Development Build 5.19 Tungsten

[Tim Hill]

Would have posted this to ROOL forum if it was working and not plagued by
"This web page is not available". Is it creaking under that huge jumble
of forum entries? ;-)

Unfortunately I find recent versions of 5.19 unusable.

I have an Iyonix with 5.18 in firmware. I have been running an old
version of 5.19 (it says 21 Feb 12) as a softload since it was released
without a problem and thought it was about time I tried a later version.
So I downloaded and tried versions dated 14 May and 19 May.
Unfortunately, in both cases, it is not going well (shan't be using
either) and for the same reasons in both cases.

Firstly, my configured monitor definition and desktop settings are
ignored. Old-fashioned system fonts at 800x600 on an HD monitor is not a
good look.

Secondly, there are the following two errors at boot:
<PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites and
<Theme$Path>.Apps.Themes.!Sprites not found.

This is correct. Neither <PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites nor
<Theme$Path>.Apps exists. (The latter is not present in 'Steel'.)

When the thing does start (I even tried dummy sprite files) I have tried
my old MDF but the OS no longer likes it and although it works (!!!) I
get complaints about the colour depth and resolution being not
understood. Even though they obviously are!!!!!!

So a question:

Are there non-optional dependencies (new PCA, new Themes, new MDFs) for
RISC OS 5.19 of which I should be made aware?

--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/

[Tony Moore]

On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> I have an Iyonix with 5.18 in firmware. I have been running an old
> version of 5.19 (it says 21 Feb 12) as a softload since it was
> released without a problem and thought it was about time I tried a
> later version. So I downloaded and tried versions dated 14 May and 19
> May. Unfortunately, in both cases, it is not going well (shan't be
> using either) and for the same reasons in both cases.

[snip problems]

You'll need to upgrade the boot sequence, which is within HardDisc4 at
http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/other-zipfiles

Tony

[Tim Hill]

In article <daa4ca4e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony Moore

Yep, thought someone may say that. Thanks Tony.

[Tim Hill]

In article <534ecc...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk>
wrote:

> In article <daa4ca4e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony Moore
> <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> > [snip]

> > > I have an Iyonix with 5.18 in firmware. I have been running an old
> > > version of 5.19 (it says 21 Feb 12) as a softload since it was
> > > released without a problem and thought it was about time I tried a
> > > later version. So I downloaded and tried versions dated 14 May and
> > > 19 May. Unfortunately, in both cases, it is not going well (shan't
> > > be using either) and for the same reasons in both cases.

> > [snip problems]

> > You'll need to upgrade the boot sequence, which is within HardDisc4
> > at http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/other-zipfiles

> Yep, thought someone may say that. Thanks Tony.

...and as I suspected from a manual inspection, it hasn't helped (because
it doesn't add the missing bits?).

It has added another error though.

Toolbox something.

FFS. :-(

I don't have time to sort out this mess.

back to backup !Boot and 5.18

[Russell Hafter News]

In article <534ec5...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill

<t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> Old-fashioned system fonts at 800x600 on an HD monitor is
> not a good look.

Not using an HD monitor, just a large (20"??) ordinary one
at 1280 x 1024.

I very much prefer the look of the system font to Trinity or
Homerton, because, as far as I can tell, these fonts are not
monospaced. I like small icons, which have the names to the
side, meaning I have columns of letters. If these do not
form neat columns of letters, it looks all wrong, IMHO.

Is there a decent monospaced font out there I could try (NOT
Corpus)??

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

[John Williams (News)]

In article <534eeeab...@walkingingermany.invalid>,

Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:

> Is there a decent monospaced font out there I could try (NOT
> Corpus)??

I refer you to my replacement System font - which also, incidentally, shows
up hard spaces, to be found at:

http://irene.williams.free.fr/software/infant.htm

or, at least, my version does. Apply to me direct if not.

