Cracking Virtual Acorn
Richard Torrens (news)
having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
No: I do not want to go into details in public: it would accomplish
nothing! Nor do I want to go to law (though I would clearly win).
However - I now have the right (which could almost cerainly be justified
in court) to crack the software myself (except I have returned the CD etc
to VA). But I am not a programmer and would hardly know where to start
(though I am informed SoftIce and DA Pro are the tools needed)
However - I am also informed that there is a ready cracked version of the
program. Anyone know its whereabouts? (Off list please!)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. N.B. email address nos...@4qd.org is valid.
All email addresses are copyright. Resale or use on any lists is expressly forbidden.
4QD manufacture speed controllers for battery electric motors.
www sites http://www.4QD.org and http://www.4QD.co.uk
---------- We use a RISC PC 32 bit RISC computer ----------------
Peter Naulls
> As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
> having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
>
>
> No: I do not want to go into details in public: it would accomplish
> nothing! Nor do I want to go to law (though I would clearly win).
>
>
> However - I now have the right (which could almost cerainly be justified
> in court) to crack the software myself (except I have returned the CD etc
> to VA). But I am not a programmer and would hardly know where to start
> (though I am informed SoftIce and DA Pro are the tools needed)
>
>
> However - I am also informed that there is a ready cracked version of the
> program. Anyone know its whereabouts? (Off list please!)
I'm sure your rights are valid, and IANAL, but I'm also sure you
cannot justify software piracy, which is what you'd be doing if you
got hold of another version floating around. I can't condone that
whatever the circumstances, and even if I might disagree with
some of VA's actions.
A less murky, and more practical response would be for you to take a
look at RCPEmu: http://b-em.bbcmicro.com/arculator/ for which
you already own a license to use RISC OS ROMs with.
Chris Hughes
"Richard Torrens (news)" <nos...@4qd.org> wrote:
> As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
> having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
>
>
> No: I do not want to go into details in public: it would accomplish
> nothing! Nor do I want to go to law (though I would clearly win).
>
>
> However - I now have the right (which could almost cerainly be justified
> in court) to crack the software myself (except I have returned the CD etc
> to VA). But I am not a programmer and would hardly know where to start
> (though I am informed SoftIce and DA Pro are the tools needed)
On what basis do you think you have the right to steal software! You
may/or may not own a valid *licence* to use the software (which seems
to be in dispute from your comments above). You don't own the
software.
You would also be stealing unless you have their specific legal
permission RISCOS Ltd and probably Castle's legal property in terms of
the ROM images therein.
I would hope no one would actually give you any software to 'crack'
the software. We don't know if you are a legal licence owner of said
software anyway.
Any body helping you would be an accessory after the fact.
> However - I am also informed that there is a ready cracked version of the
> program. Anyone know its whereabouts? (Off list please!)
I really hope no one does.
--
Chris Hughes
Don't forget the Wakefield Show - Saturday 13th May
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
Dave Symes
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
> > having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
Mmnnn! The better solution of course is to put the willies back in the
underpants, testosterone back in the bottle, and try to resolve the
dispute.
Dave S
PS: I'm Mr Grumpy, I fall out with lots of people, but most things can be
resolved...
--
Alan Calder
Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
[Snip]
> Mmnnn! The better solution of course is to put the willies back in the
> underpants,
Willies? Is there something about you that is different from other men?
Does this condition make you Grumpy? :-)
Cheers
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Rob Kendrick
No EULA that any version of RISC OS has been distributed under allows
this. The one that came with RO 3, for example, says:
You may not: ... (iii) incorporate any part of the Software into other
programs developed or used by you.
Further more, the actual Licence For Use says:
You may copy the Software for back-up purposes, to support its use on
*one stand-alone Acorn computer system*
(My emphasis.) So you can't even claim any clever backupnessclausstuff.
Of course, it's legally very vague in the UK as to if they're legally
enforceable clauses, given the context.
Back to the subject at hand, copy prevention systems serve two, and only
two, purposes:
1) To give some kid something crack when he gets home from school
2) Annoy legitimate users
I generally refuse to use any software that requires activation in the way
VA does - what if they cease to exist? How are you meant to install your
paid-for software after that? And no, promising to document the algorithm
used for generating them should they go bankrupt isn't enough.
B.
Dave Symes
Alan Calder <alan_...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4e1e42...@ukgateway.net>,
> Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> [Snip]
> > Mmnnn! The better solution of course is to put the willies back in the
> > underpants,
> Willies? Is there something about you that is different from other men?
> Does this condition make you Grumpy? :-)
> Cheers
> Alan
Oh! excellent joke catch Alan, I like it.
Erm! Not really, I'm always Grumpy, but on the other subject I should be
so lucky, unfortunately I'm not of the Genus Crocodylus. ;-)
Cheers
Dave S
PS: Aside, absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the subject in hand,
(or is that a Freudian slip) An excellent book By Eric Frank Russell.
D.
--
Chris Hughes
Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> In article <c85b3e1e...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
>> > having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
I did not say the above, you have misquoted in your reply.
> Mmnnn! The better solution of course is to put the willies back in the
> underpants, testosterone back in the bottle, and try to resolve the
> dispute.
Interest turn of phrase! But It not me saying the about it was Chris
Terran.
> PS: I'm Mr Grumpy, I fall out with lots of people, but most things can be
> resolved...
I'll be getting grumpy soon.......
Dave Symes
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> I did not say the above, you have misquoted in your reply.
[Snip]
> I'll be getting grumpy soon.......
My apologies Chris for getting my quoting in a muddle, you are right, it
wasn't you but Richard Torrens.
Again my apologies. :-)
Dave S
PS: With regard to getting grumpy, join the club now, better to do it
sooner than later.
Grumpiness is a state of being, a vocation requiring dedication and
perseverance, not a task to be taken lightly.
I have on many occasions tried to cure myself of this
affliction/addiction, the best I have managed is 12 days... before I
discovered my true self again and was reborn. GROK!
GD
--
Paul F. Johnson
> Don't forget the Wakefield Show - Saturday 13th May
> http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
Damn. I'm in Cardiff on that day. Something to with Liverpool being in the
cup final - again :-)
TTFN
Paul
Dave Symes
> TTFN
> Paul
Is that something to do with making Bone China?
GD
--
Chris Hughes
"Paul F. Johnson" <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
When did they move it from the 20th ? We double checked in about
Sept/October last year and were informed it was on the 20th in 2006.
Hence one reason why we picked the 13th. Grrrrrrr.
Just done a google and confirmed it is now on the 13th, is this
becuase Wembley Stadium ain't finished?
Forget Liverpool, come to the show, its more interesting then them.
--
Chris Hughes
Paul
On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 08:28 +0100, Chris Hughes wrote:
> Forget Liverpool, come to the show, its more interesting then them.
Sir, that is treason. I hereby condemn you to a life of waiting for the
ARMTwister from Microdigital. You are not allowed any other piece of
hardware or to look sideways at any other version of RISC OS other than
2.01
TTFN
Paul
Lord Protectorates Division
--
"Logic, my dear Zoe, is merely the ability to be wrong with authority" -
Dr Who
John Cartmell
Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 08:28 +0100, Chris Hughes wrote:
> > Forget Liverpool, come to the show, its more interesting then them.
> Sir, that is treason.
Stop pretending. You live in a rugby league town outside Liverpool and work in
another rugby league town outside Manchester! ;-)
<cats. pigeons. fight>
...
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Paul
> In article <1146216757....@mrwibble.mrwobble>,
> Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> > Sir, that is treason.
