Bigger isn't always better!
VAXman-
quite a bit of time because they are a 24x7 operation and there is
very little downtime. We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
The machine would go down, we'd back up the system disk and then update
to V8.3. On 3 of the 4 occasions, the system was restored to its prior
version as something was discovered that would not function under V8.3.
We finally got all of the necessary software bits updates, ironed out
all of the wrinkles and they had been running on V8.3 since Labor Day
weekend. Advanced Server was the biggest PITA!
Yesterday morning I reveived a call from a panicking system manager.
One of the apps they rely upon just stopped working. I asked him the
typical questions trying to ascertain if they have changed anything on
the system. Of course, the answer was "No!" They were in a panic and
were ready to revert back to the old system version. I convinced them
that that was stupid because the app was working up until yesterday.
I was not familiar with the app in question. About an hour later, I
received a call from the system manager and I was told that one of the
users had been logged in for several days and the app still worked for
them. Hmm. So we set out to see what was different. I suspected a
logical name change or something similar but that was not the problem.
I was given instructions on how to access this app. So, I logged into
their system and then I decided I would log in again and log everything.
I issued a $ SET HOST/LOG 0 from the telnet session I'd created when I
logged in. He walked me through the app and it worked!!! Hmm! What
was different from my SET HOST session and my TELNET session that would
cause such an issue.
I told them that logging in with the SET HOST 0 worked, so they used it
as a user work-around until I had an answer. I needed to leave and go
on an errand. While driving, it dawned on as to what their problem was.
My telnet session created device TNA13301: Their software app was still
assuming a maximum of 9999. When I returned home, I logged into their
system and set DEVICE_NAMING to 4 and edited MODPARAMS.DAT to reflect the
same.
I then informed the system manager there of my supposition that it was
the length of the device name causing the problem and that I set their
DEVICE_NAMING SYSGEN param to 4 to restore the old limit at 9999. They
were not convinced. So, I took it upon myself to use my favorite DELTA
hack and I patched the TNA0 UCB$W_UNIT_SEED to 1. I logged in again and
now I had TNA5: (several logins already!) and the app worked! I reported
this and they were delighted. Not only did they no longer need the double
login work-around but they didn't need a reboot in the middle of their
workday! A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
Mark Daniel
Excellent war-horse story.
Haven't enjoyed such a good read on c.o.v. in a long time!
Congratulations BTW.
--
Yossarian: They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?
Doc Daneeka: Who else will go?
[Joseph Heller; Catch-22]
Neil Rieck
Thanks for sharing this. While I don't think your problem will affect
me (but then again you never know) I am currently preparing for an
upgrade from OpenVMS-8.2 to OpenVMS-8.3 just so we can use the new HP
version of CIFS (a.k.a. SAMBA)
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html
VAXman-
FWIW, the impetus behind the upgrade WAS to use CIFS/SAMBA. It turns
out that SAMBA was grossly inadequate for the job compared to an older
PathWorks version the site was running. Fortunately, Advanced Server
V7.2-B (?IIRC) was available to fill that void. There were numerous
buggers in the AS V7.2-B that were uncovered (I wrote here about the
PCB$V_NODELET bit being set on the PWRK$LMSRV causing _more_ than its
fair share of unpleasantness.) but the HP folks did fix those issues.
(I believe the PCB$V_NODELET is still set though.)
One of the people at this customer's site opened a text document on a
Weendoze PeeCee with whatever app that they had used before and SAMBA
presented a gobbledegook of run-on lines devoid of record breaks. I
would check out SAMBA carefully before putting it into production. I
have it installed here and try to use it with OS X. I can read files
from a SAMBA served disk but trying to store a file on the SAMBA disk
is impossible. I have NFS to fall back upon so it is not of any real
concern to me but IMHO SAMBA is not ready for prime-time yet. YMMV.
bradhamilton
> In article <1192292586....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck <n.r...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>> Thanks for sharing this. While I don't think your problem will affect
>> me (but then again you never know) I am currently preparing for an
>> upgrade from OpenVMS-8.2 to OpenVMS-8.3 just so we can use the new HP
>> version of CIFS (a.k.a. SAMBA)
>
> FWIW, the impetus behind the upgrade WAS to use CIFS/SAMBA. It turns
> out that SAMBA was grossly inadequate for the job compared to an older
> PathWorks version the site was running. Fortunately, Advanced Server
> V7.2-B (?IIRC) was available to fill that void. There were numerous
> buggers in the AS V7.2-B that were uncovered (I wrote here about the
> PCB$V_NODELET bit being set on the PWRK$LMSRV causing _more_ than its
> fair share of unpleasantness.) but the HP folks did fix those issues.