John

--
John Williams, now back in the UK - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/

[Tony Moore]

On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <534ecc...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <daa4ca4e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> > > You'll need to upgrade the boot sequence, which is within
> > > HardDisc4 at
> > > http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/other-zipfiles
>
> > Yep, thought someone may say that. Thanks Tony.
>
> ...and as I suspected from a manual inspection, it hasn't helped
> (because it doesn't add the missing bits?).
>
> It has added another error though.

Did you use Configure > Boot > Install > Merge?

Tony

[SG nws]

Russell Hafter News wrote:
> I very much prefer the look of the system font to Trinity or Homerton

[...]
I wish that developers would remember this when designing templates.
Far too often, the text does not fit!

--
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

[charles]

In article <534eeeab...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:

> In article <534ec5...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> > Old-fashioned system fonts at 800x600 on an HD monitor is
> > not a good look.

> Not using an HD monitor, just a large (20"??) ordinary one
> at 1280 x 1024.

> I very much prefer the look of the system font to Trinity or
> Homerton, because, as far as I can tell, these fonts are not
> monospaced. I like small icons, which have the names to the
> side, meaning I have columns of letters. If these do not
> form neat columns of letters, it looks all wrong, IMHO.

> Is there a decent monospaced font out there I could try (NOT
> Corpus)??

EFF have a few.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Tim Hill]

In article <c0c6f34e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony Moore

<old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <534ecc...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> > <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <daa4ca4e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> [snip]

> > > > You'll need to upgrade the boot sequence, which is within
> > > > HardDisc4 at
> > > > http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/other-zipfiles
> >
> > > Yep, thought someone may say that. Thanks Tony.
> >
> > ...and as I suspected from a manual inspection, it hasn't helped
> > (because it doesn't add the missing bits?).
> >
> > It has added another error though.

> Did you use Configure > Boot > Install > Merge?

There's another way? ;-)

[Tony Moore]

On 21 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <c0c6f34e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <534ecc...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> > > <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > In article <daa4ca4e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,
> > > > Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > > > You'll need to upgrade the boot sequence, which is within
> > > > > HardDisc4 at
> > > > > http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/other-zipfiles
> > >
> > > > Yep, thought someone may say that. Thanks Tony.
> > >
> > > ...and as I suspected from a manual inspection, it hasn't helped
> > > (because it doesn't add the missing bits?).
> > >
> > > It has added another error though.
>
> > Did you use Configure > Boot > Install > Merge?
>
> There's another way? ;-)

Yes. You could replace the old !Boot with the new one, or drop the new
!Boot over the old one. Obviously, neither way is to be recommended!

Your 'missing bits' presumably refers to your previous statement:

> Secondly, there are the following two errors at boot:
> <PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites and
> <Theme$Path>.Apps.Themes.!Sprites not found.
>
> This is correct. Neither <PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites nor
> <Theme$Path>.Apps exists. (The latter is not present in 'Steel'.)

In http://compgroups.net/comp.sys.acorn.misc/pca-resources/615713 Adam
Richardson said that

PCA resources are required by Variation. Specifically, !PCARes needs
to be "filer_boot"ed before !Variation is "Filer_Boot"ed. I suspect
!Variation is in your boot sequence but !PCARes isn't (or is booted
after Variation.

In RO 5.19, Resources.!ThemeDefs sets ThemeDefs$Path, but Locate shows
that Theme$Path is nowhere to be found. Are you using a third-party
theme manager?

Tony

[Russell Hafter News]

In article <534ef083...@tiscali.co.uk>, John Williams

(News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <534eeeab...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:

> > Is there a decent monospaced font out there I could try
> > (NOT Corpus)??

> I refer you to my replacement System font - which also,
> incidentally, shows up hard spaces, to be found at:

> http://irene.williams.free.fr/software/infant.htm

> or, at least, my version does. Apply to me direct if not.

Thanks, but no thanks.

