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putty terminal, where's the "do" "select" "remove" key?
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j...@jonathanleslie.com
May 14, 2013, 12:45:02 PM5/14/13
to
I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
Stephen Hoffman
May 14, 2013, 1:29:39 PM5/14/13
to
On 2013-05-14 16:45:02 +0000, j...@jonathanleslie.com said:
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201
> keys are. Any help???
Start reading here
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201
> keys are. Any help???
<http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/function-keys.html>
and here
<http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-keyboard>
and particularly here
<http://www.parsec.com/general/technical.php?i=2513&r=7K5K3H&d=OpenVMS>.
qv: NumLock is PF1 in VT400 mode, and the editing keypad is listed
there, too.
In general, dependencies on function keys are full of fail in this era.
It hurts, yes, but the faster you get rid of your dependences on this
morass, the better off you'll be.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Neil Rieck
May 15, 2013, 7:24:35 AM5/15/13
to
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:45:02 PM UTC-4, j...@jonathanleslie.com wrote:
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
Forget about PuTTY. Tera Term is a much better free VT emulation.
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
http://logmett.com/index.php?/products/teraterm.html
Neil Rieck
Kitchener / Waterloo / Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html
Bob Koehler
May 15, 2013, 10:24:35 AM5/15/13
to
In article <0327fda4-76e6-4197...@googlegroups.com>, j...@jonathanleslie.com writes:
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
>
Find the keyboard setup and select VT400. That's the best I've
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
>
found, and gets should get an LK201 style layout on the center
keypad. Also works well with my Targus USB numeric keypad on
my laptop.
Of course, if you're using a laptop or another unsual keyboard
layout, you may have to compare the ley labels to the center keypad
of a PC keyboard to figure out that mapping.
John Reagan
May 15, 2013, 3:04:10 PM5/15/13
to
> wrote in message
> news:0327fda4-76e6-4197...@googlegroups.com...
> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201
> keys are. Any help???
LSE init file which contains
define key f12 "LSE GOTO COMMAND"
so I can then just F12 (which is about the same physical location as the DO
key) with PuTTY. Works fine for me.
John
Johnny Billquist
May 16, 2013, 6:32:13 PM5/16/13
to
On 2013-05-15 13:24, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:45:02 PM UTC-4, j...@jonathanleslie.com wrote:
>> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
>
> Forget about PuTTY. Tera Term is a much better free VT emulation.
> http://logmett.com/index.php?/products/teraterm.html
Really? Last I tried TeraTerm it's VT-emulation was much worse than
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:45:02 PM UTC-4, j...@jonathanleslie.com wrote:
>> I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201 keys are. Any help???
>
> Forget about PuTTY. Tera Term is a much better free VT emulation.
> http://logmett.com/index.php?/products/teraterm.html
PuTTY... Close to useless when I pressed it some.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
AEF
Jun 6, 2013, 9:21:52 PM6/6/13
to
On May 14, 1:29 pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
wrote:
the same direction without holding an extra key down. Also, it's a
simple arc movement moving your hand between the main keyboard area
and the keypad. No pulling your arm in, or bending your fingers in
ergonomically bad ways. It makes it real easy to get your fingers back
in the home position!
For the Mac, Cmd-Z and Shift-Cmd-Z are awesome for undo and redo. Much
better than Cmd-Z and Cmd-Y (as in some other apps, like Office )
wrote:
> On 2013-05-14 16:45:02 +0000, j...@jonathanleslie.com said:
>
> > I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201
> > keys are. Any help???
>
> Start reading here
> <http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/function-k...>
>
> > I want to start using putty, but I can't figure out where all the lk201
> > keys are. Any help???
>
> Start reading here
> and here
> <http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-keyboard>
> and particularly here
> <http://www.parsec.com/general/technical.php?i=2513&r=7K5K3H&d=OpenVMS>.
> qv: NumLock is PF1 in VT400 mode, and the editing keypad is listed
> there, too.
>
> In general, dependencies on function keys are full of fail in this era.
> It hurts, yes, but the faster you get rid of your dependences on this
> morass, the better off you'll be.
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next. You can stay in
> <http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-keyboard>
> and particularly here
> <http://www.parsec.com/general/technical.php?i=2513&r=7K5K3H&d=OpenVMS>.
> qv: NumLock is PF1 in VT400 mode, and the editing keypad is listed
> there, too.
>
> In general, dependencies on function keys are full of fail in this era.
> It hurts, yes, but the faster you get rid of your dependences on this
> morass, the better off you'll be.
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
the same direction without holding an extra key down. Also, it's a
simple arc movement moving your hand between the main keyboard area
and the keypad. No pulling your arm in, or bending your fingers in
ergonomically bad ways. It makes it real easy to get your fingers back
in the home position!
For the Mac, Cmd-Z and Shift-Cmd-Z are awesome for undo and redo. Much
better than Cmd-Z and Cmd-Y (as in some other apps, like Office )
AEF
Jun 6, 2013, 9:30:40 PM6/6/13
to
for undo, but Cmd-Y or Ctrl-Y for redo.
In general, holding Shift down is good for reversing.
The EDT Find is better than the vi Find.
AEF
Stephen Hoffman
Jun 6, 2013, 10:04:35 PM6/6/13
to
On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
> Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
> Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
case-sensitive search:
/target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
?target and n or N
case-blind search:
/target\c and n or N
?target\c and n or N
* and # search for the next and previous instances of the word at the
cursor, too, then n or N to continue the search.