>
> Stop pretending. You live in a rugby league town outside Liverpool and work in
> another rugby league town outside Manchester! ;-)
Name : Paul F. Johnson
Born : Broadgreen Hospital, Liverpool
Moved from Liverpool : Aged 18 (ish)
Moved to St Helens : 1995
Started in Salford : 1996
Up to that point : Worked in Liverpool, Sefton and Knowsley
Rugby is a game played by men who enjoy fondling an odd shaped ball!
TTFN
Paul
Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
stuff who knows either.
John Cartmell
<pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 11:02 +0100, John Cartmell wrote:
> > In article <1146216757....@mrwibble.mrwobble>, Paul
> > <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Sir, that is treason.
> >
> > Stop pretending. You live in a rugby league town outside Liverpool and
> > work in another rugby league town outside Manchester! ;-)
> Name : Paul F. Johnson Born : Broadgreen Hospital, Liverpool Moved from
> Liverpool : Aged 18 (ish) Moved to St Helens : 1995 Started in Salford :
> 1996 Up to that point : Worked in Liverpool, Sefton and Knowsley
Incredible. You've worked really hard on that accent ...
> Rugby is a game played by men who enjoy fondling an odd shaped ball!
You've tried saying that in the middle of St Helens? ;-)
> TTFN
> Paul Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
> stuff who knows either.
And there was me thinking you were an exile from the south ...
BTW Have you got your tickets yet?
Paul
On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 11:37 +0100, John Cartmell wrote:
> In article <1146219450.7...@mrwibble.mrwobble>, Paul
> > Name : Paul F. Johnson Born : Broadgreen Hospital, Liverpool Moved from
> > Liverpool : Aged 18 (ish) Moved to St Helens : 1995 Started in Salford :
> > 1996 Up to that point : Worked in Liverpool, Sefton and Knowsley
>
> Incredible. You've worked really hard on that accent ...
Not really. It is the same as it always was. For some reason, folks from
Netherley never really do have a strong accent - it must be because it's
closer to Widnes than Liverpool centres!
> > Rugby is a game played by men who enjoy fondling an odd shaped ball!
>
> You've tried saying that in the middle of St Helens? ;-)
Yes. And depending on the part of St Helens you get some very odd
reactions!
> > Paul Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
> > stuff who knows either.
>
> And there was me thinking you were an exile from the south ...
Nah, that's Man U supporters.
> BTW Have you got your tickets yet?
Well if I didn't, I'd be at Wakefield.
TTFN
Paul
Dave Symes
Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Paul
> Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
> stuff who knows either.
Considering the negative reputation folks from Liverpool have down here in
the South (I won't detail... you are probably a very nice person, and I
wouldn't want to upset you with fact based rumours) should you really be
advertising the place of your origin...
Perhaps taking a leaf out of the Yankees visiting the UK, who now suggest
they are Canadian. ;-) <<<<
Perhaps you could come from Chester, a reasonably civilised place not so
far from L... ;-/
GD
--
Paul
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Paul wrote:
>
> > Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
> > stuff who knows either.
>
I still find it amusing that people quote the same line from a
particularly unfunny series of sketches by someone no-one sees much of
any more....
TTFN
Paul
Paul
> In article <1146219450.7...@mrwibble.mrwobble>,
> Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> > Proud to be a Scouser, proud to support Liverpool and doesn't give a
> > stuff who knows either.
>
> Considering the negative reputation folks from Liverpool have down here in
> the South (I won't detail... you are probably a very nice person, and I
> wouldn't want to upset you with fact based rumours) should you really be
> advertising the place of your origin...
We're unpopular due to a negative stereotype. It's not a problem - as
with all people from Liverpool, we live and let live. If folks can't be
bothered to come and see what we are (rather than what they think we
are), that's their problem.
Those who know me, know I'm a really rather nice chap. Others who don't,
possibly won't hold that view. However, in such a one dimensional
environment as usenet, it is hard to come over as anything more than the
sum of your postings.
We also have a bad reputation as the mighty Liverpool has this unnerving
ability to drop teams out of the cup competitions :-)
> Perhaps taking a leaf out of the Yankees visiting the UK, who now suggest
> they are Canadian. ;-) <<<<
That's their problem. I know many Americans - some of whom can even walk
upright!
> Perhaps you could come from Chester, a reasonably civilised place not so
> far from L... ;-/
No. I'm from Liverpool. I will never deny it, never hide from it, never
run from it. I am proud of what Liverpool is, what it stands for and
it's long long history. Sure, we've had our bad moments, but you name
any place that hasn't.
I actually get annoyed at people who claim to be from somewhere that
they're not. That and Cilla "I've not been to Liverpool for more than 30
minutes in the past 20-odd years yet have a thicker accent than most of
the navvies on Scotty Road" Black.
TTFN
Paul
John Cartmell
Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> Perhaps you could come from Chester, a reasonably civilised place not so
> far from L... ;-/
<big cat. huge pigeons. massive fight!>
Paul
> > Perhaps you could come from Chester, a reasonably civilised place not so
> > far from L... ;-/
>
> <big cat. huge pigeons. massive fight!>
That's like accusing someone from Manchester of supporting United!
Unheard of!!!
TTFN
Paul
John
> > > Perhaps you could come from Chester, a reasonably civilised place not so
> > > far from L... ;-/
> >
> > <big cat. huge pigeons. massive fight!>
> That's like accusing someone from Manchester of supporting United!
> Unheard of!!!
Do we ignore the slight problem that Man U isn't in Manchester (it's in my own
conurbation - Trafford)? ;-) And, of course people in Trafford (or Manchester)
are probably more likely to support City ...
..and some even Blackburn Rovers. ;-)
Paul
> In article <1146229931.7...@mrwibble.mrwobble>,
> Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> > That's like accusing someone from Manchester of supporting United!
> > Unheard of!!!
>
> Do we ignore the slight problem that Man U isn't in Manchester (it's in my own
> conurbation - Trafford)? ;-)
Well, it is in Gtr Manchester. Unlike Haydock race course which is in
Ashton in Makerfield...
Richard Torrens (news)
[Snip]
[licence quotes Snipped]
Agreed: the threat has already stirred up interesting reactions from sone
quarters!
> Back to the subject at hand, copy prevention systems serve two, and only
> two, purposes:
> 1) To give some kid something crack when he gets home from school
> 2) Annoy legitimate users
My opinion too!
Unlicensed VRPC would quite possibly get distributed amongst non RISC-OS
users. If handled correctly this could be very good method of increasing
the RISC OS market!
I am sure Paul Middleton would not agree however!
> I generally refuse to use any software that requires activation in the
> way VA does - what if they cease to exist? How are you meant to install
> your paid-for software after that? And no, promising to document the
> algorithm used for generating them should they go bankrupt isn't enough.
Yes, this has already happened to some RISC OS users.
> B.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. N.B. email address nos...@4qd.org is valid.
All email addresses are copyright. Resale or use on any lists is expressly forbidden.
4QD manufacture speed controllers for battery electric motors.
www sites http://www.4QD.org and http://www.4QD.co.uk
---------- We use a RISC PC 32 bit RISC computer ----------------
Richard Torrens (news)
[Snip]
> I'm sure your rights are valid, and IANAL, but I'm also sure you
> cannot justify software piracy, which is what you'd be doing if you
> got hold of another version floating around. I can't condone that
> whatever the circumstances, and even if I might disagree with
> some of VA's actions.
Agreed. ATM I am looking for options.
By shaking the tree a coule of intersting apples have already fallen out,
but if I do get an offer of a cracked coopy I would probably see a
solicitor before accepting.
