A message to Self-Appointed-NewsGroup-Netiquette-Enforcers... PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE!
sas...@gmail.com
I hate people who post messages to complain about others posting to
multiple newsgroups, or condescendingly point to the documents in
answer to a question, or sarcastically hint at the triviality of a
posted question or suggestion.
I would like to see the FAQ for each newsgroup updated to teach
regulars on a newsgroup how to be inviting and helpful to newcomers.
After all, every community wants to be prospering, and thriving, and
noone wants the online community of each news-group to be damaged
because of a few regulars who in spite being good at what they do, have
no business being in public relations.
Here's a few suggestions that I am going to scream out (note all upper
case) hoping that it will be heard:
-IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE TO SAY, KEEP QUIET.
-YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS APPROPRIATE IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE.
-GET IT IN YOUR ALL-KNOWING HEAD THAT IF A QUESTION OR SUGGESTION SEEMS
TOO TRIVIAL, YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD IT TO BEGIN WITH.
-IF A QUESTION IS IN FACT TOO TRIVIAL, GIVE OTHERS THE FREEDOM TO BE
LESS SMART OR LESS RESOURCEFUL THAN YOU.
-UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO IS ASKING A QUESTION WANTS TO BE AN
EXPERT IN THE TOPIC. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST NEED QUICK HELP IN ORDER TO
GET GOING WITH THEIR WORK. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO HELP, IGNORE IT.
-ALLOW TOPICS TO RESURFACE. STOP SAYING THAT A TOPIC HAS ALREADY BEEN
DISCUSSED. NEW DISCUSSION THREADS OF OLD TOPICS BRING ABOUT SOLUTIONS
PREVIOUSLY MISSED, OR NEWLY CREATED.
-STOP THINKING THAT IF SOMEONE DOESN'T KNOW ENGLISH, THEY ARE STUPID.
MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. DON'T BE
CONDESCENDING TO PEOPLE WHOSE WRITINGS ARE NOT PERFECT OR MAKE SPELLING
MISTAKES.
Please post this message or any modification of it that you seem
appropriate to any news-group that suffers from these same sort of
people.
Lyle Fairfield
mst
> I would like to see the FAQ for each newsgroup updated to teach
> regulars on a newsgroup how to be inviting and helpful to newcomers.
We already give our OWN time to help others ... but most of those
wanting help are so unwilling to help theirselves, come out for
the quick answer without any effort on their part.
But you probably dont understand that, based on your post.
Maybe this will help you "understand" ...
(read it ALL the way through)
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
--
remove MYSHOES to email
Larry Linson
will give them due consideration.
Larry Linson
sas...@gmail.com
Mr. MST:
Read carefully please:
-UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO IS ASKING A QUESTION WANTS TO BE AN
EXPERT IN THE TOPIC. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST NEED QUICK HELP IN ORDER TO
GET GOING WITH THEIR WORK. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO HELP, IGNORE IT.
(I wish I had numbered my comments so that I could just refer to them!)
Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
"help others."
Sometimes I can answer in 2 minutes a question that takes someone else
20 hours to research. I personally believe me giving 2 minutes is more
reasonable. If you don't agree, MOVE ON! You don't have to spend that 2
minutes telling them that you are an expert but you don't feel like
answering their question because they haven't done the due-deligence.
grenoble
news:PYslf.11962$SY.5668@trnddc06
> Thank you for sharing your views. I am sure that all the participants
> here will give them due consideration.
I doubt that anyone would even read such dribble.
Ku Karlovsky
wrote in message
<<1133915325....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>>:
> I hate people who post messages to complain about others posting to
> multiple newsgroups
You must first learn the basics of newsgroup etiquette and ethics.
Your uninformed tirade is off-topic and the spamming you support is
unethical.
> -IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE TO SAY, KEEP QUIET.
You must first take your own advice before offering it to others.
> -YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS APPROPRIATE IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE.
You must learn that those who make statements using nothing but
capital letters are often and justifiably abused. It is a failed
attempt to provide emphasis.
> -UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO IS ASKING A QUESTION WANTS TO BE AN
> EXPERT IN THE TOPIC. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST NEED QUICK HELP IN ORDER TO
> GET GOING WITH THEIR WORK.
