Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Quick project "Scratch for RISC OS on Raspberry Pi"

132 views
Skip to first unread message

Martin Hansen

unread,
Nov 2, 2011, 8:51:49 PM11/2/11
to
Dear All,
I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch
on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.

I'm hoping to find someone interested in the 'few hours work' needed
to port it across. What follows is a description of what is likely to
be
involved kindly provided by- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr
(Merlintec Computers Ltda and Squeak Oversight Board)

Jacel writes...
I enjoyed your report about the 2011 RISC OS London show
http://www.riscoscode.com/Pages/Item0113.html
and have some information about this part:

"What a great start to the day. I'd managed to interview Theo
Markettos
and tweet the interview as it proceeded. Theo is a postdoctoral
researcher at Cambridge University. Although he has no formal direct
connection with the Raspberry Pi foundation he shares offices at the
University with people who do. Keen to make the point that any views
expressed today were his rather than Raspberry Pi's he none-the-less
has
an impressive grasp of both the Raspberry Pi and RISC OS. I spoke to
him
at the Raspberry Pi stall where he presided over the precious alpha
developbent boards one of which was running a software authoring
package
for primary school kids called Scratch. As this is not available for
RISC OS it prompted me ask Theo if he thought RISC OS software was up
to
the job of appealing to users of Raspberry Pi."

Scratch is built on top of Squeak, which runs on many different
platforms. One of those, up to Squeak 3.8 in 2005, was RISC OS.
Unfortunately, Tim Roledge (http://www.rowledge.org/tim/) had been
single handedly keeping this port updated and when he moved on to
other
things nobody replaced him in keeping Squeak current on the RISC OS.

On the other hand, Scratch is built on a much older version of Squeak
(version 2.8 from 2000) so it should only take a few minutes to get it
mostly running on the RISC OS by combining the Virtual Machine from
Squeak 3.8 (ftp://ftp.squeak.org/3.8/riscos/ in the either the basic
or
full version since the VM is exactly the same in both) with all the
files except the VM from
http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Scratch_1.4_Download (the version for any
of
the operating systems will work fine since its executable will not be
used).

Now the reason I said it will mostly work is that the standard Squeak
VM
doesn't include the special Scratch plug-in, which would have to be
compiled from the sources available at
http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code (but while some features
don't
work without the plugin, the basic system does work).

In short, having Scratch fully working on RISC OS is less than an
hour's
work for someone who knows what they are doing and a few day's work
for
someone who doesn't. It certainly is not a reason to not have RISC OS
on
the Raspberry PI.

My best regards,
-- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr
Merlintec Computers Ltda and Squeak Oversight Board

I'm looking into projects for which small amounts of work bring back
quick results, and this one seemed quite promising.
You can get my email from Google or visit the RISCOScode website
or use @RISCOScode on twitter.
Regards,
Martin.

http://www.RISCOScode.com

patric

unread,
Nov 2, 2011, 10:34:03 PM11/2/11
to
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT)
Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:

> Dear All,
> I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch
> on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.
>

Hi Martin

Great idea, loving it! Could we discuss this over @ ROOL though? I do
take it not everyone's following csa and it would be nice to have all
the relevant threads and information in one place.

Just opened "RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi" to get this started:
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/783

Hope we can discuss technical aspects, programming languages,
documentation to go with it and how to handle things in general.

-- patric

Martin Hansen

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:40:28 AM11/3/11
to
> Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> > Dear All,
> > I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch
> > on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.
>
> Hi Martin
> Great idea, loving it! Could we discuss this over @ ROOL though?
> Just opened "RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi" to get this started:https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/783
> -- patric

Hi Partic,
OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set up.
It seemed to be to more of a quick project for one person than a team
effort.
I'm more interested in developing a simple straightforward user pack
to go
with the working Scratch for RISC OS software, rather than doing any
coding myself with this.
(I'm already halfway through two projects that now need to be
accelerated for the Raspberry Pi release)
If someone gets it working I'll run with it, but only then.
Regards,
Martin.

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:39:01 AM11/3/11
to
In article
<5ff5139b-ac54-44fd...@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> > Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> > > Dear All, I'm interested in supporting the programming environment
> > > Scratch on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.
> >
> > Hi Martin Great idea, loving it! Could we discuss this over @ ROOL
> > though? Just opened "RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi" to get this
> > started:https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/783 -- patric

> Hi Partic, OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set
> up.

I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on a
'forum'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Ron Briscoe

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 12:32:48 PM11/3/11
to
In article <522c41e...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi Partic, OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set
> > up.

> I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on a
> 'forum'.

Why not keep in touch via both?

It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable work
on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to keep up
with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

Regards Ron.

patric

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 5:10:40 PM11/3/11
to
On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi Partic,
> OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set up.
> It seemed to be to more of a quick project for one person than a team
> effort.
> I'm more interested in developing a simple straightforward user pack
> to go
> with the working Scratch for RISC OS software, rather than doing any
> coding myself with this.
> (I'm already halfway through two projects that now need to be
> accelerated for the Raspberry Pi release)
> If someone gets it working I'll run with it, but only then.
> Regards,
> Martin.

thanks Martin! Main idea at this point is really to have all info
in one (searchable) place, perhaps as a wiki later. If we all share
our ideas on the forum we'll avoid double effort and maybe even spark
some ideas.

-- patric

Matthew Phillips

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:47:29 AM11/3/11
to
In message <77f484a8-5ff6-4a57...@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
on 3 Nov 2011 Martin Hansen wrote:

> Dear All,
> I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch
> on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.
>
> I'm hoping to find someone interested in the 'few hours work' needed
> to port it across. What follows is a description of what is likely to
> be involved kindly provided by- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr (Merlintec
> Computers Ltda and Squeak Oversight Board)

It may not be quite so straightforward as he suggests: the VM may need
recompiling too to suit the ARMv7 architecture.

But if the RISC OS version source is fully available it shouldn't be a big
job.

--
Matthew Phillips
Durham

Matthew Phillips

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 6:15:51 PM11/3/11
to
In message <77f484a8-5ff6-4a57...@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
on 3 Nov 2011 Martin Hansen wrote:

> I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch on RISC OS
> with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.

It does look quite interesting.

> I'm hoping to find someone interested in the 'few hours work' needed to
> port it across.

I have downloaded version 3.8 of Squeak for RISC OS, which does run on the
Iyonix apparently without problems. Firstly you should note that there are
some limitations. There is no support for sound in the RISC OS port at
present. The performance seems pretty slow also (not that I have ever used
Squeak on any platform so it's hard to compare). Source code for the RISC OS
application is not present in the FTP location linked to. As the stuff dates
from 2005 it probably needs recompiling for use on a BeagleBoard. I'm not
sure what the requirements for the Raspberry Pi's processor are. Is it the
same generation of ARM version?

Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao suggests that Scratch would mostly work if you
combine the virtual machine from Squeak with the other files from Scratch
1.4. He points to a page which offers downloads for Windows, Mac and Linux,
but says it will be fine to use any of these as the executable will not be
used.

Now, unfortunately, the way in which the files are arranged for !Squeak on
RISC OS bears little resemblance to what you find inside the zip file for
Windows or inside the .deb file for Linux. It's hard to know what the
significant files are that might be needed. The plugins are clearly ELF
libraries on Linux and DLLs on Windows. The RISC OS !Squeak has a plugins
directory but I have no idea what kind of file they are, so goodness knows
what needs producing for recompiling the Scratch plugin.

Tim Rowledge, who did the original port, might be able to do this job in a
few hours. I think anyone who has not used Squeak and Scratch (that probably
includes nearly 100% of current RISC OS developers) would take a lot longer
than a few days to get it working.

Perhaps you'd best try contacting Tim and encourage him back to the
community!

--
Matthew Phillips
Durham

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 1:25:49 PM11/3/11
to
In article <522c6d451e...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
<ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522c41e...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Hi Partic, OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've
> > > set up.

> > I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on
> > a 'forum'.

> Why not keep in touch via both?

I can't comment on the ROOL forum specifically, so can only give a general
response.

1) Because I generally find webpage based 'forums' hard/tedious to read.
Matter of what they look like, not the content.

2) Because I generally find they don't give me the options I have with
Pluto for news and find convenient.

To explain further. With newspostings and Pluto I can arrange the text to
show as I find convenient and readable with no space wasted by unwanted
graphics or appearance being dicatated to by how the forum thinks it should
look. Not broken up into 'pages', etc. I can also keep copies of material
I find useful and do content searches on them, etc. I can arrange for
quoting to use factors like colour, etc, as suit me and my reading
requirements.