> A less murky, and more practical response would be for you to take a
> look at RCPEmu: http://b-em.bbcmicro.com/arculator/ for which
> you already own a license to use RISC OS ROMs with.
Thanks. Will have a look!
Richard Torrens (news)
Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> In article <c85b3e1e...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
> > > having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
> Mmnnn! The better solution of course is to put the willies back in the
> underpants, testosterone back in the bottle, and try to resolve the
> dispute.
> Dave S
> PS: I'm Mr Grumpy, I fall out with lots of people, but most things can be
> resolved...
Agreed.
I have tried. For nearly two months.
On Thursday I phoned Aaron, had a long chat with him. He has a 3 way choice
Unlock the software
Refund the money
Do nothing.
It is clearly a contravention of the Sale of Goods act to debit someone's
card when you have no intention of licensing the software!
Secondhand reports of other peoples disputes with Aaron leads me to
believe he will do nothing.
I could easily win a court action - but it's too much hassle.
However - I suspect there are other aggrieved 'customers' here. If there
is sufficient motivation, I could be persuaded to take it to court.
Peter Naulls
> In article <pan.2006.04.27....@rjek.com>,
> Rob Kendrick <nn...@rjek.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:15:06 +0000, Peter Naulls wrote:
>
> [Snip]
>
> [licence quotes Snipped]
>
> Agreed: the threat has already stirred up interesting reactions from sone
> quarters!
>
>> Back to the subject at hand, copy prevention systems serve two, and only
>> two, purposes:
>
>> 1) To give some kid something crack when he gets home from school
>> 2) Annoy legitimate users
>
> My opinion too!
>
> Unlicensed VRPC would quite possibly get distributed amongst non RISC-OS
> users. If handled correctly this could be very good method of increasing
> the RISC OS market!
I'm unconvinced. This is not the MS market, where there are millions
of users of unlicensed software that can be cut a deal, etc. This is
just a good way to annoy the very few developers that are left. If you
ensure they go away, then RISC OS really will be screwed.
As I said earlier, if you want to promote RISC OS with an emulator,
look at RPCEmu (RiscPC), and of course, ArcEm (Archimedes) - as Rob
has noted, the licensing of the ROMs in these cases is still
questionable, but at least the software itself is free - better yet,
the source is available for any one outside RISC OS to improve.
Theo Markettos
> I could easily win a court action - but it's too much hassle.
Small Claims Court? http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ is supposed to be
straightforward.
Theo
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:nos...@4qd.org> wrote:
> In article <pan.2006.04.27....@rjek.com>,
> Rob Kendrick <nn...@rjek.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:15:06 +0000, Peter Naulls wrote:
>
> [Snip]
>
> [licence quotes Snipped]
>
> Agreed: the threat has already stirred up interesting reactions from sone
> quarters!
>
> > Back to the subject at hand, copy prevention systems serve two, and only
> > two, purposes:
>
> > 1) To give some kid something crack when he gets home from school
> > 2) Annoy legitimate users
>
> My opinion too!
>
> Unlicensed VRPC would quite possibly get distributed amongst non RISC-OS
> users. If handled correctly this could be very good method of increasing
> the RISC OS market!
>
> I am sure Paul Middleton would not agree however!
Well RISCOS Ltd has commercial agreements and they wouldn't let him so as
you suggest, so the point is moot, and despite some people jumping up and
saying 'well get the agreements changed' it won't happen!
> > I generally refuse to use any software that requires activation in the
> > way VA does - what if they cease to exist? How are you meant to install
> > your paid-for software after that? And no, promising to document the
> > algorithm used for generating them should they go bankrupt isn't enough.
>
> Yes, this has already happened to some RISC OS users.
>
> > B.
>
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
Jess
"Richard Torrens (news)" <nos...@4qd.org> wrote:
> In article <pan.2006.04.27....@rjek.com>,
> Rob Kendrick <nn...@rjek.com> wrote:
>> Back to the subject at hand, copy prevention systems serve two, and only
>> two, purposes:
>
>> 1) To give some kid something crack when he gets home from school
>> 2) Annoy legitimate users
>
> My opinion too!
I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
> Unlicensed VRPC would quite possibly get distributed amongst non RISC-OS
> users. If handled correctly this could be very good method of increasing
> the RISC OS market!
I think it would be sensible if VA5000 (plus host networking) were to
be made freely availble for this purpose.
If that were available with a basic uniboot and riscpkg installed, it
would provide an excellent demo of RISC OS. it would also be of
benefit to those who use windows at work and RISC OS at home, and
indirectly those who sell them software.
> I am sure Paul Middleton would not agree however!
Wonder if he'd agree with mine?
--
Jess Iyonix
contact http://jess.itworkshop-nexus.net
Hotmail is my spam trap - don't email
valid - mailto:nos...@itworkshop.uklinux.net
David Holden
Only if you have a valid case. The correspondence has been CC'ed to me and
he doesn't.
--
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>
Dave Symes
David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> On 28-Apr-2006, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > "Richard Torrens (news)" <nos...@4qd.org> wrote:
> > > I could easily win a court action - but it's too much hassle.
> >
> > Small Claims Court? http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ is supposed to be
> > straightforward.
> Only if you have a valid case. The correspondence has been CC'ed to me
> and he doesn't.
Stepping slightly sideways, but still on the subject of VRPC, I have a
question.
At present the VRPC I have is installed on my desktop XP box, I'm thinking
of getting a portable, and would want to uninstall it from the desktop
machine and reinstall it on the portable.
What process do I have to go through to enable me to install it on the
portable... The registration process as it now stands ties me to the
machine it's presently installed on?
When I say I would uninstall it from the Desktop machine, I do mean that
it would be uninstalled as a fact, not a ploy.
Dave S
--
Alan Wrigley
Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> At present the VRPC I have is installed on my desktop XP box, I'm thinking
> of getting a portable, and would want to uninstall it from the desktop
> machine and reinstall it on the portable.
>
> What process do I have to go through to enable me to install it on the
> portable... The registration process as it now stands ties me to the
> machine it's presently installed on?
You just need to ask Aaron for a new activation code and satisfy him
that you are indeed removing it completely from your desktop machine.
I did precisely that myself.
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
druck
> No. I'm from Liverpool. I will never deny it, never hide from it, never
> run from it. I am proud of what Liverpool is, what it stands for and
> it's long long history.
# So Ferry 'cross the Mersey, 'cause this land's the place I love...
# Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart, And you'll never walk alone...
---druck
--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
druck
> As a result of an unresolvable argument with Aaron Timbrell I am left
> having paid for VA and not having it working (no unlock code).
>
> nothing! Nor do I want to go to law (though I would clearly win).
>
> However - I now have the right (which could almost cerainly be justified
> in court) to crack the software myself
You did have the right under the old Copyright Design and Patent Act, if the
supplier no longer supports running legitimately purchased software on your
system. However this act has been superceeded by the UK legislation related
to the EU Copyright directive, and I'd have to get advice on whether a
similar exception still exists in law.
> (except I have returned the CD etc to VA). But I am not a programmer and
> would hardly know where to start (though I am informed SoftIce and DA Pro
> are the tools needed)
>
> However - I am also informed that there is a ready cracked version of the
> program. Anyone know its whereabouts? (Off list please!)
Unfortunately the exception specified that such information cannot be made
available by or to 3rd parties. You have to work that out on your own.
Dave Symes
Chris Hughes
> In article <4bf3aeF...@individual.net>,
> David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 28-Apr-2006, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> > "Richard Torrens (news)" <nos...@4qd.org> wrote:
>> > > I could easily win a court action - but it's too much hassle.