Understand that newsgroups are for discussion. No usenet subscriber
has any right to an answer to any "question". If the problem is
urgent, paid support is available.
> -ALLOW TOPICS TO RESURFACE. STOP SAYING THAT A TOPIC HAS ALREADY BEEN
> DISCUSSED. NEW DISCUSSION THREADS OF OLD TOPICS BRING ABOUT SOLUTIONS
> PREVIOUSLY MISSED, OR NEWLY CREATED.
Those with experience often come to ignore repetitive queries
especially on subjects which have been covered dozens of times in the
past. If people are unwilling to do their own, independent research
they are best informed of how such research is performed.
> Please post this message or any modification of it that you seem
> appropriate to any news-group that suffers from these same sort of
> people.
Virtually all subscribers will ignore your request to spam. Quite
some time ago, the newsgroup news.newusers.questions was created to
help dispel misunderstands such as yours about usenet; subscribe to it
and read the articles before proffering another rant.
Robert Melson
"sas...@gmail.com" <sas...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
> Mr. MST:
>
> Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
> asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
> "help others."
>
And you, m'friend, have not been appointed spokesman for the other side.
You might want to keep in mind the aphorism, "give a man a fish and he will eat
for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime". That very much
applies to these technical groups, as well. Most people who claim - and
demonstrate - any expertise in, e.g., sendmail, have spent time in the trenches,
learning by doing, reading the FAQs, man pages and other documentation. Yes,
they might be able to solve your problem in a couple of minutes, but where's
the value to you in that, if you learn nothing as a result?
Speaking only for myself, I have no problem devoting time to somebody else's
problem if he shows he's done some basic research on his own, gives a
reasonable explanation of the problem and the steps he's taken to resolve it,
but is still stymied. On the other hand, if somebody says something like "I
need to get sendmail working and I'm too busy to read the instructions", I'm
more likely to ignore him or to tell him where to go to find the answer on his
own. You might not like this, but it's a not unreasonable attitude. I've
spent years developming whatever skills I have and reserve the right to offer
them as _I_ see fit, not in response to the petulant demands of a spoiled brat.
Having said that, I will leave you with the sound of your name going into my
killfile ..
<plonk!>
Bob Melson
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----
Dave Uhring
> On 6 Dec 2005 16:28:45 -0800, "sas...@gmail.com" <sas...@gmail.com>
> wrote in message
> <<1133915325....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>>:
>
>> I hate people who post messages to complain about others posting to
>> multiple newsgroups
>
> You must first learn the basics of newsgroup etiquette and ethics.
> Your uninformed tirade is off-topic and the spamming you support is
> unethical.
You need to learn that some of us filter on inappropriate cross-posts. If
you choose to reply to such spam then please continue the cross-posting so
that we will not be bothered by your puerile discussions.
From what I saw of your quotes of the OP none of it had to do with Linux.
Why did you selectively post it to c.o.l.setup?
sas...@gmail.com
This discussion has to get started someplace. It might as well be here
where I am looking for answers to a problem I am facing in setting up a
RAID0 array on my linux box.
In response to those who take pride in their ability to put a filter on
what they don't like to hear, I say.... well.. forget it. Any comment
to such individuals would be a waste of everybody's time, including
mine.
The following advice is useful to those who know themselves to be a
target of my comments:
"Anytime you feel you are in a position to answer a question, but don't
feel like doing so because you don't like the way it is asked. either
ignore it, or put the poster on your ignore filter!, Spare everyone the
banality of reading how you got to be such an expert, and how everybody
else should pay their dues like you have. "
:)
Dave Uhring
> This discussion has to get started someplace.
No, it does not, especially in c.o.l.setup. It is completely off-topic.
Peter Köhlmann
< snip all upper-case drivel >
> (I wish I had numbered my comments so that I could just refer to them!)
>
> Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
> asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
> "help others."
>
And you are not the representative of anybody else safe yourself here
> Sometimes I can answer in 2 minutes a question that takes someone else
> 20 hours to research. I personally believe me giving 2 minutes is more
> reasonable. If you don't agree, MOVE ON! You don't have to spend that 2
> minutes telling them that you are an expert but you don't feel like
> answering their question because they haven't done the due-deligence.
Well, with that attitude you are for sure getting no answers at all
Deservedly
--
Microsoft Windows - The art of incompetence.