> (I believe the PCB$V_NODELET is still set though.)
>
> One of the people at this customer's site opened a text document on a
> Weendoze PeeCee with whatever app that they had used before and SAMBA
> presented a gobbledegook of run-on lines devoid of record breaks. I
> would check out SAMBA carefully before putting it into production. I
> have it installed here and try to use it with OS X. I can read files
> from a SAMBA served disk but trying to store a file on the SAMBA disk
> is impossible. I have NFS to fall back upon so it is not of any real
> concern to me but IMHO SAMBA is not ready for prime-time yet. YMMV.
>
Folks,
Please consider continuing to share your experiences involving upgrading
from SAMBA 2.2.8 or migrating from AS to CIFS. I had a bad experience
attempting to upgrade from 2.2.8 to an earlier iteration of CIFS last
year, and have been looking for others who have made a successful
transition to attempt to learn from their experiences. Thanks!
Jan-Erik Söderholm
> Folks,
>
> Please consider continuing to share your experiences involving upgrading
> from SAMBA 2.2.8 or migrating from AS to CIFS. I had a bad experience
> attempting to upgrade from 2.2.8 to an earlier iteration of CIFS last
> year, and have been looking for others who have made a successful
> transition to attempt to learn from their experiences. Thanks!
FWIW, I was at the "VMS Tech Update" in Stockholm/Sweden
last week. One of the sessions was an update on CIFS run
by Jim Janetos "OpenVMS Base Operating System Lab Manager".
In case the presentation might include something "new", I've
put a copy on my site : http://www.jescab.se/upload/cifs.pdf
During Jim's presentation someone from the last row did a
comment that some guys at the Technical highschool in
Stockholm had made a VMS port of SAMBA with full cluster
support quite some years ago, which seemed to surpriced
Jim quite a lot... :-) :-)
B.t.w, I've been using one of the "non-HP" ports
of SAMBA in VMS for some time but only on my "office"
system...
Jan-Erik.
Main, Kerry
mmmm... since the version of Samba that you likely were using is only beta FT1, I guess it would go without saying that it is not ready for production yet. Apparently, beta FT2 has only recently been announced as being available.
:-)
Reference:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER
>Excellent war-horse story.
>
>Haven't enjoyed such a good read on c.o.v. in a long time!
>
>Congratulations BTW.
I second this (all three statements)!
--
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail pe...@langstoeger.at
A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist
Richard Maher
You gotta love these bugs that can run for days, weeks or possibly months in
test/live before they sit up and bite you :-( If anyone would like to see a
similar story/experience you can look at: -
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1074590
or for a more in-depth analysis, search COV for "chez Maher" via Google.
Cheers Richard Maher
PS. One would hope that these experience would encourage those at VMS
versioning to "turn off" *all* new/changed functionality by default. (No
matter how amazing they think their baby is, and how stupid it would be for
customers to opt for stability over of the best thing since sliced-bread -
But I doubt it.)
<VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message
news:hj2Qi.2$mN...@newsfe12.lga...
VAXman-
>
>
>Hi Brian,
>
>You gotta love these bugs that can run for days, weeks or possibly months in
>test/live before they sit up and bite you :-( If anyone would like to see a
>similar story/experience you can look at: -
>
>http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1074590
>
>or for a more in-depth analysis, search COV for "chez Maher" via Google.
>
>Cheers Richard Maher
You too with TNAs!
>PS. One would hope that these experience would encourage those at VMS
>versioning to "turn off" *all* new/changed functionality by default. (No
>matter how amazing they think their baby is, and how stupid it would be for
>customers to opt for stability over of the best thing since sliced-bread -
>But I doubt it.)
There are a number of new features in releases of VMS and if the default was
to maintain old behavior, I believe many sites would NEVER implement them.
The problem is that this site is using a third-party library which interfaces
with some old equipment (hand-held terminal/scanners like you may see used in
markets by clerks doing inventory of product on shelves) and these units are
no longer being supported by the company that had manufactured or sold them.
