How do you pronounce LINUX?!?
L i L K O B I 2 2
I are having an arguement as to how to pronounce Linux. I know. Odd.
But I don't care. Maybe some of you know.
Is it...
L-eye-nux
OR
L-in-ux
is the I long or short? Please God help us...
If you reply to this messege, please also e-mail me cause I am lazy and
might not check this board again for a while...
Thanks.
Dan.
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
Thomas Zajic
> Ok. I know this sounds as weird as hell but bare with me. My friend
> and I are having an arguement as to how to pronounce Linux. I know.
> Odd. But I don't care. Maybe some of you know.
<ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/>
> If you reply to this messege, please also e-mail me cause I am lazy and
> might not check this board again for a while...
Too bad.
Thomas (Usenet "boards"? Yeah, right. Sheesh, some people these days ...)
--
=-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- Thomas "ZlatkO" Zajic <zla...@gmx.at> Linux-2.0.38/slrn-0.9.5.7 -
- "It is not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw." (M. C.) -
=-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
Linux should be pronounced as Linux, not leyenux.
I think one can say that the i should be longer than in
for example 'pitch' but not as long as in 'heel'.
On www.linux.org, click on 'More' next to 'What is
Linux?'. Scroll down to the links. You will find
'How to Pronounce "Linux"', which is a .au file
of Linus Torvalds pronouncing it (in Swedish, there
is also an english version, although the name 'Linux'
is of course the same in both).
Another thing you can do is learn Swedish :-). Assuming you do it
good it should become clear then, as in Swedish an i is always
pronounced as in 'pit' or as in 'heel'. That is, Swedish
doesn't have the 'eye' form of i.
/Beo
(also replied by mail)
L i L K O B I 2 2 wrote:
>
> Ok. I know this sounds as weird as hell but bare with me. My friend and
> I are having an arguement as to how to pronounce Linux. I know. Odd.
> But I don't care. Maybe some of you know.
>
> Is it...
>
> L-eye-nux
> OR
> L-in-ux
>
> is the I long or short? Please God help us...
> If you reply to this messege, please also e-mail me cause I am lazy and
> might not check this board again for a while...
>
brian moore
> Ok. I know this sounds as weird as hell but bare with me. My friend and
> I are having an arguement as to how to pronounce Linux. I know. Odd.
> But I don't care. Maybe some of you know.
>
> Is it...
>
> L-eye-nux
> OR
> L-in-ux
>
> is the I long or short? Please God help us...
> If you reply to this messege, please also e-mail me cause I am lazy and
> might not check this board again for a while...
It depends on how anal retentive you are.
Retentive: Linus pronounced it as "lee-nooks" until he got
anglicized.
Correct: The anglicization of Linus's name and the behavior of English
pronunciation would have it pronounced "Lie-nucks" (much as other
words with the same pattern of vowel and consonants, like "sinus",
"minus", "virus", etc.)
Misinformed: For no reason whatsoever, some people believe that
"Lynn-ucks" is the proper pronunciation. They have never expressed
a linguistic reason why this should be. ("it rhymes with cynics!"
is their cry, ignoring that the vowels in "cynics" have nothing to
do with the vowels in "linux"). They ignore that Linus pronounces
his own name as "Lean-us" not "Lynn-us". They ignore that with a
single consonant after a vowel, the vowel is long not short in
English (wasn't this something we learned in like 3rd grade, along
with the "when two vowels go a'walkin, the first does the talking?"
and silent e rules?)
Alas, because many Linux users live in the 'real world' where being
misinformed is valued, probably most pronounce it the last way. But
that doen't make it correct linguistically any more than "I axed him a
question" is correct.
Of course, Linus says he doesn't care how people pronounce it.... so if
you actually -care-, you're truly the most retentive.
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
John Brock
Oskar \"Beo\" Berggren <d99...@NOSPAM.dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>
>Linux should be pronounced as Linux, not leyenux.
>I think one can say that the i should be longer than in
>for example 'pitch' but not as long as in 'heel'.
>
>On www.linux.org, click on 'More' next to 'What is
>Linux?'. Scroll down to the links. You will find
>'How to Pronounce "Linux"', which is a .au file
>of Linus Torvalds pronouncing it (in Swedish, there
>is also an english version, although the name 'Linux'
>is of course the same in both).
>
>Another thing you can do is learn Swedish :-). Assuming you do it
>good it should become clear then, as in Swedish an i is always
>pronounced as in 'pit' or as in 'heel'. That is, Swedish
>doesn't have the 'eye' form of i.
The way that Linus pronounces "Linux" is a matter of little interest to
an English speaker (unless he's the sort of affected language snob who
tries to pronounce the names of foreign cities the same way the locals
do). We want "Linux" to become a commonly used word in English, don't
we? :-) As such it has to be naturalized to use standard English
vowels sounds. I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with
the name "Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish). Others prefer
to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or the other, but I
certainly don't think it's a good idea to demand that millions of
English speakers to try to approximate a non-English pronunciation!
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Rolf Magnus
>The way that Linus pronounces "Linux" is a matter of little interest to
>an English speaker (unless he's the sort of affected language snob who
>tries to pronounce the names of foreign cities the same way the locals
>do). We want "Linux" to become a commonly used word in English, don't
>we? :-) As such it has to be naturalized to use standard English
>vowels sounds. I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with
>the name "Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish). Others prefer
>to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or the other, but I
>certainly don't think it's a good idea to demand that millions of
>English speakers to try to approximate a non-English pronunciation!
So what? Should every country pronounce it different? Linus Torvalds
invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would say that he has the right
to tell us how to pronounce it. You think it's better to pronounce it wrong
because you are fom an english speaking country?
Rolf Magnus
Some Poster Guy
the way I heard Linus pronounce it in that sound clip. He pronounces
it Leenoos Torvaalds, and Lee-nooks. No one seems to notice that his
pronunciation is way different from "lynn-ucks", probably because your
English-speaking mouths can't pronounce the sounds easily. (I think I
only noticed because of the linguistics classes I have taken.) If
everyone starts pronouncing it that way, I'll do it too, but until
then, y'all can bite me. Lye-nucks all the way baby.
brian moore
Rolf Magnus <Rolf....@marconicomms.com> wrote:
> John Brock wrote...
>
> >The way that Linus pronounces "Linux" is a matter of little interest to
> >an English speaker (unless he's the sort of affected language snob who
> >tries to pronounce the names of foreign cities the same way the locals
> >do). We want "Linux" to become a commonly used word in English, don't
> >we? :-) As such it has to be naturalized to use standard English
> >vowels sounds. I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with
> >the name "Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish). Others prefer
> >to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or the other, but I
> >certainly don't think it's a good idea to demand that millions of
> >English speakers to try to approximate a non-English pronunciation!
>
> So what? Should every country pronounce it different? Linus Torvalds
> invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would say that he has the right
> to tell us how to pronounce it. You think it's better to pronounce it wrong
> because you are fom an english speaking country?
