Missing font
T M Smith
before I got the Iyo. Impression cannot find some fonts,
CenturyOld.bold and CenturyOld.standard.
I cannot find them on my Iyo or the original Impression disks.
Does anyone know where these came from/ can be obtained.
Malcolm Smith
--
T M Smith
Using an Iyonix and RISC OS 5.13 in the North Riding of Yorkshire
M Harding
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I am updating some documents I wrote using Impression, probably
> before I got the Iyo. Impression cannot find some fonts,
> CenturyOld.bold and CenturyOld.standard.
> I cannot find them on my Iyo or the original Impression disks.
> Does anyone know where these came from/ can be obtained.
EFF has that font, but it's called OldSchbook. It's on the (extremely
expensive) Professional Typography 2 CD but presumably can be obtained
separately from www.eff.co.uk
It's some time since I used Impression but can't it be forced to
accept a substitute font? I have a hazy recollection of hacking into
it in order to remove font names which were left over from a previous
version of a document and obsolete.
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
Alan Calder
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <1b3bfab150.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>,
> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I am updating some documents I wrote using Impression, probably
> > before I got the Iyo. Impression cannot find some fonts,
> > CenturyOld.bold and CenturyOld.standard.
> > I cannot find them on my Iyo or the original Impression disks.
> > Does anyone know where these came from/ can be obtained.
[Snip]
> It's some time since I used Impression but can't it be forced to
> accept a substitute font? I have a hazy recollection of hacking into
> it in order to remove font names which were left over from a previous
> version of a document and obsolete.
Three methods come immediately to mind. Assuming it isn't vital for you to
have these fonts in the document.
I would guess that these fonts might be used for headings/sub-headings so
do they exist as Styles? If so it is simply a case of changing the Style
to use an existing font.
If the document is a relatively simple one then saving it as a text file
into Edit then doing a search and replace for CenturyOld.Bold and replacing
it with Homerton.Bold then saving the result into a new document sorts the
problem. With a more complex document with more than one 'story' then this
might need to be repeated but no problem really. This leaves the 'ghost'
markers in the document but they shouldn't cause any further problems.
Final method is to select all the text and go Menu -> Effect -> Clear all
effects. Assuming the 'ghosts' aren't Styles then this should get them.
Same thing can be done with Styles.
I seem to remember doing a Search and Replace directly in Impression using
braces {} but can't make it work these days! Skills going rusty so I hope
all the above isn't nonsense but I seem to remember sorting this problem by
these means in the past.
Otherwise take Michael's advice and speak to EFF.
Cheers
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
M Harding
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <50b20490...@mdharding.org.uk>,
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <1b3bfab150.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>,
> > T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > > I am updating some documents I wrote using Impression, probably
> > > before I got the Iyo. Impression cannot find some fonts,
> > > CenturyOld.bold and CenturyOld.standard.
> > > I cannot find them on my Iyo or the original Impression disks.
> > > Does anyone know where these came from/ can be obtained.
> [Snip]
> > It's some time since I used Impression but can't it be forced to
> > accept a substitute font? I have a hazy recollection of hacking
> > into it in order to remove font names which were left over from a
> > previous version of a document and obsolete.
> Three methods come immediately to mind. Assuming it isn't vital
> for you to have these fonts in the document.
I see a few flies in my ointment, on second thoughts.
One, is that even though one substitutes another font (and
Baskerville, to my untrained eye, looks virtually identical), the
lettering and spacing sizes will probably not be the same, causing all
the formatting to go awry.
Substituting the exactly equivalent font with another of a similar but
not identical name, will give you the correct spacings etc. but will
need quite a bit of hacking to get Impression to accept it.
[ Snipped Alan's methods of hacking ]
Going to EFF may cost quite a lot, ND THE NAME IS DIFFERENT.
However, I've traced the original font. It's in "100 Monotype
Typefaces" Pack 1, with the exact title you're looking for. Can you
find your original software?
T M Smith
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Impression does substitute for the font but I had no idea what the
original might be like.
Anyway after reading your mail and a bit of thinking I remembered a an
old printout I did of the fonts on the RiscPC, and there they were.
I can now see they are pretty standard fonts and so hope I have a
suitable substitute.
Alan Calder's technique can then be put to the test, thanks Alan
T M Smith
[snip]
>
> One, is that even though one substitutes another font (and
> Baskerville, to my untrained eye, looks virtually identical), the
> lettering and spacing sizes will probably not be the same, causing all
> the formatting to go awry.
>
> Substituting the exactly equivalent font with another of a similar but
> not identical name, will give you the correct spacings etc. but will
> need quite a bit of hacking to get Impression to accept it.
>
> [ Snipped Alan's methods of hacking ]
>
> Going to EFF may cost quite a lot, ND THE NAME IS DIFFERENT.
>
> However, I've traced the original font. It's in "100 Monotype
> Typefaces" Pack 1, with the exact title you're looking for. Can you
> find your original software?
>
> Michael Harding
> Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
>
Micheal,
Is that a CD?
I have quite a lot of floppies as well as various cd's.
It looks like a search is needed
Malcolm
M Harding
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > One, is that even though one substitutes another font (and
> > Baskerville, to my untrained eye, looks virtually identical), the
> > lettering and spacing sizes will probably not be the same,
> > causing all the formatting to go awry.
> >
> > Substituting the exactly equivalent font with another of a
> > similar but not identical name, will give you the correct
> > spacings etc. but will need quite a bit of hacking to get
> > Impression to accept it.
> >
> > [ Snipped Alan's methods of hacking ]
> >
> > Going to EFF may cost quite a lot, ND THE NAME IS DIFFERENT.
> >
> > However, I've traced the original font. It's in "100 Monotype
> > Typefaces" Pack 1, with the exact title you're looking for. Can
> > you find your original software?
> >
> Micheal,
> Is that a CD?
> I have quite a lot of floppies as well as various cd's.
> It looks like a search is needed
My edition came on 6 floppies, all in an A5 hard-backed white folder
complete with a booklet of the fonts all printed out at various sizes.
I've sent you an email separately.
Jim Nagel
...
> Alan Calder's technique can then be put to the test, thanks Alan
if you haven't already done the deed, i suggest you save out any
section of text from your document as a DDF file (Ctrl-F3, as text
"with styles").
look at this textfile with Edit or something. it will begin with
definitions of all the styles in your document, and you can easily see
which styles use which fonts. then back in Impression you know which
styles to edit (Ctrl-F6).
back in Impression itself, if you need to search the entire document
for uses of local Effects, rather than Styles, you can do it from the
usual Search dialogue (F4): search for
{font CenturyOld.bold}@
note the "@" meaning "any text" -- methinks that's what Alan was hazy
about.
searching for uses of Styles is similar: the dropdown menu at the
right of the Search dialogue will insert the relevant curlybracketed
Stylename, which you must follow with an "@" (or the particular text
you want to find in that style).
--
>>> nabsolutely no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
T M Smith
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks Jim,
Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
Malcolm
M Harding
> >
> > if you haven't already done the deed, i suggest you save out any
> > section of text from your document as a DDF file (Ctrl-F3, as
> > text "with styles").
[ Snip of method suggested . . ]
> Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
> Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
Jim's method may be the only one available because (as I've told in a
separate email to Malcolm) I've just tried my copy of CenturyOld and
it doesn't work. Nor do Pepita or Onyx. These flag up "illegal" or
"corrupt" when looked at in FontDir2 or in Publisher. And there's a
bad disc sector in the Italic CenturyOld.
But hang on a mo! When looking to see where the fonts originated [it
was from LOOKsystems] I've just spotted a paragraph saying "Unlocking"
- I now have to spend some time checking whether I can unlock these
after all.
You now need 3 things, Malcolm: a) the font (on Disc 2); b) the
Installtion disc (Disc 1) and c) your Serial number with unlock code.
I do have the codes; the question is whether the floppies are
readable. I'll try a bit later when I have time.
M Harding
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <03c397b450.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>,
> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > In message <8d7b86b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>
> > Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > if you haven't already done the deed, i suggest you save out any
> > > section of text from your document as a DDF file (Ctrl-F3, as
> > > text "with styles").
