Conversion
Ian Parker
it. They keep sending me updates which will NOT install and every day
or so the operating system goes down, ostensibly to try to install
these updates which it repeatedly fails to install.
Are there any problems like this with Linux systems? Linux seems to
stay up almost indefinitely. I am not an expert on operating systems.
I would like to know.
1) What would be the best way of migrating from Vista Home Edition (64
bit) to Linux. What is the best configuration and how would I go about
installing it?
2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
I am absolutely fed up with Windows and I would like some help.
- Ian Parker
bosco
If I were you, I would do some reading on beginners Distros such as
PCLinuxOS which were created for people such as yourself. I use it and
I recommend PCLinuxOS to others. Ubuntu is a good choice too, but
updates are more frequent.
Linux can be more frustrtaing than WIndows if you choose a Distro that
is more complex than your skill level. Some Distros are mode for people
who want complete control over their systems. These Distros are not
made for new Linux users. Using them will be a frustrating experience.
That being said, I would recommend PCLinuxOS as your first choice, and
Ubuntu as your secod choice.
Either of those two distro run as a live cd. What this means is you can
download or order them, and try them without making any changes to your
computer. When you make your decision you can install either distro as
they are both easy to install. good luck.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> I am using a Windows Vista system and I am extremely dissatisfied with
> it. They keep sending me updates which will NOT install and every day
> or so the operating system goes down, ostensibly to try to install
> these updates which it repeatedly fails to install.
By "they" do you mean Microsoft, or vendors of other apps? If automatic
updates are not installing ok, I think you probably need to try and find out
why. There are newsgroups where you can get help on something like that,
eg:
comp.os.ms-windows.misc
If it were me, I'd turn off automatic updates then try and work through
whatever seems to be a problem one by one, because I greatly dislike the way
the automatic process works. But I'm not sure I'd recommend that to someone
who isn't so sure of what they're doing.
It may be that if just one troublesome update is sorted out, the others
would install ok.
> Are there any problems like this with Linux systems?
I'd say there's problems like this in every OS... The problem is that the
suppliers have to try and design a mechanism to install updates which will
work when used by people who have no idea what's going on, and who may have
all sorts of fully- and partially- installed software on their computers.
By making the update processes 'automatic' and hiding the details of how
they work, the vendors also make it hard for anyone who's interested to work
out what's going wrong and fix problems.
> Linux seems to stay up almost indefinitely.
Linux systems which "stay up indefinitely" will be those that don't get
tinkered with. Windows systems which aren't tinkered with are also fairly
stable.
> I am not an expert on operating systems. I would like to know.
>
> 1) What would be the best way of migrating from Vista Home Edition (64
> bit) to Linux. What is the best configuration and how would I go about
> installing it?
>
> 2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
> versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
>
> I am absolutely fed up with Windows and I would like some help.
You need to bear in mind that even if you can find applications that are
equivalent to every one you use now on Windows, they are unlikely to look &
feel exactly the same as what you're used to.
The desktop itself (many versions) and the equivalent of Windows Explorer
(many versions) are clearly going to look and feel different - just the fact
that there's several available of each makes that obviously true.
So you will have to expect to spend some time, perhaps quite a lot of time,
finding out how to make a linux system behave the way you want. If you
explore more than one distro you will need to devote some of that time
trying to sort out in your mind which bits of the way thing behave are
common to all distros but are different from Windows - eg the way
filesystems work - and which bits are distro or app-within-distro- specific.
If you've used Windows for years there'll be a lot of things you just do
automatically in a Windows-way. You may find that not being able to do
those automatic things in the same way, or an 'obvious' way, more of a
mental stumbling block than you expect.
Just as on Windows, both the OS and apps you run will need updates applied
sometimes, for various reasons. Whether or not that goes more smoothly than
you are used to, it will require you to learn a new way of doing updates.
I think you might be better off spending serious time finding out what's
wrong with your current system and fixing it. In any case, only a fool
would decide to migrate from Windows to anything else without being able to
fall back to the original system if the new system doesn't work out.
Although you can run a 'live CD' version of a linux distro on your PC, to
geta flavour of what linux is like, it will probably be slower than a fully
installed linux, and it might or might not remember settings (eg column
layouts in the equivalent of Windows Explorer) from one run to the next,
which can be irritating to a new user, in my experience.
In my view it's better to experiment with one or more linux distros on a
different computer so that nothing you do on that system can damage the main
system.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Bit Twister
> I am using a Windows Vista system and I am extremely dissatisfied with
> it.
