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Pluto becoming idiosyncratic
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Stuart
Apr 20, 2012, 4:09:01 AM4/20/12
to
This is a strange one, going on now for several weeks.
I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
hit "space"
Going back and editing to "of" is ok as long as I move the cursor away
immediately.
It has happened in every instance of the word "of" in this news post,
including when I close the quote mark around it.
I do not have "check as you type" enabled and as far as I am aware it only
happens with "of", "off" is perfectly OK as are other words begining
of.....
--
Stuart Winsor
Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org
I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
hit "space"
Going back and editing to "of" is ok as long as I move the cursor away
immediately.
It has happened in every instance of the word "of" in this news post,
including when I close the quote mark around it.
I do not have "check as you type" enabled and as far as I am aware it only
happens with "of", "off" is perfectly OK as are other words begining
of.....
--
Stuart Winsor
Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org
Martin Wuerthner
Apr 20, 2012, 4:46:35 AM4/20/12
to
In message <5283476b...@argonet.co.uk>
or you have a third-party utility installed that offers such a feature
globally for all applications. SmartQuotes, for instance, could cause
exactly the effect you describe if you configured it to replace "of "
by "the ".
--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> This is a strange one, going on now for several weeks.
> I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
> to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
> same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
> it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
> same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
> seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
> I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
> on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
> eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
> repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
> hit "space"
Sounds like either Pluto has an abbreviation expansion feature itself
> This is a strange one, going on now for several weeks.
> I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
> to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
> same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
> it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
> same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
> seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
> I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
> on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
> eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
> repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
> hit "space"
or you have a third-party utility installed that offers such a feature
globally for all applications. SmartQuotes, for instance, could cause
exactly the effect you describe if you configured it to replace "of "
by "the ".
--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Williams (News)
Apr 20, 2012, 5:03:54 AM4/20/12
to
In article <18dc4a83...@bach.planiverse.com>,
the user dictionary opens as a text file in ones editor.
The initial section has tab separated lines, the first entry being the
thing to be substituted, and the substitution after the tab.
For example, mine contains the lines:
ro<tab>RISC OS
ukp<tab>GBP
Voip<tab>VoIP
to provide a shortcut for RISC OS, a correction for currency, and a
capitalisation correction for VoIP, amongst other entries.
These entries are followed by a blank line, and then the user additions to
the spell-checker are listed in alphabetical order.
A line there of the form:
of<tab>the
would give exactly the effect Stuart is experiencing.
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> Sounds like either Pluto has an abbreviation expansion feature itself
It does. If one opens the spell-check window and clicks on the Dict button,
> Sounds like either Pluto has an abbreviation expansion feature itself
the user dictionary opens as a text file in ones editor.
The initial section has tab separated lines, the first entry being the
thing to be substituted, and the substitution after the tab.
For example, mine contains the lines:
ro<tab>RISC OS
ukp<tab>GBP
Voip<tab>VoIP
to provide a shortcut for RISC OS, a correction for currency, and a
capitalisation correction for VoIP, amongst other entries.
These entries are followed by a blank line, and then the user additions to
the spell-checker are listed in alphabetical order.
A line there of the form:
of<tab>the
would give exactly the effect Stuart is experiencing.
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Peter Young
Apr 20, 2012, 5:21:57 AM4/20/12
to
On 20 Apr 2012 Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <5283476b...@argonet.co.uk>
> Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> This is a strange one, going on now for several weeks.
>> I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
>> to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
>> same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
>> it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
>> same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
>> seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
>> I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
>> on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
>> eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
>> repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
>> hit "space"
> Sounds like either Pluto has an abbreviation expansion feature itself
> or you have a third-party utility installed that offers such a feature
> globally for all applications. SmartQuotes, for instance, could cause
> exactly the effect you describe if you configured it to replace "of "
> by "the ".
Yes, Pluto does have an abbreviation function, rather like in OPro,
> In message <5283476b...@argonet.co.uk>
> Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> This is a strange one, going on now for several weeks.
>> I was re-reading an email before final sending when I noticed I appeared
>> to have written the word "the" twice. Nothing strange in that, typing the
>> same word twice is not unknown, but it should have been the word "of", so
>> it was duly corrected. However, I began to notice more instances of the
>> same thing happening and began to doubt my sanity; even as I was writing I
>> seemed to be typing "the" instead of "of"
>> I sat there and very carefully typed the letters "o","f" and they appeared
>> on the screen exactly as expected, then I typed a space and before my very
>> eyes the word changed to "the". I could not believe it but it is
>> repeatable every time. I type "of" and the word "the" appears as soon as I
>> hit "space"
> Sounds like either Pluto has an abbreviation expansion feature itself
> or you have a third-party utility installed that offers such a feature
> globally for all applications. SmartQuotes, for instance, could cause
> exactly the effect you describe if you configured it to replace "of "
> by "the ".
and that's about the only thing I seriously miss after migrating to
MPro.
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk
Alan Calder
Apr 20, 2012, 5:50:50 AM4/20/12
to
If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
attention of Pluto users/experts!
Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
I have the problem that a few years ago I decided to password protect three
mailboxes - it seemed a good idea at the time. I thought that I had made
all the passwords identical apart from a 1, 2 or 3 on the end.
Tow of them I managed to recover with no problem but the third has eluded
all my efforts so presumably I must have mistyped the password in some way
wjich I cannot now repeat.
I was hoping that there was some way to get in, some backdoor, and that JD
or someone could help.
Any info or ideas?
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
attention of Pluto users/experts!
Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
I have the problem that a few years ago I decided to password protect three
mailboxes - it seemed a good idea at the time. I thought that I had made
all the passwords identical apart from a 1, 2 or 3 on the end.
Tow of them I managed to recover with no problem but the third has eluded
all my efforts so presumably I must have mistyped the password in some way
wjich I cannot now repeat.
I was hoping that there was some way to get in, some backdoor, and that JD
or someone could help.
Any info or ideas?
Alan
[Snip]
--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Brian Bailey
Apr 20, 2012, 6:06:34 AM4/20/12
to
> If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
> attention of Pluto users/experts!
> Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the time and
my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that Pluto can and
will be developed further.
> I have the problem that a few years ago I decided to password protect
> three mailboxes - it seemed a good idea at the time. I thought that I
> had made all the passwords identical apart from a 1, 2 or 3 on the end.
> Tow of them I managed to recover with no problem but the third has
> eluded all my efforts so presumably I must have mistyped the password in
> some way wjich I cannot now repeat.
> I was hoping that there was some way to get in, some backdoor, and that
> JD or someone could help.
> Any info or ideas?
Russell Hafter News
Apr 20, 2012, 7:35:19 AM4/20/12
to
In article <528350bdcc...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
The following is a posting to the Pluto Mailing List by Paul
Vigay, 27 Dec 2007...
In a dim and distant universe
<4f57b55...@dpmail.co.uk>,
Colin Matthews <cm...@dpmail.co.uk> enlightened us
thusly:
> I have an empty box which is password protected; but I
> have no idea of the password or when I set it, and want
> to get rid of the box. Martin Avison says there's a
> special unlock password : does anyone know what it is?
RESETALLPASSWORDS
Only side-effect is that it removes all passwords, so you
may have to go through any other protected boxes, resetting
them all again.
Paul
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Vigay, 27 Dec 2007...
In a dim and distant universe
<4f57b55...@dpmail.co.uk>,
Colin Matthews <cm...@dpmail.co.uk> enlightened us
thusly:
> I have an empty box which is password protected; but I
> have no idea of the password or when I set it, and want
> to get rid of the box. Martin Avison says there's a
> special unlock password : does anyone know what it is?
RESETALLPASSWORDS
Only side-effect is that it removes all passwords, so you
may have to go through any other protected boxes, resetting
them all again.
Paul
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Alan Calder
Apr 20, 2012, 7:40:05 AM4/20/12
to
In article <5283522e...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey
much indebted!) the problem has been solved.
Yes, I'd love to see Pluto developed firther but somehow I doubt that it
will happen. I am still bowled over by the simple friendliness of the
program whenever I have to help my partner deal with MS Outlook - a truly
horrible and mystifying program! Something simple in Pluto, changing the
From address as an example, is amazingly convoluted in Outlook - probably
it all becomes simple with enough study but WTF!
Cheers
<bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
> > attention of Pluto users/experts!
> > Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
> Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but
> what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the
> time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that
> Pluto can and will be developed further.
Thanks for the response. Thanks to a couple of posters (Dave & Chris, I am
> > If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
> > attention of Pluto users/experts!
> > Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
> Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but
> what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the
> time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that
> Pluto can and will be developed further.
much indebted!) the problem has been solved.
Yes, I'd love to see Pluto developed firther but somehow I doubt that it
will happen. I am still bowled over by the simple friendliness of the
program whenever I have to help my partner deal with MS Outlook - a truly
horrible and mystifying program! Something simple in Pluto, changing the
From address as an example, is amazingly convoluted in Outlook - probably
it all becomes simple with enough study but WTF!
Cheers
Stuart
Apr 20, 2012, 7:56:36 AM4/20/12
to
In article <52834c71...@tiscali.co.uk>,
How on earth that got there I cannot imagine!
It has now been removed and as far I can see I no longer have a problem
with of.
Many, many thanks to all.
John Williams (News) <UCE...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> A line there of the form:
> of<tab>the
> would give exactly the effect Stuart is experiencing.
Well done that man!
> A line there of the form:
> of<tab>the
> would give exactly the effect Stuart is experiencing.
How on earth that got there I cannot imagine!
It has now been removed and as far I can see I no longer have a problem
with of.
Many, many thanks to all.
Stuart
Apr 20, 2012, 7:58:43 AM4/20/12
to
> Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but what
> the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the time and
> my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that Pluto can and
> will be developed further.
Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
> the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the time and
> my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that Pluto can and
> will be developed further.
Brian Bailey
Apr 20, 2012, 9:24:57 AM4/20/12
to
> > Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but
> > what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the
> > time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that
> > Pluto can and will be developed further.
> Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
M Harding
Apr 20, 2012, 12:01:36 PM4/20/12
to
In article <52835c73...@argonet.co.uk>,
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5283522e...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan,
> > but what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got
> > diverted at the time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I
> > am ever hopeful that Pluto can and will be developed further.
> Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
Ditto. I rely on that program.
> In article <5283522e...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan,
> > but what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got
> > diverted at the time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I
> > am ever hopeful that Pluto can and will be developed further.
> Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
Dave Symes
Apr 20, 2012, 10:26:52 AM4/20/12
to
In article <52835a4e...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
[Snippy password]
> Only side-effect is that it removes all passwords, so you
> may have to go through any other protected boxes, resetting
> them all again.
Why did you have to openly post the damn fix password, when those of us
with sense posted it to Alan privately.
Perhaps you'd like to post your Pin numbers etc online as well.
GD
--
Dave Triffid
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
[Snippy password]
> Only side-effect is that it removes all passwords, so you
> may have to go through any other protected boxes, resetting
> them all again.
with sense posted it to Alan privately.
Perhaps you'd like to post your Pin numbers etc online as well.
GD
--
Dave Triffid
Alan Calder
Apr 20, 2012, 1:05:11 PM4/20/12
to
Dave Symes
Apr 20, 2012, 1:10:28 PM4/20/12
to
In article <528372ae...@mdharding.org.uk>,
Indeedy... Granted it was quite some time ago when I last communicated
with Jonathan, but at that time he had no interest in doing anything more
with Pluto.
Maybe if enough lolly is on the table he might or allow someone elso to do
it.
Anyway, count me in on the prepared to pay for developments.
Dave
Perhaps this ought to be on the Pluto mailing list.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
with Jonathan, but at that time he had no interest in doing anything more
with Pluto.
Maybe if enough lolly is on the table he might or allow someone elso to do
it.
Anyway, count me in on the prepared to pay for developments.
Dave
Perhaps this ought to be on the Pluto mailing list.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 20, 2012, 2:00:41 PM4/20/12
to
In article <5283788218...@o2.co.uk>,
Yup. It's one of those apps which keeps me using my RPC for real - even
although I have a couple of PCs.
One thing that would be nice would be to increase the size of posts it
will cope with. I doubt many realised digital pics would become so common.
--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
although I have a couple of PCs.
One thing that would be nice would be to increase the size of posts it
will cope with. I doubt many realised digital pics would become so common.
--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
spampling
Apr 20, 2012, 2:39:30 PM4/20/12
to
In article <528350bdcc...@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
> Any info or ideas?
Nearest users I know of are Stuart (elsewhere in this thread) and myself.
I haven't measured the trip distance but Stuart might be fractionally
closer.
He lives in Green Lane district of Coventry (unless he moved)
Contact via the sourceforge email and then a chat might produce a result.
--
Steve Pampling
<alan_...@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
> attention of Pluto users/experts!
> Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
[Snip]
> If I might hijack this thread a bit but hopefully it's grabbed the
> attention of Pluto users/experts!
> Has anyone been successful in contacting Jonathan Duddington recently?
> Any info or ideas?
Nearest users I know of are Stuart (elsewhere in this thread) and myself.
I haven't measured the trip distance but Stuart might be fractionally
closer.
He lives in Green Lane district of Coventry (unless he moved)
Contact via the sourceforge email and then a chat might produce a result.
