Games the Arc is remarkably lacking in...
Tim/Adrian Jackson
notice two types of game that are very notably missing.
The first is the good old fashioned sideways-scrolling shoot-'em-up. The
only contenders here appear to be the slightly dated Nevryon, and the
so-dire-that-even-the-Fourth-Dimension-wouldn't-publish-it Technodream.
Well, okay, it's not that bad, but nor is it a patch on the original. Since
then the only thing to happen with sideways-scrolling shooters was Scorpius,
which looked really quite impressive, but seems to have sunk pretty much
without a trace.
And the other is one-on-one beat-'em-ups. Here there's nothing except for
the game from Matt Black (I think), whose name I can't remember. Having seen
that even the PC can do acceptable beat-'em-ups (such as One Must Fall 2097)
I can't work out why nobody has knocked together an Arc one.
Is there any particular reason why these games don't make an appearance on
the Arc? Am I the only person who likes to play them? Are the current
offerings so good that nobody wants to challenge them? Is everybody too
busy working on polymesh objects and making sure that not a month goes by
without Acorn User mentioning 'that game'? Or (and this is the option I
like) are there shooters and beat-'em-ups galore in the pipeline, just
waiting to be released while I'm out of the country?
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| Adrian Jackson| iap...@chelston.u-net.com |http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d3jccx/ |
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Toby Haynes
Tim/Adrian Jackson <iap...@chelston.u-net.com> wrote:
>A quick glance through my games collection and various lists of games, I
>notice two types of game that are very notably missing.
>
>The first is the good old fashioned sideways-scrolling shoot-'em-up. The
>
>And the other is one-on-one beat-'em-ups.
[fx: fanfare ][plug mode ON]
Well - if a sideways scrolly (well multidirectional parallax scrolly)
beat-em-up with weapons and power-ups is what you are after, can I
recommend **Stryker's Run III** which should be appearing in the not-too-
distant future. Okay - maybe you're not piloting a space craft, but the
rest is there!
[plug mode OFF]
Disclaimer: I am seriously biased as I am one of the artists for SRIII ;-)
Cheers,
Toby
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Toby Haynes | "Alarm clock? Oh, you mean the sad pile of
Rm 924, MRAO | cogs and twisted springs under that dent
Uni. of Cambridge | in the wall?"
Robin N. Moffatt
> A quick glance through my games collection and various lists of games, I
> notice two types of game that are very notably missing.
>
> The first is the good old fashioned sideways-scrolling shoot-'em-up. The
> only contenders here appear to be the slightly dated Nevryon, and the
> so-dire-that-even-the-Fourth-Dimension-wouldn't-publish-it Technodream.
> Well, okay, it's not that bad, but nor is it a patch on the original. Since
> then the only thing to happen with sideways-scrolling shooters was Scorpius,
> which looked really quite impressive, but seems to have sunk pretty much
> without a trace.
Turn your monitor on it's side and play Xenon 2 <g>
What about flight sims?
BOW is shite, chocks away a good laugh, but not much content....
Anyone played "Face to Face" (IIRC the name:)
I've seen it advertised in AU, but not heard anything about it otherwise
--
*******************************************
* Robin N. Moffatt * "It is better to have loved and
* Sheffield, England __o * lost than never to have lost
* Rob...@moffatt.demon.co.uk _ \<,_ * at all"
* ___________________________(_)/_(_)______ * -Samuel Butler
...No French nuclear testing....support Greenpeace....boycott French goods..
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> Anyone remeber a game called Provocator? That looked very good, but I never got
> to have a proper look at it, and now it seems it's unavailable. Can anyone say
> whether it's much better than Nevryon or Technodream?
I know someone who has got it. I didnt like it much, it looks very nice and it
is *FAST* - old mr.Partis himself could have written it :-). It seemed nice
but if I remember correctly it was a bit like Defender with more bells and
whistles. But then it was a LONG time ago, maybe my brain is just going?
Berty
Adrian Jackson
> Anyone remeber a game called Provocator? That looked very good, but I
> never got to have a proper look at it, and now it seems it's unavailable.
> Can anyone say whether it's much better than Nevryon or Technodream?
Yes. I can. I've got a demo of it lurking around somewhere, and far from
being an actual sideways shooting type game, it's more like Defender (or
Planetoid :-) with knobs on. It was very fast, very smooth, very pretty,
and remarkably fun to play. If you're interested, I'll see if I can dig
the demo out some time.