As you say, the style is 'infant', which does not suit
**me**.

[Russell Hafter News]

In article <534eff47...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > Is there a decent monospaced font out there I could try
> > (NOT Corpus)??

> EFF have a few.

Thanks, but I do not have any problems (certainly none that
would make me want to spend any money!) with using the
system font - I quite like it in its place, and the desktop
is probably where it is most suitable.

[John Rye]

Hello All

In article <904b4f4f53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,

Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <c0c6f34e53.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 20 May 2013, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

BIG SNIP

> Your 'missing bits' presumably refers to your previous statement:

> > Secondly, there are the following two errors at boot:
> > <PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites and
> > <Theme$Path>.Apps.Themes.!Sprites not found.
> >
> > This is correct. Neither <PCAResources$Dir>.!Sprites nor
> > <Theme$Path>.Apps exists. (The latter is not present in 'Steel'.)

> In http://compgroups.net/comp.sys.acorn.misc/pca-resources/615713 Adam
> Richardson said that

> PCA resources are required by Variation. Specifically, !PCARes needs
> to be "filer_boot"ed before !Variation is "Filer_Boot"ed. I suspect
> !Variation is in your boot sequence but !PCARes isn't (or is booted
> after Variation.

> In RO 5.19, Resources.!ThemeDefs sets ThemeDefs$Path, but Locate shows
> that Theme$Path is nowhere to be found. Are you using a third-party
> theme manager?

> Tony

PCAresources is also used for Composition, and PCApaint. It has never had a
!Sprites file and has run quite happily on the Risc OS 4 family and Select
family. I never had an Iyonix , so I do not know about earlier incarnations
of Risc OS 5, but my Raspberry Pi is also complaining about this (Cured by
reating a !Sprites file), so it looks as though the latest operating system
is checking for the presence of a !Sprites file even though one is sometimes
not necessary for the operation of thr programme.

John

--
John Rye
Hadleigh IPSWICH England
<http://www.ryepad.plus.com>
---< Using RISC OS Six on an Acorn StrongArm RiscPC and under VARPC >---

[Chris Johnson]

In article <534f590...@ryepad.plus.com>,

John Rye <jo...@ryepad.plus.com> wrote:
> so it looks as though the latest operating system is checking for
> the presence of a !Sprites file even though one is sometimes not
> necessary for the operation of thr programme.

The change was first made a few months back now.

--
Chris Johnson

[Chris Hughes]

In message <534f5f2765chr...@spamcop.net>

Why has this change been made if it's goes to break things. It's not
very good PR for the new users say on a Pi, etc..

--
Chris Hughes

[Tim Hill]

In article <534f5f2765chr...@spamcop.net>, Chris Johnson

Okay. Thanks. Apart from the fact that !Sprite files were never intended
to be mandatory (!) I am finding some solutions, I hope.

Firstly, the MDF which has been ignored as it is out of range I recall
downloading from somewhere when I bought an HD monitor (1920 x 1080) and
its notes mention that MakeModes complains about it. So I have searched
the latest boot for a supplied MDF giving that resolution at 60Hz. There
is only one, for an HP monitor. It works with my AOC (at least, it works
at HD) on Iyonix under RISC OS 5.18 and very early 5.19. Phew.

I discover that !Themes has moved well past my current version of 1.08
(2008) to 1.21 and the later version seems to contain the 'missing' file,
as far as I can see. http://www.lym.iconbar.com/themes.htm
I wonder why I have never picked up on any announcements about that?

I have created a 34� !pcares sprite in a !pcares.!Sprite file. (Odd that
!IntelDMA doesn't have a !Sprites file but this didn't generate an error
(yet?).

That should have dealt with the objections, now to see if that overcomes
my problems with the latest 5.19

(To be continued)

[Chris Gransden]

In article <ecf8634f...@o2.co.uk>,

Previously the 'Iconsprites' command was broken in that it would sliently
ignore the fact that the !Sprites file was missing. Now it gives an error.
If the !Sprites file is not present just replace the 'Iconsprites' command in
the !Boot/!Run file with similar to the following or just comment it out if
it's not needed.

IfThere <Example$Dir>.!Sprites then Iconsprites <Example$Dir>.!Sprites

Chris.

[Tim Hill]

In article <534f68...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk>
wrote:

[Snip]

> That should have dealt with the objections, now to see if that
> overcomes my problems with the latest 5.19

> (To be continued)

No. Though the error messages have disappeared, the latest 5.19 refuses
to boot into either of the 1920 x 1080 (16m cols 60Hz) MDFs I have tried.
Instead it's 800x600 and System font buggy-looking yuk. Though I can
'Try' either of the 1920x1080x16mx60Hz MDFs, this appears:
"Can't save screen mode because resolution or colours is unknown."
I can carry on displaying this but not save it? WTF?

Selecting a desktop font caused a crash with a grey square with a
squiggle, rather than the error message you may expect.

Looks as though I need to play with ModeFiles again. It's been a while...

[druck]

On 21/05/2013 15:26, John Rye wrote:
> PCAresources is also used for Composition, and PCApaint. It has never had a
> !Sprites file and has run quite happily on the Risc OS 4 family and Select
> family. I never had an Iyonix , so I do not know about earlier incarnations
> of Risc OS 5, but my Raspberry Pi is also complaining about this (Cured by
> reating a !Sprites file), so it looks as though the latest operating system
> is checking for the presence of a !Sprites file even though one is sometimes
> not necessary for the operation of thr programme.

It is necessary if the !Boot or !Run contains an IconSprites command, as
if there is no !Sprites and error will occur. I've seen this several
times recently, and there is no excuse for the spurious use of the command.

---druck

[Tim Hill]

In article <534f6d...@invalid.org.uk>,

Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Looks as though I need to play with ModeFiles again. It's been a
> while...

I meant MakeModes, of course.

[Tim Hill]

In article <534f7a...@invalid.org.uk>,

Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <534f6d...@invalid.org.uk>,
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> [Snip]

> > Looks as though I need to play with ModeFiles again. It's been a
> > while...

> I meant MakeModes, of course.

"Abort on Data Transfer" if I try to create a new one. :-(

[Alex Macfarlane Smith]

On 21/05/2013 21:47, Tim Hill wrote:
> In article <534f7a...@invalid.org.uk>,
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>> In article <534f6d...@invalid.org.uk>,
>> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> [Snip]
>
>>> Looks as though I need to play with ModeFiles again. It's been a
>>> while...
>
>> I meant MakeModes, of course.
>
> "Abort on Data Transfer" if I try to create a new one. :-(
>

You could maybe try CustomRPC from http://www.armware.dk/files/ - I seem
to remember I migrated to this when I found MakeModes unreliable :)

Alex.

[Martin Wuerthner]

Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <534f5f2765chr...@spamcop.net>, Chris Johnson
> <chrisjoh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > In article <534f590...@ryepad.plus.com>, John Rye
> > <jo...@ryepad.plus.com> wrote:
> > > so it looks as though the latest operating system is checking for the
> > > presence of a !Sprites file even though one is sometimes not necessary
> > > for the operation of thr programme.
>
> > The change was first made a few months back now.
>
> Okay. Thanks. Apart from the fact that !Sprite files were never intended
> to be mandatory (!) I am finding some solutions, I hope.

!Sprites files are not mandatory after this change either. A change to that
effect would not be a good idea because it would break valid programs. What
has changed is that if a program issues an *IconSprites command to load a
!Sprites file, then that !Sprites file must be there, or else an error is
reported. This change may also break existing programs, but only programs
that were broken in the first place.

