Microsoft brand is in deep decline
Ignoramus17370
Microsoft's brand power has been in sharp decline over the past four
years, an indication the company is losing credibility and mindshare
with U.S. business users, according to a recent study by market
research firm CoreBrand.
ADVERTISEMENT
According to the CoreBrand Power 100 2007 study, which polled about
12,000 U.S. business decision-makers, Microsoft dropped from number 12
in the ranking of the most powerful U.S. company brands in 2004 to
number 59 last year. In 1996, the company ranked number 1 in brand
power among 1,200 top companies in about 50 industries, said James
Gregory, CEO of CoreBrand.
CoreBrand measures brand power using four criteria. It first rates the
familiarity of a company's brand. Once a company has a certain level
of familiarity, they are ranked according to three "attributes of
favorability": overall reputation, perception of management and
investment potential, Gregory said. While Microsoft's brand is still
eminently recognizable, the company is declining in all three
favorable attributes, he said.
Gregory said that a decline in and of itself is not indicative that a
company is losing its mindshare or reputation among
customers. However, what's significant in Microsoft's case is that the
decline has been consistent over a number of years, and has plunged
dramatically in a brief time.
"When you see something decline with increasing velocity, it's a
concern," he said.
Among its peers in the category of Computers, Peripherals and Computer
Software, Microsoft is second to IBM in brand power, with Toshiba a
close third, Gregory said. If Microsoft's downward trend continues,
Toshiba could pass it in brand power next year, he said.
Gregory could only speculate as to why Microsoft's reputation has been
declining, since his firm does not ask people that specific
question. He said the "underwhelming" response to Windows Vista might
be one reason, and Apple's clever "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" advertising
campaign -- which paints Windows in an unfavorable light -- may be
another.
IBM suffered a "much faster and more severe" decline in brand power in
the early 1990s, Gregory said, and it took them 10 years to rebuild
the brand's reputation. To stage a similar turnaround, Microsoft must
have a clearer vision of the direction in which the company is headed
and put forth leaders that people can trust to articulate that vision,
he said.
Microsoft, which has been diversifying its business beyond packaged
software in the past several years, has struggled to articulate how
the many facets of its business -- software, entertainment and online
among them -- show a cohesive business plan. The company has been
trying to clarify at least one of those strategies -- its online
advertising business -- with new services and a bid to purchase
Yahoo. However, Gregory suggested it may take more than that to raise
the perception of its brand.
measekite
Ignoramus17370 wrote:snip
> Microsoft's brand power has been in sharp decline over the past four
> years, an indication the company is losing credibility and mindshare
snip
I am not sure they are loosing business but I do think they may be
loosing some credibility. I think that is Linux becomes fully
supported by the hardware mfg and there becomes a standard installation
routine that all of the packagers accept that Microsoft will become
very aware quickly that their present way of doing business will have to
change or they will be hurt in the pocketbook.
RonB
> According to the CoreBrand Power 100 2007 study, which polled about
> 12,000 U.S. business decision-makers, Microsoft dropped from number 12
> in the ranking of the most powerful U.S. company brands in 2004 to
> number 59 last year. In 1996, the company ranked number 1 in brand
> power among 1,200 top companies in about 50 industries, said James
> Gregory, CEO of CoreBrand.
Microsoft can't afford not to worry about Linux.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
RonB
> I am not sure they are loosing business but I do think they may be
> loosing some credibility. I think that is Linux becomes fully
> supported by the hardware mfg and there becomes a standard installation
> routine that all of the packagers accept that Microsoft will become
> very aware quickly that their present way of doing business will have to
> change or they will be hurt in the pocketbook.
It doesn't appear that Microsoft is capable of changing direction very
quickly any longer. Too big and bloated. Think Titantic -- if it wasn't so
big and unwieldy it probably could have avoided the iceberg.
Christopher Hunter
> I am not sure they are losing business but I do think they may be
> losing some credibility.
They are losing both - "market penetration" of M$ in (for example) China is
effectively zero. China is possibly the /biggest/ market on the planet.