Um, considering that Linus has said "pronounce it how you want", what
precisely is "right" and what is "wrong"?
Or are you claiming to speak for Linus in asserting that your views are
more correct than his?
John Brock
Rolf Magnus <rama...@zvw.de> wrote:
>John Brock wrote...
>
>>The way that Linus pronounces "Linux" is a matter of little interest to
>>an English speaker (unless he's the sort of affected language snob who
>>tries to pronounce the names of foreign cities the same way the locals
>>do). We want "Linux" to become a commonly used word in English, don't
>>we? :-) As such it has to be naturalized to use standard English
>>vowels sounds. I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with
>>the name "Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish). Others prefer
>>to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or the other, but I
>>certainly don't think it's a good idea to demand that millions of
>>English speakers to try to approximate a non-English pronunciation!
>So what? Should every country pronounce it different? Linus Torvalds
>invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would say that he has the right
>to tell us how to pronounce it. You think it's better to pronounce it wrong
>because you are fom an english speaking country?
OF COURSE people in different countries, speaking different languages,
are going to pronounce "Linux" differently! At least that's the way it
works on this planet; maybe it's different on yours. Can you think of
a single name -- of *anything* -- that's pronounced the same all over
the world? Americans don't say "Paris" or "France" the way the French
do, and there is no reason why they should. And I'm not claiming any
special position for English; *all* languages have their own rules of
pronunciation, and any word that gets adopted into a language is
eventually going to be pronounced in a way which is comfortable for the
speakers of that language.
So the question is not whether Americans will pronounce "Linux" with a
Swedish accent. That just isn't going to happen, and there is nothing
you or I or Linus can do about it. The question is which of two
competing English pronunciations will win out. I happen to prefer
"Lie-nicks", rhyming with the name "Linus". I think this is makes
better sense logically, and just sounds more natural to me as a native
English speaker. Others prefer to rhyme it with "cynics", which I
think is an awkward mistake, but then sometimes mistakes do take on a
life of their own.
But I do think it is a problem (for English speakers anyway) that we
(English speakers) don't have a single definitive way to pronounce
"Linux". I don't think it's a *huge* problem, but I do think it can
add a little to the discomfort people may feel when faced with the
prospect of adopting not just a new operating system but a whole new
computing paradigm.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Rolf Magnus
>> So what? Should every country pronounce it different? Linus Torvalds
>> invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would say that he has the
right
>> to tell us how to pronounce it. You think it's better to pronounce it
wrong
>> because you are fom an english speaking country?
>
>Um, considering that Linus has said "pronounce it how you want", what
>precisely is "right" and what is "wrong"?
For me, the way the creator pronounces it is the "right".
>Or are you claiming to speak for Linus in asserting that your views are
>more correct than his?
No, I'm not. But I would pronounce it like Linus and if I talked to s.o. who
doesn't (I don't, because here in Germany, everyone pronounces it that way),
I would not like this. If the pronounciation is "free", there will be
discussions like this one again and again.
Rolf Magnus
brian moore
Rolf Magnus <Rolf....@marconicomms.com> wrote:
> brian moore wrote ...
>
> >> So what? Should every country pronounce it different? Linus Torvalds
> >> invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would say that he has the
> right
> >> to tell us how to pronounce it. You think it's better to pronounce it
> wrong
> >> because you are fom an english speaking country?
> >
> >Um, considering that Linus has said "pronounce it how you want", what
> >precisely is "right" and what is "wrong"?
>
> For me, the way the creator pronounces it is the "right".
Really? Because since moving to the US a few years ago, Linus has been
using the "rhymes-with-cynics" pronunciation off and on.
So if you want to be "right", you should start using that one as well.
> >Or are you claiming to speak for Linus in asserting that your views are
> >more correct than his?
>
> No, I'm not. But I would pronounce it like Linus and if I talked to s.o. who
> doesn't (I don't, because here in Germany, everyone pronounces it that way),
> I would not like this. If the pronounciation is "free", there will be
> discussions like this one again and again.
Um, so?
Discussions like this are only a problem when fools insist that "there is
only one true pronunciation" and fail to realize that language is a
dynamic and living thing where nothing is fixed.
Ewan Dunbar
> I have yet to hear even the pronunciation snobs among us pronounce it
> the way I heard Linus pronounce it in that sound clip. He pronounces
> it Leenoos Torvaalds, and Lee-nooks. No one seems to notice that his
> pronunciation is way different from "lynn-ucks", probably because your
> English-speaking mouths can't pronounce the sounds easily. (I think I
> only noticed because of the linguistics classes I have taken.) If
> everyone starts pronouncing it that way, I'll do it too, but until
> then, y'all can bite me. Lye-nucks all the way baby.
>
Well, I think you'd have to be quite deaf not to notice that the Swedish
pronunciation of word X differs fundamentally from even the closest
American English approximation. Which is precisely why the whole debate
is a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
--
There is no sig.
Ewan Dunbar
dun...@golden.net
Ewan Dunbar
> So the question is not whether Americans will pronounce "Linux" with a
> Swedish accent. That just isn't going to happen, and there is nothing
> you or I or Linus can do about it. The question is which of two
> competing English pronunciations will win out. I happen to prefer
> "Lie-nicks", rhyming with the name "Linus". I think this is makes
> better sense logically, and just sounds more natural to me as a native
> English speaker. Others prefer to rhyme it with "cynics", which I
> think is an awkward mistake, but then sometimes mistakes do take on a
> life of their own.
>
It has already. Most sources claiming to be "definitive" (which are
really only pedantic) say that the cynical pronunciation is Right and
the Peanuts pronunciation is Worng. This, I think, is a shame, because
it's perfectly illogical. And besides, to me, the Peanuts pronunciation sounds
more cool and high-tech, while the cynical pronunciation (which I've
unfortunately become used to hearing as "correct") sounds more soft and
university-like. It's subtle, and perhaps no one knows what I'm talking about.
After all, that's only the vibes the pronunciations give off to me...
Richard S. Hendershot
these words, I took MinimumUnix to be the expansion of Minix. So, the Min
got a soft 'i'.
Linux got the soft 'i' by association.... I didnt have a sound card in those
days....
-rsh
Ewan Dunbar <dun...@golden.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.10.100020...@smeg.dunbar.org...
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Dave Critelli
Oskar \"Beo\" Berggren wrote:
> "Daniel W. Erskine" wrote:
> >
> > L i L K O B I 2 2 wrote in message ...
> > > Ok. I know this sounds as weird as hell but bare with me. My friend and
> > >I are having an arguement as to how to pronounce Linux. I know. Odd.
> > >But I don't care. Maybe some of you know.
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >Dan.
