Is there MS Access Equivalent for Linux
jack turer
Knoppix demo CD, slowly but surely, have moved everything now to
linux. It was much more painless than I expected, especially since
KDE, Mozilla, Evolution and Open Offive have become so mature over the
last few years.
So now I am planning to move my folk's PC's over too when I go visit
them at Christmas.
However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't
find an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very
simple and small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for
this program (so no mysql, no postgres..etc).
Something like MS Access (ie. does basic forms, simple reports, has
wizards to simplify a lot of this, a small knockup language like VBA,
and a very small data base with a couple tables to hold the recipies
that is included as part of the program with no external setup) is
what I want. Ie. just like MS-Access..nothing more complicated than
that..
Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type
projects working on it?
Thank you!
Jack
Paul Lutus
> I used to do daily PC work in Windows, but after some tests with the
> Knoppix demo CD, slowly but surely, have moved everything now to
> linux. It was much more painless than I expected, especially since
> KDE, Mozilla, Evolution and Open Offive have become so mature over the
> last few years.
>
> So now I am planning to move my folk's PC's over too when I go visit
> them at Christmas.
>
> However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't
> find an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very
> simple and small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for
> this program (so no mysql, no postgres..etc).
The usual way to do this on a Linux end-user system is to run MySQL or
PostGreSQL (yes, I read your post completely), run the Apache Web server
with local access only, and write some simple PHP pages to handle the user
front-end activities. It is an entirely different approach, but is far more
flexible than being tied into MSAccess.
Here is a download of some example PHP pages from my site:
http://arachnoid.com/DataProspector/php_pages.html
MySQL accepts plain-text database tables, so updating the recipe database is
*much* *easier* than when using MS Access, because any
program/spreadsheet/etc. can be used as the data source.
> Something like MS Access (ie. does basic forms, simple reports, has
> wizards to simplify a lot of this, a small knockup language like VBA,
Hoo-boy. This is a real MS perspective. Well, over time you'll get a handle
on the difference between the MS way and the open-source way.
BTW have you heard? Microsoft is abandoning VB -- they have already
saturated a market of their own creation, so they want everyone to buy
something else now. The needs of VB users were, as usual, not taken into
account.
> and a very small data base with a couple tables to hold the recipies
> that is included as part of the program with no external setup) is
> what I want. Ie. just like MS-Access..nothing more complicated than
> that..
>
> Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type
> projects working on it?
Because of how easy it is to create these things in Linux, there are few
efforts to package it as MS does, as though it is some big secret that
requires big bucks.
(a long pause, hovering over the "send" button ...)
Hold on -- I just realized, if PHP is used, the MySQL database requirement
doesn't exist -- it was just the first approach that occurred to me. PHP
can read server-side files directly, so all that is really needed is a PHP
script and a running Apache Web server, properly configured. In this case,
all one need do is create the initial data table, just with a row of field
names -- the PHP script would do the rest, allowing record entries,
deletions and searches.
Very simple, and the PHP page could be made attractive with little added
effort. Use my pages linked above, change the input sources, and edit them
to your heaart's desire.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
Christopher Browne
> Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type
> projects working on it?
No. Nobody is particularly interested in doing that.
The Right Way is to install a _real_ client/server database system,
like PostgreSQL, and use a front end such as OpenOffice.org or
PGAccess or such.
The people capable of creating the sort of "monolithic app" that you
are suggesting would rather spend their time building applications
that are robust atop a _real_ DBMS rather than bringing in all of the
horrors of what's wrong with Access.
The fact that you imagine that embedding a cruddy database system
inside a front end might be sensible doesn't mean that that is
actually true.
There's just no sense in creating an application that will be crippled
by design.
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html
Wow! Windows now can do everything using shared library DLLs, just
like Multics did back in the 1960s! Maybe someday they'll discover
separate processes and pipes, which came out in the 1970s!
mjt
> Something like MS Access (ie. does basic forms, simple reports, has
> wizards to simplify a lot of this, a small knockup language like VBA,
http://crisoftricette.sourceforge.net/
http://me.in-berlin.de/~bitrot/grok.html
http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/linuxlist/tempo/node12.html#database
.
--
/// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
\\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
A cynic is a person searching for an honest man,
with a stolen lantern. - Edgar A. Shoaff
Kirk Strauser
Hash: SHA1
At 2003-10-12T17:03:06Z, jack_...@yahoo.com (jack turer) writes:
> However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't find
> an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very simple and
> small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for this program (so
> no mysql, no postgres..etc).
You mentioned OpenOffice; why not use it to build the tables for your mom's
database on top of a MySQL backend? See:
http://documentation.openoffice.org/HOW_TO/data_source/data1_EN.html
Yes, that involves installing a database. But you only have to do that
once, then you can use it for as many applications as you want.
- --
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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Michael Heiming
> After a long battle with technology,jack_...@yahoo.com (jack turer), an earthling, wrote:
> > Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type
> > projects working on it?
> No. Nobody is particularly interested in doing that.
Well, yes and no:
There are the MDB tools to get your data out of *.mdb files:
http://mdbtools.sourceforge.net/
Perhaps kexi is something to look at (haven't used it):
Or:
http://hk-classes.sourceforge.net/
Or:
http://www.thekompany.com/products/rekall/
A comprehensive overview about M$ <--> Linux apps:
http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/
> The Right Way is to install a _real_ client/server database system,
> like PostgreSQL, and use a front end such as OpenOffice.org or
> PGAccess or such.
> The people capable of creating the sort of "monolithic app" that you
> are suggesting would rather spend their time building applications
> that are robust atop a _real_ DBMS rather than bringing in all of the
> horrors of what's wrong with Access.
> The fact that you imagine that embedding a cruddy database system
> inside a front end might be sensible doesn't mean that that is
> actually true.
> There's just no sense in creating an application that will be crippled
> by design.
While I theoretical agree with you, he was talking about:
"mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access"
He won't need a full featured RDBMS for something like this.
There was a full Linux M$ Access clone, which could read *.mdb, but
I don't have the URL anymore, a google search should show.
--
Michael Heiming
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM
Robert Heller
In a message on 12 Oct 2003 10:03:06 -0700, wrote :
jt> I used to do daily PC work in Windows, but after some tests with the
jt> Knoppix demo CD, slowly but surely, have moved everything now to
jt> linux. It was much more painless than I expected, especially since
jt> KDE, Mozilla, Evolution and Open Offive have become so mature over the
jt> last few years.
jt>
jt> So now I am planning to move my folk's PC's over too when I go visit
jt> them at Christmas.
jt>
jt> However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't
jt> find an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very
jt> simple and small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for
jt> this program (so no mysql, no postgres..etc).
Why not? PostGreSQL is not hard to set up.
MS Access in fact does use a DBMS back-end. They just 'hide' this
factoid. Just like the 'Personal Information Server' that is typically
running on Windows boxes is just a (typically) unpatched version IIS.
You don't really want to know how many Broadband connected MS-Windows
boxes are infected with the Code Red (and friends) worm. For the most
part the owners of these boxes are not even aware that they are
infected.
jt>
jt> Something like MS Access (ie. does basic forms, simple reports, has
jt> wizards to simplify a lot of this, a small knockup language like VBA,
jt> and a very small data base with a couple tables to hold the recipies
jt> that is included as part of the program with no external setup) is
jt> what I want. Ie. just like MS-Access..nothing more complicated than
jt> that..
Your best option is to install PostGreSQL (or MySQL if you prefer) and
use Tcl (pgtclsh+cgi.tcl, using PostGreSQL) or PHP (using MySQL) to
create dynamic web pages that access the database. Install Apache on
your folk's PC (or on one of them if they have more than one -- get a
pair of NICs and a hub or just a 'twisted' CAT5 cable). Basically, set
up one of the machine(s) as a database and web server. Your folks can
use Mozilla to interface to the forms using CGI.
Some basic UNIX/Linux type philosophy: if you are going to use a
database, you might has well use a *real* database.
jt>
jt> Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type
jt> projects working on it?
jt>
jt> Thank you!
jt>
jt> Jack
jt>
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: hel...@cs.umass.edu
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || hel...@deepsoft.com
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
Juha Siltala
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> At 2003-10-12T17:03:06Z, jack_...@yahoo.com (jack turer) writes:
>
>> However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't find
>> an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very simple and
>> small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for this program (so
>> no mysql, no postgres..etc).
>
> You mentioned OpenOffice; why not use it to build the tables for your mom's
> database on top of a MySQL backend? See:
That's a good solution. If one really does not want the features of a real
database, OpenOffice can handle non-relational dbase databases on its own.
--
Juha Siltala
http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/people/jsiltala/
Christopher Browne
> While I theoretical agree with you, he was talking about:
>
> "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access"
>
> He won't need a full featured RDBMS for something like this.
I can't fathom how a less featureful database system would be the
slightest bit simpler to install, in view of the presence of tools
like RPM/dpkg.
rpm -i foo.rpm
isn't made worse if foo.rpm gets more sophisticated.
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('aa454','freenet.carleton.ca').
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lisp.html
The purpose of an undergraduate education at MIT is to give you a case
of post-traumatic stress syndrome that won't wear off for forty years.
Michael Heiming
> After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, Michael Heiming <michael...@www.heiming.de> belched out...:
> > While I theoretical agree with you, he was talking about:
> >
> > "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access"
> >
> > He won't need a full featured RDBMS for something like this.
> I can't fathom how a less featureful database system would be the
> slightest bit simpler to install, in view of the presence of tools
> like RPM/dpkg.
> rpm -i foo.rpm
> isn't made worse if foo.rpm gets more sophisticated.
Well, didn't wrote about installing. The OP asked about some Linux
apps for "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access" and it's
questionable if he should learn mysql for this task. Sure it could
grab mysqlcc and get a DB up and running with a little knowledge.
Next he could install apache and write some simple
PHP/perl/whatever .cgi for his mom to access the DB.
Albeit all this needs some experience to set it up and I highly doubt
that the OP has all the needed knowledge/experience to get that up and
running in a few hours.
Ed Murphy
> Well, didn't wrote about installing. The OP asked about some Linux
> apps for "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access" and it's
> questionable if he should learn mysql for this task. Sure it could
> grab mysqlcc and get a DB up and running with a little knowledge.
> Next he could install apache and write some simple
> PHP/perl/whatever .cgi for his mom to access the DB.
>
> Albeit all this needs some experience to set it up and I highly doubt
> that the OP has all the needed knowledge/experience to get that up and
> running in a few hours.
I've *seen* MS Access. Creating something *correctly* is *not* easy; if
you can do that, then you can do it in PHP and (My|PG)SQL as well.
My suspicion is that the vast majority of things created in MS Access
are *not* correct. Crap can be written in any language. OTOH, I can
(and do!) write elegant code in BASIC.
What I *would* like to see in Linux is a WYSIWYG report writer, along
the lines of Crystal Reports. Does such a beast exist?
Christopher Browne
> What I *would* like to see in Linux is a WYSIWYG report writer, along
> the lines of Crystal Reports. Does such a beast exist?
1. Both the GNOME and KDE projects have XML-and-DBMS-based "report
generators."
gnome-db is the GNOME thing.
2. TheKompany.com is marketing something called Rekall that's
supposed to be trying to track MS Access functionality
3. There's a Java app called DataVision (at the obvious SourceForge
site) that mentions Crystal Reports as part of its inspiration.
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://cbbrowne.com/info/unix.html
Disco is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.
Ed Murphy
>> What I *would* like to see in Linux is a WYSIWYG report writer, along
>> the lines of Crystal Reports. Does such a beast exist?
> 3. There's a Java app called DataVision (at the obvious SourceForge
> site) that mentions Crystal Reports as part of its inspiration.
Ooh, this looks like *just* the thing. The "Downloads" link is on the
fritz right now, but I've bookmarked it.
Gerhard W. Gruber
comp.os.linux.misc with <8a58c331.03101...@posting.google.com>
>However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't
>find an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very
If it is only used for recipes, then why not change to a MealMaster software?
That is a widely known standard for recipe exchange with powerfull search
mechnisms and fits a recipe database much better than a MS Access database.
--
Gerhard Gruber
Für jedes menschliche Problem gibt es immer eine einfache Lösung:
Klar, einleuchtend und falsch. (Henry Louis Mencken)
Michael Heiming
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:57:25 +0200, Michael Heiming wrote:
> I've *seen* MS Access. Creating something *correctly* is *not* easy; if
> you can do that, then you can do it in PHP and (My|PG)SQL as well.
Yep, having developed a bunch of "apps" with M$ Access in the past, it
gets "interesting" if you need to call the NT API from VBA...
However, the OP's "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access",
doesn't sound like it would need more then a few minutes clicking
on one of the "wizards".
> My suspicion is that the vast majority of things created in MS Access
> are *not* correct. Crap can be written in any language. OTOH, I can
> (and do!) write elegant code in BASIC.
I'm working with *nix only.
> What I *would* like to see in Linux is a WYSIWYG report writer, along
> the lines of Crystal Reports. Does such a beast exist?
What's the use of "Crystal Reports"?
Joe
<emur...@socal.rr.com> writes
>On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:57:25 +0200, Michael Heiming wrote:
>
>> Well, didn't wrote about installing. The OP asked about some Linux
>> apps for "mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access" and it's
>> questionable if he should learn mysql for this task. Sure it could
>> grab mysqlcc and get a DB up and running with a little knowledge.
>> Next he could install apache and write some simple
>> PHP/perl/whatever .cgi for his mom to access the DB.
>>
>> Albeit all this needs some experience to set it up and I highly doubt
>> that the OP has all the needed knowledge/experience to get that up and
>> running in a few hours.
>
>I've *seen* MS Access. Creating something *correctly* is *not* easy; if
>you can do that, then you can do it in PHP and (My|PG)SQL as well.
>
can get a flat-file 'database' wrong with it. Certainly, if you need a
relational database, then you have to know a little theory, but even
here Access will stop you doing most 'impossible' things.
>My suspicion is that the vast majority of things created in MS Access
>are *not* correct. Crap can be written in any language. OTOH, I can
>(and do!) write elegant code in BASIC.
>
No argument there, but the fact that Access is a RDBMS does deter most
amateurs. Most people who have never done any work on databases are
frightened of them, and will use a spreadsheet instead in the belief
that it's 'easier'.
I suspect most Access-bashers here have never actually used it. It
certainly has limitations, but as a RAD system for fairly small
database-driven applications (which is as much as most small businesses
need) it's difficult to beat. I use twenty or thirty small Access
applications for my own domestic/small business jobs. I can throw a
simple three- or four-table database together in a couple of minutes,
and add queries and a frontend in four or five more, and I'm not a
database developer by profession. If I were fluent in MySQL and an
appropriate GUI toolkit, I don't think I could approach that kind of
speed.
I am far from being a fan of Microsoft, but I think Access is a good
piece of software, possibly the best thing they have produced. It is
fairly reliable and does make a difficult and complex job much easier.
--
Joe
Jabali Pragya
> However, mom has a simple recipe program in MS Access, and I couldn't
> find an equivalent to Access in OpenOffice. Because it is a very simple
> and small database, I *do not* want to set up a DBMS just for this
> program (so no mysql, no postgres..etc).
>
> Something like MS Access (ie. does basic forms, simple reports, has
> wizards to simplify a lot of this, a small knockup language like VBA,
> and a very small data base with a couple tables to hold the recipies
> that is included as part of the program with no external setup) is what
> I want. Ie. just like MS-Access..nothing more complicated than that..
>
> Does this exist in the Linux world yet? Any there any GNU type projects
> working on it?
>
If your mom's recipe database is text only, you may look at gjots - it is
a hierarchial text database.
OpenOffice also comes with a database which can read .dbf files. You may
be able to export Access files in dbf format and import them into OOo.
Another simple flat file database is gaby which may suit your purpose (but I
never managed to get it going for reasons that I could not fathom).
--
jabali
Please send e-mails to jab...@freeuk.com
Ed Murphy
>> What I *would* like to see in Linux is a WYSIWYG report writer, along
>> the lines of Crystal Reports. Does such a beast exist?
>
> What's the use of "Crystal Reports"?
Like I said, it's a WYSIWYG report writer. You specify your data
source(s) and how they link together (which is eventually stored in
the form of a SQL query statement), then drag-and-drop data fields
into a general report structure that looks something like this:
+------------------------------------------------+
Report Header | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Page Header | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Group Header | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Details | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Group Footer | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Report Footer | |
+------------------------------------------------+
Page Footer | |
+------------------------------------------------+
You can tweak fonts and styles, insert fixed-text labels and boxes
and images (e.g. a company logo).
You can have zero or more groups. A detailed sales analysis report
might be broken down by region, then by state, then by salesperson,
then by customer type, then by customer. You can select a detail
field and insert a group subtotal (or average, or mode, etc etc) for
that field.
Each major area can be divided into multiple sections if you wish.
Each section has various yes/no flags, e.g. "hide this section?" which
may also be controlled by a formula, which can make use of the data. For
instance, suppose the Details area corresponds to line items of sales
orders; Details A prints all the time, whereas Details B only prints if
the current line item is tracked by individual serial numbers.
Formulas can also be inserted into the reports and used just like data
fields. (Formulas are written in a Pascal-like language. Recent versions
of Crystal Reports also offer Visual Basic as an option.) Some useful
constructs (e.g. "Page N of M") are pre-defined; you just insert them.
Parameters (to be specified by the user at run-time) can be defined
and used, e.g. which sales order to print.
There's built-in support for cross-tab reports, e.g.
Uniforms Accessories Miscellaneous Total
Central Region $123,456 $123,456 $123,456 $370,368
Eastern Region $123,456 $123,456 $123,456 $370,368
Northern Region $123,456 $123,456 $123,456 $370,368
Southern Region $123,456 $123,456 $123,456 $370,368
Western Region $123,456 $123,456 $123,456 $370,368
Total $617,280 $617,280 $617,280 $1,851,840
Getting back to the original subject for a moment: MS Access has
something like this built in, but it's awful in several ways. And
you can only use MS Access itself as a data source, I think. Crystal
Reports is much better.
Sean G Gilley
> The usual way to do this on a Linux end-user system is to run MySQL or
> PostGreSQL (yes, I read your post completely), run the Apache Web server
> with local access only, and write some simple PHP pages to handle the user
> front-end activities. It is an entirely different approach, but is far more
> flexible than being tied into MSAccess.
I'm not arguing with anything you're saying. However, if I remember Access
correctly, there really isn't a good equivilent in Linux that I know of.
The problem with what you are suggesting is that it really takes at least
a poor programmer to put everything together. (Preferably a good programmer,
but you can't always have everything you want. :-)
Doesn't Access provide some simple ways for a user to do all the basic
functions? Using Wizards and such?
I guess a close match would be to install mysql, php, and mysqladmin.
While there aren't any wizards, at least it's fairly easy to create new
databases and administer mysql.
I'm not really advocating the creation of software such as Wizards, just
pointing out that writing PHP interfaces to mysql isn't really a complete
substitute to Access on Windows.
Sean.
Paul Lutus
> Paul Lutus <nos...@nosite.zzz> wrote in message
> news:<voj6fqd...@corp.supernews.com>...
>> The usual way to do this on a Linux end-user system is to run MySQL or
>> PostGreSQL (yes, I read your post completely), run the Apache Web server
>> with local access only, and write some simple PHP pages to handle the
>> user front-end activities. It is an entirely different approach, but is
>> far more flexible than being tied into MSAccess.
>
> I'm not arguing with anything you're saying. However, if I remember
> Access correctly, there really isn't a good equivilent in Linux that I
> know of.
But my post tells you that a pretty form can be created using PHP, a form
that is easier to create and more portable than anything Access can create.
Consider this -- once the recipe PHP page has been built, you could post it
on a family Web site, and all your friends could read the recipes using the
same form that was used to create them (including searches and other nice
stuff). Access *cannot* *provide* *this*. You are only noticing that this
solution is not Access.
With all respect, you are seeing everything through an Access filter, sort
of like the old adage of a hammer seeing everything as a nail.
> The problem with what you are suggesting is that it really takes at least
> a poor programmer to put everything together. (Preferably a good
> programmer, but you can't always have everything you want. :-)
Yes, that is true. Some Perl/PHP programming ability is required.
> Doesn't Access provide some simple ways for a user to do all the basic
> functions? Using Wizards and such?
First, creating an Access database and forms is much more difficult to get
right than one is often led to believe. Second, Access only works on
Windows, which makes the results non-portable (I used it for years).
> I guess a close match would be to install mysql, php, and mysqladmin.
> While there aren't any wizards, at least it's fairly easy to create new
> databases and administer mysql.
No, I realized my first post was in error. No database is needed. The entire
project can be carried out with just plain-text data files and a
PHP-enabled Web server (which comes with most Linux distributions).
[Recipe file, plain text] <--> [PHP page] <--> [Web server]
That's all there is to it.
>
> I'm not really advocating the creation of software such as Wizards, just
> pointing out that writing PHP interfaces to mysql isn't really a complete
> substitute to Access on Windows.
No MySQL needed. Sorry for my misleading first post.
Jean-David Beyer
> First, creating an Access database and forms is much more difficult to get
> right than one is often led to believe.
You can say that again.
I have some familiarity with relational database design, having built a
relational dbms for UNIX in the late 1970s. Unfortunately, it did not
speak SQL.
But in spite of that experience, I could not design a simple (10
relations of so) database in Microsoft Access with their annoying point
and click interface. It grumbled about many to many relationships among
the relations or something that was just not true.
I had no trouble designing the database in postgreSQL, Informix, or
IBM's DB2. While postgreSQL did not actually work (in early 1998),
Informix did and IBM DB2 did and still does. I could to that with a
simple command line interface. I made a database definition using a text
editor and had the shell execute it.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 3:00pm up 6 days, 1:14, 2 users, load average: 4.22, 4.27, 4.26