A9 home
A.Weston
Well done Stuart Tyrell and Simtec is what I say!
--
Dr.A.Weston
Staffordshire, UK of GB&NI.
John Cartmell
A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable ... all
true. ;-)
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
charles
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>,
> A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
> It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable ...
> all true. ;-)
well, portable in the sense it is easy to carry - but not something to use
on the move since it seems to need mains power, although I'm sure someone
can produce a battery pack to go with it. Then you'll only need a battery
operated monitor and it really becomes a proper portable. Good for in the
car though.
--
From KT24 - in "leafy" Surrey
Using a RISC OS5 computer
Dave Higton
"A.Weston" <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
> Well done Stuart Tyrell and Simtec is what I say!
I think they've outdone Apple on the styling front (comparing the A9
Home with the Mac mini), which is no mean feat. I congratulate them
all.
Dave
Chika
Looking at the picture of the back panel (I assume that is the back,
anyway), the power input is 5v, though how much of a draw it might have
doesn't seem to be very clear. That will probably depend on exactly what
is living in the box. I do like the idea of possibly converting this into
a full laptop though. Goodness knows there has been a demand for it since
the demise of the A4.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// Hitting Googlespammers with hyper-hammers!
... If flies couldn't fly, would they be called walks?
John Cartmell
<miy...@spam-no-way.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4d6f3724...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles
> <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4d6f352...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> > <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>, A.Weston
> > > <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> > > > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly
> > > > compact.
> > > It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable
> > > ... all true. ;-)
> > well, portable in the sense it is easy to carry - but not something to
> > use on the move since it seems to need mains power, although I'm sure
> > someone can produce a battery pack to go with it. Then you'll only
> > need a battery operated monitor and it really becomes a proper
> > portable. Good for in the car though.
> Looking at the picture of the back panel (I assume that is the back,
> anyway),
That's right. The front just has 2 x USB, Mic, Head, reset and LEDs.
Although which way you stand the thing is
> the power input is 5v, though how much of a draw it might have
> doesn't seem to be very clear.
20W
There are four USB's so what (spare) will they need to access?
[Snip]
News
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>,
> > A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> > > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
> > It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable ...
> > all true. ;-)
> well, portable in the sense it is easy to carry - but not something to
> use on the move since it seems to need mains power, although I'm sure
> someone can produce a battery pack to go with it.
As it requires 5V at less than 1A this should not be difficult. It does
need to be regulated though so I would envisage a battery with some sort
of switching DC-DC convertor.
In the RS catalogue there are some suitable modules such as 459-8387 which
will produce 5V regulated at 1A from an input range of 9-36V for 17.72ukp.
433-8365 will operate from 6-16.5V input to 5V at 2A for 18.73ukp
> Then you'll only need a battery operated monitor and it really becomes a
> proper portable. Good for in the car though.
There are TFT monitors in the CPC catalogue which have seperate mains
adaptors so the monitor supply itself must be DC and I certainly saw some
being scrapped at work which had 9V inputs.
Stuart
--
Stuart Winsor
From is valid but subject to change without notice if it gets spammed.
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
Harriet Bazley
charles wrote:
> In article <4d6f352...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>,
> > A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> > > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
>
> > It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable ...
> > all true. ;-)
>
> well, portable in the sense it is easy to carry - but not something to use
> on the move since it seems to need mains power, although I'm sure someone
> can produce a battery pack to go with it. Then you'll only need a battery
> operated monitor and it really becomes a proper portable.
Keyboard...? (Or do you balance that on top of the monitor? :-)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Oregano: The ancient Italian art of pizza folding.
Steven Pampling
> wrote:
> > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly compact.
> It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable ...
> all true. ;-)
Small form-factor transportable. SFT
Don't yer just luv TLAs?
ad...@billsimpson.com
> Small form-factor transportable. SFT
=?:)) Thank you, Steve..!
All I know is, holding an A9home in hand and looking
longingly at the exit door at Wakefield, with the
lovely STD Wendy hovering - Stuart pounced and got 'is
box back quick! Innocently, (for that I surely am), I
asked if there was anything actually inside the box...
..'The Look' said it all..! ;))
Incidentally ..is it the same asking price as that for
the 'BBC B' of near twenty-five years ago? Whatever,
it's present day price is now considerably 'cheaper',
in real terms. What a difference those intervening years
have made...
I wonder what changes we can expect in another 10 or
20+ years from now? Perhaps now is the time to buy
into this small piece of our history in the making... :))
Bill ZFC
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
Michael Gilbert
consumed much of their budget. Having said that, it's fully conformant
with Bauhaus design principles, with its form absolutely defined by
function. (:-)
Cheers
Mike
--
Michael Gilbert: in his own write
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/archiology for old Acorn software items
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/access for Acorn peer-to-peer tools
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/ebay.html for old Acorn hardware items.
John Cartmell
<mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <b83a336f4d...@dsl.pipex.com>, Dave Higton
> <URL:mailto:daveh...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > In message <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk> "A.Weston"
> > <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly
> > > compact. Well done Stuart Tyrell and Simtec is what I say!
> >
> > I think they've outdone Apple on the styling front (comparing the A9
> > Home with the Mac mini), which is no mean feat. I congratulate them
> > all.
> >
> It's a small blue box with sockets in it. I don't think "styling"
> consumed much of their budget. Having said that, it's fully conformant
> with Bauhaus design principles, with its form absolutely defined by
> function. (:-)
An OU CAD course that I took had a video illustration of the design of a
Citroen car. The 'designer' started by drawing freehand the 'sexy' lines of
the car and from that they produced a 3D model that was measured and
co-ordinates entered into their computer. I later considered buying one of
those models and found that six foot drivers couldn't fit into the thing.
'Form follows function' seems to be a much better idea. And wasn't that how
we got RISC in the first place? ;-)
Style? It could have been yellow ...
John Cartmell
> Small form-factor transportable. SFT
Are you allowed to call it a 'small form-factor' when it's a
custom-designed case - or should that be CDT?
> Don't yer just luv TLAs?
Even when the TLAs are FLAs or even TLAs. ;-)
John Cartmell
wrote:
> In article <4d6f6bdd1bst...@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling
> <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > In article <4d6f352...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> > <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>, A.Weston
> > > <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> > > > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly
> > > > compact.
> > > It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket, portable
> > > ... all true. ;-)
> > Small form-factor transportable. SFT
> > Don't yer just luv TLAs?
> =?:)) Thank you, Steve..!
> All I know is, holding an A9home in hand and looking longingly at the
> exit door at Wakefield, with the lovely STD Wendy hovering - Stuart
> pounced and got 'is box back quick!
So you tried that too. I merely confirmed that it was a pocket computer!
> Innocently, (for that I surely am), I asked if there was anything
> actually inside the box...
They were all functioning machines.
> ..'The Look' said it all..! ;))
! ;-)
> Incidentally ..is it the same asking price as that for the 'BBC B' of
> near twenty-five years ago? Whatever, it's present day price is now
> considerably 'cheaper', in real terms. What a difference those
> intervening years have made...
The BBC B was 399 but the optional disc drive cost considerably more. I
think the specs have changed a touch...
> I wonder what changes we can expect in another 10 or 20+ years from
> now? Perhaps now is the time to buy into this small piece of our
> history in the making... :))
IMHO this *is* a piece of history rather than just(!) another RISC OS
computer. It will take time to sink in though as the concept is quite
mind-boggling. There were quite a number of people going up to the
Advantage Six stand and needing to be told that that really was the
computer - not the power supply as one customer assumed.
It's not until the third or fourth person strides into the TARDIS that you
appreciate that something really odd is happening! Advantage Six and CJE
are going to have to make it clear that they don't have wires from a big
box hidden under the counter - like they had at the Peanut demonstration
years ago.
Ray Dawson
Chika <miy...@spam-no-way.invalid> wrote:
> Looking at the picture of the back panel (I assume that is the back,
> anyway), the power input is 5v, though how much of a draw it might have
> doesn't seem to be very clear.
20 watts isn't it? So, a 4 amp 5 volt psu.
Cheers,
Ray D
--
Ray Dawson
r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk
MagRay - the audio & braille specialists
John M Ward
[snip]
> All I know is, holding an A9home in hand and looking
> longingly at the exit door at Wakefield, with the
> lovely STD Wendy hovering - Stuart pounced and got 'is
> box back quick! Innocently, (for that I surely am), I
> asked if there was anything actually inside the box...
I hope they'll be able to come to the South-East Show this year, so that
"us south'ners" can experience "the lovely Wendy" for ourselves.
Oh, and the A9home of course!
> ..'The Look' said it all..! ;))
> Incidentally ..is it the same asking price as that for
> the 'BBC B' of near twenty-five years ago? Whatever,
> it's present day price is now considerably 'cheaper',
> in real terms. What a difference those intervening years
> have made...