>> >
>> > Small Claims Court? http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ is supposed to be
>> > straightforward.
>
>> Only if you have a valid case. The correspondence has been CC'ed to me
>> and he doesn't.
>
> Stepping slightly sideways, but still on the subject of VRPC, I have a
> question.
>
> At present the VRPC I have is installed on my desktop XP box, I'm thinking
> of getting a portable, and would want to uninstall it from the desktop
> machine and reinstall it on the portable.
>
> What process do I have to go through to enable me to install it on the
> portable... The registration process as it now stands ties me to the
> machine it's presently installed on?
When its installed on the new hardware you will get a new code to give
to Aaron he gives you the new unlock code. You do have to tell he what
you are doing transferring it from one device to another and IIRC
why.
Ensure you are registered with them (Virtual Acorn) before you do the
above and double check it with Aaron first.
>
> When I say I would uninstall it from the Desktop machine, I do mean that
> it would be uninstalled as a fact, not a ploy.
>
> Dave S
>
--
Chris Hughes
Don't forget the Wakefield Show - Saturday 13th May
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
Dave Symes
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> When its installed on the new hardware you will get a new code to give
> to Aaron he gives you the new unlock code. You do have to tell he what
> you are doing transferring it from one device to another and IIRC
> why.
> Ensure you are registered with them (Virtual Acorn) before you do the
> above and double check it with Aaron first.
Thanks for that bit of info Chris.
Obviously I'd talk to Aaron first, when and more importantly, if I decide
to go the portable route... 'Tiz still under consideration ATM.
Cheers
Dave S
--
David Holden
On 28-Apr-2006, Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > What process do I have to go through to enable me to install it on the
> > portable... The registration process as it now stands ties me to the
> > machine it's presently installed on?
>
> When its installed on the new hardware you will get a new code to give
> to Aaron he gives you the new unlock code. You do have to tell he what
> you are doing transferring it from one device to another and IIRC
> why.
I can confirm (since I doubt if Aaron will want to get involved in this
thread) that this is all that is normally required.
The important thing is that you will need to state (for obvious legal
reasons) that you have uninstalled it from your previous machine and will
not re-install it etc.
Sandy Morton
<d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> At present the VRPC I have is installed on my desktop XP box, I'm
> thinking of getting a portable, and would want to uninstall it from
> the desktop machine and reinstall it on the portable.
> What process do I have to go through to enable me to install it on
> the portable... The registration process as it now stands ties me
> to the machine it's presently installed on?
> When I say I would uninstall it from the Desktop machine, I do mean
> that it would be uninstalled as a fact, not a ploy.
I "uninstalled" VA from the pc yesterday, phoned VA for a
registration code to put it on the laptop and got it straight away.
(for uninstalled read binned)
--
T h e - e x t e n d e r ! ! ! !
Ray Dawson
>
> > When its installed on the new hardware you will get a new code to give
> > to Aaron he gives you the new unlock code. You do have to tell he what
> > you are doing transferring it from one device to another and IIRC
> > why.
>
> I can confirm (since I doubt if Aaron will want to get involved in this
> thread) that this is all that is normally required.
>
> The important thing is that you will need to state (for obvious legal
> reasons) that you have uninstalled it from your previous machine and
> will not re-install it etc.
>
What happens if you bought VRPC preinstalled on a PC? Can you still
uninstall it and get access to the original CD and unlock codes to install
it on another machine?
Ray D
David Holden
On 29-Apr-2006, Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> What happens if you bought VRPC preinstalled on a PC? Can you still
> uninstall it and get access to the original CD and unlock codes to install
> it on another machine?
Yes, as long as it's a copy of VRPC supplied by VA originally which would
normally mean that it was installed on a machine purchased from R-Comp, Adv6
or CJE.
There *could* be problems with MicroDigital laptops because with these the
OS may have been licensed direct from RISCOS Ltd and not through VA.
Philip Pemberton
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
Same here. I absolutely despise Product Activation. Had to rebuild someone's
WinXP box after a motherboard failure. M$ wanted him to buy a new licence,
because by their definition replacing the motherboard was akin to replacing
the machine. Good fun. Not. (and people keep asking my why I haven't
'upgraded' my PCs from 2k to XP yet.. now you know why).
I don't mind the sort of protection used by Artworks2 (among others), where
you enter an unlock code that's tied to your name. No "call MW and plead for
today's activation code" nonsense, just one code. I guess the theory behind
it is that any pirate copies would be easy to trace back to their original
owner, based on either the serial number or user name (or both). Good way to
keep the honest folk honest I guess...
--
Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
phi...@despammed.com (valid!)| Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G
No software patents! <http://www.eff.org/> / <http://www.ffii.org/>
Chris Joseph
>I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
Ditto; I'd love to have the extra space on my desk created by removing
a machine (and I'd also start using RISC OS for more things again,
once I could use it with speech-recognition software - which would
lead to my buying a number of upgrades for other RISC OS applications).
Chris.
Jason Tribbeck
I've had to do this twice - the first time, I installed with a PCMCIA
network card, and when I used the laptop without wireless, the lock code
was different.
The second time was when my laptop motherboard died, and Dell replaced
it. That was a bit annoying, because the hard drive was kept completely
intact (didn't even need to install Windows), but it had to be treated
as being uninstalled and then reinstalled on the "new" machine....=
But then I'd like to think that I'm trustworthy enough :)
--
Jason Tribbeck
newsm...@tribbeck.com - 20K download limit - anything larger won't
be received.
Simon Challands
Within reason. When I moved to a new laptop I couldn't uninstall it from
the old one, because the machine had completely died.
--
Simon Challands
Simon Challands
Philip Pemberton <phi...@despammed.com> wrote:
> In message <e0adbe1...@itworkshop.invalid>
> Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
>
> Same here. I absolutely despise Product Activation. Had to rebuild someone's
> WinXP box after a motherboard failure. M$ wanted him to buy a new licence,
> because by their definition replacing the motherboard was akin to replacing
> the machine.
That strikes me as completely unreasonable (and typical blatant MS
profiteering). Wonder what the legal position is? Not that getting any
legal headway against them stands much chance of success.
--
Simon Challands
Ray Dawson
I think that's when I've seen complaints in these newsgroups about
difficulty getting an unlock code.
But why, in those circumstances can't RISCOS Ltd supply the unlock code?
It's a bit like the situation where Rcomp won't provide technical support
for their software if you buy it from CJE or another supplier.
Ray D
Ray Dawson
It isn't my experience of M$ and XP Pro. I have twice had to reactivate my
copy and the support line was very helpful. The first time I changed
motherboard and processor, but kept the original hard drive. The second
time I put a larger drive in and needed to reinstall. On both occasions M$
gave me codes to reactivate over the 'phone.
Cheers,
Ray D
Philip Pemberton
Simon Challands <simon_...@helvellyn.plus.com> wrote:
> That strikes me as completely unreasonable (and typical blatant MS
> profiteering). Wonder what the legal position is? Not that getting any
> legal headway against them stands much chance of success.
IIRC he called them a few days later and they gave him an activation code..
Maybe he's better at arguing than I am, or perhaps my Leeds accent makes me
sound a little untrustworthy :)
Paul F. Johnson
> On 28 Apr 2006 Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
>> No. I'm from Liverpool. I will never deny it, never hide from it, never
>> run from it. I am proud of what Liverpool is, what it stands for and
>> it's long long history.
>
> # So Ferry 'cross the Mersey, 'cause this land's the place I love...
>
> # Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart, And you'll never walk
> # alone...
