Best Linux for installing upgrades
BarryNL
What is the best Linux version for making upgrades/new versions of software
easy to install. I have RedHat installed, which is great when they actually
get round to building a new RPM but when you want to install an update from
source (eg. KDE 3.1beta) all the paths used by 'make install' are different
from those used by RedHat (eg. /usr/bin/konqueror instead of
/usr/local/kde/bin/konqueror). Is there a version of Linux which makes
installing updates a bit easier without having to move files around
manually?
Regards, Barry.
Madhusudan Singh
following in comp.os.linux.misc (<amg2vh$ksv$1...@news1.xs4all.nl>) :
I have heard great things about apt-get on Debian / Gentoo / Connectiva.
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mjt
> What is the best Linux version for making upgrades/new versions of software
> easy to install.
... depending on your level of technical prowess - debian for the
"less-inclined to be techie" or gentoo for those that enjoy getting
thier hands dirty.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, # Black holes result
skydiver, and author: "Inside Linux", # when God divides the
"C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" # universe by zero
Otto Parts
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 23:12:13 +0200, "BarryNL" <nos...@spamless.com> revealed:
>
>> What is the best Linux version for making upgrades/new versions of software
>> easy to install.
>
Debian, for sure. To install a package, you just do:
apt-get install "package"
which fetches the package from a mirror, installs it, and configures
it.
apt-get upgrade
will check for any new versions of the packages you have installed, and
then fetch/install/configure them. Doesn't get any easier than that.
apt is also available for RPM-based distros, but I don't know how
well it works. Debian has an army of package maintainers who do a super
job making sure everything works well together.
BarryNL
"Otto Parts" <spamh...@usa.net> schreef in bericht
news:f9cj9.4159$R8.16...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 22:35:07 GMT, mjtobler@removethis_consultant.com
wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 23:12:13 +0200, "BarryNL" <nos...@spamless.com>
revealed:
> >
> >> What is the best Linux version for making upgrades/new versions of
software
> >> easy to install.
> >
>
> Debian, for sure. To install a package, you just do:
>
> apt-get install "package"
>
> which fetches the package from a mirror, installs it, and configures
> it.
>
> apt-get upgrade
That sounds like RedHat's 'up2date -i <pkg>' (which only works if you catch
the server at low load).
The problem is it still relies on RedHat having built an up to date version
of the package you want. They don't always do this, eg. they haven't even
built a KDE release to fix the Konqueror SSL security problem yet which was
patched a couple on months ago.
mjt
> Debian, for sure. To install a package, you just do:
>
> apt-get install "package"
> which fetches the package from a mirror, installs it, and configures
> it.
gentoo: emerge <package>
which fetches the source from a mirror, downloads, then COMPILES/BUILDS
it to match the optimizations for your machine, installs/configures it.
> apt-get upgrade
> will check for any new versions of the packages you have installed, and
> then fetch/install/configure them. Doesn't get any easier than that.
gentoo: emerge world
checks for new versions of any package you have installed against
the gentoo tree and downloads any that require updates (and if so,
compiles/builds the packages optimized for your machine).
mjt
> apt-get install "package"
... for suse, you can use:
The Advanced Package Tool for SuSE: http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/
Fast OnlineUpdate for SuSE: http://fou4s.gaugusch.at/
Otto Parts
> gentoo: emerge <package>
> which fetches the source from a mirror, downloads, then COMPILES/BUILDS
> it to match the optimizations for your machine, installs/configures it.
>
> gentoo: emerge world
> checks for new versions of any package you have installed against
> the gentoo tree and downloads any that require updates (and if so,
> compiles/builds the packages optimized for your machine).
That's all fine if you want to wait for everything to compile. It
can take a long time. And I trust the Debian social organization a lot
more than Gentoo, IMHO Gentoo is still too new and precarious. There
are a LOT more developers working on packaging Debian than Gentoo,
compare this:
http://www.debian.org/devel/people
with this:
http://www.gentoo.org/index-devlist.html
Just my opinion, of course. I hope Gentoo thrives, too.
mjt
> That's all fine if you want to wait for everything to compile. It
> can take a long time. And I trust the Debian social organization a lot
> more than Gentoo, IMHO Gentoo is still too new and precarious. There
> are a LOT more developers working on packaging Debian than Gentoo,
... a source distro is not for everyone, obviously. but if you want
the highest performance system you can muster up, then a source distro
is the way to go (i'm sure i dont have to convince you Otto, but
just expressing this for those that are lurking). i have gentoo
installed on a number of machines, from p166's on up - each one is
compiled to match the machine for optimum performance, with ONLY
the packages required to run. it REALLY makes a difference. newest
news from gentoo:
"We are proud to announce Gentoo Linux for the Alpha processor! In a
testament to the power and flexibility of the Portage system and Gentoo
Linux, Bjoern Brauel (aka "bjb") has done the amazing job of creating
a whole new port for Gentoo Linux in the span of 2 (yes, TWO) days
(yes, DAYS). Currently, Bjoern has Xfree86, GNOME 2, Gimp and other
things running on Gentoo Linux/Alpha, as you can see in this
screenshot." http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/gentoo/images/gentoo-alpha-1.4rc1.jpg
> are a LOT more developers working on packaging Debian than Gentoo,
> compare this:
>
> http://www.debian.org/devel/people
> with this:
> http://www.gentoo.org/index-devlist.html
> Just my opinion, of course. I hope Gentoo thrives, too.
... ahhhhh, but there a rub in that mentality (which is very typical
for IT managers) and that is: "if two people can produce X work,
then four people ought to produce twice as much". i've worked on a
lot of big-time projects and you know what? the optimal team is
a PM, team-lead/architect and two developers; at the most, five.
a team of three gifted developers can produce more than 5-7 'average'
developers. just because a project has more developers doesnt mean
that it's a better product or can be produced faster. (heck, how
many people worked on the Linux kernel?).
as a matter of fact, if you think about where gentoo is today from
where it started and compare that to debian, you'll find that gentoo
has progressed quicker and with a high-quality product. debian is
at 3.0, gentoo is at 1.4 (just released) - when gentoo is at 3.0,
i'll bet it's a high-quality, highly-polished product.
dont get me wrong, debian is a great distro and targets a specific
market. (btw, gentoo DOES have a pre-built (stage3) system you can
install).
John Hasler
> but if you want the highest performance system you can muster up,...
Recompilation will not speed up most packages.
> ..then a source distro is the way to go...
apt-get source --compile packagename; dpkg -i *.deb
> i've worked on a lot of big-time projects and you know what? the optimal
> team is a PM, team-lead/architect and two developers; at the most, five.
This is only true for some kinds of projects. Debian is not one of them.
Maintaining packages decentralizes very well. A seven man team is _not_
going to succeed in properly supporting 10,000 packages.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
mjt
> apt-get source --compile packagename; dpkg -i *.deb
i know, but i'm talking about building the WHOLE system from
scratch, not just the user packages: kernel, compiler, base
system, and everything else.
> This is only true for some kinds of projects. Debian is not one of them.
> Maintaining packages decentralizes very well. A seven man team is _not_
> going to succeed in properly supporting 10,000 packages.
i guess i can agree, but STILL take a look at gentoo and the number
of packages that are maintaining [and adding] and then look at the
number of people on that project.
Jeroen Geilman
says...
> mjt writes:
> > but if you want the highest performance system you can muster up,...
>
> Recompilation will not speed up most packages.
Ahum... That seriously depends on your point of view.
The source-based distro's have 2 main (stated) goals:
1. Configuration : you get *exactly* what you want, and
2. Speed
As of the present, most binary packages distributed with all the various
major distro's are still compiled as 386 code, excepting the ones most
sensitive to speedups, like the kernel, glibc and the X server, because
*it will run on ANY x86 system* - they are never distributed with pure
performance in mind.
I have an "old" (well...you know) HP Vectra with a P-133 (No MMX, even)
and 32 megs of FP RAM (slooooooow by today's standards), and intend to
use itprimarily as a *server*, like mail, web and ftp stuff.
And, yes, I *do* care about any and all optimizations I can get, because
the better the code runs, the more I can do with it.
Yes, sure, for major distro's the main components like kernel, glibc,
xf86 and gnome or kde will be optimized to hell and back, but if you
don't take that into account then the speedup from i386code to, say,
i686 code can be anything up to 50%.
J
Harri Pesonen
and he has tried to upgrade to 8.0 (using ftp, no ISOs available) many
times, but the installation program just freezes.
--
Harri Pesonen
http://www.nic.fi/~fuerte/
You should not underestimate the power of thickness - Kaoru Iwamoto
Ron Gibson
Noted:
Slackware using tarballs and compile yourself.
Been doing it for years...No "dependency" issues.
Another alternative might be the "Linux from Scratch" thingy. I heard
good things but have never needed to look.
I have all my hardware detected (Radeon 8500), great MP3 sound out os a
SBLive, all plugins except maybe 1-2, X 4.2, kernel 2.4.19-ac1 all built
around Slackware 8.0
--
Email - rgi...@ix.netcom.com
Home Page - http://rsgibson.com
FTP - ftp://ftp.rsgibson.com
Ron Gibson
Noted:
> > but if you want the highest performance system you can muster up,...
> Recompilation will not speed up most packages.
I dunno about that. I've had some not work *period* and after
recompiling they work beautifully.
I'd call going from 0 - working a dramatic increase in speed.
John Hasler
> Recompilation will not speed up most packages.
Ron Gibson writes:
> I dunno about that. I've had some not work *period* and after recompiling
> they work beautifully.
Read what I wrote.