> It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable
> work on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to
> keep up with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

For an occasional visit, fine. But without going there as a routine I won't
see what is appearing, and won't know - unless it is mentioned here or
elsewhere that I *do* read - there is even something new to check.

If the forum suits others, that is fine for them. But as I said:

> > I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on
> > a 'forum'.

I'm happy enough to spend my time on other things. Have enough to do. But
given that, the above is my view.

David Pitt

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 5:20:16 AM11/4/11
to
In message <522c721...@audiomisc.co.uk>
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <522c6d451e...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
> <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>> It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable
>> work on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to
>> keep up with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

> For an occasional visit, fine. But without going there as a routine I won't
> see what is appearing, and won't know - unless it is mentioned here or
> elsewhere that I *do* read - there is even something new to check.

There is RSS :-

http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

cfe...@freeremoveuk.com.invalid

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 6:03:53 AM11/4/11
to
In message <9e81c92c5...@iyonix.home>
David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <522c721...@audiomisc.co.uk>
> Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <522c6d451e...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
> > <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
[snip]

>
Have you an web address of a rss reader?

Thanks
--
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

Tony Moore

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 8:21:15 AM11/4/11
to
On 4 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
'Hermes has suffered a fatal error and cannot continue'

Does anyone else see that error message?

Tony



David Pitt

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 8:42:54 AM11/4/11
to
In message <3813da2c52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>
I did with Hermes 2.56, see Hermes mailing list 2nd July 2011.

2.56c sorted it, courtesy of Alan Wrigley.

Hermes may have moved on since then, a subsequent thread referred to
Hermes 2.61 which broke RSS. Alan was dealing.

Tony Moore

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 9:14:21 AM11/4/11
to
On 4 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <3813da2c52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>
> Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 4 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > There is RSS :-
> > >
> > > http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss
>
> > 'Hermes has suffered a fatal error and cannot continue'
>
> > Does anyone else see that error message?
>
> I did with Hermes 2.56, see Hermes mailing list 2nd July 2011.
>
> 2.56c sorted it, courtesy of Alan Wrigley.

OK, thanks. I'll talk to Alan.

Tony



Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 9:23:41 AM11/4/11
to
In article <9e81c92c5...@iyonix.home>, David Pitt
Many things exist. Including usenet and email lists. Also Twitter,
Facebook, and whatever is the latest 'must have' new-wheel-for-old fashion
accessory. :-)

But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or 'rss') that makes
them necessary or overwhelmingly preferrable as a replacement for usenet
(or an email list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point given the
disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

Russell Hafter News

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 10:38:23 AM11/4/11
to
In article <522cdfc...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
<no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or
> 'rss') that makes them necessary or overwhelmingly
> preferrable as a replacement for usenet (or an email
> list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point given the
> disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

I suspect that it is (much) easier for the poster, because
(s)he can access a forum from a handheld device using http.
Usenet is, by and large, not accessible that way.

(This came up during the first, really major, outage this
year at PurleyHosting, when many of us here had no idea that
regualr posts were made to Twitter for, according to Neil
spellings, just that reason.)

The fact that postings to a forum - at least the ones I have
looked at, usually when trying to find an answer to some
Windows problem - are IMHO approx = incomprehensible is
irrelevant.

It is *so* much easier to follow a discussion in a
newsgroup, using a properly designed, threaded newsreader.

But I suspect that counts for nothing to those who seem to
spend just about every waking moment with their eyes glued
to their tiny screen.

Anyway, I suspect that usenet just is just not cool, though
I doubt whether I would be reagarded as capable of making
such a decision.

Another factor may be that usenet is hardly taught in
schools?

When in my teaching days I went on my first course in using
the internet - Netscape 1 etc - we were told very little
about usenet. AFAIR 1) we really did not need to know and 2)
it was full of porn. We were shown one posting, which had a
binary attachement of, we were told, a naked woman, though
the picture was only downloaded to the shoulders and then
aborted.

When, a couple of years later I found myself teaching a
course which included "An introduction to usenet" I was,
thanks to Argonet, rather more knowledgeable, but the school
had no newsfeed and the only way I could it was via a web
browser and dejanews.

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
Message has been deleted

David Pitt

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 11:35:02 AM11/4/11
to
In message <522cdfc...@audiomisc.co.uk>
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <9e81c92c5...@iyonix.home>, David Pitt
> <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip - ROOL's forum]

>> There is RSS :-

>> http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

> Many things exist. Including usenet and email lists. Also Twitter,
> Facebook, and whatever is the latest 'must have' new-wheel-for-old fashion
> accessory. :-)

> But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or 'rss') that makes
> them necessary or overwhelmingly preferrable as a replacement for usenet
> (or an email list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point given the
> disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

I suppose trends are not always quality led!

Usenet does seem to be in general decline across the board, being
unmoderated it is open to spam, trolling and vileness, I guess people
just get fed up of all that and give up on it.

Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join and
therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a
RISC OS thing, I have never come across one in another area.

So forums then, moderated in that registration is required, easy to
use in that all that is needed is a browser, no faffing around with
email or usenet clients.

I would be with Jim in preferring usenet or mailing lists but time
moves on and they are less and less the way of it now.

Brian Debenham

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 12:03:21 PM11/4/11
to
In article <00d1eb2c5...@iyonix.home>,
David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join and
> therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a RISC
> OS thing, I have never come across one in another area.
>

There are loads of them about. I'm subscribed to one for remote Luton Town
supporters, one on Belgian cafes and various CAMRA mailing lists. Yahoo
groups are basically mailing lists with an added online element.

Brian

--
Brian Debenham
br...@bdebenham.co.uk
StrongARMed and dangerous !
Chelmsford CAMRA: http://www.chelmsfordcamra.org.uk/

Russell Hafter News

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 12:20:50 PM11/4/11
to
In article <00d1eb2c5...@iyonix.home>, David Pitt
<pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has
> to join and therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in
> saying they are mainly a RISC OS thing, I have never come
> across one in another area.

That does surprise me!

I susbscribe to two (both run by yahoo) that have absolutely
nothing to do with computing.

1. A list run for the benefit of a charity I am involved
with, though only a subset of members susbscribe. My brother
and sister are both much more closely involved with the
organisation, but they do not subsribe. One of my nieces
does.

2. A list run for fans of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover
novels.

In fact, a quck look at Yahoo Groups homepage lists 17
categories of group, of which just one is computers and
internet.

<hhtp://groups.yahoo.com>

Computers and internet has 13 subcategories, subcategory
'hardware' includes 49 922 groups! No doubt some will be
moribund, or almost. But I cannot imagine that they all are.

Maybe you should have a quick look!

David Pitt

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 12:32:17 PM11/4/11
to
In message <522cee6...@bdebenham.co.uk>
Brian Debenham <br...@bdebenham.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <00d1eb2c5...@iyonix.home>,
> David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>> Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join and
>> therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a RISC
>> OS thing, I have never come across one in another area.

> There are loads of them about. I'm subscribed to one for remote Luton Town
> supporters, one on Belgian cafes and various CAMRA mailing lists. Yahoo
> groups are basically mailing lists with an added online element.

Or even http://forum.camra.org.uk/

Very pleased to see RISC OS put to such good use :-
http://www.chelmsfordcamra.org.uk/

I feel a terrible thirst ...

Chris Shepheard

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 2:52:51 PM11/4/11
to
In message <00d1eb2c5...@iyonix.home>
David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join and
> therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a
> RISC OS thing, I have never come across one in another area.

Mailing lists for technology subjects are very widespread and can be
set up for free via freelists.org.

Just take a look there at the number of lists they host. Set up is
easy (even with Netsurf) and so is management and moderation.

Chris

--

Chris Shepheard writing as himself
chris.s...@chrispics.co.uk
from far west Surrey www.chrispics.co.uk

Stuart

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 6:49:03 PM11/4/11
to
In article <8d7fcd2c5...@cferris.freeuk.com>,
<cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid> wrote:
> > http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss
> >

> Have you an web address of a rss reader?

There is !Ticker by Darren Salt

http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.apps.html

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org



Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 6:57:12 PM11/4/11
to
David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join

Not always.

> and therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a
> RISC OS thing,

You're wrong...

