At last - Oracle 10.2.0.5

[Syltrem]

Received from Oracle today :

Oracle 10g Release 2 (10.2.0.5) for HP OpenVMS

We are pleased to announce that Oracle 10g Release 10.2.0.5.0 for OpenVMS
has shipped and is now available for download from My Oracle Support. This
patch set kit must be installed in an existing Oracle Database 10g release
10.2.x home. The minimally supported OpenVMS version for this release is
OpenVMS 8.4. For further details please refer to the Readme distributed with
the kit, the installation guide and the other product documents.

To download the kit go to https://support.oracle.com and search for patch
8202632.



Syltrem

[Richard Maher]

"Syltrem" <syltr...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:8K7us.778289$%Q3.4...@en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com...

Anyone know anything about the delivery date for 11g?


>
> Syltrem

Cheers Richard Maher
>

[RobertsonEricW]

AFAIK for Oracle on OpenVMS, Oracle is only releasing software updates for the Oracle Database client. No future updates for the Oracle Database server for OpenVMS are planned. Despite the relatively recent court ruling against Oracle regarding Itanium development, I have not seen any updates on the Oracle support forums indicating that this has changed for OpenVMS Itanium either. So, likely delivery date for Oracle Database 11g Server on OpenVMS is never and, based on past release cycles for Oracle software on OpenVMS, at least two years for the release of Oracle Database Client 11g; quite possibly longer.


Eric

[Richard Maher]

"RobertsonEricW" <roberts...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:77e43618-15a9-4ded...@googlegroups.com...

On Friday, November 30, 2012 6:34:49 PM UTC-5, Richard Maher wrote:
> "Syltrem" <syltr...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:8K7us.778289$%Q3.4...@en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
> >

> Anyone know anything about the delivery date for 11g?
> >
> > Syltrem
> Cheers Richard Maher
> >

AFAIK for Oracle on OpenVMS, Oracle is only releasing software updates for
the Oracle Database client. No future updates for the Oracle Database server
for OpenVMS are planned. Despite the relatively recent court ruling against
Oracle regarding Itanium development, I have not seen any updates on the
Oracle support forums indicating that this has changed for OpenVMS Itanium
either. So, likely delivery date for Oracle Database 11g Server on OpenVMS
is never and, based on past release cycles for Oracle software on OpenVMS,
at least two years for the release of Oracle Database Client 11g; quite
possibly longer.


Eric

Hi Eric,

My "understanding" was that 11g was about to reach production for VMS before
Larry's first decree. "If" it was so close then I was hoping that it might
be on the horizon.

Cheers Richard Maher

[David Froble]

Got a question for the Oracle users.

Is Oracle that much better than anything else available? Is it worth
what it cost?

I can understand that there may be procedures that work on Oracle and
might have to be re-worked on another database. Not sure if SQL is SQL
at this level.

Just curious. I've never used the product.

[BillPedersen]

Eric:

This is the announcement text:

"We are pleased to announce that Oracle 10g Release 10.2.0.5.0 for OpenVMS has shipped and is now available for download from My Oracle Support. This patch set kit must be installed in an existing Oracle Database 10g release 10.2.x home. The minimally supported OpenVMS version for this release is OpenVMS 8.4. For further details please refer to the Readme distributed with the kit, the installation guide and the other product documents."

It says nothing about only client. Oracle RDBMS is shipping for VMS. Yes, you can use clients if you want to be able to access newer versions of Oracle but as far as actually software the RDBMS is a product which is available and shipping.

This is from an email from Kevin Duffy, Senior Director, Oracle Rdb Engineering, which announce this and the Rdb release after Oracle publicized their plans to continue to support IA64.

Now, in the period from when Oracle initially announced their decision to stop shipping IA64 products the plan was to at least update VMS clients.

Bill.

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2012-12-11 01:23:26 +0000, David Froble said:

> Got a question for the Oracle users.
>
> Is Oracle that much better than anything else available?

For OpenVMS integration, Rdb wins. Hands down.

If you're working on enterprise applications or have requirements for
enterprise-level vendor support or for cross-platform availability,
Oracle is a very common choice.

On OpenVMS, there's also Mimer, a now-old Ingres port, and some
open-source database ports such as Oracle MySQL.

> Is it worth what it cost?

Your application, your requirements, your budget, and your call.
Oracle commercial database products and support are priced.... dearly.

> I can understand that there may be procedures that work on Oracle and
> might have to be re-worked on another database.

Correct.

> Not sure if SQL is SQL at this level.

The core of SQL is the standard; more or less the same, though about as
much as a standard is actually standardized.

The host-level tools and procedures, the extensions, the SQL
precompilers, and the rest can and usually do differ. Widely.

In a conversion discussion
<https://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=3122661>,
there's "or one that needs rewriting anyway"...

I haven't worked with the Oracle RDBMS precompilers, but I'd expect an
effort converting between Oracle Rdb and Oracle RDBMS.

> Just curious. I've never used the product.

For other products: MySQL and PostgreSQL are also common options,
depending on the OS platform, requirements, and the budget. There is a
MySQL port available for OpenVMS, though AFAIK there isn't a PostgreSQL
port available for OpenVMS quite yet. AFAIK, there's not much in the
way of NoSQL databases available on OpenVMS, other than RMS.


--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

[BillPedersen]

Non-SQL DBs include DBMS-VMS, also an Oracle product, part of the "Rdb" product family but definintely NOT relational, but a Codasyl database, heritage going back to DBMS-11 of the PDP days... There is a "product" that I am aware of which provides an SQL interface.

Cache - well there is a SQL component to this now but as DSM or M it does not as far as I know have a specific SQL presence.

System 1032, now owned by Rocket. I do not believe this is specifically a relational database. It has been around for quite a while - since the VAX days. Nor do I know of its SQL quality.

Ingres, did not start out as an SQL compliant database. But it is relational. It is also available in open source as well as an enterprise supported version. It now has an SQL interface.

And as I sit here I know there is another database which was specifically marketed to governmental agencies and has been around since the early VAX days, actually, even on PDP-11s. It is not SQL by default but would not be surprised if there is now an SQL interface. I just do not recall this products name.

But, as products move forward and look inter interface with "the world" the availability of an SQL interface or ODBC or JDBC are very important. Of course exceptions can be implemented but...

Bill.

[Martin Vorlaender]

RobertsonEricW <roberts...@netzero.net> wrote:
> Richard Maher wrote:

>> "Syltrem" <syltr...@videotron.ca> wrote...

>> > Received from Oracle today :
>> >
>> > Oracle 10g Release 2 (10.2.0.5) for HP OpenVMS
>> >
>> > We are pleased to announce that Oracle 10g Release 10.2.0.5.0 for OpenVMS

>> > has shipped [...]

>>
>> Anyone know anything about the delivery date for 11g?
>

> AFAIK for Oracle on OpenVMS, Oracle is only releasing software updatesfor the Oracle Database client. No future updates for the OracleDatabase server for OpenVMS are planned. Despite the relatively recentcourt ruling against Oracle regarding Itanium development, I have notseen any updates on the Oracle support forums indicating that this haschanged for OpenVMS Itanium either. So, likely delivery date for OracleDatabase 11g Server on OpenVMS is never and, based on past releasecycles for Oracle software on OpenVMS, at least two years for therelease of Oracle Database Client 11g; quite possibly longer.

Please see the slides presented by Kevin Duffy at the German TUD:
http://de.openvms.org/TUD2012/Oracle_Database_on_VMS_and_Rdb_Product_Update-Public.pdf
especially slides 6 and 16.

cu,
Martin
--
One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules!
One OS to find them | work: m...@pdv-systeme.de
One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.v...@t-online.de

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Martin Vorlaender wrote 2012-12-11 06:29:
> RobertsonEricW <roberts...@netzero.net> wrote:
>> Richard Maher wrote:
>>> "Syltrem" <syltr...@videotron.ca> wrote...
>>> > Received from Oracle today :
>>> >
>>> > Oracle 10g Release 2 (10.2.0.5) for HP OpenVMS
>>> >
>>> > We are pleased to announce that Oracle 10g Release 10.2.0.5.0 for OpenVMS
>>> > has shipped [...]
>>>
>>> Anyone know anything about the delivery date for 11g?
>>
>> AFAIK for Oracle on OpenVMS, Oracle is only releasing software updatesfor
>> the Oracle Database client. No future updates for the OracleDatabase
>> server for OpenVMS are planned. Despite the relatively recentcourt ruling
>> against Oracle regarding Itanium development, I have notseen any updates
>> on the Oracle support forums indicating that this haschanged for OpenVMS
>> Itanium either. So, likely delivery date for OracleDatabase 11g Server on
>> OpenVMS is never and, based on past releasecycles for Oracle software on
>> OpenVMS, at least two years for therelease of Oracle Database Client 11g;
>> quite possibly longer.
>
> Please see the slides presented by Kevin Duffy at the German TUD:
> http://de.openvms.org/TUD2012/Oracle_Database_on_VMS_and_Rdb_Product_Update-Public.pdf
>
> especially slides 6 and 16.
>
> cu,
> Martin

Yes, that was more in line with how I remebered the Oracle Update days
in Stockholm. The "client-only" scenario was *before* the last court
decision about continued IA64 development of Oracle (classic) products.

Jan-Erik.

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <dae1b231-06ee-40ac...@googlegroups.com>,

BillPedersen <pede...@ccsscorp.com> writes:
>
> Non-SQL DBs include DBMS-VMS, also an Oracle product, part of the "Rdb" product family but definintely NOT relational, but a Codasyl database, heritage going back to DBMS-11 of the PDP days... There is a "product" that I am aware of which provides an SQL interface.
> Cache - well there is a SQL component to this now but as DSM or M it does not as far as I know have a specific SQL presence.
> System 1032, now owned by Rocket. I do not believe this is specifically a relational database. It has been around for quite a while - since the VAX days. Nor do I know of its SQL quality.
> Ingres, did not start out as an SQL compliant database. But it is relational. It is also available in open source as well as an enterprise supported version. It now has an SQL interface.
> And as I sit here I know there is another database which was specifically marketed to governmental agencies and has been around since the early VAX days, actually, even on PDP-11s. It is not SQL by default but would not be surprised if there is now an SQL interface. I just do not recall this products name.

RIM? I see it is floating around again and I definitely remember working
with it when I was stationed at West Point. Definitely no SQL but it does
claim to be relational and there is a VMS version.

> But, as products move forward and look inter interface with "the world" the availability of an SQL interface or ODBC or JDBC are very important. Of course exceptions can be implemented but...

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2012-12-11 05:07:25 +0000, BillPedersen said:

Nice list.

> Cache - well there is a SQL component to this now but as DSM or M it
> does not as far as I know have a specific SQL presence.

Ah. Forgot about Caché There's a GT.M port available on the Freeware, too.

> But, as products move forward and look inter interface with "the world"
> the availability of an SQL interface or ODBC or JDBC are very
> important. Of course exceptions can be implemented but...

FWIW... Various NoSQL packages avoid using or providing SQL syntax,
and also tend to avoid offering ACID. Recent NoSQL databases are
usually distributed, and eventually consistent, and are faster and more
scalable than SQL relational databases.

RMS provides key-value, which is one variant of NoSQL, but doesn't
offer distributed access. (RMS atop clustering isn't the same
implementation. This combination is far too consistent and far too
synchronous for some applications.)

Parts of the enterprise are heavily into SQL, but not all applications
fit that model. (There were some applications I've worked on where a
NoSQL database would have been very useful, and where SQL or RMS was a
force-fit solution.)

[David Froble]

Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> AFAIK, there's not much in the
> way of NoSQL databases available on OpenVMS, other than RMS.
>
>

There is my DAS product. It has ISAM and relative files.

Not that I'm pushing it. Development stopped long ago. Familiar story?

[David Froble]

BillPedersen wrote:

> Non-SQL DBs include DBMS-VMS, also an Oracle product, part of the "Rdb" product family but definintely NOT relational, but a Codasyl database, heritage going back to DBMS-11 of the PDP days... There is a "product" that I am aware of which provides an SQL interface.
>
> Cache - well there is a SQL component to this now but as DSM or M it does not as far as I know have a specific SQL presence.
>
> System 1032, now owned by Rocket. I do not believe this is specifically a relational database. It has been around for quite a while - since the VAX days. Nor do I know of its SQL quality.
>
> Ingres, did not start out as an SQL compliant database. But it is relational. It is also available in open source as well as an enterprise supported version. It now has an SQL interface.
>
> And as I sit here I know there is another database which was specifically marketed to governmental agencies and has been around since the early VAX days, actually, even on PDP-11s. It is not SQL by default but would not be surprised if there is now an SQL interface. I just do not recall this products name.
>
> But, as products move forward and look inter interface with "the world" the availability of an SQL interface or ODBC or JDBC are very important. Of course exceptions can be implemented but...
>
> Bill.

I'm thinking that if a user is used to SQL, then other methods might
seem harder to use. However, as someone used to "other", I find SQL a
bit challenging ...

[David Froble]

It's been my experience that applications that are doing updates, adds,
and such benefit from a lean efficient product. However, the retrival
capabilities of a SQL relational database are very powerful.

In the past I've recommended a hybred, lean and fast for operations, and
relational for historucal retrieval. It does require the user to be
capable in both.

[Richard Maher]

"David Froble" <da...@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message
news:ka61rk$j0d$1...@dont-email.me...

It's not the database (or the OS) but the software that needs it.

How many new bespoke projects are you working on?

Cheers Richard Maher

[Craig A. Berry]

In article <dae1b231-06ee-40ac...@googlegroups.com>,
BillPedersen <pede...@ccsscorp.com> wrote:

> Non-SQL DBs include
...

[References to various ancient data storage engines snipped.]

What people mean by a NoSQL database nowadays is not directly related to
these various pre-SQL (or acquired-SQL-late-in-life) databases.
Specifically, NoSQL does not mean (only) the absence of SQL as a query
language.

It does mean dynamic schemata oriented towards documents rather than
rigidly defined data structures; and it also means "horizontal
scalability," i.e., running in parallel on thousands of servers;
network-oriented data serialization such as JSON; and it uses the term
"eventual consistency" to indicate that your friends on your social
networking site won't necessarily see your update as soon as you've
posted it but there is a guarantee that it will propagate eventually.

Examples include MongoDB (http://www.mongodb.org), CouchDB
(http://couchdb.apache.org), Apache Cassandra
(http://cassandra.apache.org), and the Google App Engine Datastore
(https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastore/overview).
And there are quite a few others.

As far as I know, none of these current technologies is available on
VMS. Ports are always a possibility, but these packages generally
require fork() and/or one of the de facto standard event monitoring
mechanisms (epoll, kqueues, libevent, libev, etc.).

Probably RMS with mirroring based on the Attunity CDC product would be
about as close as you could come with native tools. But that doesn't
give you JSON, dynamic schemata, etc.