OS-9 from 1992: data exchange

[Lars Behrens]

Hi folks,

maybe a kind soul here can help me.

When one formats a floppy on an 1992 OS-9, which file system is that?
We need to get data from an old ESR device into Linux, I hope there will
be a way....

And: Is there a chance to that ancient machine into a lan? One can find
stuff like "arpa" in the config files :-)

Thanks for any hint!

--
Cheerz Lars

[Martin Gregorie]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:56:06 +0200, Lars Behrens wrote:

> When one formats a floppy on an 1992 OS-9, which file system is that?
>

I suspect its RBF format regardless of whether your hardware is 6809 or
68xxx kit. The OS version is likely to be OS-9/68xxx version 2.3 or 2.4
(OSK2.3 or OSK2.4) though I suppose it could still be OS-9 for 6809
(level 1 or 2).

There used to be a LinuxRBF module for OSK2.4 written by Andrew Cannon
(a...@gmx.net). This could read and write RBF disks, but my notes about it
say:

"This module was lost when Geocities closed but Carsten Emde may have
ported it to Kernel 2.6. Both source patches and precompiled modules
were available for a number of different kernel versions in the 2.4
series. Feedback, suggestions etc. are welcome. Install by copying the
rbf.o module to the modules directory, and typing:
insmod rbf
mount -f rbf /dev/sdb /mnt
"

I haven't spoken to Carsten for a long time and don't have a current e-
mail address for him. He used to work for "Computer Experts AG", http://
www.ceag.ch/index.htm so I suggest you ask them if they have his address.

> need to get data from an old ESR device into Linux, I hope there will be
> a way....
>

If LinuxRBF doesn't work and the machine has a serial port, there's
always Kermit, which I use on an almost daily basis to access an OSK2.4
system.

You install a copy of Kermit on each box and use Linux Kermit to log on
to OS-9 over an RS-232 line just as you might with minicom or a terminal.
For file transfers you use Kermit to log on to OS-9 and start the Kermit
on OS-9 in server mode, then exit from the interactive session and issue
file transfer commands from the Linux end. When done, you restart the
interactive session and shut down the OS-9 Kermit.

Kermit is available from http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck80.html
There are ports for both Linux and OS-9 available there. Typically you
download and compile a source archive on each system. Use the ck9197.zip
archive for OSK2.4. If you're using OSK2.3 or OS-9 level 1 or 2 on a 6809
you'll have to work out which version of Kermit to use on OS-9, but the
Linux Kermit should still talk to any of them. ck9197 is a full-featured
Kermit but the older versions may only implement file transfers, i.e.
they can't be used as a terminal emulator but that should be no problem
for you.

Kermit is dog slow over a default 9600 baud serial line but it gets the
job done: I've moved all the files and directories from a complete RBF
development system (/dd) to form a Linux directory structure. It ran all
night but the transfers were flawless. Kermit can also automatically
convert CR to LF while transferring text files but (obviously) be very
sure that all the files you transfer are text files and/or that you've
correctly specified the extensions of the text files before you try this!

> And: Is there a chance to that ancient machine into a lan? One can find
> stuff like "arpa" in the config files :-)
>

There was a set of networking modules and a TCP/IP stack available for
OSK2.4 but the drivers were hardware-specific: If your box has an
Ethernet socket on the back and you find ftp and/or telnet programs in
/dd/CMDS and/or it boots up with a set of network device descriptors its
worth a try, but if its not installed it may be hard to find suitable
networking hardware and matching drivers. IIRC you had to compile the OSK
box's IP and those of the various gateways, DNS server, etc into the TCP/
IP stack. I've never tried this: networking was promised for my system
but never materialized so I've never tried to use it.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Johann Klasek]

Lars Behrens <spam....@web.de> wrote:
[..]

> When one formats a floppy on an 1992 OS-9, which file system is that?
> We need to get data from an old ESR device into Linux, I hope there will
> be a way....

What kind of OS-9 (Level 1, for 6809 CPU)? The filesystem is
the same filesystem as for all block devices under control of
RBF with parameters from the device descriptor.

