The Great Downsizing of comp.os.*
Big-8 Management Board
unmoderated newsgroups all across the BIG8. Because of the magnitude
of the group list the proposal is not crossposted to target groups.
Instead pointers are posted to a few selected groups.
The full text of the proposal is available here:
http://www.big-8.org/wiki/Nan:2011-02-01-rfd-great-downsizing
http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/091abc69fd45436b
Affected groups that might interest you:
comp.os.chorus CHORUS microkernel issues, research and developments.
comp.os.inferno The Inferno network operating system from Lucent.
comp.os.lantastic The LANtastic network operating system.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm MS-Windows communication applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.compatibility.win95 Running DOS&Win3 apps in Win95.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win3x Utility/add-on programs for Win3.x.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.mail Winsock email applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.news Winsock news applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.networking.ras Windows RAS networking.
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy Windows NT advocacy arguments.
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.pre-release Unreleased and beta Windows NT versions.
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.setup.hardware Windows NT hardware setup.
comp.os.ms-windows.pre-release Pre-release/beta versions of Windows.
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.multimedia Multimedia programming.
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.owl OWL-based development for Windows.
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.winhelp WinHelp/Multimedia Viewer development.
comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win3x Setup, hardware, and driver issues in Win3.x.
comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win95 Setup, hardware, and driver issues in Win95.
comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup Setup and Configuration of Windows 95.
comp.os.msdos.mail-news Administering mail & network news systems under MS-DOS.
comp.os.netware.security Netware Security issues.
comp.os.os2.comm Modem/Fax hardware/drivers/apps/utils under OS/2.
comp.os.os2.programmer.oop Programming system objects (SOM, WPS, etc).
comp.os.os2.scitech Real-time, engineering/CAD, sciences, etc.
comp.os.parix Forum for users of the parallel operating system PARIX.
comp.os.xinu The XINU operating system from Purdue (D. Comer).
If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group
news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message,
so simply replying to this post should do the right thing.
--
Sidney Lambe
This is comp.os.linux.misc
Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
Sid
Baron
Neither will I !
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Robert Heller
Near the bottom of the list is 'comp.os.xinu'. XINU is a 'toy'
UNIX-ish operating system and is mostly useful as a system to study if
one is interested in learning just how a *UNIX* flavored kernel works.
Eg. before one 'dives' into the Linux kernel (read: "deep end"), one
can look at xinu (read: "kiddie pool" / "shallow end"). Why all of the
mess windows groups have been 'lumped' with the few others is strange
(to me).
>
> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
And no, I have never owned a system running any flavor of mess-windows.
And never will.
>
> Sid
>
>
>
>
--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Sidney Lambe
> At 6 Feb 2011 20:32:51 +0100 Sidney Lambe
> <ever...@alt.religion.wicca> wrote:
[delete]
>> This is comp.os.linux.misc
>>
>> Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
>
> Near the bottom of the list is 'comp.os.xinu'. XINU is a 'toy'
> UNIX-ish operating system and is mostly useful as a system
> to study if one is interested in learning just how a *UNIX*
> flavored kernel works. Eg. before one 'dives' into the Linux
> kernel (read: "deep end"), one can look at xinu (read: "kiddie
> pool" / "shallow end"). Why all of the mess windows groups have
> been 'lumped' with the few others is strange (to me).
That does sound useful. I gather it's better for this purpose
than minix....??
>> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
>
> And no, I have never owned a system running any flavor of
> And nmess-windows. Never will.
<raised fist> Power to the Penguin! :-)
Me too. Never even touched one except at the library or the U.
Most of the time I can boot up DSL or Puppy on a box with
Windows on it if I have to use it.
The necessary purification ritual following even such mild
exposure to the Evil One is tedious, but necessary :-/
Sid
Robert Heller
>
> On comp.os.linux.misc, Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > At 6 Feb 2011 20:32:51 +0100 Sidney Lambe
> > <ever...@alt.religion.wicca> wrote:
>
> [delete]
>
> >> This is comp.os.linux.misc
> >>
> >> Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
> >
> > Near the bottom of the list is 'comp.os.xinu'. XINU is a 'toy'
> > UNIX-ish operating system and is mostly useful as a system
> > to study if one is interested in learning just how a *UNIX*
> > flavored kernel works. Eg. before one 'dives' into the Linux
> > kernel (read: "deep end"), one can look at xinu (read: "kiddie
> > pool" / "shallow end"). Why all of the mess windows groups have
> > been 'lumped' with the few others is strange (to me).