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV
and: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/history-listserv.asp
and: http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

druck

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 11:50:41 AM11/5/11
to
On 04/11/2011 14:38, Russell Hafter News wrote:
> When in my teaching days I went on my first course in using
> the internet - Netscape 1 etc - we were told very little
> about usenet. AFAIR 1) we really did not need to know and 2)
> it was full of porn. We were shown one posting, which had a
> binary attachement of, we were told, a naked woman, though
> the picture was only downloaded to the shoulders and then
> aborted.

Ah those were the days! Porn was much more fun when it tool 2 minutes to
download an image. You'd sit there eagerly waiting for a nipple to
appear - or was that just me?

---druck

Brian Jordan

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 12:57:40 PM11/5/11
to
In article <j93m0b$1o8$1...@dont-email.me>,


[Snip]

>You'd sit there eagerly waiting for a nipple to appear - or was that
> just me?

> ---druck

No, it was a nipple as I remember it.

--
______________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
From somewhere in North Hampshire. England. UK.
______________________________________________________________________

Stuart

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 12:43:45 PM11/5/11
to
In article <j93m0b$1o8$1...@dont-email.me>,
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> Ah those were the days! Porn was much more fun when it tool 2 minutes to
> download an image. You'd sit there eagerly waiting for a nipple to
> appear - or was that just me?

I don't remember you appearing in anything I downloaded!

:-)

Dev

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 2:55:47 PM11/5/11
to
In article <522d75f1...@argonet.co.uk>,
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <j93m0b$1o8$1...@dont-email.me>,
> druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> > Ah those were the days! Porn was much more fun when it tool 2
> > minutes to download an image. You'd sit there eagerly waiting for
> > a nipple to appear - or was that just me?

> I don't remember you appearing in anything I downloaded!

> :-)

Not many 2 minute tools either. ;-)

--
Dev

Om Namah Shivaya | Om Sthanane namaha

Dev

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 2:54:22 PM11/5/11
to
In article <522d7737ccb...@btinternet.com>,
Brian Jordan <brian....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <j93m0b$1o8$1...@dont-email.me>,

>
> [Snip]

> >You'd sit there eagerly waiting for a nipple to appear - or was that
> > just me?

> > ---druck

> No, it was a nipple as I remember it.

Although it did have an aureole so it might have been druck...

--
Dev

Om Namah Shivaya | Om Avya-graya namaha

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 6:00:55 PM11/5/11
to
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <mpro.lu5rrc...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
> Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
> wrote:
> > > Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join
>
> > Not always.
>
> All the ones I am currently subscribed to are. This includes Homebrew_PCB,
> Electronics_101, 7x12minlathe and several other engineering groups.

Listserver lists needn't be public. One might run a set of such lists
within a corporate intranet. If you like, all that would be needed to
authenticate someone's ability to use a list would be that their corporate
email address was one that was applicable to that company, which it would
be. If the server was invisible to the outside world there wouldn't even be
any need for that check.



Some newsgroups, eg bit.- are mirrors of the contents of listserv lists.
See eg: http://www.ibiblio.org/usenet-i/hier-s/bit.html)
It wasn't until quite recently that the list administrators for the lists I
use bothered to enforce subscription, because the newsgroups themselves were
open to anyone. And once they did start enforcing subscription there were
always some posts that only showed up on the newsgroups which is/was a
nuisance.

For example one can access an IBM mainframe systems programming group either
via: bit.listserv.ibm-main or IBM-MAIN-subscribe-request (at) BAMA.UA.EDU

patric

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 6:38:53 PM11/5/11
to
With all this talk how great usenet is and all I still
think signal to noise ratio is an issue. Not that this
would be unknown to internet forums/fora, though
moderating can certainly ease the problem.
Let's say I wanted to look up scratch on RISC OS. Would
I *really* have to go through 30 replies to find out that
not a single one has anything whatsoever to do with the
original question? Can't see how a threaded view would
be of any help. The only thing to give me a quick view
seems to be google groups, which somehow defies the
purpose.

Curious if I'm missing something

-- patric

Ron Briscoe

unread,
Nov 5, 2011, 6:38:31 PM11/5/11
to
In article <20111105223853....@invalid.net>,
:-)).

> Curious if I'm missing something

I don't think so.

Regards Ron.

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 6, 2011, 4:40:55 AM11/6/11
to
In article <20111105223853....@invalid.net>, patric
<pat...@invalid.net> wrote:
> With all this talk how great usenet is and all I still think signal to
> noise ratio is an issue.

It is quite possible to have a moderated group (or email list if preferred.
Easier to set up, I suspect). Isn't comp.sys.acorn.announce one?

> Not that this would be unknown to internet forums/fora, though
> moderating can certainly ease the problem. Let's say I wanted to look up
> scratch on RISC OS. Would I *really* have to go through 30 replies to
> find out that not a single one has anything whatsoever to do with the
> original question?

One of the advantages of usenet and email is that you can decide when to
download headers, and when to download full items.

Another is that you can use software like Pluto to do searches though the
body of text as well as other parts of items, scanning for specific things.

e.g. I'm currently writing about a topic which about 10 specialists are
discussing with me via a 'cc list'. I can select and search their responses
for relevant snippets when I want to write about each part of the 'story'.
Pluto then generates a new selected list, and highlights the items as I
step though. Also easy to export bits to quote, etc.

As was said in the previous thread: I can see that we now have a 'new
generation' for which internet == webbrowser may return TRUE, and who use
'web parallel' methods on their mobile devices, etc. But that looks a lot
like usenet being dismissed by ignorance, not on the basis of an informed
decision. If the aim of things like Raspberry Pi is to get people to learn
and thus become able to make informed choices, maybe part of that is they
should also be aware of the alternatives to whatever is the latest
'fashion' in comms interface.
Message has been deleted

Dave Higton

unread,
Nov 6, 2011, 11:27:19 AM11/6/11
to
In message <522c41e...@audiomisc.co.uk>
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article
> <5ff5139b-ac54-44fd...@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> > > Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > Dear All, I'm interested in supporting the programming environment
> > > > Scratch on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.
> > >
> > > Hi Martin Great idea, loving it! Could we discuss this over @ ROOL
> > > though? Just opened "RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi" to get this
> > > started:https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/783 -- patric
>
> > Hi Partic, OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set
> > up.
>
> I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on a
> 'forum'.

The forum we're discussing has two (big, by my estimation) advantages
over usenet:

1) People behave better there (so far, and long may that last!);

2) It's a web site, and therefore readily available to me on my
smart phone.

Dave

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 3:48:23 AM11/7/11
to
In article <6146f82d52...@dsl.pipex.com>, Dave Higton
Usenet groups can be moderated.

> 2) It's a web site, and therefore readily available to me on my smart
> phone.

Many usenet groups and email lists are also duplicated by 'websites'.

trevj

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 7:12:41 AM11/7/11
to
On Nov 3, 10:15 pm, Matthew Phillips <spam20...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> [snip] I'm not
> sure what the requirements for the Raspberry Pi's processor are.  Is it the
> same generation of ARM version?
> [snip]

Not quite, it's ARM11 which is ARMv6:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ARM_microprocessor_cores

But AIUI recompilation for ARMv7 is also fine for ARMv6.

Ron Briscoe

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 12:58:19 PM11/7/11
to
In article <522e521...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > 1) People behave better there (so far, and long may that last!);

> Usenet groups can be moderated.

Most of the c.s.a. groups are not though.

> > 2) It's a web site, and therefore readily available to me on my smart
> > phone.

> Many usenet groups and email lists are also duplicated by 'websites'.

I'm afraid that you missed my point earlier. Which is that if the people who
are doing the work on RO5 prefer to talk about it on web forums then you
have to read about it on those forums. That is if you wish to keep up with
the latest developments ;-).

I see that you use Pluto :-). Use its excellent search facility to see how
many posts have been made to any of the c.s.a. groups in the past 6 months
by Jeffrey Lee for instance.

Regards Ron.

Ste (news)

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 1:14:29 PM11/7/11
to
In article <522cdfc...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or 'rss') that makes
> them necessary or overwhelmingly preferrable as a replacement for usenet
> (or an email list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point given the
> disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

Here are some advantages:

* Forum posts are visible to people who aren't "subscribed"

* Forum posts are scraped by Google and associated with ROOL so easily found
in searches (usenet groups searches are a separate interface)

* We can moderate the forums to remove spam

* You can embed images in forum posts

* You can put formatting in forum posts which sometimes aids readability

* The ROOL site is the hub of RISC OS development, so having discussions in
an arcane location to which most people do not have access is not going to
be useful for the vast majority of the interested followers in the
(growing) RISC OS community, the forum is what they want and expect

I like usenet and I'm not anti-comp.sys.acorn.* but I'd like to think I'm
sufficiently open-minded to appreciate that there is a place for everything.