> > >http://go.to/lilkobi/
> >
> > Greetings:
> > How do you pronounce TOMATO??? Same difference, IMHO :)
> >
> > Daniel W. Erskine
> > mailto:ersk...@gte.net
>
> I don't agree. Although one could look att 'tomato' as the NAME of a
> plant, it
> is treated like a word. At least IMO it's more important to pronounce a
> name
> as equally as possible between and within languages than a word.
>
> /Beo
It's not really important how you say the word _tomato_ as long as your
understood - right?
Well - unless your a purist. For me, plain vanilla works.
DC
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
>
> In article <3898AF40...@NOSPAM.dtek.chalmers.se>,
> Oskar \"Beo\" Berggren <d99...@NOSPAM.dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
> >
> >Linux should be pronounced as Linux, not leyenux.
> >I think one can say that the i should be longer than in
> >for example 'pitch' but not as long as in 'heel'.
> >
> >On www.linux.org, click on 'More' next to 'What is
> >Linux?'. Scroll down to the links. You will find
> >'How to Pronounce "Linux"', which is a .au file
> >of Linus Torvalds pronouncing it (in Swedish, there
> >is also an english version, although the name 'Linux'
> >is of course the same in both).
> >
> >Another thing you can do is learn Swedish :-). Assuming you do it
> >good it should become clear then, as in Swedish an i is always
> >pronounced as in 'pit' or as in 'heel'. That is, Swedish
> >doesn't have the 'eye' form of i.
>
> an English speaker (unless he's the sort of affected language snob who
> tries to pronounce the names of foreign cities the same way the locals
> do). We want "Linux" to become a commonly used word in English, don't
> we? :-) As such it has to be naturalized to use standard English
> vowels sounds. I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with
> the name "Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish). Others prefer
> to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or the other, but I
> certainly don't think it's a good idea to demand that millions of
> English speakers to try to approximate a non-English pronunciation!
> John Brock
> jbr...@panix.com
Of course there will be a difference in pronounciation from language to
language, especially in sloppy day-to-day talk, but it should be kept as
close as possible
to the original, which in this case happens to be Swedish/Finnish.
Besides, the Swedish way shouldn't be that hard to approximate. Take the
ea from 'lean' and the u from 'full'
and there you have it.
/Beo
Daniel W. Erskine
<389CBDA4...@NOSPAM.dtek.chalmers.se>...
>"Daniel W. Erskine" wrote:
>> Greetings:
>> How do you pronounce TOMATO??? Same difference, IMHO :)
>>
>> Daniel W. Erskine
>> mailto:ersk...@gte.net
>
>I don't agree. Although one could look att 'tomato' as the NAME of a
>plant, it
>is treated like a word. At least IMO it's more important to pronounce a
>name
>as equally as possible between and within languages than a word.
>
>/Beo
Greetings:
Interestingly enough, which culture has decidedly the correct answer?
That's not for me to judge, nor anyone else for that matter (IMHO).
Go figure ;)
Daniel W. Erskine
>Oskar \"Beo\" Berggren wrote:
>> I don't agree. Although one could look att 'tomato' as the NAME of a
>> plant, it
>> is treated like a word. At least IMO it's more important to pronounce a
>> name
>> as equally as possible between and within languages than a word.
>>
>> /Beo
>
>understood - right?
>Well - unless your a purist. For me, plain vanilla works.
>
>DC
Greetings:
I agree! Although, proper names (i.e. - a person's name) should
consistantly be the only exception. Barring any geographical derivitives ;)
Dowe Keller
> Well, I think you'd have to be quite deaf not to notice that the Swedish
> pronunciation of word X differs fundamentally from even the closest
> American English approximation. Which is precisely why the whole debate
> is a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
Well, as a non-deaf person I can assure you that hearing (or the lack
of) makes no difference. Its just a silly topic in the first place.
Not to mention a waste of bandwidth that could be utilized more
productively, like for a GNOME vs KDE flame war or something.
--
Dowe Keller
---
"And you put the prisoners head through the hole like so. Then you pull
the lever like so..."
last words of an anonymous guillotine salesman.
Marc D. Williams
>
>Correct: The anglicization of Linus's name and the behavior of English
> pronunciation would have it pronounced "Lie-nucks" (much as other
> words with the same pattern of vowel and consonants, like "sinus",
> "minus", "virus", etc.)
>
always follow grammatical rules (the below stuff).
>Misinformed: For no reason whatsoever, some people believe that
> "Lynn-ucks" is the proper pronunciation. They have never expressed
> a linguistic reason why this should be. ("it rhymes with cynics!"
> is their cry, ignoring that the vowels in "cynics" have nothing to
> do with the vowels in "linux"). They ignore that Linus pronounces
> his own name as "Lean-us" not "Lynn-us". They ignore that with a
> single consonant after a vowel, the vowel is long not short in
> English (wasn't this something we learned in like 3rd grade, along
> with the "when two vowels go a'walkin, the first does the talking?"
> and silent e rules?)
>
Read on.
*****
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Linux
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:43:30 +0000, <vhi...@blackhawk.nrl.navy.mil> wrote:
>
>See, the cool thing about it is that you can say it anyway you want!!
>Linux is _that_ configurable and accommodating! You can even use the Vendor
>name if you want... Linux admins and users are so flexible that it really
>does not matter.
>
>:)
>Steve - RH Linux User wrote:
>
Heh, I suppose one could. Doesn't make it any less incorrect though.
Windows can be wine-dose
DOS can be like the spanish `2'
Geos can be gay-ose
OS/2 can be [Wizard of] OZ/2
etc. etc.
The local paper, when doing a story about Red Hat's IP, threw in the
pronunciation as LINN-ucks.
Well, here's something from my May 1992 issue of UNIX User (special
Linux issue).
<begin>
QUESTION: What is the proper pronunciation for ``Linux''?
ANSWER: (Linus himself) `li' is pronounced with a short [ee] sound:
compare prInt, mInImal etc. `nux' is also short, non-dipthong, like in
pUt. It's partly due to minix: linux was just my working name for the
thing, and as I wrote it to replace minix on my system, the result is
what it is... linus' minix became linux.
I originally intended it to be called freax (although buggix was one
contender after I got fed up with some of the more persistent bugs :)
and I think the kernel makefiles up to version 0.11 had something to
that effect (``Makefile for the freax kernel'') in a comment.
But arl called the linux directory at nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux,
and the name stuck. Maybe just as well: freax doesn't sound too good
either (freax is obviously free+freak+plus the obligatory -x).
<end>
*****
Forrest Taylor
What are you talking about? Millions of English speakers approximate
non-English pronunciation all of the time. Look at lasagna, jalapeno,
deja vu, etc., etc. Or even million. Do you say mil--lion (like the
animal)? Why not say it like he does?
Forrest
John Brock
>What are you talking about? Millions of English speakers approximate
>non-English pronunciation all of the time. Look at lasagna, jalapeno,
>deja vu, etc., etc. Or even million. Do you say mil--lion (like the
>animal)? Why not say it like he does?