Now that Dell, HP, Asus and many other manufacturers have told M$ that
they're not going to comply with the illegally restrictive marketing
methods that M$ have hitherto employed.
The biggest selling laptop on the planet right now (the Asus EEE) runs
Xandros Linux. This was a deliberate decision - partly because it made the
product much cheaper without the M$ licence, and partly because the Xandros
OS just works better on that hardware.
M$ have lost /any/ credibility they ever had - probably with the release of
Windoze 2000 - when those of us "in the know" realised that it was the same
old 1991 kernel with new eyecandy added on top. XP was found to be the
same thing yet again, and Vista just took XP and added DRM.
Vista has been shown to be totally unsuitable for any serious business use
(there goes 60% of their market) and has the same old vulnerabilities,
instabilities and outrageous price.
Even M$ admit that Vista's a dog, and have brought forward the release
of "Windows 7" by two years. /This/ version will be largely "bought in",
as M$ no longer employ any useful programmers - their staff are great at
meetings, but incapable of doing any real, useful work. M$ are having to
buy in the kernel, HAL, I/O and much of the rest of the core of the
OS. /Many/ companies have refused to assist M$ at /any/ price!
C.
Roy Schestowitz
They will face the fact that software gradually becomes a commodity. It's
already the case with 'Web databases' and CMSs, for instance.
Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | GPL - Global Programmer's Law
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 2 2008-03-19 11:51 last=
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
NoStop
> IBM suffered a "much faster and more severe" decline in brand power in
> the early 1990s, Gregory said, and it took them 10 years to rebuild
> the brand's reputation. To stage a similar turnaround, Microsoft must
> have a clearer vision of the direction in which the company is headed
> and put forth leaders that people can trust to articulate that vision,
> he said.
>
What's wrong with Monkey Boy as the leader? Wouldn't you buy something from
this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4hyATkQ74
Cheers.
--
The world can't afford the rich.
Q: What OS is built for lusers?
A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?
Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6
Wes Groleau
> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
M$ will never catch the iPod.
--
Wes Groleau
There are more Baroque musicians than any other kind.
Moshe Goldfarb
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>
> M$ will never catch the iPod.
And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
about?
The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
Where are they hiding?
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
nospam
> I think that is Linux becomes fully
> supported by the hardware mfg and there becomes a standard
another daydreamer...
Ignoramus10476
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>
>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>
> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
> about?
I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
like a USB drive to the host computer.
My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
spyware.
When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
types.
i
Snit
LbadnQUXqZHcR3Pa...@giganews.com on 3/29/08 5:09 PM:
> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve
>>>> with
>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>
>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>
>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>> about?
>
> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
> like a USB drive to the host computer.
>
> My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
> spyware.
Spyware? What spyware?
> When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
> birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
> at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
> types.
>
> i
>
>> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
>>
>> Where are they hiding?
>>
--
Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers
Hadron
> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>
>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>
>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>> about?
>
> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
use it.
> like a USB drive to the host computer.
Aha. So basic connectivity.
>
> My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
> spyware.
I see ..... *nurse meds please*.
>
> When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
> birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
> at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
> types.
>
> i
>
>> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
>>
>> Where are they hiding?
>>
--
<donnerjack> Nothing says "I enjoy living with you" like the gift of
3rd degree burns...
<Mephron> except, of course, turning his bed into a trebuchet.
<Ladegard> That much effort must mean some sort of affection.
Rick
> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to
>>>> evolve with something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>
>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>
>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>> about?
>
> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie player.
> To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch movies. It works
> great and does not require any software, it looks like a USB drive to
> the host computer.
>
> My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
> spyware.
Actually, you don't have to instal any Apple software to use an iPod
under Linux.
>
> When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
> birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
> at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
> types.
>
> i
>
>> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
>>
>> Where are they hiding?
>>
--
Rick
The Natural Philosopher
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to
>> evolve with
>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>
> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>
Colin Wilson
> Who wants to?
Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.