You are not alone. If you go to http://distrowatch.com/ , scroll down
and look at Page Hit Ranking, right side of page, you can see counts
of people looking to see which linux to use.
> They keep sending me updates which will NOT install and every day
> or so the operating system goes down, ostensibly to try to install
> these updates which it repeatedly fails to install.
Sounds like a malware infestation or corrupt file system. If me I
would save any data, disconnect from Internet, format and re-install,
enable firewall, re-connect and get updates.
> Are there any problems like this with Linux systems?
No.
> Linux seems to stay up almost indefinitely.
Hmm, sounding like a troll. Is that experience at work or what?
> I am not an expert on operating systems.
> I would like to know.
Yes, linux will stay up unless hardware goes bad. Only reboots
required are when you have an updated Kernel to install.
> 1) What would be the best way of migrating from Vista Home Edition (64
> bit) to Linux. What is the best configuration and how would I go about
> installing it?
Download a Live cd for different distributions, play with it to get
experience as to which one you like.
Warning, Live CDs run very slowly since the rom drive is slower than
hard drive, and programs have to be decompressed, before running. Hard
disk install runs very fast.
> 2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
> versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
Micro$oft continually change/improve format of files. That of course
breaks any compatibility across systems.
> I am absolutely fed up with Windows and I would like some help.
Not all plugins have been converted to 64 bit os.
You can do as I do, install 32 bit OS to run on 64 bit hardware.
Picking a linux is like picking a vehicle. It is a user preference and
what kind of work is required. Also depends on you.
I would recommend difference Linux OS for an appliance user type verses a
power user.
Without any walls or gates which Windows has, your problem is going to
be too much choice. 300+ different Linux Distributions, more than 10 desktop
managers not to mention different applications to do the same task.
Short application example found here
http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20070701111340544/Equivalents.html
I like KDE because of the ease of configuring my desktop settings.
As a power user using Gnome and KDE applications, I install Mandriva Linux.
For a brand new Linux newbie, I would suggest KDE as desktop manager.
Since you are in Great Britain, you could download/burn a cd/dvd and
play with Mandriva Live cd at
ftp://ftp.mirrorservice.org/pub/MandrivaLinux/official/iso/2010.1/
-One- is a live cd. If you like it, you can install to your hard
drive and wind up with a dual boot system. That allows you boot
windows or linux.
-free- is a bigger install where you have numerous control over your
configuration and what software you can install and also dual boots OS.
Two major desktop managers to play with are KDE and Gnome. Try playing
with both to see which one you want to stay with.
mandriva-linux-one-2010-spring-KDE4-europe1-americas-cdrom-i586.iso
mandriva-linux-one-2010-spring-GNOME-europe-americas-cdrom-i586.iso
You will also find very helpful people in alt.os.linux.mandriva news group.
Do not complain about differences between Windows/Linux.
Micro$oft would sue in a New York minute if Look and Feel was close to windows.
Therefore application/function names are changed to protect the innocent.
bolta...@boltar.world
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>> Linux seems to stay up almost indefinitely.
>
>Linux systems which "stay up indefinitely" will be those that don't get
>tinkered with. Windows systems which aren't tinkered with are also fairly
>stable.
Not in my experience. Most systems running Exchange need a reboot at least
once a month regardless of whether you restart Exchange itself. And god help
you if you try running more than one main server program on a Windows box.
DLL hell is just the start of it.
B2003
John Hasler
> Micro$oft would sue in a New York minute if Look and Feel was close to
> windows.
Lotus lost that lawsuit many years ago. There are window managers that
make Linux look superficially very much like Windows. With those the
fundamental differences will bite you sooner or later, though. Better
to accept that it is a different OS up front.
I set a very naive former Windows user up with Ubuntu last summer.
She's quite happy.
--
John Hasler
jha...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
ray
> I am using a Windows Vista system and I am extremely dissatisfied with
> it. They keep sending me updates which will NOT install and every day or
> so the operating system goes down, ostensibly to try to install these
> updates which it repeatedly fails to install.
>
> Are there any problems like this with Linux systems? Linux seems to stay
> up almost indefinitely. I am not an expert on operating systems. I would
> like to know.
>
> 1) What would be the best way of migrating from Vista Home Edition (64
> bit) to Linux. What is the best configuration and how would I go about
> installing it?
There is no single 'best' Linux configuration (whatever you mean by that)
- it would depend on a number of factors.
>
> 2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
> versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
Quite well - I've seen no problems - but it's not 100% compatible. Some
folks claim that OO is more compatible with MS Office than MS Office is
from version to version.
>
> I am absolutely fed up with Windows and I would like some help.
Suggest you boot one of the many Linux Live CD/DVD's available. Most
major Linux distributions come with that option now - see distrowatch.com
and pick one. The most popular now seems to be Ubuntu. Over the last year
or so, I've dropped Ubuntu for Debian Stable - IMHO, it is rock solid.
>
>
> - Ian Parker
Douglas Mayne
> I am using a Windows Vista system and I am extremely dissatisfied with
> it. They keep sending me updates which will NOT install and every day or
> so the operating system goes down, ostensibly to try to install these
> updates which it repeatedly fails to install.
>
> Are there any problems like this with Linux systems? Linux seems to stay
> up almost indefinitely. I am not an expert on operating systems. I would
> like to know.
>
> 1) What would be the best way of migrating from Vista Home Edition (64
> bit) to Linux. What is the best configuration and how would I go about
> installing it?
>
> 2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
> versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
>
Open office is a cross platform application. That means you should have a
very similar experience when using under Windows, Mac, or GNU/Linux.
>
> I am absolutely fed up with Windows and I would like some help.
>
>
> - Ian Parker
>
Note: comment inline.
There are some good responses already posted on this thread with some
very good advice. I would add that what people expect computers to do is
now mostly browser based. That works very well under GNU/Linux. AFAIK,
the only remaining areas where GNU/Linux is not making as much progress
is with proprietary applications. AFAIK, you cannot view Netflix
streaming movies, iTunes probably doesn't work, etc. These missing
elements can be show stoppers for some people. You have to weigh the
potential pitfalls against the benefits. IMO, the primary benefit is
getting away from having other people decide what you can do, when you
should upgrade, and how much you pay. You become self-sufficient and you
decide what you want and need.
Another thing to consider trying out is virtualization. If you are
already running VirtualBox, VMWare Player, etc. then that will make
trying a few distributions a piece of cake. Knowing the basic tricks of
virtualization is a big plus. Eventually, you can reverse the
host/guest and relegate Windows to VM running on your GNU/Linux host.
That is becoming an excellent choice for weaning yourself away from the
dominant platforms, one step at a time.
Oh (I almost forgot to mention) GNU/Linux is built on a secure framework
from the outset; it wasn't "bolted on" as an afterthought. There are a
few hundred (at most) known Linux/Unix viruses; whereas, there are
500,000+ Windows viruses. To find out today's malware tally, just ask
your antivirus engine- only it knows for sure. ;)
--
Douglas Mayne
Sidney Lambe
"Three OS's from corporate-kings in their towers of glass,
Seven from valley-lords where orchards used to grow,
Nine from dotcoms doomed to die,
One from the Dark Lord Gates on his dark throne
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie."'
Sid
Marc Haber
>Are there any problems like this with Linux systems? Linux seems to
>stay up almost indefinitely. I am not an expert on operating systems.
>I would like to know.
If you're just looking for the better Windows you might consider
upgrading to Windows 7. It's pretty stable.
Linux is something _entirely_ different which requires extensive
learning and will give you different levels of sweet frustration. Most
users looking for the better Windows are not willing to live with that
kind of pain.
>2) How well do the various Open Office systems deal with the latest
>versions of Microsoft files such as Word and Excel?
If advanced features are used, rather badly. I have mostly given up on
interoperability and am running Windows XP in Virtualbox on Linux if I
need to do serious Office work.
Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Ian Parker
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
Problem is Microsoft makes "tinkering" as you put it compulsory. The
real solution I think would be to disable these updates. Of course a
system you don't mess with is inherently stable whether Windows or
Linux. It is simply that you can choose not to mess with Linux, you
cannot choose not to mess with Windows.
- Ian Parker
Ian Parker
Thank you very much. One point, as well as an internal C:\ drive I
also have a large external drive on which I store photos, videos etc.
It interfaces with high speed USB. Could that be used as a "disco"?
- Ian Parker
Chris F.A. Johnson
...
> Linux is something _entirely_ different which requires extensive
> learning and will give you different levels of sweet frustration.
Nonsense!
My computer literate, but definitely not geeky, granddaughter
started using Linux when she was 13.
She had no problem with it at all.
She was using software I have never used.
She never had to ask me how to do anything.
--
Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com>
Author:
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
bosco
> On 2010-10-19, Marc Haber wrote:
> ...
>> Linux is something _entirely_ different which requires extensive
>> learning and will give you different levels of sweet frustration.
>
> Nonsense!
>
> My computer literate, but definitely not geeky, granddaughter
> started using Linux when she was 13.
>
> She had no problem with it at all.
>
> She was using software I have never used.
>
> She never had to ask me how to do anything.
Oh, now you let the secret out! lol
When Linux is too complicated to use, Windows also is too complicated.
That's why we have cell phones..for people who find computers too
complicated.
DenverD
> It is simply that you can choose not to mess with Linux, you
> cannot choose not to mess with Windows.
of course you can choose not to mess with Windows.
i have no MS anywhere..
not even their BEST product, the XBox..
i don't even use WINE because i have no need for any programs that run
in Windows but not natively in Linux..
the last time i was a daily user of MS was 1995 on Win3.11
a pure Linux network greatly simplifies everything...because, MS is in
the business of constantly changing how it "works with" other
systems...and, it is a constant battle to remain harmonious..
--
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (20090817),
KDE 3.5.7 "release 72-11", openSUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.19-0.4-default
#1 SMP i686 athlon
The Natural Philosopher
> Ian Parker wrote:
>> It is simply that you can choose not to mess with Linux, you
>> cannot choose not to mess with Windows.
>
> of course you can choose not to mess with Windows.
>
> i have no MS anywhere..
>
> not even their BEST product, the XBox..
>
> i don't even use WINE because i have no need for any programs that run
> in Windows but not natively in Linux..
>
> the last time i was a daily user of MS was 1995 on Win3.11
>
> a pure Linux network greatly simplifies everything...because, MS is in
> the business of constantly changing how it "works with" other
> systems...and, it is a constant battle to remain harmonious..
>
I could also choose to not be able to do what I have to do workwise.
Despite the many good free programs on Linux, the range of what you need
a computer to do is not as well covered.
I do a lot of graphics work: The Gimp aint bad, but it goes pear shaped
on big graphic objects, and cant read all the files I have sent tp me.
Sometimes its Corel Draw, instead.
And I have not found ANY solid modelling program of any quality on Linux.
Likewise, if you get sent a Quark File, you have no hope but quark on a
mac or a PC.
Still, virtual box is there...
Jean-David Beyer
> Ian Parker wrote:
>> It is simply that you can choose not to mess with Linux, you
>> cannot choose not to mess with Windows.
>
> of course you can choose not to mess with Windows.
>
> i have no MS anywhere..
>
> not even their BEST product, the XBox..
>
> i don't even use WINE because i have no need for any programs that run
> in Windows but not natively in Linux..
>
> the last time i was a daily user of MS was 1995 on Win3.11
>
> a pure Linux network greatly simplifies everything...because, MS is in
> the business of constantly changing how it "works with" other
> systems...and, it is a constant battle to remain harmonious..
>
My old computer runs Linux most of the time, but I have a license for
Windows-XP-Home for it. I run Windows at income tax time, where I use
TaxAct. Once a year for Windows is about all I can stand. I do boot
Windows a little more than that to update my anti-virus stuff.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 13:25:01 up 14 days, 2:46, 3 users, load average: 5.19, 4.96, 4.81
Bud
> On 2010-10-19, Marc Haber wrote:
> ...
>> Linux is something _entirely_ different which requires extensive
>> learning and will give you different levels of sweet frustration.
>
> Nonsense!
>
> My computer literate, but definitely not geeky, granddaughter
> started using Linux when she was 13.
>
> She had no problem with it at all.
>
> She was using software I have never used.
>
> She never had to ask me how to do anything.
Yep, my neice, 12, took to it right away.
--
Bud
Mark Hobley
> Not in my experience. Most systems running Exchange need a reboot at
> least once a month regardless of whether you restart Exchange itself.
That's not bad for Microsoft.
When I used Microsoft Windows my tests. My results were:
A machine running Microsoft Windows '95 will typically run for about 20
minutes before crashing. The same machine running Microsoft Windows '98
crashes within 4 days.
The same machine running Linux just keeps running for as long it needs to.
I ran a shared network once, and I installed my Linux based server at a
remote location. A friend decided to deploy his Microsoft Windows NT
server at the same location.
Every few days he used to keep having to go and attend to a
software problem on his machine. In contrast, my machine ran without
attendance for about 18 months of operation before stopping due to dust
clogging the power supply intake fan.
Mark.
--
Mark Hobley
Linux User: #370818 http://markhobley.yi.org/