Because it just isn't going to happen. The typical way that English
assimilates a word is to create a new word that *approximates* the
original pronunciation but in fact follows standard English
pronunciation. All of the examples you gave, when I use them or when I
hear other English speakers use them, use standard English consonants
and vowels and word patterns, and have in fact become normal English
words. What is *not* going to happen is people saying "LEAN-ooks"
(which breaks a rule about how English treats unstressed syllables), or
use an "i" sound which is "half way between a long i and a short i" (as
I believe someone suggested earlier in this thread). The word "Linux"
*will* end up being pronounced in a way which is comfortable for
English speakers, just like the examples you listed above.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Urchin
rambling discussion about how English grammar and pronunciation rules come
into play (because honestly, when we see a new word we don't roll through
the laws of English to determine how to say it), has anyone considered that
to someone speaking English, LeeNooks just sounds goofy? It's cumbersome,
and sounds like one of those things a two year old blurts out while looking
for it's passifier. To someone speaking a different language, that
combination of sounds might be absolutely normal - but in English, it's just
odd.
I think Lynn-ucks (the way I prefer to pronounce it) simply comes from
looking at the pronunciation of minix, and throwing an "L" at the front. To
my knowledge, minix is not pronounced MeeNooks.
Line-ucks on the other hand, simply comes from an assumption based on taking
a glance at the word itself. It looks like it ought to be pronounced
line-ucks based on how English speaking people learned to associate letters
with sound. I guarantee the first time any English speaking person looks at
that word Linux, it *will* be pronounced line-ucks.
It's only after learning the origins of Linux that I changed my
pronunciation to reflect that.
Does it matter? Nope.
Urchin
John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:87qj8l$42d$1...@panix.com...
Lucas
as I'm concerned it is derived from the founder's name Linus (Torvalds).
In English this is pronounced /'lai - nes/
Basurero
John Brock
>Boy you guys know way too much about linguistics. Without going into a
>rambling discussion about how English grammar and pronunciation rules come
>into play (because honestly, when we see a new word we don't roll through
>the laws of English to determine how to say it), has anyone considered that
>to someone speaking English, LeeNooks just sounds goofy? It's cumbersome,
>and sounds like one of those things a two year old blurts out while looking
>for it's passifier. To someone speaking a different language, that
>combination of sounds might be absolutely normal - but in English, it's just
>odd.
But you are saying exactly the same thing I was saying. The reason
LeeNooks sounds goofy to English speakers is precisely *because* it
breaks English pronunciation rules. We *do* roll through the "laws of
English" every time we speak it; we just don't do it consciously.
>I think Lynn-ucks (the way I prefer to pronounce it) simply comes from
>looking at the pronunciation of minix, and throwing an "L" at the front. To
>my knowledge, minix is not pronounced MeeNooks.
Lynn-ucks is certainly workable in English.
>Line-ucks on the other hand, simply comes from an assumption based on taking
>a glance at the word itself. It looks like it ought to be pronounced
>line-ucks based on how English speaking people learned to associate letters
>with sound. I guarantee the first time any English speaking person looks at
>that word Linux, it *will* be pronounced line-ucks.
Given that most people first learn about Linux by reading about it I
think this is a fairly big advantage...
>It's only after learning the origins of Linux that I changed my
>pronunciation to reflect that.
.... because you don't *have* to change your pronunciation from your
first impression. The easier we can make things the better, and I
think that includes pronunciation.
>Does it matter? Nope.
I think it does matter a little. Linux represents a whole new
computing paradigm, and for many people this is already going out on a
limb. The fact that there is uncertainty about the way "Linux" is
pronounced has to add to the discomfort, at least a little bit.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Urchin
> In article <87vcn...@enews4.newsguy.com>, Urchin <urc...@skidrow.com>
wrote:
> >Boy you guys know way too much about linguistics. Without going into a
> >rambling discussion about how English grammar and pronunciation rules
come
> >into play (because honestly, when we see a new word we don't roll through
> >the laws of English to determine how to say it), has anyone considered
that
> >to someone speaking English, LeeNooks just sounds goofy? It's
cumbersome,
> >and sounds like one of those things a two year old blurts out while
looking
> >for it's passifier. To someone speaking a different language, that
> >combination of sounds might be absolutely normal - but in English, it's
just
> >odd.
>
> But you are saying exactly the same thing I was saying. The reason
> LeeNooks sounds goofy to English speakers is precisely *because* it
> breaks English pronunciation rules. We *do* roll through the "laws of
> English" every time we speak it; we just don't do it consciously.
>
Well stated points sir. Yes, my reply is, in retrospect, a reiteration of
your earlier post. I just broke it down into layman's terms. Generally
when people start talking about the complexities and rules of a speech
pattern or language; rolling out phrases like "breaks English pronunciation
rules", they also start to lose the listening audience. You obviously know
a tremendous amount about the subject, something I admire - but like people
who are gifted with a great deal of knowledge on a given subject, you lost
sight of what the listening (or reading in this case) audience is looking
for. The original poster (I'm quite sure) was looking for a simple phonetic
breakdown, and instead got the entire hooked on phonics box set. I'm not
trying to start a flame, so don't misinterpret - your points are very
explicit, and very intelligent. I just believe strongly in explaining
things to people in the easiest, most understandable manner possible to
avoid confusion. At least at first go around.
> >I think Lynn-ucks (the way I prefer to pronounce it) simply comes from
> >looking at the pronunciation of minix, and throwing an "L" at the front.
To
> >my knowledge, minix is not pronounced MeeNooks.
>
> Lynn-ucks is certainly workable in English.
>
> >Line-ucks on the other hand, simply comes from an assumption based on
taking
> >a glance at the word itself. It looks like it ought to be pronounced
> >line-ucks based on how English speaking people learned to associate
letters
> >with sound. I guarantee the first time any English speaking person looks
at
> >that word Linux, it *will* be pronounced line-ucks.
>
> Given that most people first learn about Linux by reading about it I
> think this is a fairly big advantage...
>
> >It's only after learning the origins of Linux that I changed my
> >pronunciation to reflect that.
>
> .... because you don't *have* to change your pronunciation from your
> first impression. The easier we can make things the better, and I
> think that includes pronunciation.
>
I concede here. A standard pronunciation would be preferable.
Unfortunately, the only way to standardize the pronunciation is to get the
creator, and the media, to decide and publish a fixed definition that
doesn't sound nuts. That (also quite unfortunately) does not include the
actual pronunciation. This means Linus would have to break down and alter
his own pronunciation (highly unlikely), since LeeNooks just isn't going to
happen (unless the spelling was changed). Since I think everyone can accept
Linus won't be changing the pronunciation of his baby, we're all left to our
own methods for pronouncing it. Eventually, provided market share grows
significantly, enough people will be bouncing the word around that a
standard pronunciation will emerge. It is in our nature to *not* sound
abnormal to those around us - so we tend to adopt whatever local variant
emerges. As that local area grows, a new global standard emerges. Based on
your statement that most people first read about Linux, I would guess
Line-ucks will come out on top. Eventually.
