Does any real RAD tool exist yet for Linux?
Warren Postma
in the works, but a ways off yet.
I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
Binaries are available from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
I've looked at Glade and GTK++ and both appear Not Ready for Prime Time.
And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I did, it would
probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
like it's at least headed in the right direction.
Warren
Brendan Murray
"Warren Postma" <em...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:vMIg4.4659$S64.1...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
> latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
> like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
>
B=
Rakshassa
I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
Binaries are available from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I did, it would
probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
like it's at least headed in the right direction.
I might not be jumping up and down on my chair everytime i download a tarball,
but i don't mind doing it. And as i get better at c/c++, i'd like to play around with
the sourcecode...
And if you don't know what to do with those tarballs (and i get the
impression
you're one of them), you should learn. Cause GPL project i've come
across
update's their snapshots alot more often than their binary packages...
And...if you'd known what to do with tarballs, you could get yourself
KDevelop
updated 17/01 (or 01/17 if you prefer it that way), and the one before
that is from
05/12.
And how are you gonna distribute that Delphi-like plugin for KDevelop
your
gonna develop, if you don't know how to use tarballs? Maybe your gonna
use
RPM? He...
If you like binarys so mutch, why don't you go back to Windows, and
program
alittle in Delphi(or VB if that could be called programming).
Rakshassa
"They keep saying drugs will ruin your life, but they never once
mentioned what
MUDing would do too you."
Marc Britten
> And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
actually there are ports for the language for windows, mac, maybe even
Be i can't remember. Plus there are a few IDE's that have been built
for it VisualTCL comes to mind
> Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
> latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
> like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
The question is what do you want from an IDE? I came from a Windows
centric programming background and was unimpressed with the usability of
most IDE's, especially JBuilder.
--
---------
So much information, so little time
Marc Britten Linux KnowledgeBase Developer
max reason
> There is no Visual Basic equivalent, and Delphi for Linux
> is rumoured to be in the works, but a ways off yet.
>
> the type who likes to download "tarballs" and know what
> to do with them once you get them. Binaries are available
> from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
>
> Not Ready for Prime Time.
>
> without an IDE.
>
> support for the latest JDK, or is everything "demoware",
> and not suitable for serious use, like the evaluation version
> of JBuilder released from Borland.
>
> If I did, it would probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like
> plug in to KDevelop, which looks like it's at least headed
> in the right direction.
>
You might be interested in XBasic, a 32-bit compiler with
IDE and built-in GuiDesigner. XBasic is roughly equivalent
to VisualBasic in what it does, but the XBasic programming
language is far more powerful than VB. A few programmers
have said "XBasic is C in BASIC clothing" for what its worth.
XBasic is written entirely in XBasic (plus a little assembly).
One interesting feature of XBasic is platform independence.
Two implemenations of XBasic are available, one for Linux
and another for Windows95/98/2000/NT. You can run your
XBasic programs on both platforms without modification,
even programs with lots of graphics and GUI functionality.
XBasic is a true compiler - it generates assembly language
that is assembled and linked by standard tools. Also, the
default XBasic function protocol is identical to C and the
underlying operating system, so if you really want or need,
you can call C library functions and/or OS functions. Yes,
XBasic passes arguments by value and has an & (address)
operator so calling C functions is quite natural and transparent.
Both Linux XBasic and Windows XBasic are freeware.
http://www.maxreason.com/software/xbasic/xbasic.html
contains more information and you can download either
or both implementations from there. If you do, be sure
to join the XBasic mail-list forum to get and give help,
that's http://www.egroups.com/group/xbasic .
I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but like
they say - "there it is".
David M. Cook
>I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
>to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
If you want to develop software you should learn how to do this simple task.
Most packages are as easy as
tar xvzf foo.tgz
cd foo
./configure
make
make install
>I've looked at Glade and GTK++ and both appear Not Ready for Prime Time.
How so? I think glade works very nicely when combined with a good editor.
