Visual C++ for Windows
st_wa...@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au
Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
similar to Visual BASIC?
+------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
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| Senior Professional Officer | 506 Lorimer Street |
| Airframes & Engines Division | Fishermens Bend VIC 3207 |
| Tel: +61 3 647 7488 | Melbourne, Australia |
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+------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Jonas Fogelberg
>Subject: Visual C++ for Windows
>From: st_wa...@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au
>Date: 22 Feb 93 09:16:22 +1100
Yes, Microsoft will release its Visual C++ next week here in Sweden (and
in the rest of the world too hopefully). I read a Swedish newspaper article
on this a couple of days ago.
Judging from the article, it seems quite promising. Of course it won't be as
handy as Visual Basic, but it seems a lot more capable and easy to handle
than Borlands C++ environment, and Microsofts current C++ environment for
that matter. It is of course a totally Windows hosted environment, with
compiler, linker, debugger, browser etc. It will allow background compiles,
and for you to graphically associate classes with resources on the screen (
well sort of - the journalist wasn't that good on explaining all the
features).
Well, I don't have time to provide any more details. But the papers, and
internet, will soon be flooded with info on this thing I suppose...
Jonas.
--
Just my own personal humble opinions...
Jonas Fogelberg, UDAC (Uppsala University Computing Centre), Sweden.
EMAIL: jonas.f...@udac.uu.se. PHONE: +46 18187878. FAX: +46 18187770.
Mathew G Eliot
> Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
> similar to Visual BASIC?
Rumor is that MS is working on it, and it'll be called MSC v8.0
Chris Lincoln
ST>Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
ST>similar to Visual BASIC?
(Use your basic heard-it-from-a-guy-who....reader-beware skills here:)
I haven't seen it myself. I had heard some marketing type from
MS say that is like VB. I was extremely skeptical of that comment.
But someone on CIS said that they saw VC++ at the UK launch and
said that it was very much like VB, and was much faster than C7.
I am beginning to get interested.
---
. SLMR 2.0 .
Tom Tanida
Actually, it'll be called MS Visual C++ 1.0, and it's debuting
this week. It's *very* impressive, although not quite to the level
of Visual Basic. There is a sneak preview of it in the March 1993
Windows Tech Journal (which I haven't seen yet), a "First Look" in
the Feb 22 PC Week, which says it's ships this week, and there's
info from people who have seen demos on the MSLANG forum on Compuserve.
It sounds like a winner (provided MS prices it at $130 or so :-) ).
Kim-Kiat Tan
>In article <1m96rh...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> mem...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Mathew G Eliot) writes:
>
>Actually, it'll be called MS Visual C++ 1.0, and it's debuting
>this week. It's *very* impressive, although not quite to the level
>of Visual Basic. There is a sneak preview of it in the March 1993
>Windows Tech Journal (which I haven't seen yet), a "First Look" in
>the Feb 22 PC Week, which says it's ships this week, and there's
>
>tan...@esosun.css.gov
>
does it produce 32 bits instructions and will it compile program to
be run under dos (not dos window under win 3) ?
Tommy Petersson
It seems to be in that ballpark (<$200) for the standard edition, and
$300-$400 for the professional edition.
: -Tom
: tan...@esosun.css.gov
--
=============================================================================
Tommy Petersson to...@enea.se Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================
Tom Haapanen
> Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
> similar to Visual BASIC?
Here is Microsoft's press release from yesterday's announcement (gleaned
from Compu$erve):
[ \tom haapanen "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ to...@wes.on.ca "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft Launches Visual C++
New Integrated Windows-hosted Development System Speeds
Development of C++ Applications for Windows
SANTA CLARA, Calif. Feb. 23, 1993 Microsoft Corporation
today launched a new Microsoft Visual C++ development system for
the Microsoft Windows operating system, a tightly integrated
visual development system that streamlines the development of C++
applications for Windows. Scheduled for shipment on March 1,
Visual C++ comes in both standard and professional editions. The
standard edition replaces the Microsoft QuickC development system
for Windows, and the professional edition succeeds Microsoft
C/C++ version 7.0.
Microsoft Visual C++ is a highly integrated tool set that is
completely Windows hosted and optimized to boost programmer
productivity throughout the entire development cycle. It is the
first C++ product designed to help make the process of learning
and adopting the C++ programming language much easier for
programmers using Windows, while providing all the resources and
power required by the most advanced C++ programmers. "Microsoft
Visual C++ is the shortest path to developing professional C++
applications for the Windows operating system," said Jim
McCarthy, director of marketing and user education for the
development tools group at Microsoft. "With this product,
Microsoft makes C++ programming accessible to more programmers
than ever before and demonstrates Microsoft's commitment to
providing programmers with next-generation tools that accelerate
the development of advanced Windows-based applications."
Visual C++ features the popular wizard technology found in
several of Microsoft's other products, including the Microsoft
Access database management system and Microsoft Excel. Two
unique programming wizards AppWizard and ClassWizard act like
programmers' assistants by giving developers a jump start in
creating a Windows-based application. AppWizard automates the
first steps of using an application framework, making it easy to
get started developing an application. Using a visually oriented
application like the Microsoft Visual Basic programming system,
the new AppStudio in Visual C++ lets programmers graphically
create an application's user interface, while the ClassWizard
connects these user interface elements to C++ code.