It is always thus with technology in mass-markets. From the Ford Model
T, via the Sinclair pocket computer (compared to the expensive HP35, for
example) to what we see today in our particular market, the march of
mass-appeal technologies is nearly always towards better, cheaper and
more useful.
The "Wintel" arena is perhaps the exception to this rule in some
respects, as it is essentially stagnant with no invention of anything by
the Big Boys or indeed more-or-less anyone else -- it's just copycat
buying-in of stock parts.
> I wonder what changes we can expect in another 10 or
> 20+ years from now? Perhaps now is the time to buy
> into this small piece of our history in the making... :))
I am hoping for true 3-D (holographic) displays and direct mind control
(which should ultimately be easier to implement than speech
recognition), but am content for now to buy into thie piece of history,
once my (fervently active) mind can work out a use and justification for
buying one ;-)
--
John M Ward : RISC OS computing since 1987, now Iyonix-powered!
Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers
charles
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> The BBC B was 399 but the optional disc drive cost considerably more.
The disc drive was very much later than the original machine. Not only did
you have buy the drive, but also a DFS chip. The two could add another 200
to the bill.
Ollie Clark
The actual computer draws 2.5W excluding the USB (according to whoever did
the presentation) so I'd have thought it would be fairly easy to power it
off batteries. Looks great for carrying around with you and using on spare
monitors etc. wherever you are.
--
Grahame Parish
John M Ward <jo...@acornusers.org> wrote:
[snip]
> I am hoping for true 3-D (holographic) displays and direct mind control
> (which should ultimately be easier to implement than speech
> recognition), but am content for now to buy into thie piece of history,
> once my (fervently active) mind can work out a use and justification for
> buying one ;-)
I thought BG had already implemented mind control (of the user) in
Windoze, judging by some of the zombies that buy it! ;->
Cheers,
Grahame.
--
Grahame Parish
maillistDOTparishATmillersHYPHENwayDOTnet
Richard Ashbery
A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
Mind blowing - it is difficult to imagine how much STD have packed in
to such a tiny space - an unbelievable 168 X 103 X 53 mm. With an ARM9
processor, a powerful graphics processor associated with an 8MB video
RAM, 128MB of SDRAM, a 40GB hard drive, a 10/100 baseT network, 4 x
USB ports and running native RISC OS Adjust32 this has got to be
excellent value at £499 + VAT. The price also includes keyboard, mouse
and power supply.
I believe this may be a cheap solution for the graphic artist -
How about - bundling ArtWorks* with an A9 for example.
*I do like that graduated transparency feature demonstrated by Martin
Wuerthner at Wakefield.
--
Regards
Richard
(Remove basura to reply)
Vic Shears
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Are you allowed to call it a 'small form-factor' when it's a
> custom-designed case - or should that be CDT?
Is it a "custom-designed case"? I am sure I have seen bits of broadcast TV
kit in very similar cases. I just cannot recall what ATM.
Vic
--
VIC SHEARS, Maidstone, Kent. Tel 01622 686019
vsh...@blueyonder.co.uk Mobile 07860 544403
ICQ Number 19839176
John M Ward
Richard Ashbery <ric...@basuraashbery19.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>,
> A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> Mind blowing - it is difficult to imagine how much STD have packed in
> to such a tiny space - an unbelievable 168 X 103 X 53 mm. With an ARM9
> processor, a powerful graphics processor associated with an 8MB video
> RAM, 128MB of SDRAM, a 40GB hard drive, a 10/100 baseT network, 4 x
> USB ports and running native RISC OS Adjust32 this has got to be
> excellent value at £499 + VAT. The price also includes keyboard, mouse
> and power supply.
Ah! Is that all it'll cost? With all that included? Truly amazing.
I'm sure I for one can find a convincing reason to buy one.
Bill (Adopt)
charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4d6f797...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snip]
> > The BBC B was 399 but the optional disc drive cost considerably more.
> The disc drive was very much later than the original machine. Not only did
> you have buy the drive, but also a DFS chip. The two could add another 200
> to the bill.
<aside>
I had a youngster who 'bashed' a new-fangled 3.5"
plastic encased disc into the ubiquitous tiny 5.25"
floppy drive, once. She used the back end of a
book, moaning loudly that the thing wouldn't go in!
That really was an expensive drive..! =;))
</aside>
charles
Bill (Adopt) <ad...@billsimpson.com> wrote:
> In article <4d6f90d0...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4d6f797...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > [Snip]
> > > The BBC B was 399 but the optional disc drive cost considerably more.
> > The disc drive was very much later than the original machine. Not only
> > did you have buy the drive, but also a DFS chip. The two could add
> > another 200 to the bill.
> <aside> I had a youngster who 'bashed' a new-fangled 3.5" plastic
> encased disc into the ubiquitous tiny 5.25" floppy drive, once.
Yes, it was tiny in comparison with the 8" drives, but really very large by
today's standards - although very slim.
Theo Markettos
> As it requires 5V at less than 1A this should not be difficult. It does
> need to be regulated though so I would envisage a battery with some sort
> of switching DC-DC convertor.
I'd suggest using an integrated battery charge chip connected to a switching
regulator. There may well be a switching regulator onboard anyway (the
processor probably needs 3.3V and maybe 1.8V, ditto DRAM and flash) so,
depending on the spec of the regulator and if nothing else is driven off 5V
without regulation, it might be possible to connect the battery to the 5V
input directly.
For the battery charge side, assuming the device has I2C (SMBus), the
SMBus integrated battery charging chips are quite easy to use. Something
like the MAX8713 which will do up to 10 NiCd/NiMH cells or 4 Li+ cells with
software control:
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX8713.pdf
You just then need to write a module that reads out the battery state and
does relevant things with the OS (like machine shutdown etc).
> There are TFT monitors in the CPC catalogue which have seperate mains
> adaptors so the monitor supply itself must be DC and I certainly saw some
> being scrapped at work which had 9V inputs.
I'm slightly surprised by the mention of an 'graphics co-processor' as most
systems-on-chip have these integrated. It could be because the S3C2410 (if
that's the chip used on the A9 as well as Simtec's board) only has an LCD
controller, not a CRT. However assuming it's not a FPGA custom controller
(like Microdigital's Lightning) then any graphics chip worth its salt these
days is going to have DVI if not LCD output (and A6's other A9 designs would
need it anyway) so attaching that to a modern laptop LCD panel isn't going
to be hard. If it has LVDS output, it's even easier. And then all you need
to do is worry about is power for the LCD - use the inverter that comes with
it, another programmable LCD regulator chip, done.
Keyboard and touchpad are easy: use small form factor PS/2 or USB devices.
Then there's the small matter of a case, which I can't help you with. But
making one out of Lego isn't such a silly idea and I imagine Rico Naf's
metal bending method isn't completely infeasible.
If anyone can show me an A9, I might even be willing to do some design work
on this :-) AdvantageSix, if you're listening... :->
Theo
--
Theo Markettos th...@markettos.org.uk
Clare Hall, Cambridge at...@cam.ac.uk
CB3 9AL, UK http://www.markettos.org.uk/
Laurence
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket,
> portable ... all true. ;-)
My first thought on seeing it was that it reminded me of a PC
from many years ago known as "The Brick", but it's much more
stylish when you see it close up. And that case IS tough, I
asked how rugged it was and one of the crew there stood on one
to show me. OK there was a loud Clack sound, but that was just
the lid of the case settling better into the rest of it.
I too thought it would make a great car computer, but whilst the
A9 only draws an amp itself, the USB ports have to be able to
supply 1/2 an amp each so you're looking at a current draw of
around 3 amps, maybe more if you have the right (wrong)
componants plugged in.
Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
Laurence
--
... Happiness is a conscious choice, not an automatic response.
__ __ __ __ __ ___
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | And isn't your life extremely flat
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | with nothing whatever to grumble at.
...Running the RISC... lbATargonetDOTcoDOTuk
Paul Stewart
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> News <SW_N...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>> As it requires 5V at less than 1A this should not be difficult. It does
>> need to be regulated though so I would envisage a battery with some sort
>> of switching DC-DC convertor.
>
> I'd suggest using an integrated battery charge chip connected to a switching
> regulator. There may well be a switching regulator onboard anyway (the
> processor probably needs 3.3V and maybe 1.8V, ditto DRAM and flash) so,
> depending on the spec of the regulator and if nothing else is driven off 5V
> without regulation, it might be possible to connect the battery to the 5V
> input directly.
>
[snip]
The A9 power supply is DC 5V and is has printed on it "SWITCH MODE
POWER SUPPLY"
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RCP SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
287Mhz StrongARM RPC
RISC OS 4, Select 4.39 (http://www.riscos.com/select)Be Bold. Dare To
Be Different. Use RISC OS (http://www.riscos.com).
Kell Gatherer
> [Snip]
> > The BBC B was 399 but the optional disc drive cost considerably more.
> The disc drive was very much later than the original machine. Not only
> did you have buy the drive, but also a DFS chip. The two could add
> another 200 to the bill.
That would have been the floppy.
I paid about £450 for a hard drive: 30 megabytes!
--
Kell Gatherer
kell at the_locs dot com (remove underscore and expand)
www.locationworks.com
Ben Shimmin
Hash: SHA1
Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
[...]
> Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
> it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
b.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFCkiHXAqQNOmQGWekRAuWHAJ4svHhECt8wVDmq4PnMsnbxPNBaZgCfR2S4
mv4AbW3qzFVSsFeVdVjTv+0=
=yVA6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
druck
> In article <ant22110...@ukonline.co.uk>,
> A.Weston <nospam@invalid> wrote:
>
> Mind blowing - it is difficult to imagine how much STD have packed in
> to such a tiny space - an unbelievable 168 X 103 X 53 mm. With an ARM9
> processor, a powerful graphics processor associated with an 8MB video
> RAM, 128MB of SDRAM, a 40GB hard drive, a 10/100 baseT network, 4 x
> USB ports and running native RISC OS Adjust32 this has got to be
> excellent value at £499 + VAT. The price also includes keyboard, mouse
> and power supply.
Well its an SOC (System On Chip), so the processor core, graphics, I/O and
memory controllers are all on one chip. There needs to be hardly any
additional logic circuits, so most the circuit board is just used to bring
out the various connectors.
---druck
--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
druck
> Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
>
> [...]
>
> > Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
> > it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
>
> The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
Well go to Advantage 6 and negotiate a contract for the production of a
similar number of machines each month as for the Mac Mini, and I'm sure
you'll be offered a very competitive unit cost.
Paul Stewart
Ben Shimmin <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
> Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
>
> [...]
>
>> Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
>> it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
>
> The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
>
> b.
>
What people fail to realise is that we are in a niche market.
Hardware does not get produced on the scale of the Mac Mini or a
Windows box either. We are always going to pay a premium for our
hardware and quite possible software to enable the manufacturers to
say in business. If the A9 takes off outside of the standard desktop
market, perhaps the price will fall, but until then we have to pay for
the development costs of any new hardware.
Whilst the Mac Mini may look better value for money, the one thing it
does not run is RISC OS and at the end of the day, it is the RISC OS
operating system and that we all like to use, so comparing the A9 with
a Mac Mini, a cheap Intel Celeron PC or a gold plated toaster makes no
difference whatsoever unless they are running RISC OS.
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RCP SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
287Mhz StrongARM RPC
RISC OS 4, Select 4.39 (http://www.riscos.com/select)RISC OS 5, now
available with IYONIX (http://www.iyonix.com.)
John M Ward
Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote, in part:
> Whilst the Mac Mini may look better value for money, the one thing it
Though now, it can! The new VirtualRPC (not "Virutal RCP" as in your
sig, by the way!) for MacOS was shown at Wakefield, it transpires. Now
that's one I didn't see coming, as at the last SE Show they were aiming
at Linux next.
Even so, I prefer RISC OS running natively wherever possible, and adding
the cost of V-RPC to a Mac Mini would close the price gap somewhat, so
there is real scope for the A9home to make an impact, I feel.
> Regards
> ---
> Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
> Virutal RCP SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
--
Matthew Barnett
> In article <4d6f352...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>It's rather an awkward beast to describe! Desktop, pocket,
>>portable ... all true. ;-)
>
>
> My first thought on seeing it was that it reminded me of a PC
> from many years ago known as "The Brick", but it's much more
> stylish when you see it close up.
>
I thought "The Brick" was the nickname given to a _mobile phone_ made by
Motorola.
John Cartmell
> Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
> [...]
> > Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
> > it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
> The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is not
really usable? I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of
the MacMini.
charles
Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Whilst the Mac Mini may look better value for money, the one thing it
> does not run is RISC OS and at the end of the day, it is the RISC OS
> operating system and that we all like to use, so comparing the A9 with
> a Mac Mini, a cheap Intel Celeron PC or a gold plated toaster makes no
> difference whatsoever unless they are running RISC OS.
but ... at Wakefield there was Virtual RISC PC for the MAC .
Paul Stewart
charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5e49b26...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [Snip]
>
>> Whilst the Mac Mini may look better value for money, the one thing it
>> does not run is RISC OS and at the end of the day, it is the RISC OS
>> operating system and that we all like to use, so comparing the A9 with
>> a Mac Mini, a cheap Intel Celeron PC or a gold plated toaster makes no
>> difference whatsoever unless they are running RISC OS.
>
> but ... at Wakefield there was Virtual RISC PC for the MAC .
>
I forgot about that one. But still, you I don't think you can beat
running RISC OS on native hardware.
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RPC SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
Bryn Evans
the original 'Tiny' computer was a brick - DOS machine with 1/2
Fdrives
--
mail to - br...@bryork.com
Ray Dawson
Which was probably about the same size in those days.
Keith Wilson
> In article <slrn.2005-05...@rialto.bas.me.uk>,
> Ben Shimmin <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>
>
>>Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
>
>
>>[...]
>
>
>>>Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
>>>it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
>
>
>>The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
>
>
> Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is not
> really usable? I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of
> the MacMini.
>
basic spec. The basic model comes with 256MB RAM and you'd need at least
an additional 256MB RAM module fitted, probably by Apple as it is not
designed to be user-upgradeable. That would mean the best part of
100ukp. You'd then also have to budget for a keyboard and mouse and if
you want the wireless variety you have to get a Bluetooth module fitted
by Apple as well as the cost of the peripherals themselves. If you
wanted wireless internet connection, you'd also need to get an Airport
Extreme card fitted.
I realise that you'd incur additional costs for a wireless keyboard and
mouse for the A9Home, but it looks to me as if the gap in cost is not as
significant as it appears to be at first. I'm not sure about a wireless
connection to a modem router; I assume that would be through an Ethernet
connection?
--
Keith Wilson
(No longer using RISC OS, but certainly much closer to a return than
before the Wakefield Show, for which I had booked up but then had to
cancel.)
David H Wild
Kell Gatherer <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > The disc drive was very much later than the original machine. Not only
> > did you have buy the drive, but also a DFS chip. The two could add
> > another 200 to the bill.
> That would have been the floppy.
> I paid about Ł450 for a hard drive: 30 megabytes!
I paid nearly Ł700 for a Viglen 28Mb drive - massive for its time. It's
still here but hasn't been used for several years.
--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband
Jeremy C B Nicoll
Vic Shears <vsh...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4d6f788...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Are you allowed to call it a 'small form-factor' when it's a
> > custom-designed case - or should that be CDT?
> Is it a "custom-designed case"? I am sure I have seen bits of
> broadcast TV kit in very similar cases. I just cannot recall what ATM.
Lots of audio equipment too - microphone pre-amps etc.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Ben Shimmin
Hash: SHA1
Keith Wilson <keith...@clara.co.uk>:
> John Cartmell wrote:
>> In article <slrn.2005-05...@rialto.bas.me.uk>,
>> Ben Shimmin <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
>>>The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
>>
>> Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is not
>> really usable? I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of
>> the MacMini.
`not really usable'? I've used one. It was very usable. My iBook has a
fairly similar specification to the base model Mac Mini (but with more RAM),
and it's extremely usable. Even for things like Unreal Tournament 2004.
> A usable Mac Mini would add at least acouple of hundred pounds to the
> basic spec. The basic model comes with 256MB RAM and you'd need at least
> an additional 256MB RAM module fitted, probably by Apple as it is not
> designed to be user-upgradeable. That would mean the best part of
> 100ukp.
30.01GBP, according to the Apple Store (if you click `Select' on the
Mac Mini page and play with the different options).
> You'd then also have to budget for a keyboard and mouse and if
> you want the wireless variety you have to get a Bluetooth module fitted
> by Apple as well as the cost of the peripherals themselves. If you
> wanted wireless internet connection, you'd also need to get an Airport
> Extreme card fitted.
Wired keyboard and mouse: 38GBP.
Wireless keyboard and mouse: 69.99GBP
Bluetooth and Airport Extreme: 69.99GBP.
I will admit that the A9home is somewhat smaller than the Mac Mini. ;)
b.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFCkkF8AqQNOmQGWekRAjQQAKCo3TNoaZKeKk45Bg8Gdem133oN1ACgrCPc
5i57G83rYbV2ZTUFupBi9oM=
=pT8P
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
News
Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4d6f3c3a...@no.spam.here>,
> Chika <miy...@spam-no-way.invalid> wrote:
> > Looking at the picture of the back panel (I assume that is the back,
> > anyway), the power input is 5v, though how much of a draw it might have
> > doesn't seem to be very clear.
> 20 watts isn't it? So, a 4 amp 5 volt psu.
The /power supply/ is 20W!
When I was discussing with someone on the stand, he suggested the
requirement was 600-800mA - depending on what was inside. I made a comment
about only needing an "ordinary" 1A 5V regulator to run it in the car and
he only pointed out the requirements for surge suppression.
The one I was holding had "just been in use for the demo" and was quite
cold. (well, at room temperature anyway) It has no fan and no visible
ventilation slots.
And yes, it is very light.
Stuart
Stuart
--
Stuart Winsor
From is valid but subject to change without notice if it gets spammed.
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
Sandy Morton
Matthew Barnett <ne...@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> made by Motorola.
SWAMBO has one and the description is about right!
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net
Theo Markettos
> The A9 power supply is DC 5V and is has printed on it "SWITCH MODE
> POWER SUPPLY"
That doesn't really mean anything though because it's very unlikely the
power brick would be anything else - switched mode power supplies are the
most efficient means of converting power from different voltage levels.
Imagine you're trying to maintain the level in a tank of water. Traditional
linear PSUs work by having a constant input flow and throwing away any
excess water (by converting the power to heat). Switched mode PSUs are like
a small bucket used to top up the tank - we only top up the tank at the rate
at which it is emptying, and we don't draw any more water from the water
source than we need to fill the tank. So we only waste a little bit of
water that we spill when doing the filling.
It's quite common to have switched mode power supplies running off switched
mode power supplies. Think about a car battery: imagine if you plugged in a
laptop via a mains inverter (which is a SMPSU) into the cigarette lighter
socket. The laptop power brick (and most other power bricks today) is a
SMPSU, as has the laptop itself (multiple SMPSUs for different voltages for
screen, CPU I/O, CPU core, memory, peripherals etc). I dare you to find a
piece of electronics these days that *doesn't* have a SMPSU inside! :-)
Theo
Bungee
> It's quite common to have switched mode power supplies running off switched
> mode power supplies. Think about a car battery: imagine if you plugged in a
> laptop via a mains inverter (which is a SMPSU) into the cigarette lighter
> socket. The laptop power brick (and most other power bricks today) is a
> SMPSU, as has the laptop itself (multiple SMPSUs for different voltages for
> screen, CPU I/O, CPU core, memory, peripherals etc). I dare you to find a
> piece of electronics these days that *doesn't* have a SMPSU inside! :-)
>
> Theo
Marconi TF1101
--
Bungee
work...@mail.com
A.Weston wrote:
> The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly
compact.
<snip>
It is.
However I'm wondering where the market is.
In its favour its base price is significantly cheaper than an Iyonix,
nice and compact (eminently luggable) and for the afficendos of Adjust,
it will come out of the box with a 32 bit version of RO4. Assuming
sufficient compatibility with RO5 then the upgrade path to 32 bit apps
is covered and Aemulor seems to work too for those programs that are
never going to be 32 bitted.
However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC. The A9home is unlikely
to be faster than an Iyonix which thus will not challenge the VRPC
advocates assertions of greater speed under emulation than native.
Also there have been many comments about the cost of upgrading to 32
bit programs, which I assume will also counts for the A9home. If so
then the A9Home is an entry level machine that has the same extra
initial software upgrade costs associated with the Iyonix.
IMHO those people who asserted at the time of the launch of the Iyonix
that it was not upgradeable enough/future proofed are going to have a
hard time not saying the same thing about the A9home. From the info on
Drobe it looks like the only possibilities for expansion are via USB or
network ports (eg IP cam instead of USB webcam). Perhaps why STD have
been producing external optical USB drives and other devices ;o)
All rather interesting. I wish the project well, it has at least given
those RISC OS users who must have Adjust the prospect of a modern
native 32bit machine, that should give a useful speed increase over an
SARPC.
Cheers
Stan
John Cartmell
<work...@mail.com> wrote:
> A.Weston wrote:
> > The A9 home sounds a pretty remarkable piece of kit. Amazingly
> compact.
> <snip>
> It is.
> However I'm wondering where the market is.
You may have noticed that the A9 is different. There are markets outside:
the current RISC OS market;
past RISC OS users:
the A6 OEM market;
who would appreciate a snazzy low pawprint machine.
> In its favour its base price is significantly cheaper than an Iyonix,
> nice and compact (eminently luggable) and for the afficendos of Adjust,
> it will come out of the box with a 32 bit version of RO4. Assuming
> sufficient compatibility with RO5 then the upgrade path to 32 bit apps
> is covered and Aemulor seems to work too for those programs that are
> never going to be 32 bitted.
> However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC.
Which won't do all that an A9 will do.
> The A9home is unlikely to be faster than an Iyonix which thus will not
> challenge the VRPC advocates assertions of greater speed under emulation
> than native.
Based on no information. All we know is that it is fast. How fast will not
be clear for some time.
> Also there have been many comments about the cost of upgrading to 32
> bit programs, which I assume will also counts for the A9home. If so
> then the A9Home is an entry level machine that has the same extra
> initial software upgrade costs associated with the Iyonix.
But with two machines requiring the same software upgrading the likelihood
of it happening is much increased to the benefit of Iyonix and A9 users.
And Aemulor was made A9 friendly within minutes of the author being
intoduced to an A9 (at the Show!).
> IMHO those people who asserted at the time of the launch of the Iyonix
> that it was not upgradeable enough/future proofed are going to have a
> hard time not saying the same thing about the A9home.
I think most of them have gone quiet. Again you're more likely to get USB
devices working with a market that includes Iyonix and A9 customers.
> From the info on Drobe it looks like the only possibilities for
> expansion are via USB or network ports (eg IP cam instead of USB
> webcam). Perhaps why STD have been producing external optical USB drives
> and other devices ;o)
I think you will find that Advantage6 have been releasing hardware for a
purpose! ;-)
[Snip]
News poster
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1116922676.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <work...@mail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> > impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC.
>
> Which won't do all that an A9 will do.
Spring offers on wacky-baccy in Manchester at the moment?
Or can the A9 go to the BBC website and listen to Radio 3 online........
Regard
Stan
--
News poster
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <slrn.2005-05...@rialto.bas.me.uk>,
> Ben Shimmin <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
>
> > Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
>
> > [...]
>
> > > Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price
> > > it could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
>
> > The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
>
> Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is not
> really usable?
I find this rather amusing as it comes from the man who even until
recently was recommending a RiscStation 7500 as a usable computer ;o) It
is also clear you haven't ever used a mac mini in base spec and/or your
source hasn't.
I've had a mac mini for a couple of months now. With 1.25GHz CPU and
256MB of RAM it is a perfectly usable machine.
Although the desktop is not as responsive as an Iyonix it will happily
play a Real Audio stream whilst uploading webcam pics to our website
every 5 minutes in the background, and at the same time providing a
faster (and vastly more competent) browsing experience than an Iyonix
running only Netsurf.
I'd be surprised if you were to find the mac mini unuseable or even
particularly slow (even without extra RAM) if you were coming from
an SARPC or slower machine such as the RiscStation.
>I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of
> the MacMini.
Well possibly if you add 1GB of RAM to the mac mini, and ignore the
built in modem, optical drive and software bundled with the mac.....
Regards
Stan
--
John Cartmell
News poster <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
> In message <4d6ffd4...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <1116922676.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > <work...@mail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> > > impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC.
> >
> > Which won't do all that an A9 will do.
> Spring offers on wacky-baccy in Manchester at the moment?
Did I miss the announcement of a desktop Windows machine measuring less
than 2" x 4" x 6.5" and running silent and cold off a 5volt input? With
Draw and BBC Basic inbuilt of course. ;-)
> Or can the A9 go to the BBC website and listen to Radio 3 online........
The Windows machines are quite good at the consumer lo-fi business aren't
they?
John Cartmell
<ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
> In message <4d6fb41...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell
> <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <slrn.2005-05...@rialto.bas.me.uk>, Ben Shimmin
> > <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> >
> > > Laurence <l...@argonet.co.uk>:
> >
> > > [...]
> >
> > > > Still, it's a masterpiece of miniaturisation, and at the price it
> > > > could well sell extremely well, I certainly hope it does.
> >
> > > The price seems rather high compared to the Mac Mini...
> >
> > Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is
> > not really usable?
> I find this rather amusing as it comes from the man who even until
> recently was recommending a RiscStation 7500 as a usable computer ;o)
It depends what you want to do with it. What would you use for high-quality
sound sampling - an Iyonix?
If you're producing worksheets for school with original illustrations
produced in Draw the RiscStation is an excellent machine and, prior to the
A9home, was the only RISC OS entry machine available. Or would you
recommend an Iyonix or an Omega for the task I mention above?
> It is also clear you haven't ever used a mac mini in base spec and/or
> your source hasn't.
I haven't. My source has - and you'll notice she had someone confirm her
comment on this thread.
> I've had a mac mini for a couple of months now. With 1.25GHz CPU and
> 256MB of RAM it is a perfectly usable machine.
I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and others
including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
price. As you suggested, I don't know Macs - so your contrary opinion goes
into the pot without any direct comment from myself.
> Although the desktop is not as responsive as an Iyonix it will happily
> play a Real Audio stream whilst uploading webcam pics to our website
> every 5 minutes in the background, and at the same time providing a
> faster (and vastly more competent) browsing experience than an Iyonix
> running only Netsurf.
> I'd be surprised if you were to find the mac mini unuseable or even
> particularly slow (even without extra RAM) if you were coming from an
> SARPC or slower machine such as the RiscStation.
The comparison has to be with the A9. Maybe we need to add a Mac Mini to
the line-up when we do our tests.
> >I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of the MacMini.
> Well possibly if you add 1GB of RAM to the mac mini,
I thought you said the base spec was enough? ;-)
[Snip]
News poster
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <c8221c7...@mistymornings.demon.nl>,
> News poster <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
> > In message <4d6ffd4...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > In article <1116922676.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > > <work...@mail.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> > > > impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC.
> > >
> > > Which won't do all that an A9 will do.
> > Spring offers on wacky-baccy in Manchester at the moment?
>
> Did I miss the announcement of a desktop Windows machine measuring less
> than 2" x 4" x 6.5" and running silent and cold off a 5volt input?
I doubt that there would be a mac or Windows machines that as standard
run off a 5V power supply, however a bit of a moot point really as power
consumption is probably more important that the voltage they run at.
As regards size there are certainly small format PC's running XP, (see
http://www.flipstartpc.com/ http://www.tiqit.com ) that are very similar
in size to the A9home box.
IF you add an external optical drive and modem (both internal and
standard on a mac) then the A9home with similar spec is going to take up
more space than a mac mini. I am sure you are aware the mac mini is even
quieter than an Iyonix and the almost silent fan hisses into action
very infrequently.
> With
> Draw and BBC Basic inbuilt of course. ;-)
Well as we are talking VRPC then obviously those machines include Draw
and BBC Basic (albeit under emulation ;o).
> > Or can the A9 go to the BBC website and listen to Radio 3 online........
>
> The Windows machines are quite good at the consumer lo-fi business aren't
> they?
I find that the output from the mac mini when fed into my trusty NAD amp
and a pair of rather ordinary Panasonic speakers compares rather well
with CD's played on the same machine. Quite astonishing the advances in
sound quality from when I last tried RealAudio a few years ago. Live
classical broadcasts on BBC R3 are particularly good.
Perhaps a useful article for Qercus would be for you to borrow a mac
mini and try RealAudio out......then at least you could express informed
opinions!
Regards
Stan
--
Ben Shimmin
> In article <e0911f7...@mistymornings.demon.nl>, News poster
> <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
>> I've had a mac mini for a couple of months now. With 1.25GHz CPU and
>> 256MB of RAM it is a perfectly usable machine.
>
> I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and others
> including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
> base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
> price. As you suggested, I don't know Macs - so your contrary opinion goes
> into the pot without any direct comment from myself.
I find it amazing that on the strength of your mysterious `source' and
your own personal ignorance of Macs you find yourself able to argue with
someone who actually owns one whether or not the Mac Mini is usable...
>> Although the desktop is not as responsive as an Iyonix it will happily
>> play a Real Audio stream whilst uploading webcam pics to our website
>> every 5 minutes in the background, and at the same time providing a
>> faster (and vastly more competent) browsing experience than an Iyonix
>> running only Netsurf.
>
>> I'd be surprised if you were to find the mac mini unuseable or even
>> particularly slow (even without extra RAM) if you were coming from an
>> SARPC or slower machine such as the RiscStation.
>
> The comparison has to be with the A9. Maybe we need to add a Mac Mini to
> the line-up when we do our tests.
How can you possibly compare them?! Draw isn't available for Mac OS X!
b.
Peter Naulls
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>:
> > including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
> > base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
> > price. As you suggested, I don't know Macs - so your contrary opinion goes
> > into the pot without any direct comment from myself.
>
> I find it amazing that on the strength of your mysterious `source' and
> your own personal ignorance of Macs you find yourself able to argue with
> someone who actually owns one whether or not the Mac Mini is usable...
I also find it amazing. I don't own a Mac, and have no intention of
doing so, but I cannot find John's insistence on pretending he knows
more about the machine that anyone else, and as other clearly ficticious
claims, about the machine as anything but dishonest. I cannot believe
Ad6 will thank him for this.
I as much as anyone would like to see clear information about the
machine. Making stuff up about it or asserting opinion as fact clearly
isn't the way to go about this, and it's a shame John hasn't learnt
anything from past mistakes in precisely this matter.
--
Peter Naulls - pe...@chocky.org | http://www.chocky.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unix Programs on RISC OS | http://www.riscos.info/unix/
News poster
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <e0911f7...@mistymornings.demon.nl>, News poster
> <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
<snip>
> > I've had a mac mini for a couple of months now. With 1.25GHz CPU and
> > 256MB of RAM it is a perfectly usable machine.
>
> I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and others
> including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
> base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
> price. As you suggested, I don't know Macs - so your contrary opinion goes
> into the pot without any direct comment from myself.
Yes it is very definitely and entry level machine, but certainly NOT
unusable as was the point made earlier in the thread ;o)
I bought the mac knowing it was a budget machine and not only have I
*not* been disappointed I have been pleasantly surprised by it.
<snip>
> > I'd be surprised if you were to find the mac mini unuseable or even
> > particularly slow (even without extra RAM) if you were coming from an
> > SARPC or slower machine such as the RiscStation.
>
> The comparison has to be with the A9. Maybe we need to add a Mac Mini to
> the line-up when we do our tests.
Might just be a good idea, as it is a direct competitor on price
(especially if you bung a copy of VRPC on it). Check out Expose if you
get the chance, really neat idea! The dock works surprisingly like the
RISC OS iconbar in some ways.
>
> > >I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of the MacMini.
> > Well possibly if you add 1GB of RAM to the mac mini,
> I thought you said the base spec was enough? ;-)
I did and it is. Taking RAM up to 1GB is the easiest way to make the
price* of the mac mini approach that of the A9home.....;o)
Regards
Stan
*Other ways of doing it; order an standard mac mini with 512MB of RAM,
the most expensive wireless networking card and an 80GB hard drive it
costs less than ukp470, (www.apple.com/uk ) choose the same spec and a
faster processor and it costs just under ukp500.
--
News poster
Keith Wilson <keith...@clara.co.uk> wrote:
> John Cartmell wrote:
<snip>
> > Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is not
> > really usable? I understand it compares well with a basic usable spec of
> > the MacMini.
> >
> A usable Mac Mini would add at least acouple of hundred pounds to the
> basic spec. The basic model comes with 256MB RAM and you'd need at least
> an additional 256MB RAM module fitted, probably by Apple as it is not
> designed to be user-upgradeable.
Within a couple of days of the mac mini going on sale, there were clear
instructions posted to a number of websites as to how to open the mac
mini case. Apparently not difficult to do.
512MB RAM for the mac is not expensive, if you buy it afterwards and
fit it yourself. According to the Apple UK website is an extra ukp30 if
you order it at the time of purchase.
Don't quite know how you get to a couple of hundred pounds extra to be
honest ;o)
Regards
Stan
--
John Cartmell
> your own personal ignorance of Macs you find yourself able to argue with
> someone who actually owns one whether or not the Mac Mini is usable...
If you'd read what I actually wrote you'll find that I didn't.
John Cartmell
wrote:
> it's a shame John hasn't learnt anything from past mistakes in precisely
> this matter
Peter may remember that when I asked a simple question about his software
on the newsgroup he complained long and bitterly about it being an
impossible question and refused to answer. When I asked him the same
question, word for word, at Wakefield on Sunday he answered immediately and
concisely. Stop wasting everyone's time on the newsgroups Peter and be a
civil here as you are in person.
Ben Shimmin
> In article <slrn.2005-05...@rialto.bas.me.uk>,
> Ben Shimmin <b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
>> I find it amazing that on the strength of your mysterious `source' and
>> your own personal ignorance of Macs you find yourself able to argue with
>> someone who actually owns one whether or not the Mac Mini is usable...
>
> If you'd read what I actually wrote you'll find that I didn't.
Good point. `You' didn't actually say anything intelligible about the
Mac Mini and its usability, you just quoted your `source'...
Why don't you have a Qercus field trip to an Apple retailer and have a look
at one of them in operation? You might just be impressed. You could even
compare notes with your source afterwards!
b.
News poster
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <e0911f7...@mistymornings.demon.nl>, News poster
> <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
> > In message <4d6fb41...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell
> > <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
<snip>
> > > Are you looking at the base price of the MacMini which I'm assured is
> > > not really usable?
<snip>
> I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and others
> including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
> base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
> price.
You were assured it 'is not really useable' vs 'distinctly
under specced'.
Which one is it then?
An RS7500 is 'distinctly under specced' when compared to an A9home
therefore it follows that the RS7500 is 'not really useable'......or
have I missed some steps of your logic there? ;o)
Regards
Stan
--
Peter Naulls
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <fc682270...@chocky.org>, Peter Naulls <pe...@chocky.org>
> wrote:
This bit is where John has snipped the context in an attempt to change
the topic. Which was his misrepresentation of the A9.
> > it's a shame John hasn't learnt anything from past mistakes in precisely
> > this matter
>
> Peter may remember that when I asked a simple question about his software
> on the newsgroup he complained long and bitterly about it being an
> impossible question and refused to answer.
Your memory is breathtakingly faulty.
> When I asked him the same question, word for word, at Wakefield on
> Sunday he answered immediately and concisely.
Your questions at Wakefield were very different indeed from anything
you've tried to ask me anywhere else. Your questions were pretty much
identical to those asked by everyone else.
>Stop wasting everyone's
> time on the newsgroups Peter and be a civil here as you are in person.
Why is it ok for you to waste people's time by giving misinformation,
yet accuse me of the same? John, nothing has changed. The information
about the current topic, the A9 is quite clear, but what you insist on
saying about it is very different to what's been said by Ad6 about it,
and indeed, what everyone else is saying about it.
Simon Challands
work...@mail.com wrote:
> However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC. The A9home is unlikely
> to be faster than an Iyonix which thus will not challenge the VRPC
> advocates assertions of greater speed under emulation than native.
But if you don't already have a pretty powerful PC or Mac then I would
imagine that an A9 will get you better RISC OS performance for that price
than you'd be able to get by emulation.
--
Simon Challands
Keith Wilson
Faulty memory; mine that is.
I ordered a Mac Mini when it came out and by the time I had added all
the extras the cost was just under £1000. However, since then, they have
dropped the price of memory a bit. They also dropped the price of the
Airport Extreme card. I will concede that I was guilty of not checking
up-to-date prices and that even then I was a bit over in my estimate.
I think it was all the griping about the cost of the machine that has
already occurred that promted me to a hyperbolic response; what do
people expect of the developers in the RISC OS market? These guys are
brilliant and committed and yet what they often get for their
considerable efforts is griping about the cost of the hardware. £499
seems superb to me and I am looking forward to getting one to complement
my PC laptop (I cancelled the Mac Mini because it was so pricey and got
a PC laptop instead!)
--
Keith Wilson
Peter Naulls
Keith Wilson <keith...@clara.co.uk> wrote:
> I ordered a Mac Mini when it came out and by the time I had added all
> the extras the cost was just under £1000. However, since then, they have
> dropped the price of memory a bit. They also dropped the price of the
> Airport Extreme card. I will concede that I was guilty of not checking
> up-to-date prices and that even then I was a bit over in my estimate.
Yes, this is the issue. It can depend a great deal on extras. In the
case of the A9:
> £499 seems superb to me and I am looking forward to getting one to
> complement my PC laptop (I cancelled the Mac Mini because it was so
> pricey and got a PC laptop instead!)
It's actually 499 + VAT + shipping = ~600 UKP. Plus more if you want an
external DVD drive. Of course, you might be able to network one from
another machine. In comparison, the Iyonix of course is shipped with an
optical drive and the potential for more upgrades - although probably
something many people won't take advantage of that. As for performance,
as I'd predicted, they're (finger in the air) approximately the same
bang per buck. The deciding factors for and against may be that (a) The
A9 isn't finished yet and (b) The A9 runs a more featureful version of
RISC OS.
--
Peter Naulls - pe...@chocky.org | http://www.chocky.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
RISC OS C Programming | http://www.riscos.info/
Theo Markettos
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I dare you to find a piece of electronics these days that *doesn't* have
>> a SMPSU inside! :-)
>
Err, yes. That's 1960s valve powered, right? :-)
I probably should have inserted the words 'current' and 'consumer' around
'piece of' in the above sentence. After posting that I remembered that a
year or two ago I worked on the redesign of a medical machine with entirely
linear supplies where the only switching was the relays (!), but that's
because the EMC requirements for electrodes stuck into patients are a
/little/ tighter than the average thing sold on a market stall :-)
Theo
Bungee
> Bungee <bun...@erodin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I dare you to find a piece of electronics these days that *doesn't* have
> >> a SMPSU inside! :-)
> >
> > Marconi TF1101
>
> Err, yes. That's 1960s valve powered, right? :-)
:) I had to replace 2 resistors and one capacitor recently!
I'd send you the 5ukp but I can't get it to go down the phone line
> I probably should have inserted the words 'current' and 'consumer' around
> 'piece of' in the above sentence. After posting that I remembered that a
> year or two ago I worked on the redesign of a medical machine with entirely
> linear supplies where the only switching was the relays (!), but that's
> because the EMC requirements for electrodes stuck into patients are a
> /little/ tighter than the average thing sold on a market stall :-)
>
> Theo
Yes, I've had a little experience with medical measuring kit. *very*
interesting. Love some of the hoops they jump through for isolation etc.
--
Bungee
Sendu Bala
> In article <1ec0297...@mistymornings.demon.nl>,
> News poster <ne...@mistymornings.demon.nl> wrote:
>> Might just be a good idea, as it is a direct competitor on price
>> (especially if you bung a copy of VRPC on it). Check out Expose if you
>> get the chance, really neat idea! The dock works surprisingly like the
>> RISC OS iconbar in some ways.
>
> Oh come on! Promote the Mac if you like, but not Expose. It's just a
> rubbishy gimmick with no real use
!
<boggle>
It's quite a brilliant solution to the problem of finding an open
window. The mac users in my office couldn't live without it. Perhaps
you don't open many windows at once on your Mac?
> - along with the 'Dashboard' in Tiger which is completely useless!
Another absurd thing to say. It's only useless in the sense that it's
very useful...
--
Sendu Bala http://sendu.me.uk/ | Tori, Kenshin, DNA and my Iyonix
"I tell you with no ego that this is my finest blade. If you should
encounter God, God will be cut."
Steven Pampling
Bungee <bun...@erodin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes, I've had a little experience with medical measuring kit. *very*
> interesting. Love some of the hoops they jump through for isolation etc.
Not half as much as you'd love the testing done on a in-house designed and
built fibrillator.
"One false move and this could stop a persons heart beating properly"
um, er, that was the intention...
Steven Pampling
[Snip]
> > The comparison has to be with the A9. Maybe we need to add a Mac Mini
> > to the line-up when we do our tests.
> How can you possibly compare them?! Draw isn't available for Mac OS X!
Quite.
And there you have a major reason for not buying a Mac. (Unless you buy a
copy of VA for a Mac, but that sounds like an expensive copy of Draw to me)
Chris Williams
On Wed, 25 May 2005, pv wrote:
> In article <4d701d3...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and others
> > including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the opinion that the
> > base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in order to get a low headline
> > price. As you suggested, I don't know Macs - so your contrary opinion
> > goes into the pot without any direct comment from myself.
>
> I disagree. A Mac with 256MB of RAM is perfectly usable. I've only got
> 128MB in the iMac on my desk at work.
Er, yeah. Tell that to my 256M G4 iBook that struggles to run anything
more than 3 applications. I'm sick of the 'beach ball of death', and I
need to find 40 odd quid to upgrade it to 768M. Maybe then it'll actually
not stifle productivity by running slower than my RiscPC.
Cheers,
--
Chris Williams | http://www.diodesign.co.uk/
"I was told I needed 'Windows 2000 or better', so I installed RISC OS 4.39"
John M Ward
<Pine.SOL.4.44.050525...@primrose.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
> On Wed, 25 May 2005, pv wrote:
> > In article <4d701d3...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I presume it depends what you want to do with it. My source - and
> > > others including at least one reviewer - were strongly of the
> > > opinion that the base Mac Mini was distinctly under specced in
> > > order to get a low headline price. As you suggested, I don't know
> > > Macs - so your contrary opinion goes into the pot without any
> > > direct comment from myself.
> >
> > I disagree. A Mac with 256MB of RAM is perfectly usable. I've only
> > got 128MB in the iMac on my desk at work.
> Er, yeah. Tell that to my 256M G4 iBook that struggles to run
> anything more than 3 applications. I'm sick of the 'beach ball of
> death', and I need to find 40 odd quid to upgrade it to 768M. Maybe
> then it'll actually not stifle productivity by running slower than my
> RiscPC.
Goodness me! And I've been wondering what to do with the spare 100 MB
or so (out of 128 MB) on an A9home.
Even my almost-finished GIS file for my ward (multiple layers, including
some fairly large sprites, in ArtWorks2) is under 8 MB in size, and
running a whole fleet of apps with this file among those open still
takes only about 18 MB in total. I have a 4 MB font cache as it is,
though I suppose I /could/ raise the RAM disk size to something silly...
--
John M Ward : RISC OS computing since 1987, now Iyonix-powered!
Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers
Ollie Clark
Much as I think the A9 is a great piece of hardware and I'm thinking of
getting one myself, this just simply isn't true. You can get a pretty
powerful PC system for the ~600gbp you have to spend on an A9. According
to VRPC advocates that system will run RO faster then the A9. That's
*just* the speed issue though. There are plenty of other more important
things to think about.
--
John Cartmell
As the "VRPC advocates" haven't got the slightest idea of the speed of the
retail A9home your conclusion cannot be tenable. AFAIK the demonstrations
at the weekend were on development (alpha?) machines as the machines for
developers (beta machines?) couldn't be set up in time for the
presentation. It's a 'still to be tested' item and anyone making confident
comments about the retail version is guaranteed to be wrong; the only
question is how wrong. ;-)
To be constructive about all this:
Even when a retail version of the A9 exists to be tested there is bound to
be argument about how it's tested. In the past Archive have published
figures whilst Qercus have tended to rely on 'real task' impressions. Using
benchmark figures can be very misleading (we found one benchmark that
showed the A6 to be 14 times faster than the Iyonix) but does anyone have a
set of benchmarks that they reckon are good indicators of real-life tasks -
and are valid for both native and emulated machines?
Paul Stewart
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I think part of the problem with comparing benchmarks against native
and emulated machines is the the variability of AMD/Intel processors
and graphics cards. Whereas comparing the A9 against an Iyonix is
more viable due all Iyonixes using the same processor/graphics card.
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RPC SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
287Mhz StrongARM RPC
RISC OS 4, Select 4.39 (http://www.riscos.com/select)Be Bold. Dare To
Be Different. Use RISC OS (http://www.riscos.com).
george
george <george.g...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <4d70ae5...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <slrnd990sn....@cslin-gps.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk>,
> > Ollie Clark <oli...@comp.leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > Simon Challands wrote:
> > > > In message <1116922676.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
> > > > work...@mail.com wrote:
> > > >
[SNIP]
>
> Notwithstanding the above, I've just ordered an Iyonix. I need a new RO
> computer, I don't like the concept of emulation, and my /guess/ is the
> developed A9 will not outperform the Iyo (and even if it does, there is the
> question of expandability). Finally, the Iyo is available now at an
> attractive price.
>
> George
>
That should have been, 'was available recently at an attractive price' of
course - sorry.
George
--
george
> In article <slrnd990sn....@cslin-gps.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk>,
> Ollie Clark <oli...@comp.leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Simon Challands wrote:
> > > In message <1116922676.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
> > > work...@mail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> However if you already have a fast PC (or Mac) then for the
> > >> impecunious, a cheaper upgrade path is to VRPC. The A9home is
> > >> unlikely to be faster than an Iyonix which thus will not challenge
> > >> the VRPC advocates assertions of greater speed under emulation than
> > >> native.
> > >
> > > But if you don't already have a pretty powerful PC or Mac then I would
> > > imagine that an A9 will get you better RISC OS performance for that
> > > price than you'd be able to get by emulation.
>
> > Much as I think the A9 is a great piece of hardware and I'm thinking of
> > getting one myself, this just simply isn't true. You can get a pretty
> > powerful PC system for the ~600gbp you have to spend on an A9. According
> > to VRPC advocates that system will run RO faster then the A9. That's
> > *just* the speed issue though. There are plenty of other more important
> > things to think about.
>
> As the "VRPC advocates" haven't got the slightest idea of the speed of the
> retail A9home your conclusion cannot be tenable.
Agreed.
>
> To be constructive about all this:
> Even when a retail version of the A9 exists to be tested there is bound to
> be argument about how it's tested. In the past Archive have published
> figures whilst Qercus have tended to rely on 'real task' impressions. Using
> benchmark figures can be very misleading (we found one benchmark that
> showed the A6 to be 14 times faster than the Iyonix) but does anyone have a
> set of benchmarks that they reckon are good indicators of real-life tasks -
> and are valid for both native and emulated machines?
>
I thought the 23 tests, including benchmarks but largely consisting of
'real-world' tasks (loading, saving, copying, image manipulation, OCR,
printing out, etc) to which a range of native and emulated RO machines were
subjected in Archive Vol.17 No.8 P.42 (May '04) came pretty close to meeting
your criterion. Averaging all the results established a speed ratio roughly
as follows: SARPC=100; Kinetic=150; Iyonix=300; VARPC=400. The latter were a
2.66Mhz P4 laptop and a 3.06Mhz P4 desktop (the former surprisingly
performing better in some cases) and the screen size for all was 1280 x 1024
x 32K (256 cols for the RPCs). Hopefully Archive will subject a production
A9Home to the same tests in due course.
Notwithstanding the above, I've just ordered an Iyonix. I need a new RO
computer, I don't like the concept of emulation, and my /guess/ is the
developed A9 will not outperform the Iyo (and even if it does, there is the
question of expandability). Finally, the Iyo is available now at an
attractive price.
George
--
Peter Naulls
> In message <4d70ae5...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > As the "VRPC advocates" haven't got the slightest idea of the speed of the
> > retail A9home your conclusion cannot be tenable.
>
> Agreed.
Disagree. John is having trouble separating his opinion from that of
everyone else. The truth is that we can make very accurate
preditictions of just how the machine will behave, as was done with the
Omega, and any mythical IOP333 based machine.
John isn't in a position to make this prediction, but he's also
certainly not in the position to say no one else can.
--
Peter Naulls - pe...@chocky.org | http://www.chocky.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drobe - http://www.drobe.co.uk/ | The Premier RISC OS News Site
Paul Stewart
Peter Naulls <pe...@chocky.org> wrote:
> In message <cc6dc270...@tiscali.co.uk>
> george <george.g...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <4d70ae5...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
>> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > As the "VRPC advocates" haven't got the slightest idea of the speed of the
>> > retail A9home your conclusion cannot be tenable.
>>
>> Agreed.
>
> Disagree. John is having trouble separating his opinion from that of
> everyone else. The truth is that we can make very accurate
> preditictions of just how the machine will behave, as was done with the
> Omega, and any mythical IOP333 based machine.
>
> John isn't in a position to make this prediction, but he's also
> certainly not in the position to say no one else can.
>
>
But wasn't what John was attempting to say is that all you can do at
the moment is predict, based on specifications of the chipset used
within the A9? Until a retail version of the A9 is available and
suitable tests run, you cannot be absolutely certain of it's
performance.
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RPC SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
287Mhz StrongARM RPC
RISC OS 4, Select 4.39 (http://www.riscos.com/select)RISC OS 5, now
available with IYONIX (http://www.iyonix.com.)
Peter Naulls
Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> But wasn't what John was attempting to say is that all you can do at
> the moment is predict, based on specifications of the chipset used
> within the A9?
No. He says "[they] haven't the slightest idea".
> Until a retail version of the A9 is available and suitable tests run,
> you cannot be absolutely certain of it's performance.
That would be "its". You can still be a great deal more certain than JC
insists. I think you'll find that absolute certainty is a rare
commodity, and isn't really the point here.
--
Peter Naulls - pe...@chocky.org | http://www.chocky.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Stewart
Peter Naulls <pe...@chocky.org> wrote:
> In message <a03bca7...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk>
> Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> But wasn't what John was attempting to say is that all you can do at
>> the moment is predict, based on specifications of the chipset used
>> within the A9?
>
> No. He says "[they] haven't the slightest idea".
>
>> Until a retail version of the A9 is available and suitable tests run,
>> you cannot be absolutely certain of it's performance.
>
> That would be "its". You can still be a great deal more certain than JC
> insists. I think you'll find that absolute certainty is a rare
> commodity, and isn't really the point here.
>
"its" is indeed correct.
Regards
---
Paul Stewart - Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Virutal RPC SE 1.1 (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk)
287Mhz StrongARM RPC
Andrew Hill
> In article <gemini.ih0jha00...@erodin.demon.co.uk>,
> Bungee <bun...@erodin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, I've had a little experience with medical measuring kit. *very*
>>interesting. Love some of the hoops they jump through for isolation etc.
>
>
> Not half as much as you'd love the testing done on a in-house designed and
> built fibrillator.
Hmm. I hope that was a /de/fibrillator?
OK, this is nearly a Chocky-ism, but the name denotes its intention.
Whilst of course they both can do the same thing, a defibrillator is
intended to get someone out of ventricular fibrillation, ie.
de-fibrilate them.
A fibrillator of course would therefore be something designed to kill
you. Like an electric chair.
Hmmmm...Testing an in-house electric chair...Not coming round to your
house for tea ;o).
Best wishes,
Drew
Bungee
Wow!
... and there was me thinking I was being brave handling micropower current
amplifiers - lovely design, balanced input, true isolation - optically coupled
signal *and* power, phenominal screening, including two seperate ground lines
between the I/O of the isolators, one 'patient' side, one instrument side.
<sigh>
--
Bungee
Steven Pampling
Nope.
> OK, this is nearly a Chocky-ism, but the name denotes its intention.
> Whilst of course they both can do the same thing, a defibrillator is
> intended to get someone out of ventricular fibrillation, ie.
> de-fibrilate them.
Actually a device to *deliberately* set a heart into a quivering rather
than beating state. Much easier to operate on when it isn't bumping in and
out heavily.
The defib is used at the end of the op.
Now you know why heart by-pass is often risky.
Theo Markettos
> But wasn't what John was attempting to say is that all you can do at
> the moment is predict, based on specifications of the chipset used
> within the A9? Until a retail version of the A9 is available and
> suitable tests run, you cannot be absolutely certain of it's
> performance.
Indeed, but you can put an upper bound on its speed. So you could calculate
for an A9 at rated clock frequency with RAM running at maximum speed for the
memory bus, an optimistic percentage of cache hits, IDE bus running as fast
as the hard drive and so on. But this wouldn't be desperately helpful
because you then need to know the percentage of activity spent doing I/O,
DRAM, cache accesses and so on in doing a 'real-world task'. And that's not
something that can be ascertained without access to Adjust32 and a full set
of drivers.
So whilst it might be possible to say that "this machine has /got/ to be
slower than an Iyonix for task X" since there's no way it could meet the
Iyonix's measured performance, that only helps in limited cases. You
couldn't even categorically say "An A9 is faster than a BBC B" because we
don't know the impact of the OS and hardware (but if an optimal A9 is 200x
faster than a BBC B we can make a reasonable assumption that it is).
So whilst we can potentially learn something from this it's not necessarily
that helpful.
Theo
--
Theo Markettos th...@markettos.org.uk
Clare Hall, Cambridge at...@cam.ac.uk
CB3 9AL, UK http://www.markettos.org.uk/
Andrew Hill
> Andrew Hill <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Steven Pampling wrote:
>>
>>>In article <gemini.ih0jha00...@erodin.demon.co.uk>,
>>> Bungee <bun...@erodin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes, I've had a little experience with medical measuring kit. *very*
>>>>interesting. Love some of the hoops they jump through for isolation etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not half as much as you'd love the testing done on a in-house designed and
>>>built fibrillator.
>>
>>Hmm. I hope that was a /de/fibrillator?
>>
[snip]
>>A fibrillator of course would therefore be something designed to kill
>>you. Like an electric chair.
[snippety snip]
> ... and there was me thinking I was being brave handling micropower current
> amplifiers - lovely design, balanced input, true isolation - optically coupled
> signal *and* power, phenominal screening, including two seperate ground lines
> between the I/O of the isolators, one 'patient' side, one instrument side.
> <sigh>
>
Some of the new biphasic defibs are really cool, the quicker charge time
and accuracy of ECG recording through-paddles in particular is much
appreciated.
I wouldn't work too hard though - they're pretty pointless devices. I've
yet to get a (formerly) dead person out of hospital in two years. Unless
it's sat in CCU and viewed on monitors, or we're correcting an
arrhythmia in someone living, dead == dead. Anything else is just ER.
Best wishes,
Drew
Andrew Hill
> In article <429500da$0$2384$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> Andrew Hill <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Hmm. I hope that was a /de/fibrillator?
>
>
> Nope.
Eek. You /did/ mean a fibrillator ;o).
> Actually a device to *deliberately* set a heart into a quivering rather
> than beating state. Much easier to operate on when it isn't bumping in and
> out heavily.
> The defib is used at the end of the op.
>
> Now you know why heart by-pass is often risky.
Yeah - I know. Must admit I'd assumed that was just some cunning
involving a defib; I hadn't realised that there are people out there who
really design kit speicifically for fibrillation!
Actually, the patients your kit work on are the OTHER group of people
who survive defibrillation to be fair :o).
Best wishes,
Drew
Steven Pampling
Andrew Hill <us...@example.net> wrote:
> Actually, the patients your kit work on are the OTHER group of people
> who survive defibrillation to be fair :o).
Past tense really, I haven't worked on medical kit in years. Career drift.
In this case it was one of those drifts through digital electronic kit to
computer and network kit.
David H Wild
Paul Stewart <pa...@pstewart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > John isn't in a position to make this prediction, but he's also
> > certainly not in the position to say no one else can.
> >
> >
> But wasn't what John was attempting to say is that all you can do at
> the moment is predict, based on specifications of the chipset used
> within the A9? Until a retail version of the A9 is available and
> suitable tests run, you cannot be absolutely certain of it's
> performance.
Remember that Peter will disagree with **anything** that John says. :-))
--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband
Peter Naulls
Sigh. Was that comment really needed? I'm very disappointed that John
continues to post things that are simply not true, and that I have to be
the one to point them out, but if John wants to back up stuff he says
with even the most basic of references, then I'm sure agreement will be
no problem.
As for the sub-thread on medical equipment, whilst I'm sure it's
fascinating to those posting to it, it's very much off topic. At the
very least please put OT: in the topic.
--
Peter Naulls - pe...@chocky.org | http://www.chocky.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
RISC OS C Programming | http://www.riscos.info/
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> In article <429500da$0$2384$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> Andrew Hill <us...@example.net> wrote:
> > Hmm. I hope that was a /de/fibrillator?
>
> Nope.
>
> > OK, this is nearly a Chocky-ism, but the name denotes its intention.
> > Whilst of course they both can do the same thing, a defibrillator is
> > intended to get someone out of ventricular fibrillation, ie.
> > de-fibrilate them.
>
> Actually a device to *deliberately* set a heart into a quivering rather
> than beating state.
Thoughts of scantilly clad females crossed my mind reading this:-)
> Much easier to operate on when it isn't bumping in and
> out heavily.
I don't think I'll comment on this:-/
> The defib is used at the end of the op.
>
> Now you know why heart by-pass is often risky.
Was it just me that totally got the wrong end of the stick?
>
>
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
John Cartmell
Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > Actually a device to *deliberately* set a heart into a quivering rather
> > than beating state.
> Thoughts of scantilly clad females crossed my mind reading this:-)
Thoughts go to a whole set of OU BBB (Biological Bases of Behaviour)
experiments involving 'lie detector' machines that went haywire due to the
presence of a young female tutor with a rather low top button to her
blouse. ;-)
Simon Challands
> I thought the 23 tests, including benchmarks but largely consisting of
> 'real-world' tasks (loading, saving, copying, image manipulation, OCR,
> printing out, etc) to which a range of native and emulated RO machines were
> subjected in Archive Vol.17 No.8 P.42 (May '04) came pretty close to meeting
> your criterion. Averaging all the results established a speed ratio roughly
> as follows: SARPC=100; Kinetic=150; Iyonix=300; VARPC=400. The latter were a
> 2.66Mhz P4 laptop and a 3.06Mhz P4 desktop (the former surprisingly
> performing better in some cases) and the screen size for all was 1280 x 1024
> x 32K (256 cols for the RPCs). Hopefully Archive will subject a production
> A9Home to the same tests in due course.
Performance-wise I think most people accept it is possible to emulate RO
faster than it can be done natively, but I was thinking of the price, too.
How much do those Pentium machines + VARPC cost? I'd still be surprised to
see something that can do what I hope the A9 will be able to, at the same
cost, although since I'm not at all familiar with what you get for that
money in the PC world for that price I accept I could be wrong.
--
Simon Challands
charles
Simon Challands <simon_...@helvellyn.plus.com> wrote:
> Performance-wise I think most people accept it is possible to emulate RO
> faster than it can be done natively, but I was thinking of the price, too.
> How much do those Pentium machines + VARPC cost? I'd still be surprised to
> see something that can do what I hope the A9 will be able to, at the same
> cost, although since I'm not at all familiar with what you get for that
> money in the PC world for that price I accept I could be wrong.
in February, I bought new - via ebay - a fast (3.0 GHz) tower with a120GB
hard disk 512MB of internal memory and a DVDRW for 325 GBP. Window$ XP and
carriage cost another 100 quid. VRPC - which I don't need since I've got an
Iyonix - would have brought the cost up to 525 GBP. Ok, there wasn't a
monitor included.
--
From KT24 - in "leafy" Surrey
Using a RISC OS5 computer
Gary Jones
Don't worry... you'll need the 128Mb when you start to use GimpPrint
and Firefox. In fact, will 128Mb be enough?
--
Gary Jones