I think its especially cool that you can produce an xml file for your UI and
dynamically load it in a Python script. See
http://www.baypiggies.org/10mintig.html
>And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
There's Visual Tcl:
http://www.neuron.com/stewart/vtcl/
I agree with the crusty bizarre part, but not the unix part as there are
probably more people using tcl/tk on win32 than on unix.
Dave Cook
Christopher Browne
we would all be made wiser by knowing that:
>
>--------------F3C441BAD418DF0DD7371D9E
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Warren Postma wrote:
>
>> I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
>> to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
>>
>> probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
>> like it's at least headed in the right direction.
>
>but i don't mind doing it. And as i get better at c/c++, i'd like to play
>around with
>the sourcecode...
>
>And if you don't know what to do with those tarballs (and i get the
>impression you're one of them), you should learn. Cause GPL project
>i've come across update's their snapshots alot more often than their
>binary packages...
If the tools don't support pushing the sources, *including makefiles
and GUI schema,* out to CVS with the expectation that they can be
modified by others using their favorite tools [e.g. - not necessarily
KDevelop], and patches pulled back in, then the system is not going to
be maintainable.
>And how are you gonna distribute that Delphi-like plugin for KDevelop
>your gonna develop, if you don't know how to use tarballs? Maybe your
>gonna use RPM? He...
Which may betray forgetfulness that creating an RPM requires creating
a "tarball" containing the source code. Similar is true for *any*
packaging tool available on Linux that produces binary packages...
>If you like binarys so mutch, why don't you go back to Windows, and program
>alittle in Delphi(or VB if that could be called programming).
>--------------F3C441BAD418DF0DD7371D9E
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
Ah, well, if you were that much more competent, you'd not post HTML on
Usenet...
--
"For systems, the analogue of a face-lift is to add to the control
graph an edge that creates a cycle, not just an additional node."
-- Alan Perlis
cbbr...@hex.net- <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
Mark Hatch
provides the IDE and BX PRO provides the GUI building. There is software at
linux.ics.com that integrates BX PRO into Code Fusion. Linux Journal awarded
these products the Editor's Choice for 1999 as the best new development tool.
They called it the "first Visual C++ equivalent available on Linux".
Obviously, we're tooting our own horn here... But take a look for yourself.
Mark
Warren Postma wrote:
> There is no Visual Basic equivalent, and Delphi for Linux is rumoured to be
> in the works, but a ways off yet.
>
> I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
> to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
> Binaries are available from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
>
> I've looked at Glade and GTK++ and both appear Not Ready for Prime Time.
>
> And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
>
> Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
> latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
> like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
>
> I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I did, it would
> probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
> like it's at least headed in the right direction.
>
> Warren
Jan Panteltje
> You might be interested in XBasic, a 32-bit compiler with
> IDE and built-in GuiDesigner. XBasic is roughly equivalent
Is it stable now?
Last month it did not work very well.
IMNSHO (In MY Not So Humble Opinion) XBASIC is not ready for the masses yet,
at least not not the last time I looked.
Also YAOL (Yet An Other Language) to learn.
C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C c c c C C c C C c c C C c C C c C c suites me well.
Regards
Jan
Sebastien Tanguy
[...]
WP> And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language,
WP> without an IDE.
Unix language which runs on most Un*xes, Windows, MacOS, and which
*have* a few IDE available. Just look at the following URL
http://www.scriptics.com/resource/software/tools/
And you will find GUI-builders and others nice things.
WP> Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support
WP> for the latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable
WP> for serious use, like the evaluation version of JBuilder released
WP> from Borland.
As previously said, you will be able to find VisualAge for Java from
IBM, as a fully released product, or Sun's NetBeans.
WP> I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I
WP> did, it would probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in
WP> to KDevelop, which looks like it's at least headed in the right
WP> direction.
If you want/can, you're also really welcome, i'm sure, to contribute
to help other people build better free softwares.
greetings,
seb.