Thanks,

Steve

--
Steve Revill @ Home
Note: All opinions expressed herein are my own.

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 1:28:20 PM11/7/11
to
"Ste (news)" <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> Here are some advantages:
> * The ROOL site is the hub of RISC OS development, so having discussions
> in an arcane location to which most people do not have access is not
> going to be useful for the vast majority of the interested followers in
> the (growing) RISC OS community, the forum is what they want and expect
[snip]

And you can followup on old threads, like 'you know that bug I was chasing
last year, well...'. Plus it's easier to keep topics together in the
various sub-fora.

The main annoyance I have with the ROOL forum is there doesn't seem to be a
mechanism to email notifications if someone's posted on a thread you're
interested in. That makes a forum a lot more useful if you're an irregular
visitor.

> I like usenet and I'm not anti-comp.sys.acorn.* but I'd like to think I'm
> sufficiently open-minded to appreciate that there is a place for everything.

Seconded.

Theo
Message has been deleted

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 6:27:10 PM11/7/11
to
Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> There's RSS available to follow threads.

Ah, good point. Maybe I should set up RSS-to-email or something...

Theo

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 8, 2011, 7:22:00 AM11/8/11
to
In article <522e85e...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
<st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> In article <522cdfc...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or 'rss') that
> > makes them necessary or overwhelmingly preferrable as a replacement
> > for usenet (or an email list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point
> > given the disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

> Here are some advantages:

> * Forum posts are visible to people who aren't "subscribed"

Ditto for usenet and open lists since they can be accessed in other ways.

> * Forum posts are scraped by Google and associated with ROOL so easily
> found in searches (usenet groups searches are a separate interface)

I find usenet comments via Google as well.

> * We can moderate the forums to remove spam

Ditto for usenet and email lists.

> * You can embed images in forum posts

Some usenet groups and email lists also allow this as attachment, or just
shove in a url.

> * You can put formatting in forum posts which sometimes aids readability

But which may end up making it harder to read for others whose eyesight and
preferences aren't as you expect.

> * The ROOL site is the hub of RISC OS development, so having discussions
> in an arcane location to which most people do not have access is not
> going to be useful for the vast majority of the interested followers
> in the (growing) RISC OS community, the forum is what they want and
> expect

That does come out as "those involved prefer this, so we do what we
prefer".

As I already pointed out, that may be fine for those who prefer it. But
some others (including myself) have different preferences. My understanding
from observation is that a list can have both a 'forum' presentation *and*
be an email list. So given that many of the 'advantages' you quote come
down to 'usenet and email also do that', why not consider that *readers*
might not all share the same preference as yourself as to means and allow a
wider diversity of audience to join in as *they* prefer?

> I like usenet and I'm not anti-comp.sys.acorn.* but I'd like to think
> I'm sufficiently open-minded to appreciate that there is a place for
> everything.

I agree. That's why I raised these questions. :-) So far as I can see, the
discussion could have an email/usenet side as well. Must admit none of the
reasons I've been given seem an 'objective' reason for choosing a forum and
ignoring usenet/email. The only reasons seem to be "we prefer this". Fine
for a self-selected group. But what about being more 'open'?... :-)

I presume, BTW, that you've checked that the forum is fine for blind
readers?

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 8, 2011, 6:36:43 PM11/8/11
to
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522e85e...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
> <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> > * We can moderate the forums to remove spam
>
> Ditto for usenet and email lists.

Post-publishing moderation works an awful lot better than pre-publishing,
the only type available on Usenet or mailing lists.

> > * You can embed images in forum posts
>
> Some usenet groups and email lists also allow this as attachment, or just
> shove in a url.

Indeed, but things like linking are a bit clumsy on Usenet (you can't have
hyperlinks, only a list of URLs). Attachments are generally frowned upon in
most newsgroups, and mailing lists make people download them whether they
want to or not.

> > * You can put formatting in forum posts which sometimes aids readability
>
> But which may end up making it harder to read for others whose eyesight and
> preferences aren't as you expect.

Large fonts, contrasting colours and screen readers go some way towards this.

> As I already pointed out, that may be fine for those who prefer it. But
> some others (including myself) have different preferences. My understanding
> from observation is that a list can have both a 'forum' presentation *and*
> be an email list. So given that many of the 'advantages' you quote come
> down to 'usenet and email also do that', why not consider that *readers*
> might not all share the same preference as yourself as to means and allow a
> wider diversity of audience to join in as *they* prefer?

I have no objection if you want to start a suitable thread here, but be
aware that there is the risk of duplication. It is rather difficult to keep
track of a conversation which is being held in two places at once and some
contributors are only hearing half the people, and many will not want to
repeat themselves. So you may miss out on some things.

Also note that we're also using the ROOL wiki:
https://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentation/show/Raspberry%20Pi%20Roadmap
https://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentation/show/Raspberry%20Pi%20disc%20image%20proposals
which are facilities not available on Usenet or a mailing list.

Theo

Ste (news)

unread,
Nov 8, 2011, 7:14:54 PM11/8/11
to
In article <M+f*tP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Or email the ROOL webmaster and see what he has to say.

Ta,

Jess

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 5:05:03 AM11/9/11
to
In message <M+f*tP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
I have just set up my messenger pro to collect the RSS feeds (Although
I think it is actually Hermes that does all the work).

I works quite well (after getting the update from RComp), but neither
threading or quoting work.

I *think* that for quoting to work the feed would need chevrons added
to quoted parts, just like normal mail/news, and have sent a request
to the webmaster.

I think threading would probably require a change to Hermes.

--
Jess Iyonix

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 4:33:40 AM11/9/11
to
In article <N+f*c9...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
<theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <522e85e...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
> > <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> > > * We can moderate the forums to remove spam
> >
> > Ditto for usenet and email lists.

> Post-publishing moderation works an awful lot better than
> pre-publishing, the only type available on Usenet or mailing lists.

I note your opinion, but wonder if you haven't heard that usenet postings
can be cancelled, etc. Of course. whatever the method - web or other - the
reader who reads something *before* a "post-publishing" removal can keep
their own copy. Its one of the freedoms a reader has - and IMHO should
have.

> > > * You can embed images in forum posts
> >
> > Some usenet groups and email lists also allow this as attachment, or
> > just shove in a url.

> Indeed, but things like linking are a bit clumsy on Usenet (you can't
> have hyperlinks, only a list of URLs).

You perhaps haven't noticed that some groups/lists allow 'HTML' <sic>
attachments or bodies? I'm not personally a fan of this, but if people want
what it offers, it does exist.


> Attachments are generally
> frowned upon in most newsgroups, and mailing lists make people download
> them whether they want to or not.

Again it depends entirely on how the group/list is set up and run.

> > > * You can put formatting in forum posts which sometimes aids
> > > readability
> >
> > But which may end up making it harder to read for others whose
> > eyesight and preferences aren't as you expect.

> Large fonts, contrasting colours and screen readers go some way towards
> this.

Giving each individual reader the freedom to chose all these things for
themselve takes you the rest of the way. :-)

Ste (news)

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 10:06:58 AM11/9/11
to
In article <522f5de...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> Giving each individual reader the freedom to chose all these things for
> themselve takes you the rest of the way. :-)

In that case, perhaps we should distribute all of the RISC OS 5
conversations over a plethora of mediums so every user is happy using their
preferred mechanism and pretty much nobody has any idea of even half of
what's going on...
Message has been deleted

Kevin Wells

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 12:09:47 PM11/9/11
to
In message <0cc9602...@itworkshop.invalid>
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In message <M+f*tP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>> There's RSS available to follow threads.
>
>> Ah, good point. Maybe I should set up RSS-to-email or something...
>
>I have just set up my messenger pro to collect the RSS feeds (Although
>I think it is actually Hermes that does all the work).
>
>I works quite well (after getting the update from RComp), but neither
>threading or quoting work.
>
>I *think* that for quoting to work the feed would need chevrons added
>to quoted parts, just like normal mail/news, and have sent a request
>to the webmaster.

I don't think that is part of the rss standards, generally rss feeds are
along the lines of <tag>some text</tag>.
>
>I think threading would probably require a change to Hermes.
>


--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/publicflags/

Steve Fryatt

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 2:33:03 PM11/9/11
to
On 9 Nov, Jim Lesurf wrote in message
<522f5de...@audiomisc.co.uk>:

> In article <N+f*c9...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
> <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Post-publishing moderation works an awful lot better than
> > pre-publishing, the only type available on Usenet or mailing lists.
>
> I note your opinion, but wonder if you haven't heard that usenet postings
> can be cancelled, etc.

In principle, although few (if any) news servers have supported this for
many years.

> Of course. whatever the method - web or other - the reader who reads
> something *before* a "post-publishing" removal can keep their own copy.
> Its one of the freedoms a reader has - and IMHO should have.

Yes, but that's not usually why post-publishing moderation is used.

[snip]

> > Large fonts, contrasting colours and screen readers go some way towards
> > this.
>
> Giving each individual reader the freedom to chose all these things for
> themselve takes you the rest of the way. :-)

Forums give users the choice of how to configure things, too.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

Jess

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 4:01:49 PM11/9/11
to
In message <d3ab872f...@talktalk.net>
Kevin Wells <kevin...@talktalk.net> wrote:

>>I *think* that for quoting to work the feed would need chevrons added
>>to quoted parts, just like normal mail/news, and have sent a request
>>to the webmaster.

> I don't think that is part of the rss standards, generally rss feeds are
> along the lines of <tag>some text</tag>.

I am just thinking of each line of quoted text starting with &gt;

>>I think threading would probably require a change to Hermes.

On further thought, I think it could also be done with a modification
to the feed.

--
Jess Iyonix

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 11:39:14 AM11/9/11
to
In article <522f7c6...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
<st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> In article <522f5de...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > Giving each individual reader the freedom to chose all these things
> > for themselve takes you the rest of the way. :-)

> In that case, perhaps we should distribute all of the RISC OS 5
> conversations over a plethora of mediums so every user is happy using
> their preferred mechanism and pretty much nobody has any idea of even
> half of what's going on...

Interesting example of combining a sweeping over-generalisation with an
attemped inference that doesn't have to follow. :-)

Back in reality, though, a programme can be on the iPlayer, FM, DAB, etc
without that meaning what you try to infer about it.

Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 9, 2011, 11:43:54 AM11/9/11
to
In article <mpro.luegqp...@ypical.nospam.invalid>, Fred Bambrough
<fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> In message <522f5de...@audiomisc.co.uk> Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> > I note your opinion, but wonder if you haven't heard that usenet
> > postings can be cancelled, etc.

> Only in principle. In practise I understand most servers don't support
> this.

Just as once something has been up on the web you may find that someone has
decided to keep their own copy.

The point about the arguments people are putting forwards is that it
becomes clear they are starting from the presumption "I prefer the forum"
and then trying to provide a convincing reason for everyone else having to
agree with them. Alas, when examined, that tends to fall over.

I can understand each person wishes to do things as they prefer. If I
didn't, I would have stopped using RO years ago. :-] However I don't
extend that to assuming everyone else should *only* use RO just because I
prefer it for many purpose. I prefer people to have a range of choices open
to them.

Dev

unread,
Nov 10, 2011, 4:58:20 AM11/10/11
to
In article <522f854...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
<no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <mpro.luegqp...@ypical.nospam.invalid>, Fred
> Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> > In message <522f5de...@audiomisc.co.uk> Jim Lesurf
> > <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> > > I note your opinion, but wonder if you haven't heard that usenet
> > > postings can be cancelled, etc.

> > Only in principle. In practise I understand most servers don't
> > support this.

> Just as once something has been up on the web you may find that
> someone has decided to keep their own copy.

> The point about the arguments people are putting forwards is that it
> becomes clear they are starting from the presumption "I prefer the
> forum" and then trying to provide a convincing reason for everyone
> else having to agree with them. Alas, when examined, that tends to
> fall over.

> I can understand each person wishes to do things as they prefer. If I
> didn't, I would have stopped using RO years ago. :-] However I don't
> extend that to assuming everyone else should *only* use RO just
> because I prefer it for many purpose. I prefer people to have a range
> of choices open to them.

> Slainte,

The best reason for using newsgroups as opposed to dedicated mailing
lists or web fora is that usenet is a general medium open to all and
the threads are there to draw in anyone even slightly curious about the
subject, whereas other media require an already high degree of interest
in order to search them out, subscribe, etc.

Shanti.

--
Dev

Om Namah Shivaya | Om Traemurthaye namaha

Ste (news)

unread,
Nov 10, 2011, 7:53:20 AM11/10/11
to
In article <522f84d...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> Back in reality

Yes, back in reality, it seems your are beating a lone drum, even here on
this usenet thread.

My original point stands; there are the forums at the ROOL site and they are
a more appropriate location for discussions about RISC OS on the RPi. That
is the last I will say on the subject.

Thanks,
Message has been deleted

Jess

unread,
Nov 10, 2011, 9:06:14 AM11/10/11
to
In message <522ff40...@revi11.plus.com>
"Ste (news)" <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:

> My original point stands; there are the forums at the ROOL site and they are
> a more appropriate location for discussions about RISC OS on the RPi. That
> is the last I will say on the subject.

Can pluto use the RSS feeds like messenger pro can?

--
Jess Iyonix

Chris Johnson

unread,
Nov 10, 2011, 10:04:24 AM11/10/11
to
In article <bab3fa2...@itworkshop.invalid>,
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Can pluto use the RSS feeds like messenger pro can?

Yes.

--
Chris Johnson
Message has been deleted

Stuart

unread,
Nov 10, 2011, 10:40:59 AM11/10/11
to
In article <bab3fa2...@itworkshop.invalid>,
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > My original point stands; there are the forums at the ROOL site and they are
> > a more appropriate location for discussions about RISC OS on the RPi. That
> > is the last I will say on the subject.

> Can pluto use the RSS feeds like messenger pro can?

No idea but I have !Ticker when I can be bothered to set it going.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org



Jim Lesurf

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 4:07:17 AM11/11/11
to
In article <522ffa23...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
<Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522ff40...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
> <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> > > Back in reality

> > Yes, back in reality, it seems your are beating a lone drum, even here
> > on this usenet thread.

> Not entirely, I hate Forums too but I know it's a lost cause arguing
> against them so I just go with what I read in mailing lists and on
> Usenet.

Yes. I've noticed that others have taken that 'choice', and decided there
is not much point in saying that they would perfer an alternative to be
available.. I've also largely given up trying to question the way people
have resigned themselves to 'going with the flow'. But I thought it worth
at least raising the issue in the hope people would actually think about
it. And even realise it is quite possible for a 'forum' to also parallel as
something like an email list. So give more genuine 'choice'. Alas, many
minds seem closed.

Ste (news)

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 9:25:10 AM11/11/11
to
In article <5230632...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> So give more genuine 'choice'. Alas, many minds seem closed.

On the contrary. If you are volunteering your time to implement the forum to
newsgroup gateway, then go for it! If you don't or can't, feel free to
submit a feature request into the ROOL issue tracker and someone else might
do it - but don't be surprised if people see it as low priority when
compared to, say, implementing an SD card filing system or improving the USB
stack.

Tim Hill

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 10:35:41 AM11/11/11
to
In article <522ee97...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > * We can moderate the forums to remove spam

> Ditto for usenet and email lists.

We mustn't forget moderated facebook 'pages' set up by companies. Join
hTC's and post the slightest criticism and you will find your posts
disappear. Unless you are prepared to say they are wonderful in all ways
and not say that their support is a pile of dingoes' kidneys forget it.

I don't think I will get another hTC phone as what they do isn't
moderation, it's censorship. Deleting obscene posts is one thing..

hTC support is sh1t (still waiting for Peep and Friend Stream which
works) and they are w@nkers for not even acknowledging this.

It is only when moderated mailing lists et al are moderated badly or
(e.g.) there are server troubles will we resort to other means of
communicating..

Vive la usenet!!!

--
Tim Hill of timil.com . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@

... "God, the best maker of marriages, combine your hearts in one !" Henry V, Act v, Sc.2

Tim Hill

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 10:47:10 AM11/11/11
to
In article <522e84712b...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
<ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522e521...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 1) People behave better there (so far, and long may that last!);

> > Usenet groups can be moderated.

> Most of the c.s.a. groups are not though.

I know: let's ask druck to moderate them all....he nearly does anyway.

;-D

--
Tim Hill of timil.com . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@

... "How hard it is for women to keep counsel !" Jul Caesar, Act ii, Sc.3

Dave Symes

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 2:01:48 PM11/11/11
to
In article <5230632...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522ffa23...@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
> <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <522ff40...@revi11.plus.com>, Ste (news)
> > <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:
> > > > Back in reality

> > > Yes, back in reality, it seems your are beating a lone drum, even
> > > here on this usenet thread.

> > Not entirely, I hate Forums too but I know it's a lost cause arguing
> > against them so I just go with what I read in mailing lists and on
> > Usenet.

> Yes. I've noticed that others have taken that 'choice', and decided
> there is not much point in saying that they would perfer an alternative
> to be available.. I've also largely given up trying to question the way
> people have resigned themselves to 'going with the flow'. But I thought
> it worth at least raising the issue in the hope people would actually
> think about it. And even realise it is quite possible for a 'forum' to
> also parallel as something like an email list. So give more genuine
> 'choice'. Alas, many minds seem closed.

> Slainte,

> Jim

Jim, I can be added to the list of folks who dislike the Forum method,
unfortunately, as you mention... I've just about given up the moan, as
many of the subjects I read/contribute to, are Forum only.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 11, 2011, 9:04:35 PM11/11/11
to
Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes. I've noticed that others have taken that 'choice', and decided there
> is not much point in saying that they would perfer an alternative to be
> available.. I've also largely given up trying to question the way people
> have resigned themselves to 'going with the flow'. But I thought it worth
> at least raising the issue in the hope people would actually think about
> it. And even realise it is quite possible for a 'forum' to also parallel as
> something like an email list. So give more genuine 'choice'. Alas, many
> minds seem closed.

I'll reply to your similar point from the RPCEmu mailing list, to avoid
derailing that list.

Can I be the first to say that I'm not keen on forums, and much prefer the
user interface of Usenet. However...

'Choice' depends what you're trying to do. Businesses publish phone
numbers, fax numbers, email addresses, postal addresses, websites, Facebook,
Twitter, etc, etc because this is a 1:1 conversation. You ask a question,
someone replies. In that case the medium doesn't matter. And also there's
usually someone paying for people to respond to all these media.

But most of what we're discussing here is a group conversation. Now, group
conversations down the pub are great, and if you don't like one pub you can
find another - nobody's insisting there's only one place you can discuss
something. If you want to banter, that's fine.

However, what we're doing is more like project management. If you're trying
to keep a team up to date with what's going on, having a single conversation
rather than dozens of separate ones means everyone is up to speed. So that
means a way any voice can be heard by all participants.

So, if you want to have that sort of conversation you need to keep it in one
medium, or media that are easily converted (an email to post gateway
wouldn't work very well).

Now, some advantage of forums for 'project management' type goals:
1. All relevant material is kept together where it's possible to
exhaustively read it if you so desire
2. The ability to subdivide the topic up into really specific areas, and be
able to only read what you're interested in.
3. The ability to have slow-burning threads on those specific areas (eg one
post per month) without them getting swamped by busier threads
4. The easy ability to refer to threads from years back that might still be
relevant
5. The ability to read any thread without any commitment (login,
subscription, etc)
6. The tendency to stay focused on the topic of discussion, rather than
random thread drift (great for the pub, not so great for a business meeting)

The biggest flaw is that forums are really terrible for following on a
regular basis. RSS helps here, thought it isn't perfect.

There's nothing here that can't be done with private newsgroups, mailing
lists with filtering of Subject: headers, etc, etc. But it means each
reader has to do quite a bit of work to get it set up nicely, whereas on a
forum a lot of the work only has to be done once. I have the ability to
create mail to news gateways, and read lots of mailing lists as newsgroups.
But I just don't do it, because life's too short. If there was some way to
distribute a settings file that would set up a user's mail/news client with
all these tweaks that would be great, but there isn't. And so the system
falls down because most other people aren't going to spend ages setting up
the system to their exact preferences. Simply downloading an NNTP client
these days is too much for many people.

So we are where we are. If anyone feels like implementing something to
improve the situation (not talking about implementing it, actually getting
on with it), feel free. It isn't something we can work on ourselves as time
for many of us is short, and we have more pressing priorities - like
actually getting RISC OS on Raspberry Pi out the door.

Theo

Vince M Hudd

unread,
Nov 12, 2011, 8:16:10 AM11/12/11
to
Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <522ff40...@revi11.plus.com>,
> Ste (news) <st...@revi11.plus.com> wrote:

> > > Back in reality

> > Yes, back in reality, it seems your are beating a lone drum, even here
> > on this usenet thread.

> Not entirely, I hate Forums too but I know it's a lost cause arguing
> against them so I just go with what I read in mailing lists and on Usenet.

As someone willing and able to host RISC OS based mailing lists, I think
it's time to stick my oar in. There's an obvious parallel here with the
Virtual Acorn support forum situation (and subsequent mailing list) - and a
big difference as well.

The parallel is that at one point there was the VA forum, and some people
expressed a preference for a mailing list, and a discussion ensued on the
csa groups - not entirely unlike this one.

In the end, I set up a mailing list - which is currently silent, but at
times has been very busy.

The difference?

With VirtualAcorn, users of the software can read the mailing list, and are
often able to provide assistance to other users who post problems to the
list - just as can happen on the forum. As a bonus, Aaron Timbrell also
reads the list (or he did; I haven't checked recently - but, as I said, the
list is silent at the moment anyway) and sometimes posts replies. In this
case, the mailing list works to complement the forum.

This is considerably less the case with the ROOL forums. While there may be
some - possibly rare - threads in which general users might require help and
be able to receive that help from other general users, the main focus of the
forum is in the further development of RISC OS and porting it to new
platforms. As such, it all really needs to be kept in one place, so that the
people involved in actually doing the work (or administering it) don't have
to check various different places to keep a track of things. A mailing list
wouldn't complement the forums in the slightest - I'm inclined to think
quite the opposite, in fact.

With VA, IIRC, in the end a user formally requested that I set up a list,
which I said had to happen before I would do so - but with the ROOL forums,
if I was asked to set one up, I'd be inclined to argue against it unless
some _very_ compelling reasons were given, and even then I'd have doubts and
probably try to discuss things with ROOL before doing going ahead - or, more
likely, rejecting the request.

And this is coming from someone who much prefers usenet and mailing lists to
web based forums.

--
Soft Rock Software: http://www.softrock.co.uk
Vince M Hudd: http://misc.vinceh.com/about-vinceh/
RISCOSitory: http://www.riscository.com

Tim Hill

unread,
Nov 12, 2011, 11:32:55 AM11/12/11
to
In article <5230999...@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Jim, I can be added to the list of folks who dislike the Forum method,
> unfortunately, as you mention... I've just about given up the moan, as
> many of the subjects I read/contribute to, are Forum only.

Just remembered another reason to dislike (some) forums. Some don't use
cookies well and you have to log in every time.

--
Tim Hill of timil.com . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@

... "Your monument shall be my gentle verse, which eyes not yet created shall o'er read" Sonnet 81

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 12, 2011, 7:14:28 PM11/12/11
to
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <522ee97...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
> Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > > * We can moderate the forums to remove spam
>
> > Ditto for usenet and email lists.
>
> We mustn't forget moderated facebook 'pages' set up by companies. Join
> hTC's and post the slightest criticism and you will find your posts
> disappear. Unless you are prepared to say they are wonderful in all ways
> and not say that their support is a pile of dingoes' kidneys forget it.

And this is different from moderated usenet, how? And different from usenet
on private servers, how?

If your view of hTC is a commonly held one, there will surely be other
facebook groups and other fora where unhappy users hang out.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 12, 2011, 7:22:08 PM11/12/11
to
Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> ... A mailing list wouldn't complement the forums in the slightest - I'm
> inclined to think quite the opposite, in fact.

Suppose every post made to the forum was also sent to a distribution-only
mail list server? Then people who wish to have forum updates pushed out to
them coul dsubscribe to the mail-list. They'd still have to log in to the
forum to make posts. Would that be a useful compromise?

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 13, 2011, 5:31:46 AM11/13/11
to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Suppose every post made to the forum was also sent to a distribution-only
> mail list server? Then people who wish to have forum updates pushed out to
> them coul dsubscribe to the mail-list. They'd still have to log in to the
> forum to make posts. Would that be a useful compromise?