> >Does it matter? Nope.
>
> I think it does matter a little. Linux represents a whole new
> computing paradigm, and for many people this is already going out on a
> limb. The fact that there is uncertainty about the way "Linux" is
> pronounced has to add to the discomfort, at least a little bit.
> --
All I can say on this point is that in a room of diversified people, an odd
pronunciation (be it Line-ucks, Lynn-ucks, or LeeNooks) will generally be
overlooked. Most people you would engage in conversation about OS's with
will accept any of the three pronunciations without pause. It's not as if
any of the pronunciations will be confused with another product. Even the
average Joe on the couch watching the news is comfortable with any of the
three. He'll default by nature to the one he hears first, and will change
if someone he considers more knowledgable than the evening anchor tells him
differently. We're looking at a "bubbler" vs "water fountain", "pop" vs
"soda" argument here. If a person from the midwest asks someone on the West
coast for a "soda", it may sound odd, but is generally acceptable. We are
used to dealing with a variety of words and pronunciations that mean the
same thing, and I don't think people blink at confusion over this one. We
stumbled through "rendezvous" as a people, we'll pull through this one as
well.
As for trepidation based on the pronunciation, I think the only people put
on edge about Linux based on this topic are those that post a linux
newsgroup asking how to pronounce it. It sounds like a good idea I admit
(surely the linux users must know), but you'll never come away with a
reasonable answer. I'm sure the original poster, while entertained, still
has no idea how to pronounce the word. But at lease he/she can gain comfort
in the fact that nobody else has settled on a pronunciation either.
For the record, and despite my own now habitual pronunciation, I say go with
your first instinct (most likely Line-ucks). If your friends disagree,
they'll come around. And then their friends, and their friends, etc.
John - sorry if I seemed out of line. The intent was not to derail you in
any way. I'm just bored as hell right now, and this is an interesting
topic.
Urchin
> John Brock
> jbr...@panix.com
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
>
> Boy you guys know way too much about linguistics. Without going into a
> rambling discussion about how English grammar and pronunciation rules come
> into play (because honestly, when we see a new word we don't roll through
> the laws of English to determine how to say it), has anyone considered that
> to someone speaking English, LeeNooks just sounds goofy? It's cumbersome,
> and sounds like one of those things a two year old blurts out while looking
> for it's passifier. To someone speaking a different language, that
> combination of sounds might be absolutely normal - but in English, it's just
> odd.
>
> looking at the pronunciation of minix, and throwing an "L" at the front. To
> my knowledge, minix is not pronounced MeeNooks.
>
No, but then again, it's not spellt the same way either. And as someone
else
pointed out I think it comes more from Linus than from Minix.
> Line-ucks on the other hand, simply comes from an assumption based on taking
> a glance at the word itself. It looks like it ought to be pronounced
> line-ucks based on how English speaking people learned to associate letters
> with sound. I guarantee the first time any English speaking person looks at
> that word Linux, it *will* be pronounced line-ucks.
>
As a Swede I don't fully understand this. If someone more familiar [than
me]
with the finer grains of why Linux become Line-ucks while 'linger',
'link',
'linseed', 'lintel' and 'list' (just some words I found on the same page
in my dictionary) does not I would be grateful.
/Beo
> It's only after learning the origins of Linux that I changed my
> pronunciation to reflect that.
>
> Does it matter? Nope.
>
> Urchin
>
> John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote in message
John Carroll
so, but before it does let me get in my two cents about why I hate the
way the pronunciation current is going. First of all, I figure the
natives have the right to pronounce a word in the way that's most
comfortable for them. When I lived in Central America, everybody called
me Yoan Caro because John Carroll was unpronounceable to them. In the
U.S. we have a traditional way of pronouncing Linus, as in Linus from
Peanuts or Linus Pauling who collected Nobel Prizes. So for me it was
natural that since Mr. Torvalds' first name was Linus and the operating
system he founded was named after him (Linux, in case you hadn't
guessed) we native English speakers ought to pronounce Linux as if it
were Linus with the s replaced by an x. That is, we'd naturally
pronounce Linux with a long i. But the language nuts got ahold of the
thing and told the reporters the true pronunciation was linux with a
short i, and now the TV and radio guys pronounce it that way, whether or
not they know how it works or what it does. And since the general
population mostly learns about Linux from the media, we're all going to
have to pronounce it with a short i or look stupid. I've been using the
long i for five years now, but the game is lost. Now we'll all have to
pronounce it the way the radio and tv reporters do. Such is the
evolution of language in our times.
John Carroll (pr Yoan Caro)
brian moore
Oskar \"Beo\" Berggren <d99...@NOSPAM.dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>
> No, but then again, it's not spellt the same way either. And as someone
> else
> pointed out I think it comes more from Linus than from Minix.
I agree on that. It's not 'linix' after all. :)
>
> > Line-ucks on the other hand, simply comes from an assumption based on taking
> > a glance at the word itself. It looks like it ought to be pronounced
> > line-ucks based on how English speaking people learned to associate letters
> > with sound. I guarantee the first time any English speaking person looks at
> > that word Linux, it *will* be pronounced line-ucks.
> >
>
> As a Swede I don't fully understand this. If someone more familiar [than
> me]
> with the finer grains of why Linux become Line-ucks while 'linger',
> 'link',
> 'linseed', 'lintel' and 'list' (just some words I found on the same page
> in my dictionary) does not I would be grateful.
Like 'linux' (the "right" way, anyway :)): virus, sinus, minus
Or with a different vowel (but likewise long): redux, Jesus, lemur
or even Peter or penal.
The first vowel is made long because of the second vowel. But that all
changes when there are two consonants... that sucks the power away from
the vowel, 'cirrus', for example.
Your examples all have two consonants after the first i.
Of course, there are counter examples for everything since English
breaks its own rules all the time.
Marc D. Williams
isn't `lai - nes' there's no reason why we should change it just
because we speak English. You don't go around changing someone's name
because you want to. It could all get messy, y'know.
The late actor Toshiro Mifune becomes `To-shai-ro Mai-foone'?
The anime film Akira is pronounced `Akai-ra'?
I don't think so but a lot of you folks seem to use that reasoning here.
This is all so silly, really.
Secondly, Linux's pronounciation does come from minix. I'm not sure
what minix actually means but I _assume_ `mini unix' or something.
I will admit, I used to pronounce minix as `my-nix' for the longest
time only because I had never heard it pronounced before nor knew what
it meant exactly.
Here again is part of the post where Linus explains the pronunciation.
Should make it a frequent post, like a FAQ.
--- BEGIN ---
[snippage]
The local paper, when doing a story about Red Hat's IPO, threw in the
pronunciation as LINN-ucks.
Well, here's something from my May 1992 issue of UNIX User (special
Linux issue).
<begin>
QUESTION: What is the proper pronunciation for ``Linux''?
ANSWER: (Linus himself) `li' is pronounced with a short [ee] sound:
compare prInt, mInImal etc. `nux' is also short, non-dipthong, like in
pUt. It's partly due to minix: linux was just my working name for the
thing, and as I wrote it to replace minix on my system, the result is
what it is... linus' minix became linux.
I originally intended it to be called freax (although buggix was one
contender after I got fed up with some of the more persistent bugs :)
and I think the kernel makefiles up to version 0.11 had something to
that effect (``Makefile for the freax kernel'') in a comment.
But arl called the linux directory at nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux,
and the name stuck. Maybe just as well: freax doesn't sound too good
either (freax is obviously free+freak+plus the obligatory -x).
<end>
--- END ---
Now, if that doesn't explain it plainly enough this topic, nay argument,
will go on for the next decade.
BTW, the Linux FAQ, which is posted here regularly, has a section on
this topic (9.10). Not too different from the above.
--
>>ANIME SENSHI<<
Marc D. Williams
mar...@flash.net
http://www.oldskool.org/~tvdog/ -- DOS Internet & Tandy 1000
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Platform/8269/ -- Win3.x Makeover
John Brock
Marc D. Williams <mar...@flash.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:09:01 GMT, Lucas <basu...@jazzfree.com> wrote:
>>I don't agree with that Linux's pronounciation comes from minix. As far
>>as I'm concerned it is derived from the founder's name Linus (Torvalds).
>>In English this is pronounced /'lai - nes/
>GEEZ! Did my post not propagate or something. First off since his name
>isn't `lai - nes' there's no reason why we should change it just
>because we speak English. You don't go around changing someone's name
>because you want to. It could all get messy, y'know.
>The late actor Toshiro Mifune becomes `To-shai-ro Mai-foone'?
>The anime film Akira is pronounced `Akai-ra'?
>I don't think so but a lot of you folks seem to use that reasoning here.
>This is all so silly, really.
Apparently you haven't been thinking about any of the points that have
been made in the thread and are content merely to argue from authority
(the "argument from authority" being one of the classical logical
fallacies). It simply DOESN'T MATTER how Linus himself pronounces his
name. The name already exists in English, and therefore every native
English speaker will pronounce it the same as the Linus character in
the Peanuts strip. This is a done deal, and if you don't understand
why then you are simply clueless.
Unfamiliar foreign names are different. Because there is no existing
way to say a name people are forced to approximate it as best as they
can, according to their skill in imitating foreign pronunciations and
whether they think using a correct foreign pronunciation will make them
sound sophisticated or pretentious. This is a minor but awkward social
problem with no obvious solution, but it isn't relevant here, since
English speakers already know how to say "Linus".
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
jeff
"Unit 4" <Un...@SPUTUM.com> wrote in message
> I pronounse it BEEEP pshshshshshshst BONG BONG babeeeeeep PSSSSSSSSSSSS
> click CONNECT.
>
Grant Edwards
>>I think it makes more sense for "Linux" to rhyme with the name
>>"Linus" (as I believe is the case in Swedish).
Me too. We are, I fear, in the minority -- at least in the US.
>>Others prefer to rhyme it with "cynics". You can pick one or
>>the other, but I certainly don't think it's a good idea to
>>demand that millions of English speakers to try to approximate
>>a non-English pronunciation!
>
>So what? Should every country pronounce it different?
Sure, why not? I've been in countries where not only do they
pronounce things differently, they have completely different
words for _everything_! Seriously: pronounce in whatever
manner makes sense in language being spoken. Linus reportedly
pronounces it differently when he's speaking English than he
does when he's speaking Swedish.
The rules for pronunciation in English are vague and riddled
with exceptions, so pretty much anything goes. I pronounce it
so that it sounds almost exactly like "MangroveThroatWarbler".
;)
>Linus Torvalds invented Linux and has the trademark. So I would
>say that he has the right to tell us how to pronounce it.
Of course he has the right to tell us how to pronounce it. In
countries where free speach is guaranteed, _everybody_ has the
right to tell us how to pronounce it. And, we all have the
right to pronounce it however we want to. Last I heard, he
said that he didn't really care how it was prounounced, so it's
a bit of a moot point.
>You think it's better to pronounce it wrong because you are fom
>an english speaking country?
Aw, c'mon, German has plenty of words borrowed from English and
French that aren't pronounced anywhere close to the way they
are in their originating countries. I don't claim that they're
being pronounced incorrectly, and when speaking German (which I
do rather poorly, I admit) I pronounce them using the German
pronunciation. Perhaps the change in pronunciation of adopted
words annoys Fracophiles more than Anglophiles (probably so).
Language is pretty much a majority-rules type of thing. If the
overwhelming majority of English speakers pronounce it
"MangroveThroatWarbler", then that is how it is pronounced in
English.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! I'm out of
at work...I could go into
visi.com shock absorbers...or SCUBA
GEAR!!
Rolf Magnus
>>So what? Should every country pronounce it different?
>
>Sure, why not?
Because it makes it more difficult for people from different countries to
talk about it without a real benefit.
>I've been in countries where not only do they
>pronounce things differently, they have completely different
>words for _everything_!
What? No, that's impossible! ;-)
>The rules for pronunciation in English are vague and riddled
>with exceptions, so pretty much anything goes. I pronounce it
>so that it sounds almost exactly like "MangroveThroatWarbler".
You may be in big problems when talking so someone else about Linux... Hey,
I pronounce Windows like "F*ckingCrapNotWorthAnything" and everyone
understand what I mean :-)
>Of course he has the right to tell us how to pronounce it. In
>countries where free speach is guaranteed, _everybody_ has the
>right to tell us how to pronounce it.
Yes, and if no one understands you, it's your problem...
>And, we all have the
>right to pronounce it however we want to. Last I heard, he
>said that he didn't really care how it was prounounced, so it's
>a bit of a moot point.
Yes, ok. Perhaps my posting sounded a bit extreme, but I can't see what's
wrong about not having hundreds of different pronounciations for one and the
same word.
>Aw, c'mon, German has plenty of words borrowed from English and
>French that aren't pronounced anywhere close to the way they
>are in their originating countries.
Ok, but Linux is a name, like Windows, Beos, Chrysler, Intel, and there are
no big differences in Pronounciation of these names.
Rolf Magnus
Aulne
gamep...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have yet to hear even the pronunciation snobs among us pronounce it
> the way I heard Linus pronounce it in that sound clip. He pronounces
> it Leenoos Torvaalds, and Lee-nooks. No one seems to notice that his
> pronunciation is way different from "lynn-ucks", probably because your
> English-speaking mouths can't pronounce the sounds easily. (I think I
> only noticed because of the linguistics classes I have taken.) If
> everyone starts pronouncing it that way, I'll do it too, but until
> then, y'all can bite me. Lye-nucks all the way baby.
That's simply because the letter 'u' is pronounced 'oo' in quite a few
languages such as German for instance and maybe Finnish too as it seems. Or
was it Linus using the German way of saying it? ;-)
As for me and just about everyone around here, it's the French way. I don't
think there's a written equivalent to show it in English, but in German it'd
go like this: "Lienoeks" ('oe' to replace the umlauted 'o' that is.)
Salutations,
Alain
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Marc D. Williams
>
>Apparently you haven't been thinking about any of the points that have
>been made in the thread and are content merely to argue from authority
>(the "argument from authority" being one of the classical logical
>fallacies). It simply DOESN'T MATTER how Linus himself pronounces his
>name. The name already exists in English, and therefore every native
>English speaker will pronounce it the same as the Linus character in
>the Peanuts strip. This is a done deal, and if you don't understand
>why then you are simply clueless.
>
Well, first of all, I've always pronounced it Linn-ucks from day one
which had nothing to do with that little tidbit I posted.
Secondly, I am a native English speaker (born and raised in
Sunny Californ-eye-aye) and well aware of our pronunciation of Linus here.
However, I've also never pronounced Torvald's name that way because
I knew it wasn't pronounced that way and I also have no problem
applying `short' vowels to ``foreign'' words (as opposed to the long
vowels common in English). Comes with my interest in various foreign
languages I suppose.
Obviously a "that's just me" thing so the `every native English speaker'
should be `most...'.
I understand exactly what you're saying but
a) It hardly makes it a done deal.
b) I'm far from clueless here.
Another post here mentioned how we'll probably wind up pronouncing
Linux whatever way becomes standard with the media (short `i' so far).
They seem to have a habit of influencing folks it seems.
I'm even seeing the incorrect X-Windows (the offending `s') in computer
magazines now.
And of course we all pronounce gigabyte incorrectly apparently.[1]
Go with the flow and all that. So far we don't have a Linux flow yet. :-)
LINE-ucks for some, LINN-ucks for others.
Do with it what you will.
[1] "Incidently, the word is pronounced JIG-uh-byte, not GIG-uh-byte,
since it comes from the same root as giant and gigantic rather
than gargantuan."
DOS Power Tools, 1988
Note: FYI only. Don't anyone jump on me or anything about it. :-}
>Unfamiliar foreign names are different. Because there is no existing
>way to say a name people are forced to approximate it as best as they
>can, according to their skill in imitating foreign pronunciations and
>whether they think using a correct foreign pronunciation will make them
>sound sophisticated or pretentious. This is a minor but awkward social
>problem with no obvious solution, but it isn't relevant here, since
>English speakers already know how to say "Linus".
Definitely not the case here (for me that is) but I see what you mean.
brian moore
> [1] "Incidently, the word is pronounced JIG-uh-byte, not GIG-uh-byte,
> since it comes from the same root as giant and gigantic rather
> than gargantuan."
> DOS Power Tools, 1988
>
> Note: FYI only. Don't anyone jump on me or anything about it. :-}
'cept it is amazingly wrong.
Gigantic \Gi*gan"tic\, a. [L. gigas, -antis, giant. See
{Giant}.]
1. Of extraordinary size; like a giant.
'Gigas' is the Latin name of a giant, for sure. And that's how we got
the word 'Gigantic'.... but that's got nothing to do with the -GREEK-
root 'Giga'. (Kilo, mega, giga, etc, are all Greek roots.) 'G' in Greek
would be good old gamma, which has a very definite 'g' sound, not a 'j'
sound at all.
Whoever wrote the above book needs to do his homework.
(It would be equally wrong to claim that a podiatrist is someone who
has something to do with sea creatures...)
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
So if there are other exceptions then why can't Linux be an exception to
this rule as well?
/Beo
Marc D. Williams
And of course we all pronounce gigabyte incorrectly apparently.[1]
Go with the flow and all that. So far we don't have a Linux flow yet. :-)
LINE-ucks for some, LINN-ucks for others.
Do with it what you will.
[1] "Incidently, the word is pronounced JIG-uh-byte, not GIG-uh-byte,
since it comes from the same root as giant and gigantic rather
than gargantuan."
DOS Power Tools, 1988
Note: FYI only. Don't anyone jump on me or anything about it. :-}
>Unfamiliar foreign names are different. Because there is no existing
Oskar "Beo" Berggren
Aulne
Marc D. Williams
John Wingate
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:06:51 GMT,
> Marc D. Williams <mar...@flash.net> wrote:
>> [1] "Incidently, the word is pronounced JIG-uh-byte, not GIG-uh-byte,
>> since it comes from the same root as giant and gigantic rather
>> than gargantuan."
>> DOS Power Tools, 1988
>>
>> Note: FYI only. Don't anyone jump on me or anything about it. :-}
> 'cept it is amazingly wrong.
> Gigantic \Gi*gan"tic\, a. [L. gigas, -antis, giant. See
> {Giant}.]
> 1. Of extraordinary size; like a giant.
>
> 'Gigas' is the Latin name of a giant, for sure. And that's how we got
> the word 'Gigantic'.... but that's got nothing to do with the -GREEK-
> root 'Giga'.
Yes it does. Check the etymology in your dictionary. The Romans
borrowed the word from the Greeks. The prefix has the same origin;
you can check that too, and confirm that you are right when you say that
> (Kilo, mega, giga, etc, are all Greek roots.)
> 'G' in Greek would be good old gamma, which has a very definite 'g'
> sound, not a 'j' sound at all.
True but irrelevant to English pronunciation. I suppose you pronounce
"cyberspace" with a 'k' sound, not an 's' sound. (From Greek
"kubern-", from which, by way of Latin (again) we also get "govern".)
I'm not sure who bears the blame for dropping the 'n' in "cyber-".
I suspect Stanislaw Lem, but it may be Control Data Corp. I pronounce
"giga-" as in Marc's footnote. The hard 'g' pronunciation is only
lately getting into dictionaries. Many only give pronunciations with a
soft 'g', and some give preference to one[1] with 'i' pronounced as in
the English (not Swedish) pronunciation of "Linus".[2]
> Whoever wrote the above book needs to do his homework.
He's not the only one.
[1] I once read it was the officially-blessed pronunciation.
[2] Gotta get this thread back on topic. Guess how I pronounce "Linux". :-)
--
John Wingate If there is a God he must have
win...@worldpath.net an odd sense of humour.
--- Chaim Bermant
John Wingate
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 05:43:09 GMT,
> John Wingate <win...@worldpath.net> wrote:
>> brian moore <b...@news.cmc.net> wrote:
>> > 'Gigas' is the Latin name of a giant, for sure. And that's how we got
>> > the word 'Gigantic'.... but that's got nothing to do with the -GREEK-
>> > root 'Giga'.