I know that I will now go back and check any of my code to see if it stores
a device name and if so, if there is sufficient storage space. We have all
had to make code changes when VMS changed so I don't agree that shipping the
latest and greatest with a new feature disabled is the right thing to do. I
am just happy that in this particular case I could turn off the new feature
since there was no way to change the code.
P. Sture
wrote:
Which emphasises the need to read release notes in full so that you are
aware of which areas have changed, and the possible ramifications of
them.
Nice story - thanks for sharing it.
This newsgroup isn't dead yet!
--
Paul Sture
Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html
David J Dachtera
>
> In article <ferkm8$nd0$1...@news-01.bur.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" <mahe...@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:
> >
> >
> >Hi Brian,
> >
> >You gotta love these bugs that can run for days, weeks or possibly months in
> >test/live before they sit up and bite you :-( If anyone would like to see a
> >similar story/experience you can look at: -
> >
> >http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1074590
> >
> >or for a more in-depth analysis, search COV for "chez Maher" via Google.
> >
> >Cheers Richard Maher
>
> You too with TNAs!
T 'n' A would also be considered off topic, I suspect ;-)
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
VAXman-
{...snip..}
>>
>> You too with TNAs!
>
>T 'n' A would also be considered off topic, I suspect ;-)
ROTFLMFAO!
John E. Malmberg
> bradhamilton wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Please consider continuing to share your experiences involving
>> upgrading from SAMBA 2.2.8 or migrating from AS to CIFS. I had a bad
>> experience attempting to upgrade from 2.2.8 to an earlier iteration of
>> CIFS last year, and have been looking for others who have made a
>> successful transition to attempt to learn from their experiences.
>> Thanks!
>
>
> FWIW, I was at the "VMS Tech Update" in Stockholm/Sweden
> last week. One of the sessions was an update on CIFS run
> by Jim Janetos "OpenVMS Base Operating System Lab Manager".
>
> In case the presentation might include something "new", I've
> put a copy on my site : http://www.jescab.se/upload/cifs.pdf
>
> During Jim's presentation someone from the last row did a
> comment that some guys at the Technical highschool in
> Stockholm had made a VMS port of SAMBA with full cluster
> support quite some years ago, which seemed to surpriced
> Jim quite a lot... :-) :-)
The term "Cluster support" as has been much misinterpreted by many people.
From the Advanced Server point of view, "Cluster Support" means that
the Microsoft style file locking works on the entire cluster, and that
there is a cluster wide file cache.
As of January 2007, I was totally unaware of any public Samba for VMS
port that was properly supporting the Microsoft style file locking on a
single node. In most cases, either RMS locking or no locking were being
used. With no locking, there is a high risk of corruption if multiple
clients modified the same file, and with RMS locking, many simultaneous
locking modes did did not work.
In August of 2006 I finally got the SAMBA locking test to pass on VMS,
and got the locking working for accessing the local user/password tdb.
As I left the project shortly after that, and have not looked at the any
of the downloads, I do not know if any of that has been integrated into
the field test kits.
The VMS ports of SAMBA that I have seen have significant functionality
removed as compared to the UNIX versions.
IIRC: fixing them requires using the OpenLDAP client library instead of
the one in VMS, and exporting "public" some "private" routines in
Kerberos, and OpenSSL.
-John
wb8...@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
Neil Rieck
>
[...snip...]
> mmmm... since the version of Samba that you likely were using is only beta FT1, I guess it would go without saying that it is not ready for production yet. Apparently, beta FT2 has only recently been announced as being available.
>
> Reference:http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html
>
> Regards
> Kerry Main
>
Thanks for the link Kerry but I'd like mention that the hyperlink you
provided has been dead for the past half hour. Perhaps HP has got
another router problem in their server room.
FrankS
> Perhaps HP has got
> another router problem in their server room.
It seems to me that HP has router issues every Sunday. I regularly
and consistently have problems getting to any of their web sites on
Sundays. Either someone is turning the lights out and not realizing
the routers are plugged in to the same socket, or it's just their
maintenance window.
Tom Linden
wrote:
There are servers available, such as
http://www.csparks.com/CygwinNFS/index.xhtml
but no readily available clients. I would think it fairly
straight-forward to
port a unix nfs client to cygwin. This should then give full nfs symmetry
with
VMS. I haven't had a pressing need to do so since I get pretty much the
(for me)
needed functionality using WASD.
>
> -John
> wb8...@qsl.network
> Personal Opinion Only
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
> The machine would go down,
> A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bi...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> One of the people at this customer's site opened a text document on a
> Weendoze PeeCee with whatever app that they had used before and SAMBA
> presented a gobbledegook of run-on lines devoid of record breaks. I
> would check out SAMBA carefully before putting it into production.
SAMBA doesn't convert files between incompatable formats, it serves you
whatever you put int he file. What do you think would happen if you
opened a MS Word document with LSE on VMS?
> I
> have it installed here and try to use it with OS X. I can read files
> from a SAMBA served disk but trying to store a file on the SAMBA disk
> is impossible.
Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share
files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the
days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS
(when we still had it) without any really problems.
> I have NFS to fall back upon so it is not of any real
> concern to me but IMHO SAMBA is not ready for prime-time yet. YMMV.
Unless your willing to manually map every user (OK with one or two, but
try keeping up with it when the number tops a couple hundred) NFS between
Unix and VMS is a pretty poor alternative. SAMBA has worked quite well
at least a decade now.
VAXman-
>
>
>In article <hj2Qi.2$mN...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>
>> We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
>> The machine would go down,
>> A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
>Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
If the SYSGEN parameter is not dynamic, it must be. I could have "patched"
more than just the TNA0:'s UCB$W_UNIT_SEED value but I decided to "patch"
only enough to allow them to lumber along until a reboot could be scheduled.
When the time comes to need to update the OS on a running system, VMS is
poised, with the loadable executive, to be modified to do so better than
any of the other mainstream OSs.
VAXman-
{...snip...}
>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share
>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the
>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS
>(when we still had it) without any really problems.
I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can
access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic.
Ron Johnson
2.2.8????????? That's *ancient*. It was released 4.5 years ago.
Even v2.2.12, the last of the v2.2 series, was release 3 years ago.
The 3.0.x series was first released in Sept 2003, and is now up to
v3.0.26a.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
JF Mezei
> When the time comes to need to update the OS on a running system, VMS is
> poised, with the loadable executive, to be modified to do so better than
> any of the other mainstream OSs.
Mr VAXman, what percentage of the VMS system manager population would
have skills required to patch the running system with XDELTA to modify a
device characteristic ?
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> In article <5nhckjF...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
> {...snip...}
>>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share
>>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the
>>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS
>>(when we still had it) without any really problems.
>
> I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can
> access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic.
Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the
Mac and get a real computer. :-)
Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by
standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does
the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor
who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an
advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with
others!!)
Larry Kilgallen
> In article <hj2Qi.2$mN...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>
>> We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
>> The machine would go down,
> .....
>> A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
They at least need to be rebooted to test any alterations to the
startup command procedure.
AEF
> In article <hj2Qi.2$m...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
>
>
> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
> > The machine would go down,
> .....
> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
You thought wrong!!!
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
One of the very few sigs worth such repetition.
AEF
norm.r...@metso.com
bi...@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 10/15/2007 10:35:41 AM:
> In article <hj2Qi.2$mN...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> >
> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
> > The machine would go down,
> .....
> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
Well, the point is that an OpenVMS cluster production system can be
configured so that the applications on it can stay up over upgrades or
even physical moves of hardware. Not all VMS systems are so configured.
No one ever said any one machine would never need to be shutdown or
rebooted who know what he or she was saying.
...but you know that.
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
Bill Gunshannon
AEF <spamsi...@yahoo.com> writes:
> On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> In article <hj2Qi.2$m...@newsfe12.lga>,
>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
>> > The machine would go down,
>> .....
>> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>>
>> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
>
> You thought wrong!!!
Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the
big differences between Unix and VMS. :-)
>
>>
>> bill
>>
>> --
>> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
>> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>> University of Scranton |
>> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
>
> One of the very few sigs worth such repetition.
>
I can't claim it as original but I have used it for a long time.
Don't remember who I got it from.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bi...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Rich Jordan
> In article <1192474963.062051.114...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
The vast majority of our, and our customer VMS systems, not clustered,
or clustered in non-redundant non-survivable fashion (small fry!) go
down and reboot due to power failures. Thats it. Sure, the rare
upgrade, but other than that, they run.
None of the PC servers can come close.
The one customer who runs commercial *nix on a server platform
averages 180 day uptimes between reboot-requiring issues. Its an
older system, not upgraded in several years, but has never been
reliable. As a sample size of one its not definitive, but it sure has
made the one customer less than happy (even when we point out their
wintel stuff is even worse, to which they reply "but that's expected!"
de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves and a sheep voting on
what's for dinner.
li-ber-ty (li' ber tee) n. An armed sheep contesting the vote.
