Acorn project codenames?
Jules
I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
internal project codenames than the one at:
http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
I'm just ploughing through old internal Acorn data and knowing what
hardware or software was being talked about would be rather useful (Kryten
in particular at the moment). Trying to guess all the time's making my
brain hurt :-)
Oh, and did Stork ever materialise into a real machine (the A4 replacement
I gather) or was it always just in the planning stages?
cheers
Jules
Chris W
On 10-Aug-2005, Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> internal project codenames than the one at:
>
> http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
Sorry can't help with the code names ..
> I'm just ploughing through old internal Acorn data and knowing what
> hardware or software was being talked about would be rather useful (Kryten
> in particular at the moment). Trying to guess all the time's making my
> brain hurt :-)
>
> Oh, and did Stork ever materialise into a real machine (the A4 replacement
> I gather) or was it always just in the planning stages?
But the the Stork made it to a prototype/demonstration model but never into
production (obviously). See
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.whytehead/NC.html#Stork for
pictures.
Chris
--
How does a project get to be a year late?... One day at a time.
Chris's Acorns http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.whytehead/
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> internal project codenames than the one at:
>
> http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
enough myself), but that's just awful.
>
>
> I'm just ploughing through old internal Acorn data and knowing what
> hardware or software was being talked about would be rather useful (Kryten
> in particular at the moment). Trying to guess all the time's making my
> brain hurt :-)
Kryten was the A7000.
>
> Oh, and did Stork ever materialise into a real machine (the A4 replacement
> I gather) or was it always just in the planning stages?
Yes, it was a portable, and no, it never went into production.
Cheers
Mike
--
Michael Gilbert: in his own write
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/archiology for old Acorn software items
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/access for Acorn peer-to-peer tools
http://www.lewisgilbert.co.uk/ebay.html for old Acorn hardware items.
Sophie Wilson
news:pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk:
> internal project codenames than the one at:
Hawk: System One
Project A: ARM
Project B: BBC Master
Atom (self referential)
Proton: BBC Microcomputer
Neutron: 16032 based BBC machine-like microcomputer
Electron (self referential)
Aberdeen: Electron's ULA
Squirrel: Intel i860 workstation (it was clearly nuts)
Gold: RISC OS on microkernel
Darwin, Victoria: RISC PC project code names prior to Medusa
Skynet: Multi-tasking Acorn Replay, multiple codecs for it etc
CONTROL RISC: 1988 name for spinning off ARM
Buxton: SA1501
Impala: DSL startup
ALARM: the processor that became Firepath
On the origin of names - well, the ones I thought of (Hawk, Eros for what
became RISC OS, ALARM (A Long ARM)) were generally not very successful.
The duller names were what went before the public(!). I guess I tend to
too much of the flight of fancy (Fred and Jim were me, Sheila was added
by Chris Turner to keep them company) or puns (ALARM being about the
best). Atom/Proton/Neutron/Electron were Chris Curry's idea.
--Sophie
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:christopher.wh...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> On 10-Aug-2005, Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> > internal project codenames than the one at:
> >
> > http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
>
> Sorry can't help with the code names ..
>
> > I'm just ploughing through old internal Acorn data and knowing what
> > hardware or software was being talked about would be rather useful (Kryten
> > in particular at the moment). Trying to guess all the time's making my
> > brain hurt :-)
> >
> > Oh, and did Stork ever materialise into a real machine (the A4 replacement
> > I gather) or was it always just in the planning stages?
>
> But the the Stork made it to a prototype/demonstration model but never into
> production (obviously). See
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.whytehead/NC.html#Stork for
> pictures.
There it says less than 50 produced, make that less than 3!
Once Acorn went to 'Open' mode and showed a group of us dealers around the
development department, they were testing the A7000+ just before launch and
seeing how far they could up the clock speed.
We also saw one of what we were told was two Storks. Apparently Larry
Ellison of Oracle (NC project) asked to take a Stork back to the states and
when they said he couldn't have one, he said 'but I might buy the company'
when told there was only two in existance he understood.
I wonder how things would have gone if he had bought the company, I suspect
not good as he dropped the NC like a brick.
The NC was ahead of it's time.
n.b. I believe the Stork was part funded by the EU
IIRC a certain Mr Spellings worked on part of Stork!
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
Jules
> Neutron: 16032 based BBC machine-like microcomputer
Interesting - that was presumably a seperate project to the ABC2xx (ACW)
line running Pandora?
