SMTP AUTH ?

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

HI.

My in-office VMS system have had my ISP's mail server as
smtp "Alternate Gateway" for some time. Has worked well.

Now, sine last week, this has stopped working. I now get :

---- Transcript of session follows ----

550 RCPT TO:<..> Relaying not allowed - please use SMTP AUTH

Now, as far as I can see there is no way to get the smtp
sender in TCP/Services to use SMTP AUTH, right ?

I have some other options I will investigate (such as using
the smtp tools in the Python port), but though I'd ask others
here about it.

I do not know if one need to run full TLS encryption on port
465, or if it enough to use the AUTH option on port 25.

Jan-Erik.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Update.
Got a short Python script working, based on the first example on:
http://docs.python.org/library/email-examples.html#email-examples

Just added a login(user, pw) right before the sendmail() command.

Now I will look att building some generic sendmail tool using
this platform. There is some mime tools in Python also so
adding handling of attachements seems quite doable.

Jan-Erik.

[Rich Jordan]

On Nov 7, 8:31 am, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
wrote:

Non-commercial? You could consider the hobbyist PMDF from Process, or
else the Community Edition Communigate Pro. The latter is, as far as
I can tell, not being upgraded for VMS any more (they won't confirm or
deny) but it works well and has the capability to handle SMTP-AUTH.
The older CGPro won't work cleanly for anything fancy (calendaring/
scheduling) in Android/IOS mobiles but basic email functionality will
be fine.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Yes, I thought a bit about mail packages like those.

But using the smtp tools in the (already installed) Python
port doesn't need any new product installes. And as I found
out, they was quite easy to use. But we'll see what
happens.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Rich Jordan wrote 2011-11-07 19:01:

> On Nov 7, 8:31 am, Jan-Erik Soderholm<jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
> wrote:
>> HI.
>>
>> My in-office VMS system have had my ISP's mail server as
>> smtp "Alternate Gateway" for some time. Has worked well.
>>
>> Now, sine last week, this has stopped working. I now get :
>>
>> ---- Transcript of session follows ----
>>
>> 550 RCPT TO:<..> Relaying not allowed - please use SMTP AUTH
>>
>> Now, as far as I can see there is no way to get the smtp
>> sender in TCP/Services to use SMTP AUTH, right ?
>>
>> I have some other options I will investigate (such as using
>> the smtp tools in the Python port), but though I'd ask others
>> here about it.
>>
>> I do not know if one need to run full TLS encryption on port
>> 465, or if it enough to use the AUTH option on port 25.
>>
>> Jan-Erik.
>
> Non-commercial?

Forgot to answer on that. Well, half non-commercial anyway...

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <j98q3s$i6$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> My in-office VMS system have had my ISP's mail server as
> smtp "Alternate Gateway" for some time. Has worked well.

Yes. Technically it's not necessary, but realistically, many people
block email from "personal" IP addresses since by far the most of them
are virus-infected Windows PCs sending spam.

> Now, sine last week, this has stopped working. I now get :
>
> ---- Transcript of session follows ----
>
> 550 RCPT TO:<..> Relaying not allowed - please use SMTP AUTH

I remember SMTP AUTH being required at most places a bit more than 10
years ago when I was setting things up at home...

> Now, as far as I can see there is no way to get the smtp
> sender in TCP/Services to use SMTP AUTH, right ?

...but that meant I couldn't use VMS.

> I have some other options I will investigate (such as using
> the smtp tools in the Python port), but though I'd ask others
> here about it.

My solution was to sign up with http://www.dynaccess.com/ (actually in
my case http://www.dynaccess.de/ but I'm guessing your English is better
than your German). This is mainly a dynamic-DNS provider, but I find
the service and prices much better than, say, DynDNS.org. I also find
it much easier to get an overview of which services are offered. (The
concept is a bit different: instead of mixing and matching, the more you
pay the more you get.) IIRC the "Business A" category gets you the SMTP
relay server. I've used it for almost a decade and it, and the entire
Dynaccess service, is top-notch.

This has nothing to do with my ISP, which is 1&1. I signed up with them
almost 11 years ago. At the time, they were the main competitor to the
formerly state-owned Deutsche Telekom, whom I wanted to get away from
after experiencing bad business practices after the privatization. I've
stayed with them since the service is good and they have a very good
NNTP server.

I use Dynaccess for dynamic-DNS and they also handle my domain
registration. (One can of course host other domains on the same IP
address with a different DNS provider.) The SMTP relay server is a big
plus. No authentication required---he knows my IP address since he
handles my DNS, and I can send stuff from that IP address with very
basic vanilla VMS SMTP (until recently, I also used whatever TCPIP came
with VMS VAX 7.3 as well).

If your interested in dynamic-DNS, Dynaccess is also a good choice.
Most dynamic-DNS places want you to update when your IP address changes.
This works at Dynaccess as well, but in addition you can update more
often (depending on how much you pay---the prices are very reasonable).
If expected updates don't come, you can have your domain switched to a
"neutral" IP (rather than risking some other person gets your old IP
address and everything sent to it) and also have backup MX servers kick
in.

I think they are worth checking out for the SMTP relay server alone, but
the other things might be interesting to you as well.

I am not using it yet, but there is also the possibility to update via
UTP every few seconds. If there are problems with the connection, then
they are noticed quickly and the appropriate steps are taken.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Thanks for the long reply !

Actualy, I use DynDNS for handling of my domain (jescab2.dyndns.org).
My ADSL line (well, actualy VDSL since last week, 60 Mb/s downsream and
12 Mb/s upsteam using my plain old phone line!) modem is setup to
automaticly update DynDNS whenever the public IP adress of my modem
changes. No problem with that. I myself always access my systems using
the domain so I would notice any problems. :-)

I will check what mail services DynDNS provides. I see no reason at the
moment to change dynamic DNS provider, but thanks for the tip.

Am I right that Dynaccess is only handling our *outgoing* mails, right ?

I have no problem *receiving* mails to "<some-user>@jescab2.dyndns.org".


Jan-Erik.

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <j99koa$45m$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> Actualy, I use DynDNS for handling of my domain (jescab2.dyndns.org).

You could actually continue to use this. At Dynaccess, you don't
actually need a "real" domain. I have my main one there, due to the
backup MX servers etc, but have others (at DynDNS) on the same IP
address.

> My ADSL line (well, actualy VDSL since last week, 60 Mb/s downsream and
> 12 Mb/s upsteam using my plain old phone line!)

What does that cost? I still have 16 downstream and 1 or 2 upstream
(can't remember right now.) Since until recently I had only 10 Mb/s
LAN, more speed would have helped only upstream, not downstream. I'm
sure more is available, but I haven't looked into it yet. (The next DSL
node or whatever it's called is only about 50 metres from my house, so
the connection is good quality and actually a bit faster than
advertised.)

> modem is setup to
> automaticly update DynDNS whenever the public IP adress of my modem
> changes. No problem with that. I myself always access my systems using
> the domain so I would notice any problems. :-)

Right. However, suppose that your IP address does not change, but there
is some network problem so that your systems are not reachable, or all
your systems are down or whatever. Better to have a backup MX server
kick in then deliver the mail when things are working again than to have
the message rejected. Or suppose there is a problem with updating your
DNS then your IP address changes. That could mean that mail to you goes
to the new IP. I think some mail systems are configured by default to
receive mail to any address, even yours.

> I will check what mail services DynDNS provides. I see no reason at the
> moment to change dynamic DNS provider, but thanks for the tip.

You can use just the SMTP relay server.

> Am I right that Dynaccess is only handling our *outgoing* mails, right ?

Yes.

Alternate gateway: SMTP-RELAY.DYNACCESS.DE

> I have no problem *receiving* mails to "<some-user>@jescab2.dyndns.org".

Same here. I have the router send incoming stuff to the cluster IP
address. However, if I am not reachable, for whatever reason, the
backup MX servers at Dynaccess kick in, so nothing is lost. (One can
configure ALL incoming mail to go through Dynaccess as well, though I
don't do this. If one does, then one can also activate a spam filter
there, choosing how strict it should operate.)

MAIL> spa tcpip sh host multivax.de

BIND database

Server: 192.168.1.9 FRITZLEIN

Host address Host name

217.226.78.100 MULTIVAX.DE

MAIL> spa tcpip sh mx multivax.de


BIND MX database


Server: 192.168.1.9 FRITZLEIN

Gate address Preference Gate name

217.226.78.100 10 multivax.dynaccess.net
217.114.73.109 15 mail-reject.DE
62.116.176.247 20 backup-mx1.DE
178.63.120.51 21 backup-mx2.DE

multivax.dynaccess.net also points to my IP address; this is similar to
the domains at DynDNS.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2011-11-08 10:45:

Cutting down bit on the content...

> In article<j99koa$45m$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> <jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
>
>> My ADSL line (well, actualy VDSL since last week, 60 Mb/s downsream and
>> 12 Mb/s upsteam using my plain old phone line!)
>
> What does that cost?

Earlier I had standard 8/1 ADSL wich costs 299 SEK (aprox 45 USD) a month.
To that comes the fixed cost for the phone, a total of aprox 66 USD a
month.

The new "30-60 Mb up" and "up to 12 Mb" down costs 599 SEK (aprox 90
USD a month), butt that also includes the phone as such (IP-phone).

My measured speeds from my laptop are aprox 59.5 Mb down and 11.5 Mb up.
My office is aprox 400 m from the exchange. (At home we are 1.5 km from
te excange and are "limited" to the current 24 Mb down/2 Mb up line.)

The office does not need the higher down-link speed realy, this was
mostly to get a higher speed for my servered (PDF) documents.

>
> Right. However, suppose that your IP address does not change, but there
> is some network problem so that your systems are not reachable, or all
> your systems are down or whatever. Better to have a backup MX server
> kick in then deliver the mail when things are working again than to have
> the message rejected. Or suppose there is a problem with updating your
> DNS then your IP address changes.

Well, it is setup to simply "work". :-)
Sometimes you just need to rely on it.

>> I will check what mail services DynDNS provides. I see no reason at the
>> moment to change dynamic DNS provider, but thanks for the tip.
>
> You can use just the SMTP relay server.
>

Found out that DynDNS only uses AUTH, so plain TCPIP/Services doesn't
work anyway... A well...

>> Am I right that Dynaccess is only handling our *outgoing* mails, right ?
>
> Yes.
>
> Alternate gateway: SMTP-RELAY.DYNACCESS.DE

You need an agreement with them to use that, right ?
They need to know your IP-adress, not ?

>

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <j9b2b0$3ts$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> You need an agreement with them to use that, right ?
> They need to know your IP-adress, not ?

Right in both cases. You just need to update it when it changes (then
they know it). You can still use DynDNS if you want. Dynaccess has
various fancy methods for updating (designed primarily for those with
the HeartBeat tarifs which allow updating every couple of seconds), but
one can update it via HTTP as well. I do so with LYNX in a batch job.
This interface is similar to that of DynDNS.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

OK, I have checked Dynaccess. To use smtp-relay, you need one of the
"HeartBeat" services. The per-hour limitations makes these not
practical for me. I have a burst of mails in the evening when my
auctions ends and my server handles the "sold-item" mails.

20 mails/hour for HB-A (@89 EUR/year) is not enough. 50 mail/hour
for HB-B (@ 120 EUR/year) is on the edge. Ans HB-C with 100 mail/hour
is 150 EUR/year.

I'll probably run some further tests with the smtp/mime tools in
Python and replace the smtp parts of TCPIP/Services (for outgoing
mails) all together. Then I also can stay with my ISP for mails.

The tools in Python seems ot be far better then MIME.EXE and similar
in TCPIP/Services. Allso supports TLS directly.

Thanks for the tips anyway !

Jan-Erik.

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <j9bau3$mjv$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> OK, I have checked Dynaccess. To use smtp-relay, you need one of the
> "HeartBeat" services.

Right. I have HeartBeat A, actually just for the SMTP-relay; I haven't
started using the heartbeat yet.

> The per-hour limitations makes these not
> practical for me. I have a burst of mails in the evening when my
> auctions ends and my server handles the "sold-item" mails.
>
> 20 mails/hour for HB-A (@89 EUR/year) is not enough. 50 mail/hour
> for HB-B (@ 120 EUR/year) is on the edge. Ans HB-C with 100 mail/hour
> is 150 EUR/year.

This applies only to sent emails. So, from time to time, you need to
SEND about 50 or so mails an hour?

Note that there is the "newsletter" option. It is named thusly since
people who send out newsletters normally have to send many emails within
a short time. If you register the sender address (normally, you can
send from any address), I think you can send more. (I think the
limitation is partly as an anti-spam measure. He needs to keep his SMTP
relay server clean so that people won't reject it. If you send more
than you pay for, you get a warning etc. I had this problem at the
beginning due to backscatter spam.)

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2011-11-11 12:39:
> In article<j9bau3$mjv$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> <jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
>
>> OK, I have checked Dynaccess. To use smtp-relay, you need one of the
>> "HeartBeat" services.
>
> Right. I have HeartBeat A, actually just for the SMTP-relay; I haven't
> started using the heartbeat yet.
>
>> The per-hour limitations makes these not
>> practical for me. I have a burst of mails in the evening when my
>> auctions ends and my server handles the "sold-item" mails.
>>
>> 20 mails/hour for HB-A (@89 EUR/year) is not enough. 50 mail/hour
>> for HB-B (@ 120 EUR/year) is on the edge. Ans HB-C with 100 mail/hour
>> is 150 EUR/year.
>
> This applies only to sent emails. So, from time to time, you need to
> SEND about 50 or so mails an hour?
>

Today it's say 20 mails/hour at prime-time in the evening.
Each ended auction produces one mail. And every "ask the seller"
email counts (if I route them this way). And while developing/debugging
my routines I could easily reach 50 mails within an hour. :-)