William Webb
>
>
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
>
> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
>
> http://tmesis.com/drat.html
>
I thought that DEVICE_NAMING had to do with SCSI port allocation classes.
At least that's what it's done when I've used it in the past.
Kindly explain.
8.3 Alpha or Integrity?
And what version of TCP/IP?
Thanks,
WWWebb
bradhamilton
[...]
>
> 2.2.8????????? That's *ancient*. It was released 4.5 years ago.
> Even v2.2.12, the last of the v2.2 series, was release 3 years ago.
>
> The 3.0.x series was first released in Sept 2003, and is now up to
> v3.0.26a.
>
Perhaps so, but until the "official" HP push for CIFS, this was the only
SAMBA available for VMS. For my (admittedly limited) purpose, (file
sharing on a home network behind a firewall) it works fine.
Newer isn't always better! :-)
VAXman-
From my statistical sample space of system managers in charge of the
systems here... 100%! ;)
VAXman-
>
>
>In article <ZJMQi.10$l%4...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>> In article <5nhckjF...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>> {...snip...}
>>>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share
>>>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the
>>>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS
>>>(when we still had it) without any really problems.
>>
>> I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can
>> access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic.
>
>Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the
>Mac and get a real computer. :-)
>
>Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by
>standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does
>the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor
>who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an
>advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with
>others!!)
In their defence, SMB is a M$ piece of shit protocol!
VAXman-
$ MCR SYSGEN HELP SYS_PARAM DEVICE_NAMING
Sys_Parameters
DEVICE_NAMING
(Alpha and I64) DEVICE_NAMING is a bit mask indicating whether
port allocation classes are used in forming SCSI device names.
Following is the bit definition:
Bit Definition
0 If 1, enable new naming.
1 Must be 0. This bit is reserved for use by HP.
2 If 1, cloned device unit numbers wrap after 9999.
For more information about port allocation classes, see HP
OpenVMS Cluster Systems.
I forget where I read it but bit 2 controls the device naming in the
latest TCPIP Services too.
Jilly
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote in message
news:5dc46$4713abf6$cef8887a$15...@TEKSAVVY.COM...
I couldn't begin to give you a percentage but I know I've trained my share
of them at the Customer Bootcamp on how to use XDELTA. One of the utilities
that a 'good' system mangler should be familiar with.
AEF
> In article <1192474963.062051.114...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
> AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> >> In article <hj2Qi.2$m...@newsfe12.lga>,
> >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> >> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
> >> > The machine would go down,
> >> .....
> >> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
> >> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?
>
> > You thought wrong!!!
>
> Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the
> big differences between Unix and VMS. :-)
Did anyone specifically put just that way?
>
>
> >> bill
>
> >> --
> >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
> >> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> >> University of Scranton |
> >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
>
> > One of the very few sigs worth such repetition.
>
> I can't claim it as original but I have used it for a long time.
> Don't remember who I got it from.
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
AEF
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> In article <5nhr8uF...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>
>>
>>In article <ZJMQi.10$l%4...@newsfe12.lga>,
>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>> In article <5nhckjF...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>> {...snip...}
>>>>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share
>>>>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the
>>>>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS
>>>>(when we still had it) without any really problems.
>>>
>>> I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can
>>> access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic.
>>
>>Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the
>>Mac and get a real computer. :-)
>>
>>Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by
>>standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does
>>the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor
>>who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an
>>advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with
>>others!!)
>
> In their defence, SMB is a M$ piece of shit protocol!
when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
the most part, broke it.)
bradhamilton
[...]
> I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB
> when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
> an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
> much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
My wife successfully uses WPA on her wireless iBook daily.
> cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
> Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
> could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
> other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
> Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
> the most part, broke it.)
So, has *BSD come up with WPA working "out of the box"? How
impractical, if it does not. :-)
You're right though, about users thinking that their OS is the only
"true" OS. Religion is the opiate of the masses. :-)
VAXman-
>when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
>an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
>much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
>cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
>Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
>could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
>other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
>Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
>the most part, broke it.)
I've setup mail using IMAP for some Mac client email accounts. No problems
I use WPA here from Linksys WAP and it is working well too.
I'm surprised you are dissing unix.
Bob Koehler
The skills of others aren't VAXman's fault. Personnaly I prefer the
days when I could find those attributes via SDA and change them from
the console via deposit/virtual. But my systems now are likely to be
doing something that will notice a temporary halt. On my 11/780 the
users just thought the system was being a little slow.
Bob Koehler
>
> Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the
> Mac and get a real computer. :-)
>
Generally shares show up as desktop icons. But carefull use of
the terminal utility can get past that.
Bob Koehler
>
> Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the
> big differences between Unix and VMS. :-)
It's not the need to reboot, its the frequency. And we've all
acknowledged UNIX' superiority over Windows in this matter.
So be happy with the scraps we feed you. 8-)
Ron Johnson
> In article <snip>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
> {...snip...}
>> I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB
>> when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
>> an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
>> much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
>> cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
>> Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
>> could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
>> other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
>> Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
>> the most part, broke it.)
>
> I've setup mail using IMAP for some Mac client email accounts. No problems
> I use WPA here from Linksys WAP and it is working well too.
And I set it up for a couple of family members, one using v10.3, the
other using v10.4.
The problem is that Bill says the problem is with WPA-Enterprise,
not with plain old WPA.
> I'm surprised you are dissing unix.
It ain't FreeBSD...
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> In article <5nig92F...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
> {...snip...}
>>I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB
>>when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
>>an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
>>much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
>>cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
>>Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
>>could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
>>other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
>>Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
>>the most part, broke it.)
>
> I've setup mail using IMAP for some Mac client email accounts. No problems
> I use WPA here from Linksys WAP and it is working well too.
Enterprise or PSK?
>
> I'm surprised you are dissing unix.
I'm not. I'm "dissing" the Mac that took functioning Unix and did
everything it could to break it while trying to make people think
it was "their OS" and not really Unix.
VAXman-
>
>
>In article <tn1Ri.2$FE...@newsfe12.lga>,
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>> {...snip...}
>>>I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB
>>>when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
>>>an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
>>>much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
>>>cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
>>>Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
>>>could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
>>>other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
>>>Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
>>>the most part, broke it.)
>>
>> I've setup mail using IMAP for some Mac client email accounts. No problems
>> I use WPA here from Linksys WAP and it is working well too.
>
Tell me of a WAP that has the Enterprise WPA and I will give it a go.
Personally, it's been reported that it is relatively simple to crack
these wireless schemes so I don't use it for much more than streaming
my iTunes to my AirPort Express connected to my Bose Companion 3. If
somebody really wants to crack my wireless, they'll get to listen to
my 128K internet radio stream which is certainly not going to bother
me all that much because they can tune it for free and listen at 56K.
Bill Gunshannon
VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> In article <5njrjgF...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>
>>
>>In article <tn1Ri.2$FE...@newsfe12.lga>,
>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>> In article <5nig92F...@mid.individual.net>, bi...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>> {...snip...}
>>>>I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB
>>>>when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do
>>>>an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty
>>>>much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had
>>>>cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox.
>>>>Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing
>>>>could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some
>>>>other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the
>>>>Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for
>>>>the most part, broke it.)
>>>
>>> I've setup mail using IMAP for some Mac client email accounts. No problems
>>> I use WPA here from Linksys WAP and it is working well too.
>>
>>Enterprise or PSK?
>
> Tell me of a WAP that has the Enterprise WPA and I will give it a go.
We're running WAP54G's here. Or are you going to insist the it has to
be totally inside and provide by the WAP? (Our radius is provided by
Unix and uses the same user file as all of our systems here, Unix,
Wireless, Windows. The only one that would have been out of the picture
would have been the VMS box, if it was still here.
>
> Personally, it's been reported that it is relatively simple to crack
> these wireless schemes so I don't use it for much more than streaming
> my iTunes to my AirPort Express connected to my Bose Companion 3.
WEP takes about 3 minutes. WPA takes longer. Our system changes keys
about every 5 minutes so I doubt it is as insecure as you seem to think.
> If
> somebody really wants to crack my wireless, they'll get to listen to
> my 128K internet radio stream which is certainly not going to bother
> me all that much because they can tune it for free and listen at 56K.
>
bill
Arne Vajhøj
> In article <13h1olv...@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel <mark....@vsm.com.au> writes:
>> Excellent war-horse story.
>>
>> Haven't enjoyed such a good read on c.o.v. in a long time!
>>
>> Congratulations BTW.
>
> I second this (all three statements)!
+1
Arne