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Eitan Hirsch  
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 More options Jun 13 2006, 11:08 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Eitan Hirsch" <eitan...@alum.cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:08:54 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 13 2006 11:08 pm
Subject: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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we're currently running matlab 7.1 (32-bit) on a 32-bit processor,
and we're thinking of upgrading our system.
can anyone help with the following questions:

1. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 32-bit Matlab on
a 64-bit processor (like the opteron)?

2. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 64-bit Matlab on
a 64-bit processor?

3. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 64-bit Matlab on
a Dual-core 64-bit processor?

4. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 64-bit Matlab on
2 Dual-core 64-bit processor?

i'm pretty lost here, so any help would be appreciated.
thanks,
eitan


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stu  
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 More options Jun 14 2006, 1:26 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: stu <na_t...@stu-mail.um.ac.ir>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 01:26:56 EDT
Local: Wed, Jun 14 2006 1:26 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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> we're currently running matlab 7.1 (32-bit) on a
> 32-bit processor,
> and we're thinking of upgrading our system.
> can anyone help with the following questions:

> 1. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the
> 32-bit Matlab on
> a 64-bit processor (like the opteron)?

nothing. just the advantage of the 64-bit system.

> 2. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the
> 64-bit Matlab on
> a 64-bit processor?

hopefully you will not be interrupted by the family of "out of memory" errors in matlab


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Steve Amphlett  
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 More options Jun 14 2006, 5:07 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Steve Amphlett" <Firstname.Lastname@where_I_work.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:07:29 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 14 2006 5:07 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Eitan Hirsch wrote:

> we're currently running matlab 7.1 (32-bit) on a 32-bit processor,
> and we're thinking of upgrading our system.
> can anyone help with the following questions:

> 1. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 32-bit Matlab
> on
> a 64-bit processor (like the opteron)?

> 2. what are the advantages (if any) of operating the 64-bit Matlab
> on
> a 64-bit processor?

Leaving aside the obvious memory and/or large file handling issues,
you may be surprised at benchmark results. I know of some codes that
run slower when compiled 64-bit. I also know some that run faster
(I'm not talking ML here, just our own simulation codes written using
a mix of Fortran/C/C++). If I were you I'd install both versions and
benchmark your ML scripts.

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Predictor  
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 More options Jun 14 2006, 6:12 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Predictor" <predi...@bellatlantic.net>
Date: 14 Jun 2006 03:12:57 -0700
Local: Wed, Jun 14 2006 6:12 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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I suggest checking benchmarking already performed by others.  Try, for
instance, searching for terms such as:

    MATLAB 32 64 benchmark

...on places like:

AllTheWeb (http://www.alltheweb.com)

-Will Dwinnell
http://will.dwinnell.com


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Titus Edelhofer  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 5:54 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Titus Edelhofer" <titus.edelho...@mathworks.de>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:54:54 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 5:54 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Hi,

1. should behave more or less the same as on a PC (only that the
opteron even as 32bit is fast!)

2. 64-bit MATLAB handles matrices up to 16 GB of memory!

3. nothing

4. not much, only that the 2nd processor can be used for other work
while MATLAB is using 100% of the first

Titus

"Eitan Hirsch" <eitan...@alum.cs.huji.ac.il> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ef39540.-1@webcrossing.raydaftYaTP...


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the cyclist  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 8:52 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "the cyclist" <thecycl...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:52:07 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 8:52 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Titus Edelhofer wrote:
> 2. 64-bit MATLAB handles matrices up to 16 GB of memory!

The dreaded Out of Memory error occurs primarily because of the 2^32
limit on addressable space, which is a 4 GB limit. (There are
further restrictions due to use of that space by the operating
system.)

On a 64-bit machine, the addressable-space issue arises not at 16 GB,
but at 2^64 bytes, or about 10^19 bytes! (That's 16 exabytes, I
think.)

Therefore, the more fundamental memory limitation goes back to the
machine's memory limit, amount of swap space, etc.


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Titus Edelhofer  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 9:01 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Titus Edelhofer" <titus.edelho...@mathworks.de>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:01:08 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 9:01 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Hi,
yes and no: the (lexicographical) array-index is (at least for R14, not
exactly sure for R2006a) a 32-bit counter, which limits a single
matrix to 2^31-1 elements.
But yes, you can have plenty of them, provided your memory is
large enough... ;-)

Titus

"the cyclist" <thecycl...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ef39540.4@webcrossing.raydaftYaTP...