> [ Snip of method suggested . . ]
> > Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
> > Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
> Jim's method may be the only one available [ . . . ]
> You now need 3 things, Malcolm: a) the font (on Disc 2); b) the
> Installtion disc (Disc 1) and c) your Serial number with unlock
> code.
> I do have the codes; the question is whether the floppies are
> readable. I'll try a bit later when I have time.
Just checked. You now need a 4th thing: the computer you had before
the Iyonix!
It seems as if the anti-piracy software which encrypts the fonts also
locks it onto that specific computer. So the installation program
might work with my (defunct, in the loft) SARPC, but not with my
replacement Kinetic. Regardless of CenturyOld, this has spurred me on
to try to reactivate 3 other fonts I used in old documents.
I've just sent an email to Adrian Look. It bounced. I'll trawl the old
files to find his later address.
Did that. It bounced. Anyone know his current address, please?
T M Smith
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Just checked. You now need a 4th thing: the computer you had before
> the Iyonix!
>
Gosh; I cannot even remember to whom I sold it.
Malcolm
[snip]
Jim Nagel
M Harding wrote on 4 Nov:
>> You now need 3 things, Malcolm: a) the font (on Disc 2); b) the
>> Installtion disc (Disc 1) and c) your Serial number with unlock
>> code.
> Just checked. You now need a 4th thing: the computer you had before
> the Iyonix!
funny. i first installed some of the Monotype fonts to my old A420/1
and don't recall any problem in moving to the RiscPC. a few months
ago i installed all the rest of them from floppy to the RiscPC (in
Font Dir Pro) and certainly did not need anything but the floppies.
> I've just sent an email to Adrian Look. It bounced. ... Anyone know
> his current address, please?
2009feb:
Adrian Keeling-Look <adrian [usual At-sign] looksystems.ltd.uk>
Looksystems Limited
6 Albany Road. Falmouth, Cornwall, TR11 3RP
direct telephone: 0870 765 7663
--
>>> nabsolutely no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel [ www.archivemag.co.uk > Offer ]
>> Archive magazine's "two free trial issues" offer
>> is still in�effect. Please pass this on if you
>> know someone who hasn't seen the magazine lately.
M Harding
> M Harding wrote on 4 Nov:
> >> You now need 3 things, Malcolm: a) the font (on Disc 2); b) the
> >> Installtion disc (Disc 1) and c) your Serial number with unlock
> >> code.
> > Just checked. You now need a 4th thing: the computer you had
> > before the Iyonix!
> funny. i first installed some of the Monotype fonts to my old
> A420/1 and don't recall any problem in moving to the RiscPC. a
> few months ago i installed all the rest of them from floppy to the
> RiscPC (in Font Dir Pro) and certainly did not need anything but
> the floppies.
Yes it's FontDirPro3 that I'm trying to install some lost fonts into.
But the fonts Installation program to unencrypt them doesn't operate;
and if copied directly I get error/illegal notices.
> > I've just sent an email to Adrian Look. It bounced. ... Anyone
> > know his current address, please?
> 2009feb:
> Adrian Keeling-Look <adrian [usual At-sign] looksystems.ltd.uk>
> Looksystems Limited
> 6 Albany Road. Falmouth, Cornwall, TR11 3RP
> direct telephone: 0870 765 7663
Thanks, Jim. (I'm still relishing your Archive Mag, by the way.)
Trying to help Malcolm has spurred me on to trying to regain some
rather nice fonts which I thought I'd lost.
Mark Wiggin
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
> Thanks Jim,
> Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
> Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many people use
'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is perfectly satisfactory, and
much more elegant?
--
Mark Wiggin
John Williams (News)
Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many people use
> 'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is perfectly satisfactory, and
> much more elegant?
'Possible' is/can be more abstract and abstruse - 'do-able' has a more
practical connotation.
'Possible' pairs well with 'but extremely tedious and time consuming',
whereas 'do-able' has a sense of immediate practicality.
To use 'possible' in this case removes some implied meaning, and thus makes
the communication poorer IMHO.
Another tedious old pedant,
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/ Somewhere nice to stay in Brittany? http://petit.four.free.fr/visitors/locate
Richard Travers
Always happy to trip up a pedant with more pedantry, but the word is doable,
not do-able. ;-) It is a perfectly legitimate word with a very precise
meaning (able to be done).
I guess it is a matter of opinion whether 'possible' is more elegant than
'doable', but it is certainly not the best alternative. Achievable is much
closer in meaning and so would be better.
R
--
Richard Travers
rich...@uwclub.net
Mark Wiggin
Richard Travers <rich...@uwclub.net> wrote:
> In article <01d3e2b...@blueyonder.co.uk>,
> Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <03c397b450.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>
>> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Thanks Jim,
>>> Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
>>> Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
>> Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many people use
>> 'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is perfectly satisfactory, and
>> much more elegant?
> Always happy to trip up a pedant with more pedantry, but the word is doable,
> not do-able. ;-) It is a perfectly legitimate word with a very precise
> meaning (able to be done).
That is how the previous poster spelt it, not how I would.
> I guess it is a matter of opinion whether 'possible' is more elegant than
> 'doable', but it is certainly not the best alternative. Achievable is much
> closer in meaning and so would be better.
Quite agree
> R
--
Mark Wiggin
M Harding
Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <50b5e7a56...@uwclub.net>
> Richard Travers <rich...@uwclub.net> wrote:
> > In article <01d3e2b...@blueyonder.co.uk>,
> > Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> In message <03c397b450.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>
> >> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>> Thanks Jim, Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish
> >>> document, but do-able Still checking whether or not I have the
> >>> original font disk.
> >> Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many people use
> >> 'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is perfectly satisfactory,
> >> and much more elegant?
> > Always happy to trip up a pedant with more pedantry, but the word
> > is doable, not do-able. ;-) It is a perfectly legitimate word
> > with a very precise meaning (able to be done).
> That is how the previous poster spelt it, not how I would.
> > I guess it is a matter of opinion whether 'possible' is more
> > elegant than 'doable', but it is certainly not the best
> > alternative. Achievable is much closer in meaning and so would
> > be better.
> Quite agree
Don't overlook the word 'feasible'. Which, in its medieval French
origin of 'faisible', means "do-able".
John
(News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <01d3e2b...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Mark
> Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many
> > people use 'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is
> > perfectly satisfactory, and much more elegant?
> 'Possible' is/can be more abstract and abstruse -
> 'do-able' has a more practical connotation.
> 'Possible' pairs well with 'but extremely tedious and
> time consuming', whereas 'do-able' has a sense of
> immediate practicality.
> To use 'possible' in this case removes some implied
> meaning, and thus makes the communication poorer IMHO.
> Another tedious old pedant,
Ah, a man after my own heart. I would prefer to use
'feasible' which would seem, to me, to be universally
acceptable. 'Do-able' (or 'doable') might mean the same but
it's an ugly looking thing and sounds even worse.
'Doable' also has the ring of a recent neologism but
Websters Dictionary attributes it to Thomas Carlyle which
puts its coinage somewhere in the 19th century. What makes
it worse in my eyes is that it looks to have transatlantic
origins though, if Carlyle *had* been responsible, it
couldn't have.
--
John
new...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
Alan Calder
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> back in Impression itself, if you need to search the entire document
> for uses of local Effects, rather than Styles, you can do it from the
> usual Search dialogue (F4): search for
> {font CenturyOld.bold}@
> note the "@" meaning "any text" -- methinks that's what Alan was hazy
> about.
> searching for uses of Styles is similar: the dropdown menu at the
> right of the Search dialogue will insert the relevant curlybracketed
> Stylename, which you must follow with an "@" (or the particular text
> you want to find in that style).
Exactly what I was hazy about! Forgot about the @ completely so couldn't
get it to work.
Hazy no longer! Many thanks.
Cheers
Alan
Dave Higton
John <new...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> 'Doable' also has the ring of a recent neologism but
> Websters Dictionary attributes it to Thomas Carlyle which
> puts its coinage somewhere in the 19th century. What makes
> it worse in my eyes is that it looks to have transatlantic
> origins though, if Carlyle *had* been responsible, it
> couldn't have.
Another possible solution is to change the construction of the
sentence slightly, to include words to the effect of "it can
be done".
Dave
John
Indeed, there are probably several ways in which the
thought could have been better expressed.
T M Smith
Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
In my case just an expression I had picked up somewhere.
I will find an alternative in future.
John Williams (News)
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> In my case just an expression I had picked up somewhere.
May I suggest it was on the B&Q advert - complete with hyphen.
> I will find an alternative in future.
Why on earth should you? Express yourself as you wish. This is not a
grammatical/use of English group, it is a RISC OS group.
Why should you be bullied into compliance with someone-else's ideas?
M Harding
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> In message <01d3e2b...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <03c397b450.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>
> > T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >> Thanks Jim,
> >> Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
> >> Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
> >
> > Sorry to be a tedious old pedant, but why do so many people use
> > 'do-able' these days, when 'possible' is perfectly satisfactory,
> > and much more elegant?
> >
> In my case just an expression I had picked up somewhere.
> I will find an alternative in future.
There are more important things in life. Like restoring or replacing a
lost font.
T M Smith
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <76f9a0b650.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>,
> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> In message <01d3e2b...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> Mark Wiggin <mark....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > In message <03c397b450.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>
>> > T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>
>> >> Thanks Jim,
>> >> Sounds rather tedious since it is a longish document, but do-able
>> >> Still checking whether or not I have the original font disk.
Right I have found time to look at search and replace.
I managed to find a black of CenturyOld text and replaced it with the
word Trinity.
What did I do wrong?
Malcolm
>
> Michael Harding
> Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
>
>
>
Alan Calder
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> Right I have found time to look at search and replace.
> I managed to find a black of CenturyOld text and replaced it with the
> word Trinity.
> What did I do wrong?
What happened when you tried?
Which method did you use?
If you Save as Text with With Styles ticked into !Edit then it is important
to replace the name of the font exactly. For example, to replace the
CenturyOld font you need to delete out all the name, which would be
CenturyOld.xxxx, and replace it with Trinity.Medium.
John
Tennant Stuart <ten...@orpheus.co.uk> wrote:
> > 'Doable' also has the ring of a recent neologism but
> > Websters Dictionary attributes it to Thomas Carlyle
> > which puts its coinage somewhere in the 19th century.
> > What makes it worse in my eyes is that it looks to have
> > transatlantic origins though, if Carlyle *had* been
> > responsible, it couldn't have.
> Some words deemed as 'transatlantic' are in fact the
> traditional forms, safeguarded whilst it was we British
> who made changes.
Yes, I know, but having that knowledge doesn't make it more
acceptable (to me). I acknowledge that personal likes and
dislikes are not necessarily a rational basis for deciding
what might be right or wrong (whatever meaning those words
might have in this context). What I was expressing was an
opinion based on my own aesthetic sense.
Rosemary Miskin
<ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> Don't overlook the word 'feasible'. Which, in its medieval French
> origin of 'faisible', means "do-able".
today's ST GK crossword has the clue 'within one's poeers; feasible' with
the answer 'doable'. (I assume: it starts do )
Rosemary
--
Rosemary Miskin ZFC Sm mis...@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk
T M Smith
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
Sorry for the slow reply.
I loaded the impression document then tried the Impression 'search and
replace'
Of course when it loaded it said the CenturyOld fonts had been
substituted.
The document can only be saved as an Impression document though if I
look at the individual chapters there are draw files and a text file
which will load into edit but I could not make much sense of it.
Malcolm
T M Smith
To add to where I am .
I had not loaded the extensions.
Now I have save as text and changed occurences of CenturyOld to
Trinity.medium.
But the file is 'untitled' and so I am rather worried about saving the
file. It would seem that a file equates to a chapter, but I am not
certain.
Alan Calder
<thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>
> > Sorry for the slow reply. I loaded the impression document then tried
> > the Impression 'search and replace' Of course when it loaded it said
> > the CenturyOld fonts had been substituted. The document can only be
> > saved as an Impression document though if I look at the individual
> > chapters there are draw files and a text file which will load into
> > edit but I could not make much sense of it. Malcolm
From what you say above it sounds as though your documeny is using the
original Impression multi-file method of saving rather than the later
single file version. Doesn't make any difference in practical terms for
what you need to do,
> >
> To add to where I am . I had not loaded the extensions. Now I have save
> as text and changed occurences of CenturyOld to Trinity.medium. But the
> file is 'untitled' and so I am rather worried about saving the file. It
> would seem that a file equates to a chapter, but I am not certain.
Essentially that is correct, though it can be more complicated. An
Impression document can have lots of 'stories' within a single chapter -
for example, you could have text that was flowed from page to page in a
series of frames on each page, the frames being independent of any other
text frames on the page.
However if your document is straightforward, just one big text frame on
each page then there shouldn't be a problem. Just do the search and
replace in !Edit and then drop the results back into a new Impression
document. You will have to rebuild the whole document this way.
Alternatively, as long as you aren't working from the original and have
made a copy, you could select all the text in the original and delete it
then save the !Edit version back into the now empty Impression page - this
way you will have all the drawfiles and the like roughly where they should
be.
I'd be happy to have a go - always like this sort of thing! - if you
weren't to email me a copy.
Cheers
Alan
> Malcolm
Jim Nagel
> In article <98f5b9b750.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>, T M Smith
> <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> ... tried the Impression 'search and replace' Of course when it loaded
>>> it said the CenturyOld fonts had been substituted. ...
Alan Calder wrote on 10 Nov:
> I'd be happy to have a go - always like this sort of thing! - if you
> weren't to email me a copy.
how far did you lads get with this? is the problem solved?
the first thing i would have looked at is whether the CenturyOld font
is called by Named Styles in the Impression document. that's by far
the most straightforward place to change to an available font.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Alan Calder
Michael sent me some sample pieces of text. As you suggest, my first
target was to see if the missing fonts were refernced in the document
styles. They were and I replaced them with generic fonts. There were also
some instances of the missing fonts being used as effects in the text and
these were cleared by clearing the effects and, if necessary, replacing
them. A bit of a tedious business this last as finding them took a bit of
time. Exorting the text, with styles, to Edit was useful sometimes to find
where they were.
For some reason the resulting saved document seemed to maintain a 'ghost'
memory of the missing fonts when saved and re-opened. Got round this by
exporting the document as text with styles and re-importing it into an
enpty document.
The ability of Impression to import and override style definitions from
another document came in handy once one document was sorted. All that had
to be done then was to clear any effects and do the export/import business.
I hope Michael has been able to do this on the rest of his documents.
It was fun to do after some 6 years since the last time!
Cheers
Alan
Martin Wuerthner
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> Michael sent me some sample pieces of text. As you suggest, my first
> target was to see if the missing fonts were refernced in the document
> styles. They were and I replaced them with generic fonts. There were also
> some instances of the missing fonts being used as effects in the text and
> these were cleared by clearing the effects and, if necessary, replacing
> them. A bit of a tedious business this last as finding them took a bit of
> time. Exorting the text, with styles, to Edit was useful sometimes to find
> where they were.
It is a bit too late now, but you could have done even that in a
couple of minutes. There is a hidden option in Impression to show
effects on the style menu as well. Even if a specific effect is used
many times in a document, it is stored as a single effect definition,
which can even be edited. So, you can edit all instances of the effect
"CenturyOld" by editing the effect definition, which makes all
instances of the fonts in the document change!
That is possible because in Impression, effects are in fact hidden
styles. Applying the "CenturyOld" font as an effect actually applies
the hidden style "CenturyOld" that is created automatically when you
apply that effect for the first time.
> For some reason the resulting saved document seemed to maintain a 'ghost'
> memory of the missing fonts when saved and re-opened.
Yes. That happens exactly because of the above. The hidden styles
remain in the document even after you remove the effects, so the
document forever remembers that a certain font had been used.