Another key feature introduced by Visual C++ is version 2.0
of the Microsoft Foundation Class library, an application
framework for creating Windows-based applications. Building on
and fully compatible with Microsoft Foundation Class 1.0,
version 2.0 provides a robust set of high-level, reusable objects
that provide a rich set of pre-built functionality, such as print
preview. Microsoft Foundation Class 2.0 provides this abundant
functionality without adding speed or size overhead to the final
code.
"In addition to great programming tools, we are committed to
providing the best developer support possible," said McCarthy.
"This includes outstanding supporting products and support
networks, as well as a comprehensive ISV program that encourages
the development of third-party components and tools that provide
added value to the Visual C++ toolset."
The Visual C++ Development System
Visual C++ provides a completely new set of visual, Windows-
hosted tools for editing, resource building, resource to class
mapping, browsing and debugging. The tight integration of these
tools lets programmers navigate quickly through the entire
development cycle as well as perform tasks such as editing,
building or debugging code concurrently.
The Visual C++ development system includes the following new
features:
Visual WorkBench
AppStudio
AppWizard
ClassWizard
Microsoft Foundation Class Library version 2.0
Visual WorkBench
Visual WorkBench is the new Windows-hosted development
environment. Using Visual WorkBench, programmers can edit,
build, debug and browse C or C++ code from a single integrated
Windows-based environment. Its toolbar provides one-click access
to frequently used operations. Visual WorkBench offers seamless
access to AppWizard for skeleton application creation, AppStudio
for creation and management of application resources and
ClassWizard for connecting resources to code. Visual C++
uniquely offers an integrated Windows-hosted debugger. For
example, this integration enables developers to set breakpoints
in the editor while debugging.
AppStudio
AppStudio uses a completely graphical approach to user
interface design, resource editing and Visual Basic control
manipulation. AppStudio is a full-featured resource editor that
lets programmers create and edit all the standard Windows-based
resources, including menus, icons, bitmaps, dialogs, string
tables, accelerators and binary data. Programmers can use
AppStudio to install the Visual Basic custom controls within the
AppStudio environment, which enables programmers to leverage pre-
built functionality provided by more than one hundred custom
controls available from third-party developers or Microsoft.
Programmers can edit multiple resources concurrently.
AppStudio supports a wide range of drag-and-drop operations
between resources that are being edited. Property sheets let
programmers enter exact values for an object's properties, such
as button style, so that properties for all user interface
elements can be set very quickly.
AppWizard
AppWizard automates the first steps in using the application
framework, creating a full set of skeleton application source
code files. With only a few clicks of the mouse, it creates a
working skeleton application that contains a wide range of
Windows-based functionality. AppWizard is an indispensable tool
for getting started with the new Microsoft Foundation Class 2.0
features such as toolbars, context-sensitive help, OLE support,
printing and print preview. AppWizard creates all the project
files necessary to build the application immediately.
ClassWizard
ClassWizard is the first tool of its kind and helps
developers with many of the administrative details of C++
programming in the Windows environment while enabling them to
have full control over every line of their source code.
ClassWizard automates the process of connecting user interface
controls, such as dialog buttons, to the application code that
handles them.
Microsoft Foundation Class Library 2.0
Microsoft Foundation Class Library 2.0 builds on, and is
completely compatible with, the previous version that is
generally recognized as the leading C++ API for Windows. Version
2.0 contains an extensive set of classes that encapsulate most of
the basic functionality of Windows while providing higher-level
classes to simplify programming. These classes, coupled with the
internal mechanisms that implement the classes, are called an
application framework.
The Microsoft Foundation Classes greatly simplify and speed
development by offering programmers a standard architecture and
set of high-level objects. By using these objects, programmers
can quickly create professional applications for Windows that
contain pre-built application behavior, saving a considerable
amount of development time. For example, print preview alone
consists of several thousand lines of code.
Major new classes and capabilities added to Microsoft
Foundation Class 2.0 include printing and print preview,
documents and views, toolbar and status bar classes, form and
edit views, support for Visual Basic custom controls, scrolling
and split-pane windows, OLE classes, dialog data exchange and
validation (DDX/DDV) and context-sensitive help.
Microsoft Foundation Class 2.0 source code is designed to be
compiler independent, so that Microsoft Foundation Class 2.0
applications can be compiled using other C++ compilers. In
addition, applications written with Microsoft Foundation Classes
are easily ported to the Windows NT operating system.
Still the Smallest and Fastest Executables
Visual C++ uses Microsoft fourth generation C/C++ compiler
technology to achieve the smallest and fastest executable code.
New optimization features in Visual C++ include 386 code
optimization and Smart Linking to further reduce the size of
executables. Programmers can now merely click on a menu item to
obtain the best possible speed or size optimization.
Professional and Standard Editions
Two versions of Microsoft Visual C++ for Windows are
available: Microsoft Visual C++ Standard Edition and Microsoft
Visual C++ Professional Edition.
Recommended for experienced programmers of Windows and
C/C++, Microsoft Visual C++, Professional Edition contains all
the resources and tools C and C++ programmers need to create full-
featured Windows- and MS-DOS operating system-based applications.
The Professional Edition includes the Visual WorkBench,
AppStudio, AppWizard, ClassWizard, Windows-based applications
development, optimizing C and C++ compilers, MS-DOS-based
application targeting, CodeView for MS-DOS and Windows, Source
Profiler for Windows and MS-DOS, Microsoft Foundation Class 2.0
and the essential components of the Windows 3.1 SDK. In
addition, Visual C++ is backwardly compatible with applications
developed in Microsoft C/C++ version 7.0. Because the
Professional Edition includes the optimizing compiler, it is the
appropriate choice for applications where speed or size
optimizations are crucial.