--
``Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important
stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)''
--- Linus Torvalds
max reason
>>
>> You might be interested in XBasic, a 32-bit compiler with
>> IDE and built-in GuiDesigner. XBasic is roughly equivalent
>
> Is it stable now?
> Last month it did not work very well.
> for the masses yet, at least not not the last time I looked.
Until a week ago, I had been without a Linux system for one year.
In that time several things changed in Linux (signals, xstat(), etc)
that made the formerly working version not work with many newer
distributions. So you are right, XBasic did not "work so well" for
many newer distributions, and with some it did not work at all.
But thankfully I am back on Linux now for a big long-term project,
and the first thing I did, with the help of a couple kind Linux gurus
to remind me about some things I forgot in that year, was get
XBasic running again. Of course now XBasic will not work with
old distributions I suspect - so my apologies to those folks now.
XBasic still has a couple known issues to address, but they are
not show stoppers. Maybe somebody can help resolve these:
1: XBasic wants to be able to create and place windows where
user programs say (when they don't say "let the WM choose").
This was a terrible struggle before, but I finally got it working.
Now it does not work, at least not reliably - depending on the
window manager. I also need a way to ask the window manager
what the border-width and title-bar-height of its windows are.
2: The assembly language syntax XBasic emits still works, but
now a few machine instructions generate warnings. Where is
the list of changes to "gas" assembly language mnemonics
since ~5 years ago when I first ported XBasic to Linux?
We fixed the obvious problems in Linux XBasic as quickly as
we could cuz lots of people have been waiting for this, so
probably there are a few other tweaks needed. But now
that I am back on the Linux saddle again, and have some
serious guru backup (thanks to "Eddie" mostly), XBasic
should now get more and more solid on short turnaround.
Sorry you had trouble before - you were not mistaken.
Jan Panteltje
> We fixed the obvious problems in Linux XBasic as quickly as
> we could cuz lots of people have been waiting for this, so
> probably there are a few other tweaks needed. But now
> that I am back on the Linux saddle again, and have some
> serious guru backup (thanks to "Eddie" mostly), XBasic
> should now get more and more solid on short turnaround.
>
> Sorry you had trouble before - you were not mistaken.
>
>
>
Linux version--
libc (or glibc) version..
Packages installed... (things you need to run, threads perhaps?)
Window managers tested...
I would like to know this before I try again.
(or not if my system is not compatible).
Knowing these things in advance saves a lot of time and problems.
Regards
Jan
Marc Britten
>
> On 19 Jan 2000 00:03:27 GMT, Chris Mach <cm...@cco.caltech.edu> concluded
> we would all be made wiser by knowing that:
> >gave it a good review in its IDE comparison. You can check it out at
> >www.newplanetsoftware.com
> >
> >It's still free,but if you want support and a big manual its about $60.
>
> The problem is that while Code Crusader may be a pretty neat IDE, it
> *isn't* a RAD environment as it doesn't include an application
> framework.
everything you said it true except the app framework, not wizards or
anything but JX is an app framework.
> It helps you neither with:
> a) Construction of GUI,
> b) Construction of DBMS schema, or
> c) Construction of UML schema.
>
> RAD tools by and large provide some support for those functions.
> --
> Know the list of "large, chronic problems". If there is any problem
> with the window system, blame it on the activity system. Any lack of
> user functionality should be attributed to the lack of a command
> processor. A suprisingly large number of people will believe that you
> have thought in depth about the issue to which you are alluding when you
> do.
> -- from the Symbolics Guidelines for Sending Mail
> cbbr...@ntlug.org- <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
Chris Mach
: There is no Visual Basic equivalent, and Delphi for Linux is rumoured to be
: in the works, but a ways off yet.
: I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
: to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
: Binaries are available from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
: I've looked at Glade and GTK++ and both appear Not Ready for Prime Time.
: And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
: Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
: latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
: like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
: I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I did, it would
: probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
: like it's at least headed in the right direction.