Christopher Hunter
> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
> about?
I've got two of them right here in front of me. Made by Commodore. Get a
clue!
C.
Ignoramus18579
> Ignoramus10476 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>>
>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>>
>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>>> about?
>>
>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
>
> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
> use it.
Why, I saw it working.
>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
>
> Aha. So basic connectivity.
Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
i
The Natural Philosopher
well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
versus a stable application platform for professional users.
I,,e, 'home entertainment centers' 'portable entertainment centres' and
'machines that actually allow 3rd party apps to run, and do so stably
and reliably'
Neither Microsoft nor apple are really concentrating on the latter, are
they?
Baho Utot
> Colin Wilson wrote:
>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>> Who wants to?
>>
>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.
>
> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
> versus a stable application platform for professional users.
>
It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy
High Plains Thumper
One thing that is little spoken of is through its OS efforts,
Microsoft killed innovation. I won't say early on it was
intentionally done, because I think that would be reading a
little too much into Monday morning quarterbacking.
In the early 1980's, there was a booming home computer market.
Business PC's were expensive, toy makers and electronic
manufacturers concentrated on bringing computing power to the
consumer.
What one could buy for $4K in 1980's currency could buy for
1/10th that, a home computer. Yes, they were slower, loaded from
cassette tape for mass storage.
However, people were learning how to program in BASIC, which was
their native operating system. Much of that was through
Microsoft BASIC, although some had other variants.
Even small businesses were using home computing software to make
things more efficient, because limited computing and data bases
made sense over manual methods.
Trolls rant about the amateurishness of some Linux applications.
There was a thriving effort called freeware and shareware with
home computers, which spilled into MS-DOS.
The creation of the universal business PC called IBM PC clone, an
Intel model was an open, not proprietary hardware model. With
the creation of Microsoft MS-DOS at a reasonable price back then
allowed one for a fraction of the cost of an IBM genuine article,
now have business class computing power.
That open hardware standard did alot to propel computing power
into novice hands. There continued a lot of grass roots
developments using GWBASIC. First iterations of Windows, the 3.x
versions still retained GWBASIC because it was a part of the
MS-DOS operating system.
Reasonable cost software tools through 3rd parties like Borland,
allowed software development to continue.
There were computing clubs and cottage software industries abounding.
Then something strange happened with Windows 95 and later
variants. The very tools that allowed grass roots software
developments evaporated. BASIC and debugging tools evaporated
from the OS. This basically killed individual software effort
and took software development out of the hands of the user.
It was in essence, the dummy down of the populace. Now, software
development tools were only for the professional at a substantial
cost.
Over time what has evolved is yes, we have professionally written
applications and games that mimic the best simulators, which were
once limited to aerospace companies and flight schools that could
afford them.
However, what was lost were the learning experiences into the
operating system (spell proprietary - "no see, no touch"). The
home user has become an applications rookie and games player.
I am happy to report that Linux and other efforts such as Free
BSD bring back the tools to enable grass roots developments once
again.
Whereas we had the open hardware model, the IBM PC clone, now we
have the open software model.
Linux has available to it all the software tools to make it an
invariable learning laboratory, as well as an efficient platform
for launching professionally written applications AND despite of
troll rants, professionally written games.
OpenOffice and its commercial offering StarOffice ARE
professionally written. I was impressed that it was able to open
a password protected Microsoft office Word file I had.
This is why it is important that efforts such as OLPC remain as a
Linux OS software effort. Children again have opportunities as
they had with the home computers 28 years ago, to explore the
operating system, write their own applications and learn about
data bases.
That is more valuable than learning to use proprietary applications.
The world once again needs to have available to it the software
tools to develop younger minds prior to college, to learn
software development.
That encompasses more that just Visual BASIC. May the rants begin.
--
HPT
The Natural Philosopher
applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
stuff stayed with windows.
Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
party applications writers to port their applications to a real
operating system.
RedHat tried, but its not been a conspicuous success.