We're off, we're off, we're off in a motor car...
;-p
Chris Hughes
Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 29-Apr-2006, Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > What happens if you bought VRPC preinstalled on a PC? Can you still
>> > uninstall it and get access to the original CD and unlock codes to
>> > install it on another machine?
>>
>> Yes, as long as it's a copy of VRPC supplied by VA originally which
>> would normally mean that it was installed on a machine purchased from
>> R-Comp, Adv6 or CJE.
>>
>> There *could* be problems with MicroDigital laptops because with these
>> the OS may have been licensed direct from RISCOS Ltd and not through VA.
>>
> I think that's when I've seen complaints in these newsgroups about
> difficulty getting an unlock code.
>
> But why, in those circumstances can't RISCOS Ltd supply the unlock code?
Becuase they will not have it! It was MicroDigital who generated the
code, they were I believe supposed;y going to let VA know the details
but this did not seem to happen usually.
>
> It's a bit like the situation where Rcomp won't provide technical support
> for their software if you buy it from CJE or another supplier.
--
charles
> >
> > On 29-Apr-2006, Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > What happens if you bought VRPC preinstalled on a PC? Can you still
> > > uninstall it and get access to the original CD and unlock codes to
> > > install it on another machine?
> >
> > Yes, as long as it's a copy of VRPC supplied by VA originally which
> > would normally mean that it was installed on a machine purchased from
> > R-Comp, Adv6 or CJE.
> >
> > There *could* be problems with MicroDigital laptops because with these
> > the OS may have been licensed direct from RISCOS Ltd and not through VA.
> >
> I think that's when I've seen complaints in these newsgroups about
> difficulty getting an unlock code.
> But why, in those circumstances can't RISCOS Ltd supply the unlock code?
Probably because it has nothing to do with them. AFAIK, the algorithm is
something that VA have arranged.
--
From KT24 - in drought-ridden Surrey
Using a RISC OS5 computer
druck
I did suggest a copy of VRPC locked to a USB pen drive that you could take
from machine to machine (very useful for me using a variety of work
machines). However this was poopoo'd due to certain OS licencing
constraints.
Jess
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 29 Apr 2006 Chris Joseph <chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
>>
>> Ditto; I'd love to have the extra space on my desk created by removing
>> a machine (and I'd also start using RISC OS for more things again,
>> once I could use it with speech-recognition software - which would
>> lead to my buying a number of upgrades for other RISC OS applications).
>
> I did suggest a copy of VRPC locked to a USB pen drive that you could take
> from machine to machine (very useful for me using a variety of work
> machines). However this was poopoo'd due to certain OS licencing
> constraints.
Perhaps a piece of hardware with VA on ROM that you could fit RO ROMs
in, and an SD card?
--
Jess Iyonix
contact http://jess.itworkshop-nexus.net
Hotmail is my spam trap - don't email
valid - mailto:nos...@jess.itworkshop-nexus.net
gr...@nospam.demon.co.uk
ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk says...
> In message <gemini.iyhjdr0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 29-Apr-2006, Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> > What happens if you bought VRPC preinstalled on a PC? Can you still
> >> > uninstall it and get access to the original CD and unlock codes to
> >> > install it on another machine?
> >>
> >> Yes, as long as it's a copy of VRPC supplied by VA originally which
> >> would normally mean that it was installed on a machine purchased from
> >> R-Comp, Adv6 or CJE.
> >>
> >> There *could* be problems with MicroDigital laptops because with these
> >> the OS may have been licensed direct from RISCOS Ltd and not through VA.
> >>
> > I think that's when I've seen complaints in these newsgroups about
> > difficulty getting an unlock code.
> >
> > But why, in those circumstances can't RISCOS Ltd supply the unlock code?
>
> Becuase they will not have it! It was MicroDigital who generated the
> code, they were I believe supposed;y going to let VA know the details
> but this did not seem to happen usually.
On that assumption, I think it's perfectly legal for those legitimate
purchasers to use a 'cracked' copy or a code generator.
Policies like this only promote piracy. Why should they have to pay
twice or grovel?
--
Greg Harris (Norwich)
Steven Pampling
<gr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Becuase they will not have it! It was MicroDigital who generated the
> > code, they were I believe supposed;y going to let VA know the details
> > but this did not seem to happen usually.
> On that assumption, I think it's perfectly legal for those legitimate
> purchasers to use a 'cracked' copy or a code generator.
> Policies like this only promote piracy. Why should they have to pay
> twice or grovel?
Interesting question. Like did Microdigital forget to send the cash to VA
(and ROL) as well as the details of the user. Thus the question arises - is
the software actually legal?
Yes I know they paid for it, but paying for a pirate CD in a market (or
shop) doesn't make it legal.
Steven Pampling
> ;-p
<end of street>
"Feeling a bit dry back here driver"
(Circa 1974, T O'C)
Steven Pampling
> > Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
> >
> > Ditto; I'd love to have the extra space on my desk created by removing
> > a machine (and I'd also start using RISC OS for more things again,
> > once I could use it with speech-recognition software - which would
> > lead to my buying a number of upgrades for other RISC OS applications).
> I did suggest a copy of VRPC locked to a USB pen drive that you could
> take from machine to machine (very useful for me using a variety of work
> machines). However this was poopoo'd due to certain OS licencing
> constraints.
Surely the licence restricts things to *one machine* at a time? [1]
Phoning up and asking for an unlock code to install on a different machine
after verbally assuring the authors that it has been removed from the
previous machine is more fraught with problems[2] than a single instance
locked to a USB drive and a pre-installed copy on a USB drive is *much*
easier to sell/ship.
After all a 1GB drive comes in at less than 20 quid these days. Provided
the software can be run from the USB without needing registry changes on
the host machine then the software is saleable to anyone who uses a
compatible machine at home or work. (Assuming the work PC hasn't had the
USB disabled, which given the use of USB keyboards and no PS2 ports is
unlikely)
[1] Most likely candidate for commenting here is David Holden, who usually
cuffs me round the ear when I'm wrong. What of it aged sage? :-)
[2] You could be lying and end up with two machines active.
David Holden
On 30-Apr-2006, Steven Pampling <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> Surely the licence restricts things to *one machine* at a time? [1]
>
Exactly. And it's not just VA and the OS which is restricted. There's a lot
of copyright software included (some of it owned by me) which has the same
licence.
> Phoning up and asking for an unlock code to install on a different machine
> after verbally assuring the authors that it has been removed from the
> previous machine is more fraught with problems[2] than a single instance
> locked to a USB drive and a pre-installed copy on a USB drive is *much*
> easier to sell/ship.
>
> After all a 1GB drive comes in at less than 20 quid these days. Provided
> the software can be run from the USB without needing registry changes on
> the host machine then the software is saleable to anyone who uses a
> compatible machine at home or work. (Assuming the work PC hasn't had the
> USB disabled, which given the use of USB keyboards and no PS2 ports is
> unlikely)
I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only" twenty
quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of RPC-SE.
Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack" the
copy protection from just cloning the pen drive? This could potentially be
even more "fraught with problems" than the current system as there'd be no
obvious way of a potential purchaser of a copy sold as secondhand from
knowing if it's legit or not.
>
> [1] Most likely candidate for commenting here is David Holden, who usually
> cuffs me round the ear when I'm wrong. What of it aged sage? :-)
Consider yourself lightly cuffed :-)
>
> [2] You could be lying and end up with two machines active.
Yes. Which is why Aaron will sometimes ask for such an assurance in writing.
