Question About CallerID
Bernie Cosell
of callers with unlisted numbers?
I think it may vary by region, but the folks served by Bell Atlantic
are told:
{\bf Note}: If you are in an equipped area and you call someone
within your Bell Atlantic Regional Calling Area who has {\bf Caller
ID}, your number will be shown on their display unit even if you do
not have the service and even if your number is {\bf non-published}
or {\bf non-listed}.
--
Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com
Fantasy Farm Fibers, Pearisburg, VA (703) 921-2358
Kevin Kadow
of callers with unlisted numbers?
At least in Chicago, not only will Caller ID give the number, but CID
with name gives the name for any caller, listed or unlisted, who
they've got around to entering into their database- unfortunately the
database seems to be consistently a few months behind reality.
--
kad...@ripco.com Kevin Kadow
FREE Usenet/Mail, inexpensive Internet - Ripco... Wearing white hats since 1983
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Francoys Crepeau
of callers with unlisted numbers?
Yup! It'll even display most long-distance numbers! However, the
number will be displayed as unavailable under some conditions, such as:
caller routed thru a PBX, caller in an exchange with old switching
equipment, etc.
Also, the phone company will (in Canada, at least) make available to
you, upon request (and at no charge) the option of preceding your call
with *67 (different on rotary), which will make the receiving party's
call display show "PRIVATE #". This was in response to people bitching
about their inability to make calls while still keeping their unlisted
number unlisted.
Because of the great number of non-technologically-inclined people
around, I still get the occasional "How did you get my unlisted
number????" reactions when I return some people's calls when they
haven't even left any msg.
I am curious as to what the situation is outside Canada for caller-id,
call-return and these other bells and whistles...
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
| Francoys Crepeau, Ottawa, Canada (613) 565-7198 (VOICE) |
| aa...@freenet.carleton.ca (613) 565-7199 (FAX) |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Dunn, MSD
of callers with unlisted numbers?
This is the primary reason for all the legal challanges to the caller
id service. People who have unlisted numbers would be giving out their
numbers unless there is a mechanism of blocking the number.
A big advantage of having per id blocking on a call by call basis is
that it would be prohibitively expensive for a telemarketing company to
block their number. People could then stop answering calls from them
when they see the number. Downside is that if you had an unlisted
number you would have dial extra numbers for every call to block your
number going out.
The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number. And telemarkters would pay a one time fee to block the number
so you would be in the same boat you are now. Pick up phone, listen to
pitch, hang-up rudely...
Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled since
the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they own the
call and have the right to getting your number. So, how do you handle
not giving out your unlisted number when you call an 800 number, even
when you pay to have your number blocked??
Wendy Resnik
of callers with unlisted numbers?
I think it depends on what state you are in. In many states, including
Wisconsin where I live, unlisted and unpublished numbers are displayed
with Caller ID. Unpublished/unlisted numbers are unrelated to Caller ID
in the sense that when you pay for this you are paying not to be in the
directory and/or not to have your number given out by Information.
Some poeple assume that unpublished means it doesn't display on Caller
ID b, but it ain't so.
Mark Malson
of callers with unlisted numbers?
Depends. I had an unlisted number here in Cincinnati, and I was told
that when we got Caller ID, my number would squawk "PRIVATE". Well,
were we surprised when my wife called my sister-in-law and she
answered, "Hello, Karla." Our number _was_ being sent to Caller ID
boxes. I called the phone company and they told me that I had to
specifically ASK them to not transmit my number, even though my number
is unlisted. I then ASKED them to do it, and they informed me that
there would be a $6.00 service charge! I told them that I had been
paying extra for privacy that I was told I would have yet did not, and
now they want to soak me for more to get what I should have had in the
first place! I asked for her supervisor who was apparently pretty
busy, so she just went ahead and waived the fee.
The bottom line is, you have to ASK for it, even if your number is
unlisted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Mark D. Malson \ A Devil's Dictionary for Democrats: \
Xetron Corporation \ \
460 W. Crescentville Rd. \ affordable (adj.) - Of or regarding debts due \
Cincinnati, Ohio 45246 \ after the elections eight years hence. \
ma...@xetron.com \
\
----------------------------------------------------------------------------!
Al Stangenberger
'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted
the caller id service. People who have unlisted numbers would be
giving out their numbers unless there is a mechanism of blocking
the number.
The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number.
911 uses a different service, ANI (Automatic Number Identification)
which cannot be blocked.
Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled
since the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they
own the call and have the right to getting your number.
Again, 800-numbers use ANI which is not affected by CNID blocking.
--
Al Stangenberger Univ. of California at Berkeley
for...@nature.berkeley.edu Dept. of Env. Sci., Policy, & Mgt.
BITNET: FORAGS AT UCBNATUR 145 Mulford Hall # 3114
(510) 642-4424 FAX: (510) 643-5438 Berkeley, CA 94720-3114
Bernie Cosell
the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? This is the
primary reason for all the legal challanges to the caller id
service. People who have unlisted numbers would be giving out their
numbers unless there is a mechanism of blocking the number.
But there's an interesting standoff [at least here in Bell Atlantic
land]. One option you can purchase is "refused blocked calls". So
you, with your unpub number, may discover that you're caught between a
rock and a hard place: either you give out your unpub number, or you
can't call the person _at_all_.
Dean Ridgway
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number so you would be in the same boat you are now. Pick up phone,
listen to pitch, hang-up rudely...
This is incorrect, 911 calls have realtime ANI like 800 #'s and CAN'T
be blocked. As far as telemarketers go, ask them to remove you from
their list, if they continue to call (or if its a robo-call) then
(don't know about availability in other states) start hitting *57 (call
trace) which logs the number with the phone company as a harassing
call. After three such logs the phone company is usually obliged to
take action (usually by threatening to cancel their phone service).
So, how do you handle not giving out your unlisted number when you
call an 800 number, even when you pay to have your number
blocked??
Four choices; don't call 800 #'s, sacrific privacy (they will get
everything they want from your credit card anyway if your ordering
anything), use one of the ANI stripping call forwarding services, use a
different phone (pay phone).
What bothers me is the fact that even non-published numbers are. I
recently called a local pizza place which I have NEVER patronized
before, they asked for my name (reasonable since I was having a pizza
delivered) and in less than a second they had my address and
unpublished phone number. CallerID doesn't start here for another week
or so and I'm line-blocked. I was too shocked to ask them how they got
this information.
Dean Ridgway | FidoNet 1:357/1.103 | InterNet rid...@csos.orst.edu
| CIS 73225,512 |
Dave Niebuhr, BNL CCD, 516-282-3093
'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted
call basis is that it would be prohibitively expensive for a
telemarketing company to block their number. People could then stop
answering calls from them when they see the number. Downside is
that if you had an unlisted number you would have dial extra
numbers for every call to block your number going out.
Not necessarily true. If the call is coming through a PBX or Centrex,
the number more than likely will either show a bogus number (a line on
an outgoing trunk and not related to the physical) or show the message
"OUT OF AREA" as what is displayed on my CID unit.
The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number. And telemarkters would pay a one time fee to block the
number so you would be in the same boat you are now. Pick up phone,
listen to pitch, hang-up rudely...
The 911 situation depends on what type of system is installed at the
receiving site. If it is "normal" 911, then the number won't be shown;
if, on the other hand, the system is "Enhanced 911 or E911" then more
than likely the number will be shown. I like the E911 system much
better than the normal one.
Example: My almost three-year-old grandson is in the process of
learning how to use the phone for calling for help if an emergency
exists (using a play phone of course). Suppose something happens and
he has to use that system for real. He'll be panicky enough without
being taken through a maze of questions and if the number is displayed,
it can be cross-referenced to get its location.
Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled
since the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they
own the call and have the right to getting your number. So, how do
you handle not giving out your unlisted number when you call an 800
number, even when you pay to have your number blocked??
You can't. If I'm paying for a call, then I want to know just where
the number is located and who owns it. If I'm paying to give you the
privilege of calling me, then why can't I know where you are and what
your phone number is. Don't call me collect if you don't want your
number made known to me. To me that is fair.
Dave Niebuhr Internet: d...@dwn.ccd.bnl.gov (preferred)
nie...@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Senior Technical Specialist, Scientific Computing Facility
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973 1+(516) 282-3093
FAX 1+(516) 282-7688
Paul Robinson
ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers?
Yes. All "unlisted numbers" are is numbers the phone company doesn't
publish the information about. Technically there is no difference in
service between listed and unlisted numbers.
---
Paul Robinson - Pa...@TDR.COM
Voted "Largest Polluter of the (IETF) list" by Randy Bush <ra...@psg.com>
Paul Robinson
per id blocking on a call by call basis is that it would be
prohibitively expensive for a telemarketing company to block their
number.
It's 'prohibitively expensive' for a telemarketer to either use
outgoing-only lines (which return a message saying the line does not
accept incoming calls) or to have their phones dial *67 first, before
each outgoing call? There is no charge to place *67 before a dialed
call.
The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number.
911 is supposed to use a different system and should not be blocked at
all.
Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled
since the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they
own the call and have the right to getting your number. So, how do
you handle not giving out your unlisted number when you call an 800
number, even when you pay to have your number blocked??
This has been possible for many years, and it's only been since people
found out about it that there was a problem. I believe the new FCC
ruling on CID has included this issue by restricting use of the ANI
information to limited circumstances.
I have an 800 number, and at the end of the month, along with the bill,
AT&T sends me a list of every telephone number that called my number.
Roy M. Silvernail
writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers
challanges to the caller id service. People who have unlisted
numbers would be giving out their numbers unless there is a
mechanism of blocking the number.
But there's an interesting standoff [at least here in Bell Atlantic
land]. One option you can purchase is "refused blocked calls".
As a point of information, USWest Minneapolis offers this as a no-cost
feature of the basic CNID subscription (and it defaults to 'on', which
I thought was a nice touch).
So you, with your unpub number, may discover that you're caught
between a rock and a hard place: either you give out your unpub
number, or you can't call the person _at_all_.
I'm afraid I don't see the problem. This is a simple and (at long
last) equitable negotiation. If you want to call me, and I'm blocking
anonymous calls, you have to send ID. The fact is, I don't block anon
calls now. But I will most assuredly let my answering machine take
anything that shows "PRIVATE" on the ID box. If you know me, I
probably already know your number. If you don't know me, why are you
concealing your telephonic "face" when calling? I don't see CNID
delivery as publishing.
--
Roy M. Silvernail | #include <stdio.h> | PGP 2.3 public
r...@sendai.cybrspc.mn.org | main(){ | key available
| int x=486; | upon request
| printf("Just my '%d.\n",x);} | (send yours)
makyen
not only will Caller ID give the number, but CID with name gives
the name for any caller, listed or unlisted, who they've got around
to entering into their database- unfortunately the database seems
to be consistently a few months behind reality.
In California, the PUC ruled that if the local carrier is going
to provide CID to customers then it must do the following:
Two types of line categories:
A. CID is normally blocked
Can unblock on a per-call basis with correct
*## code, as spec'ed by Bellcore (*68 as I
recall).
B. CID is normally unblocked
Can block with correct *## code, as spec'ed
by Bellcore (*67 as I recall).
Upon setup of CID service all lines must be assigned to A & B
as follows:
All currently unlisted numbers placed in category A.
All currently listed numbers placed in category B.
A charge is permitted to change from A to B.
Based on this ruling, PacBell, the largest provider in California,
has stated that they will _NOT_ provide CID service because complying
with the PUc ruling would be too expensive. I have heard PacBell
complain about this ruling because "other 800 line providers
are not required to do this".
makyen
Bob Snyder
interesting standoff [at least here in Bell Atlantic land]. One
your unpub number, may discover that you're caught between a rock
and a hard place: either you give out your unpub number, or you
can't call the person _at_all_.
This is, IMHO, a fairly good trade off. You can protect your number,
but I don't have to take the call.
As far as I know, BA provides this service for free, if you have Caller
ID. At least, that's the case for Bell Atlantic - New Jersey. It
doesn't make sense to have the service without Caller ID.
However, you can still call the person without revealing your number:
Use a pay phone.
--
Bob Snyder N2KGO MIME, RIPEM mail accepted
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