Adrian
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Adrian Jackson| iap...@chelston.u-net.com |http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d3jccx/ |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new |
| discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." |
| - Isaac Asimov |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
David Radford
TJ> Is there any particular reason why these games don't make an appearance
TJ> on the Arc? Am I the only person who likes to play them?
No! I've been waiting for one for ages! Back on the Speccy, my second
favourite game was Target Renegade, no question.
BTW, you missed out the lack of any decent thinking/stategy games (and I don't
mean chess). Sim City is the only one I can think of off hand. For example,
one of my all time fav. games was Dark Sceptre, which could be made into a
really cracking game on the Arc: digitised character types, parallex
scrolling, fighting noises, etc, etc. I was even so desparate I started
writing a DS clone a couple of years ago, but had to give it up because there
was no way I'd be able to produce all the graphics for it. Oh well.
Dave
... My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship ...
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Matthew Bloch
> for the game from Matt Black (I think), whose name I can't remember.
> Having seen that even the PC can do acceptable beat-'em-ups (such as
> One Must Fall 2097) I can't work out why nobody has knocked together an
> Arc one.
biggies such as SF2 have a lot of research and testing put into them to make
them fun - your average Arc programmer (OK, me!) probably won't have the time
to research games to this sort of depth.
Shoot-em-ups of the R-Type variety are fairly conventional games to program,
but again, the modern shoot-em-up has big 3D graphics, exquisite game design,
graphics, music etc. Again, difficult for the programmer working from his
bedroom.
..Matthew..
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> games... large scale stuff...
Which, coincidentally, is what Im writing!
Berty
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> but again, the modern shoot-em-up has big 3D graphics, exquisite game design,
> graphics, music etc. Again, difficult for the programmer working from his
> bedroom.
Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
Berty - not working a bedroom at all.
Gareth S. Long
Mbl...@arcade.demon.co.uk (Matthew Bloch) wrote:
> > And the other is one-on-one beat-'em-ups. Here there's nothing except
> > for the game from Matt Black (I think), whose name I can't remember.
> > Having seen that even the PC can do acceptable beat-'em-ups (such as
> > One Must Fall 2097) I can't work out why nobody has knocked together an
> > Arc one.
>
> Beat-em-ups are v. hard to program well (as well as draw graphics for) and the
> biggies such as SF2 have a lot of research and testing put into them to make
> them fun - your average Arc programmer (OK, me!) probably won't have the time
> to research games to this sort of depth.
I have the code for SFII in front of me :-) The code is simple - the graphic
data took a lot of work. it would be very easy to write for the Arc - and it
would be very easy to come up with something better than Grievous bodily
'ARM..
We need a game like this, and we need more good puzzle-solving Arcade adventure
games... large scale stuff...
--
Gatch
Toby Haynes
company with lots of capital to sink into marketing and actors and other stuff
It's not easy to produce massive complex games without getting paid up front
as well - to really produce amazing games takes time and experience which
being employed by a Games company like say Psynosis would probably give you.
However, the small nature of the Archi market does mean that small groups or
even individuals can produce games for sale, and just about be spared the
financial horrors. Eg Berty, and other groups, like the Stryker's Run
one that I am involved with.
However, I now believe that there is a shift in the Archi games scene. I
think that we will see more games starting to push the upper end of the
market - the days of games which will run acceptably on an ARM 2 are severly
limited.
So wait and see. ;-)
Cheers,
Toby
who does work in his bedroom :-)
Gareth S. Long
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk (you) wrote:
> > Shoot-em-ups of the R-Type variety are fairly conventional games to program,
> > but again, the modern shoot-em-up has big 3D graphics, exquisite game design,
> > graphics, music etc. Again, difficult for the programmer working from his
> > bedroom.
>
> Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
>
> Berty - not working a bedroom at all.
Didn't you finish WaveLength in Stevenage, with your A3000 and monitor
on your bed..?
You could sell your story to Acorn User...
--
Gatch
Gareth S. Long
> > We need a game like this, and we need more good puzzle-solving Arcade adventure
> > games... large scale stuff...
>
> Which, coincidentally, is what Im writing!
Hurry up and finish it then? :-)
PS What's left to do?
--
Gatch
Ben Jefferys
> Anyone remeber a game called Provocator? That looked very good, but I never got
> to have a proper look at it, and now it seems it's unavailable. Can anyone say
> whether it's much better than Nevryon or Technodream?
>
I had (and probably still have) a demo of it. It was nice and fast, with good
(v. detailed) graphics, but quite boring. You spend most of your time
looking at the little scanner (yes, its *that* type of game...)