>>
>> Yes it does. Check the etymology in your dictionary. The Romans
>> borrowed the word from the Greeks. The prefix has the same origin;
>> you can check that too, and confirm that you are right when you say that
>> > (Kilo, mega, giga, etc, are all Greek roots.)
> The word we use came directly from the Greek -- it did not go via Latin.
I wasn't saying that the metric prefix "giga" came by way of Latin,
but that you were correct in saying it came directly from Greek.
> (Nor did Kilo, Milli, Mega or the other prefixes.)
^^^^^
Oops. That one's from Latin. "Deca", "hecto", and "kilo" are from Greek;
"deci", "centi", and "milli" are from Latin. This neat scheme was spoiled
when "micro"--from Greek--was introduced.
>> > 'G' in Greek would be good old gamma, which has a very definite 'g'
>> > sound, not a 'j' sound at all.
>>
>> True but irrelevant to English pronunciation. I suppose you pronounce
>> "cyberspace" with a 'k' sound, not an 's' sound. (From Greek
>> "kubern-", from which, by way of Latin (again) we also get "govern".)
> You suspect wrong. 'cyber' was coined by Norbert Wiener in 1948, and
> was probably not from the Greek at all, but from the French
> 'cybernetique', or the art of governing.
Use the source. From the Introduction to _Cybernetics_ by Norbert Wiener
(published in 1948, as you say):
We have decided to call the entire field of control and
communication theory, whether in the machine or in the
animal, by the name _Cybernetics_, which we form from the
Greek _kybernetes_ [my transliteration from Wiener's
Greek] or _steersman_.
(Whether you transliterate upsilon as "u" or "y" here is a matter of
choice.)
>> [1] I once read it was the officially-blessed pronunciation.
> I once read that Bill Clinton never told a lie. That doesn't make it
> true. ("Officially blessed?" Jezzus fucking Christ, this ain't French
> with the language police... just -who- exactly "officially blesses"
> words? If you believe such a term could even be applied to English,
> you're showing a great misunderstanding of how English has evolved, and
> why it has become so popular.)
Do we need to have smileys on everything? That was tongue-in-cheek,
aimed at the pomposity of standards-promulgators. I don't care for
language police any more than you do. (Anyway, it's not the pronunciation
I use.)
>> [2] Gotta get this thread back on topic. Guess how I pronounce "Linux". :-)
> Like Linus, I don't care how you pronounce it.
On this we can agree. Pronounce it (and "giga") however you want to.
Grant Edwards
>Ok, but Linux is a name, like Windows, Beos, Chrysler, Intel, and there are
>no big differences in Pronounciation of these names.
I'm getting confused -- are we talking about people from
different countries using different pronunciation when speaking
English, or when speaking their native languages?
If the former, the ideal case would be that when speaking
language A, everybody pronounces word X the the same way. For
many words in English there are multiple accepted
pronunciations. For many English words of foreign origin, the
accepted English pronunciation isn't very close to the
original.
If we're talking about how people pronounce things in their
native languages, even the pronunciation of brand names
differ. English and German speakers differ on the
pronunciation of Addidas, BMW, Volkswagen, etc. I don't think
there's anything wrong with that.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I guess we can live
at on his POT FARM in HADES!!
visi.com
Dr. Joerg Marktanner
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:06:51 GMT, Marc D. Williams <mar...@flash.net> wrote:
> >
> >[1] "Incidently, the word is pronounced JIG-uh-byte, not GIG-uh-byte,
> > since it comes from the same root as giant and gigantic rather
> > than gargantuan."
> > DOS Power Tools, 1988
>
> giant and gigantic.
> Kilo, mega, giga...
>
Well, the only problem here is that both the words gigantic and giant
also have their roots in the Greek word giga. So, what now?
cheers
Joerg
Roni Choudhury
Rolf Magnus wrote:
>
> Grant Edwards wrote...
>
> >>So what? Should every country pronounce it different?
> >
> >Sure, why not?
>
> Because it makes it more difficult for people from different countries to
> talk about it without a real benefit.
>
I doubt there will be any difficulty. Americans say "Super Nintendo"
while Japanese say "Famicom"...no problems of understanding at all, or,
if there are, it's a matter of finding out they are the same thing. The
situation for the word "Linux" is even less severe than this.
>
> >Of course he has the right to tell us how to pronounce it. In
> >countries where free speach is guaranteed, _everybody_ has the
> >right to tell us how to pronounce it.
This is not really a matter of free speech...But the point is, it's no
sin if you pronounce it a bit differently, and as long as people know
what you're saying, no one cares.
> >And, we all have the
> >right to pronounce it however we want to. Last I heard, he
> >said that he didn't really care how it was prounounced, so it's
> >a bit of a moot point.
I suppose this really concludes the matter.
>
> Yes, ok. Perhaps my posting sounded a bit extreme, but I can't see what's
> wrong about not having hundreds of different pronounciations for one and the
> same word.
>
A bit of an exaggeration, in this case. I pronounce it "Linnucks", Mr.
Torvalds (in the famous audio clip) says "Lee-noox" (rhyming with his
name, "Leenoos"...the "oo" is a short vowel like the one in "oops!"),
and I've heard a friend of mine say "Lie-nucks" once and then never use
it again because we found said audio clip. So, there are two different
pronunciations, they are the American-English and Swedish variants of
the same word. When Linus says "Lee-noox" and I say "Linnucks," we are
saying the exact same word with respective accents.
> >Aw, c'mon, German has plenty of words borrowed from English and
> >French that aren't pronounced anywhere close to the way they
> >are in their originating countries.
>
> Ok, but Linux is a name, like Windows, Beos, Chrysler, Intel, and there are
> no big differences in Pronounciation of these names.
>
Linux is a name, but it's not a real word. "Windows" is an english
word...in my experience, people don't disagree about how to pronounce
the name of the glass thing in the wall that lets light through...thus,
there is one pronunciation of the name of the operating system. "Intel"
is associated with the word "intelligence," I imagine. Again, based on
an english word. Chrysler is a person's name, and it's one that is
easily pronounced in English. "Linux" is also based on a name, but the
name on which it is based is pronounced differently in Swedish than in
English. Because the actual man is Swedish, we run into problems
pronouncing the word "Linux." But who cares? People should pronounce
it however is most natural for their language. End of story.
roni
Brian
Many people pronounce MS Windows as WindBlows or WinDozes. These particular
pronuciations are not the result of race, creed, religion, monetary status
or place of birth.
I know of next door neighbours who have numerous conflicting verbal
descriptions for MS Windows, sometimes they don't even begin to resemble the
MS approved spelling; "Piece Of Sh_t" comes to mind.
Just one guy's opinion.
Best regards,
Brian
Roni Choudhury wrote in message <38B88592...@midway.uchicago.edu>...