The Standard Edition is ideal for part-time programmers or
those who are either new to C++, or those creating smaller
applications and tools for the Windows operating system. It is
an ideal upgrade to C++ programming for users of Microsoft QuickC
development system for Windows.
Product Pricing, Availability and Visual Tools Suite
Both the Standard and Professional Editions of the Microsoft
Visual C++ development system version 1.0 for Windows are
scheduled to be available March 1. The suggested retail price
for the Standard Edition is $199 and $499 for the Professional
Edition. Users of Microsoft C/C++ version 7.0 can upgrade to the
Professional Edition for $139 and programmers using other
compilers can upgrade for $199. Users who acquired a license for
QuickC for Windows can upgrade to the Standard Edition for $79
and users of other compilers can upgrade for $99. The
Professional Edition comes on either CD-ROM or 3.5-inch disks,
while the Standard Edition only comes on 3.5-inch disks.
For only $399, Microsoft is also offering an entire suite of
Visual Tools that include the Standard Editions of both Visual
Basic 2.0 ($199 value) and Visual C++ ($199 value), as well as
the new Visual Control Pack ($149 value). The controls contained
in the Visual Control Pack are identical to those in the
Professional Edition of Visual Basic. This suite of development
tools is an excellent value for those wanting to explore the
power of Windows-based visual programming.
Products and Services Supporting Visual C++
Microsoft offers a wide range of product support services
for Visual C++, including Microsoft forums on CompuServe,
download services, Microsoft FastTips (FAX or phone recording) a
dedicated support number and several fee-based support services.
For product support numbers and more information, call Microsoft
developer services at (800) 227-4679, extension 11700.
System Requirements
System requirements for Microsoft Visual C++ for Windows
include MS-DOS 5 or higher, Microsoft Windows 3.1, an 80386 or
higher processor, 4MB of available RAM (8MB recommended), 30MB
available hard disk storage (to install the full configuration of
the Professional Edition 50MB is required) and a VGA (or higher
resolution) adapter and monitor.
Founded in 1975, Microsoft (NASDAQ "MSFT") is the worldwide
leader in software for personal computers. The company offers a
wide range of products and services for business and personal
use, each designed with the mission of making it easier and more
enjoyable for people to take advantage of the full power of
personal computing every day.
#########
Microsoft, QuickC, MS-DOS and CodeView are registered trademarks
and Visual C++, Windows, Microsoft Access, Visual Basic and
Windows NT are trademarks of Microsoft Corporation.
CompuServe is a registered trademark of CompuServe, Inc.
Prices listed are U.S. suggested retail prices. Reseller prices
may vary.
Robert L. Holder @ignite
>In article <1m96rh...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> mem...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Mathew G Eliot) writes:
>>
>Microsoft is *done* with it (at least version 1.00), and it is called
>Microsoft Visual C++ 1.0. It was just formally announced today.
What will be the availability of Visual C++ for Windows NT? Or at
least components of it like MFC 2.0.
Scott P Evernden
>
>What will be the availability of Visual C++ for Windows NT? Or at
>least components of it like MFC 2.0.
PA says 3rd quarter '93
-scott
----
Technical Consultant GrayMatter Software Holliston MA 508 429 7867
s...@world.std.com sc...@opl.com 73116...@compuserve.com
.... User interface and application development technology and tools ....
Scott P Evernden
>From: chris....@travel.com
>
>
>ST>Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
>
> MS say that is like VB. I was extremely skeptical of that comment.
> But someone on CIS said that they saw VC++ at the UK launch and
> said that it was very much like VB, and was much faster than C7.
> I am beginning to get interested.
I would say it isn't really much like VB at all, actually.
App Wizard builds you an application framework according to a few switches
you set. (want MDI/SDI?, Help/Ole/VBControl support?, etc) Immediately
buildable/runnable. You enhance with dialogs built thru AppStudio
(the .rc editor). Then ClassWizard lets you add event handling code
(member functions) for the controls/commands, etc. This is the part that
is maybe most like VB. Also App Studio understands v1.0 VBX controls
(nice) and provides similar editing of properties, etc.
Mostly, it's a much better IDE for MSC8. No escaping needing to understand
C++ / documents / views / runtime classes / etcetera. Windows-hosted
debugging, integrated class browser w/ context stack, bookmarks, and
other goodies, big and small, many borrowed from other places. (There's
even the OpenLook pushpin in dialogs!)
MFC 2.0 feels and weighs twice as big as v1- lots of new stuff- looks very
nice and thick and gooey. Plenty to learn, and I still am...
Fong Whye Koon
>In article <2394.21...@travel.com> chris....@travel.com (Chris Lincoln) writes:
>
>I would say it isn't really much like VB at all, actually.
>
>App Wizard builds you an application framework according to a few switches
>you set. (want MDI/SDI?, Help/Ole/VBControl support?, etc) Immediately
>buildable/runnable. You enhance with dialogs built thru AppStudio
>(the .rc editor). Then ClassWizard lets you add event handling code
>(member functions) for the controls/commands, etc. This is the part that
>is maybe most like VB. Also App Studio understands v1.0 VBX controls
>(nice) and provides similar editing of properties, etc.
>
>Mostly, it's a much better IDE for MSC8. No escaping needing to understand
>C++ / documents / views / runtime classes / etcetera. Windows-hosted
>debugging, integrated class browser w/ context stack, bookmarks, and
>other goodies, big and small, many borrowed from other places. (There's
>even the OpenLook pushpin in dialogs!)