And to an extent the open source nature of Linux, with the whole shebang
being a rapidly moving target of a dozen different distros, makes it far
far harder for application developers to nail their colours exactly on
the one mast. There are more than one to nail it too. Then add in all
the window managers..and you start to see the problems.
Windos great strength was never that it was any good technically. It
never was, but it did one thing right: It set a standard. If you got
your code working with windows it would work pretty much n any PC for
the next few years. In a more or less predictable way.
I don't know what the answer to that is, or should be, but that is the
*problem*, for sure.
The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
words underneath :-
'Runs on all Linux distros'
will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.
Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
API, that would happen.
Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.
Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
cross platform interoperability with broswers.
But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.
Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
evironment forever.
High Plains Thumper
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Colin Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>>>
>>>> Who wants to?
>>>
>>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.
>>
>> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the
>> toy market versus a stable application platform for
>> professional users.
>
> It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows
> (what ever).
Do you mean the large fork and spoon in the dining room? :-)
That effort is bangsit compared to Linux, which is bangsit
opposite. Linux adds flavour, like Bagoong Alamang. It is the
Ampalaya, the Patis of life. :-)
--
HPT
Hadron
> On 2008-03-30, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus10476 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>>>
>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>>>
>>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>>>> about?
>>>
>>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
>>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
>>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
>>
>> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
>> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
>> use it.
>
> Why, I saw it working.
So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
against the market leader?
>
>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
>>
>> Aha. So basic connectivity.
>
> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
>
> i
Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
Google it up.
And thanks for confirming my suspicions.
--
<doogie> Thinking is dangerous. It leads to ideas.
-- Seen on #Debian
Baho Utot
[putolin]
> Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
> code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
> another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
> cross platform interoperability with broswers.
>
Yea sure,
Why doesn't the current crop of games run on < WinXp ?
Why doesn't Solidworks work on Vista?
> But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
> I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.
Wine works well for me
>
> Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
> evironment forever.
Moshe Goldfarb
I don't particularly like iTunes or the software included with the iPod, at
least the Windows versions of it and from my last experience a year ago
which could possibly be dated.
However, nothing can touch the iPod for support, third party add ons, etc.
It's not even close.
The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
Some have come close, none have topped it.
I have a Creative Zen Vision M.
Specs wise it blew away the iPods that were out at the time.
Better screen rez.
Larger disk.
FM radio.
Better Video.
Very nice interface which is as good as the iPod, but different.
You name it and the Zen was better and it cost a LOT less as well.
At the time....
FWIW the Zen turned out to be a huge POS.
It has known firmware bugs, lockups etc.
I should have known because Creative is a suck ass company but I got fooled
because a lot of people have these things and it cost less.
Christopher Hunter
>> It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
>>
> Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
> applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
> stuff stayed with windows.
Not around here! Audio recording, video editing, and various animation
programmes /cannot/ be "run" on Windoze. The film, advertising and TV
companies /all/ run Linux machines for these purposes.
> Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
> that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
> party applications writers to port their applications to a real
> operating system.
The only applications not fully covered by Linux these days are games.
> RedHat tried, but its not been a conspicuous success.
>
> And to an extent the open source nature of Linux, with the whole shebang
> being a rapidly moving target of a dozen different distros, makes it far
> far harder for application developers to nail their colours exactly on
> the one mast. There are more than one to nail it too. Then add in all
> the window managers..and you start to see the problems.
It's less of a problem than you might imagine.
> Windos great strength was never that it was any good technically. It
> never was, but it did one thing right: It set a standard. If you got
> your code working with windows it would work pretty much n any PC for
> the next few years. In a more or less predictable way.
That might have been true in the past, but "Vista" deliberately set out to
break compatibility with some products, and the forthcoming Windoze 7 will
deliberately have *no* backward compatibility whatsoever. The poor fools
who've "invested" in MS Office and all the rest of their rubbish-ware will
have to buy all their applications all over again...
> I don't know what the answer to that is, or should be, but that is the
> *problem*, for sure.
Not really.
> The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
> interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
> words underneath :-
>
> 'Runs on all Linux distros'
>
> will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.