You can already do this with the RSS feed. Try something like:

http://www.feedmyinbox.com/
with
http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

(completely untested, other RSS to email platforms are available)

Theo

Martin Bazley

unread,
Nov 13, 2011, 7:07:03 AM11/13/11
to
The following bytes were arranged on 11 Nov 2011 by Jim Lesurf :

> Yes. I've noticed that others have taken that 'choice', and decided there
> is not much point in saying that they would perfer an alternative to be
> available.. I've also largely given up trying to question the way people
> have resigned themselves to 'going with the flow'. But I thought it worth
> at least raising the issue in the hope people would actually think about
> it. And even realise it is quite possible for a 'forum' to also parallel as
> something like an email list. So give more genuine 'choice'. Alas, many
> minds seem closed.

I can only see one closed mind around here.

--
__<^>__ "Did you know that polar bears stay white all year round? ...The
/ _ _ \ white colour makes them less visible to the seals and penguins they
( ( |_| ) ) hunt." - Nelson Thornes AQA-endorsed GCSE science textbook
\_> <_/ ======================= Martin Bazley ==========================

Martin Bazley

unread,
Nov 13, 2011, 7:05:14 AM11/13/11
to
The following bytes were arranged on 13 Nov 2011 by Jeremy Nicoll - news posts :

> Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > ... A mailing list wouldn't complement the forums in the slightest - I'm
> > inclined to think quite the opposite, in fact.
>
> Suppose every post made to the forum was also sent to a distribution-only
> mail list server? Then people who wish to have forum updates pushed out to
> them coul dsubscribe to the mail-list. They'd still have to log in to the
> forum to make posts. Would that be a useful compromise?

You have basically just described the entire point, definition, and
raison d'etre of the RSS protocol.

The ROOL website offers feeds for the whole forum, for each section in
the forum, and for each topic in each section.

Do I assume from the tone of your message that you're refusing to use
them?

--
__<^>__ === RISC OS is a work of art. Some people adore it, ===
/ _ _ \ === others can't see the point of it, and it's really ===
( ( |_| ) ) === expensive. ===

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 13, 2011, 3:39:31 PM11/13/11
to
Martin Bazley <martin...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> The following bytes were arranged on 13 Nov 2011 by Jeremy Nicoll - news
posts :
>
> > Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > ... A mailing list wouldn't complement the forums in the slightest -
> > > I'm inclined to think quite the opposite, in fact.
> >
> > Suppose every post made to the forum was also sent to a distribution-
> > only mail list server? Then people who wish to have forum updates
> > pushed out to them coul dsubscribe to the mail-list. They'd still have
> > to log in to the forum to make posts. Would that be a useful
> > compromise?
>
> You have basically just described the entire point, definition, and
> raison d'etre of the RSS protocol.

I guess...

> The ROOL website offers feeds for the whole forum, for each section in
> the forum, and for each topic in each section.

Is there a way to send an RSS feed to a mail-list server so that those who
have no RSS feed handler can benefit from it?

> Do I assume from the tone of your message that you're refusing to use
> them?

It certainly sounds like you're assuming it ;-)

But you have the wrong end of the stick. I rarely use RO these days and
don't follow what's being discussed on the ROOL website by any means as it
is no longer very relevant to me. If I were still interested then the RSS
feeds would be dead easy to use, eg using the feed handler built in to the
browser I use - Firefox; I use this for a bunch of other sites, mainly
blogs.

Maybe the problem here is more that the RO users who've been complaining
don't properly understand what RSS is and how to use it with their existing
RO apps? My suggestion was for a compromise mechanism that would work with
their basic email/news software.

Jess

unread,
Nov 13, 2011, 8:42:51 PM11/13/11
to
In message <mpro.lum9dv...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> Maybe the problem here is more that the RO users who've been complaining
> don't properly understand what RSS is and how to use it with their existing
> RO apps? My suggestion was for a compromise mechanism that would work with
> their basic email/news software.

As a result of this thread, I have configured Hermes to collect some RSS
feeds.

The result isn't perfect, and I have made some suggestions to RComp for
tweaks that would improve it.

However it could also be addressed by having an extra RSS feed tailored
to be read in email clients.
--
Jess Iyonix

Ian Hamilton

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 1:40:12 AM11/14/11
to
In article <ecfcc53...@itworkshop.invalid>,
You can use the email clients filtering on the extra header :-

X-Hermes-RSSFeed:

HTH,
Ian

--
Ian Hamilton (Iyonix/ARMini) http://www.hamiltoni.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Jess

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 4:47:23 AM11/14/11
to
In message <5231e135cfI...@AAUG.Net>
Ian Hamilton <Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:

> You can use the email clients filtering on the extra header :-

> X-Hermes-RSSFeed:

Do you just type it in the Box instead of selecting from the drop down?

Is there a means of checking for the header and putting everything in a
folder?

Thanks, that looks like a useful tip.
--
Jess Iyonix

Ian Hamilton

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 5:24:19 AM11/14/11
to
In article <2e59f23...@itworkshop.invalid>,
I'm not familiar with Messenger-Pro. The RSS messages created by Hermes
have a special header line. (e.g. The RISCOS.org feed has
'X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org').

In Pluto I have a filter checking for a 'Header' with 'x-hermes-rssfeed'
which sets the delivery box for the messages. I have an inbox just for
RSS feeds.

Example full header :-

> To: rss
> From: RISCOS.org
> Subject: csa.announce: BBFlash released
> Date: 13 Nov 2011
> X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org
> Content-type: text/plain

The 'rss' in the first line is the 'Local user mailbox' entry in Hermes.

Jess

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 6:26:16 AM11/14/11
to
In message <5231f5ba94I...@AAUG.Net>
Ian Hamilton <Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:

> I'm not familiar with Messenger-Pro. The RSS messages created by Hermes
> have a special header line. (e.g. The RISCOS.org feed has
> 'X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org').

> In Pluto I have a filter checking for a 'Header' with 'x-hermes-rssfeed'
> which sets the delivery box for the messages. I have an inbox just for
> RSS feeds.

Messenger pro *appears* to have filters just for defined header
entries.

> Example full header :-

>> To: rss
>> From: RISCOS.org
>> Subject: csa.announce: BBFlash released
>> Date: 13 Nov 2011
>> X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org
>> Content-type: text/plain

> The 'rss' in the first line is the 'Local user mailbox' entry in Hermes.

I have already made filters using other criteria.

The problems I was referring to are with the display.

Hermes appears to pass on the description part of the feed as the body
by dropping things it doesn't understand. (i.e. the xml formatting
tags)

The solution would appear to be either to upgrade hermes so that it
converts them to be like an email/news message or for ROOL to create a
second feed with what an email client would expect in the description
part. (And to keep the title constant for a thread, like Icon Bar
does)


--
Jess Iyonix

Dr Peter Young

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 6:24:45 AM11/14/11
to
On 4 Nov 2011 David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <522c721...@audiomisc.co.uk>
> Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

>> In article <522c6d451e...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
>> <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> [snip]

>>> It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable
>>> work on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to
>>> keep up with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

>> For an occasional visit, fine. But without going there as a routine I won't
>> see what is appearing, and won't know - unless it is mentioned here or
>> elsewhere that I *do* read - there is even something new to check.

> There is RSS :-

> http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

Coming late to this thread ... I have been using RSS on Hermes for,
amongst other things, to get the ROOL RSS feeds. However, I only seem
to get a very few of them. What I have in the Hermes Edit RSS Feed box
is www.riscosopen.org.news/xml/rss20feed.xml . Is this correct? The
ROOL site seems to be down at this morning, so I can't check there,
not that I would probably understand what it says anyway :-(

Thanks in advance,

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter \ / zfc Lu \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
and \/ __ __ \ England.
family / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
/ \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk

Chris Hughes

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 7:07:36 AM11/14/11
to
In message <7566fb3...@itworkshop.invalid>
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In message <5231f5ba94I...@AAUG.Net>
> Ian Hamilton <Ian.Ha...@AAUG.net> wrote:

>> I'm not familiar with Messenger-Pro. The RSS messages created by Hermes
>> have a special header line. (e.g. The RISCOS.org feed has
>> 'X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org').

>> In Pluto I have a filter checking for a 'Header' with 'x-hermes-rssfeed'
>> which sets the delivery box for the messages. I have an inbox just for
>> RSS feeds.

> Messenger pro *appears* to have filters just for defined header
> entries.

No you can manually add any you want. It just provides the common ones
by default.


--
Chris Hughes

David Pitt

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 7:29:50 AM11/14/11
to
In message <fe42fb315...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 4 Nov 2011 David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

>> In message <522c721...@audiomisc.co.uk>
>> Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

>>> In article <522c6d451e...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
>>> <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>> [snip]

>>>> It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable
>>>> work on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to
>>>> keep up with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

>>> For an occasional visit, fine. But without going there as a routine I won't
>>> see what is appearing, and won't know - unless it is mentioned here or
>>> elsewhere that I *do* read - there is even something new to check.

>> There is RSS :-

>> http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

> Coming late to this thread ... I have been using RSS on Hermes for,
> amongst other things, to get the ROOL RSS feeds. However, I only seem
> to get a very few of them. What I have in the Hermes Edit RSS Feed box
> is www.riscosopen.org.news/xml/rss20feed.xml . Is this correct? The
> ROOL site seems to be down at this morning, so I can't check there,
> not that I would probably understand what it says anyway :-(

The ROOL site is up.

How do you do it!! The the forum RSS URL is right above your post.



--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

Jess

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 8:00:24 AM11/14/11
to
In message <392fff31...@o2.co.uk>
Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

>> Messenger pro *appears* to have filters just for defined header
>> entries.

> No you can manually add any you want. It just provides the common ones
> by default.

Thanks, do you happen to know if entering a * in the value field would
match everything with that header?

--
Jess Iyonix

Dr Peter Young

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 8:23:41 AM11/14/11
to
It is now, but it wasn't when I tried earlier.

> How do you do it!! The the forum RSS URL is right above your post.

I'm not sure if I've seen that. Is it the URL quoted above? That makes
Hermes throw up a fatal error, and if it isn't the correct bit to
enter into Hermes' RSS Feed Edit box, I can't find anything else in
the thread. Mind you, I do get failures of usenet posts to arrive
sometimes.

Jess

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 9:05:11 AM11/14/11
to
In message <982606325...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> How do you do it!! The the forum RSS URL is right above your post.

> I'm not sure if I've seen that. Is it the URL quoted above? That makes
> Hermes throw up a fatal error, and if it isn't the correct bit to
> enter into Hermes' RSS Feed Edit box, I can't find anything else in
> the thread. Mind you, I do get failures of usenet posts to arrive
> sometimes.

it looks like the entry I have. But it's not been working today, and I
can't get into the forum to post either (on Netsurf).

--
Jess Iyonix

David Pitt

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 9:51:12 AM11/14/11
to
In message <982606325...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 14 Nov 2011 David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

>> In message <fe42fb315...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>>> On 4 Nov 2011 David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>>>> There is RSS :-

>>>> http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

>>> Coming late to this thread ... I have been using RSS on Hermes for,
>>> amongst other things, to get the ROOL RSS feeds. However, I only seem
>>> to get a very few of them. What I have in the Hermes Edit RSS Feed box
>>> is www.riscosopen.org.news/xml/rss20feed.xml . Is this correct? The
>>> ROOL site seems to be down at this morning, so I can't check there,
>>> not that I would probably understand what it says anyway :-(

>> The ROOL site is up.

> It is now, but it wasn't when I tried earlier.

>> How do you do it!! The the forum RSS URL is right above your post.

> I'm not sure if I've seen that. Is it the URL quoted above? That makes
> Hermes throw up a fatal error, and if it isn't the correct bit to
> enter into Hermes' RSS Feed Edit box, I can't find anything else in
> the thread. Mind you, I do get failures of usenet posts to arrive
> sometimes.

Oh do pay attention. That URL might cause Hermes to die but that does
not mean it is the wrong URL. Tony Moore reported the failure of
Hermes 2.56 with that URL earlier in this very thread and I responded
noting that 2.56c is OK.

If RISC OS is too difficult try Internet Explorer 9 on that nice new
Windows laptop, navigate to http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/ then
click on the orange RSS symbol. Follow the prompts and IE9 will deal.
Firefox can do much the same. It's all good fun.
Message has been deleted

Tony Moore

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 11:36:09 AM11/14/11
to
On 14 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > On 4 Nov 2011 David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> > > > > http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

[snip]

> Tony Moore reported the failure of Hermes 2.56 with that URL earlier
> in this very thread and I responded noting that 2.56c is OK.

I now have Hermes 2.62 (13 Oct 2011), and all is well.

Tony



Message has been deleted

Kevin Wells

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 11:08:53 AM11/14/11
to
In message <c104043...@itworkshop.invalid>
That is what I have on my Messenger Pro filters I have a *at the start
and at the end*
>


--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
MP Info http://kevsoft.co.uk/mp/result.php

Vince M Hudd

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 10:27:03 AM11/14/11
to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

[...]

> Maybe the problem here is more that the RO users who've been complaining
> don't properly understand what RSS is and how to use it with their
> existing RO apps? My suggestion was for a compromise mechanism that
> would work with their basic email/news software.

I suspect this could already be achieved on by one willing individual with
the right software - but since I've long sinced stopped using RISC OS for
email (out of convenience, rather than preference) and I only ever had one
of the two pieces of software in question, I don't know for certain.

I'm thinking of a combination of Hermes and Pluto. The former can download
RSS feeds and present them to the email client, and the latter contains a
basic list server, so I'm wondering if the RSS feed fetched by Hermes could
then be distributed to a Pluto-run mailing list.

The problem then is that subscribers to that list - those RISC OS users who
don't properly understand what RSS is and how to use it with their existing
RISC OS apps - might then contribute to discussions on that list, and those
contributions will never find their way onto the ROOL forums unless someone
is kind enough to repost them there. (Or does Pluto have the option of a
read-only list?).

If I was still using RISC OS for email, and/or running a RISC OS computer on
a regular enough basis, I'd be more than willing to [buy Hermes and] try
this out and, if it worked, run the list in question - but I don't; the RISC
OS computer(s) only get switched on when I have a decent block of time to
work on RISC OS stuff.

druck

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 2:21:21 PM11/14/11
to
On 11/11/2011 15:47, Tim Hill wrote:
> In article<522e84712b...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe
> <ron.b...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article<522e521...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
>> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 1) People behave better there (so far, and long may that last!);
>
>>> Usenet groups can be moderated.
>
>> Most of the c.s.a. groups are not though.
>
> I know: let's ask druck to moderate them all....he nearly does anyway.

And don't you forget it!

---druck

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 2:48:10 PM11/14/11
to
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, do you happen to know if entering a * in the value field would
> match everything with that header?

If all examples are like: 'X-Hermes-RSSFeed: RISCOS.org' then looking for
a single dot would work. Maybe also a space, if the test looks at the whole
header line.

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 2:50:58 PM11/14/11
to
Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> I'm thinking of a combination of Hermes and Pluto. The former can download
> RSS feeds and present them to the email client, and the latter contains a
> basic list server, so I'm wondering if the RSS feed fetched by Hermes
> could then be distributed to a Pluto-run mailing list.

If Pluto sent the fetched RSS feed info out to the server address of a
externally hosted read-only maillist, that might work better than hosting
the maillist itself within Pluto.

Dave Symes

unread,
Nov 14, 2011, 3:24:18 PM11/14/11
to
In article <j9rpnh$5va$1...@dont-email.me>,
Do you have enough time to spare...?

New Wife, Politics... ;-)

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

Vince M Hudd

unread,
Nov 15, 2011, 4:15:15 AM11/15/11
to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> > I'm thinking of a combination of Hermes and Pluto. The former can
> > download RSS feeds and present them to the email client, and the latter
> > contains a basic list server, so I'm wondering if the RSS feed fetched
> > by Hermes could then be distributed to a Pluto-run mailing list.

> If Pluto sent the fetched RSS feed info out to the server address of a
> externally hosted read-only maillist, that might work better than hosting
> the maillist itself within Pluto.

Why would that work better?

I'd normally prefer a proper list-server over Pluto, for the simple reason
that mail is distributed as it comes in, rather than relying on the Pluto
user's connection schedule, and that he or she isn't away for any length of
time (witness the fun that's had on the Archive mailing list when this
happens).

However, if a Pluto/Hermes combination is receiving the RSS feed and turning
it into email, then that advantage is lost anyway: The list-server can dish
it out to subscribers as soon as it comes in, but it'll only ever come in
according the Pluto user's connection schedule. Pluto may as well just
handle the list.

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

unread,
Nov 15, 2011, 6:07:59 PM11/15/11
to
Vince M Hudd <vin...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> > If Pluto sent the fetched RSS feed info out to the server address of a
> > externally hosted read-only maillist, that might work better than
> > hosting the maillist itself within Pluto.
>
> Why would that work better?

Because if the external mail-list is configured to be an announcement only
one then users attempting to reply to the list mails don't then cause
potential problems to the Pluto system.
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages