Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Canonical dumps kubuntu?
11 views
Skip to first unread message
Rui Maciel
Feb 7, 2012, 7:09:46 AM2/7/12
to
From the kubuntu-devel mailing list:
Kubuntu Status
Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.
Post available at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
Looks like it's time to get the KDE fix from somewhere else.
Rui Maciel
Kubuntu Status
Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.
Post available at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
Looks like it's time to get the KDE fix from somewhere else.
Rui Maciel
Kenny McCormack
Feb 7, 2012, 7:19:12 AM2/7/12
to
In article <jgr4a8$mud$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,
What a shame!
A truly great loss to the planet.
--
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
~ Epicurus
Rui Maciel <rui.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>From the kubuntu-devel mailing list:
>
>Kubuntu Status
>
>Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
>funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
>Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
>Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
>infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
>as well.
Aw.....
>From the kubuntu-devel mailing list:
>
>Kubuntu Status
>
>Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
>funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
>Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
>Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
>infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
>as well.
What a shame!
A truly great loss to the planet.
--
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
~ Epicurus
J G Miller
Feb 7, 2012, 9:48:29 AM2/7/12
to
On Tuesday, February 7th, 2012, at 12:09:46h +0000, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
> funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04.
This is not at all in any way surprising.
> Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
> funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04.
There is no room at the corporate funding level for KDE
which is not Unity nor Wayland compatible, nor something
which you would use on a cellphone or small tablet, which
is what has become Canonical's primary objective for making money.
notbob
Feb 7, 2012, 10:06:15 AM2/7/12
to
On 2012-02-07, Kenny McCormack <gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> Aw.....
>
> What a shame!
>
> A truly great loss to the planet.
It's still better than that piece of crap, Unity, which is
> Aw.....
>
> What a shame!
>
> A truly great loss to the planet.
unintuitive, annoying, and unstable. Conanical may have the rube
masses conned, but it's a step backwards, in my experience.
nb
--
Fight internet CENSORSHIP - Fight SOPA-PIPA
Contact your congressman and/or representative, now!
http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/
vi --the heart of evil!
Rui Maciel
Feb 7, 2012, 11:18:57 AM2/7/12
to
J G Miller wrote:
> This is not at all in any way surprising.
>
> There is no room at the corporate funding level for KDE
> which is not Unity nor Wayland compatible, nor something
> which you would use on a cellphone or small tablet, which
> is what has become Canonical's primary objective for making money.
I don't know about the tablet bit, but I believe KDE is Wayland-compatible.
> This is not at all in any way surprising.
>
> There is no room at the corporate funding level for KDE
> which is not Unity nor Wayland compatible, nor something
> which you would use on a cellphone or small tablet, which
> is what has become Canonical's primary objective for making money.
http://community.kde.org/KWin/Wayland
Adding to this, it appears that Wayland claims to be backward compatible
with X11, and that Qt even supports switching between X11 and Wayland at
runtime.
Rui Maciel
J G Miller
Feb 7, 2012, 1:12:54 PM2/7/12
to
On Tuesday, February 7th, 2012, at 16:18:57h +0000, Rui Maciel wrote:
> I don't know about the tablet bit, but I believe KDE is
> Wayland-compatible.
Thanks for the correction.
> I don't know about the tablet bit, but I believe KDE is
> Wayland-compatible.
Nonetheless, a KDE desktop, even with all the plasma bling
does not look like a cell phone interface for which
Canonical is so obviously aiming.
In fact the theme community is one step ahead, and already
has developed the ultimate in dumbed down desktop appearance
and functionality.
No need to use a real keyboard, just the mouse and the
virtual on screen keyboard like on a cellphone.
<http://ubuntuportal.COM/pimp-your-ubuntu-gnome-shell-look-like-android-ice-cream-sandwich-1/>
TJ
Feb 7, 2012, 11:21:27 PM2/7/12
to
On 02/07/2012 07:09 AM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> From the kubuntu-devel mailing list:
>
> Kubuntu Status
>
*******
> From the kubuntu-devel mailing list:
>
> Kubuntu Status
>
>
>
> Looks like it's time to get the KDE fix from somewhere else.
>
>
>
Sounds like a good time to try Mageia 1. Unless you *like* all the
>
> Looks like it's time to get the KDE fix from somewhere else.
>
>
>
extraneous noise that comes along with a 'buntu.
TJ
Robert Riches
Feb 7, 2012, 11:23:38 PM2/7/12
to
--
Robert Riches
spamt...@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
Rui Maciel
Feb 8, 2012, 5:46:11 AM2/8/12
to
TJ wrote:
> Sounds like a good time to try Mageia 1. Unless you like all the
But regarding 'buntu, I've been a Kubuntu user since the 5.04 days and
recently I've been faced with the question on where to go from here. Truth
be told, KDE4 is still a mess and it doesn't appear that it will get any
better in the near future. On top of that, a while ago there was a
discussion on KDE's development mailing list where KDE developers admitted
that they simply ignore bugs and that they intentionally don't pay attention
to bug reports submitted by KDE users. So, with all this under
consideration, I'm inclined to replace both Kubuntu and KDE.
There is always a straw that breaks the camel's back. Considering there are
other distros out there, such as Debian, and other DEs out there, such as
Razor-Qt, maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at least for
this Kubuntu user.
Rui Maciel
> Sounds like a good time to try Mageia 1. Unless you like all the
> extraneous noise that comes along with a 'buntu.
I never heard of Mageia. Maybe I'll take a look.
But regarding 'buntu, I've been a Kubuntu user since the 5.04 days and
recently I've been faced with the question on where to go from here. Truth
be told, KDE4 is still a mess and it doesn't appear that it will get any
better in the near future. On top of that, a while ago there was a
discussion on KDE's development mailing list where KDE developers admitted
that they simply ignore bugs and that they intentionally don't pay attention
to bug reports submitted by KDE users. So, with all this under
consideration, I'm inclined to replace both Kubuntu and KDE.
There is always a straw that breaks the camel's back. Considering there are
other distros out there, such as Debian, and other DEs out there, such as
Razor-Qt, maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at least for
this Kubuntu user.
Rui Maciel
Aragorn
Feb 8, 2012, 7:39:57 AM2/8/12
to
On Wednesday 08 February 2012 11:46, Rui Maciel conveyed the following
to comp.os.linux.misc...
> TJ wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a good time to try Mageia 1. Unless you like all the
>> extraneous noise that comes along with a 'buntu.
>
> I never heard of Mageia. Maybe I'll take a look.
Mageia is a (still recent) fork of Mandriva. Due to several chief
developers at Mandriva having been laid off as a result of Mandriva's
corporate mismanagement and disgruntlement over said mismanagement among
their other developers, a great number of Mandriva's developers decided
on a kind of "mutiny" and chose to fork the distribution, so as to save
it from the corporate antics of Mandriva SA - which itself may or may
not being filing for bankruptcy any time soon; it's a pending issue.
Mageia 1 has the same look & feel as Mandriva 2010.1 and 2010.2 - Mageia
2 is already in beta stage right now and will be similar to Mandriva
2011.0 - and it is an entirely community-driven, not-for-profit
distribution. It's not perfect, but the Mageia developers are and have
been working very hard on ironing out the bugs.
> But regarding 'buntu, I've been a Kubuntu user since the 5.04 days and
> recently I've been faced with the question on where to go from here.
> Truth be told, KDE4 is still a mess and it doesn't appear that it will
> get any better in the near future.
I've never been one to compare KDE with Microsoft Windows - many feel
that it looks like that, but I don't agree - but I do have to admit that
in terms of complexity, start-up and exit times, and the chaotic
placement of temporary files, KDE 4 does begin to take on Windows-like
proportions.
One of the things that I also abhor is the way the Dolphin file manager
- what the hell was wrong with Konqueror as a file manager anyway? -
offers a volume-oriented approach to storage by showing all the
partitions, instead of just sticking to the logical and transparent UNIX
file hierarchy tree view.
And of course - but this is not new to KDE 4 - the KDE developers were
among the first to start referring to directories as "folders", "because
that's what Microsoft Windows calls them".
> On top of that, a while ago there was a discussion on KDE's
> development mailing list where KDE developers admitted that they
> simply ignore bugs and that they intentionally don't pay attention to
> bug reports submitted by KDE users.