This has been subject to a lot of criticism, which is exactly why that
hidden option was published at some stage. I think it went like this:
Load !Publisher.Resources.UK and locate the line starting "Cnf1:". Add
"E" after the colon. Next time you load the application, you can see
all effects on the dropdown style menu in the tool bar. To edit the
effect, apply it (so it appears ticked). Open the style editor, which
shows it as the current style. Then, edit it.
Martin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
ArtWorks 2 -- Designing stunning graphics has never been easier
spam...@mw-software.com [replace "spamtrap" by "info" to reply]
Brian Carroll
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> ... I think it went like this: Load !Publisher.Resources.UK
> and locate the line starting "Cnf1:". Add "E" after the colon.
> Next time you load the application, you can see all effects on
> the dropdown style menu in the tool bar. To edit the effect,
> apply it (so it appears ticked). Open the style editor, which
> shows it as the current style. Then, edit it.
That is correct. I now always use Impression with the effects
shown as Martin describes, not least because it helps avoid
defining an effect more than once and using an effect when it
would be better to define a style. I keep both entries in the
file mentioned by Martin, and 'REM out' the unwanted one with a
leading colon.
Brian.
--
______________________________________________________________
Brian Carroll, Ripon, N Yorks, UK briancarroll at f2s dot com
______________________________________________________________
Alan Calder
[Snip]
Lots of useful info about revealing Effects in Impression documents.
Thanks for that, Martin! I can vaguely recall this from the distant past.
I'll set my copy up with the amendments immediately - as you say, would
save a lot of work.
Jim Nagel
Martin Wuerthner wrote on 16 Nov in c.s.a.misc:
> ... There is a hidden option in Impression to show
> effects on the style menu as well. Even if a specific effect is used
> many times in a document, it is stored as a single effect definition,
> which can even be edited. ...
> Load !Publisher.Resources.UK and locate the line starting "Cnf1:". Add
> "E" after the colon. ...
well, well, well. i've been using Impression day in day out since
1991 and i never knew that trick. thanks, Martin: another MW
marvel&wonder hint&tip for Archive.
it would be so �bermarvellous&wonderful if you were to take over
Impression as you have CC's Artworks. even just adding a very few
little extra features would win immediate sales, for sure. count me
in if it had just these two things, to bypass current workarounds:
(1) accept JPeg and PNG, (2) print in duplex order.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Abbey Press
Glastonbury
Alan Calder
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> well, well, well. i've been using Impression day in day out since
> 1991 and i never knew that trick. thanks, Martin: another MW
> marvel&wonder hint&tip for Archive.
> it would be so �bermarvellous&wonderful if you were to take over
> Impression as you have CC's Artworks.
Seconded!
Cheers
Alan
[Snip]
Martin Wuerthner
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> [Posted and mailed]
> Martin Wuerthner wrote on 16 Nov in c.s.a.misc:
>> ... There is a hidden option in Impression to show
>> effects on the style menu as well. Even if a specific effect is used
>> many times in a document, it is stored as a single effect definition,
>> which can even be edited. ...
>> Load !Publisher.Resources.UK and locate the line starting "Cnf1:". Add
>> "E" after the colon. ...
> well, well, well. i've been using Impression day in day out since
> 1991 and i never knew that trick. thanks, Martin: another MW
> marvel&wonder hint&tip for Archive.
It was not exactly me who came up with that trick. It was discussed in
the newsgroups many years ago, first in 1993. I would be very
surprised if it was never published in Archive.
Chris Evans
> [Posted and mailed]
>
> Martin Wuerthner wrote on 16 Nov in c.s.a.misc:
> > ... There is a hidden option in Impression to show
> > effects on the style menu as well. Even if a specific effect is used
> > many times in a document, it is stored as a single effect definition,
> > which can even be edited. ...
> > Load !Publisher.Resources.UK and locate the line starting "Cnf1:". Add
> > "E" after the colon. ...
Before loading Impression I changed
Cnf1:
to
Cnf1:E
Loaded a document with various 'effects' applied nothing seemed to appear so
I quit Impression, removed the E and reloaded, still the same standard
looking entries in Menu->Style
Using Publisher Plus 5.13, what am I doing wrong?
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
John
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> It was not exactly me who came up with that trick. It was
> discussed in the newsgroups many years ago, first in
> 1993. I would be very surprised if it was never
> published in Archive.
Earliest mention is in Volume 4, Issue 6, page 10. It's
also appeared in Volumes, 5, 8, 11 and 19.
I'd forgotten all about it, having re-installed Impression
several times on newer set-ups. It's now back in action.
Thanks for reminding me, Martin.
John
Jim Nagel
> It was not exactly me who came up with that trick. It was discussed in
> the newsgroups many years ago, first in 1993. I would be very
> surprised if it was never published in Archive.
indeed Paul Beverley chode me yesterday upon seeing my surprise:
Oh, come on, Jim! Don't you read Archive? It's been in
Archive seven times! :-)
his attached list:
4:6 hints and tips (1991 March, earlier than MW mentions)
5:6 DTP column
8:3 hints and tips
9:1 hints and tips
11:5 hints and tips
then an eight-yearg gap till
19:5 hints and tips
19:12 learners' column
i guess another repeat in volume 22 won't hurt.
hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about
the �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
--
>>> no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Jim Nagel
...
> Cnf1:E
> Loaded a document with various 'effects' applied nothing seemed to appear so
> I quit Impression, removed the E and reloaded, still the same standard
> looking entries in Menu->Style
> Using Publisher Plus 5.13, what am I doing wrong?
works for me, also using 5.13. entries such as "Effect25" and
"Centre" now appear in the Styles menu, alongside the familiar styles
such as Heading and Indent.
--
>>> nabsolute no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Martin Wuerthner
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about
> the �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
I am not aware of Impression being on offer for being taken on...
Yet even if it was, there is no way I could take it on. I have too
many projects on my hands already.
Steve Fryatt
<f755b3b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
> hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about the
> �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
You don't think that the current developer of the 32-bit version of
Impression might have some objections?
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
Alan Calder
<ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19 Nov, Jim Nagel wrote in message
> <f755b3b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
> > hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about
> > the �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
> You don't think that the current developer of the 32-bit version of
> Impression might have some objections?
Given that XAT's website hasn't shown any sign of progress 8 May 2006 then
the description 'developer' seems a bit strong!
Or do you have inside knowledge of wht is going on (or not)?
Steve Fryatt
<50bcde3086...@o2.co.uk>:
> In article <mpro.ktdo5601...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > On 19 Nov, Jim Nagel wrote in message
> > <f755b3b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
>
> > > hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about
> > > the �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
>
> > You don't think that the current developer of the 32-bit version of
> > Impression might have some objections?
>
> Given that XAT's website hasn't shown any sign of progress 8 May 2006 then
> the description 'developer' seems a bit strong!
A smiley might have helped, I suppose.
> Or do you have inside knowledge of wht is going on (or not)?
None at all; I stopped using Impression when the Iyonix came out, and
haven't looked back (O-Pro has always seemed vastly superior for what I do).
However, I would imagine that even were Martin to want to take it on (and
he's been quite clear that he does not), he would need to get through the
red tape of the fact that someone else owns it and may not wish to give it
up. A lot of software dies like that.
Martin Wynn
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19 Nov, Jim Nagel wrote in message
> <f755b3b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
>
>> hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about the
>> �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
>
> You don't think that the current developer of the 32-bit version of
> Impression might have some objections?
Cough! Your dictionary obviously has the word "developer" defined
differently to to mine! Someone who has sat on the software for ?
years and has put the Impression and RiscOS part of his site in
archive mode can hardly be called a developer by any stretch of the
imagination!
Martin.
--
Martin Wynn, Newport, Shropshire.
A. HTML.
Q. What are the two most annoying things about emails?
T M Smith
T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> In message <a0fbe6b...@mw004f6960.blueyonder.co.uk>
> Martin Wynn <m.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <mpro.ktdo5601...@stevefryatt.org.uk>
>> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19 Nov, Jim Nagel wrote in message
>>> <f755b3b...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>> hmm, i note that Martin did not rise to the bait, duly seconded, about the
>>>> �bermarvelwonder of taking on Impression.
>>>
>>> You don't think that the current developer of the 32-bit version of
>>> Impression might have some objections?