: Warren
For what it's worth you might check out Code Crusader. LinuxWorld gave it a good review
in its IDE comparison. You can check it out at www.newplanetsoftware.com
It's still free,but if you want support and a big manual its about $60.
Hope this helps
Chris
Christopher Browne
we would all be made wiser by knowing that:
>gave it a good review in its IDE comparison. You can check it out at
>www.newplanetsoftware.com
>
>It's still free,but if you want support and a big manual its about $60.
The problem is that while Code Crusader may be a pretty neat IDE, it
*isn't* a RAD environment as it doesn't include an application
framework.
It helps you neither with:
David Frantz
> Warren Postma (em...@geocities.com) wrote:
> : There is no Visual Basic equivalent, and Delphi for Linux is rumoured to be
> : in the works, but a ways off yet.
>
> : I've looked at KDevelop, which is interesting if you're the type who likes
> : to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
> : Binaries are available from last September, if you like, also. Ugh.
>
> : I've looked at Glade and GTK++ and both appear Not Ready for Prime Time.
>
> : And there's TCL/TK, but it's a crusty bizarre Unix language, without an IDE.
>
> : Is there even a decide commercial Java IDE for Linux with support for the
> : latest JDK, or is everything "demoware", and not suitable for serious use,
> : like the evaluation version of JBuilder released from Borland.
>
> : I'm a little unimpressed. Do I gotta build my own here? If I did, it would
> : probably be a contribution of a Delphi-like plug in to KDevelop, which looks
> : like it's at least headed in the right direction.
>
> : Warren
>
> For what it's worth you might check out Code Crusader. LinuxWorld gave it a good review
> in its IDE comparison. You can check it out at www.newplanetsoftware.com
>
> It's still free,but if you want support and a big manual its about $60.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Chris
Code Crusader is excellent as a suggestion. Another IDE to consider even though it is
not quite as far along is KDevelop. If your up to fixiing the occasional bug KDevelop
is progressing at a rapid pace. Unfortunately it would be hard to rccommend KDevelop
if you need very reliable software for that Code Crusader would be better.
Niether of these can be truely considered RADs. But that doesn't mean you can't
attempt to use glade or something with them.
dave
Christopher Browne
we would all be made wiser by knowing that:
>gave it a good review in its IDE comparison. You can check it out at
>www.newplanetsoftware.com
>
>It's still free,but if you want support and a big manual its about $60.
The problem is that while Code Crusader may be a pretty neat IDE, it
lvi...@cas.org
According to Warren Postma <em...@geocities.com>:
:if you're the type who likes
:to download "tarballs" and know what to do with them once you get them.
How are tarballs all that different from 'zipballs' of source code?
Or is the point you are trying to make here that you would rather just
download binary executables for the specific piece of hardware and version
of OS that you are using?
In response to the rest of the msg you posted, I know one fellow who frequently
refers to a commercial product called MetaCard when discussions of Unix
RAD arise... I believe the URL is <URL: http://www.metacard.com/ >.
--
<URL: mailto:lvi...@cas.org> <URL: http://www.usenix.org/events/tcl2k/>
<*> O- <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/> Tcl2K - Austin, Texas, US
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
lvi...@cas.org
According to David M. Cook <dave...@home.com>:
:I agree with the crusty bizarre part, but not the unix part as there are
:probably more people using tcl/tk on win32 than on unix.
Certainly many more downloads of tcl and tk for Windows than for any other
of the several dozen platforms.
Anyone want to be a _little_ more specific about the crusty and bizarre
part though? Bizarre compared to what? Visual Basic - a language only
available on one OS? Or perhaps Perl? Python - each line of which has
indentation requirements? Or perhaps Java, which still presents all sorts
of challenges to developers trying to do cross platform. Or perhaps Rebol,
where you can't add new functionality to the language - you have to open
up channels to programs written in other languages when you reach the
edge of what the language supports. Or perhaps C++ where it becomes almost
impossible to look at the code and understand what it does without having
every header, template, etc. at your fingertips. Etc. Every language
has something that causes someone concern/grief/pain. Shrug.