This could only be classed as "unreasonable" if the customer is in some way
being "economical with the truth" and is trying to avoid a direct written
lie. :-)
Dave Symes
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
[Snippy]
> [2] You could be lying and end up with two machines active.
Indeedy anyone could be lying, and many probably would be.
Mnn! But on the other hand, some of us mean what we say... If I say I will
uninstall something, you can bet your boots I will uninstall.
Personal rectitude, some have it and many don't.
Dave S
--
David Holden
On 30-Apr-2006, Dave Symes <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> In article <4e1f944df6st...@dsl.pipex.com>,
> Steven Pampling <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> [Snippy]
>
> > [2] You could be lying and end up with two machines active.
>
> Indeedy anyone could be lying, and many probably would be.
>
> Mnn! But on the other hand, some of us mean what we say...
Something that is appreciated by Aaron, which is why with some people he'll
just accept their assurance on the phone, with some he'll ask for an email,
but where he smells a large rat or with people who've demonstrated their
untrustworthiness he might ask for more.
Adam
>
> Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack" the
> copy protection from just cloning the pen drive?
Isn't it reasonable to assume that it is *significantly* more difficult to
crack/clone a hardware solution than a software one?
> This could potentially be even more "fraught with problems" than the
> current system as there'd be no obvious way of a potential purchaser of a
> copy sold as secondhand from knowing if it's legit or not.
How is that different to now?
Adam
--
Adam Richardson Carpe Diem
http://www.snowstone.org.uk/riscos/
druck
[Virtual RPC USB Pen drive]
> I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only"
> twenty quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of RPC-SE.
Then charge 40 quid more for it, for the convience of having a RISC OS
emulator complete with a large number of your applications and data, you can
use where ever you are - on the office desktop, a laptop, etc - but still
only copy copy exists and can be used on one machine a time, meeting the
licence requirements.
> Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack" the
> copy protection from just cloning the pen drive?
Exactly the same level of difficulty as cracking the existing obvious machine
based unique identifier VRPC uses.
> This could potentially be even more "fraught with problems" than the
> current system as there'd be no obvious way of a potential purchaser of a
> copy sold as secondhand from knowing if it's legit or not.
No, its actually more secure, as the copy of VRPC is locked to the USB pen
before sale, rather than handing out an unlock code. This means the
documentation can be supplied with the pen unique ID specified, so a user can
check for legitimacy.
We sell products costing between 300 and 1200 pounds on USB pens, and are
pretty confident they are just as secure as installing and registering the CD
based copy.
> Yes. Which is why Aaron will sometimes ask for such an assurance in
> writing. This could only be classed as "unreasonable" if the customer is in
> some way being "economical with the truth" and is trying to avoid a direct
> written lie. :-)
If someone wants to run VRPC on more than on PC, its far more likely they
will pay a premium for a USB portable version, than either buy two full
licences, or attempt to pull a fast one by re-registering on another
machine or buypassing the copy protection completely. Suppliers benefit far
more from reflecting customer needs than imposing restrictive licences which
are often the trigger for piracy which would otherwise not occur.
David Holden
On 30-Apr-2006, druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2006 David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [Virtual RPC USB Pen drive]
>
> > I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only"
> > twenty quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of
> > RPC-SE.
>
> Then charge 40 quid more for it, for the convience of having a RISC OS
> emulator complete with a large number of your applications and data, you
> can use where ever you are - on the office desktop, a laptop, etc - but
> still only copy copy exists and can be used on one machine a time,
> meeting the licence requirements.
>
> > Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack"
> > the copy protection from just cloning the pen drive?
>
> Exactly the same level of difficulty as cracking the existing obvious
> machine based unique identifier VRPC uses.
Exactly, so there's no improvement in security for the software, you just
want people who only want to use it on 1 machine to pay 40 quid more. Great
idea.
>
> > This could potentially be even more "fraught with problems" than the
> > current system as there'd be no obvious way of a potential purchaser of
> > a copy sold as secondhand from knowing if it's legit or not.
>
> No, its actually more secure, as the copy of VRPC is locked to the USB pen
> before sale, rather than handing out an unlock code. This means the
> documentation can be supplied with the pen unique ID specified, so a user
> can check for legitimacy.
Wasn't it you that said just a couple of paragraphs ago that cloning a pen
would be just as easy as cracking the current system?
You seem to have completely missed the important safeguard (for VA and ROL)
of the current system. For someone to use it *legally* they must contact VA
for an unlock code and give their serial number and personal details to
register it *before* they can use it. Any other system that did not require
them to contact VA might be more convenient for the user but would remove
this important step and inevitably (as you've already said) add
significantly to the cost.
druck
> On 30-Apr-2006, druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> > On 30 Apr 2006 David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > [Virtual RPC USB Pen drive]
> >
> > > I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only"
> > > twenty quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of
> > > RPC-SE.
> >
> > Then charge 40 quid more for it, for the convience of having a RISC OS
> > emulator complete with a large number of your applications and data, you
> > can use where ever you are - on the office desktop, a laptop, etc - but
> > still only copy copy exists and can be used on one machine a time,
> > meeting the licence requirements.
> >
> > > Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack"
> > > the copy protection from just cloning the pen drive?
> >
> > Exactly the same level of difficulty as cracking the existing obvious
> > machine based unique identifier VRPC uses.
>
> Exactly, so there's no improvement in security for the software, you just
> want people who only want to use it on 1 machine to pay 40 quid more. Great
> idea.
Are you having a slow day or something? The USB pen version is an additional
product for people who want portability, no one is saying that should replace
the existing single machine version supplied on CD.
>>> This could potentially be even more "fraught with problems" than the
>>> current system as there'd be no obvious way of a potential purchaser of a
>>> copy sold as secondhand from knowing if it's legit or not.
>>
>> No, its actually more secure, as the copy of VRPC is locked to the USB pen
>> before sale, rather than handing out an unlock code. This means the
>> documentation can be supplied with the pen unique ID specified, so a user
>> can check for legitimacy.
>
> Wasn't it you that said just a couple of paragraphs ago that cloning a pen
> would be just as easy as cracking the current system?
For cracking its the same, but it eliminated any possibility of requesting an
unlock code for a new machine, and continuing to use it on the old machine.
> You seem to have completely missed the important safeguard (for VA and ROL)
> of the current system. For someone to use it *legally* they must contact VA
> for an unlock code and give their serial number and personal details to
> register it *before* they can use it. Any other system that did not require
> them to contact VA might be more convenient for the user but would remove
> this important step and inevitably (as you've already said) add
> significantly to the cost.
Dave, you need to think about this one when you are having a better day.
David Holden
On 30-Apr-2006, druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2006 David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 30-Apr-2006, druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 30 Apr 2006 David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > [Virtual RPC USB Pen drive]
> > >
> Are you having a slow day or something? The USB pen version is an
> additional product for people who want portability, no one is saying
> that should replace the existing single machine version supplied on CD.
Then you should have said so, because you certainly didn't. Please think
before you start being offensive, you know you'll lose that one.
>
[snip]
> >
> > Wasn't it you that said just a couple of paragraphs ago that cloning a
> > pen would be just as easy as cracking the current system?
>
> For cracking its the same, but it eliminated any possibility of requesting
> an unlock code for a new machine, and continuing to use it on the old
> machine.
Read the next paragraph, which the above reply shows you've completely
ignored.
>
> > You seem to have completely missed the important safeguard (for VA and
> > ROL) of the current system. For someone to use it *legally* they must
> > contact VA for an unlock code and give their serial number and personal
> > details to register it *before* they can use it. Any other system that
> > did not require them to contact VA might be more convenient for the user
> > but would remove this important step and inevitably (as you've already
> > said) add significantly to the cost.