> Squirrel: Intel i860 workstation (it was clearly nuts)
Hmm, I think I might have some references to that somewhere...
<fx: checks>
Yep, I do. Just some vague stuff about there being an Australian
connection with Squirrel - actually it reads more like Squirrel was an
attempt at a clone machine from a 3rd party, rather than it being an
Acorn doing. The text I have mentions a 4MHz CPU, 256KB of memory and a
6845 for video, with OS loaded from 3.5" floppy rather than ROM.
Possibly this Squirrel was a totally different project to the i860 one, or
did Acorn threaten to sue and then bring the whole lot in-house?
I'm trying to think what other codenames I've come across. Project Black
was RISCOS 3.6 I believe? What about Morris - something to do with the
A7000 from what I've found so far.
Thanks for the list!
Once I've figured out exactly what source and docs I have I'll have to
figure out who technically owns copyright on this stuff these days...
cheers
Jules
Theo Markettos
> Once I've figured out exactly what source and docs I have I'll have to
> figure out who technically owns copyright on this stuff these days...
I think we did that to death a while back. The prognosis being 'nobody
knows': I'm told the 1999 split up of Acorn was so rapid that no-one went
through all the paperwork, and the last recorded location of its legal
remains was the World Trade Center. I'd suggest Castle as being your first
port of call though.
Theo
Jason Tribbeck
> There it says less than 50 produced, make that less than 3!
I had a Stork for a while (4 months?) - the serial number was "B16". I'd
suspect that due to the amount of time I had it, and the serial number,
more than 3 is more likely...
http://www.tribbeck.com/computers/stork/ (just uploaded; I didn't know
where the images were! Unfortunately, I didn't have a good camera at the
time).
> when they said he couldn't have one, he said 'but I might buy the company'
> when told there was only two in existance he understood.
...of course, I don't have any proof of that :)
LongFiles 2 was written on it.
--
Jason Tribbeck
newsm...@tribbeck.com - 20K download limit - anything larger won't
be received.
Jason Tribbeck
> Buxton: SA1501
Ahh yes - I remember that. I was asked to look at the parallel port
specifications for potential Zip drive useage.
Jules
> Sophie Wilson wrote:
>
>> Buxton: SA1501
>
> Ahh yes - I remember that. I was asked to look at the parallel port
> specifications for potential Zip drive useage.
FWIW I think some of the docs I have hint that it should be possible to
boot certain flavours of NC from a zip drive...
Whether all the released ones work like that, I don't know. Plus I haven't
seen anything (yet) which documents the data format needed on the Zip disk
(although given the sources to the NC OS it could be figured out I suppose
- just not really worth the effort!)
cheers
Jules
Alan Wrigley
Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
This has been covered a number of times in the past on c.s.a. A search
through google Groups should turn up the info you need.
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
Jason Tribbeck
> In message <pan.2005.08.10....@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk>
> Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>>FWIW I think some of the docs I have hint that it should be possible to
>>boot certain flavours of NC from a zip drive...
It was never documented, because Acorn requested that it not be public
knowledge. It should've been all the versions that supported Zip drives.
>>Whether all the released ones work like that, I don't know. Plus I haven't
>>seen anything (yet) which documents the data format needed on the Zip disk
>>(although given the sources to the NC OS it could be figured out I suppose
>>- just not really worth the effort!)
>
>
> This has been covered a number of times in the past on c.s.a. A search
> through google Groups should turn up the info you need.
I know that the information has become public, because FWICR it's one of
the ways of getting the NC to boot into another OS.
It wasn't the world's most secure system :)
Jules
> Alan Wrigley wrote:
>> In message <pan.2005.08.10....@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk>
>> Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>FWIW I think some of the docs I have hint that it should be possible to
>>>boot certain flavours of NC from a zip drive...
>
> It was never documented, because Acorn requested that it not be public
> knowledge. It should've been all the versions that supported Zip drives.
Ahh yes... well I'm gleaning all this from internal Acorn
design documentation; I don't think I've ever even seen any 'public' NC
documents to be honest...
> I know that the information has become public, because FWICR it's one of
> the ways of getting the NC to boot into another OS.
>
> It wasn't the world's most secure system :)
Well it's a good thing as far as our museum NCs are concerned as at least
they can be made to Do Something (tm) when the time comes. Mind you, I
have no idea what the smartcard requirements are (I've only seen one
smartcard for them, and managed to discover that the PIN should be 1234 on
all the released cards, but that's it :-)
cheers
Jules
Jason Tribbeck
> Ahh yes... well I'm gleaning all this from internal Acorn
> design documentation; I don't think I've ever even seen any 'public' NC
> documents to be honest...
All the documentation I have (maybe had - I can't remember what happened
to it) was internal documentation that we were allowed to have as part
of being an ISP that supports them.
> Well it's a good thing as far as our museum NCs are concerned as at least
> they can be made to Do Something (tm) when the time comes. Mind you, I
> have no idea what the smartcard requirements are (I've only seen one
> smartcard for them, and managed to discover that the PIN should be 1234 on
> all the released cards, but that's it :-)
They didn't all have 1234 as the PIN number. I've got a stack of old
test cards that we used.
I ended up writing my own smart card 'emulator' that allowed dial up NCs
to think they had a card, but didn't (so all you need to do is plug it
in and click to connect).
Andrew Wickham
Sophie Wilson wrote:
> Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> news:pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk:
> > I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> > internal project codenames than the one at:
>
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8211898904&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Presumably something low-profile - an ARM610-powered STB perhaps?
Handy for RiscPC-in-a-laptop-case DIY, anyway!
Rgds,
Andrew
Thomas Rankin
(to make a 0 slice RPC).
Didn't realise they existed.
What was the codename for the Communicator and iirc there was a machine
Acorn designed for Olivetti that wasn't mentioned.
Jules
>
> Sophie Wilson wrote:
>> Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk:
>> > I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
>> > internal project codenames than the one at:
>>
> Does "Spinner" refer to an Acorn project? see:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8211898904&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
>
> Presumably something low-profile - an ARM610-powered STB perhaps?
It's not a name I've come across, but I suspect you'd be right about a STB
/ NC, or possibly a fileserver. Only other reson for a card like that
would be if something was designed to fit in a standard RPC slice in the
space above that card. Not sure what though; anoher hard disk maybe?
cheers
J.
Jules
> What was the codename for the Communicator and iirc there was a machine
> Acorn designed for Olivetti that wasn't mentioned.
According to the docs, the A680 appears to have started life as a
technical publishing system for Olivetti, before it morphed into a Unix
evaluation system.
No idea about the Communicator codename (or the briefcase version, if it
was seperate), but let me know if you find out!
cheers
Jules
Andrew Wickham
Jules wrote:
>
> It's not a name I've come across, but I suspect you'd be right about a STB
> / NC, or possibly a fileserver. Only other reson for a card like that
> would be if something was designed to fit in a standard RPC slice in the
> space above that card. Not sure what though; anoher hard disk maybe?
>
above-processor space, with a ribbon to a ISA/DEBI adapter podule. But
this only makes sense with a PC card, rather than just an ARM610.
I can't think of any devices to fit the CDROM bay that would be so long
as to clash with the CPU card, and the whole point of the slice design
is to make it easy to add drives in the front bays (and the heat
dissipation for squeezing more into one slice starts to get
problematic).
Rgds,
Andrew
Matthew Hambley
Michael Gilbert <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk>, Jules
> <URL:mailto:julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> > internal project codenames than the one at:
> >
> > http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
>
> I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
> enough myself), but that's just awful.
Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this universe.
--
(\/)atthew )-(ambley ---------------\ If something's worth doing it's worth
E-mail : mat...@aether.demon.co.uk \ doing badly until you can learn to
Public key : C991137B \ do it well.
Web : http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/ \-----------------------------------
David Holden
On 15-Aug-2005, Matthew Hambley <mat...@aether.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
> universe.
But don't you think it's rather rude not to use a capital letter for
Neil's name :-)
--
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:mat...@aether.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local>
> Michael Gilbert <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk>, Jules
> > <URL:mailto:julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> > > internal project codenames than the one at:
> > >
> > > http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
> >
> > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
> > enough myself), but that's just awful.
>
> Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this universe.
>
Jules
> In article <pan.2005.08.09...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk>, Jules
> <URL:mailto:julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
>> internal project codenames than the one at:
>>
>> http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
>
> I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
> enough myself), but that's just awful.