I have heard this as well, and judging by some of KDE's antics which
have already been around for several 4.x releases and are still around
today - such as the fact that it creates a "write many times, but read
never" .config directory in the root directory - I'm inclined to believe
that.
[13:33:44][localhost:/home/aragorn]
[0][aragorn][$] > ll -A /.config
total 4
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 278 Feb 7 12:06 Trolltech.conf
You can delete it, but it gets restored every time. And it puzzles me
how that gets there, because it's obviously something with root
privileges that creates that directory.
Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
.config directory and the Trolltech.conf file are both root-owned. But
I am not using a display manager. I log in at a character mode console
and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is entirely
running under my UID.
> So, with all this under consideration, I'm inclined to replace both
> Kubuntu and KDE.
>
> There is always a straw that breaks the camel's back. Considering
> there are other distros out there, such as Debian, and other DEs out
> there, such as Razor-Qt, maybe this move by Canonical represents that
> straw, at least for this Kubuntu user.
There's also Trinity Desktop, which is a fork and continuation of KDE
3.5 - currently at version 3.5.13 already.
Personally, I like eye candy, and I've always felt that GTK+ was rather
ugly (and far less customizable) compared to Qt. However, if you like a
really nice looking graphical interface without sticking to Qt or GTK+,
there's always Enlightenment E17. Officially still beta, but it has
been beta for about a decade already, so that doesn't really say a lot.
;-)
On account of distributions that feature KDE, openSUSE is a very decent
distribution, and has contributed a lot to the improvement of KDE, even
from before KDE 4. It also has Trinity Desktop in its repositories (but
not on the install media), as well as all the other usual suspects, such
as Gnome 3, XFCE 4, WindowMaker, Enlightenment, FluxBox, et al.
In addition to that, openSUSE 12.1 comes with systemd as the init
replacement, but still offers you a (documented) way of removing it and
installing a traditional (but somewhat improved) System V init system.
--
= Aragorn =
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
to comp.os.linux.misc...
> TJ wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a good time to try Mageia 1. Unless you like all the
>> extraneous noise that comes along with a 'buntu.
>
> I never heard of Mageia. Maybe I'll take a look.
developers at Mandriva having been laid off as a result of Mandriva's
corporate mismanagement and disgruntlement over said mismanagement among
their other developers, a great number of Mandriva's developers decided
on a kind of "mutiny" and chose to fork the distribution, so as to save
it from the corporate antics of Mandriva SA - which itself may or may
not being filing for bankruptcy any time soon; it's a pending issue.
Mageia 1 has the same look & feel as Mandriva 2010.1 and 2010.2 - Mageia
2 is already in beta stage right now and will be similar to Mandriva
2011.0 - and it is an entirely community-driven, not-for-profit
distribution. It's not perfect, but the Mageia developers are and have
been working very hard on ironing out the bugs.
> But regarding 'buntu, I've been a Kubuntu user since the 5.04 days and
> recently I've been faced with the question on where to go from here.
> Truth be told, KDE4 is still a mess and it doesn't appear that it will
> get any better in the near future.
that it looks like that, but I don't agree - but I do have to admit that
in terms of complexity, start-up and exit times, and the chaotic
placement of temporary files, KDE 4 does begin to take on Windows-like
proportions.
One of the things that I also abhor is the way the Dolphin file manager
- what the hell was wrong with Konqueror as a file manager anyway? -
offers a volume-oriented approach to storage by showing all the
partitions, instead of just sticking to the logical and transparent UNIX
file hierarchy tree view.
And of course - but this is not new to KDE 4 - the KDE developers were
among the first to start referring to directories as "folders", "because
that's what Microsoft Windows calls them".
> On top of that, a while ago there was a discussion on KDE's
> development mailing list where KDE developers admitted that they
> simply ignore bugs and that they intentionally don't pay attention to
> bug reports submitted by KDE users.
have already been around for several 4.x releases and are still around
today - such as the fact that it creates a "write many times, but read
never" .config directory in the root directory - I'm inclined to believe
that.
[13:33:44][localhost:/home/aragorn]
[0][aragorn][$] > ll -A /.config
total 4
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 278 Feb 7 12:06 Trolltech.conf
You can delete it, but it gets restored every time. And it puzzles me
how that gets there, because it's obviously something with root
privileges that creates that directory.
Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
.config directory and the Trolltech.conf file are both root-owned. But
I am not using a display manager. I log in at a character mode console
and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is entirely
running under my UID.
> So, with all this under consideration, I'm inclined to replace both
> Kubuntu and KDE.
>
> There is always a straw that breaks the camel's back. Considering
> there are other distros out there, such as Debian, and other DEs out
> there, such as Razor-Qt, maybe this move by Canonical represents that
> straw, at least for this Kubuntu user.
3.5 - currently at version 3.5.13 already.
Personally, I like eye candy, and I've always felt that GTK+ was rather
ugly (and far less customizable) compared to Qt. However, if you like a
really nice looking graphical interface without sticking to Qt or GTK+,
there's always Enlightenment E17. Officially still beta, but it has
been beta for about a decade already, so that doesn't really say a lot.
;-)
On account of distributions that feature KDE, openSUSE is a very decent
distribution, and has contributed a lot to the improvement of KDE, even
from before KDE 4. It also has Trinity Desktop in its repositories (but
not on the install media), as well as all the other usual suspects, such
as Gnome 3, XFCE 4, WindowMaker, Enlightenment, FluxBox, et al.
In addition to that, openSUSE 12.1 comes with systemd as the init
replacement, but still offers you a (documented) way of removing it and
installing a traditional (but somewhat improved) System V init system.
--
= Aragorn =
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
J G Miller
Feb 8, 2012, 8:16:32 AM2/8/12
to
On Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, at 10:46:11h +0000, Rui Maciel explained:
> maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at
> least for this Kubuntu user.
If you hate doing updates every six months but would not
object to "service pack" updates or even daily updates,
you should take a look at Linux Mint Debian Edition.
If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly
KDE oriented then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
<http://frugalware.ORG/>
> maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at
> least for this Kubuntu user.
object to "service pack" updates or even daily updates,
you should take a look at Linux Mint Debian Edition.
If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly
KDE oriented then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
<http://frugalware.ORG/>
Michael Black
Feb 8, 2012, 8:16:37 AM2/8/12
to
Slackware.
Michael
J G Miller
Feb 8, 2012, 9:06:17 AM2/8/12
to
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:16:37 -0500, Michael Black wrote:
>> If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly KDE oriented
>> then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
>>
>> <http://frugalware.ORG/>
>>
> Well if we're going to go through the list, they might as well go to
> Slackware.
Are you suggesting that Frugalware Linux is inferior to Slackware?
>> If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly KDE oriented
>> then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
>>
>> <http://frugalware.ORG/>
>>
> Well if we're going to go through the list, they might as well go to
> Slackware.
Costas Krallis
Feb 8, 2012, 8:31:46 AM2/8/12
to
On 08/02/2012 02:39 μμ, Aragorn <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
> Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
> ..config directory and the Trolltech.conf file are both root-owned. But
> Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
> I am not using a display manager. I log in at a character mode console
> and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is entirely
> running under my UID.
Some set-user-id (SUID) process...
> and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is entirely
> running under my UID.
Costas
--
PGP/GPG key 0x07F2AAD0: available on keyservers
notbob
Feb 8, 2012, 9:14:16 AM2/8/12
to
On 2012-02-08, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
> Are you suggesting that Frugalware Linux is inferior to Slackware?
That would be my guess. Since I'M using Slackware and not Frugalware,
> Are you suggesting that Frugalware Linux is inferior to Slackware?
it can only be true. ;)
Aragorn
Feb 8, 2012, 10:52:58 AM2/8/12
to
On Wednesday 08 February 2012 14:31, Costas Krallis conveyed the
following to comp.os.linux.misc...
> On 08/02/2012 02:39 μμ, Aragorn <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
>> ..config directory and the Trolltech.conf file are both root-owned.
>> But I am not using a display manager. I log in at a character mode
>> console and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is
>> entirely running under my UID.
>
> Some set-user-id (SUID) process...
Hmm, no, it's not SUID, and KDE itself runs under my own UID, not
root's.
I suspect it's got to do with policykit, but I'm not exactly well-versed
on that. :-/
following to comp.os.linux.misc...
> On 08/02/2012 02:39 μμ, Aragorn <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Only a root-owned process can write to the root directory, and the
>> ..config directory and the Trolltech.conf file are both root-owned.
