Mini ITX motherboards - Intel Atom
Mike
intelligent irrigation system. On a price (I'm not rich) / performance
aspect (and hopefully a reliable brand), the Intel D945CGLF ($NZ134) or
D945CGLF2 ($NZ157) or Foxconn 45CS look like starters. The Intel one's have
an IDE connector which ought to be handy with the contents of my junk box
having 2 - 80Gb IDE drives.
Has anyone had any experience with running Linux on these? I primarily use
Fedora and and looking to brew a customised Linux From Scratch or similar
system if/when time allows.
The Intel and Foxconn websites only state support for Windows. They don't
specifically say that Linux is a no-no..
Cheers
Mike
ray
I've not had any experience with the boards you name, but I have
experience with another low cost board. It's been a while since I got it,
but it's the board on my main desktop computer now. Some time back, when
gOS (green operating system) computer was announced, it was possible to
get the gOS motherboard for $60. I did. Now running Debian on it. Comes
with an integrated 1.5ghz VIA C7 - two DDR2 slots, support for both SATA
and IDE drives. A web search should turn it up.
Mungo
> or D945CGLF2
> Has anyone had any experience with running Linux on these? I primarily
> use Fedora and and looking to brew a customised Linux From Scratch or
> similar system if/when time allows.
The D945CGLF2 board runs RHEL 5.4 flawlessly. It averages 42 watts. The
support issue is that Intel requires Windows to validate non fatal hardware
failures (Audio, NIC, etc) in order to issue an RMA.
regards,
mungo
Mike
"Mungo" <reallyd...@me.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CEBCC3E4AB...@74.209.131.10...
Thaks Mungo. Some more questions for you?
Sooooo, they're basically like most other M/B's in that they only come with
Windows utilities? In which case an unvalidated install of 32bit XP would
enable me to validate non fatal hardware errors?
I notice that the Foxconn doesn't have a fan on the CPU nor a heat sink on a
large-ish Intel chip. Looking at both the D945CGLF and D945CGLF2, there is a
fan on the CPU and a heatsink on the large Intel chip. Are Intel just being
cautious or are Foxconn sailing too close to the wind. As I prefer the
silence of no fan (my wife can hear a fan from the far end of the house), is
it possible to underclock things to around 1Ghz (or whatever) to produce
less heat? 1Ghz would be plenty of power for what I plan to do.
Will these boards boot off a USB stick (no noise and less watts presumably)?
Cheers
Mike
Mike
> Windows utilities? In which case an unvalidated install of 32bit XP would
Oops, 64bit Windows.
Did some more digging on Intel's site and found
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d945gclf2/sb/CS-029860.htm
Darren Salt
[snip]
> Looking at both the D945CGLF and D945CGLF2, there is a fan on the CPU and a
> heatsink on the large Intel chip.
I think that you'll find that it's not the CPU which has a fan on its
heatsink...
> Are Intel just being cautious or are Foxconn sailing too close to the wind.
> As I prefer the silence of no fan (my wife can hear a fan from the far end
> of the house),
You should be able to find and fit a quieter fan if you really need to.
> is it possible to underclock things to around 1Ghz (or whatever) to produce
> less heat? 1Ghz would be plenty of power for what I plan to do.
I've not seen cpufreq working ‒ it seems that this is only supported on some
Atoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors.
> Will these boards boot off a USB stick (no noise and less watts
> presumably)?
I see no reason why not. (I used a spare CD/DVD drive, though.)
--
| Darren Salt | linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Doon
| using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds ,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/
If it isn't broken, break it then charge for repair. HUMBUG!
Mungo
> Sooooo, they're basically like most other M/B's in that they only come
> with Windows utilities? In which case an unvalidated install of 32bit
> XP would enable me to validate non fatal hardware errors?
>
In fact, that's what one of their telephone support people in Chile told a
tech to do for a board with DOA audio. The reason for this is that they
need a single platform to validate returns. There are too many flavors of
linux, bsd, etc. to define standard diagnostic tests for each.
They may not "support" linux, but they have validated the board on various
flavours of linux. See
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d945gclf2/sb/CS-
029860.htm
> I notice that the Foxconn doesn't have a fan on the CPU nor a heat
> sink on a large-ish Intel chip. Looking at both the D945CGLF and
> D945CGLF2, there is a fan on the CPU and a heatsink on the large Intel
The fan is on the GPU (not CPU) . Earlier board versions were reported to
have loud fans which failed with alarming frequency. Later builds appear to
have resolved that issue. Replacing the fan yourself voids the warranty.