>>
>> Cough! Your dictionary obviously has the word "developer" defined
>> differently to to mine! Someone who has sat on the software for ?
>> years and has put the Impression and RiscOS part of his site in
>> archive mode can hardly be called a developer by any stretch of the
>> imagination!
>>
>> Martin.
>>
I have tried 'Martins' method for changing a font in Impression and
it works for me so thank you Martin and others who contributed,
especially Alan.
My copy of Impression is version 4.11. I have the copy of OPro
(crippled!) that came bundled with the Iyo and so I am wondering if
there is any advantage in upgrading to V5.13 of Impression that some
have or would I be better advised to go to OPro.
Malcolm Smith
Jim Nagel
...
> My copy of Impression is version 4.11. ... I am wondering if there is
> any advantage in upgrading to V5.13 of Impression that some have...
just to clarify:
4.11 is Impression Publisher, and the latest version was 4.13.
versions starting with 5 are Impression Publisher /Plus/, and the
latest version was 5.13.
versions starting with 3 are Impression Style.
the figure after the decimal point was the same for all three; updates
came out in parallel, for all three simultaneously. i think i
remember aright that .13 was the StrongArm upgrade and with it the
dongle was no longer needed.
the Plus version has certain extra features for professional use.
three of them are Named Colours, a new colour editor and a
colour-separation system. i can't find a list of exactly what the
rest are, but some of them (such as wordcount options) were later
included in Publisher by the time of version 4.13.
according to http://cconcepts.co.uk/products/versions.htm the upgrade
to 4.13 from your 4.11 is free.
personally, i've tried hard to get used to OPro, but i'm so used to
Impression that i find the switch difficult. (i actually bought
Impression /before/ buying my first Archimedes machine and have used
it day in day out ever since, and i know all its nooks and crannies
(well, almost) and i still enjoy using it.) in particular i find
Impression's internal language, DDF, so much friendlier than OPro's
DDL.
--
>>> nabsolutely no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Abbey Press
Glastonbury
T M Smith
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks for that info Jim.
I cannot remember using a dongle, and I did use a StrongArm.
I must look through my stuff, but there is a pamphlet regarding colour
separations.
Malcolm
T M Smith
Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <2822dfb...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>, Jim Nagel
> <URL:mailto:jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
>> T M Smith wrote on 20 Nov:
>> ...
>> > My copy of Impression is version 4.11. ... I am wondering if there is
>> > any advantage in upgrading to V5.13 of Impression that some have...
>>
>> just to clarify:
>> 4.11 is Impression Publisher, and the latest version was 4.13.
>> versions starting with 5 are Impression Publisher /Plus/, and the
>> latest version was 5.13.
>> versions starting with 3 are Impression Style.
>> the figure after the decimal point was the same for all three; updates
>> came out in parallel, for all three simultaneously. i think i
>> remember aright that .13 was the StrongArm upgrade and with it the
>> dongle was no longer needed.
>
> The StrongArm update (which was chargeable) was before .13 I'm not sure
> which version I suspect from your note about free updates from .11 it may
> have been that.
>
>> the Plus version has certain extra features for professional use.
>> three of them are Named Colours, a new colour editor and a
>> colour-separation system. i can't find a list of exactly what the
>> rest are, but some of them (such as wordcount options) were later
>> included in Publisher by the time of version 4.13.
>>
>> according to http://cconcepts.co.uk/products/versions.htm the upgrade
>> to 4.13 from your 4.11 is free.
>
> Unfortunatly some years ago the computer CC used to do updates stopped
> working and they decided at the time to stop offering free or chargeable
> updates.
>
> We have in stock a number of second hand copies that are the latest .13
> version. Which I belive is the only way to now get later versions, and as
> stocks are low the price isn't.
>
>> personally, i've tried hard to get used to OPro, but i'm so used to
>> Impression that i find the switch difficult. (i actually bought
>> Impression /before/ buying my first Archimedes machine and have used
>> it day in day out ever since, and i know all its nooks and crannies
>> (well, almost) and i still enjoy using it.) in particular i find
>> Impression's internal language, DDF, so much friendlier than OPro's
>> DDL.
>>
>>
>
>
> Chris Evans
>
It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
However I also use Easiwriter which is fairly up to date
Alan Calder
> >
> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
> However I also use Easiwriter which is fairly up to date
As fara as I can remember there is little practical difference between
Publisher 4.11 ( which you have) and v4.13. I think I didn't bother to
update from 4.11 to 4,13 myself as it offered nothing I needed. I could be
wrong after all these years but I think not.
Much as I admire Easiwriter, Publisher (or OvPro) is just so much easier
for me to get my head around. And there is no debate if what you need to
do is any form of DTP.
Steve Fryatt
<afbae2be50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>:
[Impression Updates, or lack of]
> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
O-Pro? It loads Impression documents fine, and after the initial learning
curve I've never regretted making the jump (which I did seven years ago).
At least you then have an "exit strategy" to another OS, too.
Steve Fryatt
<2822dfb...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>:
> personally, i've tried hard to get used to OPro, but i'm so used to
> Impression that i find the switch difficult.
I was similar; I'd used Impression since 1993(ish), and despite buying O-Pro
in 2000 when APDL did an offer for Archive readers, it took three years and
Impression's lack of 32-bit-ness to make me finally change.
Now, when I occasionally see Impression in use, I *really* don't regret
having made the switch. The only problem is not being able to send people
Impression documents, but so far I'm only aware of one person who would find
them preferable to O-Pro format. ;-)
Oh, and O-Pro lacks widow and orphan control, along with keep together and
"repeating frames".
> in particular i find Impression's internal language, DDF, so much
> friendlier than OPro's DDL.
To be fair, they aren't really the same thing.
DDF is a simple markup language, which can apply style and basic formatting.
DDL can be the same, but it can also describe an entire document (frames,
graphics and all) in a textual format -- DDF can not do this.
If you want to do DDF-like things with O-Pro, then use DDF via O-Pro's DDF
Importer. I do this regularly, as it saves trying to write DDL for simple
tasks.
druck
[Lots of previous messages unnecessarily quoted]
> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
> However I also use Easiwriter which is fairly up to date
Please do some snipping when you reply.
---druck
T M Smith
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> T M Smith wrote:
>
> [Lots of previous messages unnecessarily quoted]
> Please do some snipping when you reply.
>
> ---druck
Sorry, oversight, I do not like needlessly long messages either.
Malcolm
T M Smith
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 23 Nov, T M Smith wrote in message
> <afbae2be50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>:
>
> [Impression Updates, or lack of]
>
>> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
>
> O-Pro? It loads Impression documents fine, and after the initial learning
> curve I've never regretted making the jump (which I did seven years ago).
> At least you then have an "exit strategy" to another OS, too.
>
Since I already have a machine on the dark side I will have a look at
the bundled O-Pro that came with the Iyo. I just may find it is worth
changing though like Alan I feel at home with Publisher.
M Harding
> > On 23 Nov, T M Smith wrote in message
> > <afbae2be50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>:
> >
> > [Impression Updates, or lack of]
> >
> >> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
> >
> > O-Pro? It loads Impression documents fine, and after the initial
> > learning curve I've never regretted making the jump (which I did
> > seven years ago). At least you then have an "exit strategy" to
> > another OS, too.
> >
> Since I already have a machine on the dark side I will have a look
> at the bundled O-Pro that came with the Iyo. I just may find it is
> worth changing though like Alan I feel at home with Publisher.
I found the changeover to OPro irritating at first since it doesn't
always follow the same conventions - you have to go to the bottom of
the work to embolden, italicise etc. instead of to the top as in
Publisher; a Ctrl-A doesn't select all the text, it needs
Ctrl-Shift-A; Ctrl-I doesn't provide a new frame.
And then I began to notice improvements - you get a new frame via a
mouse click, but you need the mouse anyway to drag out the size of the
frame; you have the opportunity to undo the last action, or to redo
it. Removing or making visible all the frame outlines is done with the
mouse. (And doubtless there are shortcuts not using the mouse.)
