it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
Latin.
The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
by e-mail.
On 1 Aug 2012 Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavariaso...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> Hi all,
> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
> Latin.
> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
> by e-mail.
> Any ideas?
You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
With best wishes,
Peter.
-- Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
On 1 Aug 2012 Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2012 Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavariaso...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> it was happen two times now: I worked on something, TechWriter hung for
>> a moment, and then appeared a short text in Latin. I cannot read it and
>> also don't know from where it came. It was not in the clip board and I
>> was also offline at the time of writing. Also, I'm not in relation with
>> Latin.
>> The Latin textes are questions and remarks, I think. I cannot understand
>> it properly and also haven't any clue from where it came.
>> I don't like to post the textes here but if you ask I may send it to you
>> by e-mail.
>> Any ideas?
> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
With best wishes,
Peter.
-- Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > menu entry!
> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> shift-control-P.
I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
here.
The menu data reads "Insert Lorem ipsum,390,}68 CS-O", I
assume that CS-O is menuese for Shift-control-O.
In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
Shift-control-letterkey does not.
I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
wrong?
In article <52b882723asee....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
> Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> > > menu entry!
> > Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> > shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> here.
Works here with version 9.01. What version have you got?
On 1 Aug 2012 Alan Calder <alan_cal...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b882723asee....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
>> Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
>>>> menu entry!
>>> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
>>> shift-control-P.
>> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
>> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
>> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
>> here.
> Works here with version 9.01. What version have you got?
But do other people think this could be the cause of the OP's problem?
With best wishes,
Peter.
-- Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
In article <52b882c43balan_cal...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
<alan_cal...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b882723asee....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem
> > > > Ipsum menu entry!
> > > Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> > > shift-control-P.
> > I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting
> > Lorem Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu
> > entries work, neither Shift-control-O nor
> > shift-control-P do anything here.
> Works here with version 9.01. What version have you got?
8.82. But the menu listings show the Shift-control- options,
so they should work. There are some Shift-control- options
in EW 4.00...
> In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter
> Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
>>> menu entry!
>> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
>> shift-control-P.
> I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting Lorem
> Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu entries work,
> neither Shift-control-O nor shift-control-P do anything
> here. [...]
> In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
> Shift-control-letterkey does not.
> I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some of
> its effects very annoying), but I would not have thought
> that Shift-control-is governed by that module, or am I
> wrong?
Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a module it requires? Then you should not be surprised that certain things are not working as expected. I am not aware of any negative user-observable effects of the UKey module, so I cannot understand why you would want to prevent it from being loaded.
And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of UKey is to provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
-- Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/ RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <52b882723asee....@walkingingermany.invalid>
> Russell Hafter News
> <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum
> >>> menu entry!
> >> Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or
> >> shift-control-P.
> > I do not have the slightest interest in ever inserting
> > Lorem Ipsum, but I am puzzled that while the menu
> > entries work, neither Shift-control-O nor
> > shift-control-P do anything here. [...]
> > In fact, I find that while Shift-control-Fkey works,
> > Shift-control-letterkey does not.
> > I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some
> > of its effects very annoying), but I would not have
> > thought that Shift-control-is governed by that module,
> > or am I wrong?
> Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a
> module it requires? Then you should not be surprised that
> certain things are not working as expected. I am not
> aware of any negative user-observable effects of the UKey
> module, so I cannot understand why you would want to
> prevent it from being loaded.
I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99% certain
that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
want to do.
Looking back at my older versions of EW, it seems to have
been introduced in EW 6.05+, from 1999.
I do remember taking up the matter of some strange behaviour
of the numeric keypad with Mike Glover, who told me that it
was the UKey module and also told me how to stop it
happening - ie not loading it in the first place.
> And yes, if I remember correctly, one of the purposes of
> UKey is to provide Ctrl+Shift+letter shortcuts.
Fair enough, I was simply curious. Not having access to it
is no hardship! I think that the only Ctrl+Shift+keypress I
actually ever use is with F12 to shut a machine down.
> In article <21d3afb852.mar...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
> Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>> In message <52b882723asee....@walkingingermany.invalid>
>> Russell Hafter News
>>> I deliberately do not run the UKey module (I find some
>>> of its effects very annoying), but I would not have
>>> thought that Shift-control-is governed by that module,
>>> or am I wrong?