--
Steve Pampling
spampling
Apr 20, 2012, 2:41:18 PM4/20/12
to
> In article <5283522e...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey
> <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but
> > what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the
> > time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that
> > Pluto can and will be developed further.
> Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
I think he largely lost interest in the RISC OS scene around the start of
> <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Some weeks ago Jim Nagel told me that he had spoken to Jonathan, but
> > what the subsequent outcome was I have no idea, I got diverted at the
> > time and my attention was elsewhere. However, I am ever hopeful that
> > Pluto can and will be developed further.
> Well I'd cheerfully stump up 50 quid or so for improvements.
the Iyonix era.
Only a few queries and my offer of testing of the Iyonix compatible version
delayed the departure.
--
Steve Pampling
Stuart
Apr 20, 2012, 3:11:35 PM4/20/12
to
In article <528378f...@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> Indeedy... Granted it was quite some time ago when I last communicated
> with Jonathan, but at that time he had no interest in doing anything more
> with Pluto.
> Maybe if enough lolly is on the table he might or allow someone elso to
> do it.
They say everyone has his price.
> Indeedy... Granted it was quite some time ago when I last communicated
> with Jonathan, but at that time he had no interest in doing anything more
> with Pluto.
> Maybe if enough lolly is on the table he might or allow someone elso to
> do it.
Stuart
Apr 20, 2012, 4:18:31 PM4/20/12
to
In article <5283812470...@btinternet.com>,
£1000
spampling <spam....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Nearest users I know of are Stuart (elsewhere in this thread) and myself.
> I haven't measured the trip distance but Stuart might be fractionally
> closer.
> He lives in Green Lane district of Coventry (unless he moved)
> Contact via the sourceforge email and then a chat might produce a result.
I don't think I would bother him unless I had firm promises of at least
> Nearest users I know of are Stuart (elsewhere in this thread) and myself.
> I haven't measured the trip distance but Stuart might be fractionally
> closer.
> He lives in Green Lane district of Coventry (unless he moved)
> Contact via the sourceforge email and then a chat might produce a result.
£1000
Brian Bailey
Apr 21, 2012, 2:40:52 AM4/21/12
to
[snip]
> I don't think I would bother him unless I had firm promises of at least
> £1000
As Pluto is very much my preferred way of working I should be glad to
exceed your suggested £50 if that got results re further development. RISC
OS is my preferred *working* platform and so is Pluto.
> I don't think I would bother him unless I had firm promises of at least
> £1000
exceed your suggested £50 if that got results re further development. RISC
OS is my preferred *working* platform and so is Pluto.
Message has been deleted
Stuart
Apr 21, 2012, 10:25:13 AM4/21/12
to
In article <5283ea...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <5283c32f...@argonet.co.uk>,
> I would pay to see the base64 problem fixed for i/c email but £50 is an
> awful lot of money to me. I'd have to have think about it for that much
> money.
Yes I fully understand, £50 was a figure I /think/ I could currently
scrape together without too much impact on other things. I'm certainly not
suggesting that everyone has to put up £50.
I've not even made a formal request to the groups to see how many would be
prepared to cough up some cash.
> I purchased Messenger pro before christmas but I must admit I'm struggling
> with it to the extent that I only use it for emails I can't read in Pluto.
> Bob.
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <5283c32f...@argonet.co.uk>,
> awful lot of money to me. I'd have to have think about it for that much
> money.
Yes I fully understand, £50 was a figure I /think/ I could currently
scrape together without too much impact on other things. I'm certainly not
suggesting that everyone has to put up £50.
I've not even made a formal request to the groups to see how many would be
prepared to cough up some cash.
> I purchased Messenger pro before christmas but I must admit I'm struggling
> with it to the extent that I only use it for emails I can't read in Pluto.
> Bob.
Alan Calder
Apr 21, 2012, 12:00:40 PM4/21/12
to
In article <5283edb2...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Yes I fully understand, £50 was a figure I /think/ I could currently
> scrape together without too much impact on other things. I'm certainly
> not suggesting that everyone has to put up £50.
> I've not even made a formal request to the groups to see how many would
> be prepared to cough up some cash.
I'd happily start at £100 if the project actually became a reality.
Alan
hope it will actually happen if the money is requested - I remember what
happened with Firefox :-(
<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Yes I fully understand, £50 was a figure I /think/ I could currently
> scrape together without too much impact on other things. I'm certainly
> not suggesting that everyone has to put up £50.
> I've not even made a formal request to the groups to see how many would
> be prepared to cough up some cash.
Alan
hope it will actually happen if the money is requested - I remember what
happened with Firefox :-(
Chris Newman
Apr 21, 2012, 12:13:13 PM4/21/12
to
--
Chris Newman
Brian Bailey
Apr 22, 2012, 2:13:51 AM4/22/12
to
> > > > I don't think I would bother him unless I had firm promises of at
> > > > least £1000
> > > As Pluto is very much my preferred way of working I should be glad
> > > to exceed your suggested £50 if that got results re further
> > > development. RISC OS is my preferred *working* platform and so is
> > > Pluto.
> > I would pay to see the base64 problem fixed for i/c email but £50 is
> > an awful lot of money to me. I'd have to have think about it for that
> > much money.
> Yes I fully understand, £50 was a figure I /think/ I could currently
> scrape together without too much impact on other things. I'm certainly
> not suggesting that everyone has to put up £50.
> I've not even made a formal request to the groups to see how many would
> be prepared to cough up some cash.
was set up for. If it is it would be very sad if the proposed upgrade of
Pluto died a death without even starting.
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 4:01:29 AM4/22/12
to
In message <5284448c...@argonet.co.uk>
No the Bounty scheme is for development of the OS and there are plenty
of things there that need developing without diverting any bounty
money to applications.
If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has
the time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here
and there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
--
Chris Hughes
Come to the Wakefield Show - 28th April 2012
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk
of things there that need developing without diverting any bounty
money to applications.
If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has
the time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here
and there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
--
Chris Hughes
Come to the Wakefield Show - 28th April 2012
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 5:40:13 AM4/22/12
to
[Snip - Pluto Upgrades Wanted]
Years have passed and the only feedback we seem to get is that the
original programmer has no intention of providing upgrades. The only
solution seems to be for someone else to obtain the source code and work
on it. The first step would be to find out whether JD would be prepared
to give it up to someone else to be worked on and, if so, what his terms
are.
Then perhaps we could then establish Crowd Source Funding to:
* recompense JD if that's what he wants
and/or
* pay someone to work on it.
(I think it is unlikely a developer will agree to do this until they have
been able to look at the source code.)
In the meantime: is there a web page somewhere with a wish list of what
needs doing to Pluto?
2p:
* Bigger email/attachment handling
* Eliminate 'references corrupted' undocumented feature
* Auto backup of Boxes list which can be reinstated after a crash which
loses all the names and options. (That's happened to me three times now)
* Expansion of !help to include things such as the password to reset all
passwords (which I will not repeat here!?!)
* Storage of all writable files in Choices, or elsewhere. (i.e. not in
app dir)
* Handling of base64
Please add more.
--
Tim Hill
..............................................................
www.timil.com
... "God shall be my hope, my stay, my guide, and lantern to my feet" Henry VI, Act ii, Sc.3
charles
Apr 22, 2012, 5:50:26 AM4/22/12
to
In article <27674e84...@o2.co.uk>,
but £50 from a number, say 100, of people is not insulting.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Brian Bailey
Apr 22, 2012, 5:59:05 AM4/22/12
to
[snip]
> > I wonder if this is just the kind of project that the ROOL Bounty
> > scheme was set up for. If it is it would be very sad if the proposed
> > upgrade of Pluto died a death without even starting.
> No the Bounty scheme is for development of the OS and there are plenty
> of things there that need developing without diverting any bounty money
> to applications.
> If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
> probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
> time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
> there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed, until! 8-)
> > I wonder if this is just the kind of project that the ROOL Bounty
> > scheme was set up for. If it is it would be very sad if the proposed
> > upgrade of Pluto died a death without even starting.
> No the Bounty scheme is for development of the OS and there are plenty
> of things there that need developing without diverting any bounty money
> to applications.
> If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
> probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
> time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
> there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
Alan Wrigley
Apr 22, 2012, 6:09:45 AM4/22/12
to
Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
> > probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
> > time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
> > there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
>
> Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed, until! 8-)
I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> > If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
> > probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
> > time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
> > there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
>
> Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed, until! 8-)
prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
Brian Bailey
Apr 22, 2012, 6:32:39 AM4/22/12
to
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
to do that speaks volumes.
Doug Webb
Apr 22, 2012, 7:00:24 AM4/22/12
to
In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
It may speak volumes but there does come a point where reality needs
to kick in just look at the situation with Impression where there
still seems people holding out for an update to that programme.
If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
programme.
Doug
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.19.
to kick in just look at the situation with Impression where there
still seems people holding out for an update to that programme.
If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
programme.
Doug
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.19.
Alan Wrigley
Apr 22, 2012, 7:17:15 AM4/22/12
to
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> >> prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> >> up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
>
> > Without going into detail, Alan. The fact that people are quite prepared
> > to do that speaks volumes.
>
> It may speak volumes but there does come a point where reality needs
> to kick in just look at the situation with Impression where there
> still seems people holding out for an update to that programme.
>
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
A request which I'm sure R-Comp would be very happy to hear. From my own
> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> >> prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> >> up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
>
> > Without going into detail, Alan. The fact that people are quite prepared
> > to do that speaks volumes.
>
> It may speak volumes but there does come a point where reality needs
> to kick in just look at the situation with Impression where there
> still seems people holding out for an update to that programme.
>
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
point of view, it would make life easier, and development time quicker, if
Hermes didn't have to talk to email clients that work in different ways.
I'm not knocking Pluto as I've never used it, just curious as to why it
continues to defy reality.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 7:21:01 AM4/22/12
to
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm not knocking Pluto as I've never used it, just curious as to why it
> continues to defy reality.
Perhaps you should have used it, then, if only for a time long enough to
> I'm not knocking Pluto as I've never used it, just curious as to why it
> continues to defy reality.
appreciate its features.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 7:22:33 AM4/22/12
to
In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>, Doug Webb
<doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would be
of no use to me.
Ifs are often big ifs.
--
from Tim Hill of timil.com who . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@
... "He that filches from me my good name, robs me of that which not enriches him, but makes me poor indeed" Othello, Act iii, Sc.3
<doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
of no use to me.
Ifs are often big ifs.
--
from Tim Hill of timil.com who . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@
... "He that filches from me my good name, robs me of that which not enriches him, but makes me poor indeed" Othello, Act iii, Sc.3
Brian Jordan
Apr 22, 2012, 7:38:59 AM4/22/12
to
[Snip]
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
start and in no particular order:
I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
articles".
It may well be that these things are there somewhere but I can't find
them.
Brian
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
start and in no particular order:
I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
articles".
It may well be that these things are there somewhere but I can't find
them.
Brian
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
Russell Hafter News
Apr 22, 2012, 7:32:12 AM4/22/12
to
In article
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley
invest the money to improve a piece of software that we have
used for a very long time and are deeply familiar with,
rather than have to go through a very steep learning curve
for something else.
Having also been forced to try some Windows e-mail programs,
all of which work in a completely different (and extremely
frustrating) way (and I am sure that I am not the only one
in this situation), we simply do not wish to have to learn
two different pieces of software. (Yes, I know that I could
buy Mess Pro for both RISC OS and Windows and that in that
situation a lot of the learning would spread over both
machines, but still...)
I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS, but from a quick
read of the manual for the Windows version, it, like every
non RISC OS e-mail program it seems to insist on you having
an Inbox, an Outbox and a Sentbox. And, if you are not
careful, it insists on doing this for every e-mail address
you have.
I stress that this impression is based on a quick skim of
the Windows Manual, and I may be wrong and maybe the RO
version does not have these concepts, which to me (though I
assume not to others, or they would not be so ubiquitous)
are completely and und utterly barking mad.
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley
<spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that
> people would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when
> they could get the much more up-to-date (and currently
> supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
I would guess that for at least some of us we would rather
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that
> people would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when
> they could get the much more up-to-date (and currently
> supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
invest the money to improve a piece of software that we have
used for a very long time and are deeply familiar with,
rather than have to go through a very steep learning curve
for something else.
Having also been forced to try some Windows e-mail programs,
all of which work in a completely different (and extremely
frustrating) way (and I am sure that I am not the only one
in this situation), we simply do not wish to have to learn
two different pieces of software. (Yes, I know that I could
buy Mess Pro for both RISC OS and Windows and that in that
situation a lot of the learning would spread over both
machines, but still...)
I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS, but from a quick
read of the manual for the Windows version, it, like every
non RISC OS e-mail program it seems to insist on you having
an Inbox, an Outbox and a Sentbox. And, if you are not
careful, it insists on doing this for every e-mail address
you have.
I stress that this impression is based on a quick skim of
the Windows Manual, and I may be wrong and maybe the RO
version does not have these concepts, which to me (though I
assume not to others, or they would not be so ubiquitous)
are completely and und utterly barking mad.