John Beardmore
Melson <mel...@aragorn.rgmhome.net> writes
> Yes,
>they might be able to solve your problem in a couple of minutes, but where's
>the value to you in that, if you learn nothing as a result?
But who says a simple answer quickly delivered won't teach them
anything.
At a minimum it's likely to teach them which config file and some of the
syntax therein.
...
> I've
>spent years developming whatever skills I have and reserve the right to offer
>them as _I_ see fit, not in response to the petulant demands of a spoiled brat.
:) Yes - there are some petulant people about...
Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
John Beardmore
<peter.k...@t-online.de> writes
>begin virus.txt.scr sas...@gmail.com wrote:
>< snip all upper-case drivel >
>
>> (I wish I had numbered my comments so that I could just refer to them!)
>>
>> Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
>> asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
>> "help others."
>
>And you are not the representative of anybody else safe yourself here
Actually - a number of people have made similar remarks over the years.
>> Sometimes I can answer in 2 minutes a question that takes someone else
>> 20 hours to research. I personally believe me giving 2 minutes is more
>> reasonable. If you don't agree, MOVE ON! You don't have to spend that 2
>> minutes telling them that you are an expert but you don't feel like
>> answering their question because they haven't done the due-deligence.
>
>Well, with that attitude you are for sure getting no answers at all
If I can move somebody on to the next problem and speed their progress
by a factor of 60 I will if I have time to. I guess if you don't have
time to you can always not answer (as opposed to spending time
explaining why you won't answer).
I also think that giving help specific help may be of use where people
are going up multiple learning curves of OS, editors, X, sendmail etc.
Answering a few specific questions that get people going may make their
task a lot less daunting, and not everybody will cope well with the
abstract content of some FAQs on sendmail, m4 etc. They will inevitably
learn something in the process of implementing any suggestions we offer,
and if everybody in the world sought to speed the progress of other
people by a factor of 60 when possible, maybe we'd all get more done.
Of course - if you think you're immune to such benefit, feel free.
>Deservedly
Maybe we shouldn't judge what other people deserve too hastily ?
Terry Kreft
1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
problems.
2) Responders spend their own time replying to posters, if the responder
wants to spend that time giving a full and complete answer or referncing a
webpage, previous thread or whatever then that is entirely up to them.
3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders responses then
ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.
4) It's a general truism in life that you get what you pay for, if your
lucky, with NGs you pay nothing for a massive resource of experience if you
don't like what you get then essentially hard luck, you can then fall back
on the resoure of working it out for yourself and doing your own research.
In summary your posting is the most selfish, self-serving plea I have ever
seen and displays a staggeringly woeful lack of perception as to what
newsgroups are about. If you don't like it here then don't come. If you
think ther is a better way to answer OPs then do it, but don't stand there
with your hand out for favours and then complain because you don't get
exactly what you want.
--
Terry Kreft
<sas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133915325....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I hate people who post messages to complain about others posting to
<Snivelling garbage snipped>
>
V
> multiple newsgroups, or condescendingly point to the documents in
> answer to a question, or sarcastically hint at the triviality of a
> posted question or suggestion.
Troll detected.
--
V
Keith W
> multiple newsgroups, or condescendingly point to the documents in
> answer to a question, or sarcastically hint at the triviality of a
> posted question or suggestion.
>
You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it.
<PLONK>
Mark South
> You just want me for my body then?
Just the liver, thanks.
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfb...@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
Mark South
That's exactly what Larry meant.
We now return you to your routine plonkings....
JDS
Most of the responses to this point to your OP have been pretty
reasonable, civil, and polite. But I will try to summarize thusly:
Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions.
My finding is that greater than 99% of the questions posted on Usenet (and
indeed, most WWW forums) are answered correctly, quickly, civilly,
politely, etc. If you didn't like the response you got then piss off.
--
JDS | jef...@example.invalid
| http://www.newtnotes.com
DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
Keith Keller
>
> This discussion has to get started someplace. It might as well be here
> where I am looking for answers to a problem I am facing in setting up a
> RAID0 array on my linux box.
Then why did you crosspost it to Access and Sendmail newsgroups?
> The following advice is useful to those who know themselves to be a
> target of my comments:
''Target of your comments''? Do you realize those same targets might be
your best bet for answers to the problem you are facing in setting up a
RAID0 array on your linux box?
