OT: the non-programming programmer :-)
Neil Rieck
Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
interviews can't program. At all
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-programmer.html
p.s. reminds me of the spread-sheet jockeys who "think" they are
programmers. On a related note, in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs many
people were portrayed as scribes even though most were illiterate. So
maybe most people today want to be portrayed as coders even though
they don't have a clue.
NSR
Bill Gunshannon
Neil Rieck <n.r...@sympatico.ca> writes:
> I find it difficult to believe, but the reports keep pouring in via
> Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
> interviews can't program. At all
Which doesn't stop them from getting hired.
>
> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-programmer.html
>
> p.s. reminds me of the spread-sheet jockeys who "think" they are
> programmers. On a related note, in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs many
> people were portrayed as scribes even though most were illiterate. So
> maybe most people today want to be portrayed as coders even though
> they don't have a clue.
Personally, i think the whole industry is going down the crapper and
I am glad I will be retiring before too much longer. I have been
applying for various jobs for over 6 years (I have lng since tired of
academia). Most places today use automated systems to pick the
resumes they are going to consider (RESUMIX being the top contender).
The reply I get 95% of the time is "Not in the pool of best qualified".
As you might imagine, with over 30 years of experience in many facets
of the IT world I find this uterly amazing. And, to make matters even
worse, I was actually called for an interview recently for a job that
required current experience with a very specific hardware environment
that was not only not on my resume but in the pre-interview I stressed
the fact that I did not work with the specific hardware they were using.
I have long said that the supposed glut of IT proessionals was bogus
and based on the number of Linux weenies who ran a web site for 3
weeks during the dot-com boom who now claim they are "Experienced
IT Professionals". They do, apparently, have one skill I lack. They
have no problem inflating their resume and cutting-and-pasting lines
from vacancy announcements into it.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Michael Kraemer
Neil Rieck <n.r...@sympatico.ca> writes:
That's what they call progress, I guess.
Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up
series of 1's and 0's by hand. Those people would
think of a 1980's HL language programmer as being a
"compiler weenie".
Bob Eager
Hmmm. Not long ago I interviewed an applicant for a CS degree programme
(i.e. she wanted to study CS). I asked her a standard question (what do
you think the difference is between CS and IT) and she couldn't answer.
So I explained. After three or four minutes a look of horror spread over
her face, and she said: "But I don't want to do PROGRAMMING!". She was
under the impression that a CS degree was about spending three years
learning how to use Word, etc. really well. I didn't have to reject her -
she walked!
I don't necessarily blame her, but the careers advisers at her school.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
FrankS
> I find it difficult to believe, but the reports keep pouring in via
> Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
> interviews can't program. At all
The more I work with Outlook, IE, and Windows in general the more I
realize that these folks all got jobs at Microsoft.
VAXman-
This could easily explain the product output from that outfit HQed in the
Pacific Northwest.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
http://www.quirkfactory.com/popart/asskey/eqn2.png
Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by
turning them into poor people. -- Billy Ray Valentine
VAXman-
>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:34:12 -0800, Neil Rieck wrote:
>
>> I find it difficult to believe, but the reports keep pouring in via
>> Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
>> interviews can't program. At all
>>
>> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-
>programmer.html
>>
>> p.s. reminds me of the spread-sheet jockeys who "think" they are
>> programmers. On a related note, in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs many
>> people were portrayed as scribes even though most were illiterate. So
>> maybe most people today want to be portrayed as coders even though they
>> don't have a clue.
>
>Hmmm. Not long ago I interviewed an applicant for a CS degree programme
>(i.e. she wanted to study CS). I asked her a standard question (what do
>you think the difference is between CS and IT) and she couldn't answer.
I get ^x0601 if you use ASCII.
Neil Rieck
> In article <0ad2741b-4bc2-4afa-a02b-c549a75c6...@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Neil Rieck <n.ri...@sympatico.ca> writes:
> > I find it difficult to believe, but the reports keep pouring in via
> > Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
> > interviews can't program. At all
>
>
> > p.s. reminds me of the spread-sheet jockeys who "think" they are
> > programmers. On a related note, in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs many
> > people were portrayed as scribes even though most were illiterate. So
> > maybe most people today want to be portrayed as coders even though
> > they don't have a clue.
>
> That's what they call progress, I guess.
> Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up
> series of 1's and 0's by hand. Those people would
> think of a 1980's HL language programmer as being a
> "compiler weenie".
As someone who learned how to program by toggling-in binary numbers
via the front console of an Interdata Model 70 (an IBM clone), moving
to a MACRO assembler was like getting a bicycle. Getting a compiler
was like getting a car. But I hear where you are coming from.
NSR
Bob Koehler
>
> As someone who learned how to program by toggling-in binary numbers
> via the front console of an Interdata Model 70 (an IBM clone), moving
> to a MACRO assembler was like getting a bicycle. Getting a compiler
> was like getting a car. But I hear where you are coming from.
And getting C++ is like getting a Lincoln Navigator, even if it's
just to carry groceries home in Honolulu.
But getting MS Office, that's like getting a mile long freight train,
even if you're just carrying a post card. (An empty MS Word 2007
document now uses 12.0 KB of disk space).
George Cornelius
> In article <0ad2741b-4bc2-4afa...@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> Neil Rieck <n.r...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>> I find it difficult to believe, but the reports keep pouring in via
>> Twitter and email: many candidates who show up for programming job
>> interviews can't program. At all
>>
>> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-programmer.html
>>
>> p.s. reminds me of the spread-sheet jockeys who "think" they are
>> programmers. On a related note, in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs many
>> people were portrayed as scribes even though most were illiterate. So
>> maybe most people today want to be portrayed as coders even though
>> they don't have a clue.
>
> That's what they call progress, I guess.
> Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up
> series of 1's and 0's by hand.
You had zeros?
> Those people would
> think of a 1980's HL language programmer as being a
> "compiler weenie".
George Cornelius
MetaEd
wrote:
> In article <hlu0re$t9...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.krae...@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes:
> > Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up
> > series of 1's and 0's by hand.
>
> You had zeros?
You had hands?
George Cornelius
> On Feb 23, 8:05=A0am, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)
> wrote:
>> In article <hlu0re$t9...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.krae...@gsi.de (M=
> ichael Kraemer) writes:
>> > Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up
>> > series of 1's and 0's by hand.
>>
>> You had zeros?
>
> You had hands?
Actually, I stole the quip above and was wondering if anyone would
pick up on it. [Extra credit for posting a link to the original
Dilbert cartoon].
George Cornelius
H Vlems
wrote:
I recognized the quote George, had forgotten that it came from
Dilbert! <G>
Rob Brown
I didn't remember Dilbert until you mentioned it. "You had zeros?"
reminded me of the Monty Python Four Yorkshiremen Sketch
<http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/monty-python-four-yorkshiremen.html>.
--
Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m
G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice)
Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX)
http://gmcl.com/
Bob Eager
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 at 09:54 -0600, George Cornelius wrote:
>> In article
>> <0c4e5ae2-c9fe-45ff...@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
>> MetaEd <met...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Feb 23, 8:05=A0am, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <hlu0re$t9...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>,
>>>> m.krae...@gsi.de (M=
>>> ichael Kraemer) writes:
>>>>> Maybe sixty years ago "programming" meant to line up series of 1's
>>>>> and 0's by hand.
>>>>
>>>> You had zeros?
>>>
>>> You had hands?
>>
>> Actually, I stole the quip above and was wondering if anyone would pick
>> up on it. [Extra credit for posting a link to the original Dilbert
>> cartoon].
>
> I didn't remember Dilbert until you mentioned it. "You had zeros?"
> reminded me of the Monty Python Four Yorkshiremen Sketch
> <http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/monty-python-four-
yorkshiremen.html>.
Yes, that was the direction my thoughts went, too!
seasoned_geek
3 years of answering email in Outlook and 6 months of writing
documents in Word along with 6 months of MS Project.
Absolutely nothing about actual technology covered.
Peter Weaver
wrote:
>...
> Actually, I stole the quip above and was wondering if anyone would
> pick up on it. [Extra credit for posting a link to the original
> Dilbert cartoon].
>
> George Cornelius
When searching for Dilbert quotes I find http://www.bfmartin.ca works
pretty well. It gave me;
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1992-09-08/
and this one is also funny, but not what you wanted;
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2005-05-08/
While I'm off-topic anyway and talking about search engines, is anyone
else amazed by what http://www.tineye.com does? You give tineye a
picture and it finds other copies and/or slightly modified versions of
the same pictures. This is great for photographers who want to make
sure their photos are not being used without their permission, but it
is also a fun way to play around with.
Peter Weaver
http://www.weaverconsulting.ca
Winner of the OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System
Management/Performance
http://www.linkedin.com/in/peterweaver
Marc Van Dyck
> No that's the MBA degree with IT Project Management.
>
> 3 years of answering email in Outlook and 6 months of writing
> documents in Word along with 6 months of MS Project.
>
> Absolutely nothing about actual technology covered.
>
confronted with everyday. A pain in the neck.
--
Marc Van Dyck
H Vlems
Marc Van Dyck
> On Feb 25, 1:10ï¿œam, Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr.vand...@invalid.skynet.be>
No, I'm not involved in the choice, unfortunately.
--
Marc Van Dyck
George Cornelius
> When searching for Dilbert quotes I find http://www.bfmartin.ca works
> pretty well. It gave me;
>
> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1992-09-08/
This was the one. I must have seen it when it was originally
published, because my copy, which I have misplaced, is a strip
from the newspaper and is just ink on paper. Someone had
posted it on a glass partition in the data center.
Perfectly captures the familiar scenario - never seen here, of
course - of the curmudgeons sitting around trying to be the
one with the most outlandish story of how they had to get by
on just about nothing back in the old days.
>
> and this one is also funny, but not what you wanted;
>
> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2005-05-08/
It's OK, but he's pretty much beaten to death the story line
of the consultant leading the idiot boss down the garden path.
Scott Adams leaves no doubt about where he stands on
office politics.
George Cornelius
Neil Rieck
> On Feb 24, 10:54 am, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)
> wrote:
>
> >...
> > Actually, I stole the quip above and was wondering if anyone would
> > pick up on it. [Extra credit for posting a link to the original
> > Dilbert cartoon].
>
> > George Cornelius
>
> When searching for Dilbert quotes I findhttp://www.bfmartin.caworks
> pretty well. It gave me;
>
> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1992-09-08/
>
> and this one is also funny, but not what you wanted;
>
> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2005-05-08/
>
> While I'm off-topic anyway and talking about search engines, is anyone
> picture and it finds other copies and/or slightly modified versions of
> the same pictures. This is great for photographers who want to make
> sure their photos are not being used without their permission, but it
> is also a fun way to play around with.
>
> Winner of the OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System
> Management/Performancehttp://www.linkedin.com/in/peterweaver
Peter,
Thanks for the link to the Dilbert Finder. Here are my two favorite
Dilberts:
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-11-09/ (look, "actual code"; then the
consultants head blows up)
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1994-06-10/ (a million lines of
undocumented spaghetti logic; it's the holy grail)
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html