Thoughts on KDE 4.x
Geico Caveman
kde in various distros (starting with redhat, then slackware, debian and
then finally kubuntu) over the years. I am no stranger to kde, or linux for
that matter. I did a clean install of kde 4 (which was an unmitigated
disaster) and then removed it. Then installed kde 4.1 from hardy repos.
Seemed to be a vast improvement on kde 4.0. However, functionality is
missing :
1. Right clicking on a zip archive no longer brings up an option to extract
the files. Opening with ark reveals an empty space. Good for me that I am
savvy with commandline which I use for anything that needs snap in any
case, but this would be a showstopper for anyone brought up in GUI land.
2. KDE 4.1 does not offer to decrypt LUKS encrypted volumes that are
connected via USB. I have to use the cryptsetup luksOpen grind which I do
not mind, but this is again an area where the project has regressed.
3. If the computer crashes (and this is probably a bug related to an openafs
module I recently built) half of the KDE 4.1 settings are gone. The names
and number of the desktops is changed back to default (2), and the taskbar
is resized to fill the entire screen. Whatever happened to the old creed of
remembering the settings ?
4. If I resume after hibernating, the session opens up without any password
protection. This is a serious security hole.
5. I have an ATI card (X1300). I did the following : I copied my .kde4
directory to a backup .kde4.backup. Then enabled desktop effects. The
entire screen went blank. No issue - this is a known problem with fglrx
drivers. What happened next was a shocking and damning indictment of kde
4.1 : I switched virtual terminals, killed kdm, deleted the .kde4 directory
(rm -rf), copied it back from the backup I made (cp -pR). Then logged in.
Found all, yes, all my customizations to kde4.1 gone. Yes, GONE. I had to
redo each one of them. If .kde4 does not store all the settings, then what
does, and if something else does, then why did it not restore them (nothing
else was deleted) ?
There are many other annoyances, but the 5 above are a flavor of what to
expect. Its simply not production ready and the developers have pushed it
out of the door in a way that would make Microsoft's Vista developers
cringe. Its pretty and I can see myself using it someday. But one would
want some honesty in disclosure - this is a beta release and calling it
even 4.0 (let alone compounding that mistake with a so-called 4.1 release)
is misleading. I have seen kde go from kde 1 to kde 2 to kde 3. Except for
episodic dalliances with Gnome, I do not think there is a version of kde
that I have not used. Each has been a seamless transition from the previous
(yes, even the change from kde2 to kde3 was much much better than this).
KDE developers need to be congratulated on their hard work, and their
attention to aesthetics, but one thing you never regress on is
functionality. I do not care what nice shiny new bells and whistles you
add, you never lose functions and stability. And getting corporate style
creative with the version numbers is a cheap trick that is guaranteed to
lose users. I know you are not being paid to do this, but at some level,
you must value users. If you do, then please do not pull this stunt again.
What is done is done. But do not release a 4.2 release without making sure
that it is feature equal of 3.5.9.
Baho Utot
> KDE4.1 is mislabeled. At best, this is beta software. I have personally
> used kde in various distros (starting with redhat, then slackware, debian
> and then finally kubuntu) over the years. I am no stranger to kde, or
> linux for that matter. I did a clean install of kde 4 (which was an
> unmitigated disaster) and then removed it. Then installed kde 4.1 from
> hardy repos. Seemed to be a vast improvement on kde 4.0. However,
> functionality is missing :
>
[putolin]
Stay with KDE 3.5.9. KDE4.x is so bad I am thinking to return to GNOME, I
haven't used GNOME since RedHat 6.x / xiaman days.