In the end, I find I tend to use Publisher on the Kinetic for basic
stuff, but O-Pro on the XP where monthly I produce a 36-page A5
leaflet and it needs more finesse.
VRPC has several advantages. First of all it's incredibly fast even
with 36-page documents. Then it's also easy to process images using
Photoshop Elements and save them directly within VRPC's HD. It also
means that you can Ctrl-C text in a Word document and it's on the VRPC
clipboard for Ctrl-V insertion (I think that may be restricted to
SA-VRPC).
Steve's right, it's worth persevering. I can't imagine using the XP
version of O-Pro because I prefer to work with a RISC OS GUI and my
stock of graphics are in that format. (How does one convert Draw files
to Windows?)
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
John Sandford
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <2cde63bf50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>,
> T M Smith <thomas....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> In message <mpro.ktl3l001...@stevefryatt.org.uk>
>> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23 Nov, T M Smith wrote in message
>>> <afbae2be50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>:
>>>
>>> [Impression Updates, or lack of]
>>>
>>>> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
>>>
>>> O-Pro? It loads Impression documents fine, and after the initial
>>> learning curve I've never regretted making the jump (which I did
>>> seven years ago). At least you then have an "exit strategy" to
>>> another OS, too.
>>>
>> Since I already have a machine on the dark side I will have a look
>> at the bundled O-Pro that came with the Iyo. I just may find it is
>> worth changing though like Alan I feel at home with Publisher.
> I found the changeover to OPro irritating at first since it doesn't
> always follow the same conventions - you have to go to the bottom of
> the work to embolden, italicise etc. instead of to the top as in
> Publisher; a Ctrl-A doesn't select all the text, it needs
> Ctrl-Shift-A; Ctrl-I doesn't provide a new frame.
You can move the info palette, better still switch it off and put some
buttons on the the button bar to do the same things,also you can use
keypresses to change text effects.
[snip]
>
> Michael Harding
> Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
John
--
John Sandford West Herts UK
Hemel Hempstead RISC OS User Group email info @ hhrug.org
John Williams (News)
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> How does one convert Draw files to Windows?
Would Spr2Png help?
Home link:
<URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.graphics.html#spr2png>
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/ Somewhere nice to stay in Brittany? http://petit.four.free.fr/visitors/locate
M Harding
John Williams (News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <50bfaf86...@mdharding.org.uk>,
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > How does one convert Draw files to Windows?
> Would Spr2Png help?
> Home link:
> <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.graphics.html#spr2png>
I think that'll do nicely, thank you. I've just converted a Draw file
to a .png and it worked even in Photoshop Elements.
Wish-list 2. I suppose one can't actually convert a Draw file into a
Windows vector file, to remove the saw-tooth edges effect?
David Holden
On 25-Nov-2009, M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> (How does one convert Draw files to Windows?
You can export Drawfiles as SVG from Draw directly using later versions of
RISC OS or DrawWorks XL can export as SVG with earlier versions of Draw.
--
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>
Alan Calder
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Wish-list 2. I suppose one can't actually convert a Draw file into a
> Windows vector file, to remove the saw-tooth edges effect?
Should be possible, depending on what you have on Windows. Xara Studio
used to import Artworks files and maybe Draw as well. Not sure abou the
latest version but it claims EPS and PDF - both of which Artworks will
export if you have it!
On a similar level I have Keith Sloan's Draw->WMF which converts to the
Windows WMF format. These seem to load happily into OpenWriter, etc. Not
sure what the limitations are but at first glance seems to work OK.
There used to ba a piece of software aimed primarily at schools
transferring from RO to Windows. Can't remember the name or publisher but
it basically tried to make a Windows version of Draw - it could both export
and import Draw files. Did a pretty good job as I remember. Maybe it is
still around somewhere - wonder if RM took it under their wing?
Cheers
Alan
[Snip]
Ray Dawson
> > Since I already have a machine on the dark side I will have a look at
> > the bundled O-Pro that came with the Iyo. I just may find it is worth
> > changing though like Alan I feel at home with Publisher.
>
> I found the changeover to OPro irritating at first since it doesn't always
> follow the same conventions - you have to go to the bottom of the work to
> embolden, italicise etc. instead of to the top as in Publisher; a Ctrl-A
> doesn't select all the text, it needs Ctrl-Shift-A; Ctrl-I doesn't provide
> a new frame.
All the keyboard short cuts in Ovation Pro are configurable. The first thing
I did was to make them the same as - or similar to - Publisher.
Cheers,
Ray D
John Williams (News)
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> Wish-list 2. I suppose one can't actually convert a Draw file into a
> Windows vector file, to remove the saw-tooth edges effect?
If it's just to "remove the saw-tooth edges effect", then scale your
Drawfiles larger before conversion to png, or, at least, have them large
enough.
The effect you describe will only happen if you try to scale the png /up/.
John Williams (News)
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> There used to ba a piece of software aimed primarily at schools
> transferring from RO to Windows. Can't remember the name or publisher
> but it basically tried to make a Windows version of Draw - it could both
> export and import Draw files. Did a pretty good job as I remember.
> Maybe it is still around somewhere - wonder if RM took it under their
> wing?
OakDraw - but it couldn't handle text areas.
Alan Calder
<Spa...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25-Nov-2009, M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > (How does one convert Draw files to Windows?
> You can export Drawfiles as SVG from Draw directly using later versions
> of RISC OS or DrawWorks XL can export as SVG with earlier versions of
> Draw.
I've tried this but how do you persuade Windows programs to accept SVG? I
looked at the SVG viewer from Adobe but noted that they have withdrawn
support for the program so presumably it is a dead format as far Windows is
concerned?
Cheers
Alan
Alan Calder
<UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <50bfbe8de4...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
> <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> > There used to ba a piece of software aimed primarily at schools
> > transferring from RO to Windows. Can't remember the name or publisher
> > but it basically tried to make a Windows version of Draw - it could
> > both export and import Draw files. Did a pretty good job as I
> > remember. Maybe it is still around somewhere - wonder if RM took it
> > under their wing?
> OakDraw - but it couldn't handle text areas.
Ah, I'd forgotten OakDraw but that wasn't the one - the one I'm thinking of
was a bit more impressive. Not suer what happened with text areas there
but Convert to Path would presumably get the text across in a non-editable
form.
Looks like I'm going to have to fire up the ancient Viglen at my feet - I
had it on there.
Cheers
Alan
Alan Calder
<UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <50bfbe8de4...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
> <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> > There used to ba a piece of software aimed primarily at schools
> > transferring from RO to Windows. Can't remember the name or publisher
> > but it basically tried to make a Windows version of Draw - it could
> > both export and import Draw files. Did a pretty good job as I
> > remember. Maybe it is still around somewhere - wonder if RM took it
> > under their wing?
> OakDraw - but it couldn't handle text areas.
Following on from previous post I should mention that it has the great
advantage of still being available and free!
Thanks for mentioning it!
John Williams (News)
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> Following on from previous post I should mention that it has the great
> advantage of still being available and free!
Better remind people, then, that it accepts 'file extension' aff - so add
/aff to your drawfiles at the RISC OS end to have them recognised!
Dave Symes
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Steve's right, it's worth persevering. I can't imagine using the XP
> version of O-Pro because I prefer to work with a RISC OS GUI and my
> stock of graphics are in that format. (How does one convert Draw files
> to Windows?)
Do what I do, take the expletive "draw/aff" file and drop it in a Win
OvPro Frame.
I have both RO and Win OvPro and work on "documents/dpd" between them
both, I really don't know why folks make such a meal out of using
either... I don't have time to waste farting about converting this that
and the other, into this that and something else.
Take the Damn "Drawfile/aff" or "Sprite/spr" and drop it in to a Win OvPro
frame, adjust as required, job done, move on the the next bit.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
T M Smith
>
>> > On 23 Nov, T M Smith wrote in message
>> > <afbae2be50.Broadband@thomas/smith57.ntlworld.com>:
>> >
>> > [Impression Updates, or lack of]
>> >
>> >> It sounds as though I may be stuck then.
>> >
>> > O-Pro? It loads Impression documents fine, and after the initial
>> > learning curve I've never regretted making the jump (which I did
>> > seven years ago). At least you then have an "exit strategy" to
>> > another OS, too.
>> >
>> Since I already have a machine on the dark side I will have a look
>> at the bundled O-Pro that came with the Iyo. I just may find it is
>> worth changing though like Alan I feel at home with Publisher.
>
> I found the changeover to OPro irritating at first since it doesn't
> always follow the same conventions -
The largest file crashed O-Pro
May find time to check again tonight
Steve Fryatt
<50bfc0d7ce...@o2.co.uk>:
> I've tried this but how do you persuade Windows programs to accept SVG? I
> looked at the SVG viewer from Adobe but noted that they have withdrawn
> support for the program so presumably it is a dead format as far Windows
> is concerned?
Inkscape reads them (and uses them as its native format). Its interface is
a bit quirky, but it shouldn't be too unusual for someone who has used
ArtWorks or Xara. Most things, at least once you manage to find them, do as
their names would suggest...
Ollie Clark
Yep. Draw will export as an SVG which many programs will read (Inkscape
for one, GIMP for another, both free, both good). There's also !Draw2WMF
which will convert it to a Windows Meta File (although a fairly poor one).
My recommendation is convert to SVG, open it in Inkscape on the dark side
and export in whatever format you need. You may want to convert text to
paths if you have any to avoid any font problems.
I've been doing a lot of this lately. I designed the logo on
www.ilovefreegle.org in Draw and needless to say, lots of people want it
in some sort of Windows format. I've tried to get them to use RO but no
dice.
My workflow for creating an exact size PNG is to use Draw2Sprite to
convert to a sprite at the correct size then paint to convert to a PNG.
You could also do this by converting to SVG, opening in Inkscape and then
exporting.
Cheers,
Ollie
Ollie Clark
> In article <50bfb6ae...@mdharding.org.uk>,
> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>
> [Snip]
>
>> Wish-list 2. I suppose one can't actually convert a Draw file into a
>> Windows vector file, to remove the saw-tooth edges effect?
>
> Windows WMF format. These seem to load happily into OpenWriter, etc. Not
> sure what the limitations are but at first glance seems to work OK.
Limitation is that it appears not to support curves so any curves get
recreated as hundreds of short straight lines.
Cheers,
Ollie
Martin Wuerthner
Ollie Clark <use...@ollieclark.com> wrote:
That is not a limitation of Draw->WMF but a limitation of the WMF
format itself. Only EMF files (enhanced metafile) support curves.
Martin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
ArtWorks 2 -- Designing stunning graphics has never been easier
spam...@mw-software.com [replace "spamtrap" by "info" to reply]
Ollie Clark
> In message <slrnhgter7...@greedy.zen175545>
> Ollie Clark <use...@ollieclark.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Calder wrote:
>>> In article <50bfb6ae...@mdharding.org.uk>,
>>> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> [Snip]
>>>
>>>> Wish-list 2. I suppose one can't actually convert a Draw file into a
>>>> Windows vector file, to remove the saw-tooth edges effect?
>>>
>>> On a similar level I have Keith Sloan's Draw->WMF which converts to the
>>> Windows WMF format. These seem to load happily into OpenWriter, etc. Not
>>> sure what the limitations are but at first glance seems to work OK.
>
>> Limitation is that it appears not to support curves so any curves get
>> recreated as hundreds of short straight lines.
>
> That is not a limitation of Draw->WMF but a limitation of the WMF
> format itself. Only EMF files (enhanced metafile) support curves.
Thanks for confirming that. I remembered it from years ago but assumed
that this far down the line, WMFs would have had that basic functionality
added. I can now go back to people and say "No, you can't have it as a
WMF because they aren't good enough." :-)
Cheers,
Ollie
Dave Symes
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Should be possible, depending on what you have on Windows. Xara Studio
> used to import Artworks files and maybe Draw as well. Not sure abou the
> latest version but it claims EPS and PDF - both of which Artworks will
> export if you have it!
I though I'd try loading or importing a "drawfile.aff" or "Drawfile.drw"
in to Xara Xtreme, It doesn't do it.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Richard Travers
It certainly does (just done it). I have version 4, what version do you
have?
R
--
Richard Travers
rich...@uwclub.net
Dave Symes
> R
I'm not sure and I don't have Ubuntu running ATM to check.
Guess I should have mentioned it's a native Linux Ubuntu version.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Alan Calder
That's very true but not the fault of Draw->WMF. WMF files aren't true
vector ones, as I understand it, and all curves are rendered as short
lines.
Amazes me that there isn't such a simple universal format available on
Windows. Microsoft grabbed everything else they could from all over the
place - I wonder why not a proper drawing tool?
Dave Symes
Alan Calder <alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> Amazes me that there isn't such a simple universal format available on
> Windows. Microsoft grabbed everything else they could from all over the
> place - I wonder why not a proper drawing tool?
> Cheers
> Alan
Because yer average user...
1) Has no idea what a Vector file format is.
2) Is just a point and click Ethel or Fred, who is just about aware that a
Jpeg is the file that comes out of 'yer' digital camera. (RAW need some
soothing ointment). ;-)
Other bitmap file formats like Tiff, PNG and so on, are as alien to them
as SVGs or Metafiles.
So there really was no incentive for MS to purloin any real Vector
application formats or applications.
(You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in MS-Office.)
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Jim Nagel
> You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in MS-Office.
what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
[PS: note change of thread title, some while ago]
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Dave Symes
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
> > You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in MS-Office.
> what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
> [PS: note change of thread title, some while ago]
Yea... Sorry Jim, I replied from a posting pre the subject change. (Too
much brain engaged on a Re: problem elsewhere).
Standard Meta file to the clipboard, then pasted in to many other suitable
apps... Inkscape, AspexDraw, PSP etc. But *Not* OakDraw.
Nb: AspexDraw can output as Drawfile.aff
Nb2: It can also load Drawfiles.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Russell Hafter News
> Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
> > You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in
> > MS-Office.
> what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
> [PS: note change of thread title, some while ago]
But, to reiterate some of the comments elsewhere recently,
you did not start a new thread, so those of us using
threaded mail readers see it all as part of the same thread,
unless we notice the changed heading and conciously unlink
threads.
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Dave Symes
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <e4aa14c...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>, Jim Nagel
> <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> > Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
> > > You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in
> > > MS-Office.
> > what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
> > [PS: note change of thread title, some while ago]
> But, to reiterate some of the comments elsewhere recently,
> you did not start a new thread, so those of us using
> threaded mail readers see it all as part of the same thread,
> unless we notice the changed heading and conciously unlink
> threads.
And Raspberries to you Russell! ;-)
Cheers
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Martin Wuerthner
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <e4aa14c...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>, Jim Nagel
> <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
>>> You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in
>>> MS-Office.
>> what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
>> [PS: note change of thread title, some while ago]
> But, to reiterate some of the comments elsewhere recently,
> you did not start a new thread
Of course not - it *is* still the same thread. It would be wrong to
start a new thread when replying to an existing post. If a thread has
drifted then a change of subject is sometimes necessary, but that does
not change the fact that it is still one thread. That is precisely why
a decent mail reader shows threads by thread references, not by
subject.
Subject = the topic the current (sub-)thread is about
Thread = the hierarchy of all replies to an original message
> so those of us using threaded mail readers see it all as part of the
> same thread,
Which is exactly as intended. Changing the subject loses the thread
link in stupid mail readers that work on subject lines only, so their
users usually complain that the thread is "broken" when a user changes
subject.
> unless we notice the changed heading and conciously unlink
> threads.
If you really want that behaviour you might be able to switch your
mail client to the (inferior) subject threading method.
Russell Hafter News
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> It would be wrong to start a new thread when replying to
> an existing post.
That is the whole point. Many people start new thread by
replying to an existing post. I admit to having done it
myself before I learnt how threading works. People often do
not know any better.
You may be fortunate in that you do not see that happening
often, or even at all. I regularly see, elsewhere, a 'reply'
to a thread called, say, "Ordnance Survey Maps" where the
Subject is "Contacting Joe Smith".
I am interested in maps, but I do not know anyone called Joe
Smith. I see in Pluto that there is a new message in the
"Ordnance Survey Maps" thread. Only when I open the message
to read it do I find that it is nothing to do with the
thread.
> If a thread has drifted then a change of
> subject is sometimes necessary, but that does not change
> the fact that it is still one thread.
Sorry, but I dispute that. In my opinion, if the Subject
changes then it is de facto a new thread, and nothing can
alter that.
Which is why Pluto has the unlink thread option, to deal
with this situation.
> That is precisely why a decent mail reader shows threads
> by thread references, not by subject.
Of course.
> Subject = the topic the current (sub-)thread is about
> Thread = the hierarchy of all replies to an original
> message
Sorry, but I cannot agree with that.
Thread = the hierarchy of all replies to an original
message on the same topic and with the same Subject.
Jim Nagel
> Of course.
sorry for quoting all the above, but it illustrates the drift.
so what's the correct procedure now, so that the subject line for
replies to this message will indicate that folks are no longer talking
about "Draw/Vector", let alone "Impression marvel&wonder" or
"Missing�font"?
--
>>> no need to reply my entire message back to me ;=]
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Russell Hafter News
<jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> so what's the correct procedure now, so that the subject
> line for replies to this message will indicate that
> folks are no longer talking about "Draw/Vector", let
> alone "Impression marvel&wonder" or "Missing font"?
Well, if it we me that was changing the subject, I would
start a new thread, copy the ols subject into the subect
line, surround it with brackets and insert 'was', and then
preceed it my new Subect.
As to the body, I would click reply on the e-mail I was
commenting on, then cut and paste from the 'reply' to my new
message window and then close the unwanted 'reply'.
But that is just what I would do.
Martin, I guess, would decide otherwise.
Martin Wuerthner
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <422575c...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>, Jim Nagel
> <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
>> so what's the correct procedure now, so that the subject
>> line for replies to this message will indicate that
>> folks are no longer talking about "Draw/Vector", let
>> alone "Impression marvel&wonder" or "Missing font"?
> Well, if it we me that was changing the subject, I would
> start a new thread, copy the ols subject into the subect
> line, surround it with brackets and insert 'was', and then
> preceed it my new Subect.
> As to the body, I would click reply on the e-mail I was
> commenting on, then cut and paste from the 'reply' to my new
> message window and then close the unwanted 'reply'.
> But that is just what I would do.
Which creates a broken message. You reply to a message and quote part
of it, but you prevent your readers from navigating to the original
message easily because you deliberately break the link to it. Why
would that be a good idea? All that extra work just to stop things
from working the way they were designed to work?
> Martin, I guess, would decide otherwise.
This is not a question of decisions, it is a question of the official
rules, which are called netiquette. The rules for threading and
quoting in newsgroups have been in place for decades. The rules for
this situation say: change the subject line (in the way you described
above) and keep thread references (which happens automatically when
you reply to a message). The reason is quite simply that I quote your
text, so the References list of my message must contain the id of your
message and that makes my message part of the thread.
That is very different from the typical newbie mistake where they try
creating a new thread by replying to an existing message, deleting all
the text and filling in a new subject. That is wrong because it
creates a reference to the original article even though the new one is
not related and does not quote from the other article.
Martin Wuerthner
Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
>> You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in MS-Office.
> what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
There is no file format. Or, to be more exact, there is a file format
but it only occurs as part of some other binary file format, e.g.,
Word or Excel. AFAIK MS Office drawings cannot live in files on their
own, therefore there is no file extension defined for them. The only
place where they can exist on their own is on the clipboard, to allow
them to be pasted between MS Office applications. In theory, other
applications that support that format could paste such drawings into
their documents, but I am not aware of any programs that do. One of
the reasons is probably that the file format specification was not
available until recently. It has only been published in Feburary 2008.
Dave Symes
Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <e4aa14c...@nails.ukonline.co.uk>
> Jim Nagel <jimn...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> > Dave Symes wrote on 29 Nov:
> >> You can do some drawing with the Draw facilities in MS-Office.
> > what file format does that use? do other apps accept it?
[Snip]
> In theory, other
> applications that support that format could paste such drawings into
> their documents, but I am not aware of any programs that do. One of
> the reasons is probably that the file format specification was not
> available until recently. It has only been published in Feburary 2008.
> Martin
Pardon...
Did you not see my posting of 9:08 this morning (Fri 30th)?
***********
Standard Meta file to the clipboard, then pasted in to many other suitable
apps... Inkscape, AspexDraw, PSP etc. But *Not* OakDraw.
Nb: AspexDraw can output as Drawfile.aff
Nb2: It can also load Drawfiles.
**********
Worth noting I think.
I've just created a drawing in Word 2007, grouped all the elements, copied
to the clipboard, then pasted in to Inkscape, AspexDraw, PaintShop Pro and
even Win Ovation Pro, to name but a few.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Russell Hafter News
Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> Which creates a broken message.
Only if the part quoted were relevant to the subject, in
which case, obviously, the question does not arise.
> You reply to a message and quote part of it, but you
> prevent your readers from navigating to the original
> message easily because you deliberately break the link to
> it. Why would that be a good idea?
Because the part of the message being replied to has nothing
to do with the subject.
The original mesage that started the original thread is
irrelevant to what is now under discussion: what we are
discussing now has nothing to do with either Draw/Vector
files or missing fonts in Impression, which is why we have a
new subject and I, at least have a new thread.
If someone is really interested in how this started, then
they can refer to the previous threads using the was:
information.
But in practice, why would they want to?
I only came into the original thread at the Draw/Vector
stage, having no interest at all in Impression, so anything
in the original Missing Font/Impression discussion got
deleted unread.
Martin Wuerthner
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <ffd77cc2...@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
> Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
>> Which creates a broken message.
> Only if the part quoted were relevant to the subject, in
> which case, obviously, the question does not arise.
If the part quoted was not relevant you would not quote it.
>> You reply to a message and quote part of it, but you
>> prevent your readers from navigating to the original
>> message easily because you deliberately break the link to
>> it. Why would that be a good idea?
> Because the part of the message being replied to has nothing
> to do with the subject.
Of course it has. Threads tend to change subject over time. At some
stage someone decides to change the subject line to reflect that. The
message this person replies to is already about the new subject.
Therefore, the text that is quoted is relevant and therefore both
messages belong to the same discussion thread.
Look at my first message with the subject "Netiquette". It has a new
subject line but it replies to a message that is about quoting and
threads already despite its subject line being "Draw/Vector". There is
absolutely no reason why my message should not belong to the same
thread as the message it replies to.
> The original mesage that started the original thread is
> irrelevant to what is now under discussion
True, but I never claimed anyone would want to go back to the original
message of the original thread. My point is that if you reply to a
message then someone might want to go back to the message you replied
to and this is what the reference links are there for.
Anyway, this is way off-topic for this group, so this is the last I
have to say on this matter.
Vince M Hudd
[...]
> The original mesage that started the original thread is irrelevant to what
> is now under discussion: what we are discussing now has nothing to do with
> either Draw/Vector files or missing fonts in Impression, which is why we
> have a new subject and I, at least have a new thread.
However, the discussion's *history* is what led us here, and that *might* be
relevant. That history is presented to readers who might wish to refer to it
in the References: headers.
> If someone is really interested in how this started, then they can refer
> to the previous threads using the was: information.
Except that means opening up that thread, and opening up articles that
*might* be the one(s) the reader wishes to see. Compare with opening the
headers and using the References: header to open up the exact messages.
Your suggested approach breaks that.
Martin's - which is the correct one, being standard netiquette - doesn't.
You have the option in Pluto, as you know having mentioned it already, to
"split" a thread from any given article. Doing this doesn't break the
headers - they remain intact and correct; only Pluto's internal references
are changed. That's the point of the option - you can see the continuation
of a thread as a new one when it drifts without inconveniencing others.
(It's niceties like that that make Pluto, IMO, one of the better news/mail
clients out there.)
--
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
http://www.softrock.co.uk
http://misc.vinceh.com