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 7:47:41 AM4/22/12
to
In article <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>, Brian Jordan
<brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto
> although it is eminently sensible to use a supported application
> because, for a start and in no particular order:
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes. It doesn't support
> the ability to run a mailing list. There doesn't seem to be an
> equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate articles".
You have just given me two more reasons not to 'upgrade'.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
... "If we do meet again, why, we shall smile; if not,why then this parting was well made" Jul Caesar, Act v, Sc.1
<brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto
> although it is eminently sensible to use a supported application
> because, for a start and in no particular order:
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes. It doesn't support
> the ability to run a mailing list. There doesn't seem to be an
> equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate articles".
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
... "If we do meet again, why, we shall smile; if not,why then this parting was well made" Jul Caesar, Act v, Sc.1
Steve Fryatt
Apr 22, 2012, 8:22:31 AM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr, Brian Jordan wrote in message
<52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>:
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
> start and in no particular order:
>
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're a
work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
gets too big.
M-Pro doesn't have this undesirable 'feature', so you just transfer messages
into Archive Folders and leave them there out of the way.
> It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
That's probably a good thing, if Archive on Line is representative of
Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
> articles".
Isn't that buried somewhere in Group Management or the iconbar menu?
It's a function of the message database and not Messenger: because Messenger
can use several different databases (MsgServe for local storage like Pluto;
RemoteNB for an IMAP connection) it won't always be present.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
<52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>:
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
> start and in no particular order:
>
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
gets too big.
M-Pro doesn't have this undesirable 'feature', so you just transfer messages
into Archive Folders and leave them there out of the way.
> It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
> articles".
It's a function of the message database and not Messenger: because Messenger
can use several different databases (MsgServe for local storage like Pluto;
RemoteNB for an IMAP connection) it won't always be present.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
Doug Webb
Apr 22, 2012, 8:39:42 AM4/22/12
to
In message <528460...@invalid.org.uk>
see if this feature can be replicated and any others that are needed.
If people don't ask then you don't know what is possible.
I agree the best for some would be !Pluto to have a development road
map but if that isn't possible then we should all be open to seeing
other ways of achieving things.
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>, Doug Webb
> <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> [Snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would be
> of no use to me.
So as I said speak to the currently supported program developer and
> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>, Doug Webb
> <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> [Snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would be
> of no use to me.
see if this feature can be replicated and any others that are needed.
If people don't ask then you don't know what is possible.
I agree the best for some would be !Pluto to have a development road
map but if that isn't possible then we should all be open to seeing
other ways of achieving things.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 8:44:40 AM4/22/12
to
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're
> a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
> gets too big.
Yes, but having rarely accessed messages in external folders also means that
> Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're
> a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
> gets too big.
they can be backed up much less often, so eg whereas back when I used Pluto
I'd backup the main app every day, I only backed up external boxes when I
migrated a set of messages into them.
You can also have backup external boxes on eg CDs, which makes it easier to
be sure that they'll survive a disk crash.
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 8:57:10 AM4/22/12
to
In message <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>
> It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
No you can't run a mailing list service, but it does handle mailing
lists.
> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
> articles".
Not sure about this one, but I believe its does this automatically.
Brian Jordan <brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,
> Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
> start and in no particular order:
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,
> Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
> start and in no particular order:
> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
lists.
> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
> articles".
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 8:59:52 AM4/22/12
to
In message <mpro.m2vsqg...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Messenger Pro, i.e. export the messages in different way and different
formats if you want, using a croos platform standard.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
<jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're
>> a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
>> gets too big.
> Yes, but having rarely accessed messages in external folders also means that
> they can be backed up much less often, so eg whereas back when I used Pluto
> I'd backup the main app every day, I only backed up external boxes when I
> migrated a set of messages into them.
> You can also have backup external boxes on eg CDs, which makes it easier to
> be sure that they'll survive a disk crash.
As I have said in another post you can do this if you want to in
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're
>> a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
>> gets too big.
> Yes, but having rarely accessed messages in external folders also means that
> they can be backed up much less often, so eg whereas back when I used Pluto
> I'd backup the main app every day, I only backed up external boxes when I
> migrated a set of messages into them.
> You can also have backup external boxes on eg CDs, which makes it easier to
> be sure that they'll survive a disk crash.
Messenger Pro, i.e. export the messages in different way and different
formats if you want, using a croos platform standard.
John Williams (News)
Apr 22, 2012, 9:08:30 AM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
e-mails/postings.
If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
John
.
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> Why are they needed?
It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> Why are they needed?
e-mails/postings.
If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
John
.
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 9:07:45 AM4/22/12
to
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS
Nor I.
> I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS
> but from a quick read of the manual for the Windows version, it, like
> every non RISC OS e-mail program it seems to insist on you having an
> Inbox, an Outbox and a Sentbox.
directed elsewhere.
Pluto had an outbound message queue, which is virtually the same as MP's
Outbox, especially if (like me) you don't have MP automatically send
whatever is in the Outbox - things are sent when I decide to send them,
giving me a few minutes (or more if I forget) time to reconsider my words.
Pluto did in my opinion handle "log copies of sent messages" better than MP
does - MP mainly puts those in the Sent Mail and Sent News folders (at least
it seems to for original posts but not always for replies which can stay in
the folder they were written in). I have filters set up which take effect
when I open the Sent Mail folder, which find the 'log copies' and move them
to the folders where the incoming public copies of them will be put.
Pluto had a useful (well, I liked it) feature which would delete the log
copy of an outbound mail when the publically distributed copy arrived
(useful for maillists to see whether a sent message had got to the server).
With MP I have to manually delete the copies of what I sent. I use filters
to set the colours of outbound messages one way, and those of inbound copies
of what I wrote another way, so that both types show up differently from
msgs written by other people.
> And, if you are not careful, it insists on doing this for every e-mail
> address you have.
and only one each of Inbox, Outbox, Sent Mail. However that's using an
offline mailhandling mode (POP3 collection, deletion from server). It's
probably different if you use IMAP where the folder structure in MP will
match that of your mail provider's IMAP server.
Other things I miss from Pluto days:
- good handling of entire threads in an atomic manner
- versatile control of thread display, ie which threads in a MP
group sort highest in the display, and indeed what order subthreads
are shown in within a specific thread
- versatile control of box sorting orders and column selection, and
ability to change a the way a set of messages is being displayed
to one of umpteen different display types
- ability to unlink a subthread from a thread (eg when someone has
started a new thread by replying to part of an old one)
- ability to select a set of messages, or those which are results of
a search, and have them open in a new viewer as if they were the
contents of a separate virtual box. One can do that recursively
to get subsets of subsets
- two different types of 'flag' on messages (MP has one)
Things Pluto users are used to which MP doesn't do:
- having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single box - MP
routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
- having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a single box - MP
routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
- these two things take a lot of getting used to if you're used
to seeing eg all your RO related mail & news traffic in one
place. With MP you might be able to do this by intercepting
incoming mail & news and moving them from the normal maillist
and newsgroup groups into a single local folder. But then
you'd lose the attributes of the maillist & newsgroup folders
on the moved items.
I'm sure more will occur to me.
I made the transition to MP in 2006 when I had to start using a laptop and
although for a while I ran !Pluto under VRPC as well as MP, I thought it
would be better to get used to a decent Windows client which, if I ever
decide to start using linux, is also supported there. Moving from Windows
to linux would be much easier if I need to, if I already know my way around
the email & news client, and browser (I use Firefox).
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 9:12:48 AM4/22/12
to
Yes, so why say it again?
MP supports export too; it's not the same thing.
In Pluto when you double-click an external box (it's packaged like an app in
a !xxxx folder) it IMMEDIATELY appears in the Boxes list, and once it is
there it acts entirely like a normal box. IIRC Pluto lets you have up to 4
external boxes open in the main app at any one time. You can close any or
all of them when you want and open others. It's an elegant solution.
It'd be like having a MP Group suddenly appear in the All Groups list. In
MP you'd need to import the previously exported items (slow), then they'd be
part of the main database again. If you made changes you'd have to manually
cope with creating new exports.
MP supports export too; it's not the same thing.
In Pluto when you double-click an external box (it's packaged like an app in
a !xxxx folder) it IMMEDIATELY appears in the Boxes list, and once it is
there it acts entirely like a normal box. IIRC Pluto lets you have up to 4
external boxes open in the main app at any one time. You can close any or
all of them when you want and open others. It's an elegant solution.
It'd be like having a MP Group suddenly appear in the All Groups list. In
MP you'd need to import the previously exported items (slow), then they'd be
part of the main database again. If you made changes you'd have to manually
cope with creating new exports.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 9:15:50 AM4/22/12
to
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would be of
> no use to me.
Pluto's maillist server support is very basic. Many mail providers will
> A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would be of
> no use to me.
also let you run similar basic maillist servers. Why would you not do that
- and then at least the maillist operates when your copy of !Pluto isn't
running.
And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers - yahoo,
google, freelists, ...
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 9:16:10 AM4/22/12
to
In article <92df678452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>, Doug Webb
have been right and wouldn't have written that.
I was told there are no plans to implement the hosting of mailing lists
in MPro.
> I agree the best for some would be !Pluto to have a development road
> map but if that isn't possible then we should all be open to seeing
> other ways of achieving things.
I do wish that things other than roads didn't have road maps, but I
concur.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "The elements be kind to thee, and make thy spirits all of comfort: fare thee well !" Ant & Cleo, Act iii, Sc.2
<doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> So as I said speak to the currently supported program developer and
> see if this feature can be replicated and any others that are needed.
> If people don't ask then you don't know what is possible.
And if you had assumed the opposite of what you have assumed, you would
> So as I said speak to the currently supported program developer and
> see if this feature can be replicated and any others that are needed.
> If people don't ask then you don't know what is possible.
have been right and wouldn't have written that.
I was told there are no plans to implement the hosting of mailing lists
in MPro.
> I agree the best for some would be !Pluto to have a development road
> map but if that isn't possible then we should all be open to seeing
> other ways of achieving things.
concur.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "The elements be kind to thee, and make thy spirits all of comfort: fare thee well !" Ant & Cleo, Act iii, Sc.2
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 9:26:37 AM4/22/12
to
[Snip]
> > It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
> That's probably a good thing, if Archive on Line is representative of
> Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
No software is able to improve the content of its underlying data. ;-)
Rather than for running an always-on mailing list server, I use the
facility so that people can automatically subscribe to newsletters which
are sent out from here. It's not for discussions.
Being able to have links on the web of the form of
mailto:newsl...@invalid.org.uk?subject=SIGNON
is much easier than writing a PHP script or BASIC program to do it for
me, though I would have to if I switched to MPro.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
> > It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
> That's probably a good thing, if Archive on Line is representative of
> Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
Rather than for running an always-on mailing list server, I use the
facility so that people can automatically subscribe to newsletters which
are sent out from here. It's not for discussions.
Being able to have links on the web of the form of
mailto:newsl...@invalid.org.uk?subject=SIGNON
is much easier than writing a PHP script or BASIC program to do it for
me, though I would have to if I switched to MPro.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 9:30:48 AM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2vu6e...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
> And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers - yahoo,
> google, freelists, ...
Of course there are and they all mean trusting your email addy to them. I
have some subscribers to one list who trust me but not the likes of
Google. As I mention elsewhere, I use only the simple side of this
feature set anyway: capturing distribution list addresses with
subject=SIGNON.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "Love's gentle spring doth always fresh remain" Venus & Adonis
Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> > A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would
> > be of no use to me.
> Pluto's maillist server support is very basic. Many mail providers
> will also let you run similar basic maillist servers. Why would you
> not do that - and then at least the maillist operates when your copy of
> !Pluto isn't running.
This doesn't suit my situation.
> > A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would
> > be of no use to me.
> Pluto's maillist server support is very basic. Many mail providers
> will also let you run similar basic maillist servers. Why would you
> not do that - and then at least the maillist operates when your copy of
> !Pluto isn't running.
> And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers - yahoo,
> google, freelists, ...
have some subscribers to one list who trust me but not the likes of
Google. As I mention elsewhere, I use only the simple side of this
feature set anyway: capturing distribution list addresses with
subject=SIGNON.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "Love's gentle spring doth always fresh remain" Venus & Adonis
Steve Fryatt
Apr 22, 2012, 9:31:34 AM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
<52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
> In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>
> > Why are they needed?
>
> It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> e-mails/postings.
>
> If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
> much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's Archive
folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
<52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
> In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>
> > Why are they needed?
>
> It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> e-mails/postings.
>
> If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
> much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
Dave Symes
Apr 22, 2012, 9:38:00 AM4/22/12
to
In article
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
practical, but that's all been discussed before...
Occasionally one reads of a person who did dump Pluto in favour of Mess
and wishes they hadn't.
More and more companies I deal with are using an html version of their
mails as a container for a Base64 document within, and this requires some
additional work to get at them... And sometimes, nothing on RO will do the
stuff and they have to be moved to Windows to open up.
A while back I was contemplating MessPro for RO, but unfortunately (for
them) R-Comp won't do demo versions, so that closed down that thought.
Back in the days, Jonathan had a 30 day time bombed version of Pluto that
could be tried out.
These days, unless I can do a hands on of any apps I just won't part with
the lolly.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 10:10:16 AM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2vuwk04...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
'box/group' of their own, or are they redistributed to the boxes/groups
they came from?
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "If I must die, I will encounter darkness as a bride, and hug it in mine arms" M for M, Act iii, Ac.1
<ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
> > In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> >
> > > Why are they needed?
> >
> > It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> > e-mails/postings.
> >
> > If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can
> > be much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by
> > keyword.
> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
...and when you re-import the folders, do they stay together in a
> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
> > In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
> > Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> >
> > > Why are they needed?
> >
> > It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> > e-mails/postings.
> >
> > If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can
> > be much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by
> > keyword.
> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
'box/group' of their own, or are they redistributed to the boxes/groups
they came from?
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Apr 22, 2012, 10:18:32 AM4/22/12
to
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <mpro.m2vu6e...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
>Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> > A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would
>> > be of no use to me.
>
>> Pluto's maillist server support is very basic. Many mail providers
>> will also let you run similar basic maillist servers. Why would you
>> not do that - and then at least the maillist operates when your copy of
>> !Pluto isn't running.
>
> This doesn't suit my situation.
Frankly, I don't see why. If a mail provider does it, it would give you the
>In article <mpro.m2vu6e...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
>Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> > A currently supported program which doesn't host mailing lists would
>> > be of no use to me.
>
>> Pluto's maillist server support is very basic. Many mail providers
>> will also let you run similar basic maillist servers. Why would you
>> not do that - and then at least the maillist operates when your copy of
>> !Pluto isn't running.
>
> This doesn't suit my situation.
same service as you have now. You tell people the signon address, they
signon. You send your newsletters to the list, they get distributed.
What's not to like?
>> And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers - yahoo,
>> google, freelists, ...
>
> Of course there are and they all mean trusting your email addy to them. I
> have some subscribers to one list who trust me but not the likes of
> Google.
eg from gmail, as well as any they feel secretive about, and let the public
hosters know the free address.
On the other hand, your mail provider already knows the email addresses of
everyone you communicate with, because they're in the headers of mails
passing to and from you. And their anti-spam filters will have read them.
> As I mention elsewhere, I use only the simple side of this feature
> set anyway: capturing distribution list addresses with subject=SIGNON.
particular email client.
For example, one of MP (for Windows etc)'s nicer features which I haven't
yet used except for experiments is that as mail is debatched filters can do
things like write the email to an external file. I plan to use this to
strip huge amounts of dross out of some emails I get, at some point. I can
run programs which respond to the external file getting data put into it,
then creates a new file somewhere else. One of MP's 'account' types (apart
from POP3, NNTP, IMAP, SMTP) is 'file', and it will fetch the contents of a
file (much as !Pluto debatches from files created by other apps). So I can
automate simplification of some incoming mails.
You could use such a feature to collect subscribe request emails in an
external file, run a program to filter out the actual addresses, and add
them to another file. That other file could be the distibution list
definition. No need for a server at all.
Message has been deleted
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 10:31:34 AM4/22/12
to
In message <528470...@invalid.org.uk>
put them in
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <mpro.m2vuwk04...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
>> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
>>> In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
>>> Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>>>
>>>> Why are they needed?
>>>
>>> It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
>>> e-mails/postings.
>>>
>>> If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can
>>> be much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by
>>> keyword.
>> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
>> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
> ...and when you re-import the folders, do they stay together in a
> 'box/group' of their own, or are they redistributed to the boxes/groups
> they came from?
You don't need to reimport them! and they stay as whatever folder you
> In article <mpro.m2vuwk04...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
>> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
>>> In article <mpro.m2vrph03...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
>>> Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>>>
>>>> Why are they needed?
>>>
>>> It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
>>> e-mails/postings.
>>>
>>> If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can
>>> be much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by
>>> keyword.
>> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
>> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
> ...and when you re-import the folders, do they stay together in a
> 'box/group' of their own, or are they redistributed to the boxes/groups
> they came from?
put them in
Tim Hill
Apr 22, 2012, 10:40:24 AM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2vx2w...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
> >> And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers -
> >> yahoo, google, freelists, ...
> >
> > Of course there are and they all mean trusting your email addy to
> > them. I have some subscribers to one list who trust me but not the
> > likes of Google.
> I understand that, up to a point.
Exactly. And if you want customers...
> But anyone can have a free email
> address eg from gmail, as well as any they feel secretive about, and
> let the public hosters know the free address.
Yes. I know that. And you know that. There's no convincing some people!
You know the type who think facebook is too hard to learn or Twitter too
difficult to bother with. "I am only one person and only want one email
address which I want to be kept a secret as far as possible".
> On the other hand, your mail provider already knows the email addresses
> of everyone you communicate with, because they're in the headers of
> mails passing to and from you. And their anti-spam filters will have
> read them.
I know. Frustrating, isn't it?
> > As I mention elsewhere, I use only the simple side of this feature
> > set anyway: capturing distribution list addresses with subject=SIGNON.
> Yes, but it could be done elsewhere. It's NOT a reason not to use a
> particular email client.
[Snip]
It is, because I have it all set up one way and don't have the time to
change it all (including numerous web pages) to the other way or write
scripts, filters and God knows what to get something working which works
already. I would also have to bear in mind the DPA would require me to
ask everyone about 'giving' their email addresses to the likes of Google.
The thing about the Pluto Vs Mpro debate is that there are features in
Pluto which are not in MPro but AFAICT, not the other way around as a few
bugs/missing features have easy work-arounds and until MPro offers the
same feature-set and more besides it isn't an upgrade, more a 'sidegrade'
in a similar was to some of ROL's contributions to the OS.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
... "I can no other answer make, but, thanks, and thanks" Twelfth N, Act iii, Sc.3
Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> >In article <mpro.m2vu6e...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
> >Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
> >wrote:
> >> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> >
[Snip]
> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> >In article <mpro.m2vu6e...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
> >Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
> >wrote:
> >> Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> And of course there's any number of hosted maillist providers -
> >> yahoo, google, freelists, ...
> >
> > Of course there are and they all mean trusting your email addy to
> > them. I have some subscribers to one list who trust me but not the
> > likes of Google.
> I understand that, up to a point.
> But anyone can have a free email
> address eg from gmail, as well as any they feel secretive about, and
> let the public hosters know the free address.
You know the type who think facebook is too hard to learn or Twitter too
difficult to bother with. "I am only one person and only want one email
address which I want to be kept a secret as far as possible".
> On the other hand, your mail provider already knows the email addresses
> of everyone you communicate with, because they're in the headers of
> mails passing to and from you. And their anti-spam filters will have
> read them.
> > As I mention elsewhere, I use only the simple side of this feature
> > set anyway: capturing distribution list addresses with subject=SIGNON.
> Yes, but it could be done elsewhere. It's NOT a reason not to use a
> particular email client.
It is, because I have it all set up one way and don't have the time to
change it all (including numerous web pages) to the other way or write
scripts, filters and God knows what to get something working which works
already. I would also have to bear in mind the DPA would require me to
ask everyone about 'giving' their email addresses to the likes of Google.
The thing about the Pluto Vs Mpro debate is that there are features in
Pluto which are not in MPro but AFAICT, not the other way around as a few
bugs/missing features have easy work-arounds and until MPro offers the
same feature-set and more besides it isn't an upgrade, more a 'sidegrade'
in a similar was to some of ROL's contributions to the OS.
--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
M Harding
Apr 22, 2012, 10:49:33 AM4/22/12
to
In article
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going
> > > to have probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the
> > > developer now has the time or interest (and equipment) to do
> > > it. Waving £50 around here and there will not help much and
> > > might even insult the developer.
> >
> > Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed,
> > until! 8-)
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people
> would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the
> much more up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for
> £40.
I have a copy of MPro, although it's probably out of date by now. But
<gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going
> > > to have probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the
> > > developer now has the time or interest (and equipment) to do
> > > it. Waving £50 around here and there will not help much and
> > > might even insult the developer.
> >
> > Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed,
> > until! 8-)
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people
> would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the
> much more up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for
> £40.
I can't afford the time and hassle to get that tamed to accept about
>10 email addresses. Pluto already works.
Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding ris...@mdharding.org.uk
Russell Hafter News
Apr 22, 2012, 11:00:46 AM4/22/12
to
In article
<mpro.m2vtsx...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
of e-mails I have written in the same box.
> Pluto had an outbound message queue, which is virtually
> the same as MP's Outbox, especially if (like me) you
> don't have MP automatically send whatever is in the
> Outbox - things are sent when I decide to send them,
> giving me a few minutes (or more if I forget) time to
> reconsider my words.
Pluto's Q allows you to access the raw e-mail and the
envelope - useful if you want to change the e-mail address
you are sending from.
Also, if working late, I do not like to send out messages
timed at, say, 22:45, so, having quit POPStar, I can change
the date and time of sending to first thing the following
morning and the e-mails get sent as soon as I start the
machine.
[Snip]
> > And, if you are not careful, it insists on doing this
> > for every e-mail address you have.
> Does it? I have around 200 'identities' (separate
> outbound email addresses) and only one each of Inbox,
> Outbox, Sent Mail. However that's using an offline
> mailhandling mode (POP3 collection, deletion from
> server). It's probably different if you use IMAP where
> the folder structure in MP will match that of your mail
> provider's IMAP server.
Fair enough. I was going from the screen shot in the manual
that showed two of what appeared to be 'Users' in Pluto
parlance, each with an Inbox, Outbox, Sentbox, Bin and
Spambox...
> Other things I miss from Pluto days:
> - good handling of entire threads in an atomic manner
Agreed
> - versatile control of thread display, ie which threads
> in a MP group sort highest in the display, and indeed
> what order subthreads are shown in within a specific
> thread
> - versatile control of box sorting orders and column
> selection, and ability to change a the way a set of
> messages is being displayed to one of umpteen different
> display types
Absolutely. ClawsMail (the windows software I use) insists
on putting all my mailboxes in alphabetical order. Pluto
lets me put them in the order I want - basically importance.
> - ability to unlink a subthread from a thread (eg when
> someone has started a new thread by replying to part of
> an old one)
Yes again.
[Snip]
> Things Pluto users are used to which MP doesn't do:
> - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single
> box [snip MP's way]
Quite - I have 9 mailing lists for RISC OS software all into
the one box.
> - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a
> single box [snip MP's way]
Again, yes, all the csa NGs go into the one box.
> - these two things take a lot of getting used to if
> you're used to seeing eg all your RO related mail &
> news traffic in one place.
[Snip]
<mpro.m2vtsx...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
> wrote:
> > I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS
> Nor I.
> > but from a quick read of the manual for the Windows
> > version, it, like every non RISC OS e-mail program it
> > seems to insist on you having an Inbox, an Outbox and a
> > Sentbox.
> Pluto had the equivalent of an Inbox, the default mailbox
> for things nit directed elsewhere.
Yes, but I could rename it and, essentially, keep my copies
> wrote:
> > I do not know about Mess Pro for RISC OS
> Nor I.
> > but from a quick read of the manual for the Windows
> > version, it, like every non RISC OS e-mail program it
> > seems to insist on you having an Inbox, an Outbox and a
> > Sentbox.
> Pluto had the equivalent of an Inbox, the default mailbox
> for things nit directed elsewhere.
of e-mails I have written in the same box.
> Pluto had an outbound message queue, which is virtually
> the same as MP's Outbox, especially if (like me) you
> don't have MP automatically send whatever is in the
> Outbox - things are sent when I decide to send them,
> giving me a few minutes (or more if I forget) time to
> reconsider my words.
envelope - useful if you want to change the e-mail address
you are sending from.
Also, if working late, I do not like to send out messages
timed at, say, 22:45, so, having quit POPStar, I can change
the date and time of sending to first thing the following
morning and the e-mails get sent as soon as I start the
machine.
[Snip]
> > And, if you are not careful, it insists on doing this
> > for every e-mail address you have.
> Does it? I have around 200 'identities' (separate
> outbound email addresses) and only one each of Inbox,
> Outbox, Sent Mail. However that's using an offline
> mailhandling mode (POP3 collection, deletion from
> server). It's probably different if you use IMAP where
> the folder structure in MP will match that of your mail
> provider's IMAP server.
that showed two of what appeared to be 'Users' in Pluto
parlance, each with an Inbox, Outbox, Sentbox, Bin and
Spambox...
> Other things I miss from Pluto days:
> - good handling of entire threads in an atomic manner
> - versatile control of thread display, ie which threads
> in a MP group sort highest in the display, and indeed
> what order subthreads are shown in within a specific
> thread
> - versatile control of box sorting orders and column
> selection, and ability to change a the way a set of
> messages is being displayed to one of umpteen different
> display types
on putting all my mailboxes in alphabetical order. Pluto
lets me put them in the order I want - basically importance.
> - ability to unlink a subthread from a thread (eg when
> someone has started a new thread by replying to part of
> an old one)
[Snip]
> Things Pluto users are used to which MP doesn't do:
> - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single
Quite - I have 9 mailing lists for RISC OS software all into
the one box.
> - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a
Again, yes, all the csa NGs go into the one box.
> - these two things take a lot of getting used to if
> you're used to seeing eg all your RO related mail &
> news traffic in one place.