The CPU runs an average of 50 degrees C in an air conditioned area with
exhaust. Fan noise also can be amplified or attentuated by the enclosure
you choose.
regards,
mungo
----------------
The backhoe is the natural predator of the fiber optic cable
Mike
"Darren Salt" <ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid> wrote in message
news:mpro.kv7m4g00...@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid...
>I demand that Mike may or may not have written...
>
> [snip]
>> Looking at both the D945CGLF and D945CGLF2, there is a fan on the CPU and
>> a
>> heatsink on the large Intel chip.
>
> I think that you'll find that it's not the CPU which has a fan on its
> heatsink...
>
>
> You should be able to find and fit a quieter fan if you really need to.
>
fans and get it to perculate over the M/B
>> is it possible to underclock things to around 1Ghz (or whatever) to
>> produce
>> less heat? 1Ghz would be plenty of power for what I plan to do.
>
> I've not seen cpufreq working ? it seems that this is only supported on
> some
> Atoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors.
I'll be sure to click appropriately
>
>> Will these boards boot off a USB stick (no noise and less watts
>> presumably)?
>
> I see no reason why not. (I used a spare CD/DVD drive, though.)
>
They (apparently) do. Further delving into the Intel site has revealed such
a claim.
> If it isn't broken, break it then charge for repair. HUMBUG!
Hee hee
Mike
> regards,
>
> mungo
>
>
> ----------------
> The backhoe is the natural predator of the fiber optic cable
Are you from Iowa?
infinite jest
Do you really need MiniITX, or would FlexATX work just as well. IME, you
pay more for the smaller form factor, but often get less. I looked at
getting the Intel Atom 330 board (D945CGLF2), but went with a Supermicro
X7SLA-H-O instead.
Another option is an old laptop. That could give you a lot of extra
features that you might need (onboard screen, power supply/battery, self
contained, and semi-rugged, etc.)
Just wondering.
Mike
> Do you really need MiniITX, or would FlexATX work just as well. IME, you
> pay more for the smaller form factor, but often get less. I looked at
> getting the Intel Atom 330 board (D945CGLF2), but went with a Supermicro
> X7SLA-H-O instead.
>
> Another option is an old laptop. That could give you a lot of extra
> features that you might need (onboard screen, power supply/battery, self
> contained, and semi-rugged, etc.)
>
> Just wondering.
With the prices over here (NZ) going a more conventional form factor isn't
cheaper. More power for very similar money. i.e. not the absolute cheapest
option but close and good quality brands sees a Celeron E1400 and MSI
G31M3-L V2 for $NZ166 (2Ghz dual core Celeron and G31 chipset micro-ITX
M/B). Lot more power usage than a mini-ITX/ATom combo. Via boards are twice
the price :-(
Tried the old Laptop route. Too expensive and old enough to be flakey. Have
a Dell PIII laptop but it's CD drive no longer likes CDR's and is just
getting flakey. Folks over here are unrealistic in their expectations for
old Laptops. If I had a $NZ600+ budget I could entertain a new budget one
but..... Plus I have spare keyboards and a HP 1702 LCD screen that I could
use.
Thanks for your thoughts though. :-)
Regards
Mike
Vlad_Inhaler
>
> I've not had any experience with the boards you name, but I have
> experience with another low cost board. It's been a while since I got it,
> but it's the board on my main desktop computer now. Some time back, when
> gOS (green operating system) computer was announced, it was possible to
> get the gOS motherboard for $60. I did. Now running Debian on it. Comes
> with an integrated 1.5ghz VIA C7 - two DDR2 slots, support for both SATA
> and IDE drives. A web search should turn it up.
I have an older machine with a Via C3 running at around 900 mhz as my
'main machine' - desktop usage + nfs/samba exports. Slowly but surely
it is becoming too slow (cpu bound) for me and I have been thinking of
moving to an Atom x 2. What is your performance like?
btw, I have not had Flash installed on this machine for years. That
experience was just too painful.
ray
Relative to what benchmark? It's quite a bit faster, running standard
Debian, than the 1ghz C3 I had running fully optimized Gentoo. I have no
issues performance wise.
AZ Nomad
>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 03:33:43 -0800, Vlad_Inhaler wrote:
The via cpu's are basically souped pentium I's. They do not have
instruction ordering introduced with the pentium pro and seen on
pentium II and later processors.
Do you know if the atom has such an architecture?
infinite jest
<...>
>
>
>>Relative to what benchmark? It's quite a bit faster, running standard
>>Debian, than the 1ghz C3 I had running fully optimized Gentoo. I have no
>>issues performance wise.
>
> The via cpu's are basically souped pentium I's. They do not have
> instruction ordering introduced with the pentium pro and seen on pentium
> II and later processors.