> "Anytime you feel you are in a position to answer a question, but don't
> feel like doing so because you don't like the way it is asked. either
> ignore it, or put the poster on your ignore filter!, Spare everyone the
> banality of reading how you got to be such an expert, and how everybody
> else should pay their dues like you have. "
Good advice. *PLOINK!* Good luck getting help from Alan Connor.
--keith, who doesn't normally publicly plonk, but thought this poster
earned it
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Rick Merrill
> In article <1133927757.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> "sas...@gmail.com" <sas...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>>
>>Mr. MST:
>>
>>Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
>>asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
>>"help others."
>>
>
>
> And you, m'friend, have not been appointed spokesman for the other side.
>
> You might want to keep in mind the aphorism, "give a man a fish and he will eat
> for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime".
The modern version is "Teach a man to use the internet, and he won't
bother you for weeks."
Robert Melson
Well, yeah, but that assumes the OP knows something about the 'net beyond
bitching about the free help.
Bob
PC Datasheet
What happened to flaunting "Microsoft Access MVP" after your name?
Steve
"Larry Linson" <bou...@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:PYslf.11962$SY.5668@trnddc06...
Keith W
news:0BOlf.1044$Dd2...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Larry,
>
> What happened to flaunting "Microsoft Access MVP" after your name?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
ended their silence and come out against you?
John Chajecki
Sorry, but you have got it all wrong!
Fist of all, sendmail is NOT for the fainthearted. Setting it up is quite involved and highly technical. Many who come on here genuinely need help and are frequently met with condescending comments abount their ability or about ettiquette. Many are not new to newsgroups and do not desire to be treated like they were born yesterday. Many need help and some degree of symapthy with the convoluted documentation and some support with understanding the product.
I have even been turned away asking for paid for support!
The sooner you start treating those who require your help with understanding and some respect the better.
John Chajecki
bitching about the free help."
Only an arrogant person would make that assumption. If you don't want to offer help, don't bother. No one asked you too.
I can't even get paid for support for sendmail!
John Chajecki
Being paid NOT the point. Having manners and being civil to those who ask for assitance is. I have been prepeared to get paid for assistance on a recent occasion but it was not forthcomming. I've spend days in frustration which could have been better and more productively spent working through the issue with someone if they were willing. Instead I got condescending comments and downright rudeness to my questions. As a result, I am now considering getting rid of the sendmail product and replacing it with something that is better supported, commerically or otherwise.
"My finding is that greater than 99% of the questions posted on Usenet (and
indeed, most WWW forums) are answered correctly, quickly, civilly,
politely, etc. If you didn't like the response you got then piss off."
Clearly those statitics are NOT based on this topic. Your own comments here leave a lot to be desired and speak for themselves.
John Chajecki
To the contrary, I thing the OP has a valid point and is clearly frustrated by his experience on this this topic - unfortunately I share his frustration having spend 5 agonsiing days trying to get SASL and SMTP auth to work, and getting little help. My thanks go to Claus Assman for pointing me in the right direction, but I am overall gobsmacked by vitriolic comments of some posters on this list.
John Chajecki
> 1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
> participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
> problems.
OK, so what are the rules for this list?
> 2) Responders spend their own time replying to posters, if the responder
> wants to spend that time giving a full and complete answer or referncing a
> webpage, previous thread or whatever then that is entirely up to them.
Agreed.
> 3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders responses then
> ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.
Again agreed. But that's no excuse for rude, condescending and patronising comments.
> 4) It's a general truism in life that you get what you pay for, if your
> lucky, with NGs you pay nothing for a massive resource of experience if you
> don't like what you get then essentially hard luck, you can then fall back
> on the resoure of working it out for yourself and doing your own research.
Very true, but making the assumption that the person asking the question is as knowlegeable as you and unwilling to spend time researching the issue. Usually they are not as experienced as some of you, and have often spent considerable time reasearching the issue and come to a dead end.
> In summary your posting is the most selfish, self-serving plea I have ever
> seen and displays a staggeringly woeful lack of perception as to what
> newsgroups are about. If you don't like it here then don't come. If you
> think ther is a better way to answer OPs then do it, but don't stand there
> with your hand out for favours and then complain because you don't get
> exactly what you want.