>
> Dave, you need to think about this one when you are having a better day.
It's been thought about and discussed many times and at length by people who
are at least as knowledgeable about the subject as you and have a
considerably more understanding of the licencing and commercial issues
involved. Do you really imagine that if it was a simple, desirable and
commercially advantageous as you suggest the people involved are so silly as
not to have done it?
Jess
David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> It's been thought about and discussed many times and at length by people who
> are at least as knowledgeable about the subject as you and have a
> considerably more understanding of the licencing and commercial issues
> involved. Do you really imagine that if it was a simple, desirable and
> commercially advantageous as you suggest the people involved are so silly as
> not to have done it?
The only explanation I can come up with is that ROL (or their lawyers)
regard this scheme as within the terms of their license or an
agreement with Pace.
Castle presumably don't really want VA at all and won't relax the
arrangement.
ROL and VA have to enforce this to be certain they don't risk their
license.
It still sucks big time, though.
I avoid protected software both on principal - I don't rip off
software so why should I be treated as if I can't be trusted? - and
for the inconvenience.
I would certainly have upgraded my VA5000 to VRPC otherwise. (I'm not
about to lock software that *I* purchase for my ease of use to a work
PC that will be changed from time to time anyway)
Simon Challands
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2006 David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [Virtual RPC USB Pen drive]
>
> > I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only"
> > twenty quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of RPC-SE.
>
> Then charge 40 quid more for it, for the convience of having a RISC OS
> emulator complete with a large number of your applications and data, you can
> use where ever you are - on the office desktop, a laptop, etc - but still
> only copy copy exists and can be used on one machine a time, meeting the
> licence requirements.
Having to plug things in to your computer to run a single piece of
software is a pretty annoying solution, and seems rather reminiscent of
dongles to me.
--
Simon Challands
Simon Challands
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I avoid protected software both on principal - I don't rip off
> software so why should I be treated as if I can't be trusted? - and
> for the inconvenience.
I don't want to sneak into another country and live a live of untraced
crime, so why should I have to use a passport to travel there? The fact
that there are plenty of cheats, liers, thieves, and other assorted idiots
generally dragging the world down means that unfortunately we have to
put up with such things at times (not that that stops some governments
from going too far, but that's a completely separate issue to what's
being discussed).
--
Simon Challands
Stuart
Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
> Rugby is a game played by men
(full stop)
--
Stuart Winsor
From is valid but subject to change without notice if it gets spammed.
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
Rob Kendrick
That's because that's precisely what it is. Not such a pain these days,
as many machines have USB ports on the front, where they're accessible,
for the people who want to use it on several machines, and if you want to
only use it on a single machine, they've got loads of ports on the back.
B.
druck
To repeat, I am not suggesting this as a replacement to the existing method,
but as seperate version targeted at people that want portability.
Michael Chappell
Rob Kendrick <nn...@rjek.com> wrote:
> > Having to plug things in to your computer to run a single piece of
> > software is a pretty annoying solution, and seems rather reminiscent of
> > dongles to me.
> That's because that's precisely what it is. Not such a pain these days,
> as many machines have USB ports on the front, where they're accessible,
Depends where the base unit is. Mine is right under my desk and believe me,
plugging anything in the USB port is a pain.
Michael
Dave Higton
Michael Chappell <chap...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
I have the same problem with the Risc PC, so I bought a USB extension
cable which remains plugged in, with the other end trailing by the
keyboard, ready for any device to be plugged in.
Dave
Adam
[snip apparently-not-directly-related text]
> You seem to have completely missed the important safeguard (for VA and
> ROL) of the current system. For someone to use it *legally* they must
> contact VA for an unlock code and give their serial number and personal
> details to register it *before* they can use it.
Right, so you've got the details of legal copies. What's that safeguarding
against?
> Any other system that did not require them to contact VA might be more
> convenient for the user but would remove this important step
Sorry, you've lost me, why is this step important? Who's it important for?
Adam
[snip details of VRPC copy protection]
> It's been thought about and discussed many times and at length by people
> who are at least as knowledgeable about the subject as you and have a
> considerably more understanding of the licencing and commercial issues
> involved. Do you really imagine that if it was a simple, desirable and
> commercially advantageous as you suggest the people involved are so silly
> as not to have done it?
To be fair, there are (sadly) many things in the world which are done
"stupidly" for no apparent good reason. I'm sure most people can think of
examples in their own fields. To pick one from the air, how about why Lotus
Notes strips the trailing " " from a sig separator...
Michael Chappell
fornew...@ntlworld.com
Michael Chappell <chap...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
[snip]
>> >
>> > Depends where the base unit is. Mine is right under my desk and believe
>> > me, plugging anything in the USB port is a pain.
>
>> I have the same problem with the Risc PC, so I bought a USB extension
>> cable which remains plugged in, with the other end trailing by the
>> keyboard, ready for any device to be plugged in.
>
>> Dave
>
> That's not a bad idea, actually...
>
Have you not heard of usb hubs then (gives multiple sockets next to
the keyboard)
John
--
John Sandford West Herts UK
Hemel Hempstead RISC OS User Group email info @ hhrug.org
Michael Chappell
<fornew...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> In message <4e201c9b0...@marinac.f2s.com> Michael Chappell
> <chap...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> >
> >> > Depends where the base unit is. Mine is right under my desk and
> >> > believe me, plugging anything in the USB port is a pain.
> >
> >> I have the same problem with the Risc PC, so I bought a USB extension
> >> cable which remains plugged in, with the other end trailing by the
> >> keyboard, ready for any device to be plugged in.
> >
> >> Dave
> >
> > That's not a bad idea, actually...
> >
> Have you not heard of usb hubs then (gives multiple sockets next to the
> keyboard)
> John
I have but don't really need a hub as I have the required number of USB
sockets for what I need and most of the things plugged into them are in
permanently (USB HD etc) but it's things like Ipods and camera cables that
I plug in just now and again that I have to crawl under the desk for.
Michael
Stuart
Michael Chappell <chap...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > I have the same problem with the Risc PC, so I bought a USB extension
> > cable which remains plugged in, with the other end trailing by the
> > keyboard, ready for any device to be plugged in.
> > Dave
> That's not a bad idea, actually...
I was going to suggest a hub the you gain by having additional sockets too
but "Hey-ho"
Paul F. Johnson
> In article <1146219450.7...@mrwibble.mrwobble>,
> Paul <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote:
>> Rugby is a game played by men
>
> (full stop)
>
No, there is a bit after it..
;-p
TTFN
Paul
Steven Pampling
<black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> I think that if you knew the cost breakdown you'd realise that "only"
> twenty quid would just about eliminate Aaron's profit on a copy of
> RPC-SE.
I gave the 1GB USB unit price since that happens to be the size I bought
Friday (which works perfectly on the Iyonix) but I'm sure VA doesn't
require that amount of space and 9 quid including VAT for 128MB doesn't
seem likely to break the bank.
> Anyway, what's to stop the sort of s**mbags who would want to "crack"
> the copy protection from just cloning the pen drive? This could
> potentially be even more "fraught with problems" than the current system
> as there'd be no obvious way of a potential purchaser of a copy sold as
> secondhand from knowing if it's legit or not.
USB drives have an ID in the same fashion that a hard disc has an ID - lock
the software to that.
Mind you, having just written the above I've read comments from others (Mr
Ruck included) that point out that the USB pen solution is as secure if not
more so.
