I could save 2 MightyFrames from being shreddered..... and have some
tapes. I restored the Archive 5445L-3
tape drive to a working condition, but I think no tape is fully
readable. The MF talks to me on CONSOLE 0,
I regularly get messages like "read failed in middle", and it breaks/
resets.
I also tried to read the tapes on sco unix, and on a newer linux (dd)
- it wont read anything. Do those QIC drives
use a special formatting, or are those tapes just dead? I would like
to get one of those machines back in a working
state....
Ah, good, you must have received my email suggesting this venue! :-)
> I could save 2 MightyFrames from being shreddered
For those who are unaware, the MightyFrame is a big brother to
the Convergent MiniFrame which is a kissing cousin to the 3B1.
All used the same CPU; the MightyFrame and MiniFrames ran CTIX
(Convergent Tech's UNIX) vs. the "pure" AT&T UNIX on the 3B1.
> ..... and have some
> tapes. I restored the Archive 5445L-3
> tape drive to a working condition, but I think no tape is fully
> readable. The MF talks to me on CONSOLE 0,
> I regularly get messages like "read failed in middle", and it breaks/
> resets.
> I also tried to read the tapes on sco unix, and on a newer linux (dd)
> - it wont read anything. Do those QIC drives
> use a special formatting, or are those tapes just dead? I would like
> to get one of those machines back in a working
> state....
> Any ideas greatly appreciated ;)
I'm assuming you're talking about boot tapes. Boot tapes are "odd" as
you can read about in the docs for my tprobe program from 1992 and
archived in comp.sources.unix. The best and fastest way to retrieve it
is from here:
That's a shell archive; remove everything up to but NOT including the
"#! /bin/sh", resave the file, then simply "sh filename". For easy
reading, a PDF of the man page is here:
Read all the ancillary files and text extracted from the shell archive
to note the difficulty with boot tapes. I tested tprobe using my
Miniframes and MightyFrame and also 3B1s, Sun3s, Sun4s, and 3B2, and
comments from its 1000s of users indicated it worked fine on all systems
that everything has compiled and run it on.
Give tprobe a try and report whatever errors it displays.
> I'm assuming you're talking about boot tapes. Boot tapes are "odd" as
> you can read about in the docs for my tprobe program from 1992 and
> archived in comp.sources.unix. The best and fastest way to retrieve it
> is from here:
Yes, it goes about the boot tapes (CTIX RAW, CTIX DIAGNOSTICS, CTIX
MAINTENANCE).
> Give tprobe a try and report whatever errors it displays.
Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
> I also tried to read the tapes on sco unix, and on a newer linux (dd)
> - it wont read anything. Do those QIC drives
> use a special formatting, or are those tapes just dead? I would like
> to get one of those machines back in a working
> state....
MightyFrame had unique firmware for handling "EOT" which was encountered at
the end of a track, a predictable distance from the beginning.
That might have only been on the 60 MB QIC, and not the 150, but my memory
fogs.
I know I used a "standard" Archive QIC to read the tape up to that point.
-- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Thad Floryan <t...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
> For those who are unaware, the MightyFrame is a big brother to
> the Convergent MiniFrame which is a kissing cousin to the 3B1.
> All used the same CPU; the MightyFrame and MiniFrames ran CTIX
> (Convergent Tech's UNIX) vs. the "pure" AT&T UNIX on the 3B1.
I have a MiniFrame that needs to find a home.
It probably hasn't been turned on in over 10 years, so the twin Maxtor 190's
may or may not spin. I also have a box of QIC tapes of various sorts,
which may or may not be stuck together.
I have the ethernet-16 serial port board that has never been powered up.
-- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
> And it acts like this on several tapes that wont boot the machine. > So, obviously all my tapes are faulty ?!
Or are the heads of the tape drive needing cleaning? Usually you use Isopropyl alcohol -- the higher the concentration the better. Probably 91% for drug store purchased, not the 70%.
And if the heads get dirty as soon as you try another tape in the drive, then the tapes are shedding. Keep cleaning and trying the next tape to see if some of them are workable.
I don't know about the MiniFrame and MightyFrame tape drives, but the "Floppy Tape" for the 7300/3B1/unix-pc are a weird format. Actually formatted by a floppy tape controller, and they can't be read by another system using normal tape formats. And it is the slowest format for such tapes -- and gets all of 23 MB on a 60 MB tape and drive, so very inefficient.