>> But I am not using a display manager. I log in at a character mode
>> console and start X11/KDE manually via "startx". So KDE itself is
>> entirely running under my UID.
>
> Some set-user-id (SUID) process...
root's.
I suspect it's got to do with policykit, but I'm not exactly well-versed
on that. :-/
Baho Utot
Feb 8, 2012, 10:45:24 AM2/8/12
to
I use Arch linux now and the Frugalware linux is very interesting and I will
need to have a look at it.
John Hasler
Feb 8, 2012, 11:43:08 AM2/8/12
to
J G Miller writes:
> Are you suggesting that Frugalware Linux is inferior to Slackware?
Slackware fans consider everything inferior to Slackware. They're
> Are you suggesting that Frugalware Linux is inferior to Slackware?
wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
--
John "PS: it's a _joke_" Hasler
jha...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Mark
Feb 8, 2012, 12:10:15 PM2/8/12
to
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
notbob
Feb 8, 2012, 2:57:59 PM2/8/12
to
On 2012-02-08, John Hasler <jha...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
With something as embarrassing as Ubuntu having evolved from Debian, I
> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
wouldn't be bragging too loudly. ;)
Feranija
Feb 8, 2012, 4:24:31 PM2/8/12
to
On 08/02/12 11:57, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-02-08, John Hasler<jha...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
>
> With something as embarrassing as Ubuntu having evolved from Debian, I
> wouldn't be bragging too loudly. ;)
Especially not bragging in nowadays situation when people who run
> On 2012-02-08, John Hasler<jha...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
>
> With something as embarrassing as Ubuntu having evolved from Debian, I
> wouldn't be bragging too loudly. ;)
Ubuntu, all over internet self-righteously exclaim Ubuntu _is_ Debian.
John Hasler
Feb 8, 2012, 4:53:43 PM2/8/12
to
I wrote:
> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
> wrong, of course: everything is inferior to Debian.
notbob wrote:
> With something as embarrassing as Ubuntu having evolved from Debian, I
> wouldn't be bragging too loudly.
Well. You know what it's like. The kids don't always turn out the way
> With something as embarrassing as Ubuntu having evolved from Debian, I
> wouldn't be bragging too loudly.
you want them to.
Feranija writes:
> Especially not bragging in nowadays situation when people who run
> Ubuntu, all over internet self-righteously exclaim Ubuntu _is_ Debian.
different country.
--
John Hasler
Michael Black
Feb 8, 2012, 10:50:44 PM2/8/12
to
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, J G Miller wrote:
the main ones always get mentioned, but ineveitably some of the unknowns
get mentioned too.
If I've heard of "Frugalware" before, I've never noticed.
That's the way it goes, people suggest what they use, which is why no
matter what someone asks, a reasonably long list always results. And
virtually nobody makes any real effort to justify their choice, often
because it is simply what they use.
Michael
Michael Black
Feb 8, 2012, 10:52:38 PM2/8/12
to
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, Mark wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:16:37 -0500, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, J G Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, at 10:46:11h +0000, Rui Maciel explained:
>>>
>>>> maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at
>>>> least for this Kubuntu user.
>>>
>>> If you hate doing updates every six months but would not
>>> object to "service pack" updates or even daily updates,
>>> you should take a look at Linux Mint Debian Edition.
>>>
>>> If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly
>>> KDE oriented then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
>>>
>>> <http://frugalware.ORG/>
>>>
>> Well if we're going to go through the list, they might as well go to
>> Slackware.
>
> Or gentoo?
Precisely.
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:16:37 -0500, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, J G Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, at 10:46:11h +0000, Rui Maciel explained:
>>>
>>>> maybe this move by Canonical represents that straw, at
>>>> least for this Kubuntu user.
>>>
>>> If you hate doing updates every six months but would not
>>> object to "service pack" updates or even daily updates,
>>> you should take a look at Linux Mint Debian Edition.
>>>
>>> If you want to keep to a distribution which is strongly
>>> KDE oriented then why not consider openSUSE or Frugalware Linux?
>>>
>>> <http://frugalware.ORG/>
>>>
>> Well if we're going to go through the list, they might as well go to
>> Slackware.
>
> Or gentoo?
Michael
notbob
Feb 8, 2012, 11:11:18 PM2/8/12
to
On 2012-02-09, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> I'm saying that anytime this comes up, "what distribution", not only do
> the main ones always get mentioned, but ineveitably some of the unknowns
> get mentioned too.
I've heard there are now over 800 distros of Linux. Fine by me. The
> I'm saying that anytime this comes up, "what distribution", not only do
> the main ones always get mentioned, but ineveitably some of the unknowns
> get mentioned too.
whole point is choice. I even have a Windows box. Like music, I
decided a long time ago what qualifies as "good". If someone likes
it, it's good!
J G Miller
Feb 10, 2012, 9:24:11 PM2/10/12
to
If you read what I read, I suggested either of those because they
are KDE-centric and that is what the original poster wants in a
distribution.
Michael Black
Feb 10, 2012, 11:40:38 PM2/10/12
to
longer includes Gnome, has to be fairly KDE-centric.
If "KDE-centric" is the only criteria here, then surely there are others
better known than Fruglaware.
If other criteria comes into play, then that may change the skew.
Michael
Kevin Snodgrass
Feb 13, 2012, 4:00:24 AM2/13/12
to
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:52:58 +0100, Aragorn wrote:
>> Some set-user-id (SUID) process...
>
> Hmm, no, it's not SUID, and KDE itself runs under my own UID, not
> root's.
$ ls -l /usr/bin/Xorg
>> Some set-user-id (SUID) process...
>
> Hmm, no, it's not SUID, and KDE itself runs under my own UID, not
> root's.
-rws--x--x. 1 root root 1953208 Sep 13 2010 /usr/bin/Xorg
$
Notice that the mode is 'rws' not 'rwx' ? That is SUID, the Xorg
executable will run as UID root.
Aragorn
Feb 13, 2012, 7:54:58 AM2/13/12
to
On Monday 13 February 2012 10:00, Kevin Snodgrass conveyed the following
to comp.os.linux.misc...
The X.Org executable, yes, but not the startkde executable. And it's
definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only one
file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but is never
actually read by KDE.
to comp.os.linux.misc...
definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only one
file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but is never
actually read by KDE.
David W. Hodgins
Feb 13, 2012, 2:10:07 PM2/13/12
to
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:54:58 -0500, Aragorn <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
> The X.Org executable, yes, but not the startkde executable. And it's
> definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only one
> file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but is never
> actually read by KDE.
One of the cases where the directory/file gets created is discussed in
> The X.Org executable, yes, but not the startkde executable. And it's
> definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only one
> file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but is never
> actually read by KDE.
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2719#c10 and
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1854#c4
Note that it's very inconsistent, which makes tracking down the cause
very difficult.
Identical installations, always with the same starting configurations,
on the same single core system, with the same rpm packages being installed
produce inconsistent results. One in 6 of the installs resulted in the
/.config directory being created.
There are clearly other cases where the directory gets created, as it
*sometimes* gets recreated on a reboot, but not always.
Without a consistent method of recreating the problem, it's very
difficult to figure out where the problem is. KDE, dbus, rpm file
triggers, udev, etc.
I remember one bug I found in an email system, where two parameters
were reversed in one call to a subroutine in a COBOL program. When
I dug through the code to see what kind of affect the reversal would
have, I found the cause of a bug that had been reported three times
in the prior 4 years, that no one could figure out how to reproduce.
The impact of the bug was that if a message was being forwarded to
another user, and an option was set requesting that the original
distribution list be kept, and the 20th letter of the subject was
a capital Y, then the option was ignored.
Given that the description of the problem was "Option was entered,
but ignored", which no one could figure out how to recreate, the
assumption had been PBKAC. Once the bug was found, simply by
noticing an error in the source code, while making other changes,
the bug was finally confirmed and fixed.
This was back in the early 80's, on a mainframe email system with
around 10,000 users.
I wouldn't be surprised if this one ends up being similar, where
some day, someone will look at the problem code, and realize that
something isn't quite right, and then trace the impact back to
this problem.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)
Aragorn
Feb 14, 2012, 4:17:06 AM2/14/12
to
On Monday 13 February 2012 20:10, David W. Hodgins conveyed the
following to comp.os.linux.misc...
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:54:58 -0500, Aragorn
> <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The X.Org executable, yes, but not the startkde executable. And it's
>> definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only
>> one file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but
>> is never actually read by KDE.
>
> One of the cases where the directory/file gets created is discussed in
> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2719#c10 and
> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1854#c4
Yes, and it has already been reported in other distributions as well,
e.g. openSUSE 12.1.
> Note that it's very inconsistent, which makes tracking down the cause
> very difficult.
Several sources have already stated that the KDE developers are aware of
the problem, but that they're simply marking a number of bug reports as
closed or fixed without actually addressing them.
> Identical installations, always with the same starting configurations,
> on the same single core system, with the same rpm packages being
> installed produce inconsistent results. One in 6 of the installs
> resulted in the /.config directory being created.
>
> There are clearly other cases where the directory gets created, as it
> *sometimes* gets recreated on a reboot, but not always.
Well, I don't know what creates it or when it gets created. I delete it
every day - along with a file "dead.letter" in the root directory which
gets created by msec every night - but it always returns the next day.
I don't use any of the KDE "superuser tools" or change any of the
superuser settings. If I need root privileges, I'll use either "su" or
"sudo" in a terminal window.
It is indeed, as you say, inconsistent, and bizarre.
> Without a consistent method of recreating the problem, it's very
> difficult to figure out where the problem is. KDE, dbus, rpm file
> triggers, udev, etc.
Hmm... I am going to run a test for a moment... I've just plugged my
Samsung Galaxy S2 phone into a USB socket - I do that every day to
charge my phone's battery, as it's more convenient than having to hunt
for an available wall power socket - because you mentioned udev. But
no, that isn't it. I've removed the directory before I plugged in the
phone, and it hasn't been recreated yet. So I think we can rule out
udev.
I also don't think it's triggered from within an .rpm, because I haven't
downloaded and installed any updates in a few days. I did remove three
packages - as you probably already know from being CC'd on the bugreport
on another Mageia issue (the cause of which has now been discovered) -
but that was on Sunday.
dbus... Hmm... I'm not exactly aware on the inner workings of dbus, but
I suppose that polkit or something other could be misusing dbus to
generate an escalation of privileges. Or perhaps better put, that
there's a privilege escalation leak somewhere in dbus.
> I remember one bug I found in an email system, where two parameters
> were reversed in one call to a subroutine in a COBOL program.
COBOL... Been there, done that. :p
> When I dug through the code to see what kind of affect the reversal
> would have, I found the cause of a bug that had been reported three
> times in the prior 4 years, that no one could figure out how to
> reproduce.
>
> The impact of the bug was that if a message was being forwarded to
> another user, and an option was set requesting that the original
> distribution list be kept, and the 20th letter of the subject was
> a capital Y, then the option was ignored.
That's one bizarre bug! :-)
> Given that the description of the problem was "Option was entered,
> but ignored", which no one could figure out how to recreate, the
> assumption had been PBKAC. Once the bug was found, simply by
> noticing an error in the source code, while making other changes,
> the bug was finally confirmed and fixed.
>
> This was back in the early 80's, on a mainframe email system with
> around 10,000 users.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if this one ends up being similar, where
> some day, someone will look at the problem code, and realize that
> something isn't quite right, and then trace the impact back to
> this problem.
Maybe, but this bug has been reported quite a few times more than just
three or four instances, and it has - at least, insofar as I know - been
around since at least KDE 4.6.3, and across multiple distributions - I
wouldn't be surprised if PCLinuxOS and Mandriva suffer the same bug -
and upstream has been informed about it, but doesn't seem to care too
much about fixing it.
following to comp.os.linux.misc...
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:54:58 -0500, Aragorn
> <str...@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The X.Org executable, yes, but not the startkde executable. And it's
>> definitely a KDE thing, because that .config directory contains only
>> one file, i.e. Trolltech.conf, which has KDE/Qt settings in it, but
>> is never actually read by KDE.
>
> One of the cases where the directory/file gets created is discussed in
> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2719#c10 and
> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1854#c4
e.g. openSUSE 12.1.
> Note that it's very inconsistent, which makes tracking down the cause
> very difficult.
the problem, but that they're simply marking a number of bug reports as
closed or fixed without actually addressing them.
> Identical installations, always with the same starting configurations,
> on the same single core system, with the same rpm packages being
> installed produce inconsistent results. One in 6 of the installs
> resulted in the /.config directory being created.
>
> There are clearly other cases where the directory gets created, as it
> *sometimes* gets recreated on a reboot, but not always.
every day - along with a file "dead.letter" in the root directory which
gets created by msec every night - but it always returns the next day.
I don't use any of the KDE "superuser tools" or change any of the
superuser settings. If I need root privileges, I'll use either "su" or
"sudo" in a terminal window.
It is indeed, as you say, inconsistent, and bizarre.
> Without a consistent method of recreating the problem, it's very
> difficult to figure out where the problem is. KDE, dbus, rpm file
> triggers, udev, etc.
Samsung Galaxy S2 phone into a USB socket - I do that every day to
charge my phone's battery, as it's more convenient than having to hunt
for an available wall power socket - because you mentioned udev. But
no, that isn't it. I've removed the directory before I plugged in the
phone, and it hasn't been recreated yet. So I think we can rule out
udev.
I also don't think it's triggered from within an .rpm, because I haven't
downloaded and installed any updates in a few days. I did remove three
packages - as you probably already know from being CC'd on the bugreport
on another Mageia issue (the cause of which has now been discovered) -
but that was on Sunday.
dbus... Hmm... I'm not exactly aware on the inner workings of dbus, but
I suppose that polkit or something other could be misusing dbus to
generate an escalation of privileges. Or perhaps better put, that
there's a privilege escalation leak somewhere in dbus.
> I remember one bug I found in an email system, where two parameters
> were reversed in one call to a subroutine in a COBOL program.
> When I dug through the code to see what kind of affect the reversal
> would have, I found the cause of a bug that had been reported three
> times in the prior 4 years, that no one could figure out how to
> reproduce.
>
> The impact of the bug was that if a message was being forwarded to
> another user, and an option was set requesting that the original
> distribution list be kept, and the 20th letter of the subject was
> a capital Y, then the option was ignored.
> Given that the description of the problem was "Option was entered,
> but ignored", which no one could figure out how to recreate, the
> assumption had been PBKAC. Once the bug was found, simply by
> noticing an error in the source code, while making other changes,
> the bug was finally confirmed and fixed.
>
> This was back in the early 80's, on a mainframe email system with
> around 10,000 users.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if this one ends up being similar, where
> some day, someone will look at the problem code, and realize that
> something isn't quite right, and then trace the impact back to
> this problem.
three or four instances, and it has - at least, insofar as I know - been
around since at least KDE 4.6.3, and across multiple distributions - I
wouldn't be surprised if PCLinuxOS and Mandriva suffer the same bug -
and upstream has been informed about it, but doesn't seem to care too
much about fixing it.
Anonymous Remailer (austria)
Feb 14, 2012, 8:36:07 AM2/14/12
to
Aragorn <stry...@telenet.be.invalid> [A]:
A> I don't know what creates it or when it gets created.
A> I delete it every day - along with a file "dead.letter" in the
A> root directory which gets created by msec every night - but it
A> always returns the next day.
Assuming that you don't mind getting your hands really dirty and that
tracking down the problem is worth your resources, inotify might be helpful.
(http://www.infoq.com/articles/inotify-linux-file-system-event-monitoring)
If that leads you nowhere, start kde and its application under strace,
or use a file operations system calls wrapper...
Aragorn
Feb 14, 2012, 12:09:39 PM2/14/12
to
On Tuesday 14 February 2012 14:36, Anonymous Remailer (austria) conveyed
the following to comp.os.linux.misc...
I'll take a look at inotify later - thanks for the tip. I think I might
have the inotify tools package installed. Meanwhile I have discovered
that the directory gets created when I start KDE. (I don't use a
display manager; I start X manually via "startx".)
But either way, we are being impolite, because I seem to have hijacked
the thread. That was not my intention, so I apologize to the OP. ;-)
the following to comp.os.linux.misc...
have the inotify tools package installed. Meanwhile I have discovered
that the directory gets created when I start KDE. (I don't use a
display manager; I start X manually via "startx".)
But either way, we are being impolite, because I seem to have hijacked
the thread. That was not my intention, so I apologize to the OP. ;-)
0 new messages