BTW. If the vendor id (accessible via WMI) is also used as part of the lock
down the pirate has to either crack that bit as well or buy the same make
and model of USB key that the original was on. Add in few other descriptive
items of the key/pen and it steadily becomes more of a pain to break.
Steven Pampling
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The only explanation I can come up with is that ROL (or their lawyers)
> regard this scheme as within the terms of their license or an
> agreement with Pace.
> Castle presumably don't really want VA at all and won't relax the
> arrangement.
> ROL and VA have to enforce this to be certain they don't risk their
> license.
I don't think Castle need mentioning. The VA licence is either valid as is
(and would be so on a portable medium like USB) or it is not.
druck
> USB drives have an ID in the same fashion that a hard disc has an ID - lock
> the software to that.
No every model of USB pen does, and not all of them promise to be unique, so
you can't just bulk buy this weeks cheapest and nastiest. But our company has
secured a reliable supplie of suitable devices, at very reasonable cost. I
can obtain details if any RISC OS company wants pursue presue this.
Jess
Steven Pampling wrote:
> In article <34facb1...@itworkshop.invalid>,
> Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The only explanation I can come up with is that ROL (or their lawyers)
> > regard this scheme as within the terms of their license or an
> > agreement with Pace.
>
> > Castle presumably don't really want VA at all and won't relax the
> > arrangement.
>
> > ROL and VA have to enforce this to be certain they don't risk their
> > license.
>
> I don't think Castle need mentioning. The VA licence is either valid as is
I'm assuming it is.
> (and would be so on a portable medium like USB) or it is not.
That doesn't follow. The original license was portrayed as being purely
to be supplied as ROMs or with new systems. Either the original
description covered VRPC (as is now) or Pace permitted it as an
extension.
It could be that being tied to a specific machine was regarded as
equivalent to ROMs being installed. In that case being tied to a memory
stick would not be suitable.
If Castle were keen on the idea they could relax the rules.
If the license disallows being tied to a memory stick, then a version
that uses physical ROMs on a carrier (USB or PCI) should be OK - you'd
buy the ROMs separately(And could use older versions of RO)
--
Jess
Brian Carroll
<8110cf1e4e...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>, Alan
Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <4e1ecc...@ukgateway.net> Dave Symes
> <d...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > At present the VRPC I have is installed on my desktop XP
> > box, I'm thinking of getting a portable, and would want to
> > uninstall it from the desktop machine and reinstall it on
> > the portable.
> >
> > What process do I have to go through to enable me to install
> > it on the portable... The registration process as it now
> > stands ties me to the machine it's presently installed on?
> You just need to ask Aaron for a new activation code and
> satisfy him that you are indeed removing it completely from
> your desktop machine. I did precisely that myself.
I did the same; with no problem getting a new code from Aaron.
However, be warned that if you have a wireless net connection in
your laptop, as I do, you may need two codes: one for when it is
active and another when it is not. You might as well ask for
both, as you will need to re-activate if/when you enable/disable
the wireless connection.
Brian.
--
______________________________________________________________
Brian Carroll, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK bric at f2s dot com
______________________________________________________________
Steven Pampling
<ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 1 May 2006 Steven Pampling <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > USB drives have an ID in the same fashion that a hard disc has an ID -
> > lock the software to that.
> No every model of USB pen does, and not all of them promise to be
> unique, so you can't just bulk buy this weeks cheapest and nastiest.
But surely if the device has no ID then the lock to a specific ID doesn't
work and neither does the software.
> But
> our company has secured a reliable supplie of suitable devices, at very
> reasonable cost. I can obtain details if any RISC OS company wants
> pursue presue this.
I'm sure someone with sense will be in touch.
Steven Pampling
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > (and would be so on a portable medium like USB) or it is not.
> That doesn't follow. The original license was portrayed as being purely
> to be supplied as ROMs or with new systems. Either the original
> description covered VRPC (as is now) or Pace permitted it as an
> extension.
Like I said either the licence is valid for VA or it is not. The rest is
minor discussions about the precise hardware. VA is marketed on the premise
that the hardware does not have to include an ARM processor, but for the
sake of the authors finances it needs to lock to something and a hardware
item seems to be the choice. Now select a bit of hardware.
> It could be that being tied to a specific machine was regarded as
> equivalent to ROMs being installed. In that case being tied to a memory
> stick would not be suitable.
> If Castle were keen on the idea they could relax the rules.
Sorry, not going there.
> If the license disallows being tied to a memory stick
Tied to hardware you see - smaller, but hardware.
Dave Symes
Brian Carroll <bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> I did the same; with no problem getting a new code from Aaron.
> However, be warned that if you have a wireless net connection in
> your laptop, as I do, you may need two codes: one for when it is
> active and another when it is not. You might as well ask for
> both, as you will need to re-activate if/when you enable/disable
> the wireless connection.
> Brian.
Yea! damnably weird, as part of a cleanup jobby I was doing a while back I
accidentally switched off the PCs netword card, and VRPC wouldn't work,
kept asking for re-activation.
That said, Aaron sussed what the problem was, and once the card was back
in action VRPC worked again.
Is this gonna cause problems I wonder, if I add/overhaul the machine,
maybe put in a new processor or even a new mother board?
Dave S
--
Dave Symes
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> Tied to hardware you see - smaller, but hardware.
This raises an interesting question, and it's just a question out of
interest, before the 18 hands folk come out of the woodwork.
Is it legit for a software producer to interfere with a machine at a low
level?
(See my reply to Brian)
What if, for whatever reasons, (It's broken, I don't want this machine
networked anymore etc) I want/have to switch off my PCs Network card, now
suddenly I have no VRPC.
Dave S
--
Ray Dawson
>
> If the license disallows being tied to a memory stick, then a version
> that uses physical ROMs on a carrier (USB or PCI) should be OK - you'd
> buy the ROMs separately(And could use older versions of RO)
>
The licence doesn't seem to preclude the use of flash ROM - the original
RISC OS 4 version was supplied on it - or RAM as Select is loaded into it.
So, why not flash cards?
Cheers,
Ray D
Richard Torrens (news)
Philip Pemberton <phi...@despammed.com> wrote:
> In message <e0adbe1...@itworkshop.invalid>
> Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I almost certainly would have bought VRPC were it unprotected.
> Same here. I absolutely despise Product Activation.
Therein lies my problem!
when I sent baxk the registration codes I said
<QUOTE>
WHY is this rigmarole necessary.
Most annoying!
</QUOTE>
turns out Aaron is very touchy about anyone querying the protection. Also
turns out he is extremely touchy about caps. Those two extra caps caused
be to get a lecture on netiquette. From an AOL user - who sents html
attachments to RISC OS users...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. N.B. email address nos...@4qd.org is valid.
All email addresses are copyright. Resale or use on any lists is expressly forbidden.
4QD manufacture speed controllers for battery electric motors.
www sites http://www.4QD.org and http://www.4QD.co.uk
---------- We use a RISC PC 32 bit RISC computer ----------------
Alan Wrigley
Brian Carroll <bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I did the same; with no problem getting a new code from Aaron.
> However, be warned that if you have a wireless net connection in
> your laptop, as I do, you may need two codes: one for when it is
> active and another when it is not. You might as well ask for
> both, as you will need to re-activate if/when you enable/disable
> the wireless connection.
Interesting. I fell foul of that when I disabled my wireless
connection and VRPC stopped. Your post implies that it should have
started working again if I re-enabled wireless but it didn't. I got a
new code from Aaron but I haven't dared re-enable wireless since then
as I don't want to be asking for codes every time I change the
setting.
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents