kinetic and 2 SA-VRPCs to keep
all my years of work using computers from slipping into a black hole.
Do I need more than belt, braces and also a piece of string? But I
worry that the Kinetic string's getting a bit frayed . .

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Martin Bazley wrote

> The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by John Rickman Iyonix :

>> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
>> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
>> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.

> Good grief... isn't RISC OS Firefox painfully slow enough for you?

Chromium is too slow to run via VNC but is ok native. With the new Pi
512 I am expecting it to work at a respectable speed.
Meanwhile Midori, although a trifle ugly works well.

In any case I only use the Linux browser for internet purchases and am
not in a hurry when using credit cards online.

[Alan Wrigley]

"Felicity S." <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

> In the quarter finals of Only Connect this week, a team of very
> intelligent and well-read people in their 20s and 30s looked at the four
> words...
>
> Print Data If Goto
>
> ..and couldn't think of a single thing that they had in common.

<pedant>

It was actually Print Data Rem Goto

</pedant>

Alan

--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents

[Folderol]

Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

OKOK I'm getting my coat :)

--
Will J G

[Alan Wrigley]

Folderol <fold...@ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:45:20 +0000
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > It was actually Print Data Rem Goto
> >

> Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

I doubt if it was meant to be BBC Basic.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <af1efcea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would
> > a new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a new browser
> > that has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

> It depends whether you use RISC OS exclusively. If you do then you
> will get a useful speed increase compared with your RISC PC.

> But if you are only playing at RISC OS and use other hardware and OSs
> to do serious stuff then I guess the RPCs will see you out.

Playing with RISC OS? Well, I suppose this sort of use is playing.

How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility disappeared
over a decade ago.

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

[Derek.Moody]

In article <ecb2f2ea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>, John Rickman Iyonix

<URL:mailto:ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> John Williams (News) wrote
>
> >> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
> >> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
> >> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.
>
> > Sounds like a good reason to have two!

Two seems about right here as well, for now.

> The other is for me. It will sit on the Iyo running Linux for which it
> is more suited (the 512M means I will be able to use Chromium as my
> browser rather than Midori)

PupPi (Puppy) has been in beta for a while and should be out rsn. As is,
it's easily the fastest linux distro on the RPi and runs a wide range of
browsers.

ASAP I'd like to replace my local print/net/streaming/file server with
something quieter and lower powered. Currently it's a damaged laptop running
Puppy headlessly (actually it does have a head - a severely damaged screen
that happens to have its only readable bit just where the bootup system
check reports but otherwise is blanked unless VNC is active.)

> The existing Pi with its 256M memory will be promoted to RISC OS and
> will also sit on the Pi. It will have to run it headless as there is
> only one HDMI slot.

And RISC OS on RPi is faster than Puppy - not that speed matters much for
most of my RISC OS work.

Like many Acorn users of old my main workhorse is this RPc, mostly software
development and graphics, output ported to Linux and Apple systems or the
WWW. For me the only stumbling block is the lack of a recent Perl port -
5.8.8 is beginning to look tired now that 5.16.n is available 'though 5.8 is
still probably the single commonest version in the wild - just.
I note the Chris Gransden has a new port of Python available so things are
moving fast.

Not sure about php and java - anyone?

So, one to replace the local server, one to replace the RPc, one to box
along with a wifi hotspot and a battery to act a sandbox server in classes
and clubs, one to carry as a demonstration to M$ brainwashed managers that
other OS's exist, one just to play with ... did I say two would do? Oops.

It's time to dust off a lot of the old educational software, 32 bit the
code and (in many cases it's all that's needed) update the screen handling.

My fear is that we'll start to see new viruses appearing. I used to use my
RPc as a rudimentary firewall, now, er. Anyone up to writing a modern RISC
OS firewall?

Cheerio,

--
>> derek...@casterbridge.net

[Derek.Moody]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>, Felicity S.

<URL:mailto:Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

> In the quarter finals of Only Connect this week, a team of very intelligent
> and well-read people in their 20s and 30s looked at the four words...
>
> Print Data If Goto
>
> ..and couldn't think of a single thing that they had in common.

Of course not. Capitalised that way they're obviously a red-herring.

Cheerio,

--
>> derek...@casterbridge.net

[Derek.Moody]

In article <52eaf84...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

<URL:mailto:da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52ea8011...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number) and
> > a replacement may be needed before long.
>
> Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would a
> new RISC OS machine do they can't?

Run silently.

> Is there magically a new browser that
> has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

The advantage of the RPi is that you can run several (soon many) operating
systems on it - so if you need a different bell or whistle boot accordingly
and reboot in RISC OS afterwards.

Cheerio,

--
>> derek...@casterbridge.net

[Harriet Bazley]

On 7 Nov 2012 as I do recall,

Martin Bazley wrote:

> The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by Jess :
>

[snip]

> > I have noticed lots of people who are interested in RISC OS, (often
> > Archimedes users, not even A series users.)
> >
> > Hopefully we will attract and retain a decent chunk of these, and the
> > people who now know how fast the system is.
>
> Yes, for entirely selfish reasons which also have nothing to do with the
> Foundation's charitable aims, we can now piggyback on their work and
> advertise RISC OS as the world's cheapest operating system to get into
> (that isn't unreasonably complex and doesn't run like treacle).
>
> But although we can try to tempt non-RISC OS users into the fold with
> the Pi, if your only reason for buying a Pi is that you want to
> experiment with this strange new OS, then, again, you don't need one.
> All it takes, like most things in this oppressively consumerist world of
> ours, is a bit of willpower.
>

They don't *need* a Raspberry Pi - but we may well *need* them to take
up RISC OS!

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

C++ - the language in which only friends can access your private members

[Chris Gransden]

In article <ant08005...@strongarm.half-baked-idea.co.uk>,

> Like many Acorn users of old my main workhorse is this RPc, mostly software
> development and graphics, output ported to Linux and Apple systems or the
> WWW. For me the only stumbling block is the lack of a recent Perl port -
> 5.8.8 is beginning to look tired now that 5.16.n is available 'though 5.8 is
> still probably the single commonest version in the wild - just.
> I note the Chris Gransden has a new port of Python available so things are
> moving fast.