The distro I use (ArchLinux) has gone to KDE 4.x (KDE3 is now removed from
the repos) which leaves me to compile KDE 3.5.9 myself. If that doesn't
work I am going GNOME.
bob
I would agree with you on kde 4.1. In my opinion it is a rough beta. It seems to have little in common except name with 3.5. I have it installed
along with 3.5 -- which I use for my admin account -- but intend to stick
with 4.1 for my user account because this is the direction kde is going and
I think it will turn out to be a great desktop. I think kde 4 turned out to be much more a project than the developers first thought and they
thought they needed to release it before it was fully baked. That said
I would not use it for anything mission critical but it is fun to use on my
home linux box.
bob
Geoffrey Clements
news:g9a30m$pgs$1...@aioe.org...
[snip long post about KDE4]
This is open source software, either get on the leading edge and help out or
hang back and use something more stable. It's your choice but if you want
leading edge don't complain if things don't work exeactly how you want them
to.
--
Geoff
Geico Caveman
Precisely the attitude that puts off users. If open source is supposed to
work as you say, why do you think they have bug reports at these project
websites ? By your reckoning, they should just have a patch mailing list,
where people send in patches. Should make for a tiny user base, rendering
the project largely irrelevant.
And I do not think you bothered to read the post before reflexively spouting
off. My main beef with KDE 4.x is not that it is feature incomplete but
that it is mislabelled. All of us know that alpha and beta software are
untested, unstable and incomplete. We can know that only if new releases of
software are honestly declared to be such. Unlike KDE 4.x.
Nathan Seese
> attention to aesthetics, but one thing you never regress on is
> functionality. I do not care what nice shiny new bells and whistles you
> add, you never lose functions and stability. And getting corporate style
> creative with the version numbers is a cheap trick that is guaranteed to
> lose users. I know you are not being paid to do this, but at some level,
> you must value users. If you do, then please do not pull this stunt
> again. What is done is done. But do not release a 4.2 release without
> making sure that it is feature equal of 3.5.9.
I've never used any version of KDE long enough to make a fair judgment on
it's quality, but from what you describe, I think your MS-style
versioning comment was pretty apt. KDE is a pretty old project, and from
what I can guess, they release versions based on time, with a "Have these
features by the next version" chart. Like every group of programmers
ever, they underestimated how long it would take, but instead of letting
it cook for a little longer when the (self-imposed!) deadline came, they
put up a tarball and called it a "release".
--
The preceding message is brought to you by Water(TM)
F8BOE
> KDE4.1 is mislabeled. At best, this is beta software. I have personally
> used kde in various distros (starting with redhat, then slackware, debian
> and then finally kubuntu) over the years. I am no stranger to kde, or
SNIP
> If you do, then please do not pull this stunt again.
> What is done is done. But do not release a 4.2 release without making sure
> that it is feature equal of 3.5.9.
>
Right!
I tried MDV 2009.0 RC1 with KDE 4.1 and it was as bad as with OpenSuSE 11.0
with KDE 4.0.nevermind.
What is the aim of the KDE crew? Destroying the good job acheived with KDE
3.5? Beeing worse than M$?
We are not alpha testers, so stop feeding us with crap! We need reliability
and no eye candy for sissies.
For me, KDE4 is not worth beeing released... Not even as pre beta.
Please make your job seriously or abandon the project now and go ahead for
something we can use.
jo...@wexfordpress.com
Unfortunately more and more software requires KDE 4 or at least QT 4,
such as Inkscape 46, Scribus 1.3.5 and so on.
So we are caught in an awkward spot. I hope it smooths out soon.
John Culleton
Ryan McCoskrie
I've seen a similar thread on www.linuxquestions.org (except that the average forum goer in such arguments makes usenet trolls look bright.
NOTE: I only understand very literal conversation, if I called you a troll by accident I did not mean that.)
What I said there was that KDE4 has gone a few steps back, to take a running
jump.
4.1 has features that were sorely missing in 4.0 (such as how the panels weren't easily adjusted) and I expect that 4.2 will bring some more of the
advantages of 3.5 back.
That said though 4.0 was a time of languish for me.
--
Established technology tends to persist in the face of new technology.
-- G. Blaauw, one of the designers of System 360