2 year ago I saved my backup disk set from OS-9 formatted floppies. See
http://jk.kom.tuwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?OS-9DiskRead It took an old
Adaptec controller with an old enough floppy controller chip to read the
single density tracks ...

> And: Is there a chance to that ancient machine into a lan? One can find
> stuff like "arpa" in the config files :-)

AFAIK OS-9 (6809 based, at least Level 1 type) has no notion of LAN,
TCP/IP and stuff like this ... ;) Perhaps someone could correct me, if I
am wrong.

In the past I had several self-written programs for PC a terminal
emulator and an uploader on OS-9 to transfer files through a terminal
session (over a RS232 line). An ESR device in between may be
transparent ...
Let me know if you want access to this stuff.

Johann E. K.

[Lars Behrens]

Martin Gregorie schrieb:

> I haven't spoken to Carsten for a long time and don't have a current e-
> mail address for him. He used to work for "Computer Experts AG", http://
> www.ceag.ch/index.htm so I suggest you ask them if they have his address.

I found something here:
https://www.osadl.org/RBF-File-System.rbf-file-system.0.html
will give that a try.

>> need to get data from an old ESR device into Linux, I hope there will be
>> a way....
>>
> If LinuxRBF doesn't work and the machine has a serial port, there's
> always Kermit, which I use on an almost daily basis to access an OSK2.4
> system.

Ok, as a last resort...

> There was a set of networking modules and a TCP/IP stack available for
> OSK2.4 but the drivers were hardware-specific: If your box has an
> Ethernet socket on the back and you find ftp and/or telnet programs in
> /dd/CMDS and/or it boots up with a set of network device descriptors its
> worth a try, but if its not installed it may be hard to find suitable
> networking hardware and matching drivers. IIRC you had to compile the OSK
> box's IP and those of the various gateways, DNS server, etc into the TCP/
> IP stack. I've never tried this: networking was promised for my system
> but never materialized so I've never tried to use it.

There is network stuff on board, but I didn't manage to get it working.
Will try the floppy solution first.

Thanks for your help, I will give feedback if I found a solution.


--
Cheerz Lars

[Lars Behrens]

Johann Klasek schrieb:

> Let me know if you want access to this stuff.

Thanks for your info and kind offer. Will try the rbf kernel module first.

--
Cheerz Lars

[Johann Klasek]

Lars Behrens <spam....@web.de> wrote:
> Johann Klasek schrieb:
>> Let me know if you want access to this stuff.

This is only for the transfer between PC and OS-9 box.
The given link provides the tools for reading floppies and
extracting from the images you read.

>
> Thanks for your info and kind offer. Will try the rbf kernel module first.

If you have a this module ready to use and transparent file usage is
your goal it may be best way. If you don't want to fiddle around with
kernel module compiling, simply get the binary os9disk (maybe it runs
already on your Linux, compiled on a Fedora 2.6.x kernel) from
os9disk.tar.gz or recompile it taking Makefile and os9disk.c ...

# print filelist to STDOUT from an image ...
./os9disk -l "IMAGEPATH"

# extract all to directory "DISK", transcript on STDOUT ...
# -v verbose, -x extrace all, -d DIR save in dir.
mkdir DISK
./os9disk -v -x -d "DISK" "IMAGEPATH"


Let us know how the story ends ... ;)

JK

[Martin Gregorie]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:36:57 +0200, Lars Behrens wrote:

> Thanks for your help, I will give feedback if I found a solution.
>

That would be appreciated. Thanks for finding the OSADL link.

[Lars Behrens]

Johann Klasek schrieb:

> Let us know how the story ends ... ;)

Fiddled around with the network setup today, and in principle had a
little success. 'arpstat' showed correct values of the surrounding net,
so basically it works. Yay!

But up to now I haven't found a way to setup to the default route.
On later OS-) versions there is 'ipstat -af default $IP'
(https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/comp.os.os9/jZ5TVPNeX9A/z8QnikC2XX4J)
but not on that machine.

Anyways I'm more optimistic now. :)

To be continued...

--
Cheerz, Lars