It's getting there, but you won't have to /buy/ the application - just
download the .deb or .rpm as appropriate and automatically install it.
> Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
> and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
> API, that would happen.
No. You've missed the point. There are (probably) three significant
competing Linux desktops (xfce, Gnome and kde). Kde and Gnome take great
pains to make applications run on either desktop. There's little to choose
between the big two.
> Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.
Sometimes. Security, stability and reliability "sell" Linux in the web
server market!
> Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
> code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
> another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
> cross platform interoperability with broswers.
>
> But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
Why not? It's quite fun to "run" Windoze XP in a window on my desktop. I
tried "Internet Explorer" and saw how quickly it was compromised...
> I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.
Why. Most of them are very poorly written, and there are (often) better OS
equivalents available.
> Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
> evironment forever.
They already are gone in many companies. The home users just need to catch
up...
C.
Hadron
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
>>>
>> Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
>> applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
>> stuff stayed with windows.
>
> Not around here! Audio recording, video editing, and various animation
> programmes /cannot/ be "run" on Windoze. The film, advertising and TV
> companies /all/ run Linux machines for these purposes.
>
>> Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
>> that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
>> party applications writers to port their applications to a real
>> operating system.
>
> The only applications not fully covered by Linux these days are games.
Enough of your lies and posturing already.
Wes Groleau
> The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
> Some have come close, none have topped it.
Depends on what you want.
Apple apparently has a patent on the "multi-touch"
and as usual, they do wonders on the user interface.
But, iPhone doesn't have GPS and its algorithm for trying
to simulate it with WiFi and cell tower triangulation
often gets VERY wrong answers.
And its cell access is GSM only (or do I have that backward?)
And every time someone hacks the lock that prevents using
other than Apple's chosen carrier, Apple offers a firmware
"upgrade" that (BTW) makes the hack not work.
Neo 1973 had GPS, higher-res display, and a few other things
iPhone didn't, at a lower price. Plus all the software was
open source, AND they released CAD files for ALL of the hardware.
But it had almost NO memory by today's standards.
http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html
The Helio Ocean was kind of cool, too.
Depends on what you want.
--
Wes Groleau
I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with
the release of MS-DOS.
-- Larry DeLuca
Wes Groleau
> The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
> interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
> words underneath :-
>
> 'Runs on all Linux distros'
>
> will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.
Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had ever needed an IDT for AM.
But everything I have needed or thought I needed for my Mac OS
(with a couple of exceptions), I've downloaded from some Linux
site and installed. Only two such items failed to compile the
first try and both were trivial fixes. One was to add a NULL
parameter to two function calls (or I could have rolled Berkeley
DB back in time from 4.5 to 3.2). The other only needed me to
install something else I had incorrectly assumed I already had.
> Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
> and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
> API, that would happen.
>
> Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.
>
> Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
> code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
> another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
> cross platform interoperability with broswers.
And Cocoa on Mac OS X is another.
But a LOT of stuff 'runs on all Linux distros'
Ignoramus18579
> Ignoramus18579 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.18579.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2008-03-30, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Ignoramus10476 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb <brick....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
>>>>>
>>>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
>>>>> about?
>>>>
>>>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
>>>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
>>>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
>>>
>>> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
>>> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
>>> use it.
>>
>> Why, I saw it working.
>
> So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
> in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
> against the market leader?
All I could see, is that it works well. My wife uses it for a few
hours every day.
I did not claim that it works better than any other device. You made
that up. It is definitely very computer friendly with its usb storage
functionality. That means that you can go to any friend and copy their
pirated videos without asking them to install any spyware.
i
>>
>>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
>>>
>>> Aha. So basic connectivity.
>>
>> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
>>
>> i
>
> Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
>
> Google it up.
http://people.csail.mit.edu/adonovan/hacks/ipod.html
I may have missed the latest developments with this ipod.
i
mimus
> But a LOT of stuff 'runs on all Linux distros'
Like everything in /bin and /sbin, and /usr/bin and /usr/sbin, and
/usr/share . . . .
Isn't strange how variety and user choice is a fault, to the Microsoft
flacks?
And, yes, they even attack the open-source nature of most of the Linux
software, as another fault . . . .
At least we know now how American politics is made possible.
--
Kill. Kill! KILL!
< comp.os.linux.misc
Hadron
You said it works "very well". To make that judgement you need to know
what you are talking about. By your own words you admit you dont.
If you said "it works well enough from what I can see" fair enough - but
in the context of iPods you are saying this thing (I never heard of it)
works "very well". Well thats a bit of a comparison IMO.
>
> I did not claim that it works better than any other device. You made
> that up. It is definitely very computer friendly with its usb storage
> functionality. That means that you can go to any friend and copy their
> pirated videos without asking them to install any spyware.
>
> i
What spyware? What are you talking about? You can use the iPods as
storage devices too you know.
>
>>>
>>>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
>>>>
>>>> Aha. So basic connectivity.
>>>
>>> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
>>
>> Google it up.
>
> http://people.csail.mit.edu/adonovan/hacks/ipod.html
>
> I may have missed the latest developments with this ipod.
>
> i
You might, with all due respect, simply not know what you are talking
about. You have been able to store things on iPods since before the dawn
of time.....
Ignoramus18579
> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>> The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
>> Some have come close, none have topped it.
>
> Depends on what you want.
>
> Apple apparently has a patent on the "multi-touch"
> and as usual, they do wonders on the user interface.
>
> But, iPhone doesn't have GPS and its algorithm for trying
> to simulate it with WiFi and cell tower triangulation
> often gets VERY wrong answers.
>
> And its cell access is GSM only (or do I have that backward?)
>
> And every time someone hacks the lock that prevents using
> other than Apple's chosen carrier, Apple offers a firmware
> "upgrade" that (BTW) makes the hack not work.
>
> Neo 1973 had GPS, higher-res display, and a few other things
> iPhone didn't, at a lower price. Plus all the software was
> open source, AND they released CAD files for ALL of the hardware.
> But it had almost NO memory by today's standards.
>
> http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html
It is still in beta, though. Has been so in a while.
i
Ignoramus18579
> about. You have been able to store things on iPods since before the dawn
> of time.....
So let's say that I insert that iPod into a Linux computer and it sees
it as a USB device. If I copy MP3s on it, will I be able to play them?
i
Roy Schestowitz
>> > M$ will never catch the iPod.
>> Who wants to?
>
> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.
The iPod is a bridge for Apple to enter mobile device, which are becoming
increasingly dominant. It's worth emphasising that due to Vista's bloat,
Microsoft has recently begun create a Windows Mobile derivative for larger
devices. It all just shows you how far behind Microsoft has fallen wrt to
Symbian, Linux and even Apple (the iPhone is just the beginning).
--
~~ Best of wishes
Microsoft loves competition.
"I’m thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux. ...
they should do a delicate dance"
--Joachim Kempin, Microsoft OEM Chief
Cork Soaker
Then they discover *nix and what it can do. Having used a simple OS for so
long, they feel confident to broaden their horizons, but they're not usually
ready. But still, the seed is there.
kmbfhaya
"Ignoramus17370" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17370.invalid> wrote in message
news:d5qdnWOAYaiNUXDa...@giganews.com...
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20080327/tc_macworld/studyseesmicrosoftbrandinsharpdecline
>
> Microsoft's brand power has been in sharp decline over the past four
> years, an indication the company is losing credibility and mindshare
> with U.S. business users, according to a recent study by market
> research firm CoreBrand.
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> According to the CoreBrand Power 100 2007 study, which polled about
> 12,000 U.S. business decision-makers, Microsoft dropped from number 12
> in the ranking of the most powerful U.S. company brands in 2004 to
> number 59 last year. In 1996, the company ranked number 1 in brand
> power among 1,200 top companies in about 50 industries, said James
> Gregory, CEO of CoreBrand.
>
> CoreBrand measures brand power using four criteria. It first rates the
> familiarity of a company's brand. Once a company has a certain level
> of familiarity, they are ranked according to three "attributes of
> favorability": overall reputation, perception of management and
> investment potential, Gregory said. While Microsoft's brand is still
> eminently recognizable, the company is declining in all three
> favorable attributes, he said.
>
> Gregory said that a decline in and of itself is not indicative that a
> company is losing its mindshare or reputation among
> customers. However, what's significant in Microsoft's case is that the
> decline has been consistent over a number of years, and has plunged
> dramatically in a brief time.
>
> "When you see something decline with increasing velocity, it's a
> concern," he said.
>
> Among its peers in the category of Computers, Peripherals and Computer
> Software, Microsoft is second to IBM in brand power, with Toshiba a
> close third, Gregory said. If Microsoft's downward trend continues,
> Toshiba could pass it in brand power next year, he said.
>
> Gregory could only speculate as to why Microsoft's reputation has been
> declining, since his firm does not ask people that specific
> question. He said the "underwhelming" response to Windows Vista might
> be one reason, and Apple's clever "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" advertising
> campaign -- which paints Windows in an unfavorable light -- may be
> another.
>
> IBM suffered a "much faster and more severe" decline in brand power in
> the early 1990s, Gregory said, and it took them 10 years to rebuild
> the brand's reputation. To stage a similar turnaround, Microsoft must
> have a clearer vision of the direction in which the company is headed
> and put forth leaders that people can trust to articulate that vision,
> he said.
>
> Microsoft, which has been diversifying its business beyond packaged
> software in the past several years, has struggled to articulate how
> the many facets of its business -- software, entertainment and online
> among them -- show a cohesive business plan. The company has been
> trying to clarify at least one of those strategies -- its online
> advertising business -- with new services and a bid to purchase
> Yahoo. However, Gregory suggested it may take more than that to raise
> the perception of its brand.
Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping .67
percent market share. Try thinking for yourself for once you ignoramus
NoStop
>
> Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping
> .67 percent market share.
Yes Mr. Goebbels - repeat a lie often enough and people will start to
believe it.
I guess we've found your home page ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
Cheers.
--
The world can't afford the rich.
Q: What OS is built for lusers?
A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?
Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6
The Natural Philosopher
Linux has a zero market share, since its never sold.
notbob
> Linux has a zero market share, since its never sold.
Not true. I pay for my Slackware. I don't have to, but I do. Same for
other distros. RH and Suse and Slackware are usually on the shelf at Fry's
and other retailers. I don't mind paying for an OS I like and support. I
won't pay for Windoze, though. Don't need to. Don't need to steal or
pirate it, either. There's so many official copies floating around through
vendors, it's not difficult to get a legit copy free. But, who want's it?
Not I.
nb
Hadron
Well there's another lie.
Nearly all the major distributors sell support licenses for a start.
--
< asuffield> a workstation is anything you can stick on somebodies desk
and con them into using
-- in #debian-devel
chrisv
>Linux has a zero market share, since its never sold.
Idiot.
*plonk*
NoStop
Have you ever bought one? I highly doubt it. I doubt anyone around here has
bought a support license. We tend to roll our own.
Cheers.
--
The world can't afford the rich.
alt.os.linux.ubuntu - where the lunatic Hadron is a "Linux advocate"
The Ghost In The Machine
<nos...@nospam.com>
wrote
on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:03:53 -0700
<fsqud...@news1.newsguy.com>:
> kmbfhaya wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping
>> .67 percent market share.
>
> Yes Mr. Goebbels - repeat a lie often enough and people will start to
> believe it.
>
> I guess we've found your home page ...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
>
> Cheers.
>
I'll admit to wonder if we can ever get accurate numbers,
but the sad truth is that Linux does not command a really
sizable portion of the desktop market, at least officially.
Of course Linux has pretty much taken over the Unix server
market, though Windows shows signs of viciously fighting
back -- if one can call GoDaddy-type deals "fighting",
as opposed to sleazing into the undergrowth like some sort
of legless reptile.
There's also a lot of dualboots and emulators out there,
not to mention embedded devices, mobiles, and vendors
hawking Linux-based desktops. (Dell is still among them,
though as usual they're being relatively quiet about it.)
And then there's the browser idiocy. HTTP/HTML never
did get its purpose straight (is it stateless? stateful?
secure? insecure?) and reliable identification of the OS
of an incoming HTTP packet request is at best a good guess.
Identification of the server OS from an HTTP server is
also a good guess, especially with a proxy in the middle.
One could easily have a Linux front end with Apache serving
as a proxy for a FreeBSD application server (Java ajpv13),
with a Microsoft C# SOAP-callable affair somewhere in
the mix, and of course a backend database that could be
anything at all. Which OS should Netcraft report?
As for how well Microsoft is doing...Yahoo! is still
reporting them as having $57B/year in raw revenue, $17B
in profits, 79.20% in quarterly earnings growth (compared
to the prior year), $22B in operating cash flow, and $14B
in levered free cash flow. Glowingly good numbers.
But I also remember Atari in the early 80's. It was a
bloody price war -- and Commodore eventually died because
of it.
Could something like Atari's fall from grace and
Commodore's death happen again? Dunno. We'll have to
wait until early or mid May for updates, at least.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
The Ghost In The Machine
<hadro...@googlemail.com>
wrote
on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:23:41 +0200
<fsra7g$ar7$1...@registered.motzarella.org>:
It gets complicated, but "The Natural Philosopher" is
essentially correct: Linux is never sold. It's given
away, with the monetary compensation for such companies
as Red Hat and Novell being used for support licenses.
It just looks an awful lot like other software sales. ;-)
However, this does not translate into zero market share,
which more properly would be "zero desktop share" (since
that's the subarea of interest here) anyway, but the
details get very squirrely as that one disc given away by
RedHat can be installed on as many boxes as one likes, and
the disc duplicated as many times as one likes, although if
any of the boxes not supported by Red Hat has a problem,
Red Hat is not obligated to provide support in any way,
shape, or form, and the disc duplicates should not use
the term "Red Hat" because of trademark infringment -- hence
terms such as "Pink Tie" and "Fedora".
It's further complicated by multiboots and virtual machines.
So how many instances of Linux are out there, really?
We may never know. What we *do* know is RedHat's revenue
or Novell's revenue versus Microsoft's, and that, at least,
is simple enough:
Market Cap Revenue(ttm) Income(ttm)
MSFT $264B $57.90B $16.96B
RHT $3.57B $0.49265B $0.07515B
NOVL $2.20B $0.94504B $0.000582B
White Spirit
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
> about?
> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
> Where are they hiding?
Go to http://www.archos.com
I have the fourth and the fifth generation models. Better than any iPod.
JEDIDIAH
They could still use a bit of work on the interfaces but they
have the basic functionality down. The key value of an Archos is
that you don't need to convert your content. You don't have to
transform your video into something that will be acknowledged by
the "indian agents" on the Apple "reservation".
Video could shake things up. There's much more diversity in
terms of already existing content and it's much more time
consuming to convert.
--
Metallica is not worth the ruination of someone |||
who has pirated their music / | \
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
Moog
> On 2008-03-31, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> wrote:
>
>> Linux has a zero market share, since its never sold.
>
> Not true. I pay for my Slackware. I don't have to, but I do. Same for
> other distros. RH and Suse and Slackware are usually on the shelf at Fry's
> and other retailers.
Being from the Uk, and having no digeridoo about who the hell "fry's
and other retailers" are...
How the hell to the developers of the distro gain from these twats
"selling" something that is freely available?
Or is it just a case of another business *taking* something and selling
it for profit?
Or is this one of those "shrinkwrap" distro's that charge 30p for the
box and the retailer sells it for £5?
*Kerrching*
--
Moog
"If this is gonna be that kinda party I'm gonna stick my dick in the
mashed potatoes"