>
> Do you know if the atom has such an architecture?
>
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-core-atom-330,2141.html
Atom's 8W TDP seems attractive, but its impact is somewhat muddied when
comparing the total power required "at the plug." Check the graphs on
page 7 (from the ref) showing total power comsuption.
Wikipedia also has an article about Intel's Atom.
IIRC, there were small boards and many laptops based on the Pentium M
CPU. That CPU still provides acceptable performance for many common
tasks. Google found this graph comparing several CPUs:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/intel_atom_benchmark.JPG
Vlad_Inhaler
magazine C't. The way it panned out (from memory) was that the Atom
had more power than the C3, but that the Atom was really held back by
the crappy chipset Intel were using. Slow and power hungry. This was
to prevent the Atom from invading the Celeron's market.
The review came up with an undertacted modern AMD processor which -
using a decent chipset - blew the Atom out of the water. The problem
with that is that it is essentially vapourware, I don't think AMD make
that particular cpu any more and like as not, the motherboard is also
end-of-life. I also can't remember if it could be passively cooled.
What next? Well, Intel were supposed to be coming out with a new
chipset (mentioned in that Intel benchmark article) a month or so ago
which would make the Atom more interesting. Occasionally I try and
check to see if it is available at a store near me. Not yet.
Danno
<snip>
>
> The via cpu's are basically souped pentium I's. They do not have
> instruction ordering introduced with the pentium pro and seen on
> pentium II and later processors.
>
> Do you know if the atom has such an architecture?
Atom has up to SSE3 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors
The VIA CPUs slowly acquired extra instruction across the various lines and
iterations, from C3->C7->Eden->Nano. I believe the newest Nano CPUs even
have SSE4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Nano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VIA_microprocessors
I am not familiar of the computational needs of an automated irrigation
system (I'll speculate relatively low), but if up front cost is important,
why not just get used system? Way-cheap P4-era systems seem to be common
around my part of the world, these days. They're going to burn more power
than a new Atom-based system, but will likely cost about a quarter of the
price, up front.
If you're looking at the long term power consumption, check out the Fit PC
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/
or Norhtec's array of offerings (Vortex86 and VIA CPUs) :
http://www.norhtec.com/products/index.html
I am particularly looking forward to getting one or two of these in from
Norhtec, when they are released :
http://www.xcore86.com/site/node/11
Or, if your heart is set on a bare Atom motherboard, here's a few upcoming
options:
http://www.linuxtech.net/features/intel_atom_pineview_motherboards_overview.html
Experience with Linux + Atom : I built my (light duty) fileserver around a
Jetway Atom330 motherboard. I'm running Slackware 12.2 on it, has a single
2G stick (max), a 4xSATA daughterboard + 2xSATA + 1xIDE, realtek onboard
gigalan. I'm pretty happy with it, seems stable enough on XFS across all
the drives, think I've rebooted once in the past year due to a (stock)
kernel bug in the (unneeded) sound module, otherwise it's up 24/7/365. I
may pony up for one of those Zotac NM10-B-E boards at some point, perhaps
the Supermicro X7SPA-HF, mainly for the increase to 4G RAM (2 slots).
--
Slackware 12.2, 2.6.27.7, Core i7 920, GeForce 8400 GS
RLU #272755
Mike
> I am not familiar of the computational needs of an automated irrigation
> system (I'll speculate relatively low), but if up front cost is important,
> why not just get used system? Way-cheap P4-era systems seem to be common
> around my part of the world, these days. They're going to burn more power
> than a new Atom-based system, but will likely cost about a quarter of the
> price, up front.
> If you're looking at the long term power consumption, check out the Fit PC
Yup, computational needs could be handled by by practically anything. The
O/S and any GUI would be the biggest loads. The system would just be taking
readings from a weather station and other sensors on a 1-wire system and
doing things like activating relays and the like based on the readings.
I've got an Athlon Barton 2600+ system that could be used but it's too noisy
to run in the house 24/7. The garage is not a PC friendly environment (too
much dust and temperature extremes.)
Cheers
Mike
Kevin D. Snodgrass
Have you looked at something like a Chumby? It comes with Linux installed.
http://www.chumby.com/
Or this:
http://www.mini-box.com/
Or this:
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/
Lots of little computers out there these days...
Danno
<snip>
> The garage is not a PC friendly
> environment (too much dust and temperature extremes.)
>
> Cheers
> Mike
I've also been weighing the benefits of keeping a computer in a varying
temperature (outdoor). Sounds like condensation is a killer. From what I've
read so far, one almost certainly needs a sealed system during the cold
season. Dust can be filtered, but water vapour has to be accommodated for.
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