But if Thad suggested his tprobe, that suggests that the tapes used on the newer machines are really a standard format. But beware that each newer QIC tape drive can *read* perhaps one or two generations older, but can't write them. perhaps your tape drive is too new? (What is the SCO 3.2v4.2 running on, and what vintage?)
I know that I've used tprobe a lot with Sun 3 and Sun-2 tapes. Sun-4 would use a QIC-150 tape drive, the Sun-3 a QIC-60 (or whatever the 60 MB format: was called), and Sun-2 something even less capable.
Good Luck, DoN.
-- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
> Or are the heads of the tape drive needing cleaning? Usually
> you use Isopropyl alcohol -- the higher the concentration the better.
> Probably 91% for drug store purchased, not the 70%.
thanks for your suggestion - I already cleaned the heads before I
started
to test about. Also, the capstan wheels are new, I want to avoid a
mess
in my tape drive.
> But if Thad suggested his tprobe, that suggests that the tapes
> used on the newer machines are really a standard format. But beware
> that each newer QIC tape drive can *read* perhaps one or two generations
> older, but can't write them. perhaps your tape drive is too new? (What
> is the SCO 3.2v4.2 running on, and what vintage?)
I tried on 3 different tape drives: Wangtek 5150ES, Archive 2150S and
Wangtek
5099EN24. No at all. The SCO is running on a 386sx25, ISA-bus only
system :)
> I have a MiniFrame that needs to find a home.
> It probably hasn't been turned on in over 10 years, so the twin Maxtor 190's
> may or may not spin. I also have a box of QIC tapes of various sorts,
> which may or may not be stuck together.
> I have the ethernet-16 serial port board that has never been powered up.
pity I live in Europe, so I cant pick it up at yours :-( Or do you
have any other
ideas :-)
On 2011-10-01, Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
> Hello DoN,
>> Or are the heads of the tape drive needing cleaning? Usually
>> you use Isopropyl alcohol -- the higher the concentration the better.
>> Probably 91% for drug store purchased, not the 70%.
> thanks for your suggestion - I already cleaned the heads before I
> started
> to test about. Also, the capstan wheels are new, I want to avoid a
> mess
> in my tape drive.
O.K. It was worth mentioning, just in case. I presume that you
tried cleaning the heads again later? If there is a lot to clean off
after just one tape, the tape is deteriorating, and you should give up
on it. (Or perhaps try baking the tape for about ten hours at a low
temperature (something like 150 F IIRC), as is done with old audio
master tapes -- good for only *one* play after that, so you copy it to
new media immediately after the backing.
>> But if Thad suggested his tprobe, that suggests that the tapes
>> used on the newer machines are really a standard format. But beware
>> that each newer QIC tape drive can *read* perhaps one or two generations
>> older, but can't write them. perhaps your tape drive is too new? (What
>> is the SCO 3.2v4.2 running on, and what vintage?)
> I tried on 3 different tape drives:
Wangtek 5150ES QIC-150 -- 150 MB tapes.
Archive 2150S and QIC-150 also -- same family, different maker.
Wangtek 5099EN24 QIC-36 (60MB tapes)
And what is the drive actually in the MightyFrame? (Or is it external?)
> . No at all. The SCO is running on a 386sx25, ISA-bus only
> system :)
O.K. Are all of these drives SCSI interface, or some other
interface?
Good Luck,
DoN.
-- Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2011-10-01, Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
>> Wangtek 5150ES QIC-150 -- 150 MB tapes.
>> Archive 2150S and QIC-150 also -- same family, different maker.
>> Wangtek 5099EN24 QIC-36 (60MB tapes)
>> And what is the drive actually in the MightyFrame? (Or is it external?)
> The one in the MF is by Archive, Model 5945L-3. The 5150ES/2150S
> should
> be able to read QIC-24 (say the specs)....
Good enough, then.
>> O.K. Are all of these drives SCSI interface, or some other
>> interface?
> All SCSI, yes. The 5945L-3 is equipped with an additional board (like
> Emulex 02),
> and this board has QIC connector.
O.K. Like the 60MB drives in Sun-3 machines. (Often sharing a
bootbox (a bigger box holding the tape in the center on a bridge above
the adaptor card, and the disk drive over against one wall, while the
power supply was against the other wall) with an ESDI disk drive with a
similar type of adaptor board to make both act as SCSI.
And with those, you *should* have normal formatting, not Floppy
Tape format. So I guess that the tapes are just plain unreadable.
Sorry,
DoN.
-- Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2011-10-03, Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
> Hello Don,
>> And with those, you *should* have normal formatting, not Floppy >> Tape format. So I guess that the tapes are just plain unreadable.
>> Sorry, >> DoN.
> thats what I was hoping not to hear. Do you know anyone that has those > tapes archived, or any source where those tapes could be -downloaded?
I don't, but I hope that someone else does. Ideally, they should make tprobe images of the tapes, and save those to CD-ROM so ne tapes can be made when needed -- at least as long as the QIC blanks can be purchased.
If I had ever had a MightyFrame, I would probably have made such images of my tapes -- once Thad made the tprobe program available.
If I *did* have such tapes or images of them, I would not be offering them in public, because I don't know who would assert copyright on them. But, since I don't I don't have to worry about the decision.
Good Luck, DoN.
-- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
> MightyFrame had unique firmware for handling "EOT" which was encountered at
> the end of a track, a predictable distance from the beginning.
> That might have only been on the 60 MB QIC, and not the 150, but my memory
> fogs.
> I know I used a "standard" Archive QIC to read the tape up to that point.
DoN. Nichols <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> If I *did* have such tapes or images of them, I would not be
> offering them in public, because I don't know who would assert copyright
> on them. But, since I don't I don't have to worry about the decision.
That's a fine question.
convergent.com was allowed to slip away, and Unisys never cared about the
MightyFrame.
Does anyone even care about the One True Unix, AT&T SVR-something?
I thought there was some official movement about the 3B1, but I don't know
about the "Convergent" stuff.
I have made copies of boot-install media from time to time for people that
needed something. One of those was a problem with a replacement QIC.
-- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 5:34:15 PM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
> DoN. Nichols <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> > If I *did* have such tapes or images of them, I would not be
> > offering them in public, because I don't know who would assert copyright
> > on them. But, since I don't I don't have to worry about the decision.
> That's a fine question.
> convergent.com was allowed to slip away, and Unisys never cared about the
> MightyFrame.
> Does anyone even care about the One True Unix, AT&T SVR-something?
> I thought there was some official movement about the 3B1, but I don't know
> about the "Convergent" stuff.
> I have made copies of boot-install media from time to time for people that
> needed something. One of those was a problem with a replacement QIC.
> -- > Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
> Hello Clarence,
> > MightyFrame had unique firmware for handling "EOT" which was encountered at
> > the end of a track, a predictable distance from the beginning. B > > That might have only been on the 60 MB QIC, and not the 150, but my memory
> > fogs.
> > I know I used a "standard" Archive QIC to read the tape up to that point.
> did you use any special tool for this?
No special tools. dd or tar or whatever would work until it hit the end of
the first serpentine track and reversed. The last partially read block was
discarded and rewrittten/reread as the first block on the next track on
one version of the firmware. The other version of the firmware would use
the partial block and continue on the next track.
-- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
On Sunday, 2 October 2011 23:48:55 UTC-4, DoN. Nichols wrote:
> On 2011-10-03, Michael Herzog <michael.her...@gmx.at> wrote:
> > Hello Don,
> >> And with those, you *should* have normal formatting, not Floppy
> >> Tape format. So I guess that the tapes are just plain unreadable.
> >> Sorry,
> >> DoN.
> > thats what I was hoping not to hear. Do you know anyone that has those
> > tapes archived, or any source where those tapes could be -downloaded?
> I don't, but I hope that someone else does. Ideally, they
> should make tprobe images of the tapes, and save those to CD-ROM so ne
> tapes can be made when needed -- at least as long as the QIC blanks can
> be purchased.
> If I had ever had a MightyFrame, I would probably have made such
> images of my tapes -- once Thad made the tprobe program available.
> If I *did* have such tapes or images of them, I would not be
> offering them in public, because I don't know who would assert copyright
> on them. But, since I don't I don't have to worry about the decision.
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
> -- > Remove oil spill source from e-mail
> Email: <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
> (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html > --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
===
In case anyone wants them, I have boxes of old Convergent tapes in my basement from a Cdn support centre I worked at. When they closed it I couldn't bear to dumpster them.
I also have an S80 that I think works and an S120 or two as well -- but the wife is getting antsy to clear the basement, so any takers speak up soon...
