Some issues with a desktop Lenny..
The Natural Philsopher
things have eventually stabilised..one X-window crash, no idea why..
But three basic problems I need to at least find the state of the art for.
1/. SOUND. Now I used to have thunderbird play a wav file on incoming
mail. It doesn't work any more on this install.
I hasten to add that I can get sound on videos, sound on errors in
various windows, and I did get sound - inbuilt sound - on Thunderbird.
But not an external wav file. Also in the gnome sound panel (System->
preferences -> sound) although the audio subsytem tests OK, none of the
sounds 'play'.
2/. Scanner/USB issues. What a faff. I have an HP2400 scanner, and not
only are there no supplied drivers, but..
Anyway i found some drivers somewhere for it. but sane-find-scanner,
didn't. Lsusb showed the thing existed allright, but not as far as the
sane-backend stuff was concerned...anyway to cut a long story short I
ended up recompliling the latest libsane stuff, from source BUT if
anyone else does this, be aware that if you don't install libusb-dev
first, the configuration program ditches usb support. The key here is
that if lsusb finds a scanner, but 'sane-find-scanner -v' says 'no usb
support' then you have the default usbless distro libsane.
Well that got sane-find-scanner to find a scanner, but xsane segfaulted,
so off to compile that against the same env as libsane. That worked
(after installing yet more libraries and stuff: Yuk), if I ran it as
root, but not as a normal user. The issue seems to be that the actual
device created by the usb subsystem on finding a scanner, is both random
in its location, and owned by root.
It seems that the latest kernel and SANE are out of step, There isn't
kernel support for usb anymore, which breaks sane for usb scanners, but
the libusb stuff is not in the current stable distro libsane either.
And, even if it is, it breaks somehow because root owns the scanner port.
If anyone has a better workaround, I'd like to hear it..
3/. Mounting smb files systems. The way I work here is that I have two
desktops (one still a WinPee-Cee) and a server, and everything of any
note is on the server ,which has a rdiff-backup mirror disk in it. This
means that the very first thing a desktop has to do is mount a samba
shared volume.
Currently this is kludged by the following not very secure fstab entry
:-
\\192.168.0.100/me /home/me/Desktop/Myhome smbfs
Username=me,password=mypassword
0 0
This works sort of fine on boot., except that mount shows two identical
entries in the mount table, so I am not sure how mount is used at boot,
to mount it twice?
Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
If anyone can suggest a better way of doing this, I'd like to hear it.
Also, on smb mounts, one thing the Mac did do, was have a GUI network
browser that allowed smb shares to be added to the system, so if I
needed to e.g. edit files on another share, I could bring up the share
and mount it, do my editing and unmount when finished. I cant find a
tool that does this on Linux.
I do need to do that so that I can edit files on a machine 60 miles
away..sometimes. OK I can connect to that machine OK with existing
tools, but the file manager thing only seems to allow copies to and
from. There is no concept of it actually mounting the remote drive where
other apps can get at it.
Oh, and by the way, the final feeling on Linux versus OSX versus WINDOWS
XP, is that XP is probably the easiest to install, but the flakiest and
in may ways the least flexible and ugly. OSX is a slightly harder
install, but the end result, though slow, is very very nice. However the
end result is what apples says its going to be.
Linux, got to be a bit of a bitch to install as I have related. The end
result though is very good. And the customisability of the gnome thing
seems ideal for me. 4 virtual desktops is just great, so I can context
switch very easily between jobs without having to minimise
windows..that's good for workflow when someone phones..into a new blank
window, fire up what they want to talk about, and/or leave mail running
there all the time, and do 'work' in the first window.
Avery interesting set of comparisons. Apple is the slickest for the not
techies, with lots of eye candy, but its always apple's look and feel.
Windows, is the same, a slightly cheaper look and feel, and an abortion
of a system, but stuff mostly just works.
Linux, for me anyway, still a technical install, but the final result is
the ability to build more or less a setup that is geared to how I want
to work. I guess that's down to the window manager...
I put just as much work in the Mac trying to get RID of stuff it decided
I wanted, as I have on Linux trying to GET the stuff I want working, and
its still not very GUI when it comes to updates and installing software.
I've had a root console open most of the weekend..
It's nice and fast though, and very cheap. Only issue I have noticed are
some delay in video updating on the onboard chipset. Maybe I am not
using the optimal driver or something. But its good enough.
Jules
> But three basic problems I need to at least find the state of the art for.
Couple of comments below...
> I did get sound - inbuilt sound - on Thunderbird. But not an external
> wav file.
Deffo not a permissions/ownership issue?