>> Do you mean that you modified EasiWriter not load a
>> module it requires? Then you should not be surprised that
>> certain things are not working as expected. I am not
>> aware of any negative user-observable effects of the UKey
>> module, so I cannot understand why you would want to
>> prevent it from being loaded.
> I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99% certain
> that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour of the
> numeric keypad, which is definitely not something I would
> want to do.
In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the behaviour of the numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter resource files).
-- Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/ RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In message <e8fbe4b852.A...@bavariasound.chiemgau-net.de>
Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavariaso...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> In message <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
It is very useful to quickly fill a column or page with text to test a page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old printers' tradition.
See "853Guide", page 4.
-- Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/ RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <f80eeab852.mar...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> > I do not remember the details anymore, but I am 99%
> > certain that it modifies, in particular, the behaviour
> > of the numeric keypad, which is definitely not
> > something I would want to do.
> In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the
> behaviour of the numeric keypad, but it allows
> applications to distinguish between main keyboard and
> keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but
> an EasiWriter feature (which you could switch off by
> modifying some EasiWriter resource files).
But modifying resources files is a lot more complex than
just not loading the module in the first place.
It is annoying enough to have to edit the Resources file
date format options after each upgrade. Commenting out the
UKey loading instruction is far simpler.
As I said, I was simply curious about the Shift-Ctrl
options. They (and most keyboard shortcuts) are not
something that I actually use.
But having the numeric keypad keys do something other than
what they say on the key would be a major annoyance.
On 2 Aug 2012 Martin Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <e8fbe4b852.A...@bavariasound.chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavariaso...@chiemgau-net.de>
> wrote:
>> In message <e53777b852.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You must have clicked accidentally on the Lorem Ipsum menu entry!
>>>Or did one of its shortcuts: Shift-control-O or shift-control-P.
>> Thanks for the answer. I never noticed this entry before. I cannot find
>> any information in the TechWriter manual, too. What is the sense of it?
> It is very useful to quickly fill a column or page with text to test a
> page layout or a test. Using pseudo-Latin "Lorem ipsum" text is an old
> printers' tradition.
> See "853Guide", page 4.
On 2 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<52b8ed6552see....@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <f80eeab852.mar...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner
> <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> > In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the behaviour of the
> > numeric keypad, but it allows applications to distinguish between main
> > keyboard and keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some extra
> > characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's fault but an EasiWriter
> > feature (which you could switch off by modifying some EasiWriter
> > resource files).
> But modifying resources files is a lot more complex than just not loading
> the module in the first place.
UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a lot of
applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier than
it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour in other
places too.
Fryatt <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 2 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
> <52b8ed6552see....@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> > In article <f80eeab852.mar...@bach.planiverse.com>,
> > Martin Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> > > In a sense, yes. UKey does not directly modify the
> > > behaviour of the numeric keypad, but it allows
> > > applications to distinguish between main keyboard and
> > > keypad keys and EasiWriter uses that to offer some
> > > extra characters from the keypad. This is not UKey's
> > > fault but an EasiWriter feature (which you could
> > > switch off by modifying some EasiWriter resource
> > > files).
> > But modifying resources files is a lot more complex
> > than just not loading the module in the first place.
> UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a
> lot of applications because it makes understanding
> keyboard input much easier than it is by default. > Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour in other
> places too.
Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never
heard of it anywhere else.
2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no
idea what you refer to here.
3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW
cause problems elsewhere?
For me, the problems are if pressing '1' does not produce 1
and pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
next line.
In article <52b9a37922see....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the next line.
I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter] should do just that -
enter some data!
When did you last use a web form?
The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is irrelevant.
John
-- John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
On 3 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<52b9a37922see....@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> In article <mpro.m871p002j4tkg022e.n...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used by a lot of
> > applications because it makes understanding keyboard input much easier
> > than it is by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky behaviour
> > in other places too.
> Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
> 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have never heard of it
> anywhere else.
It's also supplied with and used by other applications. DeepKeys is an
(incompatible) alternative, which a different set of apps use.
> 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have no idea what you
> refer to here.
The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of codes and make it possible to do stuff
like tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of EW cause problems
> elsewhere?
Because unless you edit every UKey client's !Run file, it will probably be
loaded anyway. And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up by
not getting the key codes that they expect.
You're effectively meddling with a low-level module, which is never a good
idea.
Fryatt <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 3 Aug, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
> <52b9a37922see....@walkingingermany.invalid>:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m871p002j4tkg022e.n...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > > UKey (along with it's DeepKeys stunt-double) is used
> > > by a lot of applications because it makes
> > > understanding keyboard input much easier than it is
> > > by default. Avoiding it is likely to cause quirky
> > > behaviour in other places too.
> > Sorry Steve, you have *completely* lost me there!
> > 1. AFAIK, UKey is something supplied with EW. I have
> > never heard of it anywhere else.
> It's also supplied with and used by other applications.
> DeepKeys is an (incompatible) alternative, which a
> different set of apps use.
Which applications?
I am not aware of any here.
> > 2. Understanding keyboard input? Unfortunately I have
> > no idea what you refer to here.
> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
application that I have that requires it.
Personally, I prefer to use the mouse for actions rather
than keyboard short cuts, and I really only know and use the
most obvious ones, plus the ATL-; and ALT-[ etc for accented
characters
> > 3. How does not loading something supplied as part of
> > EW cause problems elsewhere?
> Because unless you edit every UKey client's !Run file, it
> will probably be loaded anyway.
It is only EW that could load it, and it does not
> And if you do stop it, other apps will also be tripped up
> by not getting the key codes that they expect.
Again, which other apps?
> You're effectively meddling with a low-level module,
> which is never a good idea.
But it is not part of the machine OS. EW ran without it for
years, and continues to do so.
It is supplied with EW and remains within the EW folder.
On 4 Aug 2012 Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <mpro.m878xu06lm3j4022e.n...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> Fryatt <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp are
>> often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the range of
>> codes and make it possible to do stuff like tell Ctrl-C
>> and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of any
> application that I have that requires it.
StrongED uses control-C for a local copy, and shift-control-C for copying to the global clipboard.
With best wishes,
Peter.
-- Peter \ / zfc Ta \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
In article <52b9a4283dUCE...@tiscali.co.uk>,
John Williams (News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52b9a37922see....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > pressing 'Enter' does anything other than move to the
> > next line.
> I think you mean pressing [Return] - pressing [Enter]
> should do just that - enter some data!
I am referring to the key marked 'Enter' on the numeric
keypad.
I find it easier to find than the key marked 'Return'.
> When did you last use a web form?
Under RISC OS? I cannot remember. Years probably.
> The fact that these are equivalent under RISC OS is
> irrelevant.
Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 4 Aug 2012 Russell Hafter News
> <see....@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <mpro.m878xu06lm3j4022e.n...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <n...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> The key codes that applications receive from the Wimp
> >> are often ambiguous. UKey and DeepKeys extend the
> >> range of codes and make it possible to do stuff like
> >> tell Ctrl-C and Shift-Ctrl-C apart.
> > I cannot imagine a scenario where I would have to use
> > Shift-Ctrl-C without any alternative. I am not aware of
> > any application that I have that requires it.
> StrongED uses control-C for a local copy, and
> shift-control-C for copying to the global clipboard.
In article <52b9facb2fchrisjohnson+n...@spamcop.net>, Chris
Johnson <chrisjohnson+n...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <52b9e58446see....@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see....@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > Why? They do the same thing.
> Depends on the application - eg OPro uses the Enter key
> for 'new page' while the Return key is the normal 'new
> para'.
Like a Macintosh. It seemed to be standard on all Macs when
I was using them in the 1990s, presumably part of the design
of the system.
As both UKey and OPro are written by David Pilling it is
hardly surprising that he would include UKey and then,
perhaps, to use it to create this effect.
But as I have no use for OPro, it makes no difference to me,
and it is my machines I am talking about.
IIRC, this was one of the features that EW introduced with
v6.05+, when it started to use UKey. Again, IIRc, it used to
drive me mad, since RISC OS does not (did not) behave like a
Mac.
IMHO, I do not think that apps should tamper with the
keyboard without making the effects easily user
configurable.