I've got a port of perl 5.14.2. I haven't got around to doing anything
with it yet.

> Not sure about php and java - anyone?

There's no reason why an updated port of php couldn't be done. I doubt java
will happen any time soon. There is a RISC OS port of mono (RISC OS .net)
in progress I believe.

Chris

[Felicity S.]

Alan wrote:

> "Felicity S." <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

>> In the quarter finals of Only Connect this week, a team of very
>> intelligent and well-read people in their 20s and 30s looked at the
>> four words...

>> Print Data If Goto

>> ..and couldn't think of a single thing that they had in common.

> <pedant>
> It was actually Print Data Rem Goto
> </pedant>

Oh yes of course, the "If" went off to join the Kipling group, leaving
behind the "Data" which was excluded from the fictional robots group.

In any case, the incident still showed up their lamentable education.


Fliss

--
She said: If it weren't for you I would still be the
Queen of Portugal. And now, what am I?
He said: You are drunk and you are foolish!

[charles]

In article <52eb03d...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <af1efcea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,
> John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would
> > > a new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a new browser
> > > that has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

> > It depends whether you use RISC OS exclusively. If you do then you
> > will get a useful speed increase compared with your RISC PC.

> > But if you are only playing at RISC OS and use other hardware and OSs
> > to do serious stuff then I guess the RPCs will see you out.

> Playing with RISC OS? Well, I suppose this sort of use is playing.

> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility disappeared
> over a decade ago.

I use it for serious DTP work. That's why I had to 'upgrade' to an Iyonix.

[Alan Wrigley]

Chris Gransden <chr...@care4free.net> wrote:

> In article <ant08005...@strongarm.half-baked-idea.co.uk>,

> > For me the only stumbling block is the lack of a recent Perl port -
>

> I've got a port of perl 5.14.2. I haven't got around to doing anything
> with it yet.

Have the RO-specific modules (e.g. SWI) ever been 32-bitted?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ant07224...@strongarm.half-baked-idea.co.uk>, Derek.Moody

<derek...@casterbridge.net> wrote:
> In article <52eaf84...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)
> <URL:mailto:da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52ea8011...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles
> > <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > another exception is that my Iyonix is getting old (as are a number)
> > > and a replacement may be needed before long.
> >
> > Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What would
> > a new RISC OS machine do they can't?

> Run silently.

That's not sold it to me.

> > Is there magically a new browser
> > that has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

> The advantage of the RPi is that you can run several (soon many)
> operating systems on it - so if you need a different bell or whistle
> boot accordingly and reboot in RISC OS afterwards.

All that does is confirm my previous statement. I have a PC here that
shares the monitor etc with my RPC. Between the two, does everything I
want.

> Cheerio,

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <52eb4753...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

And the Pi is going to be ideal for that?

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

[John Rickman Iyonix]

charles wrote

>> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility disappeared
>> over a decade ago.

My wife has produced the Parish magazine on a RISC PC every month
since 1996. It is funded by graphic adverts prduced on ArtWorks and
set out using Publisher+.

I use my Iyonix for Web development for the parish Council. All email
is on RISC OS since I bought shares in Argonet in 199?.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <a15e5aeb5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> charles wrote

> >> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility
> >> disappeared over a decade ago.

> My wife has produced the Parish magazine on a RISC PC every month
> since 1996. It is funded by graphic adverts prduced on ArtWorks and
> set out using Publisher+.

On an RPC.

> I use my Iyonix for Web development for the parish Council. All email
> is on RISC OS since I bought shares in Argonet in 199?.

I use my RPC for lots of things.

I was just wondering why this Pi was a 'must have' device? Except as a
toy, of course.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

[Russell Hafter News]

In article <a15e5aeb5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>, John

All my booking confirmations are done with Pipedream.

Costings also Pipedeream.

Route descriptions, vouchers and all other holiday
documentattiom is done in Easiwriter

Web pages are edited with NetSurf and Edit

Address data kept in Masterfile.

E-mail POPStar / Pluto

Invoices are either Easiwriter or an ancient BBC B (BASIC)
program that I forget who sold back in the mid 1980s.

PrintPDF for converting documents from Easiwriter to PDF.



I also have a PC, used for:

Online banking and online reservations (Firefox).

Accounting (Quicken [free from a magazine cover disc] -
which ran quite happily on the old PC cards in an RPC). I
did buy a second hand copy of Prophet (RISC OS) years ago,
but never got around to using it. Any takers?

Reading MSWord documents that Easiwriter cannot cope with
(OpenOffice 3)

Reading PDFs that PDF cannot cope with (Adobe Reader).

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

[Jess]

In message <a40bffea...@blueyonder.co.uk>

Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Do you actually have any use for a RISC OS laptop, or do you just want
> to say you have a RISC OS laptop? The OS doesn't even have any of the

Yes, as it happens. It means i'm not trapped in one location in the
house, I can also use it away from home.

> features which would make it useful on a portable device, such as
> battery management, WiFi, suspend-to-RAM or power saving.

It still lasts better than my Linux laptop (that just stopped
booting.)

> A RISC OS
> portable might be useful one day, but not in its current state. I would
> also hope that such a laptop would be considerably less clumsy and
> fragile than the LapDocks. (I haven't seen CJE's model up close, but I
> know that the WiFi, at least, is a bodge which doesn't work properly.)

It is a Lapdock, and it works fine. The wifi is only as much as a
bodge as using it on a TV or playstation 2. (I already had the device
and used it for a while with my iyonix.)

> Your logic is roughly the same as those who are buying the Raspberry Pi
> because they want to say they have bought the Raspberry Pi, and not for
> any serious or rational reason, which happens to have been the point I
> was making.

In that case it is also the same as buying an Iyonix was, or even
replacing a PC.

> Look - if you first decide that you need to buy a new computer, and then
> have to think of things you would do with it once you had it, then you
> don't need a new computer. Some of the self-deluding excuses I've seen
> (in loads of places, not just here) are downright pathetic.

> Witness the litany here:

>> Running it as a main desktop Linux workstation isn't something you'd
>> want to do.
>>
>> However, the option to run it is potentially useful. (As would be
>> android, which hopefully would be more usable).
>>
>> There is also a Linux based media player, which is probably what a
>> large number of the devices will end up doing. This looks like it has
>> a lot of potential.
>>
>> It could also make a good light weight file server.
>>
>> (Currently it doesn't do the job as well as my dedicated Asus media
>> player, which I suspect is down to the USB drivers, which are reported
>> to be poor, and would also currently reduce the attractiveness of a
>> server.)

> You see my point. It's not as if you *need* the thing, but now you've
> already bought it, you're jolly well going to retroactively think up
> justifications.

But I don't *need* the Iyonix, The Kinetic was fine, but then why did
I need that, because my old SA RPC was also fine?

> Did you buy the Raspberry Pi because you wanted a RISC OS laptop? Or

No, that was just a fortuitous discovery.

> did you buy the Raspberry Pi, then think, "Hey, if I bought this other
> thing then I could have a mediocre RISC OS sort-of laptop!"?

It's not mediocre at all.

And the original reasons were no different at all to buying an Iyonix,
with the difference that it was cheap and also has alternate uses.

>>> So its aim is to launch a revolution in computer science and get
>>> children interested in programming, so what? I learned to program in my
>>> childhood in the dark days of the late 1990s and early 2000s, when
>>> Microsoft's grip on school ICT 'lessons' was total and absolute, and any
>>> free thought or interest in subversive technical fiddling was strictly
>>> forbidden, so all in all I can't have been that easy to discourage from
>>> it.
>>
>> I suspect that it might succede in that to a degree, but I bet that
>> will account for under 5% of the devices. But then they have sold many
>> more of the things than they expected.

> It's a pity that the Foundation's charitable statement is to get
> children interested in computer programming, then. The Pi is only a
> means to that end. The ravening hordes of gadget obsessives caught them
> on the hop, as anyone who attempted to buy an early model can testify.

That was their aim, and I think they will succede they just didn't
expect to sell so many devices to achieve that aim.

>> I have noticed lots of people who are interested in RISC OS, (often
>> Archimedes users, not even A series users.)
>>
>> Hopefully we will attract and retain a decent chunk of these, and the
>> people who now know how fast the system is.

> Yes, for entirely selfish reasons which also have nothing to do with the
> Foundation's charitable aims, we can now piggyback on their work and
> advertise RISC OS as the world's cheapest operating system to get into
> (that isn't unreasonably complex and doesn't run like treacle).

Rubbish. The original aims of RISC OS were similar to those of the
foundation, so it is a good match to further their aims.

> But although we can try to tempt non-RISC OS users into the fold with
> the Pi, if your only reason for buying a Pi is that you want to
> experiment with this strange new OS, then, again, you don't need one.
> All it takes, like most things in this oppressively consumerist world of
> ours, is a bit of willpower.

But the Pi is a very cheap and simple way to do that. And that is
compatitible with the aims of the charity.

>>> Raspberry Pi', as if the answer was anything other than 'exactly the
>>> same things I'd do with any other computer only now I guess the cost
>>> of
>>
>> You've not noticed the size and power requirements of the board
>> compared to a PC, have you?

> And these are relevant how? Does Python run faster if the electrons
> don't have so far to travel?

Fits in a small space and takes less power, think robotics and model
aircraft.

>>> There's absolutely no reason for someone who's already interested in
>>> computers to buy a Pi other than peer pressure and bandwagon-jumping,
>>
>> I think the points I made above dispute that.

> I think they reinforced that, though that probably wasn't their intended
> effect.

Only with a lot of spin.

--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <451a14eb5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In any case I only use the Linux browser for internet purchases and am
> not in a hurry when using credit cards online.

I use netsurf, I am of the opinion that if site designers can't design
a site to work properly without javascript, how can they be trusted to
have built it securely?

If it doesn't work, and there is no geographic phone number, I'll look
at other sites.

--
Jess Iyonix

[Jess]

In message <52eb5c7...@davenoise.co.uk>

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> I was just wondering why this Pi was a 'must have' device? Except as a
> toy, of course.

Effectively an Iyonix for Ł60 for us. But also potentially a media
player (On a par with those costing a bit more.) A network server.
Even a slow linux workstation.

--
Jess Iyonix

[charles]

In article <52eb5a5...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52eb4753...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52eb03d...@davenoise.co.uk>,
> > Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <af1efcea5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,
> > > John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Both my RPCs seem fine. And I expect them to go on forever. What
> > > > > would a new RISC OS machine do they can't? Is there magically a
> > > > > new browser that has all the bells and whistles I expect on my PC?

> > > > It depends whether you use RISC OS exclusively. If you do then you
> > > > will get a useful speed increase compared with your RISC PC.

> > > > But if you are only playing at RISC OS and use other hardware and
> > > > OSs to do serious stuff then I guess the RPCs will see you out.

> > > Playing with RISC OS? Well, I suppose this sort of use is playing.

> > > How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility
> > > disappeared over a decade ago.

> > I use it for serious DTP work. That's why I had to 'upgrade' to an
> > Iyonix.

> And the Pi is going to be ideal for that?

it could be, since it runs both OvPro & Artworks - a bit faster than the
Iyonix

[charles]

I didn't write that. You snipped wrongly - I disagreed with the comment.


In article <a15e5aeb5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>, John Rickman Iyonix

[charles]

In article <52eb650c5...@onetel.net.uk.invalid>,
Barry Allen (news) <evan...@onetel.net.uk.invalid> wrote:
> In article <52eb5a5...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52eb4753...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles
> > <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I use it for serious DTP work. That's why I had to 'upgrade' to an
> > > Iyonix.

> > And the Pi is going to be ideal for that?

> I have Ovation Pro running on a Pi and can't see any difference between
> it running on my Iyonix and my Raspberry Pi.

is it not faster on the Pi? disappointing if not.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <52eb03d...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:


> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility
> disappeared over a decade ago.

You mean you've never read any of the articles I've written, shaken your
head, and said, "Oh dear, that looks serious." ? ;->

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <52eb5c7...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:


> I was just wondering why this Pi was a 'must have' device? Except as a
> toy, of course.

In my case, the current situation isn't a feeling that I "must have" an
RiPi. But it is that I would like one to explore its potential, and can
think of uses. This is preciely because it is small and has features like
the GPIO that I might be able to use for tasks that my Iyonix isn't well
suited. Plus that it will run Linx distros that may well make it very handy
for other tasks.

However if my Iyonix were to fail and not be restorable without a lot of
difficulty, something like an RiPi or Armini may well be a 'must have' for
me as an alternative to having to shift all my use of RO software to
RPCEmu. Given how cheap and small the RiPi is, it seems pretty tempting all
around. At what level that becomes "must have" is, I guess, a matter of
personal judgement. One advantage of the RiPi is that it is so cheap I can
risk breaking one experimenting with it, and if so, just buy another! Not
something I'd be so eager to risk with either my Iyonix or any of my Linux
boxes (except perhaps the c10 yr old crumbling laptop).

[Chris Gransden]

In article <52eb6d3b...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

Another advantage of the Raspberry Pi is you can easily overclock it just
by adding a few lines to a config file. Most oveclock to be about 50%
faster.

Chris.

[charles]

In article <52eb6f310...@onetel.net.uk.invalid>,

Barry Allen (news) <evan...@onetel.net.uk.invalid> wrote:

> In article <52eb6d3b...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles
> <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I was thinking more about function than speed. It is probably faster on
> the Pi, but it doesn't improve my typing speed. :o))

indeed. <CTRL> Q is so useful.

[Folderol]

One thing that would particularly interest me would be if there was a simple
way to access the GPIO from Risc Os. If so, with a single application taking
over the machine, it would make an extremely powerful near real-time embedded
system.

--
Will J G

[spampling]

In article <a40bffea...@blueyonder.co.uk>,

Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Do you actually have any use for a RISC OS laptop, or do you just want
> to say you have a RISC OS laptop? The OS doesn't even have any of the

> features which would make it useful on a portable device, such as

> battery management, WiFi, suspend-to-RAM or power saving. A RISC OS

> portable might be useful one day, but not in its current state. I would
> also hope that such a laptop would be considerably less clumsy and
> fragile than the LapDocks.

A port suitable for the Samsung Exynos series would make the Samsung
Chromebook a viable platform.
Suspend to RAM is essentially a tweak of the feature of Memphis that makes
fast operation of things like NetSurf possible even if the boot device of
the system is slow.
Battery voltage monitoring is a similar task to monitoring of the CMOS
battery on the beagle (and Pandora IIRC) WiFi is a porting job requiring
access to open source covering the specific device or device family - some
of these have source available, some devices don't.

I've just had a day of heating people talk about how lots of things won't
happen because no one will do anything rather than pausing and identifying
the things that they personally can do and asking who can fill the other
gaps. There is nothing more certain than failure when everyone decides it
can't work.

--

Steve Pampling

[Chris Johnson]

In article <20121108183011.5ec8422d@debian>,

Folderol <fold...@ukfsn.org> wrote:
> One thing that would particularly interest me would be if there was
> a simple way to access the GPIO from Risc Os.

There is a GPIO module which covers BB and RPi.

http://www.tankstage.co.uk/Software/

Steve Drain has also said he is thinking of adding some keywords to
Basalt to hide away some of the SWI interface.

--
Chris Johnson

[Derek.Moody]

In article <52eb2b3e...@care4free.net>, Chris Gransden

<URL:mailto:chr...@care4free.net> wrote:
> In article <ant08005...@strongarm.half-baked-idea.co.uk>,

> > I note the Chris Gransden has a new port of Python available so things are
> > moving fast.
>
> I've got a port of perl 5.14.2. I haven't got around to doing anything
> with it yet.

Perl makes a good 'real-world' alternative to C++ as a programming step up
from BASIC. Do something with it soon - please.

> > Not sure about php and java - anyone?
>
> There's no reason why an updated port of php couldn't be done. I doubt java

And php has become the fashionable equivalent on the WWW.

Java is mostly a heavy lifting server side language nowadays so it's less
important imo (but I'd still like to like to have it.)

Just the three 'P's are enough to make a RPi+RISCOS platform a viable
learning through to low end professional programming toolkit; exactly what
the RPi is intended for.

Keep up the good work :-)

Now, I ought to contribute something.
I've always thought that Draw was the Acorn killer-app that misfired; so,
perhaps I should dust off some of my Draw examples and tutorials, things
like:

http://www.half-baked-idea.co.uk/tempstore/Valentine.zip

Suitable?

Cheerio,

--
>> derek...@casterbridge.net

[druck]

On 07/11/2012 17:02, Martin Bazley wrote:
> The following bytes were arranged on 6 Nov 2012 by John Rickman Iyonix :
>
>> Meanwhile ... my pi sits on top of my iyonix running Linux and a VNC
>> server which provides me with a full spec web browser on my Iyonix
>> screen via the Avalanche VNC client.
>
> Good grief... isn't RISC OS Firefox painfully slow enough for you?
>
Running remotely over VNC is actually a lot quicker than natively, and
its a full up to date Firefox, not some ancient unfinished port.

---druck

[Felicity S.]

Folderol wrote:

> Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

No, that's not how it's done.


Fliss

--
She said: So, fighting all those aliens is okay with
you, but a bit of skateboarding, and whoa.
She said: I know, shame on me, I've gone all Mumsy!

[Richard Torrens (News)]

In article <52eb03d...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility
> disappeared over a decade ago.

We run our whole business on Risc OS.

It's all programmed in PipeDream.

We have server program (Zope) which handles www sales anad sends encrypted
emails to Pluto. Form there the attachment is exported, decrypted by an
Obey file then dragged and dropped into PipeDream.

OpenVector for all ther drawings and PCB design. OvationPro for the
manuals etc.

As this is our livelihood, I would certainly consider it serious!

FWIW Eben Upton did the software for one of our controllers: it was
partly this, and our use of RISC OS that got him into doing the RPi.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. News email address is valid - for a limited time only.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

[spampling]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>,

Felicity S. <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:
> Folderol wrote:

> > Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

> No, that's not how it's done.

Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

--

Steve Pampling

[Alan Wrigley]

spampling <spam....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> In article
> <gemini.md2dna0073...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> > I bought one months ago and it's still sitting in its box with the
> > packaging seals intact :(
>
> They degrade if they don't have RISC OS installed quickly you know.

Well this thread has prompted me to take action, and I've just taken
delivery of a lovely little raspberry-coloured case for it.

Alan

--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents

[Jess]

In message <ant08235...@strongarm.half-baked-idea.co.uk>
"Derek.Moody" <derek...@casterbridge.net> wrote:


> http://www.half-baked-idea.co.uk/tempstore/Valentine.zip

That's pretty cool. Three months to find a suitable woman with a
Raspberry Pi then. :)

--
Jess Iyonix

[Brian Jordan]

In message <f633eae...@itworkshop.invalid>

When you find her be very careful how you raise the subject of her
Raspberry Pi.

--

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20

[Alan Dawes]

In article
<gemini.md7v00004j...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,

Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> spampling <spam....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> > In article
> > <gemini.md2dna0073...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
> > Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I bought one months ago and it's still sitting in its box with the
> > > packaging seals intact :(
> >
> > They degrade if they don't have RISC OS installed quickly you know.

> Well this thread has prompted me to take action, and I've just taken
> delivery of a lovely little raspberry-coloured case for it.

I found that the little transparent cases for the BeagleBoard -xm caused a
large rise in temp of the processor and had to raise the lid by about 2 cm
to get enough airflow to keep the temp below 70ï¿œC. For some reason I found
that it's worse when using a screen saver - when you move the mouse to
wake it up the temp was around 80ï¿œC and took several minutes for it to
drop back to below 70.

Does this occur with the Rpi? Is there a little prog that monitors and
displays the processor temp as there is for the BB-xm?

Alan Dawes

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

[Felicity S.]

Spampling wrote:

> Felicity S. wrote:

>> Folderol wrote:

>>> Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

>> No, that's not how it's done.

> Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto


Fliss

--
He said: We don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.
She said: Right, because my panties stuffed in your paper
shredder probably didn't tip them off.

[Eric Rucker]

Martin Bazley wrote:
> There's absolutely no reason for someone who's already interested in
> computers to buy a Pi other than peer pressure and bandwagon-jumping,

> which is mostly what's sustained its millions of sales. They're not
> aimed at you. Don't even kid yourself you're buying it for your
> six-year-old daughter so she can put down her dollies and miraculously
> become the next Ada Lovelace in three months largely because you were
> hovering over her shoulder the whole time ordering her to enjoy it; at
> best, all you're interested in is experiencing the opportunities you
> never had at that age through the nearest available proxy.
>
> The people who *should* be buying a Pi are those bereft of the technical
> knowledge to reliably find a computer's 'on' button, let alone download
> and install a Usenet client and post in this thread, or without the
> funds to provide their children with a spare computer to play with and
> potentially break, or put off from learning to program by the black
> boxes of their existing hardware but with a willingness to learn given
> the opportunity, or, at a pinch, resident in the third world and in need
> of a cheap, robust, low-power, small, fully-featured PC. If you're an
> ICT 'teacher' you should probably be buying sixty and putting yourself
> through a gruelling retraining course (because it's not as if you needed
> to know anything about computers to give the 'lessons' before now, and
> in my experience you probably don't). If, on the other hand, you're a
> card-carrying geek with five computers in his house already, at least
> one of which doesn't run Windows or iOS, and you just want to buy a Pi
> to 'be part of something' or because everyone else in your Google+ feed
> is doing it, don't kid yourself into thinking the Foundation ever had
> any interest in you.

If I recall what I've read about the project so far correctly, the
entire reason for the Pi being commercially available at this point is
so that people get their hands on it, and do cool stuff with it. I'm
assuming that they've learned from the whole OLPC developer program,
and realize that having a top-down hierarchy of blessed developers
doesn't work - instead, let people get their hands on it and use it
for whatever they want, and then take the good stuff from that.

Granted, that means that using it as a RISC OS desktop is outside of
the intended goal, but it's an interesting side effect, and the
Foundation doesn't seem to mind that people are using their board for
something.

And, people ARE developing cool stuff for the Pi right now, both
hardware and software, and for both Linux and RISC OS. Personally, I'm
looking at learning a bit of WIMP programming and contributing to the
port by providing a nice UI for manipulating config.txt. I learn
something, the community gains something, and the Foundation gains
something (RISC OS is one of the OSes they list on their main download
page, so if it becomes easier to use, all the better).

> (Obvious exception: if you don't already have a RISC OS machine but want
> to get back into the platform, there's never been a better time or way
> to do it!)

Or, actually, I've noticed a lot of interest in the Pi - specifically
as a RISC OS platform, even - in heavily US-biased retrocomputing
communities. I know several people who find the platform interesting,
but don't want to shell out ridiculous cash to get one of the Acorn
RISC OS machines or an Iyonix into the US (and anything older than a
StrongARM RiscPC is pretty useless for what a lot of people will want
to try), and find emulation of the platform to be difficult. (As great
as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI issues, misbehaves badly on
Windows (which results in total failure when running on a secured XP
install, and some highly annoying gotchas when running on Vista or 7
with UAC enabled or as a non-admin), and networking is a huge pain
right now due to some issues with the current implementation. And, it
ends up requiring significant knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully
understand how to set it up.)

Myself, I lucked out, and located a StrongARM RiscPC that was already
in the US, but that's extremely rare. And, I appear to have burned out
the VIDC by running it at 1600x1200 @ 60 Hz for a few years on end, so
it's now unusable - repairing it will be a pain. So, my Pi serves as a
replacement for the RiscPC, and I'm now looking for an A3020 for
playing with older RISC OS stuff including games. (I was going to go
for an A3000, but I've realized that it'll be far more of a pain to
upgrade an A3000 to a nice spec (4 MiB RAM, IDE, ethernet, full VGA
compatibility, RISC OS 3.1x, 1600 kiB floppy support, etc., etc.),
than it will be to convert an A3020 to US power and add ethernet and
RAM.)

[Jess]

In message <d7a352ae-ad96-4ef5...@g8g2000yqp.googlegrou
ps.com>

Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> using it as a RISC OS desktop is outside of
> the intended goal,

I don't see that it is, it certainly isn't the route they intended,
but it is a much better platform for the educational side.

And it seems that a several former Archimedes users (and I mean that
literally, as in pre A series users) are now updating their programs
to run on RO 5.

If we were get a fair chink of what was available in a (British)
classroom prior to the downgrade to windows 3.1, then Linux wouldn't
come near.

--
Jess Iyonix

[Thomas Milius]

In message <ba5569e...@itworkshop.invalid>

Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > features which would make it useful on a portable device, such as
> > battery management, WiFi, suspend-to-RAM or power saving.

RISC OS itself has limited but useful power saving features since days of the
A4 as I had to learn with the appearance of CPUClock. Don't know whether
something similar is available on the Raspberry Pi.

UMTS/GPRS/EDGE communication is avaliable, WiFi not in the moment.

Battery management depends on you. I think especally on the Pi this should be
easily possible accesing the IO-pins.

No one inhibits developers to write a tool flushing RAM content to USB memory
stick and putting the RAM/CPU into sleep. If someone has such a tool I would
be very interested to use it for my selfbuild BiKo (BBxM based) portable,
which meanwhile does it job since half a year daily in the train.

Overall building a doityourself portable is such a thing. The result will be
solid and repairable but in general bigger and having much heavier than a
commercial device. But the Raspberry Pi eg could be also mounted very easily
inside cars or boats where you have enough power and enough room.

A good ready RISC OS portable solution is the Pandora if you can live
with the small screen and limited keyboard size. I think the TouchBook would
be the better alternative but don't know whether it is really available.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

[Dave Stratford]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>,
Felicity S. <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

> Spampling wrote:

> > Felicity S. wrote:

> >> Folderol wrote:

> >>> Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

> >> No, that's not how it's done.

> > Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

> No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto


> Fliss

What is it about your posts that stiff my Pluto?

Dave

--
Dave Stratford - ZFCB
http://daves.orpheusweb.co.uk/

[expaddler]

On Nov 11, 10:05 am, Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.889...@rdsqurrl.com>,

>
> What is it about your posts that stiffs my Pluto?

Never heard it described like that before :-) :-) :-)

Allan Bennett

[Richard Torrens (News)]

In article
<d7a352ae-ad96-4ef5...@g8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,

Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Granted, that means that using it as a RISC OS desktop is outside of
> the intended goal, but it's an interesting side effect, and the
> Foundation doesn't seem to mind that people are using their board for
> something.

RISC OS was *very much* a target operating system.

eben Upton was doing work for 4QD when he got inteersted in RISC
processors and circuit design. He was me using RISC OS, which he had known
earlier.

This all led him to designing the R Pi!

[spampling]

In article <52ece47...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,

Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> What is it about your posts that stiff my Pluto?

> Dave

Possibly the taglines :-)

--

Steve Pampling

[Dev]

In article <52ece47...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>,
> Felicity S. <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:
> > Spampling wrote:

> > > Felicity S. wrote:

> > >> Folderol wrote:

> > >>> Surely that should be PRINT DATA REM GOTO

> > >> No, that's not how it's done.

> > > Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

> > No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto


> > Fliss

> What is it about your posts that stiff my Pluto?

Her Message-ID and Pluto's not quite perfect hashing method. Clicking the
Reference button over "Message-ID: <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>"
shows the list of messages in the thread with the open message ticked; and
it also shows a post by Felicity S. as the grandparent post but that is
also ticked. Attempting to click open that grandparent post (which has the
"Message-ID: <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>") only opens the
granddaughter post again.

--
Dev

Om Namah Shivaya | Om Shankaraya namaha

[spampling]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>,
Felicity S. <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

> > Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

> No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto

Tut. Typical Windows education. Case is important. My version gives no
errors.

--

Steve Pampling

[druck]

On 11/11/2012 10:09, Thomas Milius wrote:
> No one inhibits developers to write a tool flushing RAM content to USB memory
> stick and putting the RAM/CPU into sleep. If someone has such a tool I would
> be very interested to use it for my selfbuild BiKo (BBxM based) portable,
> which meanwhile does it job since half a year daily in the train.

It's not as simple as that. The state of a computer consists of both
soft state, i.e. RAM contents and the hardware state, saving and
restoring the just RAM, wont put the hardware state back. To properly
implement sleep/hibernate every device driver had to be written with
support for mirroring the hardware state in RAM, putting it to a low
power state on suspend and writing to back the original state on a resume.

---druck

[Felicity S.]

Spampling wrote:

> Felicity S. wrote:

>>> Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

>> No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto

> Tut.

Double tut yourself.


> Typical Windows education.

I regard that as an insult.


> Case is important.

At last, you get something right!

> My version gives no errors.

Your version is entirely and unequivocally *wrong*.


Fliss

--
She said: I understand that it's a bad idea.
He said: So don't worry about it, and be happy you're a machine.
She said: I'm a machine, I can't be happy.

[Jeremy Nicoll - news posts]

In the context of an Only Connect 'wall', presenting four words in uppercase
only would make the quiz needlessly easy, showing they had an association
that other words in the wall did not have.

Case is not important in all versions of BASIC.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".

[Stuart]

In article <52ece47...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> > > Change that to REM PRINT DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

> > No, that would be Rem Print Data Goto


> > Fliss

> What is it about your posts that stiff my Pluto?

> Dave

I have no problems here.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

[Tony Moore]

On 11 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> ... As great as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI issues,

> misbehaves badly on Windows (which results in total failure when
> running on a secured XP install, and some highly annoying gotchas when
> running on Vista or 7 with UAC enabled or as a non-admin), and
> networking is a huge pain right now due to some issues with the
> current implementation. And, it ends up requiring significant
> knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully understand how to set it up.

