> Amazing how a number of credit-card sized computers can emulate a VAX
> 3900. :-)
> --
> Tactical Nuclear Kittens
Or, as I wrote on Jul 28th in this very ng:
"SIMH can be built for ARM Linux, who wants a VAX in their pocket for
£30 plus the hobbyist licence and a few sundries ? Or a VMScluster in
their pocket for £60? Of course if you had two Android smartphones you
could already VMScluster them courtesy of SIMH...
Marvel-ous. Oh hang on, Marvel was Alpha not VAX. Whatever.
64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
Also not sure where Microsoft's (re-)entry into the world of ARM, with
Windows RT or whatever it's called this week, will lead Microsoft and
their "business partners" such as HP.
> 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
That did really caught my attention as well. I hope HP is paying
attention and might do something useful with it, some day. I, for
one, wouldn't 'mind' to see an OpenVMS ARM some day... (Allow a
man to dream!)
> > Amazing how a number of credit-card sized computers can emulate a
> VAX 3900. :-)
[ snip ]
> Or, as I wrote on Jul 28th in this very ng:
Er, sorry I hadn't seen that post!
> 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
Big things, I hope. It's mostly to increase the amount of physically
accessible memory without having to introduce virtual paging as that's
expensive to support without backing storage.
> Also not sure where Microsoft's (re-)entry into the world of ARM, with
> Windows RT or whatever it's called this week, will lead Microsoft and
> their "business partners" such as HP.
I've got a big annoyance with HP; they won't sell their better laptops
in the UK that they currently sell in the US. For example, the rather
nice HP 17.3" dv7t quad 3rd gen 3770k laptop, with a proper 1080p
display for just $800 (with rebates). The HP ones sold over here are
mostly junk with 1366x768 displays and a few overpriced 1600x900 ones. -- Tactical Nuclear Kittens
> > > Amazing how a number of credit-card sized computers can emulate a
> > VAX 3900. :-)
> [ snip ]
> > Or, as I wrote on Jul 28th in this very ng:
> Er, sorry I hadn't seen that post!
> > 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
> Big things, I hope. It's mostly to increase the amount of physically
> accessible memory without having to introduce virtual paging as that's
> expensive to support without backing storage.
> > Also not sure where Microsoft's (re-)entry into the world of ARM, with
> > Windows RT or whatever it's called this week, will lead Microsoft and
> > their "business partners" such as HP.
> I've got a big annoyance with HP; they won't sell their better laptops
> in the UK that they currently sell in the US. For example, the rather
> nice HP 17.3" dv7t quad 3rd gen 3770k laptop, with a proper 1080p
> display for just $800 (with rebates). The HP ones sold over here are
> mostly junk with 1366x768 displays and a few overpriced 1600x900 ones.
> --
> Tactical Nuclear Kittens
You'd not seen that post because it was buried deep in the depths
somewhere.
Your post isn't buried in the depths, and the important part of mine
is more visible now too, thanks.
It's all good :)
Wrt laptops: I don't really do laptops (even though I've had a
different one every few years starting with the DEC Hinote 486/33
model?), but every laptop I've owned for a decade or more has been CPQ
(Armada E500) or HPQ business class models, in part because of decent
Linux support.
My current HPQ 6715 (2008ish, bought cheap as "new but obsolete") has
recently developed a nasty intermittent lockup, perhaps after falling
off a chair (whilst in its bag). I've just bought a refurb 6910 [1]
(same era) to keep me going till ARM takes over the world ;)
Nothing I do on a laptop needs the latest x86 CPU/memory technology
but it's handy to have reasonably robust kit with product-family
similarities and Linux support.
I'm also happy to buy non-current kit because I have a strong
suspicion that the current HPQ business laptops aren't really a match
for the older stuff in terms of quality.
The point of telling you this: most of the HP business class laptops
aren't very country-specific (unlike the consumer stuff?) and bargains
are occasionally available if they happen to meet your requirements.
I've still got an ARM-based HP Jornada 720 (vintage 2002?), mostly
unused these days. Size around a Psion 5, built in modem, PCMCIA slot,
CF slot, though without much of the Psion goodness (e.g. kbd and
battery life didn't match Psion). Sadly it was severely hampered by
the Windows-CE-based "Handheld PC" OS which was abandoned by MS soon
after it was introduced. You can reportedly get a Linux for it
(jlime), having a go with that has been on my "todo" list for a
loooong time but...
What you could do with a modern J720 equivalent with built in phone
and decent non-MS software doesn't bear thinking about. I'm not yet
sure Android classes as decent software for that kind of thing (nor am
I sure about Google as a trustworthy supplier). Maybe Android's OKish
for smartphones (not as solid as Symbian S60, RIP, but with way more
options), but my limited experience with Android on a cheap tablet
says it's not quite there yet for my needs. A full ARM Linux would
suit me fine for my requirements.
I had wondered if the MS introduction of an ARM standard platform
specification for 2012 rather than 2002 might improve matters in terms
of hardware compatibility for ARM Linux but as far as I can tell these
new MS ARM systems have to be effectively locked to Windows on ARM
(cryptographic boot checks etc). Not nice, but that's MS.
Enjoy.
[1] http://www.misco.co.uk/Product/188666/Tier1-HP-6910P-Windows-7-Home-R... is
2GB, 80GB, 1440x900, £180 inc. Similar models available elsewhere,
e.g. Morgan Computers has them slightly cheaper but with Vista and who
wants that. Screen resolutions may vary in the range, check the
QuickSpecs and model details. Obviously far from latest/greatest, but
fine for my needs. YMMV.
> On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 12:39 -0700, John Wallace wrote:
[snip...]
>> > 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
[snip...]
> Maybe Android's OKish
> for smartphones (not as solid as Symbian S60, RIP, but with way more
> options), but my limited experience with Android on a cheap tablet
> says it's not quite there yet for my needs. A full ARM Linux would
> suit me fine for my requirements.
I am waiting for a Linux replacement for Android on my smartphone. Android is fast becoming as restrictive as iOS.
>> On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 12:39 -0700, John Wallace wrote:
> [snip...]
>>> > 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
> [snip...]
>> Maybe Android's OKish
>> for smartphones (not as solid as Symbian S60, RIP, but with way more
>> options), but my limited experience with Android on a cheap tablet
>> says it's not quite there yet for my needs. A full ARM Linux would
>> suit me fine for my requirements.
> I am waiting for a Linux replacement for Android on my smartphone. > Android
> is fast becoming as restrictive as iOS.
> Amazing how a number of credit-card sized computers can emulate a VAX
> 3900. :-)
Port VMS to ARM.
-- May joy be yours all the days of your life! - Phina
We are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass. - The Youngbloods
Those who eat natural foods die of natural causes. - Kperspective
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 12:39:19 -0700, John Wallace wrote:
> Or, as I wrote on Jul 28th in this very ng:
> "SIMH can be built for ARM Linux, who wants a VAX in their pocket for
> £30 plus the hobbyist licence and a few sundries ? Or a VMScluster in
> their pocket for £60? Of course if you had two Android smartphones you
> could already VMScluster them courtesy of SIMH...
> Marvel-ous. Oh hang on, Marvel was Alpha not VAX. Whatever.
> 64bit ARM on the way before too long, not sure where that will lead.
> Also not sure where Microsoft's (re-)entry into the world of ARM, with
> Windows RT or whatever it's called this week, will lead Microsoft and
> their "business partners" such as HP.
> Interesting times.
From the "MS Hardware Certification Requirements" found here:
"17. Mandatory. On non-ARM systems, the platform MUST implement the ability for a physically present user to select between two Secure Boot modes in firmware setup: "Custom" and "Standard" ...
18. Mandatory. Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv.
...
Disabling Secure Boot must not be possible on ARM systems."
That appears to me to mean that any ARM devices certified for Windows RT might be stuck with Windows. However see Hoff's article about Fedora's thoughts:
"Fedora, UEFI and Secure (Digitally-signed) UEFI Bootstraps"
On 2012-08-09, Mazzini Alessandro <mazzinia$...@tin.it> wrote:
> I can actually run debian or ubuntu on my phone relatively simply, in a > separate card...
[snip...]
> "brad" <b...@coyote.home.earwicker> ha scritto nel messaggio >> I am waiting for a Linux replacement for Android on my smartphone. >> Android
>> is fast becoming as restrictive as iOS.
I'm looking for a complete replacement - my understanding of the current
Ubuntu offering is that it's meant to run "side-by-side" with Android,
and to use some kind of docking apparatus with a laptop/desktop. I want
a smartphone where I have complete control over its contents and apps,
and still be able to use it as a phone.
Tizen seems to meet my needs, but it is only version 1.0. We know what software version N.0 means, don't we??? : - )
On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 21:37 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
> "17. Mandatory. On non-ARM systems, the platform MUST implement the > ability for a physically present user to select between two Secure
> Boot > modes in firmware setup: "Custom" and "Standard" ...
> 18. Mandatory. Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is > required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware > setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure
> Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv.
They're locking down ARM systems to prevent people buying cheap Windows
ones and installing Linux on them, that's what I'm thinking. -- Tactical Nuclear Kittens
On Aug 10, 1:22 am, Single Stage to Orbit <alex.bu...@munted.eu>
wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 21:37 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
> > "17. Mandatory. On non-ARM systems, the platform MUST implement the
> > ability for a physically present user to select between two Secure
> > Boot
> > modes in firmware setup: "Custom" and "Standard" ...
> > 18. Mandatory. Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is
> > required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware
> > setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure
> > Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv.
> They're locking down ARM systems to prevent people buying cheap Windows
> ones and installing Linux on them, that's what I'm thinking.
> --
> Tactical Nuclear Kittens
Given that apps for these boxes will only be available through the app
store, I'm guessing the boxes will be sold cheap (subsidised?) and
apps in the app store will be overpriced to make up the difference.
Letting people install Linux (or, heaven forbid, the Android they've
seen on their phones and tablets) destroys the profit for MS in that
market.
There's also an undercurrent of something going on between MS and the
x86-dependent outfits wrt the business desktop and laptop market.
Allegedly the Windows on ARM OS won't authenticate onto a domain.
What's the core prequisite in a Windows-based company or organisation?
Domains, Active Directory, etc. So if you want your desktop or
portable device to authenticate against a domain, you still need it to
be x86 based (at least for now)? Why might that be? There's no
technical reason I've seen so far (although there is the idea that
Windows 8 is irrelevant to businesses in general).
Ah, actually I was thinking about the implementation under webos. I'm not sure if the android and webos approach to having ubuntu ( or debian ) run, is the same.
webos requires to repartition the internal ssd, adding an ext3 partition of choice ( as dimension ) where the chrooted ubuntu 11 or debian can be installed. That done, is just a question of running xterm and add packages and a window manager. You still have the smartphone working as a phone... webos is decent at multitasking
> On 2012-08-09, Mazzini Alessandro <mazzinia$...@tin.it> wrote:
>> I can actually run debian or ubuntu on my phone relatively simply, in a
>> separate card...
> [snip...]
>> "brad" <b...@coyote.home.earwicker> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> I am waiting for a Linux replacement for Android on my smartphone.
>>> Android
>>> is fast becoming as restrictive as iOS.
> I'm looking for a complete replacement - my understanding of the current
> Ubuntu offering is that it's meant to run "side-by-side" with Android,
> and to use some kind of docking apparatus with a laptop/desktop. I want
> a smartphone where I have complete control over its contents and apps,
> and still be able to use it as a phone.
> Tizen seems to meet my needs, but it is only version 1.0. We know what
> software version N.0 means, don't we??? : - )
On Fri, 2012-08-10 at 02:05 -0700, John Wallace wrote:
> > They're locking down ARM systems to prevent people buying cheap > > Windows ones and installing Linux on them, that's what I'm thinking.
> Given that apps for these boxes will only be available through the app
> store, I'm guessing the boxes will be sold cheap (subsidised?) and
> apps in the app store will be overpriced to make up the difference.
> Letting people install Linux (or, heaven forbid, the Android they've
> seen on their phones and tablets) destroys the profit for MS in that
> market.
Indeed. Which leads me to the next:
> There's also an undercurrent of something going on between MS and the
> x86-dependent outfits wrt the business desktop and laptop market.
> Allegedly the Windows on ARM OS won't authenticate onto a domain.
> What's the core prequisite in a Windows-based company or organisation?
> Domains, Active Directory, etc. So if you want your desktop or
> portable device to authenticate against a domain, you still need it to
> be x86 based (at least for now)? Why might that be? There's no
> technical reason I've seen so far (although there is the idea that
> Windows 8 is irrelevant to businesses in general).
M$ have shot themselves in the foot by crippling Windows 8 on ARM IMHO.
-- Tactical Nuclear Kittens
> On 2012-08-09, Mazzini Alessandro <mazzinia$...@tin.it> wrote:
>> I can actually run debian or ubuntu on my phone relatively simply, in a
>> separate card...
> [snip...]
>> "brad" <b...@coyote.home.earwicker> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> I am waiting for a Linux replacement for Android on my smartphone.
>>> Android
>>> is fast becoming as restrictive as iOS.
> I'm looking for a complete replacement - my understanding of the current
> Ubuntu offering is that it's meant to run "side-by-side" with Android,
> and to use some kind of docking apparatus with a laptop/desktop. I want
> a smartphone where I have complete control over its contents and apps,
> and still be able to use it as a phone.
> Tizen seems to meet my needs, but it is only version 1.0. We know what
> software version N.0 means, don't we??? : - )
It means it's a "major" release. Whether you want to run it is your decision. If it's the only phone that comes close to meeting your requirements you either relax your requirements or wait months or years
for a fully functional and stable software package.
Keep in mind that the fewer bells and whistles you get, the less there is to go wrong.
On 2012-08-13, Richard B. Gilbert <rgilber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 8/9/2012 7:40 PM, brad wrote:
[snip...]
> Tizen seems to meet my needs, but it is only version 1.0. We know what
>> software version N.0 means, don't we??? : - )
> It means it's a "major" release. Whether you want to run it is your > decision. If it's the only phone that comes close to meeting your > requirements you either relax your requirements or wait months or years
> for a fully functional and stable software package.
> Keep in mind that the fewer bells and whistles you get, the less there > is to go wrong.
Yep, my needs for a phone are not complicated. In descending order of
priority:
make and receive phone calls
music player (32Gb storage)
map/gps
browser
text/html file transfer
That's it - no texting, no games. My carrier hates me. : - )