I've also found audio under Linux to be a bit goofy at times - some apps
seem to try and hog the audio device, some seem to get upset if something
else is using the audio device, and others will co-exist happily (mixing
the output as one expects). I suspect it might be that some programmers
still see things in the "old single-app single-soundcard" way, but things
do seem to be improving as time goes on. (I'm not a Gnome user though, so
I'm not sure what clever things it tries to do with audio and which might
be getting in the way)
> 2/. Scanner/USB issues. What a faff. I have an HP2400 scanner, and not
> only are there no supplied drivers, but..
No idea there - only scanners I've ever had have been SCSI. I'm not sure
if you've mentioned your kernel version - doing so might aid others in
diagnosing the problem, though.
> Currently this is kludged by the following not very secure fstab entry
For that one, have a look at the man page for smbmount (which is used to
mount smb shares referenced in fstab) - you can give it a
'credentials=filename' option, and keep your username/password info
hidden away in a serparate root-owned file chmoded to 600 so that nobody
else can snoop on it.
> This works sort of fine on boot., except that mount shows two identical
> entries in the mount table, so I am not sure how mount is used at boot,
> to mount it twice?
I've never heard of that happening, but like I say I'm not a Gnome user,
so maybe Gnome's trying to do something clever (and failing :-)
Does the problem still happen if you boot without X, or does it only crop
up when X is running?
It shouldn't be possible to mount something twice to the same mount point,
but I think you can mount the same filesystem/share to multiple
local directories - is that what you're seeing in mount's output?
> Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
> dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
Hmm, you see the "unmounting filesystems" message and then it hangs?
> Also, on smb mounts, one thing the Mac did do, was have a GUI network
> browser that allowed smb shares to be added to the system, so if I
> needed to e.g. edit files on another share, I could bring up the share
> and mount it, do my editing and unmount when finished. I cant find a
> tool that does this on Linux.
Do you know the share names in advance, or do you mean you want a tool
that'll go hunting for shares on the local network? (i.e. analagous to
smbtree, but with a GUI)
KDE's standard file browsing util (somewhat akin to Windows Explorer)
seems to offer that, so I assume there's a Gnome analogue.
> Oh, and by the way, the final feeling on Linux versus OSX versus WINDOWS
> XP, is that XP is probably the easiest to install...
Windows: You probably can't do it, and it probably wouldn't work anyway.
OSX: You might be able to do it, or you might not.
Linux: You almost certainly can do it, but can't bloody figure out how.
cheers
Jules
The Natural Philsopher
>> Currently this is kludged by the following not very secure fstab entry
>
> For that one, have a look at the man page for smbmount (which is used to
> mount smb shares referenced in fstab) - you can give it a
> 'credentials=filename' option, and keep your username/password info
> hidden away in a serparate root-owned file chmoded to 600 so that nobody
> else can snoop on it.
>
>> This works sort of fine on boot., except that mount shows two identical
>> entries in the mount table, so I am not sure how mount is used at boot,
>> to mount it twice?
>
> I've never heard of that happening, but like I say I'm not a Gnome user,
> so maybe Gnome's trying to do something clever (and failing :-)
>
//192.168.0.100/me on /home/me/Desktop/Tempest-me type cifs (rw,mand)
//192.168.0.100/me on /home/me/Desktop/Tempest-me type cifs (rw,mand)
Two identical entries, and you can umount em twice before gettiing an error.
> Does the problem still happen if you boot without X, or does it only crop
> up when X is running?
>
Dinno. Haven't figured pout how to boot without x yet.. :-)
> It shouldn't be possible to mount something twice to the same mount point,
> but I think you can mount the same filesystem/share to multiple
> local directories - is that what you're seeing in mount's output?
>
Nope. two ,mounts to same point.
>> Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
>> dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
>
> Hmm, you see the "unmounting filesystems" message and then it hangs?
>
Nope. it just says 'no response from CIFS something or other, twice..
>> Also, on smb mounts, one thing the Mac did do, was have a GUI network
>> browser that allowed smb shares to be added to the system, so if I
>> needed to e.g. edit files on another share, I could bring up the share
>> and mount it, do my editing and unmount when finished. I cant find a
>> tool that does this on Linux.
>
> Do you know the share names in advance, or do you mean you want a tool
> that'll go hunting for shares on the local network? (i.e. analagous to
> smbtree, but with a GUI)
>
I know most things in advance
> KDE's standard file browsing util (somewhat akin to Windows Explorer)
> seems to offer that, so I assume there's a Gnome analogue.
>
doesnt seem to mount stuff though.
>> Oh, and by the way, the final feeling on Linux versus OSX versus WINDOWS
>> XP, is that XP is probably the easiest to install...