Had it been any other newsgroup I would provbably agree, but NOT this one. The author Op has a valid point. Your comment assumes that just becasue we are new to this particular newsgroup, we have no knowledge of newgropups in general. I've been using them for more than 20 years now and have never come across one with such a poor community sprrit as this one.
I don't expect hand outs, and neither I suspect does the OP. I just hope someone has the common courtesy to answer my question respectfully without complaining that I am a newbie (even though I'm not).
John Chajecki
grenoble
news:1Y2dnb5-9en...@pipex.net
>> 1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by
>> the participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have
>> any problems.
>
> OK, so what are the rules for this list?
This isn't a "list", it's Usenet. One of the rules is to not cross-post to
multiple newsgroups off-topic threads, so join the killfile. <*plonk*>
Robert Melson
And you're making an arrogant assumption, as well.
So, let's back up for a minute and review the play. OP is obviously frustrated
at something that's occurred on one of the cross-posted newsgroups - what, I
have absolutely no idea. What is evident from his posts, however, is that he
expects folks here and on the other groups to rush to his assistance, with
complete cites of documentation and letter perfect explanations of the solution
to whatever his problem is. Things don't work that way. Often times, the
best help is for the responder to make reference to the FAQ or documentation
appropriate to the problem's solution. Other times, the problem is so poorly
described that a person wishing to help must ask for details and information
that the help-seeker has failed to provide, often over the course of several
iterations and usually in greater and greater depth and detail. Except in the
very rarest of instances, the person seeking help in resolving a problem is
expected to work and learn for himself - with assistance- rather than being
handed the solution on a silver platter.
In the present case, many of those responding to the OP's polemic have -
politely, in my opinion - pointed these things out, as well as discussing the
general rules of netiquette, all of which the OP has ignored or dismissed as
not meeting _his_ criteria. I can understand that the OP is frustrated by
whatever his problem is, but it won't be solved by standing in the middle of
the room screaming at the folks who are most likely to be able to help him. By
behaving like a petulant 3-year-old and demanding that his problem be solved
for him according to his sense of "the right way to do things", he's more likely
to become a pariah on these groups than he is to receive help. He has no right
to demand that I or anyone provide help or that that help take a particular
form. Nor has the the right to demand that a group's FAQ or rules of behavior
be changed to reflect his view of what's right and proper - the FAQ is just
that, a collection of Frequently Asked Questions, while the rules of behavior
are a matter of consensus among the denizens of a particular group, arrived at
over a period of time.
Bob Melson
Nico Kadel-Garcia
You could ask *me*. Sendmail has gotten a lot easier, with the development
of the m4 macros used to configure it these days and a lot of much saner
configuration options there.
Terry Kreft
The evils of cross-posting highlighted again.
--
Terry Kreft
"John Chajecki" <jc...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1Y2dnb5-9en...@pipex.net...
>
>> 1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
>> participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
>> problems.
>
> OK, so what are the rules for this list?
>
<SNIP>
>
>
Bri
>> 1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon
>> by the participants; if a poster follows the rules then they
>> shouldn't have any problems.
>
>
> OK, so what are the rules for this list?
In the case of CDMA: http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm
>> 3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders
>> responses then ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.
>
>
> Again agreed. But that's no excuse for rude, condescending and
> patronising comments.
The OP sends out a rude, condescending and patronizing post exclaiming
the need for polite posts. Ironic isn't it. If he had posted his
position in a calm polite way, he would likely not have been treated as
rudely in return.
> Had it been any other newsgroup I would provbably agree, but NOT this
> one. The author Op has a valid point. Your comment assumes that just
> becasue we are new to this particular newsgroup, we have no knowledge
> of newgropups in general. I've been using them for more than 20 years
> now and have never come across one with such a poor community sprrit
> as this one.
Since this thread has been crossposted to three different newsgroups,
you might want to identify which group YOU are referring to. Out of
these three, I only read and post to CDMA and other than a very few
spoiled brats find that this is a very good place to ask questions. The
regulars are extremely tolerant of newbies and the repeat questions.
Does this mean they are never subjected to a rude post? No, but it is a
fairly rare thing.
--
Bri
Walter Mitty
>
> 1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
> participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
> problems.