Agreed - but then it's nice that someone's tried to collect the names
together; I'm not aware of them being listed anywhere else. Hmm, maybe I
should put a page up somewhere along with any unknowns that I've come
across...
cheers
Jules
Steve Fryatt
<57d1eb9a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>:
> In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local>
> Michael Gilbert <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
> > enough myself), but that's just awful.
>
> Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
> universe.
So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others, whose
first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
Steven Pampling
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15 Aug, Matthew Hambley wrote in message
> <57d1eb9a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>:
> > In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local>
> > Michael Gilbert <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> > > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
> > > enough myself), but that's just awful.
> >
> > Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
> > universe.
> So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others, whose
> first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
Extremely difficult at work at times - someone in an allied organisation is
dutch-asian and english his *third* language.
BrianCocksedge
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15 Aug, Matthew Hambley wrote in message
> <57d1eb9a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>:
>
>> In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local>
>> Michael Gilbert <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
>> > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I make
>> > enough myself), but that's just awful.
>>
>> Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
>> universe.
>
> So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others, whose
> first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
>
Or others like me who are slightly dislexic.
Brian C
--
__ __ _ __ Acorn RiscPC 124mb. with RISCOS4.37
|__) |__) | /_\ |\ | | /Kinetic and Intel Strong Arm Power
|__) | \ | / \ | \| . |__ / in Lincolnshire.
----------------------------/bcocksedge dot riscpc at ntlworld.com
Ray Dawson
<ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> <57d1eb9a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>:
> > In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local> Michael Gilbert
> > <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
> > > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I
> > > make enough myself), but that's just awful.
> >
> > Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
> > universe.
> So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others, whose
> first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
The Human Mind
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg.
The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at
Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be
in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed
it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey
lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas
thought slpeling was ipmorantt!
Cheers,
Ray D
--
Ray Dawson
r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk
MagRay - the audio & braille specialists
Jules
> In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15 Aug, Matthew Hambley wrote in message
>> <57d1eb9a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>:
>
>> > In message <ant10071...@riscpc.local> Michael Gilbert
>> > <mic...@lewisgilbert.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I'd have more confidence if s/he could spell, or at least spell
>> > > consistently. I'm prepared to forgive errors in news postings (I
>> > > make enough myself), but that's just awful.
>> >
>> > Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this
>> > universe.
>
>> So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others, whose
>> first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
>
> The Human Mind
>
> I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg.
> The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at
> Cmabrigde Uinervtisy,
Except that Cambridge never did any such study... ;)
I got the impression that the owner of the website doesn't have English as
their first language, rather than it being a case of bad spelling. I think
I still prefer that someone's made the effort versus nobody bothering at
all though!
cheers
Jules
VinceH (real address)
Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others,
> > whose first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
> The Human Mind
[...]
> it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
> pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it
> wouthit a porbelm.
Shame it isn't true. It took me a lot longer to read
that paragraph than it takes me to read one of similar
length but without the spelling silliness. I can even
read upside down/back to front faster than it took me
to read that.
VinceH
--
http://www.softrock.co.uk http://www.webchange.co.uk http://www.vinceh.com
A bio with some actual bones for fido content:
http://www.vinceh.com/vinceh/
"Zombies, man... They creep me out."
Adam
"VinceH (real address)" <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1124268203.1ae1993e05da11e3c32d9b613a137c22@teranews>,
> Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others,
> > > whose first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
>
> > The Human Mind
>
> [...]
>
> > it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> > iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
> > pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it
> > wouthit a porbelm.
>
> Shame it isn't true.
If "it" is "you can still read it without a problem", then it's certainly
true for me. Everyone reads differently though, so I'm sure it's not a
universal rule. No doubt some people could deal with having sets of words
messed up too!
Adam
--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem
Graham Pegg
> In article <1124268203.1ae1993e05da11e3c32d9b613a137c22@teranews>,
> Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others,
> > > whose first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
>
> > The Human Mind
>
> [...]
>
> > it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
> > iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
> > pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it
> > wouthit a porbelm.
>
> Shame it isn't true. It took me a lot longer to read
> that paragraph than it takes me to read one of similar
> length but without the spelling silliness. I can even
> read upside down/back to front faster than it took me
> to read that.
Did you look too hard at each word? I found that 'scanning', which doesn't
even involve looking directly at every word, I could read it very easily,
with no sensation of being slowed down.
Graham
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Graham Pegg 'Uncle Greyboots' D...@therpc.f9.co.uk |
| Using British Technology: Acorn RiscPC + StrongArm processor |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Computing should be a Risc-y business
VinceH (real address)
Graham Pegg <D...@therpc.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <4d9beb6...@softrock.co.uk>
> "VinceH (real address)" <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
> > Shame it isn't true. It took me a lot longer to read
> > that paragraph than it takes me to read one of similar
> > length but without the spelling silliness. I can even
> > read upside down/back to front faster than it took me
> > to read that.
> Did you look too hard at each word? I found that 'scanning', which
> doesn't even involve looking directly at every word, I could read
> it very easily, with no sensation of being slowed down.
That's how I normally read - somewhere inbetween speed
reading and reading properly is a good description, I
suppose. If I feel something warrants a more careful
read, or if it's proving difficult to read - or, as in
this case, the results don't make enough sense - then I
slow down.
I think it's the 'shape' of words that I pick up on, in
combination with /some/ letters, when I do that
(certainly, I went for a very long time when I was
younger without glasses when I needed them badly, and
that's one aspect of how I used to 'get by'). I think
this is also why I'm quite adept at reading upside down,
etc.
The shape of the words in Ray's post was wrong, so I had
to slow down.
(This does loosely relate to what Ray said, of course -
that the human mind looks at the word as a whole, and
not the individual letters - but for me "the word as a
whole" includes its shape).
And, as an afterthought, another reason to make the
effort to get it right is for the benefit of people
using a text-to-speech system. Some mistakes are one
thing, but it's best left as that - /some/ mistakes,
made by people who put in the effort to get it right.
druck
The type of very mild dyslexia I have means I see word shapes rather than
individual letters, so I can read the above text very easily, but I have
great difficulty remembering spellings and spotting mistakes.
---druck
--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
Steven Pampling
The statement was incorrect for the exact reason Vince quoted:
It takes longer to read when it has been scrambled like that than it does
when inverted or reversed therefore there is a problem. That fact that it
can be read with some slow down is testament to the other fact that it
isn't an insurmountable problem. Never the less everyone finds it easier to
read correctly spelled and formatted text plain and simply because that is
what they are used to doing.
There are two aspect to all this:
1. One should make allowances for people making the occasional mistake.
2. Where people are presenting factual information they should make an
effort to use available facilities to present the facts in a decent
coherent form and correct spelling is part of this.
Grammar is probably more a stylistic thing but linguistic slang is normally
avoided.
As far as spelling is concerned there are likely to be few people with no
access to a spell checker. The author has gone as far as using cascading
style sheets for the page preparation which suggests they used something
other than RISC OS kit to do the job.
Wendy Gray
Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
For me this was true; I read the above message just as quickly as a 'normal'
one. However, I have a particular aptitude for solving anagrams - I can sort
of make the letters float around on purpose, a bit like a controlled form of
dyslexia. It also helps that I'm a Primary School teacher (are the 2 linked,
she wonders). I would suspect that there are many who would have thought you
had rot13ed the above :-)
My view is that spelling infers an awful lot about the person writing and the
situation. Applying for a new job I'd get someone else to proof read. I'm not
fussed if I get 'broccolli' (sic) wrong on my shopping list.
Of course in newsgroups, no-one makes spelling mistakes, just typographical
errors!
Wendy
--
Please change 'newsgrps' to my full name, no punctuation.
dominic beesley
> In article <1124268203.1ae1993e05da11e3c32d9b613a137c22@teranews>,
> Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
>>Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>>So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others,
>>>whose first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
>
>
>>The Human Mind
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
>>iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
>>pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it
>>wouthit a porbelm.
>
>
> Shame it isn't true. It took me a lot longer to read
> that paragraph than it takes me to read one of similar
> length but without the spelling silliness. I can even
> read upside down/back to front faster than it took me
> to read that.
>
I found it just as quick to scan, but with the odd snag when one part of
my brain had already _understood_ a word and another part stopped me to
tell me it was wrong. Maybe we have _understanding_ and _pedantry_
centres in our brains. Some people, having huge pedantry centres, appear
to find it difficult or impossible to understand simple messages with
even a small number of mistakes?
Just a theory I've had for a while, working in legal publishing, where a
well thought out argument will be ignored due to a single typo,
grammatical error or spelling mistake. Whereas wooly, long winded, ill
considered, but "perfect" documents win.
I'm not at all bitter though and - this may be hard to beleive, given my
shocking utility of the language - working in such an environment has
forced me to learn to spell.
I myself find it less difficult to decipher duff documentation, having
had to use some pretty piss-poor American corporations rubbish. That was
why I used occasionally to read, for pleasure, the (comparatively)
beautifully written PRMs. ;)
Dom
Neil Spellings
> IIRC a certain Mr Spellings worked on part of Stork!
Aye - a rather neat parallel port floppy disc interface (this was before
the days of USB) and the backlight circuitry.
Shame it never made it into full production.
Back on topic - I emailed a number of additional project names to the
maintainer of that site but he never added them.
I've probably forgotten them now as it was over 10 years ago!
Cheers,
/Neil/
('Spider' is one that I do remember though - FPA11!)
--
Web design, hosting and domain registration
http://www.spellings.net/
Hardware store
http://buyit.spellings.net
Neil Spellings
> Absolutely because spelling is the most important thing in this universe.
Absolutely indeed!
:-)
Cheers,
/Neil/
Neil Spellings
> What about Morris - something to do with the
> A7000 from what I've found so far.
ISTR Morris was either the A7000 or the ARM7500 which it contained.
VinceH (real address)
VinceH (real address) <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
> And, as an afterthought, another reason to make the
> effort to get it right is for the benefit of people
> using a text-to-speech system. Some mistakes are one
> thing, but it's best left as that - /some/ mistakes,
> made by people who put in the effort to get it right.
And as an afterthought to my original afterthought
(perhaps making that original afterthought a
middlethought, but that's a different subject so I
think I'll hold that thought) there is also the matter
of what Ray posted his gibberish in reply to, which I
did originally quote:
In article <bab7819b...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> So you don't believe that communicating effectively with others,
> whose first language may not necessarily be English, is important?
VinceH
Theo Markettos
> Aye - a rather neat parallel port floppy disc interface
I wondered about that when I read your Acorn User interview. Was there much
to it? I almost got a floppy drive working on the parallel port of a Risc
PC simply by wiring it up and setting the 'parallel port floppy drive' bit
in the FDC37C665GT. Then I discovered RISC OS needed an interrupt on the
INDEX line which I couldn't provide without taking a wire inside the
machine. The disc spun up and everything, just RISC OS claimed 'Drive
empty' due to no INDEX interrupt.
I suppose if you were using an off-the-shelf floppy drive the wiring might
have meant you had to design another interface.
Theo
Neil Spellings
> Was there much
> to it?
Not a great deal. Some extra circuitry hanging off the parallel lines to
detect a floppy being plugged in which then switched some of the
unused output pins to provide power. And the required ADFS changes to
drive it via the combo chip of course. I think the floppy was a standard
part.
I remember when we revisited ADFS and Portable modules for Stork looking
at some of the power management stuff that was done for the A4 there
were a fair number of bugs in the power saving code.
Cheers,
/Neil/
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jules <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Once I've figured out exactly what source and docs I have I'll have to
> > figure out who technically owns copyright on this stuff these days...
>
> I think we did that to death a while back. The prognosis being 'nobody
> knows': I'm told the 1999 split up of Acorn was so rapid that no-one went
> through all the paperwork, and the last recorded location of its legal
> remains was the World Trade Center. I'd suggest Castle as being your first
> port of call though.
MDDW Holdings bought all the assets that weren't specifically transffered to
Pace, Castle or e14 inc.
Even if they knew what IPR they owned which I doubt (they are merchant
bankers) MSDW Holdings wouldn't be interested to talk to anyone unless the
income would be I guess 6 figuers minimum.
So a lot of IPR is now lost:-(
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
mar...@gmail.com
documents then you'll have done better than me. Emailed both directors
and got nothing from either of them :( [1]
So publish and be dammed, and if anyone ever claims them then pull
them.
Stuff I've scanned previously.
http://www.drobe.co.uk/reference/early_datasheets/
http://www.iconbar.com/archive/clan/
Which reminds me, I ought to disc image the Clan floppy discs/CD and
post them to TIB. (unless of course, someone is willing to speak up
this time ?????)
Peter
[1] Cue the 'Why didn't you phone them' posts.
Matthew Barnett
[snip]
> Just a theory I've had for a while, working in legal publishing, where a
> well thought out argument will be ignored due to a single typo,
> grammatical error or spelling mistake. Whereas wooly, long winded, ill
> considered, but "perfect" documents win.