--
Ben Jefferys on Phillip Temple's RiscPC
Mucal infoflap
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> >> bedroom.
> >Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
> If you want games like the PC ones then you need an SGI as well. Also a
> company with lots of capital to sink into marketing and actors and other stuff
And thats all very difficult to fit into my bedroom never mind anyone else's
bedroom.
> It's not easy to produce massive complex games without getting paid up front
> as well - to really produce amazing games takes time and experience which
> being employed by a Games company like say Psynosis would probably give you.
The whole of Psygnosis in a bedroom?!? Im surprised they still have time to
write games after all that. Or the energy.
> Eg Berty, and other groups
What?!? In whose bedroom?
> one that I am involved with.
You promised you wouldnt say!
> push the upper end of the market
I dont wish to know thankyou.
> Toby
> who does work in his bedroom :-)
Berty - the mind behind Hamsters oo-er!
Tim/Adrian Jackson
> If you want games like the PC ones then you need an SGI as well.
Not strictly speaking true. Look at quite a few of the games that have been
big on the PC recently: Doom, Descent, Terminal Velocity, Colonization etc.
None of these needed an SGI to provide their graphics. The SGI-produced
graphics thing seems to be more of a SNES concept.
> Also a
> company with lots of capital to sink into marketing and actors and other
> stuff It's not easy to produce massive complex games without getting paid
> up front as well - to really produce amazing games takes time and
> experience which being employed by a Games company like say Psynosis would
> probably give you.
Again, actors and things aren't really necessary all that often. Wander
briefly into rec.games.video.advocacy and the like, and you will see post
upon post bewailing the evils of games with too many FMV clips. When it
comes down to it, you can produce quality games without any of these extra
gimmicks - I call to witness anything by Sid Meyer (sp?).
> However, the small nature of the Archi market does mean that small groups
> or even individuals can produce games for sale, and just about be spared
> the financial horrors. Eg Berty, and other groups, like the Stryker's Run
> one that I am involved with.
The other thing it means is that people seem to think they can get away with
releasing games that aren't quite up to scratch in the polish department.
I'd just like to say one thing to everyone working on games at the moment:
<rant>
*PLEASE* get them playtested properly. Maybe I'm being just a little bit too
demanding, but I'd like to see the odd game released that has been tested
thoroughly before being thrown out onto the market. Burn 'Out could have
seriously benefited from some independent playtesting. A lot of the problems
with Cyber Ape would have disappeared without trace had it been properly
playtested before release. FTT would have been that little bit more
impressive. And perhaps the end sequence on Dune II would have worked.
</rant>
> However, I now believe that there is a shift in the Archi games scene. I
> think that we will see more games starting to push the upper end of the
> market - the days of games which will run acceptably on an ARM 2 are
> severly limited.
Oh, I do hope so. Well, not so much that programmers will start getting
sloppy, writing all their games in interpreted ML and insisting on at least
an ARM 9 to run their noughts and crosses game (which seems to happen a lot
in the PC world). But that there will be games that make use of the power of
higher end machines.
> So wait and see. ;-)
I'm waiting. Although unless you've got a release schedule that involves
SR III being out in time for me to buy it by Tuesday, I won't be seeing
until I get back from Russia next year.
Ho hum.
Adrian
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Adrian Jackson| iap...@chelston.u-net.com |http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d3jccx/ |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Cats don't hunt seals. They would if they knew what they were and where |
| to find them. But they don't, so that's all right. |
| - Terry Pratchett, The Unadulterated Cat |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Gary Partis
what each individual game has/hasn't got... :-)
+------------------------------+
| Gary Partis |
| Partis Logistics Ltd |
| |
| gjpa...@cix.compulink.co.uk |
+------------------------------+
Matthew Hambley
>> Shoot-em-ups of the R-Type variety are fairly conventional games to
>> program, but again, the modern shoot-em-up has big 3D graphics, exquisite
> Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
artists that the Amiga market has to spare, then the programmer wouldn't
have to worry about all that :-)
(\/)atthew, It doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white as long
as it's been cooked in a wok.
Daniel Simms
> In article <19950825....@wossname.demon.co.uk>
> Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> >> Shoot-em-ups of the R-Type variety are fairly conventional games to
> >> program, but again, the modern shoot-em-up has big 3D graphics, exquisite
> >> game design, graphics, music etc. Again, difficult for the programmer
> >> working from his bedroom.