>
> 2) Responders spend their own time replying to posters, if the responder
> wants to spend that time giving a full and complete answer or referncing a
> webpage, previous thread or whatever then that is entirely up to them.
>
> 3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders responses then
> ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.
>
> 4) It's a general truism in life that you get what you pay for, if your
> lucky, with NGs you pay nothing for a massive resource of experience if you
> don't like what you get then essentially hard luck, you can then fall back
> on the resoure of working it out for yourself and doing your own research.
>
>
> In summary your posting is the most selfish, self-serving plea I have ever
> seen and displays a staggeringly woeful lack of perception as to what
> newsgroups are about. If you don't like it here then don't come.
If you
I think you're the kind of arrogant person whom the OP was referring
to. The only thing he requested was civility and forebearance : hardly
too much to ask I would have thought.
> think ther is a better way to answer OPs then do it, but don't stand there
> with your hand out for favours and then complain because you don't get
> exactly what you want.
>
>
He didn't : he asked for tolerance from the myriad of knowalls and
net nannies who haunt the NGs to those who know less than them.
--
Walter Mitty
>
> The evils of cross-posting highlighted again.
>
Please don't top post.
Terry Kreft
Please don't tell me how to post.
--
Terry Kreft
"Walter Mitty" <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrndpu4lq....@localhost.localdomain...
Terry Kreft
You evidently haven't bothered to read the OP properly.
--
Terry Kreft
"Walter Mitty" <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrndpu4kd....@localhost.localdomain...
> In an earlier post, Terry Kreft postulated:
>>
<SNIP
Chuck F.
> Posting from CDMA
>
> You evidently haven't bothered to read the OP properly.
Please don't top-post. Please don't cross-post. Fups set.
--
Read about the Sony stealthware that is a security leak, phones
home, and is generally illegal in most parts of the world. Also
the apparent connivance of the various security software firms.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/11/sonys_drm_rootk.html
alexl
PC Datasheet
that they are disgusted with the condescending comments and downright
rudeness in the responses to their posts for help.
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
reso...@pcdatasheet.com
<sas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133915325....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I hate people who post messages to complain about others posting to
> multiple newsgroups, or condescendingly point to the documents in
> answer to a question, or sarcastically hint at the triviality of a
> posted question or suggestion.
>
> I would like to see the FAQ for each newsgroup updated to teach
> regulars on a newsgroup how to be inviting and helpful to newcomers.
> After all, every community wants to be prospering, and thriving, and
> noone wants the online community of each news-group to be damaged
> because of a few regulars who in spite being good at what they do, have
> no business being in public relations.
>
> Here's a few suggestions that I am going to scream out (note all upper
> case) hoping that it will be heard:
>
> -IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE TO SAY, KEEP QUIET.
> -YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS APPROPRIATE IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE.
> -GET IT IN YOUR ALL-KNOWING HEAD THAT IF A QUESTION OR SUGGESTION SEEMS
> TOO TRIVIAL, YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD IT TO BEGIN WITH.
> -IF A QUESTION IS IN FACT TOO TRIVIAL, GIVE OTHERS THE FREEDOM TO BE
> LESS SMART OR LESS RESOURCEFUL THAN YOU.
> -UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO IS ASKING A QUESTION WANTS TO BE AN
> EXPERT IN THE TOPIC. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST NEED QUICK HELP IN ORDER TO
> GET GOING WITH THEIR WORK. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO HELP, IGNORE IT.
> -ALLOW TOPICS TO RESURFACE. STOP SAYING THAT A TOPIC HAS ALREADY BEEN
> DISCUSSED. NEW DISCUSSION THREADS OF OLD TOPICS BRING ABOUT SOLUTIONS
> PREVIOUSLY MISSED, OR NEWLY CREATED.
> -STOP THINKING THAT IF SOMEONE DOESN'T KNOW ENGLISH, THEY ARE STUPID.
> MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. DON'T BE
> CONDESCENDING TO PEOPLE WHOSE WRITINGS ARE NOT PERFECT OR MAKE SPELLING
> MISTAKES.
>
> Please post this message or any modification of it that you seem
> appropriate to any news-group that suffers from these same sort of
> people.
>
Thelma Lubkin
: One of the big reasons people from the newsgroups come to me for help is
: rudeness in the responses to their posts for help.
You must be talking about groups other than CDMA.
--thelma
: --
: PC Datasheet
Keith W
> One of the big reasons people from the newsgroups come to me for help is
> that they are disgusted with the condescending comments and downright
> rudeness in the responses to their posts for help.
>
>
PC Datasheet
Here's a response out of this thread -
<<Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions>> (Sorry
about the language)
Here's a response from another thread in cdma when a poster asked how to
update a backend when changes are made to a database -
<<sounds like you are confusing your back end with your front end... be
very careful in the bathroom>>
And here's a response to a poster in yet another thread in cdma-
<<READ THE FUCKING HELP FILE.>> (Again excuse the language)
Would you continue to post to the newsgroup if you got very many responses
like this?
This is one of the reasons many people are coming to me for help!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
reso...@pcdatasheet.com
"Thelma Lubkin" <the...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:dnpb5l$a4v$1...@uwm.edu...
Keith W
> Not at all ---
>
> Here's a response out of this thread -
> <<Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions>> (Sorry
> about the language)
This was a response to a non-technical flame-bait question.
>
> Here's a response from another thread in cdma when a poster asked how to
> update a backend when changes are made to a database -
> <<sounds like you are confusing your back end with your front end... be
> very careful in the bathroom>>
Hmm ... anyone with a glimmer of a sense of humour would have taken that for
what it was - a joke.
>
> And here's a response to a poster in yet another thread in cdma-
> <<READ THE FUCKING HELP FILE.>> (Again excuse the language)
And the poster's name? Not a regular on here.
Peter Köhlmann
> Posting from CDMA
>
> Please don't tell me how to post.
>
Good. Get lost, OE using top-posting cretin
--
Warning: You have moved the mouse.
Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent
PC Datasheet
You're one of the losers Salad referred to!!!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
reso...@pcdatasheet.com
"Keith W" <he...@there.com> wrote in message
news:43a03acc$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
PC Datasheet
> "PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
> news:u5Xnf.4387$3Z....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Not at all ---
>>
>> Here's a response out of this thread -
>> <<Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions>> (Sorry
>> about the language)
>
> This was a response to a non-technical flame-bait question.
It was a direct response to Sasan the original oster!!!
>
>>
>> Here's a response from another thread in cdma when a poster asked how to
>> update a backend when changes are made to a database -
>> <<sounds like you are confusing your back end with your front end... be
>> very careful in the bathroom>>
>
> Hmm ... anyone with a glimmer of a sense of humour would have taken that
> for what it was - a joke.
Only a joke to a loser like you!! The poster who got this response and
others did not think it was a bit funny!
>
>>
>> And here's a response to a poster in yet another thread in cdma-
>> <<READ THE FUCKING HELP FILE.>> (Again excuse the language)
>
> And the poster's name? Not a regular on here.
The poster frequently asks good technical questions and the responder is a
very well recognized name (and it's not XMP or any of his other aliases).
>
>
>
>
Mike Preston
<kerke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baho Utot" <onub...@pbyhzohf.ee.pbz> wrote
>> PLONK
>
>Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! I've personally blocked Steve,
>Arno, and several other irritants - but what kind of a silly statement does
>it make to block Terry Kreft? A few more injudiciously aimed plonks like
>that and reading the NG will be nothing but questions with no answers.
No doubt it is a moron (or cadre of them) from a group other than
CDMA. Either comp.mail.sendmail or comp.os.linux.setup.
Those command line creatures have no sense of relativity and give no
quarter, and wouldn't if the chief technology officer from SCO was
posting, so I would expect nothing more of them when responding to
Terry's post. I doubt that they would take the time to research his
posting history or online presence, either.
Let them have their <plonk>'s if it makes them feel manly (with
apologies to Charlie Sheen and his castmates.)
mike
Keith W
>
> "Keith W" <he...@there.com> wrote in message
> news:43a04...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>> "PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
>> news:u5Xnf.4387$3Z....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>> Not at all ---
>>>
>>> Here's a response out of this thread -
>>> <<Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions>> (Sorry
>>> about the language)
>>
>> This was a response to a non-technical flame-bait question.
>
> It was a direct response to Sasan the original oster!!!
Rubbish.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Here's a response from another thread in cdma when a poster asked how to
>>> update a backend when changes are made to a database -
>>> <<sounds like you are confusing your back end with your front end... be
>>> very careful in the bathroom>>
>>
>> Hmm ... anyone with a glimmer of a sense of humour would have taken that
>> for what it was - a joke.
>
> Only a joke to a loser like you!! The poster who got this response and
> others did not think it was a bit funny!
How do you know what others find funny, are you Claire Voyant?
Keith W
> See the post you responded to an hour later!
>
> You're one of the losers Salad referred to!!!!
>
Can you define 'loser' in this context? Can't you fight your own battles
without hiding behind your only ally? Why aren't your "1000's" of clients
from this group defending you?
Danny J. Lesandrini
--
"Keith W" <he...@there.com> wrote ...
Wayne Gillespie
>I think I once dated Claire Voyant in my youth. She was enchanting.
I dated her for a while but we broke up because she couldn't see any future in it.
Wayne Gillespie
Gosford NSW Australia
Terry Kreft
the relationship ...
(drum roll, cymbal clash)
--
Terry Kreft
"Danny J. Lesandrini" <dlesa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iMqdnbOwHIB...@giganews.com...
Keith W
news:bkv2q1l1nm9gq5pf4...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 06:51:11 -0700, "Danny J. Lesandrini"
> <dlesa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I think I once dated Claire Voyant in my youth. She was enchanting.
>
> I dated her for a while but we broke up because she couldn't see any
> future in it.
>
whether or not that was funny. Only he and he alone knows. The emphasis
being on "alone".
felmon john davis
> Only he and he alone knows. The emphasis
> being on "alone".
this debate is weird. surely you are not saying there is no undeserved
rudeness on these newsgroups, and that any such claim has to be documented
in triplicate and sworn to by one thousand others?
I think one factor in all of this is that a lot of people have become
sensitized to attacks on Linux or attempts to disrupt the groups, and
there may be some overreaction to what seems like 'trolling'. well, that's
one factor, seeing things in a generous light.
one hesitates to respond to this thread precisely because it is
crossposted to so many and is off-topic - which raises of course the
'troll' alarm. nonetheless, the OP makes some valid points and more
civility wouldn't hurt.
Felmon
Chaz Ginger
least to another more appropriate group, like
comp.pointless.discussions? It certainly isn't appropriate to linux.setup.
Thanks,
Chaz
Terry Kreft
--
Terry Kreft
"Wayne Gillespie" <bes...@NOhotmailSPAM.com.au> wrote in message
news:bkv2q1l1nm9gq5pf4...@4ax.com...
John Nemeth
: In article <1133927757.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
: "sas...@gmail.com" <sas...@gmail.com> writes:
: >
: > Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
: > asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
: > "help others."
: And you, m'friend, have not been appointed spokesman for the other side.
: You might want to keep in mind the aphorism, "give a man a fish and he will eat
: for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime". That very much
: applies to these technical groups, as well. Most people who claim - and
: demonstrate - any expertise in, e.g., sendmail, have spent time in the trenches,
: learning by doing, reading the FAQs, man pages and other documentation. Yes,
: they might be able to solve your problem in a couple of minutes, but where's
: the value to you in that, if you learn nothing as a result?
Actually, they learn that they can get somebody else to do their
job for them for free.
: Having said that, I will leave you with the sound of your name going into my
: killfile ..
: <plonk!>
I second the sentiment.
Danny J. Lesandrini
--
Danny J. Lesandrini
dlesa...@hotmail.com
http://amazecreations.com/datafast
"John Nemeth" <jne...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message news:43b2f50d$1...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
> Robert Melson (mel...@aragorn.rgmhome.net) wrote:
> : In article <1133927757.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> : "sas...@gmail.com" <sas...@gmail.com> writes:
> : >
> : > Also, you are not the representative of "WE" and nobody in "WE" has
> : > asked you to take it upon yourself to defend the time others take to
> : > "help others."
>
> : And you, m'friend, have not been appointed spokesman for the other side.
>
> : You might want to keep in mind the aphorism, "give a man a fish and he will eat
> : for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime".
I can't resist offering, once again, my favorite aphorism ...
Danny J. Lesandrini
had intended to say ...
> You might want to keep in mind the aphorism, "give a man a fish and he will eat
> for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime".
I can't resist offering, once again, my favorite aphorism ...
Give a man a fire, and he keeps warm for a day
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.