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 10:21:53 AM4/22/12
to
In article <528461b1...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
every now and then I get something like this happening:
Quote-----------------------------------------------------------
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01CD1EEF.AFC2F920
Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0060_01CD1EEF.AFC87760"
------=_NextPart_001_0060_01CD1EEF.AFC87760
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_002_0061_01CD1EEF.AFC87760"
------=_NextPart_002_0061_01CD1EEF.AFC87760
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
Here=92s this week=92s update and a few bits to go with it:
=20
=B7 Wednesday 25th April is the deadline for the May Newsletter.=20
Please send notices to be included this month to Denise in the Church
Office.=20
Any notices not received by 1pm that date will be in the weekly update =
for
one week only.
=B7 Please let Denise know which home group you attend, or if you =
would
like to be in a home group but don=92t attend any.
Unquote----------------------------------------------------------
There is more but enough is enough to show what I mean.
--
Stuart Winsor
Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> I would guess that for at least some of us we would rather
> invest the money to improve a piece of software that we have
> used for a very long time and are deeply familiar with,
> rather than have to go through a very steep learning curve
> for something else.
That is certainly true here and for 99.99% of the time it is fine, just
> invest the money to improve a piece of software that we have
> used for a very long time and are deeply familiar with,
> rather than have to go through a very steep learning curve
> for something else.
every now and then I get something like this happening:
Quote-----------------------------------------------------------
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01CD1EEF.AFC2F920
Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0060_01CD1EEF.AFC87760"
------=_NextPart_001_0060_01CD1EEF.AFC87760
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_002_0061_01CD1EEF.AFC87760"
------=_NextPart_002_0061_01CD1EEF.AFC87760
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
Here=92s this week=92s update and a few bits to go with it:
=20
=B7 Wednesday 25th April is the deadline for the May Newsletter.=20
Please send notices to be included this month to Denise in the Church
Office.=20
Any notices not received by 1pm that date will be in the weekly update =
for
one week only.
=B7 Please let Denise know which home group you attend, or if you =
would
like to be in a home group but don=92t attend any.
Unquote----------------------------------------------------------
There is more but enough is enough to show what I mean.
--
Stuart Winsor
Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 10:31:33 AM4/22/12
to
> That's probably a good thing, if Archive on Line is representative of
> Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
Don't forget that is a moderated group and as far as I am aware the
> Pluto's ability to run a mailing list...
moderator reads every post before it gets sent out to the subscribers,
resulting in quite lengthy hold-ups, so not entirely representative of
Pluto's capabilities.
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 10:32:28 AM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2vsqg...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
wrote:
> > Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users,
> > they're a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its
> > main storage gets too big.
> Yes, but having rarely accessed messages in external folders also means
> that they can be backed up much less often, so eg whereas back when I
> used Pluto I'd backup the main app every day, I only backed up external
> boxes when I migrated a set of messages into them.
> You can also have backup external boxes on eg CDs, which makes it easier
> to be sure that they'll survive a disk crash.
Yes.
> > Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users,
> > they're a work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its
> > main storage gets too big.
> Yes, but having rarely accessed messages in external folders also means
> that they can be backed up much less often, so eg whereas back when I
> used Pluto I'd backup the main app every day, I only backed up external
> boxes when I migrated a set of messages into them.
> You can also have backup external boxes on eg CDs, which makes it easier
> to be sure that they'll survive a disk crash.
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 11:23:31 AM4/22/12
to
In article <f5786984...@o2.co.uk>,
If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it automatically import several
Gigabytes of !Pluto external boxes without getting confused and keep them
in separate mboxes.
Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which it loads and
quits?
Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the mail from
different mailing lists is automatically filtered whilst maintaining one
user I.D. for my replies?
Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter capabilities?
I have a total of 56 boxes visible in my boxes list and stuff is easily
moved from one to another by selecting message or group of messages and
selecting a box from a drop down menu.
News expires after 7 days into a box called old news and after a further
28 days it expires to the bin.
Does MPro have selectable expiry times to variable locations?
I can choose 15 different ways in which messages are displayed in a box
and post sort on a temporary basis into any of the same 15.
Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
It's not just a mail/news reader display program
Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
OK
> > I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it automatically import several
Gigabytes of !Pluto external boxes without getting confused and keep them
in separate mboxes.
Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which it loads and
quits?
Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the mail from
different mailing lists is automatically filtered whilst maintaining one
user I.D. for my replies?
Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter capabilities?
I have a total of 56 boxes visible in my boxes list and stuff is easily
moved from one to another by selecting message or group of messages and
selecting a box from a drop down menu.
News expires after 7 days into a box called old news and after a further
28 days it expires to the bin.
Does MPro have selectable expiry times to variable locations?
I can choose 15 different ways in which messages are displayed in a box
and post sort on a temporary basis into any of the same 15.
Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
It's not just a mail/news reader display program
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 11:50:03 AM4/22/12
to
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 12:07:47 PM4/22/12
to
In message <528476df...@argonet.co.uk>
exported the Pluto files in one of the standard mail box formats drag
and drop effectively.
> Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which it loads and
> quits?
Well mine seems too.
> Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the mail from
> different mailing lists is automatically filtered whilst maintaining one
> user I.D. for my replies?
Yes, both filtering and you can set either a default user ID or a
different one per box if you wish.
> Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter capabilities?
I can't say.
> I have a total of 56 boxes visible in my boxes list and stuff is easily
> moved from one to another by selecting message or group of messages and
> selecting a box from a drop down menu.
You can move messages (or groups of messages) between different mail
boxes either by drag and drop or via menu options either as a move or
copy as you wish.
> News expires after 7 days into a box called old news and after a further
> 28 days it expires to the bin.
Not that I am awhere of, but you can expire the news at whatever
interval you want or never.
> Does MPro have selectable expiry times to variable locations?
Not sure what you mean with this one. But you can have different
expiry periods for each folder/box, or no expiry.
> I can choose 15 different ways in which messages are displayed in a box
> and post sort on a temporary basis into any of the same 15.
You can sort messages in different ways, maybe not 15, but you can
also change on a temporary basis or permanent basis if you wish the
field/columns that are displayed.
> Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
You can do searching .
> It's not just a mail/news reader display program
No indeed Pluto is a text database really that happens to be able to
be able to act as a email/news reader.
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <f5786984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
> OK
> If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it automatically import several
> Gigabytes of !Pluto external boxes without getting confused and keep them
> in separate mboxes.
If you set the initial mail boxes up yes, you can provided you have
> In article <f5786984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
>> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
> OK
> If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it automatically import several
> Gigabytes of !Pluto external boxes without getting confused and keep them
> in separate mboxes.
exported the Pluto files in one of the standard mail box formats drag
and drop effectively.
> Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which it loads and
> quits?
> Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the mail from
> different mailing lists is automatically filtered whilst maintaining one
> user I.D. for my replies?
different one per box if you wish.
> Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter capabilities?
> I have a total of 56 boxes visible in my boxes list and stuff is easily
> moved from one to another by selecting message or group of messages and
> selecting a box from a drop down menu.
boxes either by drag and drop or via menu options either as a move or
copy as you wish.
> News expires after 7 days into a box called old news and after a further
> 28 days it expires to the bin.
interval you want or never.
> Does MPro have selectable expiry times to variable locations?
expiry periods for each folder/box, or no expiry.
> I can choose 15 different ways in which messages are displayed in a box
> and post sort on a temporary basis into any of the same 15.
also change on a temporary basis or permanent basis if you wish the
field/columns that are displayed.
> Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
> It's not just a mail/news reader display program
be able to act as a email/news reader.
M Harding
Apr 22, 2012, 12:12:10 PM4/22/12
to
In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>,
An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do it. 8-)
I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
Brian Bailey
Apr 22, 2012, 12:19:33 PM4/22/12
to
> >> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would
> >> be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much
> >> more up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
> > prepared to do that speaks volumes.
> It may speak volumes but there does come a point where reality needs to
> kick in just look at the situation with Impression where there still
> seems people holding out for an update to that programme.
It all depends on what you mean by reality, as Prof Joad might have said.
> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
> programme.
rather than what people say he has said. I cannot recall any statement
from him. Can anyone supply an actual quote, please?
Russell Hafter News
Apr 22, 2012, 12:26:41 PM4/22/12
to
In article <5284713a...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
Nice to see that others get this stuff too.
Sometimes one can start to get paranoid...
Sometimes one can start to get paranoid...
Brian Bailey
Apr 22, 2012, 12:29:21 PM4/22/12
to
[snip]
> > I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would
> > be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> > up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
> > Alan
> A number of reasons Alan, a lot personal preferences and some quite
> practical, but that's all been discussed before...
> Occasionally one reads of a person who did dump Pluto in favour of Mess
> and wishes they hadn't.
Absolutely!
> More and more companies I deal with are using an html version of their
> mails as a container for a Base64 document within, and this requires
> some additional work to get at them... And sometimes, nothing on RO will
> do the stuff and they have to be moved to Windows to open up.
> A while back I was contemplating MessPro for RO, but unfortunately (for
> them) R-Comp won't do demo versions, so that closed down that thought.
Yes. I thought that buying Mess would be supporting RISC OS and wish that
I hadn't. Whilst I sincerely think that RComp do stirling work, Mess, in
particular, is a route that I wish to forego.
[snip]
> > I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would
> > be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> > up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
> > Alan
> A number of reasons Alan, a lot personal preferences and some quite
> practical, but that's all been discussed before...
> Occasionally one reads of a person who did dump Pluto in favour of Mess
> and wishes they hadn't.
> More and more companies I deal with are using an html version of their
> mails as a container for a Base64 document within, and this requires
> some additional work to get at them... And sometimes, nothing on RO will
> do the stuff and they have to be moved to Windows to open up.
> A while back I was contemplating MessPro for RO, but unfortunately (for
> them) R-Comp won't do demo versions, so that closed down that thought.
I hadn't. Whilst I sincerely think that RComp do stirling work, Mess, in
particular, is a route that I wish to forego.
[snip]
Steve Fryatt
Apr 22, 2012, 12:28:30 PM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr, M Harding wrote in message
<52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk>:
> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk>
> > M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I have a copy of MPro, although it's probably out of date by now. But
> > > I can't afford the time and hassle to get that tamed to accept about
> > > 10 email addresses. Pluto already works.
>
> > You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
>
> An hour to do it?
I'd have said less. Setting up multiple email addresses in M-Pro is just a
case of entering them into a list and then setting the default for each
mailbox if required (the first address in the list is used as default by
default, IYSWIM).
<52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk>:
> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk>
> > M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I have a copy of MPro, although it's probably out of date by now. But
> > > I can't afford the time and hassle to get that tamed to accept about
> > > 10 email addresses. Pluto already works.
>
> > You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
>
> An hour to do it?
case of entering them into a list and then setting the default for each
mailbox if required (the first address in the list is used as default by
default, IYSWIM).
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 12:43:29 PM4/22/12
to
In message <52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk>
and have working.
M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk>
>> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
>>> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people
>>>> would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get
>>>> the much more up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro
>>>> for £40.
>>> I have a copy of MPro, although it's probably out of date by now.
>>> But I can't afford the time and hassle to get that tamed to
>>> accept about
>>>>10 email addresses. Pluto already works.
>> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
> An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do it. 8-)
> I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
I use around 12 email addresses and it took around an hour to setup
> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>,
> Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk>
>> M Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <gemini.m2vlk9004l...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
>>> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people
>>>> would be prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get
>>>> the much more up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro
>>>> for £40.
>>> I have a copy of MPro, although it's probably out of date by now.
>>> But I can't afford the time and hassle to get that tamed to
>>> accept about
>>>>10 email addresses. Pluto already works.
>> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
> An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do it. 8-)
> I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
and have working.
Dave Symes
Apr 22, 2012, 12:52:12 PM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2w33g07...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
Pluto, but unless we can have a play with a demo version, sorry I'm not
buying the fluff.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> I'd have said less. Setting up multiple email addresses in M-Pro is
> just a case of entering them into a list and then setting the default
> for each mailbox if required (the first address in the list is used as
> default by default, IYSWIM).
Mnnn! So many saying MP can do this that or the other when compared to
> just a case of entering them into a list and then setting the default
> for each mailbox if required (the first address in the list is used as
> default by default, IYSWIM).
Pluto, but unless we can have a play with a demo version, sorry I'm not
buying the fluff.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
Russell Hafter News
Apr 22, 2012, 1:01:07 PM4/22/12
to
In article <4e317e84...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
> >> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
> > An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do
> > it. 8-) I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
> I use around 12 email addresses and it took around an
> hour to setup and have working.
So around 4 hours to set it up properly with some 50 e-mail
addresses?
Plus newsgroups, mailing lists?
Not an attractive prospect, to be honest!
<ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk> M Harding
> <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
> > <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> >> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk> M
> >> Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> In message <52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk> M Harding
> <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
> > <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> >> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk> M
> >> Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> >> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
> > An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do
> > it. 8-) I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
> I use around 12 email addresses and it took around an
> hour to setup and have working.
addresses?
Plus newsgroups, mailing lists?
Not an attractive prospect, to be honest!
Doug Webb
Apr 22, 2012, 1:31:37 PM4/22/12
to
In message <52847c00...@argonet.co.uk>
Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> It would be interesting to know what the programmer has actually said
> rather than what people say he has said. I cannot recall any statement
> from him. Can anyone supply an actual quote, please?
Well that was more a open response than a definitive statement as I
was not implying that a definitive statement had been made but it does
seem so far no one has been able to get hold of said programmer to
answer the question one way or another.
If someone can get old of Jonathan then no doubt everything will be
clearer but if there is no response then !Pluto owners then need to
make a decision on continuing to use a programme with no active
development or means to or choosing to engage to get development done
on a supported program.
Nothing would please me more than to see some development on !Pluto as
it gives options to the platform but until a positive response is made
by the developer then !Pluto is in effect orphaned and non maintained
software.
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.19.
Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>> programme.
> It would be interesting to know what the programmer has actually said
> rather than what people say he has said. I cannot recall any statement
> from him. Can anyone supply an actual quote, please?
was not implying that a definitive statement had been made but it does
seem so far no one has been able to get hold of said programmer to
answer the question one way or another.
If someone can get old of Jonathan then no doubt everything will be
clearer but if there is no response then !Pluto owners then need to
make a decision on continuing to use a programme with no active
development or means to or choosing to engage to get development done
on a supported program.
Nothing would please me more than to see some development on !Pluto as
it gives options to the platform but until a positive response is made
by the developer then !Pluto is in effect orphaned and non maintained
software.
--
See and experience the future using ARM Technology - BeagleBoard -xM,
Cortex A8 and RISC OS 5.19.
Steve Fryatt
Apr 22, 2012, 1:24:15 PM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr, Dave Symes wrote in message
<52847ef...@triffid.co.uk>:
Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said that you should buy M-Pro.
<52847ef...@triffid.co.uk>:
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 1:46:21 PM4/22/12
to
In article <a2ec7a84...@o2.co.uk>,
In" this box has an expiry period of 7 days. With !Pluto I can select any
box, including the bin obviously, for it to expire into. In my case, at
expiry, news articles are moved into a different box called "Old news".
This keeps "NewsIn" relatively small but allows me to go back to an older
article if needs be. The "Old News" box expires to the bin after a further
28 days.
I have something similar set up with one or two other in boxes such as
"The zfc" except that "Old zfc" box expires into a "zfc Archive" box.
All happens automatically with no intervention from me.
Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> Not sure what you mean with this one. But you can have different
> expiry periods for each folder/box, or no expiry.
As I explained, with my newsgroups, when news arrives it appears in "News
> Not sure what you mean with this one. But you can have different
> expiry periods for each folder/box, or no expiry.
In" this box has an expiry period of 7 days. With !Pluto I can select any
box, including the bin obviously, for it to expire into. In my case, at
expiry, news articles are moved into a different box called "Old news".
This keeps "NewsIn" relatively small but allows me to go back to an older
article if needs be. The "Old News" box expires to the bin after a further
28 days.
I have something similar set up with one or two other in boxes such as
"The zfc" except that "Old zfc" box expires into a "zfc Archive" box.
All happens automatically with no intervention from me.
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 1:57:22 PM4/22/12
to
In article <a2ec7a84...@o2.co.uk>,
Maybe not as clear as when you actually have the program in front of you
and start using it. Only then do you realise just how good it is.
Quote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Make Subset" dialogue allows you to create a new Article List which
contains articles which you have selected according to various
search and selection criteria.
The "Make Subset" dialogue is invoked by choosing "Subset" from the
Article List menu, or by pressing F4 in the Article List window.
The fields in the Make Subset dialogue are as follows:
-----------------------------
Select All.
This simply selects all the articles in the Article List.
Search All.
This selects articles from the Article List which match the selection
criteria given below.
Search Subset.
This selects articles from the Article List which are currently marked
as Selected (i.e. white on black lettering) and which also match the
selection criteria given below.
-------------------------------
The Selection Criteria:
Categories.
Enter Category names in here, either by typing the names, or by clicking
with Menu to open the Category window, and adjust-clicking a Category in
that to add it to this field.
Articles which have ANY of the specified Categories will be selected.
String.
Enter a text string here. Various fields of the articles are searched
to
match with this string, and articles are only selected if a match is
found.
The # character can be used in this search string to indicate "any
single
character".
Search ... Author ... etc.
These are the fields which are to be searched in the articles to look
for a match with "String". The article is selected if a match is found
in ANY of the specified fields.
Author
Title
Comment
Keys
Search the Author, Title, Cmnt, Keys fields respectively of the
articles'
headers.
Note, the Cmnt and Keys fields will not be displayed in the Article
Viewer window if they are empty. They can be revealed by clicking
on the Yellow Triangle button in the Article Viewer window.
Body.
Search the main text of the articles (not including the internet
header).
N.Chars.
If this field is set, it restricts a search of the main text of the
articles to the first so many characters.
Internet headers.
If this option is set, then the internet headers (if present) of the
articles will also be searched.
Case Sensitive.
Matches with the search String are case insensitive, unless this option
is set.
Date From.
Only search articles which have this date or later. Earlier articles
will not be selected. Dates must be given in the format: 01 Aug 97
Date To.
Only search articles which have this date or earlier. Later articles
will not be selected.
--------------------------------------
New.
Create a new article list which contains only those articles which
meet the search criteria.
Keep.
Doesn't create a new list, but just keeps articles in the original
list which meet the search criteria. The other articles, which don't,
are removed from the list.
Drop.
Remove articles from the article list which meet the search criteria.
Add.
Add articles to the current article list from another specified list.
Only those articles from the other list which meet the search criteria
are added. Type the name of the required article list into the "From"
field. The name "All" indicates all articles in all document boxes.
Unquote-------------------------------------------------------------------
In my case, many of the mailing list articles I receive, contain large
amounts of useful information. Being able to search through for particular
topics, often this will involve a string search, with or without
wildcards, sometimes for authors, is very important to me.
Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
> You can do searching .
Can it match this?
> > Searching for stuff is a whole other section in the manual.
> You can do searching .
Maybe not as clear as when you actually have the program in front of you
and start using it. Only then do you realise just how good it is.
Quote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Make Subset" dialogue allows you to create a new Article List which
contains articles which you have selected according to various
search and selection criteria.
The "Make Subset" dialogue is invoked by choosing "Subset" from the
Article List menu, or by pressing F4 in the Article List window.
The fields in the Make Subset dialogue are as follows:
-----------------------------
Select All.
This simply selects all the articles in the Article List.
Search All.
This selects articles from the Article List which match the selection
criteria given below.
Search Subset.
This selects articles from the Article List which are currently marked
as Selected (i.e. white on black lettering) and which also match the
selection criteria given below.
-------------------------------
The Selection Criteria:
Categories.
Enter Category names in here, either by typing the names, or by clicking
with Menu to open the Category window, and adjust-clicking a Category in
that to add it to this field.
Articles which have ANY of the specified Categories will be selected.
String.
Enter a text string here. Various fields of the articles are searched
to
match with this string, and articles are only selected if a match is
found.
The # character can be used in this search string to indicate "any
single
character".
Search ... Author ... etc.
These are the fields which are to be searched in the articles to look
for a match with "String". The article is selected if a match is found
in ANY of the specified fields.
Author
Title
Comment
Keys
Search the Author, Title, Cmnt, Keys fields respectively of the
articles'
headers.
Note, the Cmnt and Keys fields will not be displayed in the Article
Viewer window if they are empty. They can be revealed by clicking
on the Yellow Triangle button in the Article Viewer window.
Body.
Search the main text of the articles (not including the internet
header).
N.Chars.
If this field is set, it restricts a search of the main text of the
articles to the first so many characters.
Internet headers.
If this option is set, then the internet headers (if present) of the
articles will also be searched.
Case Sensitive.
Matches with the search String are case insensitive, unless this option
is set.
Date From.
Only search articles which have this date or later. Earlier articles
will not be selected. Dates must be given in the format: 01 Aug 97
Date To.
Only search articles which have this date or earlier. Later articles
will not be selected.
--------------------------------------
New.
Create a new article list which contains only those articles which
meet the search criteria.
Keep.
Doesn't create a new list, but just keeps articles in the original
list which meet the search criteria. The other articles, which don't,
are removed from the list.
Drop.
Remove articles from the article list which meet the search criteria.
Add.
Add articles to the current article list from another specified list.
Only those articles from the other list which meet the search criteria
are added. Type the name of the required article list into the "From"
field. The name "All" indicates all articles in all document boxes.
Unquote-------------------------------------------------------------------
In my case, many of the mailing list articles I receive, contain large
amounts of useful information. Being able to search through for particular
topics, often this will involve a string search, with or without
wildcards, sometimes for authors, is very important to me.
Dave Symes
Apr 22, 2012, 1:59:35 PM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2w5od08...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
"this-that-and-the-other" capabilites in Mess, so I answered from there.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 22 Apr, Dave Symes wrote in message
> <52847ef...@triffid.co.uk>:
> > In article <mpro.m2w33g07...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> > Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd have said less. Setting up multiple email addresses in M-Pro is
> > > just a case of entering them into a list and then setting the
> > > default for each mailbox if required (the first address in the list
> > > is used as default by default, IYSWIM).
> >
> > Mnnn! So many saying MP can do this that or the other when compared to
> > Pluto, but unless we can have a play with a demo version, sorry I'm not
> > buying the fluff.
> Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said that you should buy M-Pro.
You didn't... Yours was the last in the list of post I read about the
> On 22 Apr, Dave Symes wrote in message
> <52847ef...@triffid.co.uk>:
> > In article <mpro.m2w33g07...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> > Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd have said less. Setting up multiple email addresses in M-Pro is
> > > just a case of entering them into a list and then setting the
> > > default for each mailbox if required (the first address in the list
> > > is used as default by default, IYSWIM).
> >
> > Mnnn! So many saying MP can do this that or the other when compared to
> > Pluto, but unless we can have a play with a demo version, sorry I'm not
> > buying the fluff.
> Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said that you should buy M-Pro.
"this-that-and-the-other" capabilites in Mess, so I answered from there.
D.
--
Dave Triffid
Chris Hughes
Apr 22, 2012, 1:44:33 PM4/22/12
to
In message <52847fce...@walkingingermany.invalid>
1 hour for 12 email addresses. I was including newsgroups and mailing
lists.
> Not an attractive prospect, to be honest!
Entirely your right.
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
> In article <4e317e84...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk> M Harding
>> <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
>>> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk> M
>>>> Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> [Snip]
>>>> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
>>> An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do
>>> it. 8-) I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
>> I use around 12 email addresses and it took around an
>> hour to setup and have working.
> So around 4 hours to set it up properly with some 50 e-mail
> addresses?
> Plus newsgroups, mailing lists?
Probably a lot less then taht to be honest I was being generous saying
> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <52847b53...@mdharding.org.uk> M Harding
>> <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <154d7984...@o2.co.uk>, Chris Hughes
>>> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <528473c2...@mdharding.org.uk> M
>>>> Harding <ris...@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> [Snip]
>>>> You mean you don't have about an hour to do it in?
>>> An hour to do it? Several days to work out how to do
>>> it. 8-) I do rely on this as my main email gateway.
>> I use around 12 email addresses and it took around an
>> hour to setup and have working.
> So around 4 hours to set it up properly with some 50 e-mail
> addresses?
> Plus newsgroups, mailing lists?
1 hour for 12 email addresses. I was including newsgroups and mailing
lists.
> Not an attractive prospect, to be honest!
Peter Young
Apr 22, 2012, 2:20:58 PM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr 2012 Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>
> Brian Jordan <brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,
>> Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
>>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> [Snip]
>>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>>> programme.
>> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
>> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
>> start and in no particular order:
>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
>> It doesn't support the ability to run a mailing list.
> No you can't run a mailing list service, but it does handle mailing
> lists.
>> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
>> articles".
> Not sure about this one, but I believe its does this automatically.
Yes, it does. I get frequent messages cross-posted between
alt.english.usage and alt.usage.english and only one copy finds its
way into MPro.
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk
> In message <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>
> Brian Jordan <brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In article <4fc85e8452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,
>> Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> In message <52845c3d...@argonet.co.uk>
>>> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> [Snip]
>>> If the programmer neither wishes to update or release the source code
>>> then it may be that the money is better spent to develop a programme
>>> that is still current and ask for the specific advantages of !Pluto
>>> that users perceive to be replicated in that currently supported
>>> programme.
>> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
>> start and in no particular order:
>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> oh yes its does, they are simply mbox files.
> No you can't run a mailing list service, but it does handle mailing
> lists.
>> There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to Plutos "Delete duplicate
>> articles".
> Not sure about this one, but I believe its does this automatically.
Yes, it does. I get frequent messages cross-posted between
alt.english.usage and alt.usage.english and only one copy finds its
way into MPro.
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk
Peter Young
Apr 22, 2012, 2:19:07 PM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr 2012 Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 22 Apr, Brian Jordan wrote in message
> <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>:
>> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
>> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
>> start and in no particular order:
>>
>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> into Archive Folders and leave them there out of the way.
Or export old messages in raw format and then delete them (I do this
about twice yearly), and that format makes it easy to reimport
messages into MPro if you ever need to.
> On 22 Apr, Brian Jordan wrote in message
> <52846250c9b...@btinternet.com>:
>> I have Messenger here but have yet to make the switch from Pluto although
>> it is eminently sensible to use a supported application because, for a
>> start and in no particular order:
>>
>> I can't find anything equivalent to external boxes.