>
> I'm not at all bitter though and - this may be hard to beleive, given my
> shocking utility of the language - working in such an environment has
> forced me to learn to spell.
>
druck
> If you manage to get a reply from Castle with regards to the (c) of old
> documents then you'll have done better than me. Emailed both directors
> and got nothing from either of them :( [1]
How long did you give them to reply? Its likely they will have more pressing
issues to attend to and such documents may take quite a while to uncover. I
wouldn't expect a reply to such things in under a month.
Aaron
owned the rights to those documents? Wouldn't they know what
they had purchased for "an undisclosed cash sum"?
However are you sure you are asking the right people, after all
the purchase of RISC OS was subject to a "grant of a licence back
to Pace for intellectual property rights."
And before I get flamed may I just point out that I am quoting from
a Castle press release.
Aaron
Peter Howkins
> On 18 Aug 2005 mar...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If you manage to get a reply from Castle with regards to the (c) of old
> > documents then you'll have done better than me. Emailed both directors
> > and got nothing from either of them :( [1]
>
> How long did you give them to reply? Its likely they will have more pressing
> issues to attend to and such documents may take quite a while to uncover. I
> wouldn't expect a reply to such things in under a month.
>
I would have hoped that in the 8 months since I sent the emails they
might have had a chance to look, but obviously not ...
Peter
Peter Howkins
> Surely you aren't suggesting that they would have to check if they
> owned the rights to those documents? Wouldn't they know what
> they had purchased for "an undisclosed cash sum"?
>
> However are you sure you are asking the right people, after all
> the purchase of RISC OS was subject to a "grant of a licence back
> to Pace for intellectual property rights."
>
I might be reading it wrong, but to me it read as 'Castle get the
rights to be the licensor of RISC OS, but had to give a free license to
Pace, so Pace won't incur any license fees to Castle if Pace should
sell any more NCOS/RISC OS based products'
I believe E14 got a similar deal to that in the original Acorn breakup.
Peter
dominic beesley
That was, a typo, of course...i before e except after c, arse I'll never
remember it!!!!
Cheers
Dom
Dave Symes
dominic beesley <dom-...@brahms.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> That was, a typo, of course...i before e except after c, arse I'll never
> remember it!!!!
> Cheers
> Dom
Not forgetting any exceptions... Kaleidoscope. :-{
Cheers
Dave S
--
Matthew Barnett
Theo Markettos
> I don't suppose anyone has a more comprehensive list of Acorn
> internal project codenames than the one at:
>
> http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/computing/acorn/codenames.html
Lazarus was the Bush Internet TV. Pity it was only rigor mortis setting in.
Anna - MEMC1
Arabella - VIDC1
Albion - IOC
Theo
John Cartmell
Matthew Barnett <ne...@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote:
> > In article <de4gmn$maa$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>,
> > dominic beesley <dom-...@brahms.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>That was, a typo, of course...i before e except after c, arse I'll never
> >>remember it!!!!
> > Not forgetting any exceptions... Kaleidoscope. :-{
> >
> Or "efficient", "science", "society", any word ending in "-cies", ...
Not exceptions. The full rule is:
"i before e except after c whenever you want the ee sound with i and e"
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Matthew Barnett
> In article <43062ca5$0$17503$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
> Matthew Barnett <ne...@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>
>>Dave Symes wrote:
>>
>>>In article <de4gmn$maa$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>,
>>> dominic beesley <dom-...@brahms.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That was, a typo, of course...i before e except after c, arse I'll never
>>>>remember it!!!!
>
>
>>>Not forgetting any exceptions... Kaleidoscope. :-{
>>>
>>
>>Or "efficient", "science", "society", any word ending in "-cies", ...
>
>
> Not exceptions. The full rule is:
> "i before e except after c whenever you want the ee sound with i and e"
>
John Cartmell
Matthew Barnett <ne...@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> John Cartmell wrote:
> > In article <43062ca5$0$17503$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
> > Matthew Barnett <ne...@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Dave Symes wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <de4gmn$maa$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>,
> >>> dominic beesley <dom-...@brahms.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>That was, a typo, of course...i before e except after c, arse I'll never
> >>>>remember it!!!!
> >
> >
> >>>Not forgetting any exceptions... Kaleidoscope. :-{
> >>>
> >>
> >>Or "efficient", "science", "society", any word ending in "-cies", ...