That view might well discourage others from trying RPCEmu, so I'll
mention my own, more positive, experience of the program.

Here, RPCEmu v0.8.9 runs without problem on Win7 32bit, emulating RO3.7,
4.39 and 5.19. Admittedly, UAC is disabled - not on account of RPCEmu,
but because I find it a pain, anyway. Networking, including internet
connectivity, works for all three virtual machines. The instructions for
installation, at http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/ , I found adequate.

Tony

[Eric Rucker]

Networking had some bugs that caused it to freeze unless you unplugged the AppleTalk module, on 4.39, I found.

And, UAC being a pain generally indicates that you're either doing something system-wide that should throw up a barrier, or you're doing something wrong. ;) No excuse for RPCEmu to be doing that, either, as on any *nix, it actually creates a ~/.rpcemu directory (for most *nixes) or a ~/Library/Application Support/RPCEmu directory (for OS X).

[Russell Hafter News]

In article
<d9a09ced52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony

Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> [snip]

> > ... As great as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI
> > issues, misbehaves badly on Windows (which results in
> > total failure when running on a secured XP install, and
> > some highly annoying gotchas when running on Vista or 7
> > with UAC enabled or as a non-admin), and networking is
> > a huge pain right now due to some issues with the
> > current implementation. And, it ends up requiring
> > significant knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully
> > understand how to set it up.

Sorry, what is UAC? Is it easily disabled?

> That view might well discourage others from trying
> RPCEmu, so I'll mention my own, more positive, experience
> of the program.

> Here, RPCEmu v0.8.9 runs without problem on Win7 32bit,
> emulating RO3.7, 4.39 and 5.19. Admittedly, UAC is
> disabled - not on account of RPCEmu, but because I find
> it a pain, anyway. Networking, including internet
> connectivity, works for all three virtual machines. The
> instructions for installation, at
> http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/ , I found adequate.

I have 0.8.8, as supplied by ROOL recently.

Installing under both XP and Win 7 Home starter on a netbook
had no issues for me.

My biggest problem so far has been getting it to run in a
small enough window on the netbook's small screen. It seems
necesary to set the display size two or three times before
it will start up again in the wanted size. This was true
under both XP and 7.

The mouse behaviour takes some getting used to.

Maybe it would be better if I were to set it to run 4.02
rather than 5, which is new to me, but then I believe I
would have to copy the 4.02 ROMs from one of my RPCs...

I have not tried networking - after a quick look at the
instructions as refered to above (done before Tony's post) I
just thought "No." I am sticking with using Windows e-mail
software, even though it is a PITA.

My main interest is having access to RISC OS files when away
from the office, (I am not looking for a computing
challenge!) and after some messing around I have got Pluto
to run (so that I can refer to all my stored e-mails), as
well as Pipedream (so that I can refer to all my booking
Confirmations and pricing spreadsheets without having to use
either PD for DOD or Fireworks) and I can copy Pluto and
other documents across to the netbook via the XP machine.

This coming week will see it being used for real, away from
base. By then I shall know better if it is a useful
solution.

Nonetheless, I would say that it has been a less bad
experience than Virtual A5000, which I paid a fair bit of
cash for quite some years ago now...

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

[Felicity S.]

Jeremy wrote:

> Spampling wrote:

>> Felicity S. wrote:

>>>> Change that to REM PRINT IF DATA GOTO and you get no errors.

>>> No, that would be Rem Print If Data Goto

>> Tut. Typical Windows education. Case is important. My version gives
>> no errors.

> In the context of an Only Connect 'wall', presenting four words in
> uppercase only would make the quiz needlessly easy, showing they had
> an association that other words in the wall did not have.

> Case is not important in all versions of BASIC.

While the right case is important for the poetry of Rudyard Kipling,
and artificial lifeforms in science fiction films & TV shows.


Fliss

--
He said: We will fly to the tower in the form of eagles, swifter than the wind!
He said: I'm afraid the Shapeshifter's low on power, not even enough for hawks.
He said: Then we must be crows - blackbirds then... It's tits again, isn't it?

[Tony Moore]

On 12 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, November 12, 2012 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Tony Moore wrote:
> > On 11 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > ... As great as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI issues,
> > > misbehaves badly on Windows (which results in total failure when
> > > running on a secured XP install, and some highly annoying gotchas
> > > when running on Vista or 7 with UAC enabled or as a non-admin),
> > > and networking is a huge pain right now due to some issues with
> > > the current implementation. And, it ends up requiring significant
> > > knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully understand how to set it
> > > up.
> >
> > That view might well discourage others from trying RPCEmu, so I'll
> > mention my own, more positive, experience of the program.
> >
> > Here, RPCEmu v0.8.9 runs without problem on Win7 32bit, emulating
> > RO3.7, 4.39 and 5.19. Admittedly, UAC is disabled - not on account
> > of RPCEmu, but because I find it a pain, anyway. Networking,
> > including internet connectivity, works for all three virtual
> > machines. The instructions for installation, at
> > http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/ , I found adequate.
>

> Networking had some bugs that caused it to freeze unless you unplugged
> the AppleTalk module, on 4.39, I found.

Yes, you're quite right. I thought that this was mentioned in the user
guide, but now I can't find it.

> And, UAC being a pain generally indicates that you're either doing
> something system-wide that should throw up a barrier, or you're doing
> something wrong. ;)

Quite likely - I just couldn't be bothered with it!

Tony

[Tony Moore]

On 12 Nov 2012, Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:

> In article <d9a09ced52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 11 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > ... As great as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI issues,
> > > misbehaves badly on Windows (which results in total failure when
> > > running on a secured XP install, and some highly annoying gotchas
> > > when running on Vista or 7 with UAC enabled or as a non-admin),
> > > and networking is a huge pain right now due to some issues with
> > > the current implementation. And, it ends up requiring significant
> > > knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully understand how to set it
> > > up.
>
> Sorry, what is UAC? Is it easily disabled?

User Account Control. Hold down the Windows key and press F1, to open
the Help and Support window, then search for 'uac'. In Win7, item 1
tells what it is, and item 2 tells how to activate/deactivate it.