>
>MFC 2.0 feels and weighs twice as big as v1- lots of new stuff- looks very
>nice and thick and gooey. Plenty to learn, and I still am...
>
>-scott
Does Visual C++ 1.0 rings the death knell for BC++/Application Frameworks?
Isn't Borland going to announce something to put up a fight against Visual
C++ for their leading share of the Windows C++ programming market. Borland
seems to have slowed to a halt in announcing any new stuff for C++. When it
was BC++ 2.0, it seemed that BC++3.0 & 3.1 were pushed out in record time,
less than a year of each other. Is it because one of their big bosses in
C++ development defected to Symantec and is giving them a headache now?
Just wondering and hoping that Borland will offer a counter-attack visual
programming tool soon to ward off the onslaught by Visual C++ which looks
set to become a bigger seller than VB or BC++.
Regards
Fong
(I am using BC++/OWL, but I am really tempted to make the switch if
Borland doesn't catch up with Visual C++/MFC 2.0 . It's high time they
bring in a VB-like tool for BC++.)
Vance M. Gloster
Isn't Borland going to announce something to put up a fight against Visual
C++ for their leading share of the Windows C++ programming market. Borland
My information is that Borland is in the process of licensing MFC, and
will be including it in a future C++ product. Microsoft intends the
MFC to be a porting layer that will allow reasonably painless porting
to NT (now) and the Mac (later) and Unix/X (maybe sometime). If
Borland and the other companies use the MFC (Zortech has already
licensed it) it will be better for programmers (except those who have
already written BC++/AF code) because their code should port easier
from one compiler or machine to another. Borland should still be able
to give Microsoft a run for their money in compilers and programming
environments without AF.
-Vance Gloster
glo...@inference.com
Mikael Rydstrom
Me too...
Anybody know-heard-think that there will be an app. that
can convert VB -> VC++, or at least convert the
forms to VC++ recources?
-Mikael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mryd...@finabo.abo.fi M.Sc. Mikael Rydstrom
mryd...@aton.abo.fi Abo Akademi University
Fax : +358 21 65 4791 Dept of Chemical Engineering
Phone: +358 21 65 4553 Process Design Laboratory
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?"
- Marvin the paranoid android
glenn_sills
>In article <1993Feb23.0...@enea.se> to...@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) writes:
>>tan...@seismo.CSS.GOV (Tom Tanida) writes:
>>: It sounds like a winner (provided MS prices it at $130 or so :-) ).
>
>It seems to be in that ballpark (<$200) for the standard edition, and
>$300-$400 for the professional edition.
>
If you already have C7, it's $149.00 including shipping.
Chris Lincoln
SPE>>ST>Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
SPE>>
SPE>> I haven't seen it myself. I had heard some marketing type from
SPE>> MS say that is like VB. I was extremely skeptical of that comment.
SPE>> But someone on CIS said that they saw VC++ at the UK launch and
SPE>> said that it was very much like VB, and was much faster than C7.
SPE>> I am beginning to get interested.
SPE>I would say it isn't really much like VB at all, actually.
Those were my comments prior to hearing the press release. I
have been using VB/Dos and MSC 7.0, and was quite skeptical that
they could make VC++ like VB. What they delivered is pretty
much what I expected. Ordered mine yesterday. I can hardly
wait to try out MFC 2.0. I spent the better part of an
afternoon putting post-it tabs in my MFC 1.0 manual, now all
that will be for naught.
SPE>App Wizard builds you an application framework according to a few switches
[txtdel]
SPE>(nice) and provides similar editing of properties, etc.
Someone on CIS that participated in the beta stated that he was
able to put together something in 6 hours that took him 2-3 weeks
by long hand. We came close, (real close), to purchasing Windowsmaker
or somesuch. But they are expensive and offered more than we need.
This wizard stuff sounds like it fills the bill.
SPE>Mostly, it's a much better IDE for MSC8. No escaping needing to understand
SPE>C++ / documents / views / runtime classes / etcetera. Windows-hosted
SPE>debugging, integrated class browser w/ context stack, bookmarks, and
SPE>other goodies, big and small, many borrowed from other places. (There's
SPE>even the OpenLook pushpin in dialogs!)
I take it you have gotten a chance to use it? How similar in
functionality is the debugger to CV? Does it remember breakpoints
and watch vars between sessions like CV?
---
. SLMR 2.0 . if (live || memorex) break;
Stephen Schimpf
I believe it is $139.00 for the professional version.
Stephen
Chris Lincoln
VMG> >Does Visual C++ 1.0 rings the death knell for BC++/Application Frameworks
VMG> >Isn't Borland going to announce something to put up a fight against Visua
VMG> >C++ for their leading share of the Windows C++ programming market. Borlan
Nah. BC++ is too good of a compiler/development environment.
(From the mouth of a BIG MSC/MFC fan). It would be wise for Borland
to support MFC, though. OWL is a good framework, but that DVDT stuff
was a huge mistake. (it is nice to use, but we abandoned OWL because
of the portability issue) Now if OWL and TVision had been more
compatible, things would be different. I'm glad we switched to
MFC, now. The more I use it, the more I like it. I understand that
MFC 2.0 is supposed to provide more abstraction, ala OWL. It is
the "thin layer" of MFC 1.0 that the press discounted that I really
like. It has made learning the WIN API much easier for me.
VMG>from one compiler or machine to another. Borland should still be able
VMG>to give Microsoft a run for their money in compilers and programming
VMG>environments without AF.
Agreed. Borland has proven to be a very good "catch-up" company.
I'm sure they will come out with an environment that will improve
on the "visual programming" platform. We will all benefit from this
leap-frogging.
My $.02 worth
Simon Tuffs
|>
|> Does Visual C++ 1.0 rings the death knell for BC++/Application Frameworks?
|> Isn't Borland going to announce something to put up a fight against Visual
|> C++ for their leading share of the Windows C++ programming market. Borland
|> seems to have slowed to a halt in announcing any new stuff for C++. When it
|> was BC++ 2.0, it seemed that BC++3.0 & 3.1 were pushed out in record time,
|> less than a year of each other. Is it because one of their big bosses in
|> C++ development defected to Symantec and is giving them a headache now?
|> Just wondering and hoping that Borland will offer a counter-attack visual
|> programming tool soon to ward off the onslaught by Visual C++ which looks
|> set to become a bigger seller than VB or BC++.
|>
I saw a demo of VC++ at the Software Dev. Conf. yesterday. It is really slick, and
the demo makes it look easy to do what I spent the last few months learning how to
do using BC++3.1 and App Frameworks/OWL.
I wanted a copy right then, and was seriously disappointed not to win the free
drawing :)
However, this morning I thought about things in the cold light of day. A lot of what
VC++ offers is really for the non-Windows programmer who knows a bit of C++, and wants to
create a new application from the ground up. Once you get past that stage, the power in VC++
comes from the canned .vbx things you can bring into your application which implement stuff
like a multi-media player (the demo I saw). Slick, but no trick, it's called code
reuse in the C++ forum, and while it's a good thing, your can do the same without VC++.
I suppose you can use VB to build your .vbx's, but are these C++ modules?
I am still going to be using BC++ v3.1 for the forseeable future, since there is one heck of
a lot of code in an application for which no visual paradigm exists, and I like the Borland
IDE. Actually, once you know about Dialogs as windows, you can use the IDE and Resource
Workshop as a pretty good substitute for VC++, for all but the initial application
structure. If you need to quickly gen up an application structure, use Protogen (no MDI
support but that's easy to add).
Speaking as a C++ programmer learning windows with OWL, and tempted initially by the fruits
of Microsoft's tree.
Simon.
No Flames Please, my asbestos undergarments are at the cleaners.
Trevor Jenkins
>
> In article <52...@seismo.CSS.GOV> tan...@seismo.CSS.GOV (Tom Tanida) writes:
> >In article <1m96rh...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> mem...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Mathew G> Eliot) writes:
> >
> >Actually, it'll be called MS Visual C++ 1.0, and it's debuting
> does it produce 32 bits instructions and will it compile program to
> be run under dos (not dos window under win 3) ?
ALL the marketing blurb for Visual C++ concentrates upon the Windows
portion of the (impending) product. However, I too am concerned with the
FUNCTIONALITY of the compiler. Does it implement all those good things
fromthe ANSI standard that C/C++ v7.0 doesn't have: Templates, exception
handling... or must we still rely upon using a utility to hack us up a
version that provide similar features?
Regards, Trevor.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Jenkins Re: "deemed!"
134 Frankland Rd, Croxley Green, RICKMANSWORTH, WD3 3AU, England
email: t...@apusapus.demon.co.uk phone: +44 (0)923 776436 radio: G6AJG
"We need bigger and better books", Jimmy Tingle (Damned in the USA)
Bob Willer
: > Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
: > similar to Visual BASIC?
: Rumor is that MS is working on it, and it'll be called MSC v8.0
I received in the mail a catalog from a company called The Connection,
in it there is an advertisement for Visual C++. There are two versions;
The standard version, and the Professional version.
They are taking orders for this application. I ordered mine direct from
Microsoft. It is currently in manufacturing, and the earliest the disk
version will be available (or so I was told) is mid-March. CD-ROM : March 22.
IT IS ABOUT TIME MICROSOFT CAME OUT WITH A GUI FOR THEIR C/C++ COMPILER !!!
Bob Willer
-Hating the 'Workbench'
Scott P Evernden
>
>However, this morning I thought about things in the cold light of day. A lot of what
>VC++ offers is really for the non-Windows programmer who knows a bit of C++, and wants to
>create a new application from the ground up. Once you get past that stage, the power in VC++
>comes from the canned .vbx things you can bring into your application which implement stuff
>like a multi-media player (the demo I saw). Slick, but no trick, it's called code
>reuse in the C++ forum, and while it's a good thing, your can do the same without VC++.
>I suppose you can use VB to build your .vbx's, but are these C++ modules?
>
A big thing that VC++ does is to make it instantaneously easy to add new
message handling functions. ClassWizard just does it for you - you write
the function body - that's it. W/ Borland, you gotta edit the header, add
the DDVT stuff, find the source file, copy the declaration, edit it,
remember what the l/wparams are, discover what base class wants to see this
message so you don't defwndproc past them, etc. etc. VC++ is just a whole
lot easier/faster to use.
Also the trick of using .vbx control is no little thing. Think about how
impossible it is to add .vbx support to BCW and you'll understand- the .rc
mechanism is *not* powerful enough by itself to describe intelligent
controls, and Borland's (incompatible) CTLDATA stuff is nice, but is no
where near enough to do the job.
vbx controls are *not* built using vb. They are a new much more powerful
way of implementing installable/re-usable controls. Itemize your properties
events and types, and the rest is taken care of for you- no more grotty
style dialog work, etc. etc. With VC++ I'd expect to see an *explosion* of
.vbx controls- immediately useable to MSVC folks and not available to
Borlandites; not yet.
MSVC is, in my opinion, a real cut above BCW. Borland will need to do more
than repackage existing tools into a "Visual Edition" to catch-up...
(I am still a borland fan, too, tho)
Greg Demichillie
>least components of it like MFC 2.0.
Sorry for the slowness of this response and maybe somebody has already
answered this for you but,
Visual C++ for NT will be available in the third quarter of this year.
MFC 2 will be included in that product. I'm not certain if MFC 2 will
be on the next pre-release of NT so I can't answer that one for you.
-Greg
--
Greg DeMichillie Microsoft AFX
gre...@microsoft.com All opinions are mine, not Microsoft's
Greg Demichillie
>
> Anybody know-heard-think that there will be an app. that
> can convert VB -> VC++, or at least convert the
> forms to VC++ recources?
>
There isn't any automatic conversion of VB forms, however MFC 2 does allow
you to use VBX controls in your C++ app and AppStudio provides the design
time environment (in addition to being a regular resource editor).
So you can create dialog and forms and drop VBX controls into them.
Hope that helps.
Scott P Evernden
>SPE>Mostly, it's a much better IDE for MSC8.
>
> functionality is the debugger to CV? Does it remember breakpoints
> and watch vars between sessions like CV?
The beta version I have been evaluating appears to represent the Standard
version- meaning that Codeview etc (part of the Pro version) is not
included, so I can't compare it to V7s. The IDE's builtin debugger
seems plenty capable tho, and has been good enough for my purposes.
I just checked and it looks like it does not remember breakpoints/watch
vars between sessions...
Joe Morris
>Mathew G Eliot (mem...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU) wrote:
>: > Does anyone know anything about a Visual C++ for Windows,
>: > similar to Visual BASIC?
>I received in the mail a catalog from a company called The Connection,
>in it there is an advertisement for Visual C++. There are two versions;
>The standard version, and the Professional version.
And did you notice that the order form from The Connection (the little
post card where they expect you to write your Visa card number for
anyone who wants to can copy it) exchanged the "upgrade from MSC7"
and "competitive upgrade" prices?
The prices in the catalog are:
Visual C++ Professional
Outright $289 + $24 s/h
Upgrade from MSC7 $122 + $23
Competitive upgrade $185 + $24
Visual C++ Standard
Outright $119 + $12 s/h
Upgrade from QCW $73 + $11
Competitive upgrade $89 + $12
Prices are the same for magnetic and CD/ROM media. Don't ask me why the
shipping and handling prices vary according to what type of upgrade you're
purchasing.
(I never heard of "The Connection" before; a catalog appeared in my mailbox
this morning...)
Joe Morris / MITRE
Scott P Evernden
>I just checked and it looks like it does not remember breakpoints/watch
>vars between sessions...
>
>-scott
I just checked again, and I take it back- the VC++ builtin debugger
*does* remember these things. I dunno how I screwed this up, sorry...
Stefan Olson
>a lot of code in an application for which no visual paradigm exists, and I like the Borland
>IDE. Actually, once you know about Dialogs as windows, you can use the IDE and Resource
What isn't as good about the VC++ IDE (This is not a flame, just a question,
as I haven't seen it...)
Thanks,
Stefan
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan Olson Mail: ste...@olson.acme.gen.nz
Kindness in giving creates love.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Smith
> But someone on CIS said that they saw VC++ at the UK launch and
> said that it was very much like VB, and was much faster than C7.
> I am beginning to get interested.
I saw it at the Windows show, and from a short demo, it looked
like a typical v1.0 Microsoft product - some of it done very
nicely, some of it not so nice, and some of it really ugly,
with no obvious reasons other than that they wanted to get it
out the door.
The resource editing facilities looked really good, well inte-
grated and very polished. The compiler part of it was another
story -- it seems as if all they've done is (thinly) bolt something
over the old compiler. For instance, when the project was being
made, it just opened a scrolling text window and spit out reams of
messages like you'd get doing make from a DOS prompt. There was
no clean looking "in progress" dialog box a la Borland. When it
was done, the dialog that came up said something like "process
terminated normally (0xFF)", which strikes me as rather pointlessly
obscure compared to, say, "Done".
The demo we saw also looked astonishingly slow. He was building
a tiny program and had lots of time for salespeak, including the
claim that the new compiler is "one hundred times faster", in
which case I'm very relieved to have been using BC++ v3.1 for
the last year.
I was also a bit disappointed that they weren't using the ctl3d look.
Dialog backgrounds were grey, but check boxes and radio buttons
were still the old flat style. It's particularly odd given that
it looked like the resource editor supported the new style for
building dialog boxes. One thing I hate about Borland is their
alternate-standard controls, so I'd like to see the ctl3d stuff
bury them as soon as possible.
I suspect this may be another wait-for-v2 Micrsoft offering, but
I hope Borland get their act together on supporting MFC and ctl3d
as soon as possible, or a lot of people may switch.
---- Mark Smith ---- Canon Research Europe ---- sm...@canon.co.uk ----
Scott P Evernden
>In article <1993Feb25....@abo.fi> MRYD...@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mikael Rydstrom) writes:
>> can convert VB -> VC++, or at least convert the
>> forms to VC++ recources?
>
>here for some inventive third party.