>
> Windows: You probably can't do it, and it probably wouldn't work anyway.
> OSX: You might be able to do it, or you might not.
> Linux: You almost certainly can do it, but can't bloody figure out how.
>
Yup. Thats close enough ;-)
Darren Salt
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:37:46 +0000, The Natural Philsopher wrote:
[snip]
>> 2/. Scanner/USB issues. What a faff. I have an HP2400 scanner, and not
>> only are there no supplied drivers, but..
> No idea there - only scanners I've ever had have been SCSI. I'm not sure if
> you've mentioned your kernel version - doing so might aid others in
> diagnosing the problem, though.
This sounds more like a udev issue to me.
[snip]
>> Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
>> dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
> Hmm, you see the "unmounting filesystems" message and then it hangs?
Probably ACPI issues. Worth checking elsewhere; board model & BIOS version
will probably be helpful. It's possible that a BIOS update or a newer kernel
may help, or that some kernel command-line option may be needed.
[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| Let's keep the pound sterling
Man who eats too many prunes, sits on toilet, many moons!
Jules
>>> Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
>>> dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
>
>> Hmm, you see the "unmounting filesystems" message and then it hangs?
>
> Probably ACPI issues.
That was my initial thought, hence the question - I've seen quite a few
syste swith broken ACPI implementations (or just required bits not
present in the kernel) which just "stop" at shutdown time, rather
than powering themselves off (and of course until a few years ago that's
the way every machine worked anyway :-)
Given TNP's CIFS comment in the other post, sounds like it might not ever
be getting to that stage, though.
The Natural Philsopher
apt-get install esounds
apt-get install libesd-alsa0
Definitely don't put a 5 minute sound file on thunderbird tho: locks the
whole windows and email while it rumbles on....
Jules
> //192.168.0.100/me on /home/me/Desktop/Tempest-me type cifs (rw,mand)
> //192.168.0.100/me on /home/me/Desktop/Tempest-me type cifs (rw,mand)
>
> Two identical entries, and you can umount em twice before gettiing an error.
Interesting! I just did a quick test here, and whilst I can't mount things
like my CDROM drive more than once (mount dies with an error on the
second mount attempt), I *can* do so with a CIFS mount.
I'm not sure if that's a bug in mount.cifs or a feature :-)
>> Does the problem still happen if you boot without X, or does it only crop
>> up when X is running?
>>
> Dinno. Haven't figured pout how to boot without x yet.. :-)
1) Change your default run-level in /etc/inittab (it's 3 here for
multi-user console, 4 for multi-user GUI, but it might vary between
distros). That'll change it for every boot.
2) Use whatever boot manager you have to pass the initial run-level to the
kernel; I think it'll accept the run-level as a single integer
parameter - but that's assuming your boot manager's set up to let you
select different kernels and pass params to them (by default I think
some distros do a "boot into kernel xyz without waiting", so you'd
have to screw around with the boot manager's config). Doing it this way
will change the run-level for the current boot only.
3) Load the GUI as normal, open a shell window, su to root, issue 'telinit
3' (same number as above), then exit out (not shutdown, reboot etc.) of
Gnome/X - in theory it should then dump you to a textual shell prompt.
(I'm wary of that method in this context though as it doesn't
necessarily rule Gnome out as being the cause of the duplicated count)
> Nope. two ,mounts to same point.
Hmm, thought -are you using some kind of automounter to try and magically
mount smb/cifs shares on-demand? (the only one I'm aware of is the autofs
which has been around for ages - see if you have any /etc/auto* config
files).
Given that mount.cifs doesn't seem to barf if asked to mount the same
share twice, then if you happened to have your shares in /etc/fstab *and*
the automounter config then it might explain why you see the same share
appear more than once.
>>> Also, on shutdown, the whole machine hangs as there is no explicit
>>> dismount I guess. Mains switch time, every time.
>>
>> Hmm, you see the "unmounting filesystems" message and then it hangs?
>>
> Nope. it just says 'no response from CIFS something or other, twice..
OK, I did a quick google on that, and found the following two:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431966
http://www.jejik.com/articles/2007/07/automatically_mounting_and_unmounting_samba_windows_shares_with_cifs/
(scroll down a little on the latter one, and watch for wrapping on that
long link).
I think that sounds like the problem you're seeing, and it's a f*ckup in
Lenny by the sounds of it; at shutdown mount.cifs can't run until
nothing's using the share, but out-of-the-box by the time nothing's using
the share, the network infrastructure needed to do the unmount has already
been stopped.
There's a script in there which you might want to try and which might fix
things.
cheers
Jules