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Eric Sampson  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 9:04 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Eric Sampson" <ericNOSPM.samp...@mathworks.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:04:09 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 9:04 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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I think what Titus was referring to was that the largest array size
(2^31-1 elements, at least for now) that you can create takes up 16
GB of memory if it contains non-complex double values.

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Steve Amphlett  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 9:18 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Steve Amphlett" <Firstname.Lastname@where_I_work.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:18:01 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 9:18 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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This limitation exists in most 64-bit software that uses integers for
array indexing. Although you have 64-bit pointers, you still only
have 32-bit integers.

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berniecr@clarkson.edu  
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 More options Jun 16 2006, 2:33 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "berni...@clarkson.edu" <berni...@clarkson.edu>
Date: 16 Jun 2006 11:33:15 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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if you can afford it, get a two processor system.  1) you can do other
things on the computer at the same time, and 2) you can run 2 copies of
matlab at the same time, doubling your productivity, if you could use
such a thing.  I know I'd like to be able to run two simulations per
night.  My license allows me to have two copies running simultaneously,
you'd have to check about your license.  Sometimes I let my personal
laptop run a simulation in addition to the work machine, but it's half
the speed for the algorithm i use.

MATLAB isn't multithreaded, so the programs run need to be independent.
 It might be possible to rewrite your simulation to work in parallel,
but the two copies can only communicate through files.


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Antoine Godbille  
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 More options Jun 27 2006, 12:04 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Antoine Godbille" <a.a.g.godbi...@cranfield.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:04:25 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 27 2006 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Hello,

I am running a simulation on a 64 bits AMD processor. My model is
implemented in Simulink. In Simulink ../configuration
parameters/hardware implementation, there is not the possibility to
choose a 64 bits implementation. Does it mean my simulation is
effectively limited to 32 bits ?

Many thanks in advance


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Antoine Godbille  
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 More options Jun 27 2006, 12:08 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Antoine Godbille" <a.a.g.godbi...@cranfield.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:08:04 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 27 2006 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Antoine Godbille wrote:

> Hello,

> I am running a simulation on a 64 bits AMD processor. My model is
> implemented in Simulink. In Simulink ../configuration
> parameters/hardware implementation, there is not the possibility to
> choose a 64 bits implementation. Does it mean my simulation is
> effectively limited to 32 bits ?

> Many thanks in advance

I forgot to mention that I was of course running a 64 bits version of
Matlab.

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Steve Amphlett  
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 More options Jun 27 2006, 4:38 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Steve Amphlett" <m...@home.now>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:38:53 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 27 2006 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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You also forgot to mention why you thought you might benefit from a
64-bit version of Matlab.

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Discussion subject changed to "SDA" by da
da  
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 More options Jul 14 2006, 6:33 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: da <fd...@fdasd.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:33:17 -0400
Local: Fri, Jul 14 2006 6:33 am
Subject: SDA
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ddg  
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 More options Jul 23 2006, 1:54 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: ddg <swt...@fhfry.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:54:50 -0400
Local: Sun, Jul 23 2006 1:54 am
Subject: Re: SDA
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reg  
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 More options Jul 24 2006, 8:51 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: reg <l...@163.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:51:16 -0400
Local: Mon, Jul 24 2006 8:51 am
Subject: Re: SDA
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Discussion subject changed to "FWEWW" by ewwef
ewwef  
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 More options Jul 31 2006, 10:51 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: ewwef <d...@163.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:51:46 -0400
Local: Mon, Jul 31 2006 10:51 am
Subject: FWEWW
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dhfg  
View profile   Translate to Translated (View Original)
 More options Aug 9 2006, 6:11 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: dhfg <d...@16dfg3.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 06:11:11 -0400
Local: Wed, Aug 9 2006 6:11 am
Subject: FWEWW
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ERH  
View profile   Translate to Translated (View Original)
 More options Aug 10 2006, 2:24 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: ERH <d...@16dfg3.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:24:12 -0400
Local: Thurs, Aug 10 2006 2:24 am
Subject: Re: FWEWW
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Discussion subject changed to "32-bit Vs 64-bit questions" by sfcs
sfcs  
View profile   Translate to Translated (View Original)
 More options Aug 10 2006, 3:49 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: sfcs <d...@rgv.cn>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:49:46 -0400
Local: Thurs, Aug 10 2006 3:49 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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Discussion subject changed to "FWEWW" by efxzcs
efxzcs  
View profile   Translate to Translated (View Original)
 More options Aug 10 2006, 3:53 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: efxzcs <z...@frbd.cn>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:53:13 -0400
Local: Thurs, Aug 10 2006 3:53 am
Subject: Re: FWEWW
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xdv  
View profile   Translate to Translated (View Original)
 More options Aug 11 2006, 8:44 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: xdv <x...@dbdb.cn>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 08:44:30 -0400
Local: Fri, Aug 11 2006 8:44 am
Subject: Re: FWEWW
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Discussion subject changed to "32-bit Vs 64-bit questions" by Steve Womble
Steve Womble  
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 More options Aug 11 2006, 1:10 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Steve Womble" <wom...@comp.leeds.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:10:56 -0400
Local: Fri, Aug 11 2006 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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If you work with double precision (i.e. 64bit) floating point (dpfp)
intensive code, then you will find a decent speed up in the execution
of mex files compiled using a 64bit compiler running on a 64bit
platform running a 64bit OS. Using an Intel PD (and XP-64bit edition,
MS compiler) I get roughly a 1.5 to 3 times improvement over 32bit
execution of dpfp intensive code. The speed up comes from being able
to perform arithmetic operations directly on all 64bits in a single
clock cycle rather than taking several cycles to update a 64bit datum
which in 32bit systems needs to be broken down operated on in chuncks
and then recombined.

Note my experience of this is for using C based mex binaries, and not
Matlab itself of which I am not certain... Since historically in
Matlab everything is/was treated as a 64bit array, one may think we'd
see some improvement in execution times, but maybe this is less
relevant to recent releases.

Rgds,
Steve


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Discussion subject changed to "FWEWW" by dfghjkl
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 More options Aug 11 2006, 9:52 pm
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: dfghjkl <d...@16dfg3.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 21:52:35 -0400
Local: Fri, Aug 11 2006 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: FWEWW
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Discussion subject changed to "32-bit Vs 64-bit questions" by Gerald Dalley
Gerald Dalley  
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 More options Aug 12 2006, 1:13 am
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.matlab
From: "Gerald Dalley" <dall...@mit.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 01:13:09 -0400
Local: Sat, Aug 12 2006 1:13 am
Subject: Re: 32-bit Vs 64-bit questions
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For #1 & #2, I agree with others: benchmark your apps. For my own
C++ code, I've gotten huge speedups with 64-bit code (esp. because
the compiler gets to play with double the number of general purpose
registers). I've gotten mixed results with m-files. Some are a
little faster, some a little slower in 64-bit mode. Be forewarned
that the bench script that ships with matlab weighs graphics
performance heavily.

The only real advantage of running 32-bit matlab is if you need to
use mex files that link to 32-bit-only 3rd party libraries. A single
process cannot run both 32-bit and 64-bit code. I've run into this
issue with some mex functions that use video codecs, most of which
aren't available (yet) in 64-bit.

An advantage of a 2-proc, 2-core system is that you can easily run
four Matlab sessions simulateously at full speed, *if* you buy enough
memory and if you are CPU-bound, not I/O-bound. You also have just
one machine to configure and maintain instead of 2 or 4. The
downside is that this can be a very expensive way to go, especially
if you have non-trivial memory needs. For example, if you want each
session to be able to access 2GB quickly, then you'll want to buy 8GB
of RAM. It's often cheaper to buy two single-proc, 2-core systems
with 4GB of RAM than a single 2-proc, 2-core system with 8GB.

The other possible advantage of increasing the number of cores
(beyond just being able to do other stuff with the machine) is that
you can apparently replace some of the core math libraries Matlab
uses with multi-threaded ones. This doesn't change the way Matlab
works, as seen by M-files, but for certain operations, it can give
more speedups with more cores. Search around if you're interested in
doing this (I haven't bothered trying it out yet).


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