> Why are they needed? From the descriptions given by Pluto users, they're a
> work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
> gets too big.
> M-Pro doesn't have this undesirable 'feature', so you just transfer messages
> work-around to the problem that Pluto breaks messily if its main storage
> gets too big.
> into Archive Folders and leave them there out of the way.
Or export old messages in raw format and then delete them (I do this
about twice yearly), and that format makes it easy to reimport
messages into MPro if you ever need to.
Ron Briscoe
Apr 22, 2012, 2:27:31 PM4/22/12
to
In article <7f99828452...@doug.j.webb.btinternet.com>,
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> If someone can get old of Jonathan then no doubt everything will be
> clearer but if there is no response then !Pluto owners then need to
> make a decision on continuing to use a programme with no active
> development or means to or choosing to engage to get development done
> on a supported program.
About par for a lot of RISC OS software then ;-).
> Nothing would please me more than to see some development on !Pluto as
> it gives options to the platform but until a positive response is made
> by the developer then !Pluto is in effect orphaned and non maintained
> software.
But not as much as me :-)).
Regards Ron.
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
[Snip]
> If someone can get old of Jonathan then no doubt everything will be
> clearer but if there is no response then !Pluto owners then need to
> make a decision on continuing to use a programme with no active
> development or means to or choosing to engage to get development done
> on a supported program.
> Nothing would please me more than to see some development on !Pluto as
> it gives options to the platform but until a positive response is made
> by the developer then !Pluto is in effect orphaned and non maintained
> software.
Regards Ron.
Chris Johnson
Apr 22, 2012, 2:26:42 PM4/22/12
to
In article <528484f4...@argonet.co.uk>,
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Can it match this?
[Massive snip]
I think the point is that !Pluto is a very flexible text based data
base. Its input doesn't even need to be mail/news articles, but
simply pieces of text. I used it at one time as a simple database to
temporarily store abstracts of scientific articles, using fields such
as categories to filter the 'articles'. Thus there are facilities
present that you wouldn't find in a dedicated mail reader.
--
Chris Johnson
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Can it match this?
[Massive snip]
I think the point is that !Pluto is a very flexible text based data
base. Its input doesn't even need to be mail/news articles, but
simply pieces of text. I used it at one time as a simple database to
temporarily store abstracts of scientific articles, using fields such
as categories to filter the 'articles'. Thus there are facilities
present that you wouldn't find in a dedicated mail reader.
--
Chris Johnson
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 4:34:30 PM4/22/12
to
> Other things I miss from Pluto days:
> - good handling of entire threads in an atomic manner
That's a point - I haven't checked the thread handling in [Windows]
> - good handling of entire threads in an atomic manner
Messenger Pro in quite some time, to see if it's been fixed (I find it
seriously broken). However, I don't recall Mark mentioning the problem being
dealt with whenever he's announced a new version, so it probably hasn't.
For info:
http://bugs.intellegit.com/view.php?id=168 and
http://www.softrock.co.uk/temp/gemthread/
AAMOI, would anyone care to comment on RISC OS Messenger Pro's behaviour
when using threading to read news and mailing lists, with my preferred
delete as you read approach? Is it closer to the Windows version's strange
behaviour, or does it display something like Pluto's much more useable
results?
[...]
> I'm sure more will occur to me.
If memory serves, like me, you found the way it dealt with multiple users
exceptionally good - particularly the ability to create wildcarded users.
--
Soft Rock Software: http://www.softrock.co.uk
Vince M Hudd: http://misc.vinceh.com/about-vinceh/
RISCOSitory: http://www.riscository.com
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 4:02:26 PM4/22/12
to
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
[...]
> > It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> > e-mails/postings.
> > If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
> > much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
Could you clarify that, please? Pluto's external boxes are exactly that -
external; once you've transferred messages into such a box, they are no
longer stored in Pluto's main database, though they remain fully indexed
within the external box - only when that box is dragged back into Pluto does
it see those articles, until that session ends (or there might be a way to
unload them again, I forget).
This is crucially different to how the alien (by which I mean non-RISC OS)
Messenger Pro works; you can archive as much as you wish, but those archives
remain in (and therefore a part of) the main article database.
While I might be wrong, I've a sneaking suspicion that the RISC OS Messenger
Pro works the same way as the alien version, with 'archives' simply being
folders, perhaps in a parent folder called 'archive', that are set to never
expire, and that there is some talking at cross purposes going on.
You were quite correct in an earlier post that the concept of external boxes
were introduced to overcome a problem, but they're actually a useful feature
in their own right.
> On 22 Apr, "John Williams (News)" wrote in message
> <52846a82...@tiscali.co.uk>:
[...]
> > It is very useful to be able to search a limited number of
> > e-mails/postings.
> > If one methodically saves external boxes by date, for example, it can be
> > much quicker to locate an item, particularly when searching by keyword.
> Yes. Which can be done in *exactly* the same way using Messenger's
> Archive folders (as I pointed out in the bit that you snipped).
Could you clarify that, please? Pluto's external boxes are exactly that -
external; once you've transferred messages into such a box, they are no
longer stored in Pluto's main database, though they remain fully indexed
within the external box - only when that box is dragged back into Pluto does
it see those articles, until that session ends (or there might be a way to
unload them again, I forget).
This is crucially different to how the alien (by which I mean non-RISC OS)
Messenger Pro works; you can archive as much as you wish, but those archives
remain in (and therefore a part of) the main article database.
While I might be wrong, I've a sneaking suspicion that the RISC OS Messenger
Pro works the same way as the alien version, with 'archives' simply being
folders, perhaps in a parent folder called 'archive', that are set to never
expire, and that there is some talking at cross purposes going on.
You were quite correct in an earlier post that the concept of external boxes
were introduced to overcome a problem, but they're actually a useful feature
in their own right.
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 4:17:42 PM4/22/12
to
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> Occasionally one reads of a person who did dump Pluto in favour of Mess
> and wishes they hadn't.
(Windows version, but...)
> Occasionally one reads of a person who did dump Pluto in favour of Mess
> and wishes they hadn't.
*raises hand*
Unfortunately, though, my decision to switch was because having my email on
the RISC OS machine became impractical when I was using a Windows machine so
much - but I really wish I could have continued using Pluto for my news and
mail.
And it's that useage which has dictated other decisions: I have occasionally
considered contacting Jonathan to see if he'd be interested in discussing a
price to sell Pluto to me to develop it further - but when reality kicks in,
I realise just how impractical that is; quite apart from the problem of
finding the time to work on yet another project - and not to mention being
able to read someone else's C sources, which I'm ludicrously crap at doing -
the real kicker is the fact that it's no longer practical for me to *use*
Pluto, and if I don't use it on a day to day basis, I really don't see how I
could further develop and maintain it. It's a non-starter - unfortunately.
(Oh, and somewhere in there is the big question mark over whether there
really would be enough interest in an updated version to be able to cover
the investment, let alone profit from it. I almost forgot that one.)
Dave Symes
Apr 22, 2012, 4:53:50 PM4/22/12
to
In article <mpro.m2wd0200j...@softrock.co.uk>,
Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Could you clarify that, please? Pluto's external boxes are exactly that
> - external; once you've transferred messages into such a box, they are
> no longer stored in Pluto's main database, though they remain fully
> indexed within the external box - only when that box is dragged back
> into Pluto does it see those articles, until that session ends (or there
> might be a way to unload them again, I forget).
There is.
Click Menu button in the Boxes List and click "Close External box"
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Could you clarify that, please? Pluto's external boxes are exactly that
> - external; once you've transferred messages into such a box, they are
> no longer stored in Pluto's main database, though they remain fully
> indexed within the external box - only when that box is dragged back
> into Pluto does it see those articles, until that session ends (or there
> might be a way to unload them again, I forget).
Click Menu button in the Boxes List and click "Close External box"
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
druck
Apr 22, 2012, 5:02:51 PM4/22/12
to
On 22/04/2012 14:12, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> IIRC Pluto lets you have up to 4
> external boxes open in the main app at any one time. You can close any or
> all of them when you want and open others. It's an elegant solution.
Anything which imposes an arbitrary and small number of things open at a
time does not sound like an "elegant solution". It sounds like the early
90's again.
> It'd be like having a MP Group suddenly appear in the All Groups list. In
> MP you'd need to import the previously exported items (slow), then they'd be
> part of the main database again. If you made changes you'd have to manually
> cope with creating new exports.
This sounds like a vanishingly unlikely scenario.
---druck
> IIRC Pluto lets you have up to 4
> external boxes open in the main app at any one time. You can close any or
> all of them when you want and open others. It's an elegant solution.
Anything which imposes an arbitrary and small number of things open at a
time does not sound like an "elegant solution". It sounds like the early
90's again.
> It'd be like having a MP Group suddenly appear in the All Groups list. In
> MP you'd need to import the previously exported items (slow), then they'd be
> part of the main database again. If you made changes you'd have to manually
> cope with creating new exports.
This sounds like a vanishingly unlikely scenario.
---druck
druck
Apr 22, 2012, 5:05:57 PM4/22/12
to
On 22/04/2012 21:02, Vince M Hudd wrote:
> This is crucially different to how the alien (by which I mean non-RISC OS)
> Messenger Pro works; you can archive as much as you wish, but those archives
> remain in (and therefore a part of) the main article database.
What is this 'alien' crap? There have only been 4 email programs for
> This is crucially different to how the alien (by which I mean non-RISC OS)
> Messenger Pro works; you can archive as much as you wish, but those archives
> remain in (and therefore a part of) the main article database.
RISC OS, and Pluto is the only one which works in that way. To imply
that anything that doesn't work in the often idiosyncratic way that
Pluto does is non RISC OS, is ridiculous.
---druck
Martin Bazley
Apr 22, 2012, 5:10:05 PM4/22/12
to
The following bytes were arranged on 22 Apr 2012 by Jeremy Nicoll - news posts :
> Other things I miss from Pluto days:
[snip]
> - ability to select a set of messages, or those which are results of
> a search, and have them open in a new viewer as if they were the
> contents of a separate virtual box. One can do that recursively
> to get subsets of subsets
At least in the case of search results, this is MP's default behaviour -
and there's an option to either permanently keep the resulting folder or
delete it after you close its window. And yes, you can recursively
search the search results too.
> - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single box - MP
> routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
>
> - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a single box - MP
> routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
This seems a very odd thing to want to do, especially if you were
planning to send replies to any of those messages. Then again, I don't
have two hundred separate online identities, so I guess there's no
accounting for taste.
Personally, while I can fully understand that an email client takes an
enormous amount of time to learn how to use, never mind the aeons spent
migrating one's data from a different format and configuring many
different filters and folders to represent the previous setup, there are
times when I wish people would just accept that Pluto is a dead end.
Some of the justifications I've read on this thread - not the feature
lists, but the "Thou Shalt Not Defile That Which Is Sacred!!" sort of
thing - are nothing short of hilarious, considering its many rather
more major shortcomings. Anyone would think Pluto could turn water into
wine or something.
--
__<^>__ Red sky in the morning: Shepherd's warning
/ _ _ \ Red sky at night: Shepherd's delight
( ( |_| ) ) Mince and potatoes: Shepherd's pie
\_> <_/ ======================= Martin Bazley ==========================
> Other things I miss from Pluto days:
> - ability to select a set of messages, or those which are results of
> a search, and have them open in a new viewer as if they were the
> contents of a separate virtual box. One can do that recursively
> to get subsets of subsets
At least in the case of search results, this is MP's default behaviour -
and there's an option to either permanently keep the resulting folder or
delete it after you close its window. And yes, you can recursively
search the search results too.
> - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single box - MP
> routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
>
> - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a single box - MP
> routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
This seems a very odd thing to want to do, especially if you were
planning to send replies to any of those messages. Then again, I don't
have two hundred separate online identities, so I guess there's no
accounting for taste.
Personally, while I can fully understand that an email client takes an
enormous amount of time to learn how to use, never mind the aeons spent
migrating one's data from a different format and configuring many
different filters and folders to represent the previous setup, there are
times when I wish people would just accept that Pluto is a dead end.
Some of the justifications I've read on this thread - not the feature
lists, but the "Thou Shalt Not Defile That Which Is Sacred!!" sort of
thing - are nothing short of hilarious, considering its many rather
more major shortcomings. Anyone would think Pluto could turn water into
wine or something.
--
__<^>__ Red sky in the morning: Shepherd's warning
/ _ _ \ Red sky at night: Shepherd's delight
( ( |_| ) ) Mince and potatoes: Shepherd's pie
\_> <_/ ======================= Martin Bazley ==========================
Stuart
Apr 22, 2012, 5:15:03 PM4/22/12
to
In article <jn1rls$vc$1...@dont-email.me>,
purposes, four is not a restrictive limit. I think the most I have ever
needed loaded at the same time has been two.
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> Anything which imposes an arbitrary and small number of things open at a
> time does not sound like an "elegant solution". It sounds like the early
> 90's again.
In practice though, because external boxes are largely used for archive
> Anything which imposes an arbitrary and small number of things open at a
> time does not sound like an "elegant solution". It sounds like the early
> 90's again.
purposes, four is not a restrictive limit. I think the most I have ever
needed loaded at the same time has been two.