There's at least 2 PD tools around that can convert VB Forms to .rc
resources (sans control properties, I would think). Converting from
VB to VC++ is not very much simpler than converting VB to any C/C++
implementation (VC++ gives you some of the VBControl support). You'd
still to do what VBControls don't do (control arrays, drag-n-drop,
Form HCTLs, pf_noRuntimeW probs, V2.0 .vbx controls) and, of course,
you'd need toss in a BASIC-to-C++ translator. Not really a weekend job...
Peter Hildebrandt
> can convert VB -> VC++, or at least convert the
> forms to VC++ recources?
There's nothing included with it, and my guess is that there's an opportunity
here for some inventive third party.
--
//--------------------------------------------------------------\\
|| _--_ Peter Hildebrandt ||
||- // -- \\ ---------------------------------------------------||
|| [] || [] Software Consulting With A Twist ||
Greg Demichillie
>When it
>was done, the dialog that came up said something like "process
>terminated normally (0xFF)", which strikes me as rather pointlessly
>obscure compared to, say, "Done".
>
Once small correction. The "process terminated normally" message
comes up when the application you are debugging terminates, not when
a compilation terminates. It is there so you can tell if your program
just exited or if it crashed in some fashion.
Yoram Jibli
what is it with you people - does everything have to conform to Microsoft's standards???
I LOVE Borlands Custom controls, as well as OWL. I was using OWL from it's first release, and I love DVDTs, and I realy don't give a hoot that it only works under borland's compilers. I hope that the programms that I wrote in OWL will stay standard and that Borland not take a whole new tangent or move to MFC altogether.
ps. NO more flack about OWL, please - thanX.
Mark Smith
> sm...@canon.co.uk (Mark Smith) writes:
> >When it
> >was done, the dialog that came up said something like "process
>
> Once small correction. The "process terminated normally" message
> comes up when the application you are debugging terminates, not when
> a compilation terminates. It is there so you can tell if your program
> just exited or if it crashed in some fashion.
Oops. Never trust reviews from the shoulder surfing fraternity.
My apologies. Btw, does VC++ come with the full SDK manual set?
My BC++ 3.1 upgrade didn't include new manuals, and you could
probably get me to pay #150 just for the manuals considering the
price of books in the UK.
---- Mark Smith --------------------- msm...@discreet.demon.co.uk ----
David M. Kolesar
>>$300-$400 for the professional edition.
>>
>
> If you already have C7, it's $149.00 including shipping.
Programmers Paradise has it for $129.00.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
David M. Kolesar Internet: d...@icf.hrb.com
HRB Systems
State College Pa.
814-238-0153
________________________________________________________________________________
Luis J Olivieri
Guide" the update is $122.00. If you add the shipping ($24.00) from The
Connection, it gets close to the $149.00 from MS. I ordered from MS thinking
that I'm going to get it sooner... I hope! and I will pay aroun $157.00
Luis
--
Luis J. Olivieri Lu...@osu.edu or olivi...@osu.edu
Agronomy Department Tel: (614)265-6781
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH 43210
Ahmad Alavi
|> > Anybody know-heard-think that there will be an app. that
|> > can convert VB -> VC++, or at least convert the
|> > forms to VC++ recources?
|>
With Visual C++ release, Borland has lost its IDE advantage
(at least for time being). Another question is how big a job
is it to convert an application written using Object Windows to
use Foundation Classes.
Ahmad
Chris Lincoln
MS>My apologies. Btw, does VC++ come with the full SDK manual set?
The non-upgrade version does, the upgrade version does not.
MS>My BC++ 3.1 upgrade didn't include new manuals, and you could
MS>probably get me to pay #150 just for the manuals considering the
MS>price of books in the UK.
I ordered the full documentation set and wish I had gotten only
the essentials separately. MS Press publishes all of the individual
manuals and sells them separately.
Chris Almy
Yes, It is here. Free upgrade from MSC 7.0
Should be in stores this week.
Steven Sinofsky
>With Visual C++ release, Borland has lost its IDE advantage
>(at least for time being). Another question is how big a job
>is it to convert an application written using Object Windows to
>use Foundation Classes.
>
>Ahmad
>
>aaa...@ingr.com
>
If it is a matter of just getting your code to compile there
are many simularities between the low-level Windows API classes
in MFC 1.0 and Borland OWL. In fact, MFC 1.0 and OWL pretty much have
a 1-1 class mapping for most things. OWL does not have any
C++ support for GDI so you can either just use the C code you
wrote or convert it to use MFC's GDI classes.
Then if you wish to take advantage of the high level abstractions
and architecture in MFC 2.0, such as commands, printing, print
preview, VBX controls, dialog data exchange/validation, help support,
doc/view architecture, etc, you will need to restructure
your application (and delete a lot of code you wrote in the process!)
--
Steven Sinofsky
ste...@microsoft.com
Disclaimer: I don't speak for Microsoft, honest.
Steven Sinofsky
>
>
> Yes, It is here. Free upgrade from MSC 7.0
> Should be in stores this week.
>
>
>
Correction. The upgrade from C/C++ 7.0 is not free. Visual C++ is a
new product in its own right, though it is the successor to C/C++ 7.0.
See your dealer for pricing and other information. It is in stores now.
Greg Judkins
>In article <42...@hpwala.wal.hp.com> chr...@hpwarr.UUCP ( Chris Almy) writes:
>>
>>
>> Yes, It is here. Free upgrade from MSC 7.0
>> Should be in stores this week.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Correction. The upgrade from C/C++ 7.0 is not free. Visual C++ is a
>new product in its own right, though it is the successor to C/C++ 7.0.
>
purchased c/c++ 7.0 after January 15, 1993.
>See your dealer for pricing and other information. It is in stores now.
>--
>Steven Sinofsky
>ste...@microsoft.com
>Disclaimer: I don't speak for Microsoft, honest.
Greg
Todd_...@transarc.com
Visual C++ Compiler Ver.. Steven Sinofsky@microsof (476)
> In article <42...@hpwala.wal.hp.com> chr...@hpwarr.UUCP ( Chris Almy) writes:
> >
> >
> > Yes, It is here. Free upgrade from MSC 7.0
> > Should be in stores this week.
> >
> >
> >
> Correction. The upgrade from C/C++ 7.0 is not free. Visual C++ is a
> new product in its own right, though it is the successor to C/C++ 7.0.
The upgrade from C/C++ 7.0 is free IF you purchased C/C++ 7.0 since
January 15 (purchased new or upgraded).
--
Todd Blumer (blu...@transarc.com)
Transarc Corp. Technical Staff
Pittsburgh, PA (412)338-6925
Scott Strool
|> is it to convert an application written using Object Windows to
|> use Foundation Classes.
Jeff Meyer
>I was also a bit disappointed that they weren't using the ctl3d look.
>Dialog backgrounds were grey, but check boxes and radio buttons
>were still the old flat style.
Hmmm... I've heard that you can use Visual Basic .vbx controls with VisC++,
and VB 2.0 Professional Edition contains the 3D controls. I'd guess, then,
that you can use the VB ones; I don't think they're listed in either the
Professional or Standard editions, though.
However, the upgrade offer I saw also included an offer for the Visual
COntrol Pack, which appears to be all the "extra" controls which come with
the VB Professional edition. (For those in the know, please correct me if
I'm wrong).
Selections from TOP 10 LEAST POPULAR MTV CONTESTS:
9. Do time for James Brown
7. A date with Cher (must be under 16)
6. Win Michael Jackson's old nose
5. Actually get to be one of the New Monkees -- not for
a day, but forever!
2. Peter, Paul, and you!
1. Try on Meatloaf's pants
-- Late Night with David Letterman
----
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: mori...@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
**>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
I need this parade like a hole in the head - JFK
professional edition. This was not cheap (especially in the UK where you
pay in pounds what you pay in $ in the US). Will there be an opportunity
to upgrade to VC++ as I will already have the help compiler/ Custom control
dev kit/ whole assorted ranges of .VBX's etc. If not then I fail to
see why go VC++ as my value for money is not so crash hot.
I am on the border line of whether to go Borland or Microsoft but fail to
see why I should pay through the nose for a development environment that
is not as good as Borlands (from everything I hear). I would be prepared
to get 'what I pay for' if I don't have to pay twice for everything.
It is just a point that interests me and peeves me if the truth be known.
Jon
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Jon Machtynger (jo...@ingres.com) |
|Ingres Technology Centre. Wharfedale Rd, |
|Winnersh, Wokingham. Berks UK. (0734)-496525 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ahhh Brisbane, people actually get paid to work there... in the sun with |
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Mark Smith
> However, the upgrade offer I saw also included an offer for the Visual
> COntrol Pack, which appears to be all the "extra" controls which come with
> the VB Professional edition. (For those in the know, please correct me if
> I'm wrong).
Yes, it looks like the ctl3d controls are in there. I assume that
you can still use ctl3d.dll instead if you don't want to buy the
Control Pack. Given that the ctl3d technical article from Microsoft
talks about "standardiz[ing] the 3-D look" and says that "future
versions of Windows will implement all controls in 3-D", it's a
bit of a drag that they've made them an optional extra cost item
along with the pie charts and animated buttons.
Scott P Evernden
>mori...@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes:
>> However, the upgrade offer I saw also included an offer for the Visual
>> COntrol Pack, which appears to be all the "extra" controls which come with
>> the VB Professional edition. (For those in the know, please correct me if
>> I'm wrong).
>
>Yes, it looks like the ctl3d controls are in there. I assume that
These have that "Sheridan Systems" 3D look, not exactly the
same as the ctl3d appearance.
>you can still use ctl3d.dll instead if you don't want to buy the
>Control Pack. Given that the ctl3d technical article from Microsoft
No, sorry. ctl3d.dll doesn't work with Visual C++ if you
are using MFC. They broke it. Something about everyone
trying to grab the CBT hook. I believe there's some effort
being made to correct this.
Ahmad Alavi
Very big job. I am talking about a program taht started about a year
ago with four programmers (new to Windows at that time) and uses
OWL heavily with several classes drived from OWL classes. It also
uses templates. I think the main problems are message handling,
streams, and templates. Since I do not have experience with MS VC++
except for two weeks PLAYING with it, I have no idea what it takes
to convert.
Ahmad Alavi
aaa...@ingr.com
Keith Rowe
own VB 2.0. The competitive upgrade is the full VC++ Professional
Edition with all manuals for $199. I'm not sure that this deal is
available in the UK, but I think so.
I hope this helps,
Keith Rowe
Program Manager, VC++
kei...@microsoft.com
Jojie R. T.
On a not too related question: I was over our bookstore this morning and
they had this new spring catalog of academically priced software. I was
actually there to ask them to find out the price of VB 2.0 for me but
browsing throught the catalog, I saw, labeled as a new item, "Visual Basic
2.0 with Professional Tool." What is "Professional Tool" exactly and how
is this different from VB 2.0 Standard & VB 2.0 Professional? Something
in between perhaps?
George
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