Dear All,
I'm interested in supporting the programming environment Scratch
on RISC OS with an eye on the Raspberry Pi.

I'm hoping to find someone interested in the 'few hours work' needed
to port it across. What follows is a description of what is likely to
be
involved kindly provided by- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr
(Merlintec Computers Ltda and Squeak Oversight Board)

I enjoyed your report about the 2011 RISC OS London show
http://www.riscoscode.com/Pages/Item0113.html
and have some information about this part:

"What a great start to the day. I'd managed to interview Theo
Markettos
and tweet the interview as it proceeded. Theo is a postdoctoral
researcher at Cambridge University. Although he has no formal direct
connection with the Raspberry Pi foundation he shares offices at the
University with people who do. Keen to make the point that any views
expressed today were his rather than Raspberry Pi's he none-the-less
has
an impressive grasp of both the Raspberry Pi and RISC OS. I spoke to
him
at the Raspberry Pi stall where he presided over the precious alpha
developbent boards one of which was running a software authoring
package
for primary school kids called Scratch. As this is not available for
RISC OS it prompted me ask Theo if he thought RISC OS software was up
to
the job of appealing to users of Raspberry Pi."

Scratch is built on top of Squeak, which runs on many different
platforms. One of those, up to Squeak 3.8 in 2005, was RISC OS.
Unfortunately, Tim Roledge (http://www.rowledge.org/tim/) had been
single handedly keeping this port updated and when he moved on to
other
things nobody replaced him in keeping Squeak current on the RISC OS.

On the other hand, Scratch is built on a much older version of Squeak
(version 2.8 from 2000) so it should only take a few minutes to get it
mostly running on the RISC OS by combining the Virtual Machine from
Squeak 3.8 (ftp://ftp.squeak.org/3.8/riscos/ in the either the basic
or
full version since the VM is exactly the same in both) with all the
files except the VM from
http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Scratch_1.4_Download (the version for any
of
the operating systems will work fine since its executable will not be
used).

Now the reason I said it will mostly work is that the standard Squeak
VM
doesn't include the special Scratch plug-in, which would have to be
compiled from the sources available at
http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code  (but while some features
don't
work without the plugin, the basic system does work).

In short, having Scratch fully working on RISC OS is less than an
hour's
work for someone who knows what they are doing and a few day's work
for
someone who doesn't. It certainly is not a reason to not have RISC OS
on
the Raspberry PI.

My best regards,
-- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr
    Merlintec Computers Ltda and Squeak Oversight Board

I'm looking into projects for which small amounts of work bring back
quick results, and this one seemed quite promising.
You can get my email from Google or visit the RISCOScode website
or use @RISCOScode on twitter.
Regards,
Martin.

http://www.RISCOScode.com

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Martin

Great idea, loving it! Could we discuss this over @ ROOL though? I do
take it not everyone's following csa and it would be nice to have all
the relevant threads and information in one place.

Just opened "RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi" to get this started:
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/783

Hope we can discuss technical aspects, programming languages,
documentation to go with it and how to handle things in general.

-- patric

Hi Partic,
OK - I've copied the post across to the ROOL forum you've set up.
It seemed to be to more of a quick project for one person than a team
effort.
I'm more interested in developing a simple straightforward user pack
to go
with the working Scratch for RISC OS software, rather than doing any
coding myself with this.
(I'm already halfway through two projects that now need to be
accelerated for the Raspberry Pi release)
If someone gets it working I'll run with it, but only then.
Regards,
Martin.

In article
<5ff5139b-ac54-44fd-9697-8d09b5f7c...@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
   Martin Hansen <m...@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:

I'd personally prefer it if people discussed things on usenet, not on a
'forum'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <522c41e48cno...@audiomisc.co.uk>,
   Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

Why not keep in touch via both?

It must be said though that a lot of the people who are doing valuable work
on RISC OS 5 hardly ever post to the csa groups. So if you want to keep up
with the latest news then the ROOL site is the place to go :-).

Regards Ron.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 00:40:28 -0700 (PDT)

thanks Martin! Main idea at this point is really to have all info
in one (searchable) place, perhaps as a wiki later. If we all share
our ideas on the forum we'll avoid double effort and maybe even spark
some ideas.

-- patric

In message <77f484a8-5ff6-4a57-91a4-0037913fd...@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
 on 3 Nov 2011 Martin Hansen  wrote:

It may not be quite so straightforward as he suggests: the VM may need
recompiling too to suit the ARMv7 architecture.

But if the RISC OS version source is fully available it shouldn't be a big
job.

--
Matthew Phillips
Durham

In message <77f484a8-5ff6-4a57-91a4-0037913fd...@t8g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
 on 3 Nov 2011 Martin Hansen  wrote:

It does look quite interesting.

I have downloaded version 3.8 of Squeak for RISC OS, which does run on the
Iyonix apparently without problems.  Firstly you should note that there are
some limitations.  There is no support for sound in the RISC OS port at
present.  The performance seems pretty slow also (not that I have ever used
Squeak on any platform so it's hard to compare).  Source code for the RISC OS
application is not present in the FTP location linked to.  As the stuff dates
from 2005 it probably needs recompiling for use on a BeagleBoard.  I'm not
sure what the requirements for the Raspberry Pi's processor are.  Is it the
same generation of ARM version?

Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao suggests that Scratch would mostly work if you
combine the virtual machine from Squeak with the other files from Scratch
1.4.  He points to a page which offers downloads for Windows, Mac and Linux,
but says it will be fine to use any of these as the executable will not be
used.

Now, unfortunately, the way in which the files are arranged for !Squeak on
RISC OS bears little resemblance to what you find inside the zip file for
Windows or inside the .deb file for Linux.  It's hard to know what the
significant files are that might be needed.  The plugins are clearly ELF
libraries on Linux and DLLs on Windows.  The RISC OS !Squeak has a plugins
directory but I have no idea what kind of file they are, so goodness knows
what needs producing for recompiling the Scratch plugin.

Tim Rowledge, who did the original port, might be able to do this job in a
few hours.  I think anyone who has not used Squeak and Scratch (that probably
includes nearly 100% of current RISC OS developers) would take a lot longer
than a few days to get it working.

Perhaps you'd best try contacting Tim and encourage him back to the
community!

--
Matthew Phillips
Durham

In article <522c6d451eron.bris...@blueyonder.co.uk>, Ron Briscoe

I can't comment on the ROOL forum specifically, so can only give a general
response.

1) Because I generally find webpage based 'forums' hard/tedious to read.
Matter of what they look like, not the content.

2) Because I generally find they don't give me the options I have with
Pluto for news and find convenient.

To explain further. With newspostings and Pluto I can arrange the text to
show as I find convenient and readable with no space wasted by unwanted
graphics or appearance being dicatated to by how the forum thinks it should
look. Not broken up into 'pages', etc.  I can also keep copies of material
I find useful and do content searches on them, etc. I can arrange for
quoting to use factors like colour, etc, as suit me and my reading
requirements.

For an occasional visit, fine. But without going there as a routine I won't
see what is appearing, and won't know - unless it is mentioned here or
elsewhere that I *do* read - there is even something new to check.

If the forum suits others, that is fine for them. But as I said:

I'm happy enough to spend my time on other things. Have enough to do. But
given that, the above is my view.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In message <522c721fa4no...@audiomisc.co.uk>
  Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

There is RSS :-

 http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts.rss

--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

In message <9e81c92c52.pitt...@iyonix.home>
          David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

 [snip]

Have you an web address of a rss reader?

Thanks
--
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

On 4 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

'Hermes has suffered a fatal error and cannot continue'

Does anyone else see that error message?

Tony

In message <3813da2c52.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>
  Tony Moore <old_coas...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I did with Hermes 2.56, see Hermes mailing list 2nd July 2011.

2.56c sorted it, courtesy of Alan Wrigley.

Hermes may have moved on since then, a subsequent thread referred to
Hermes 2.61 which broke RSS. Alan was dealing.

--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

On 4 Nov 2011, David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

OK, thanks. I'll talk to Alan.

Tony

In article <9e81c92c52.pitt...@iyonix.home>, David Pitt

Many things exist. Including usenet and email lists. Also Twitter,
Facebook, and whatever is the latest 'must have' new-wheel-for-old fashion
accessory.  :-)

But what is the specific advantage of a 'web forum' (or 'rss') that makes
them necessary or overwhelmingly preferrable as a replacement for usenet
(or an email list)? As a reader, I'm unclear on that point given the
disadvantages I see for many of the 'forums'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <522cdfca80no...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf

I suspect that it is (much) easier for the poster, because
(s)he can access a forum from a handheld device using http.
Usenet is, by and large, not accessible that way.

(This came up during the first, really major, outage this
year at PurleyHosting, when many of us here had no idea that
regualr posts were made to Twitter for, according to Neil
spellings, just that reason.)

The fact that postings to a forum - at least the ones I have
looked at, usually when trying to find an answer to some
Windows problem - are IMHO approx = incomprehensible is
irrelevant.

It is *so* much easier to follow a discussion in a
newsgroup, using a properly designed, threaded newsreader.

But I suspect that counts for nothing to those who seem to
spend just about every waking moment with their eyes glued
to their tiny screen.

Anyway, I suspect that usenet just is just not cool, though
I doubt whether I would be reagarded as capable of making
such a decision.

Another factor may be that usenet is hardly taught in
schools?

When in my teaching days I went on my first course in using
the internet - Netscape 1 etc -  we were told very little
about usenet. AFAIR 1) we really did not need to know and 2)
it was full of porn. We were shown one posting, which had a
binary attachement of, we were told, a naked woman, though
the picture was only downloaded to the shoulders and then
aborted.

When, a couple of years later I found myself teaching a
course which included "An introduction to usenet" I was,
thanks to Argonet, rather more knowledgeable, but the school
had no newsfeed and the only way I could it was via a web
browser and dejanews.

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

In message <522cdfca80no...@audiomisc.co.uk>
  Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

[snip - ROOL's forum]

I suppose trends are not always quality led!

Usenet does seem to be in general decline across the board, being
unmoderated it is open to spam, trolling and vileness, I guess people
just get fed up of all that and give up on it.

Mailing lists are moderated at least in so far as one has to join and
therefore could be 'unjoined'. Am I right in saying they are mainly a
RISC OS thing, I have never come across one in another area.

So forums then, moderated in that registration is required, easy to
use in that all that is needed is a browser, no faffing around with
email or usenet clients.

I would be with Jim in preferring usenet or mailing lists but time
moves on and they are less and less the way of it now.

--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

In article <00d1eb2c52.pitt...@iyonix.home>,
   David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

There are loads of them about.  I'm subscribed to one for remote Luton Town
supporters, one on Belgian cafes and various CAMRA mailing lists.  Yahoo
groups are basically mailing lists with an added online element.

Brian

--
Brian Debenham
br...@bdebenham.co.uk
StrongARMed and dangerous !
Chelmsford CAMRA: http://www.chelmsfordcamra.org.uk/

In article <00d1eb2c52.pitt...@iyonix.home>, David Pitt

That does surprise me!

I susbscribe to two (both run by yahoo) that have absolutely
nothing to do with computing.

1. A list run for the benefit of a charity I am involved
with, though only a subset of members susbscribe. My brother
and sister are both much more closely involved with the
organisation, but they do not subsribe. One of my nieces
does.

2. A list run for fans of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover
novels.

In fact, a quck look at Yahoo Groups homepage lists 17
categories of group, of which just one is computers and
internet.

<hhtp://groups.yahoo.com>

Computers and internet has 13 subcategories, subcategory
'hardware' includes 49 922 groups! No doubt some will be
moribund, or almost. But I cannot imagine that they all are.

Maybe you should have a quick look!

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

In message <522cee68a1br...@bdebenham.co.uk>
  Brian Debenham <br...@bdebenham.co.uk> wrote:

Or even http://forum.camra.org.uk/

Very pleased to see RISC OS put to such good use :-
  http://www.chelmsfordcamra.org.uk/

I feel a terrible thirst ...
--
David Pitt

MessengerPro 6 on an ARMini running RISC OS 5

In message <00d1eb2c52.pitt...@iyonix.home>
          David Pitt <pit...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

Mailing lists for technology subjects are very widespread and can be
set up for free via freelists.org.

Just take a look there at the number of lists they host. Set up is
easy (even with Netsurf) and so is management and moderation.

Chris

--

Chris Shepheard writing as himself          
chris.shephe...@chrispics.co.uk
from far west Surrey                        www.chrispics.co.uk

In article <8d7fcd2c52.cfer...@cferris.freeuk.com>,
   <cfer...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid> wrote:

There is !Ticker by Darren Salt

http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.apps.html

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

Not always.

You're wrong...

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV
and: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/history-listserv.asp
and: http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreply...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  

On 04/11/2011 14:38, Russell Hafter News wrote:

Ah those were the days! Porn was much more fun when it tool 2 minutes to
download an image. You'd sit there eagerly waiting for a nipple to
appear - or was that just me?

---druck

In article <j93m0b$1o...@dont-email.me>,

[Snip]

No, it was a nipple as I remember it.

--
______________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
From somewhere in North Hampshire. England. UK.
______________________________________________________________________