The :set [no]smartcase and :set [no]ignorecase stuff can be used in
place of \c or \C in the pattern string, depending on what you're up to.
Oh, and vim does pattern searches. (That's available in LSEDIT, but
not in EDT.)
AEF
Jun 6, 2013, 11:16:30 PM6/6/13
to
On Jun 6, 10:04 pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
wrote:
>
> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
> case-sensitive search:
> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> ?target and n or N
You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
> case-blind search:
> /target\c and n or N
> ?target\c and n or N
Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
>
> * and # search for the next and previous instances of the word at the
> cursor, too, then n or N to continue the search.
There's an EDT macro I got from someone c. 1992 that can do this!
Actually, it takes what's in the paste buffer and puts it in the
search buffer.
>
> The :set [no]smartcase and :set [no]ignorecase stuff can be used in
> place of \c or \C in the pattern string, depending on what you're up to.
>
> Oh, and vim does pattern searches. (That's available in LSEDIT, but
> not in EDT.)
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Sorry, what I meant was the keys used and how they're used, not
wildcard/pattern searches and what not. With Eve you can do case-
sensitive stuff and VMSwildcards, no? And with the EDT Keypad, no
less!
Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys
are, and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward
with 5, and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
You can change direction to forward with one key, and backward with
another. After which you simply repeat pressing F3 to find what you
want. If you overshoot, press 4 or 5 as needed and you're back to a
single key to jump to the next occurrence in the opposite direction.
You don't have to hold any key down while pressing another. You can
very easily move your hand from main keyboard to keypad and back. It's
easier on the hand and wrist the EDT way than it is the vi/vim way.
For me, using PF3 is much better than n. And no need to press the ESC
key.
IOW, if I were to design the thing, I'd use the EDT keypad method, but
add all those cool features from vim/Eve. Well, it's already done for
Eve!
Sorry I wasn't clear before.
Another thing from EDT is that you can press SELECT, type something,
then cut and paste it, perhaps pasting it multiple times. Can you do
that with vi? I don't really know. Can you do that with any other
editor? (Oh, EVE can do it.)
Another thing vi can't do is skip correctly across things like IP
addresses. EDT can do it, but you have to customize it.
10.1.10.123
Pressing a word-advance key should stop at each period ONLY ONCE,
either just before it or right after it. But most editors/CLIs/
browsers will stop twice. I suppose that's to avoid an overshoot. But
that's silly and painfully slow. You have to press the word-advance
key or key combo many more times. If you overshoot, just press the
arrow key once! This is a big deal? It makes up for all the extra key
presses you made to get past each punctuation mark. You end up with
fewer key presses my way. It's more efficient. Firefox also gets it
right, and right out of the box, to boot! EDT can do it but it needs
some set-up. I don't know of any other editor or CLI or browser that
gets this right.
vi puts the found search string on the top row. I prefer that there be
a few rows above it for context, like EDT and EVE do. Well, there are
advantages either way.
AEF
wrote:
> On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
Hi Hoff!
>
> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
> case-sensitive search:
> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> ?target and n or N
>
> case-blind search:
> /target\c and n or N
> ?target\c and n or N
>
> * and # search for the next and previous instances of the word at the
> cursor, too, then n or N to continue the search.
Actually, it takes what's in the paste buffer and puts it in the
search buffer.
>
> The :set [no]smartcase and :set [no]ignorecase stuff can be used in
> place of \c or \C in the pattern string, depending on what you're up to.
>
> Oh, and vim does pattern searches. (That's available in LSEDIT, but
> not in EDT.)
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
wildcard/pattern searches and what not. With Eve you can do case-
sensitive stuff and VMSwildcards, no? And with the EDT Keypad, no
less!
Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys
are, and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward
with 5, and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
You can change direction to forward with one key, and backward with
another. After which you simply repeat pressing F3 to find what you
want. If you overshoot, press 4 or 5 as needed and you're back to a
single key to jump to the next occurrence in the opposite direction.
You don't have to hold any key down while pressing another. You can
very easily move your hand from main keyboard to keypad and back. It's
easier on the hand and wrist the EDT way than it is the vi/vim way.
For me, using PF3 is much better than n. And no need to press the ESC
key.
IOW, if I were to design the thing, I'd use the EDT keypad method, but
add all those cool features from vim/Eve. Well, it's already done for
Eve!
Sorry I wasn't clear before.
Another thing from EDT is that you can press SELECT, type something,
then cut and paste it, perhaps pasting it multiple times. Can you do
that with vi? I don't really know. Can you do that with any other
editor? (Oh, EVE can do it.)
Another thing vi can't do is skip correctly across things like IP
addresses. EDT can do it, but you have to customize it.
10.1.10.123
Pressing a word-advance key should stop at each period ONLY ONCE,
either just before it or right after it. But most editors/CLIs/
browsers will stop twice. I suppose that's to avoid an overshoot. But
that's silly and painfully slow. You have to press the word-advance
key or key combo many more times. If you overshoot, just press the
arrow key once! This is a big deal? It makes up for all the extra key
presses you made to get past each punctuation mark. You end up with
fewer key presses my way. It's more efficient. Firefox also gets it
right, and right out of the box, to boot! EDT can do it but it needs
some set-up. I don't know of any other editor or CLI or browser that
gets this right.
vi puts the found search string on the top row. I prefer that there be
a few rows above it for context, like EDT and EVE do. Well, there are
advantages either way.
AEF
VAXman-
Jun 7, 2013, 9:14:17 AM6/7/13
to
In article <4181f50a-2315-4bb5...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jun 6, 10:04=A0pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
SET SEARCH GENERAL
I have these in EDT macros that also print out which mode I'm in. There
are just shy of 200 lines in my EDTSYS file. I've been using it for the
past 2+ decades and never found much need for TPU. Occasionally, like a
posting or email where somebody can't seem to fin the [return] key, I am
finding myself in TPU in EDT keypad mode but, for the most part, EDT has
served me well.
>>
>> case-blind search:
>> /target\c and n or N
>> ?target\c and n or N
>
>Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
Yes. When I use 'vi', I have to suffer these commands. Not bad but I'd
prefer to edit with EDT. My only real issue with 'vi' is forgetting the
<ESC> into command mode ffrom time to time.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
>On Jun 6, 10:04=A0pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
>wrote:
>> On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
>Hi Hoff!
>
>>
>> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>>
>> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
>What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
>keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
>direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
>want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
>>
>> case-sensitive search:
>> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
>> ?target and n or N
>
>You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
SET SEARCH EXACT
>> On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
>Hi Hoff!
>
>>
>> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>>
>> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
>What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
>keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
>direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
>want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
>>
>> case-sensitive search:
>> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
>> ?target and n or N
>
>You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
SET SEARCH GENERAL
I have these in EDT macros that also print out which mode I'm in. There
are just shy of 200 lines in my EDTSYS file. I've been using it for the
past 2+ decades and never found much need for TPU. Occasionally, like a
posting or email where somebody can't seem to fin the [return] key, I am
finding myself in TPU in EDT keypad mode but, for the most part, EDT has
served me well.
>>
>> case-blind search:
>> /target\c and n or N
>> ?target\c and n or N
>
>Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
prefer to edit with EDT. My only real issue with 'vi' is forgetting the
<ESC> into command mode ffrom time to time.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
AEF
Jun 7, 2013, 9:39:30 AM6/7/13
to
On Jun 7, 9:14 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
died.
>
> I have these in EDT macros that also print out which mode I'm in. There
> are just shy of 200 lines in my EDTSYS file. I've been using it for the
> past 2+ decades and never found much need for TPU. Occasionally, like a
> posting or email where somebody can't seem to fin the [return] key, I am
> finding myself in TPU in EDT keypad mode but, for the most part, EDT has
> served me well.
>
>
>
> >> case-blind search:
> >> /target\c and n or N
> >> ?target\c and n or N
>
> >Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
>
> Yes. When I use 'vi', I have to suffer these commands. Not bad but I'd
> prefer to edit with EDT. My only real issue with 'vi' is forgetting the
> <ESC> into command mode ffrom time to time.
Me too with forgetting to ESC.
Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=" key in just the wrong place!
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
AEF
If you bring a beer to a job interview . . . you just might be a
redneck.
> In article <4181f50a-2315-4bb5-a39c-90bdecd3d...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 6, 10:04=A0pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> >wrote:
> >> On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
> >Hi Hoff!
>
> >> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> >> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
> >What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
> >keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
> >direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
> >want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
> >> case-sensitive search:
> >> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> >> ?target and n or N
>
> >You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
> SET SEARCH EXACT
> SET SEARCH GENERAL
Of course! How could I forget? I really haven't had much opportunity
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 6, 10:04=A0pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> >wrote:
> >> On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
> >Hi Hoff!
>
> >> > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> >> vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
> >What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
> >keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
> >direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
> >want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
> >> case-sensitive search:
> >> /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> >> ?target and n or N
>
> >You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
> SET SEARCH EXACT
> SET SEARCH GENERAL
to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
died.
>
> I have these in EDT macros that also print out which mode I'm in. There
> are just shy of 200 lines in my EDTSYS file. I've been using it for the
> past 2+ decades and never found much need for TPU. Occasionally, like a
> posting or email where somebody can't seem to fin the [return] key, I am
> finding myself in TPU in EDT keypad mode but, for the most part, EDT has
> served me well.
>
>
>
> >> case-blind search:
> >> /target\c and n or N
> >> ?target\c and n or N
>
> >Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
>
> Yes. When I use 'vi', I have to suffer these commands. Not bad but I'd
> prefer to edit with EDT. My only real issue with 'vi' is forgetting the
> <ESC> into command mode ffrom time to time.
Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=" key in just the wrong place!
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
If you bring a beer to a job interview . . . you just might be a
redneck.
VAXman-
Jun 7, 2013, 9:52:22 AM6/7/13
to
In article <97885981-5e35-43d7...@2g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>{...snip...}
the "SET SEARCH GENERAL" syntax. I recalled "EXACT" but didn't recall what
the keyword was for the general search.
>Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D" key in just the wrong place!
What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
>{...snip...}
>> >You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>>
>> SET SEARCH EXACT
>> SET SEARCH GENERAL
>
>Of course! How could I forget? I really haven't had much opportunity
>to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
>died.