> >
> >
> > Not exceptions. The full rule is:
> > "i before e except after c whenever you want the ee sound with i and e"
> >
> For "science", etc, yes, but the ending "-cies" does have the "ee" sound.
Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only applies when you're
talking about an 'ee' sound. That's why it doesn't apply with "efficient",
"science", "society", any word ending in "-cies", ...
They aren't exceptions - they just don't fit when people don't use the full
rule - which is almost invariably unless some pedant comes along and points it
out ... ;-)
Terry
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only applies
> when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
Um. I find that a little weird.
--
__o Terry Mills Norwich - Up The Canaries!!
_`\<,_ te...@norridge.org.uk Clan 3444; Foundation 0037
(_)/*(_) Who needs Bill Gates? Iyonix 512
Phone: 01603-427900 http://www.norridge.org.uk
Qercus editor
Terry <te...@norridge.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <4d9d527...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only applies
> > when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
> Um. I find that a little weird.
There are still exceptions of course and one may need to seize a cup of
caffein or inveigle a couple of codeines to cope with those species. Just
don't try bringing either leisure nor geisha into the conversation as neither
is spoken with an ee sound unless you talk funny. OK? ;-)
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:edi...@qercus.com> wrote:
> In article <b28cd89d4d...@norridge.org.uk>,
> Terry <te...@norridge.org.uk> wrote:
> > In message <4d9d527...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only applies
> > > when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
>
> > Um. I find that a little weird.
>
> There are still exceptions of course and one may need to seize a cup of
> caffein or inveigle a couple of codeines to cope with those species. Just
> don't try bringing either leisure nor geisha into the conversation as neither
> is spoken with an ee sound unless you talk funny. OK? ;-)
Given the exceptions to the exceptions of the rule I think all is lost as
far as my spelling is concerned, my brain is just small and is full of other
more important/trivial information.
I do try by keeping a file of the common words I miss-spell on my pinboard,
I've got to bother to check it and not be confident I've got it right of
course!
Ray Dawson
<ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only
> > > > applies when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
> >
> > > Um. I find that a little weird.
> >
> > There are still exceptions of course and one may need to seize a cup
> > of caffein or inveigle a couple of codeines to cope with those
> > species. Just don't try bringing either leisure nor geisha into the
> > conversation as neither is spoken with an ee sound unless you talk
> > funny. OK? ;-)
> Given the exceptions to the exceptions of the rule I think all is lost
> as far as my spelling is concerned, my brain is just small and is full
> of other more important/trivial information.
Forget exceptions, just spell it as you think right. You'll soon be
corrected here :-)
Cheers,
Ray D
--
Ray Dawson
r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk
MagRay - the audio & braille specialists
John Cartmell
> <URL:mailto:edi...@qercus.com> wrote:
> > In article <b28cd89d4d...@norridge.org.uk>, Terry
> > <te...@norridge.org.uk> wrote:
> > > In message <4d9d527...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell
> > > <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only applies
> > > > when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
> >
> > > Um. I find that a little weird.
> >
> > There are still exceptions of course and one may need to seize a cup of
> > caffein or inveigle a couple of codeines to cope with those species. Just
> > don't try bringing either leisure nor geisha into the conversation as
> > neither is spoken with an ee sound unless you talk funny. OK? ;-)
> Given the exceptions to the exceptions of the rule I think all is lost as
> far as my spelling is concerned, my brain is just small and is full of
> other more important/trivial information.
Most of the exceptions are in my paragraph above!
[Snip]
John Cartmell
Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant22145...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris Evans
> <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Read the full rule again. "i before e except after c" only
> > > > > applies when you're talking about an 'ee' sound.
> > >
> > > > Um. I find that a little weird.
> > >
> > > There are still exceptions of course and one may need to seize a cup
> > > of caffein or inveigle a couple of codeines to cope with those
> > > species. Just don't try bringing either leisure nor geisha into the
> > > conversation as neither is spoken with an ee sound unless you talk
> > > funny. OK? ;-)
> > Given the exceptions to the exceptions of the rule I think all is lost
> > as far as my spelling is concerned, my brain is just small and is full
> > of other more important/trivial information.
> Forget exceptions, just spell it as you think right. You'll soon be
> corrected here :-)
I'm waiting for someone to correct my "either ... nor". I *know* I deleted the
n of nor when I re-jigged that sentence! ;-(