--
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/

------- RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing --------

[Tim Hill]

In article <534f7b...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk>

wrote:
> In article <534f7a...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <534f6d...@invalid.org.uk>, Tim Hill
> > <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> > [Snip]

> > > Looks as though I need to play with ModeFiles again. It's been a
> > > while...

> > I meant MakeModes, of course.

> "Abort on Data Transfer" if I try to create a new one. :-(

Still fiddling with trying to create an HD MDF the latest 5.19 is happy
with but it does occur to me that the latest 5.19 should work with the
MDFs included in the latest !Boot, including the HP one, which it seems
to hate.

Ooh. A new dev version today...

[Tim Hill]

In article <mpro.mn71hm000l...@mw-software.com>, Martin

Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> > In article <534f5f2765chr...@spamcop.net>, Chris Johnson
> > <chrisjoh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > In article <534f590...@ryepad.plus.com>, John Rye
> > > <jo...@ryepad.plus.com> wrote:
> > > > so it looks as though the latest operating system is checking for
> > > > the presence of a !Sprites file even though one is sometimes not
> > > > necessary for the operation of thr programme.
> >
> > > The change was first made a few months back now.
> >
> > Okay. Thanks. Apart from the fact that !Sprite files were never
> > intended to be mandatory (!) I am finding some solutions, I hope.

> !Sprites files are not mandatory after this change either. A change to
> that effect would not be a good idea because it would break valid
> programs. What has changed is that if a program issues an *IconSprites
> command to load a !Sprites file, then that !Sprites file must be there,
> or else an error is reported. This change may also break existing
> programs, but only programs that were broken in the first place.

Sorry, in the absence of that explanation, that was not the change I
thought had been made. Thanks. I also discovered that when I saw there
was another app sans !Sprites in Resources and I investigated why.

[Tim Hill]

In article <519c7921$0$32116$1472...@news.sunsite.dk>, Alex Macfarlane

I may try that but have found an old copy of 0.27 which seems to work
without aborts. It doesn't seem to create HD modes though and my time on
this has expired for now.

[Chris Johnson]

In article <534f6d...@invalid.org.uk>,

Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> the latest 5.19 refuses to boot into either of the 1920 x 1080 (16m
> cols 60Hz) MDFs I have tried.

This one works on my Acer with the latest v. 5.19 OS. Is it similar
to the one you are using?

# 1920 x 1080 (60Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1920 x 1080
x_res:1920
y_res:1080
pixel_rate:144000
h_timings:32,80,0,1920,0,102
v_timings:0,26,0,1080,0,20
sync_pol:1
endmode

--
Chris Johnson

[Tim Hill]

In article <534fda9d58chr...@spamcop.net>,

That has a lower pixel-rate. I will try it...

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I have even tried playing around with it
in MakeModes to get "Timings OKAY" but to no avail. A desktop but a
squashed one in the wrong place.

[spampling]

In article <534f590...@ryepad.plus.com>, John Rye
<jo...@ryepad.plus.com> wrote:

> PCAresources is also used for Composition, and PCApaint. It has never
> had a !Sprites file and has run quite happily on the Risc OS 4 family
> and Select family.

The bug that silently ignored the erroneous iconsprites applications
startup has existed for a long time.
When the bug is that the OS doesn't tell you about a small mistake it tends
to get overlooked.

> I never had an Iyonix , so I do not know about
> earlier incarnations of Risc OS 5, but my Raspberry Pi is also
> complaining about this (Cured by reating a !Sprites file), so it looks
> as though the latest operating system is checking for the presence of a
> !Sprites file even though one is sometimes not necessary for the
> operation of thr programme.

Basically, the programmer of the applications generating an error made a
mistake putting the iconsprites line in when there was no icon to be
loaded.
Now the OS tells you that the error exists. A simple | character at the
start of the iconsprites line (or removal of it) will cure the error.
Adding an appropriate sprite to embellish the application will also cure
the error.

Errors should never be ignored.

--

Steve Pampling