That's OK. I use it all the time but I had to edit my EDTSYS file to recall
>>
>> SET SEARCH EXACT
>> SET SEARCH GENERAL
>
>Of course! How could I forget? I really haven't had much opportunity
>to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
>died.
the "SET SEARCH GENERAL" syntax. I recalled "EXACT" but didn't recall what
the keyword was for the general search.
>Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D" key in just the wrong place!
What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
AEF
Jun 7, 2013, 9:57:43 AM6/7/13
to
On Jun 7, 9:52 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
remaps the main "=" key, thereby losing the "=" character.
> In article <97885981-5e35-43d7-9244-d621ba478...@2g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >{...snip...}
> >> >You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
> >> SET SEARCH EXACT
> >> SET SEARCH GENERAL
>
> >Of course! How could I forget? I really haven't had much opportunity
> >to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
> >died.
>
> That's OK. I use it all the time but I had to edit my EDTSYS file to recall
> the "SET SEARCH GENERAL" syntax. I recalled "EXACT" but didn't recall what
> the keyword was for the general search.
>
> >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
> white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
> with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
> have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
> execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=" key also
>
> >{...snip...}
> >> >You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
> >> SET SEARCH EXACT
> >> SET SEARCH GENERAL
>
> >Of course! How could I forget? I really haven't had much opportunity
> >to use EDT for the last 2 1/2 years, when my last (trading) desk
> >died.
>
> That's OK. I use it all the time but I had to edit my EDTSYS file to recall
> the "SET SEARCH GENERAL" syntax. I recalled "EXACT" but didn't recall what
> the keyword was for the general search.
>
> >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
> white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
> with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
> have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
> execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
remaps the main "=" key, thereby losing the "=" character.
Stephen Hoffman
Jun 7, 2013, 10:10:58 AM6/7/13
to
On 2013-06-07 03:16:30 +0000, AEF said:
> Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
> and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
> and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
vim can easily be customized use the keypad keys, if you want that.
> Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
> and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
> and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
But there's that the slight little issue of the editing and numeric
keypads being less-than-ubiquitous on various hardware, which is what
tripped me. And there's that the vim keys are all on the main
keyboard, and you're not reaching all over the place for either the
mouse or trackpad or the keypad keys. Having started out with vim and
EDT around the same time, I do grok how nice the editing and numeric
keypads can be[1], and I also like that the main keyboard is easier to
reach, and I've taken to remapping some keys — control and caps-lock
are swapped, on the local keyboards — but I've also found that those
keypad keys and the DEC editors aren't necessarily available outside of
DEC-land, and that some of the emulations and variations don't map
quite the same. vim works the same — for better and sometimes for
worse[2][3] — pretty much everywhere.
————
[1] I have very substantial finger-memory of LSEDIT, Notes and the
Debugger, and the command-line interfaces of those tools are clumsy at
best.
[2] <http://mrozekma.com/editor-learning-curve.png>
[3] It'd be nice to have access to the analysis file libraries for the
OpenVMS compilers for integration into vim and other tools, but I don't
see that happening.
AEF
Jun 7, 2013, 11:08:24 AM6/7/13
to
On Jun 7, 10:10 am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
wrote:
I'm just saying that all things being equal, I greatly prefer the EDT
way. Some aspects of vi/vim I like, but this isn't one of them.
> tripped me. And there's that the vim keys are all on the main
> keyboard, and you're not reaching all over the place for either the
> mouse or trackpad or the keypad keys. Having started out with vim and
That is an advantage, move or less. But moving to the keypad and back
is quite easy, easier than to shift and back.
> EDT around the same time, I do grok how nice the editing and numeric
grok?
> keypads can be[1], and I also like that the main keyboard is easier to
> reach, and I've taken to remapping some keys — control and caps-lock
> are swapped, on the local keyboards — but I've also found that those
> keypad keys and the DEC editors aren't necessarily available outside of
> DEC-land, and that some of the emulations and variations don't map
> quite the same. vim works the same — for better and sometimes for
> worse[2][3] — pretty much everywhere.
>
> ————
> [1] I have very substantial finger-memory of LSEDIT, Notes and the
> Debugger, and the command-line interfaces of those tools are clumsy at
> best.
> [2] <http://mrozekma.com/editor-learning-curve.png>
> [3] It'd be nice to have access to the analysis file libraries for the
> OpenVMS compilers for integration into vim and other tools, but I don't
> see that happening.
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
AEF
wrote:
> On 2013-06-07 03:16:30 +0000, AEF said:
>
> > Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
> > and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
> > and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
>
> vim can easily be customized use the keypad keys, if you want that.
> But there's that the slight little issue of the editing and numeric
> keypads being less-than-ubiquitous on various hardware, which is what
Diamonds are rare; crap is everywhere.
>
> > Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
> > and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
> > and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
>
> vim can easily be customized use the keypad keys, if you want that.
> But there's that the slight little issue of the editing and numeric
> keypads being less-than-ubiquitous on various hardware, which is what
I'm just saying that all things being equal, I greatly prefer the EDT
way. Some aspects of vi/vim I like, but this isn't one of them.
> tripped me. And there's that the vim keys are all on the main
> keyboard, and you're not reaching all over the place for either the
> mouse or trackpad or the keypad keys. Having started out with vim and
is quite easy, easier than to shift and back.
> EDT around the same time, I do grok how nice the editing and numeric
> keypads can be[1], and I also like that the main keyboard is easier to
> reach, and I've taken to remapping some keys — control and caps-lock
> are swapped, on the local keyboards — but I've also found that those
> keypad keys and the DEC editors aren't necessarily available outside of
> DEC-land, and that some of the emulations and variations don't map
> quite the same. vim works the same — for better and sometimes for
> worse[2][3] — pretty much everywhere.
>
> ————
> [1] I have very substantial finger-memory of LSEDIT, Notes and the
> Debugger, and the command-line interfaces of those tools are clumsy at
> best.
> [2] <http://mrozekma.com/editor-learning-curve.png>
> [3] It'd be nice to have access to the analysis file libraries for the
> OpenVMS compilers for integration into vim and other tools, but I don't
> see that happening.
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
AEF
Jun 7, 2013, 2:54:37 PM6/7/13
to
On Jun 7, 9:57 am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:52 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
[...]
> On Jun 7, 9:52 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> > What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> > keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
>
> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=" key also
> remaps the main "=" key, thereby losing the "=" character.
I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>
> > What's the issue with the [=] key? I've used my Mac keyboards (first, a
> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version)
> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> > keypad with EDT. Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. I did
> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. I've even implemented 'udex' triggers to
> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and removed.
>
> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=" key also
> remaps the main "=" key, thereby losing the "=" character.
AEF
VAXman-
Jun 7, 2013, 3:48:23 PM6/7/13
to
In article <81451164-f971-4ba5...@w8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jun 7, 10:10=A0am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/grok.html
>On Jun 7, 10:10=A0am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
>wrote:
>> On 2013-06-07 03:16:30 +0000, AEF said:
>>
>> > Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
>> > and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
>> > and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
>>
>> vim can easily be customized use the keypad keys, if you want that.
>> But there's that the slight little issue of the editing and numeric
>> keypads being less-than-ubiquitous on various hardware, which is what
>
>Diamonds are rare; crap is everywhere.
>
>I'm just saying that all things being equal, I greatly prefer the EDT
>way. Some aspects of vi/vim I like, but this isn't one of them.
>
>> tripped me. =A0And there's that the vim keys are all on the main
>> On 2013-06-07 03:16:30 +0000, AEF said:
>>
>> > Yes, vi, vim, can do all that fancy stuff, but it's where the keys are,
>> > and the ability to switch direction to forward with 4, backward with 5,
>> > and find PF1 PF3, and Find Next PF3, that I find awesome.
>>
>> vim can easily be customized use the keypad keys, if you want that.
>> But there's that the slight little issue of the editing and numeric
>> keypads being less-than-ubiquitous on various hardware, which is what
>
>Diamonds are rare; crap is everywhere.
>
>I'm just saying that all things being equal, I greatly prefer the EDT
>way. Some aspects of vi/vim I like, but this isn't one of them.
>
>> keyboard, and you're not reaching all over the place for either the
>> mouse or trackpad or the keypad keys. =A0Having started out with vim and
>
>That is an advantage, move or less. But moving to the keypad and back
>is quite easy, easier than to shift and back.
>
>
>> EDT around the same time, I do grok how nice the editing and numeric
>
>grok?
Re Robert Heinlein.
>That is an advantage, move or less. But moving to the keypad and back
>is quite easy, easier than to shift and back.
>
>
>> EDT around the same time, I do grok how nice the editing and numeric
>
>grok?
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/grok.html
VAXman-
Jun 7, 2013, 3:55:43 PM6/7/13
to
In article <a72ab4a9-9865-49bf...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 9:52=A0am, VAXman- =A...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>[...]
>> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>>
>> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
>st, a
>> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
>I did
>> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
>s to
>> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
>ed.
>>
>> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
>> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
Xmodmap definition.
>On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 9:52=A0am, VAXman- =A...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>[...]
>> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>>
>> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
>st, a
>> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
>)
>> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
>> > keypad with EDT. =A0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. =A0=
>> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
>I did
>> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
>s to
>> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
>ed.
>>
>> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
>> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
>
>I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
>I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
Xmodmap definition.
Johnny Billquist
Jun 8, 2013, 6:02:33 PM6/8/13
to
instead of keycodes...
AEF
Jun 10, 2013, 11:55:19 PM6/10/13
to
On Jun 7, 10:10 am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
I don't disagree with you. My first post in this thread started with
the word "Bummer". I'm bummed that what I prefer is going away. That's
all. From EDT I miss the Find sequences the most. And I find that to
be a bummer. Your points stand. And so does mine!
AEF
AEF
Jun 10, 2013, 11:59:44 PM6/10/13
to
On Jun 7, 3:55 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
positive response, if any. I tried something once, and lost the = key,
as the two keys seemed to be the same. When I have more time I'll try
to reproduce this and report back. Stay tuned.
AEF
> In article <a72ab4a9-9865-49bf-b197-870420709...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 7, 9:52=A0am, VAXman- =...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> >[...]
> >> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
> >st, a
> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
> >)
> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> >> > keypad with EDT. =A0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. =A0=
> >I did
> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
> >s to
> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
> >ed.
>
> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
> >> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
>
> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>
> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
> 'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
> returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
> Xmodmap definition.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
I thought I once asked here how to map a Mac's keypad and there was no
> >[...]
> >> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
> >st, a
> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
> >)
> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> >> > keypad with EDT. =A0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. =A0=
> >I did
> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
> >s to
> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
> >ed.
>
> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
> >> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
>
> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>
> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
> 'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
> returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
> Xmodmap definition.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
positive response, if any. I tried something once, and lost the = key,
as the two keys seemed to be the same. When I have more time I'll try
to reproduce this and report back. Stay tuned.
AEF
AEF
Jun 11, 2013, 12:00:17 AM6/11/13
to
On Jun 7, 3:48 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
OK, thanks. I thought it might have been a typo. :)
Stephen Hoffman
Jun 11, 2013, 10:05:00 AM6/11/13
to
On 2013-06-11 04:00:17 +0000, AEF said:
> OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
Grok is listed in the OS X dictionary. :-)
> OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
Grok is listed in the OS X dictionary. :-)
AEF
Jun 11, 2013, 9:25:30 PM6/11/13
to
On Jun 7, 3:55 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
aluminum Apple keyboard to a friend. I found it to be an ergonomic
nightmare, and also just really annoying to press the keys on. Note
that the Fn keys are evenly spaced. Better that they should be in
groups of four, making it easier to find the key you want, quickly.
Too much form over function.
Took a quick look in Terminal. I don't know it can be done there. I
can't recall what I did last time. So how can I do it without spending
hundreds for a laptop and what not?
OK. I retraced my steps. Back in the pre-2011 days when I was still
logging into the VAX at work from home on a regular basis (but with
decreasing frequency), I was using SmarTerm on my Mac. SmarTerm has a
mapping function that displays the PC keyboard and the DEC keyboard.
You map them by matching keys by clicking them. Alernatively you can
define a key via a drop-down menu with all sorts of special escapes
sequences and what not. I got everything to work except matching PF2
to the keypad = key. On the top row of a PC you have NumLock, /, *, -.
Mapping them to PF1, PF3, PF4, and - worked great. The PF2 key
remained a problem. The only way I could do it with SmarTerm was to
remap the main = key, which meant that the main = key would also
become PF2. So it was the fact that I was using a PC-oriented emulator
which thwarted my efforts to make a PF2 key in the right place on my
Mac. Yeah, no surprise, there.
I did managed to get the F13 key mapped to Help by using the Scroll
Lock key on the PC keyboard and used Gold PF7 for the Do key. It was
okay, as I didn't use the Help key very often. It's just a little
disappointing after seeing two keys where the PC has only one would
make one think that the EDT keypad would fit perfectly, but alas
doesn't. Come to think of it, maybe it's actually better this way.
Why? So you don't hit the PF2 key accidentally when you want a nearby
key! OK.
One thing that's a little weird, and totally undocumented AFAICT, is
that whenever there is a conflict between the remote key definitions
and the local ones, adding Cmd to the key makes it work in the remote
session -- the VAX in this particular case -- leaving the un-Cmd-ed
key to execute its normal local Mac function.
I almost never log in to a VAX from home anymore, since my last desk
died at the end of 2010, which is why it took me a short while to re-
figure this all out again.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
I speak to them saying, "Stupid machine" (with what is mostly likely a
slight Bangladesh accent). And sometimes, "Work you son bitch".
AEF
> In article <a72ab4a9-9865-49bf-b197-870420709...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 7, 9:57=A0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 7, 9:52=A0am, VAXman- =...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> >[...]
> >> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
> >st, a
> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
> >)
> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> >> > keypad with EDT. =A0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. =A0=
> >I did
> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
> >s to
> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
> >ed.
>
> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
> >> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
>
> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>
> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
> 'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
> returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
> Xmodmap definition.
I don't have a Linux laptop, or any laptop, for that matter. I gave my
> >[...]
> >> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D" key in just the wrong place!
>
> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D] key? =A0I've used my Mac keyboards (fir=
> >st, a
> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium version=
> >)
> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style numeric
> >> > keypad with EDT. =A0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux. =A0=
> >I did
> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =A0I've even implemented 'udex' trigger=
> >s to
> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and remov=
> >ed.
>
> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D" key also
> >> remaps the main "=3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D" character.
>
> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>
> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
> 'xev'. The [+/=] returns keycode 21 while the [=] of the numeric keypad
> returns keycode 125. So they are distinctly different keys as far as an
> Xmodmap definition.
aluminum Apple keyboard to a friend. I found it to be an ergonomic
nightmare, and also just really annoying to press the keys on. Note
that the Fn keys are evenly spaced. Better that they should be in
groups of four, making it easier to find the key you want, quickly.
Too much form over function.
Took a quick look in Terminal. I don't know it can be done there. I
can't recall what I did last time. So how can I do it without spending
hundreds for a laptop and what not?
OK. I retraced my steps. Back in the pre-2011 days when I was still
logging into the VAX at work from home on a regular basis (but with
decreasing frequency), I was using SmarTerm on my Mac. SmarTerm has a
mapping function that displays the PC keyboard and the DEC keyboard.
You map them by matching keys by clicking them. Alernatively you can
define a key via a drop-down menu with all sorts of special escapes
sequences and what not. I got everything to work except matching PF2
to the keypad = key. On the top row of a PC you have NumLock, /, *, -.
Mapping them to PF1, PF3, PF4, and - worked great. The PF2 key
remained a problem. The only way I could do it with SmarTerm was to
remap the main = key, which meant that the main = key would also
become PF2. So it was the fact that I was using a PC-oriented emulator
which thwarted my efforts to make a PF2 key in the right place on my
Mac. Yeah, no surprise, there.
I did managed to get the F13 key mapped to Help by using the Scroll
Lock key on the PC keyboard and used Gold PF7 for the Do key. It was
okay, as I didn't use the Help key very often. It's just a little
disappointing after seeing two keys where the PC has only one would
make one think that the EDT keypad would fit perfectly, but alas
doesn't. Come to think of it, maybe it's actually better this way.
Why? So you don't hit the PF2 key accidentally when you want a nearby
key! OK.
One thing that's a little weird, and totally undocumented AFAICT, is
that whenever there is a conflict between the remote key definitions
and the local ones, adding Cmd to the key makes it work in the remote
session -- the VAX in this particular case -- leaving the un-Cmd-ed
key to execute its normal local Mac function.
I almost never log in to a VAX from home anymore, since my last desk
died at the end of 2010, which is why it took me a short while to re-
figure this all out again.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>
> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
slight Bangladesh accent). And sometimes, "Work you son bitch".
AEF
AEF
Jun 11, 2013, 9:28:07 PM6/11/13
to
On Jun 11, 10:05 am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
wrote:
Hmmm, on webster.com, also! Evidently, it's now a real, bona fide
word!
AEF
wrote:
word!
AEF
VAXman-
Jun 12, 2013, 7:26:38 AM6/12/13
to
In article <6a33ec12-638b-4b94...@5g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jun 7, 3:55=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <a72ab4a9-9865-49bf-b197-870420709...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.=
>com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >On Jun 7, 9:57=3DA0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>ce!
>>
>> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D3D] key? =3DA0I've used my Mac keyboar=
>ds (fir=3D
>> >st, a
>> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium vers=
>ion=3D
>> >)
>> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style nume=
>ric
>> >> > keypad with EDT. =3DA0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux=
>.. =3DA0=3D
>> >I did
>> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =3DA0I've even implemented 'udex' tr=
>igger=3D
>> >s to
>> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and re=
>mov=3D
>> >ed.
>>
>> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D3D" key also
>> >> remaps the main "=3D3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D3D" character.
>eypad
>> returns keycode 125. =A0So they are distinctly different keys as far as a=
If you really want LK-style layout, then get an LK-463 keyboard. Xmodmap
that to your needs. FWIW, I used an LK-463 keyboard at the last OpenVMS
Bootcamp when I presented my DCL Debugger session. I plugged it into my
HP Envy 17 running Ubuntu 12.10 Linux and the EmuVM AlphaVM-Free emulator
running OpenVMS V8.4 to demonstrate my DCL Debugger with *full* LK keypad
support. My only issue then was of a Pavlovian nature with the location
of the [CTRL] key after being conditionalized to its location on a laptop
keyboard.
>On Jun 7, 3:55=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <a72ab4a9-9865-49bf-b197-870420709...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.=
>com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >On Jun 7, 9:57=3DA0am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jun 7, 9:52=3DA0am, VAXman- =3D...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >> > >Too bad the Mac has that stupid "=3D3D3D" key in just the wrong pla=
>> >[...]
>ce!
>>
>> >> > What's the issue with the [=3D3D] key? =3DA0I've used my Mac keyboar=
>ds (fir=3D
>> >st, a
>> >> > white plastic bluetooth wireless and now USB tethered aluminium vers=
>ion=3D
>> >)
>> >> > with EDT without any issues using those keypads as the LK-style nume=
>ric
>> >> > keypad with EDT. =3DA0Works fine for me too with both OS X and Linux=
>.. =3DA0=3D
>> >I did
>> >> > have to .Xmodmap for Linux use. =3DA0I've even implemented 'udex' tr=
>igger=3D
>> >s to
>> >> > execute xmodmap for the USB Mac keyboard when it's plugged in and re=
>mov=3D
>> >ed.
>>
>> >> I tried this many moons ago and remapping the keypad "=3D3D" key also
>> >> remaps the main "=3D3D" key, thereby losing the "=3D3D" character.
>>
>> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>>
>> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
>> 'xev'. =A0The [+/=3D] returns keycode 21 while the [=3D] of the numeric k=
>> >I'll get back to you on this when I get home.
>>
>> I just plugged the aluminium Apple keyboard into my Linux laptop and ran
>eypad
>> returns keycode 125. =A0So they are distinctly different keys as far as a=
>n
>> Xmodmap definition.
>
>I don't have a Linux laptop, or any laptop, for that matter. I gave my
>aluminum Apple keyboard to a friend. I found it to be an ergonomic
>nightmare, and also just really annoying to press the keys on. Note
>that the Fn keys are evenly spaced. Better that they should be in
>groups of four, making it easier to find the key you want, quickly.
>Too much form over function.
You *can* use XEV on Mac OS X too.
>> Xmodmap definition.
>
>I don't have a Linux laptop, or any laptop, for that matter. I gave my
>aluminum Apple keyboard to a friend. I found it to be an ergonomic
>nightmare, and also just really annoying to press the keys on. Note
>that the Fn keys are evenly spaced. Better that they should be in
>groups of four, making it easier to find the key you want, quickly.
>Too much form over function.
If you really want LK-style layout, then get an LK-463 keyboard. Xmodmap
that to your needs. FWIW, I used an LK-463 keyboard at the last OpenVMS
Bootcamp when I presented my DCL Debugger session. I plugged it into my
HP Envy 17 running Ubuntu 12.10 Linux and the EmuVM AlphaVM-Free emulator
running OpenVMS V8.4 to demonstrate my DCL Debugger with *full* LK keypad
support. My only issue then was of a Pavlovian nature with the location
of the [CTRL] key after being conditionalized to its location on a laptop
keyboard.
VAXman-
Jun 12, 2013, 7:32:07 AM6/12/13
to
In article <a9528af5-f71b-4ff5...@n5g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jun 11, 10:05=A0am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
detailing both its definition and etymology!
>On Jun 11, 10:05=A0am, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
>wrote:
>> On 2013-06-11 04:00:17 +0000, AEF said:
>>
>> > OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
>>
>> Grok is listed in the OS X dictionary. =A0:-)
>> On 2013-06-11 04:00:17 +0000, AEF said:
>>
>> > OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
>
>Hmmm, on webster.com, also! Evidently, it's now a real, bona fide
>word!
It must be a bona fide word if the Oxford Concise lists it as a neologism
>> --
>> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
>
>Hmmm, on webster.com, also! Evidently, it's now a real, bona fide
>word!
detailing both its definition and etymology!
AEF
Jun 12, 2013, 4:57:14 PM6/12/13
to
On Jun 6, 11:16 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 6, 10:04 pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
> Hi Hoff!
>
>
>
> > > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> > vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
> What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
> keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
> direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
> want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
>
>
> > case-sensitive search:
> > /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> > ?target and n or N
>
> You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
>
>
> > case-blind search:
> > /target\c and n or N
> > ?target\c and n or N
>
> Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
>
>
>
> > * and # search for the next and previous instances of the word at the
> > cursor, too, then n or N to continue the search.
>
> There's an EDT macro I got from someone c. 1992 that can do this!
> Actually, it takes what's in the paste buffer and puts it in the
> search buffer.
Change that to: "It takes the current selection and puts that into the
> On Jun 6, 10:04 pm, Stephen Hoffman <seaoh...@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2013-06-07 01:21:52 +0000, AEF said:
>
> Hi Hoff!
>
>
>
> > > Bummer. It's hard to beat EDT for Find and Find Next.
>
> > vim or other editors provide rather more than EDT.
>
> What I meant was the design of what keys, where they are, and what
> keys start the Find operation, go to the next occurrence, and change
> direction. I don't want to press Esc, N and shift-N and / and ?; I
> want to press PF1, PF3, and 4 and 5. I elaborate on this below.
>
>
>
> > case-sensitive search:
> > /target for the search, and then n or N for the next or previous matches.
> > ?target and n or N
>
> You can use Eve with the EDT keypad to do this, I believe.
>
>
>
> > case-blind search:
> > /target\c and n or N
> > ?target\c and n or N
>
> Can be done with EVE with the EDT keypad, no?
>
>
>
> > * and # search for the next and previous instances of the word at the
> > cursor, too, then n or N to continue the search.
>
> There's an EDT macro I got from someone c. 1992 that can do this!
> Actually, it takes what's in the paste buffer and puts it in the
> search buffer.
search buffer".
Here's that macro if anyone's interested:
DEFINE KEY GOLD FUNCTION 1 AS "cutsr paste -bl ext cl F_MAC; def mac
F_MAC; f=F_MAC; c; if '^Z paste i'^Z ext f last; F_MAC ."
Instructions: Add the above command to your EDT startup file and rerun
it. Put the cursor at the beginning of the desired string. Press
Select (.). Move the cursor over the word. Then press Gold Function
1.
The only problem is that the string cannot contain an apostrophe. A
small price to pay, I think. IOW, still pretty good.
[...]
AEF
AEF
Jun 12, 2013, 8:13:29 PM6/12/13
to
On Jun 12, 7:26 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
Just checked it out. OK, with xev I found that the two = keys send
different codes. OK. And with those I would use xmodmap to re-map some
keys. All I really want to do is move the PFn keys to the top row of
the keypad. Well, I'd like page up and page down to do their thing,
but in Terminal they are used for scrollback.
Thanks.
AEF
different codes. OK. And with those I would use xmodmap to re-map some
keys. All I really want to do is move the PFn keys to the top row of
the keypad. Well, I'd like page up and page down to do their thing,
but in Terminal they are used for scrollback.
Thanks.
AEF
Paul Sture
Jun 19, 2013, 8:37:38 AM6/19/13
to
In article <kp7ahd$6tg$1...@dont-email.me>,
<https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/27086/beolingus-german-english-diction
ary-plugin>
--
Paul Sture
Stephen Hoffman <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote:
> On 2013-06-11 04:00:17 +0000, AEF said:
>
> > OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
>
> Grok is listed in the OS X dictionary. :-)
Also in the German-English OS X Dictionary add-on downloadable here:
> On 2013-06-11 04:00:17 +0000, AEF said:
>
> > OK, thanks. I thought it (grok) might have been a typo. :)
>
> Grok is listed in the OS X dictionary. :-)
<https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/27086/beolingus-german-english-diction
ary-plugin>
--
Paul Sture
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