>
> > Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
>
> No, what would realy help is if we could bag some of the graphics
> artists that the Amiga market has to spare, then the programmer wouldn't
> have to worry about all that :-)
These Amiga artists are probably all working for PC/Console companies. (They
would not work on an Acorn game anyway - there is not enough money to be made)
--
Daniel Simms
Sam Pay
> biggies such as SF2 have a lot of research and testing put into them to
> make them fun -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ahem.
Play MK3.
It's the law.
*Dont encourage Capcom!*
--
+<|;-)__ ;-)
/ /\ The above message are the views Sam Pythagoras Pay.
/ / \ You have been warned.
/ / /\ \
/ / /\ \ \ Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
/ /_/__\ \ \
/________\ \ \ Replies to S...@stsm.demon.co.uk
\___________\/ Flames to anyone else :-)
... Closing on ship target. Music on! Fire away!
Gunnlaugur Jonsson
>These Amiga artists are probably all working for PC/Console companies. (They
>would not work on an Acorn game anyway - there is not enough money to be made)
Surely there are some that aren't working on any computer and would jump
at the opportunity to work in computer game graphics. The trouble is
only finding them.
Gulli
Matthew Bloch
Mortal Kombat (and the sequel) has to be one of the most stunning games I've
played for a while. Never mind that it takes a couple of weeks to finish on
your own - it really makes owning a Mega Drive worthwhile (OK, I confess...)
with two players.
You can fill in the usual moans about an Arc conversion yourself. I'm not
going to do anything about it ;-)
..Matthew..
Matthew Bloch
> what each individual game has/hasn't got... :-)
Impact, Ego, hmm?
Matthew Bloch
Wallow in your smugness, why don't you :-)
Matthew Bloch
> and it is *FAST* - old mr.Partis himself could have written it :-).
Matthew Bloch
> never got to have a proper look at it, and now it seems it's
> unavailable. Can anyone say whether it's much better than Nevryon or
> Technodream?
Defender game. The £25 price tag put me off, as always...
I'm not sure who marketed it ... CIS? I can't remember to be honest.
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> > Would it help if we worked from someone else's bedroom?!?
>
> No, what would realy help is if we could bag some of the graphics
> artists that the Amiga market has to spare, then the programmer wouldn't
> have to worry about all that :-)
Yes, but then we'd have to pay them. In fact the money we gave them would
probably need to be more than we get ourselves and we'd all end up in
huge amounts of debt.
I for one dont want to do that!
Berty
Gareth S. Long
Mbl...@arcade.demon.co.uk (Matthew Bloch) wrote:
> > I have the code for SFII in front of me :-) The code is simple ...
>
> Wallow in your smugness, why don't you :-)
>
> ..Matthew..
I try my best :-)
PS It's crap, tho.
--
Gatch
Scott
>Yes, but then we'd have to pay them. In fact the money we gave them >would probably need to be more than we get ourselves and we'd =
all end up >in huge amounts of debt.
>
>I for one dont want to do that!
>
>Berty
Surely there would be some people who would be willing to offer their
services for nowt until the games is published and then expect a fair
share of the profits.
I'd like to help design a game and would do it for nothing just so I can
gain a bit of experience and see an end product.
Scott..
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
> >would probably need to be more than we get ourselves and we'd
> >
> >I for one dont want to do that!
>
> services for nowt until the games is published and then expect a fair
> share of the profits.
profits?!?
> I'd like to help design a game and would do it for nothing just so I can
> gain a bit of experience and see an end product.
No you wouldnt. You'd get bored after a few weeks and do something more
useful/fun instead! Sorry to sound cynical, but that's how it usually goes.
If you REALLY wanted to write a game, you'd have done it by now.
Berty
Scott
>> I'd like to help design a game and would do it for nothing just so I
>> can gain a bit of experience and see an end product.
>No you wouldnt. You'd get bored after a few weeks and do something more
>useful/fun instead! Sorry to sound cynical, but that's how it usually >goes. If you REALLY wanted to write a game, you'd have done it by now.
I WOULD have wrote a game by now if I had enough programming skill to do
it. I wouldn't get bored....try me...
Scott...
Who is desperately trying not to make this sound like an argument
Be...@wossname.demon.co.uk
>
> >useful/fun instead!
>
> it. I wouldn't get bored....try me...
You get the programming skill from trying to do it! Who said anything in
life was easy.
Berty
Russ Juckes
B9> Who said anything in life was easy.
B9> Berty
It was you wasn't it? ;)
|"And I'll kneel in the Big Church as I pray to the Big Gods..."| - O
|"Big Time! I've got to make it show, yeah!" | |
|"I'm on my way, I'm making it: So much larger than life." | \___/ Russ
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