Grahame Parish
Apr 22, 2012, 5:19:08 PM4/22/12
to
In message <gemini.m2vlk9004loix02yw.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyou
rself.co.uk>
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
wrote:
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
>>> probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
>>> time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
>>> there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
>>
>> Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed, until! 8-)
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
> Alan
I moved from Pluto to MPro a few years back, but there's still some
small but useful features I miss, like being able to work through all
the unread newsgroup messages from the first to the last regardless of
how many groups are involved, just by click on the next message
button. Note that this doesn't wrap over into mail messages but stays
within the confines of news messages only.
I also miss the external boxes feature where old data can be moved
outside of the main application into its own categorised
mini-applications but easily added back on a temporary basis for
searching, adding to, etc.
I also find I can no longer click on a reference in a posting and be
taken to the referred item - MPro tries to send an email to the
'address' of the reference.
One enhancement to Hermes that I would like to see though is the
ability to link a mailbox to a profile within Hermes so that the
parameters for sending mail from a specific box can be set to use a
predetermined connection to a server, possibly different to mail sent
from another box/email address. I need to do something like this to
work round Virgin's insistence of using 'sent on behalf of' for al my
outbound may from my various domains. I can no longer post to some of
the mailling lists I'm subscribed to because of this change.
--
Grahame Parish
Aylesbury, Bucks. HP19 (UK)
maillistDOTparishATmillersHYPHENwayDOTnet
rself.co.uk>
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
wrote:
> Brian Bailey <bba...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> If you want something like Pluto developed then you are going to have
>>> probably cough up lots of money, and thats if the developer now has the
>>> time or interest (and equipment) to do it. Waving £50 around here and
>>> there will not help much and might even insult the developer.
>>
>> Forget it then. My money stays in the biscuit tin under my bed, until! 8-)
> I've often wondered what is so special about Pluto that people would be
> prepared to pay £50 for an update when they could get the much more
> up-to-date (and currently supported) Messenger Pro for £40.
I moved from Pluto to MPro a few years back, but there's still some
small but useful features I miss, like being able to work through all
the unread newsgroup messages from the first to the last regardless of
how many groups are involved, just by click on the next message
button. Note that this doesn't wrap over into mail messages but stays
within the confines of news messages only.
I also miss the external boxes feature where old data can be moved
outside of the main application into its own categorised
mini-applications but easily added back on a temporary basis for
searching, adding to, etc.
I also find I can no longer click on a reference in a posting and be
taken to the referred item - MPro tries to send an email to the
'address' of the reference.
One enhancement to Hermes that I would like to see though is the
ability to link a mailbox to a profile within Hermes so that the
parameters for sending mail from a specific box can be set to use a
predetermined connection to a server, possibly different to mail sent
from another box/email address. I need to do something like this to
work round Virgin's insistence of using 'sent on behalf of' for al my
outbound may from my various domains. I can no longer post to some of
the mailling lists I'm subscribed to because of this change.
--
Grahame Parish
Aylesbury, Bucks. HP19 (UK)
maillistDOTparishATmillersHYPHENwayDOTnet
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 5:54:22 PM4/22/12
to
Russell Hafter News
Apr 22, 2012, 6:04:01 PM4/22/12
to
In article <528476df...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it
> automatically import several Gigabytes of !Pluto external
> boxes without getting confused and keep them in separate
> mboxes.
Which has just reminded me - Pluto came with the ability to
import from Voyager - it is a simple click on the icon bar
menu.
Now, if Mpro had an 'Import from Pluto' function...
> Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which
> it loads and quits?
> Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the
> mail from different mailing lists is automatically
> filtered whilst maintaining one user I.D. for my replies?
> Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter
> capabilities?
... but not just the data, also the couple of hundred
existing filters, the address book...
<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> If I were to suddenly migrate to MPro, can it
> automatically import several Gigabytes of !Pluto external
> boxes without getting confused and keep them in separate
> mboxes.
Which has just reminded me - Pluto came with the ability to
import from Voyager - it is a simple click on the icon bar
menu.
Now, if Mpro had an 'Import from Pluto' function...
> Does having many GB of "stuff" affect the speed in which
> it loads and quits?
> Can it handle in excess of thirty "Inboxes" to which the
> mail from different mailing lists is automatically
> filtered whilst maintaining one user I.D. for my replies?
> Come to that, can it match !Pluto in it's filter
> capabilities?
... but not just the data, also the couple of hundred
existing filters, the address book...
Dev
Apr 22, 2012, 6:12:11 PM4/22/12
to
In article <a2999684...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Martin Bazley
<martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Anyone would think Pluto
> could turn water into wine or something.
Click Select over the Spell button; click Select over the 'Dict' button
in the spell window which opens; add the line "water[tab]wine" (without
the quotes to the top part of the text file that opens; save and close
the text file and the spell window.
Now type the word water into a write window: Job done.
Oh, how I wish Pluto was ported to Linux (and updated).
--
Dev
Om Namah Shivaya | Om Sasi-shekha-raya namaha
<martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
> Anyone would think Pluto
> could turn water into wine or something.
in the spell window which opens; add the line "water[tab]wine" (without
the quotes to the top part of the text file that opens; save and close
the text file and the spell window.
Now type the word water into a write window: Job done.
Oh, how I wish Pluto was ported to Linux (and updated).
--
Dev
Om Namah Shivaya | Om Sasi-shekha-raya namaha
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 6:30:25 PM4/22/12
to
Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> The following bytes were arranged on 22 Apr 2012 by Jeremy Nicoll - news
> posts :
[...]
> The following bytes were arranged on 22 Apr 2012 by Jeremy Nicoll - news
> posts :
> > - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single box - MP
> > routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
> > - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a single box - MP
> > routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
> This seems a very odd thing to want to do, especially if you were planning
> to send replies to any of those messages.
Within those boxes (or, indeed, "that box" if you had both mailing lists and
newsgroups in the same box), the newsgroups and mailing lists were sorted
and appropriately threaded *by* newsgroup and mailing list.
This meant, for example, I could start at the first group (or list - I
forget which were listed first), and read it right through to the end,
pressing whatver the key combo was to move onto the next unread message,
closing the one just read (or deleting it, depending on the key combo).
If that message was the last one in a group, the next one opened would be in
the next group.
Whereas now, when I get to the end of the group and want to move on to the
next one, I have to manually open that group - which means a quick switch to
the mouse and back. And to this day, even though I am quite used to doing
it, having done so for many years, it *still annoys the hell out of me*.
As for replies, I can't remember Pluto's mechanism, but I'm fairly sure that
even if you had different addresses for different mailing lists, it would
quite happily use the correct one when replying.
> Then again, I don't have two hundred separate online identities, so I
> guess there's no accounting for taste.
use of Pluto's rather *excellent* handling of user identities.
[...]
> considering its many rather more major shortcomings. Anyone would think
> Pluto could turn water into wine or something.
Select that box and press ctrl-F8, then select suitable options from the
dialogue that appears, and finally export the resulting wine.
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 6:31:59 PM4/22/12
to
Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> The following bytes were arranged on 22 Apr 2012 by Jeremy Nicoll - news
> posts :
[...]
> The following bytes were arranged on 22 Apr 2012 by Jeremy Nicoll - news
> posts :
> > - having mails from multiple maillists routed to a single box - MP
> > routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
> > - having posts from separate newsgroups routed to a single box - MP
> > routes each maillist's messages to a separate 'group' folder.
> This seems a very odd thing to want to do, especially if you were planning
> to send replies to any of those messages.
It sounds odd because it doesn't explain things fully.
Within those boxes (or, indeed, "that box" if you had both mailing lists and
newsgroups in the same box), the newsgroups and mailing lists were sorted
and appropriately threaded *by* newsgroup and mailing list.
This meant, for example, I could start at the first group (or list - I
forget which were listed first), and read it right through to the end,
pressing whatver the key combo was to move onto the next unread message,
closing the one just read (or deleting it, depending on the key combo).
If that message was the last one in a group, the next one opened would be in
the next group.
Whereas now, when I get to the end of the group and want to move on to the
next one, I have to manually open that group - which means a quick switch to
the mouse and back. And to this day, even though I am quite used to doing
it, having done so for many years, it *still annoys the hell out of me*.
As for replies, I can't remember Pluto's mechanism, but I'm fairly sure that
even if you had different addresses for different mailing lists, it would
quite happily use the correct one when replying.
Within those boxes (or, indeed, "that box" if you had both mailing lists and
newsgroups in the same box), the newsgroups and mailing lists were sorted
and appropriately threaded *by* newsgroup and mailing list.
This meant, for example, I could start at the first group (or list - I
forget which were listed first), and read it right through to the end,
pressing whatver the key combo was to move onto the next unread message,
closing the one just read (or deleting it, depending on the key combo).
If that message was the last one in a group, the next one opened would be in
the next group.
Whereas now, when I get to the end of the group and want to move on to the
next one, I have to manually open that group - which means a quick switch to
the mouse and back. And to this day, even though I am quite used to doing
it, having done so for many years, it *still annoys the hell out of me*.
As for replies, I can't remember Pluto's mechanism, but I'm fairly sure that
even if you had different addresses for different mailing lists, it would
quite happily use the correct one when replying.
> Then again, I don't have two hundred separate online identities, so I
> guess there's no accounting for taste.
If memory serves, neither did Jeremy when he used Pluto. He just made good
> guess there's no accounting for taste.
use of Pluto's rather *excellent* handling of user identities - unless I'm
thinking of someone else. Jeremy will probably be able to confirm if I'm
remembering correctly.
[...]
> considering its many rather more major shortcomings. Anyone would think
> Pluto could turn water into wine or something.
Vince M Hudd
Apr 22, 2012, 6:33:33 PM4/22/12
to
Dev <spam...@no.spam.invalid> wrote:
>
> Click Select over the Spell button; click Select over the 'Dict' button in
> the spell window which opens; add the line "water[tab]wine" (without the
> quotes to the top part of the text file that opens; save and close the
> text file and the spell window.
Damn it! Why didn't I think of that in my reply? :(
>
> Click Select over the Spell button; click Select over the 'Dict' button in
> the spell window which opens; add the line "water[tab]wine" (without the
> quotes to the top part of the text file that opens; save and close the
> text file and the spell window.
Steve Fryatt
Apr 22, 2012, 6:52:34 PM4/22/12
to
On 22 Apr, Vince M Hudd wrote in message
<mpro.m2wjup00o...@softrock.co.uk>:
> Within those boxes (or, indeed, "that box" if you had both mailing lists
> and newsgroups in the same box), the newsgroups and mailing lists were
> sorted and appropriately threaded *by* newsgroup and mailing list.
>
> This meant, for example, I could start at the first group (or list - I
> forget which were listed first), and read it right through to the end,
> pressing whatver the key combo was to move onto the next unread message,
> closing the one just read (or deleting it, depending on the key combo).
>
> If that message was the last one in a group, the next one opened would be
> in the next group.
>
> Whereas now, when I get to the end of the group and want to move on to the
> next one, I have to manually open that group - which means a quick switch
> to the mouse and back. And to this day, even though I am quite used to
> doing it, having done so for many years, it *still annoys the hell out of
> me*.
I'm sure (although I don't do it, as I prefer to manually switch groups)
that M-Pro's "next message" key (or one of them) will jump groups as
required. That is, reach the end of csa.apps and it will jump into
csa.hardware or whatever is next.
Having played with Pluto's demos in the past, it seems to me that few of
these features are unique to Pluto. It's just that Pluto implemented them
differently to Every Other News And Mail Client Ever (including M-Pro).
Which means that anyone who found Pluto first hates everything else, and
everyone who used another client first (I started out with Pine and Tin on
Solaris, supplemented by NetScape News on Windows NT, before moving to
Freeware Messenger when my RiscPC finally met the internet) loathes Pluto
with a passion.
<mpro.m2wjup00o...@softrock.co.uk>:
> Within those boxes (or, indeed, "that box" if you had both mailing lists
> and newsgroups in the same box), the newsgroups and mailing lists were
> sorted and appropriately threaded *by* newsgroup and mailing list.
>
> This meant, for example, I could start at the first group (or list - I
> forget which were listed first), and read it right through to the end,
> pressing whatver the key combo was to move onto the next unread message,
> closing the one just read (or deleting it, depending on the key combo).
>
> If that message was the last one in a group, the next one opened would be
> in the next group.
>
> Whereas now, when I get to the end of the group and want to move on to the
> next one, I have to manually open that group - which means a quick switch
> to the mouse and back. And to this day, even though I am quite used to
> doing it, having done so for many years, it *still annoys the hell out of
> me*.
that M-Pro's "next message" key (or one of them) will jump groups as
required. That is, reach the end of csa.apps and it will jump into
csa.hardware or whatever is next.
Having played with Pluto's demos in the past, it seems to me that few of
these features are unique to Pluto. It's just that Pluto implemented them
differently to Every Other News And Mail Client Ever (including M-Pro).
Which means that anyone who found Pluto first hates everything else, and
everyone who used another client first (I started out with Pine and Tin on
Solaris, supplemented by NetScape News on Windows NT, before moving to
Freeware Messenger when my RiscPC finally met the internet) loathes Pluto
with a passion.
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