> > That view might well discourage others from trying RPCEmu, so I'll
> > mention my own, more positive, experience of the program.
>
> > Here, RPCEmu v0.8.9 runs without problem on Win7 32bit, emulating
> > RO3.7, 4.39 and 5.19. Admittedly, UAC is disabled - not on account
> > of RPCEmu, but because I find it a pain, anyway. Networking,
> > including internet connectivity, works for all three virtual
> > machines. The instructions for installation, at
> > http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/ , I found adequate.
>
> I have 0.8.8, as supplied by ROOL recently.

0.8.9 is available from the link above.

> Installing under both XP and Win 7 Home starter on a netbook had no
> issues for me.
>
> My biggest problem so far has been getting it to run in a small enough
> window on the netbook's small screen. It seems necesary to set the
> display size two or three times before it will start up again in the
> wanted size. This was true under both XP and 7.

You need to set the display via Configure > Screen. I don't know what
resolutions are available in the ROOL distribution, but if none fits
your screen you can add an MDF to !Boot.Resources.Configure.Monitors.
My installation, on an HP laptop has a 1280x760x60Hz resolution.

> The mouse behaviour takes some getting used to.

The mouse behaviour can be configured via the drop-down Settings menu
(below the title-bar). For me 'Follow host mouse' is fine, and results
in 'normal' behaviour, using a USB cordless optical mouse.

> Maybe it would be better if I were to set it to run 4.02 rather than
> 5, which is new to me, but then I believe I would have to copy the
> 4.02 ROMs from one of my RPCs...

http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/manual/romimage.html tells how to do this.

> I have not tried networking - after a quick look at the instructions
> as refered to above (done before Tony's post) I just thought "No."

One step at a time - it's easier than it looks!

> I am sticking with using Windows e-mail software, even though it is a
> PITA.
>
> My main interest is having access to RISC OS files when away from the
> office, (I am not looking for a computing challenge!) and after some
> messing around I have got Pluto to run (so that I can refer to all my
> stored e-mails), as well as Pipedream (so that I can refer to all my
> booking Confirmations and pricing spreadsheets without having to use
> either PD for DOD or Fireworks) and I can copy Pluto and other
> documents across to the netbook via the XP machine.
>
> This coming week will see it being used for real, away from base. By
> then I shall know better if it is a useful solution.

I mirror my 'real' RPC to RPCEmu so that I can switch to RPCEmu if/when
the RPC is indisposed, which sometimes happens.

Tony

[David Holden]

On 12-Nov-2012, Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:

> Maybe it would be better if I were to set it to run 4.02
> rather than 5, which is new to me, but then I believe I
> would have to copy the 4.02 ROMs from one of my RPCs...

Much better. It would also let you run a lot more software as it will run
both 32 bit and 26 bit instead of only newer 32 bit.

You can get the complete hard disc install for RPCemu with RO 4 ROMs from
RISCOS Ltd for a few pounds which will save you a lot of hassle.

--
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>

[Dave Wisnia at home]

In message <a15e5aeb5...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>
John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> charles wrote

>>> How can you use RISC OS for 'serious' stuff? That possibility disappeared
>>> over a decade ago.

> My wife has produced the Parish magazine on a RISC PC every month
> since 1996. It is funded by graphic adverts prduced on ArtWorks and
> set out using Publisher+.

> I use my Iyonix for Web development for the parish Council. All email
> is on RISC OS since I bought shares in Argonet in 199?.

I run my website business with RISC OS. Very fast - very successful.
Couldn't do without it.


--
With very best wishes
Dave Wisnia

[Chris Hughes]

In message <52ed9fae...@walkingingermany.invalid>

Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:

> In article
> <d9a09ced52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 11 Nov 2012, Eric Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> [snip]

>>> ... As great as RPCEmu is, it does have some major UI
>>> issues, misbehaves badly on Windows (which results in
>>> total failure when running on a secured XP install, and
>>> some highly annoying gotchas when running on Vista or 7
>>> with UAC enabled or as a non-admin), and networking is
>>> a huge pain right now due to some issues with the
>>> current implementation. And, it ends up requiring
>>> significant knowledge of how RISC OS works to fully
>>> understand how to set it up.

> Sorry, what is UAC? Is it easily disabled?

User Access Control, its on Vista/Win 7 and 8, its part of the
security on Vista it was either on or off, on Win 7 onwards you can
have different levels of action.

Its intended to ensure you have agreed to intsall or run various EXE
programs etc to prevent unwanted programs running and involves ONE
extra click for the sake of extra security to help prevent rogue
programs operating on your PC.


[snip]



--
Chris Hughes

[Stuart]

In article <ageajo...@mid.individual.net>,

David Holden <Spa...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> Much better. It would also let you run a lot more software as it will run
> both 32 bit and 26 bit instead of only newer 32 bit.

> You can get the complete hard disc install for RPCemu with RO 4 ROMs from
> RISCOS Ltd for a few pounds which will save you a lot of hassle.

Yes, I have a copy of that but I'm unsure what to do with it.

I bought one of the memory stick versions of RPCEmu from ROOL when they
were first available and was using it on an early Asus EeePC last holiday.
I haven't used it since but was aware of software limitations.

[spampling]

In article <fIxm7.2485$lk6.8...@rdsqurrl.com>,
Felicity S. <Fl...@rdsqurrl.com> wrote:

> Jeremy wrote:


> > Case is not important in all versions of BASIC.

> While the right case is important for the poetry of Rudyard Kipling,
> and artificial lifeforms in science fiction films & TV shows.

Being picky what Jeremy should have written is that "Case is not always
important in different versions of BASIC"
VB being a case in point where case and spaces can cause problems.

Case in English, and I think Kipling counts, helps. Artificial lifeforms
and science fiction, convince me.


> Fliss

--

Steve Pampling

[spampling]

In article <e2fbd4df-76b2-4293...@googlegroups.com>, Eric

Rucker <bhto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Networking had some bugs that caused it to freeze unless you unplugged
> the AppleTalk module, on 4.39, I found.

Appletalk is an abortion anyway. I really don't know why ROL added that.

--

Steve Pampling