>
> That does sound useful. I gather it's better for this purpose
> than minix....??
Yes. XINU was designed, in part, as a teaching tool. There is a book:
"Operating System Design: The XINU Approach", by Douglas Comer, ISBN
0-13-637539-1, Prentice-Hall. This book pretty much goes through the
XINU system, line-by-line, explaining what is going on and is a basic
textbook for a course on operating system design.
>
> >> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
> >
> > And no, I have never owned a system running any flavor of
> > And nmess-windows. Never will.
>
> <raised fist> Power to the Penguin! :-)
>
> Me too. Never even touched one except at the library or the U.
> Most of the time I can boot up DSL or Puppy on a box with
> Windows on it if I have to use it.
>
> The necessary purification ritual following even such mild
> exposure to the Evil One is tedious, but necessary :-/
>
> Sid
>
>
--
Grant Edwards
> On comp.os.linux.misc, Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Near the bottom of the list is 'comp.os.xinu'. XINU is a 'toy'
>> UNIX-ish operating system and is mostly useful as a system to study
>> if one is interested in learning just how a *UNIX* flavored kernel
>> works. Eg. before one 'dives' into the Linux kernel (read: "deep
>> end"), one can look at xinu (read: "kiddie pool" / "shallow end").
>> Why all of the mess windows groups have been 'lumped' with the few
>> others is strange (to me).
>
> That does sound useful. I gather it's better for this purpose
> than minix....??
No, it's just a from a book by a different author aimed at the same
target audience. Xinu was written by Doug Comer and presenting in his
OS textbook, and Minix was written by Andrew Tannenbaum and presenting
in his OS textbook. I think Minix was probably the more popular and
more recently updated of the two, but I though Comer's book was
excellent. IIRC Xinu is more of a traditional Unix kernel
architecture as opposed to the micro-kernel approach adopted by recent
versions of Minix.
The Xinu books:
http://www.amazon.com/Operating-System-Design-XINU-Approach/dp/0136375391/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297028954&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Operating-System-Design-Vol-Internetworking/dp/013637414X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297028954&sr=1-2
The Minux book:
Sidney Lambe
Prentice-Hall. A prestigious publisher. I don't think I'm quite
enough of a geek to tackle something like that. I'm still struggling
with shell scripting.
TNX
[delete]
Sid
Sidney Lambe
wrote:
> The Minux book:
Thanks, Grant. Like I told Robert, I'm pretty sure something like
this is over my head. But I might order one of them to curl
up with on a rainy day and blow my mind.
Sid
Chris Davies
> Near the bottom of the list is 'comp.os.xinu'. XINU is a 'toy'
> UNIX-ish operating system and is mostly useful as a system to study if
> one is interested in learning just how a *UNIX* flavored kernel works.
However, before everyone else goes off at a tangent, the referenced
proposal [*] states that all the groups listed fulfill these conditions:
- no moderated groups
- no group names matching *.misc
- zero on-topic, non-crossposted threads in the past 18 months
- on-topic questions that received no on-topic answer do not count
So, if xinu is dead (and I last came across it well over 20 years ago),
then let the newsgroup die, too. If it's not dead then it seems that
according to the criteria stated above that the newsgroup is dead
already. Maybe it's time to let it lie in peace.
Chris
[*] http://www.big-8.org/wiki/Nan:2011-02-01-rfd-great-downsizing)
David Brown
>> comp.os.netware.security Netware Security issues.
>> comp.os.os2.comm Modem/Fax hardware/drivers/apps/utils under OS/2.
>> comp.os.os2.programmer.oop Programming system objects (SOM, WPS, etc).
>> comp.os.os2.scitech Real-time, engineering/CAD, sciences, etc.
>> comp.os.parix Forum for users of the parallel operating system PARIX.
>> comp.os.xinu The XINU operating system from Purdue (D. Comer).
>
>>
>> If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated
>> group news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set
>> on this message, so simply replying to this post should do the
>> right thing.
>>
>> --
>
> This is comp.os.linux.misc
>
> Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
>
> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
>
> Sid
>
I realise that some people prefer knee-jerk responses to actually using
their brains, or their browsers - so I'll explain the obvious logic in
this post.
The BIG8 want to trim a bunch of unused newsgroups. They have made a
list according to some sensible criteria, which can be seen by following
the links provided. They are now making informative posts to various
newsgroups that are within the same hierarchies, targeting the .misc
groups. Rather than listing the complete set of unused newsgroups, they
are very sensibly giving a list of hierarchically-related groups, along
with a link to a post showing the others. Thus in all the
comp.os.*.misc groups they include a list of the comp.os.* groups that
are due for retirement.
Keith Keller
On 2011-02-07, David Brown <david...@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 06/02/11 20:32, Sidney Lambe wrote:
>
> I realise that some people prefer knee-jerk responses to actually using
> their brains, or their browsers - so I'll explain the obvious logic in
> this post.
''Sid'' is a troll, so logic only comes into play when he's trying to
figure out how to get the most responses to his posts.
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Richard Bonner
> On comp.os.linux.misc, Big-8 Management Board <bo...@big-8.org> wrote:
> > There is a proposal currently in news.announce.newgroups to remove 198
> > unmoderated newsgroups all across the BIG8.
(Snip)
> This is comp.os.linux.misc
> Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
> Sid
*** I tend to agree, but some Windows users might find them useful. (-:
I have not looked into this, but suspect that the reason they are being
removed is because they have not seen any posts in `n' time. I agree that
unused groups should be removed as a healthy housekeeping measure.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Richard Bonner
> ...if xinu is dead (and I last came across it well over 20 years ago),
> then let the newsgroup die, too. If it's not dead then it seems that
> according to the criteria stated above that the newsgroup is dead
> already. Maybe it's time to let it lie in peace.
> Chris
*** xinu discussion may not be dead, it may have moved to one or more
Internet forums. Regardless, if the *group* is dead, I'd vote to remove
it.
Sidney Lambe
wrote:
> Sidney Lambe (ever...@alt.religion.wicca) wrote:
>
>> On comp.os.linux.misc, Big-8 Management Board
>> <bo...@big-8.org> wrote:
>>
>> > There is a proposal currently in news.announce.newgroups to
>> > remove 198 unmoderated newsgroups all across the BIG8.
>
> (Snip)
>
>> This is comp.os.linux.misc
>
>> Why the hell would we care about a bunch of Windows groups?
>
>> I wouldn't allow that crap OS on any box I own.
>
>> Sid
>
> *** I tend to agree, but some Windows users might find them
> useful. (-:
Sure. And junkies find needles useful.
>
> I have not looked into this, but suspect that the reason
> they are being removed is because they have not seen any posts
> in `n' time. I agree that unused groups should be removed as a
> healthy housekeeping measure.
>
You are right and I agree.
Sid
Chris Davies
> *** xinu discussion may not be dead, it may have moved to one or more
> Internet forums. Regardless, if the *group* is dead, I'd vote to remove
> it.
My point exactly (even though I didn't actually make it as such).
Chris
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
Express needs to download the entire list of newsgroups in order to start a
new user - I think it should be able to read one newsgroup without
downloading the entire list. THis scares away new users and they never come
back. (I use usenet on unix/tin)
I think USENET needs to market itself better so as to attrach serious (not
flippant) new users.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
The Natural Philosopher
> I think the major detriment to the advance of usenet is the way Outlook
> Express needs to download the entire list of newsgroups in order to start a
> new user - I think it should be able to read one newsgroup without
> downloading the entire list. THis scares away new users and they never come
> back. (I use usenet on unix/tin)
>
> I think USENET needs to market itself better so as to attrach serious (not
> flippant) new users.
>
>
Thunderbird also does that, it takes a few seconds only.
TBH Usenet has retreated back into what it once was. A small thing for
geeks to use. That's fine by me.
The web based fora are infinitely better for many things..specifically
the ability to post pictures to illustrate stuff is far superior.
That's not an issue on most non gui techie groups like this.
But it's a huge advantage if you want to e.g. guide someone through what
buttons to click on a GUI screen, or going off topic even more, show
someone how to construct a roof.
Usenet probably has a place in low bandwidth countries as well. And may
yet prove useful in the mobile arena.
But I have no special attachment, beyond sentimentality, to it.
Richard Bonner
> The web based fora are infinitely better for many things..specifically
> the ability to post pictures to illustrate stuff is far superior.
*** Binary newsgroups do allow images, though.
> That's not an issue on most non gui techie groups like this.
*** Correct.
> Usenet probably has a place in low bandwidth countries as well.
*** Only 3% or so have broadband, so Usenet is still very useful. Even
with broadband, it's overkill for text newsgroups.
> And may yet prove useful in the mobile arena.
*** Given the popularity of texting, I'd agree.
Robert Heller
>
> The Natural Philosopher (t...@invalid.invalid) wrote:
> > The web based fora are infinitely better for many things..specifically
> > the ability to post pictures to illustrate stuff is far superior.
>
> *** Binary newsgroups do allow images, though.
>
>
> > That's not an issue on most non gui techie groups like this.
>
> *** Correct.
>
>
> > Usenet probably has a place in low bandwidth countries as well.
>
> *** Only 3% or so have broadband, so Usenet is still very useful. Even
> with broadband, it's overkill for text newsgroups.
*Large* parts of the *USA* don't have broadband. Western Mass. Most
of Appalachia. Northern New England. Generally *rural* America has no
broadband Internet. Web based fora is something *I* avoid like the
plague. Way to painfully slow to deal with. Instead I use an off-line
news and mail reader program, which is text based.
>
>
> > And may yet prove useful in the mobile arena.
>
> *** Given the popularity of texting, I'd agree.
>
--
David Brown
> At Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:18:32 +0000 (UTC) ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard Bonner) wrote:
>
>>
>> The Natural Philosopher (t...@invalid.invalid) wrote:
>>> The web based fora are infinitely better for many things..specifically
>>> the ability to post pictures to illustrate stuff is far superior.
>>
>> *** Binary newsgroups do allow images, though.
>>
>>
>>> That's not an issue on most non gui techie groups like this.
>>
>> *** Correct.
>>
>>
>>> Usenet probably has a place in low bandwidth countries as well.
>>
>> *** Only 3% or so have broadband, so Usenet is still very useful. Even
>> with broadband, it's overkill for text newsgroups.
>
> *Large* parts of the *USA* don't have broadband. Western Mass. Most
> of Appalachia. Northern New England. Generally *rural* America has no
> broadband Internet. Web based fora is something *I* avoid like the
> plague. Way to painfully slow to deal with. Instead I use an off-line
> news and mail reader program, which is text based.
>
Usenet is far faster to use than web based forums, regardless of the
bandwidth. I have 15 Mbit up and down - web based forums are still slow
to navigate.
Charlie Gibbs
david...@removethis.hesbynett.no (David Brown) writes:
> Usenet is far faster to use than web based forums, regardless of the
> bandwidth. I have 15 Mbit up and down - web based forums are still
> slow to navigate.
They have to link to all those ad sites, doncha know.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
The Natural Philosopher
David Brown
I've been using adblock and flashblock for years - web base forums are
still much slower to use than Usenet. It wouldn't matter if the server
and the browser were the same PC, running at a gazillion MHz - it's the
interface and the way web forums work that makes them slow to use.
Robert Heller
They still suck: avatars, images, animated smilies, hoky JS editors,
yech. I much prefer editing text messages with MicroEmacs 3.10.
Sidney Lambe
Amen! Web-based forums are a pitiful attempt to turn HTTP into
NNTP. What they lack in functionality they try to compensate for
with eye-candy.
Give me a private newsserver, or a listserver, any day.
Sid
John Hasler
> web base forums are still much slower to use than Usenet. ... it's the
> interface and the way web forums work that makes them slow to use.
Interfaces, plural. And that's one of the major problems with them:
each has a different wonky interface. On Usenet I get to use the reader
of my choice.
--
John Hasler
jha...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA