power requirements of OSB flash drives
Hactar
200-CD carousel (that just forgot all the titles to my CDs). I quickly
realized SSDs are crazy expensive, and provide performance I just don't
need. (I sleep in there, so silence is paramount; heat is important too,
as the case is fanless.) So I decided to go with thumb drives. One won't
cut it because of size and reliability, so I figured I'd get five 16 GiB
thumb drives and use software RAID 5 (? N drives + parity) to turn them
into a ~64 GiB volume.
(1) How to boot? Slap stuff on a CD, and do what LiveCDs do to have the
boot disk unmounted? What is that, anyhow? Use another thumb drive
and make sure it stays mounted ro?
(2) I was reading a user comment at newegg, and he said regarding a hub:
"If you plan to plug in anything that needs power from the usb port,
(...flash drive...) don't bother. This cant provide enough power to do
any of it." Now here, I've never had problems running a flash drive
from an unpowered hub. Then again, I've never tried to run five of
them. I realize they have to have _some_ power. So how much power
do flash drives use actually? 10 mW? I'm looking specifically at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208378
The technical information says only that it's "USB powered".
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
Drive nail here > < for new monitor.
Dan Lenski
> So I'm shopping for parts for an MP3-playing computer, to replace my
> 200-CD carousel (that just forgot all the titles to my CDs). I quickly
> realized SSDs are crazy expensive, and provide performance I just don't
> need. (I sleep in there, so silence is paramount; heat is important too,
> as the case is fanless.) So I decided to go with thumb drives. One won't
> cut it because of size and reliability, so I figured I'd get five 16 GiB
> thumb drives and use software RAID 5 (? N drives + parity) to turn them
> into a ~64 GiB volume.
How about this instead? Use 4 CompactFlash cards instead of USB
drives. The hardware interface of CF is *identical* to ATA/IDE, so
all you need is a passive mechanical adapter.
This way you'll eliminate the protocol overhead and annoyances of USB,
as well as not have a bunch of ugly thumb drives sticking out of the
computer. You can get CF->IDE adapters for a few bucks, here's one
that allows you to plug 2 CF cards into one IDE channel for $4
shipped:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BOOTABLE-DUAL-IDE-TO-CF-COMPACT-FLASH-CONVERTER-ADAPTER_W0QQitemZ360047295141QQihZ023QQcategoryZ41994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem/ad44midecf.asp
So, get 2 of these adapter ($8) and 4 16gb CF cards (about $280 if you
go for the best deals). And then you have a flexible, RAID-able 64gb
SSD. Of course, at this point you've basically reinvented the SSD,
except that yours will be pretty slow unless you go for the fast and
pricey CF cards...
Dan
Hactar
Dan Lenski <dle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 6:08 pm, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
> > So I'm shopping for parts for an MP3-playing computer, to replace my
> > 200-CD carousel (that just forgot all the titles to my CDs). I quickly
> > realized SSDs are crazy expensive, and provide performance I just don't
> > need. (I sleep in there, so silence is paramount; heat is important too,
> > as the case is fanless.) So I decided to go with thumb drives. One won't
> > cut it because of size and reliability, so I figured I'd get five 16 GiB
> > thumb drives and use software RAID 5 (? N drives + parity) to turn them
> > into a ~64 GiB volume.
>
> How about this instead? Use 4 CompactFlash cards instead of USB
> drives. The hardware interface of CF is *identical* to ATA/IDE, so
> all you need is a passive mechanical adapter.
That will do nicely. Or rather, would have done, since I've decided to
get a hacked Xbox instead. Yeah, not absolutely quiet, but pretty darn
close, and a whole lot cheaper.
> This way you'll eliminate the protocol overhead and annoyances of USB,
> as well as not have a bunch of ugly thumb drives sticking out of the
> computer. You can get CF->IDE adapters for a few bucks, here's one
> that allows you to plug 2 CF cards into one IDE channel for $4
> shipped:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/BOOTABLE-DUAL-IDE-TO-CF-COMPACT-FLASH-CONVERTER-ADAPTER_W0QQitemZ360047295141QQihZ023QQcategoryZ41994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem/ad44midecf.asp
(For future reference, that URL is the same as
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ360047295141 )
Not sure the proposed motherboard has two channels, lemme check... yep,
it does. Does that adapter take up one 3.5" bay or two? I can't tell.
> So, get 2 of these adapter ($8) and 4 16gb CF cards (about $280 if you
> go for the best deals).
There are 32 GB cards out there. Here's one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183191
What's the reliability like on CF cards, assuming you don't write to
them often? Is it possible to make a RAID array of two devices, so that
when one goes bad the computer can tell which one it is?
> And then you have a flexible, RAID-able 64gb
> SSD. Of course, at this point you've basically reinvented the SSD,
> except that yours will be pretty slow unless you go for the fast and
> pricey CF cards...
Naw, speed's not important in this application. I mean, _glacial_ is
bad, but anything reasonable is OK.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert
Dan Lenski
> In article
> <aba68e1a-f336-458c...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Dan
> Lenski <dle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> How about this instead? Use 4 CompactFlash cards instead of USB
>> drives. The hardware interface of CF is *identical* to ATA/IDE, so all
>> you need is a passive mechanical adapter.
>
> That will do nicely. Or rather, would have done, since I've decided to
> get a hacked Xbox instead. Yeah, not absolutely quiet, but pretty darn
> close, and a whole lot cheaper.
That works too :-)
> (For future reference, that URL is the same as
> http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ360047295141 )
>
> Not sure the proposed motherboard has two channels, lemme check... yep,
> it does. Does that adapter take up one 3.5" bay or two? I can't tell.
Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you can
even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE header, with
no cable in between.
>> So, get 2 of these adapter ($8) and 4 16gb CF cards (about $280 if you
>> go for the best deals).
>
> There are 32 GB cards out there. Here's one:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183191
True, but the GB/$ sweet spot is currently at 8gb or 16gb. Wait a month
or two and it'll change :-)
> What's the reliability like on CF cards, assuming you don't write to
> them often? Is it possible to make a RAID array of two devices, so that
> when one goes bad the computer can tell which one it is?
Reliability is good, even with a lot of writing. Wear leveling makes that
pretty much a non-issue these days, at least in terms of endurance. Wear
leveling can still cause write /performance/ to suffer.
Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID 0
(striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a good
choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).
>> And then you have a flexible, RAID-able 64gb SSD. Of course, at this
>> point you've basically reinvented the SSD, except that yours will be
>> pretty slow unless you go for the fast and pricey CF cards...
>
> Naw, speed's not important in this application. I mean, _glacial_ is
> bad, but anything reasonable is OK.
Eh... cheap CF cards are *really* slow, like <1 MB/s write speed. RAID
will help, of course.
Dan
Hactar
> >
> > Not sure the proposed motherboard has two channels, lemme check... yep,
> > it does. Does that adapter take up one 3.5" bay or two? I can't tell.
>
> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you can
> even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE header, with
> no cable in between.
Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one bay...
> > Is it possible to make a RAID array of two devices, so that
> > when one goes bad the computer can tell which one it is?
>
> Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
> devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID 0
> (striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
> capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a good
> choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).
Yeah, recompressing 250+ CDs into MP3s would be a real pain, so it'd be
nice to make the array mostly insensitive to card failure, at the
expense of speed. I figure 50 GB=~300 CDs gives me some breathing room.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
LEO: Now is not a good time to photocopy your butt and staple it
to your boss' face, oh no. Eat a bucket of tuna-flavored pudding
and wash it down with a gallon of strawberry Quik. -- Weird Al
Daniel Lenski
>> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
>> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
>> header, with no cable in between.
>
> Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> bay...
The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
header, if you have the clearance for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/
_W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(how do you get the short urls???)
Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
>> Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
>> devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID
>> 0 (striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
>> capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a
>> good choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).
>
> Yeah, recompressing 250+ CDs into MP3s would be a real pain, so it'd be
> nice to make the array mostly insensitive to card failure, at the
> expense of speed. I figure 50 GB=~300 CDs gives me some breathing room.
Seems reasonable! Four 16gb cards will give you 48gb, would be a pretty
nice setup.
Dan
Hactar
Daniel Lenski <dle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:08:00 +0000, Hactar wrote:
> >> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
> >> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
> >> header, with no cable in between.
> >
> > Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> > bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> > and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> > bay...
>
> The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
> so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
> cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
> header, if you have the clearance for it:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/
> _W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> (how do you get the short urls???)
Manual trimming. Think a regular multi-argument URL, except s/?/_W0QQ/,
s/&/QQ/, and s/=/Z/ . You only need _W0QQitemZwhatever, all the
other args including title can go byebye. This must be a homebrew syntax,
since TTBOMK nobody else does it that way.
> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>
> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?
--
"Never go off on tangents, which are lines that intersect a curve at
only one point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the 6th
century, which was an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we
now know as Poland." - from Nov. 1998 issue of Infosystems Executive.
John McCallum
>
> (how do you get the short urls???)
You could try tinyurl.com (free), and for the paranoid, quote the url
generated as http://preview.tinyurl.com/xxxx
John McCallum
Hactar
Disadvantage: You can't tell where the link leads before taking it, but
at least you can tell before going there.
Advantage: Little work, guaranteed to be short (~31 chars).
Dan Lenski
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/
> > _W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> > (how do you get the short urls???)
>
> Manual trimming. Think a regular multi-argument URL, except s/?/_W0QQ/,
> s/&/QQ/, and s/=/Z/ . You only need _W0QQitemZwhatever, all the
> other args including title can go byebye. This must be a homebrew syntax,
> since TTBOMK nobody else does it that way.
Wow, that is bizarre! Do they have some good reason to break standard
CGI parameter passing syntax, or are they just doing it to make their
URLs needlessly opaque??
> > Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> > 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>
> >http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
>
> Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?
Yeah, the page says it's compatible with Linux 2.4+. Though I don't
know which driver it uses, and googling didn't come up with much
unfortunately.
Dan
Hactar
Dan Lenski <dle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 6, 12:08 am, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/
> > >
> _W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > > (how do you get the short urls???)
> >
> > Manual trimming. Think a regular multi-argument URL, except s/?/_W0QQ/,
> > s/&/QQ/, and s/=/Z/ . You only need _W0QQitemZwhatever, all the
> > other args including title can go byebye. This must be a homebrew syntax,
> > since TTBOMK nobody else does it that way.
>
> Wow, that is bizarre! Do they have some good reason to break standard
> CGI parameter passing syntax, or are they just doing it to make their
> URLs needlessly opaque??
800-pound gorilla syndrome, methinks. I guess they figure they're big
enough to make the rules. Or maybe some rogue copro-grammer saw some
dubious benefit in doing it this way.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political
view or strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof
is left as an exercise for your kill-file." -- Bertil Jonell
Darren Salt
> On May 6, 12:08 am, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
[snip]
>>> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
>>> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
>> Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?
> Yeah, the page says it's compatible with Linux 2.4+. Though I don't know
> which driver it uses, and googling didn't come up with much unfortunately.
Addonics "Quad-CF PCI Controller" Linux
That provided a useful result – look for the mail to the linux-ide list.
You'll find chipset and driver info there.
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Output *more* particulate pollutants. BUFFER AGAINST GLOBAL WARMING.
You are tricky, but never to the point of dishonesty.
Hactar
Darren Salt <ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid> wrote:
> I demand that Dan Lenski may or may not have written...
>
> > On May 6, 12:08 am, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
> [snip]
> >>> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> >>> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
> >>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
> >> Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?
>
> > Yeah, the page says it's compatible with Linux 2.4+. Though I don't know
> > which driver it uses, and googling didn't come up with much unfortunately.
>
> Addonics "Quad-CF PCI Controller" Linux
>
> That provided a useful result – look for the mail to the linux-ide list.
> You'll find chipset and driver info there.
Thanks. Just FTR, what's that thing between "result" and "look"
supposed to be?
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
GEMINI: Your birthday party will be ruined once again by your explosive
flatulence. Your love life will run into trouble when your fiancee hurls
a javelin through your chest. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
Darren Salt
> In article <4FA0DEDBC8%ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid>,
> Darren Salt <ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid> wrote:
>> I demand that Dan Lenski may or may not have written...
>>> On May 6, 12:08 am, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that
>>>>> takes 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>>>>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
[snip]
>>> I don't know which driver it uses, and googling didn't come up with
>>> much unfortunately.
>> Addonics "Quad-CF PCI Controller" Linux
>> That provided a useful result – look for the mail to the linux-ide list.
>> You'll find chipset and driver info there.
> Thanks. Just FTR, what's that thing between "result" and "look"
> supposed to be?
An en dash.
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| Let's keep the pound sterling
Confucius say: He who post large binary, get flamed.
Dan Lenski
> In article <4FA0DEDBC8%n...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid>,
> Darren Salt <n...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I demand that Dan Lenski may or may not have written...
>
> > > On May 6, 12:08 am, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
> > [snip]
> > >>> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> > >>> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
> > >>>http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp
> > >> Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?
>
> > > Yeah, the page says it's compatible with Linux 2.4+. Though I don't know
> > > which driver it uses, and googling didn't come up with much unfortunately.
>
> > Addonics "Quad-CF PCI Controller" Linux
>
> > That provided a useful result – look for the mail to the linux-ide list.
> > You'll find chipset and driver info there.
>
Well, if you end up going with the CF cards software RAID, please do
post and let us know how it works out.
I've only ever used the dual CF adapters myself...
Dan
Amy Lee
> In article <2cbb8b6e-64cf-4d9d...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> I'll have to re-evaluate some stuff. This machine needs to be on the
> LAN, and running a wire into my bedroom isn't feasible, so it'd have to
> be wireless. Wifi isn't onboard, so that means a PCI card. Mini-ITX
> boards usually have only one PCI slot, so that means wired-wireless
> adapter (like for a game console). That does spread the heat out more...
>
> It's a useful gadget, but I've probably solved the problem for now.
> I'll keep it (or one like it) in mind for the next round.
That's well.