OK, y'all get your wishes granted
Simon Cooke
For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
no bearing on my opinions.
Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers, and
is threatening to write to their customers.
My responses to insults and attacks on my person have always been vicious;
I've never seen any need to pussyfoot around when someone else is attacking
me. Unfortunately, some people here don't understand the difference between
words on a Usenet group and attacking someone in real life. They also don't
seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, when people attack you for your
opinions for years on end that you don't have to, need to, or want to take
it likely. The natural reaction is to fight back using any and all means at
your disposal.
But you never cross that line.
That line has been crossed. Thank you, Mr. Mentohl.
A lot of the people performing these attacks see nothing wrong with their
behavior. Yet some of them post anonymously. Still others don't post their
employment information, nor do they want that information posted. Yet they
see nothing wrong with turning it around and attacking someone else with
the same methods they themselves claim to deplore.
This is hypocrisy. It's also the same tactics used day in, and day out by
the supposed "advocates" which litter COLA, drowning out the true Linux
advocates.
Like Slashdot, what could have been a forum for true debate has been
drowned out by people posting under what they claim is a cover of
anonymity. If it's online, they feel, it doesn't matter what they post. As
long as it furthers their political goals, anything goes. This includes
lying about where people work -- at the same time as harassing those people
at the places they *do* work.
Time and time again the posters here have claimed that I'm paid by
Microsoft to post here. This is a lie. They perform statistical analysis on
my posting habits, or on others, claiming that they're posted by more than
one person. They disbelieve that any one person could know a large amount
of information regarding broad topics - and claim that this person is
actually a gang of people employed by Microsoft to post here.
All of these tactics are an attempt to keep dissenters quiet. And when
people get sick of them, they are painted as the bad guys. When all it
would take would be for other - more rational - posters to this group to
reign in the bullies and liars in their own numbers.
My home address and phone number are online. Check the archives. I'm not
anonymous. I never have been. And I've never lied about my employment.
So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
They will stop at nothing to shut you up.
They will hound you for years.
They will email your employer.
They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity.
They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return
fire.
They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
saying.
They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind of
criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they can
muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
everyone.
Simon
Humble.Life
Well, whilst I don't like what "they" have done. Your posts never reflected
the rest of "us".
Also, your last statement is pretty much Microsofts mission-statement.
manfrommars_43
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
the damage has already been done.
you publicly stated that you
would assault me in my own
home.
you threatened me with
physical violence.
you published private information
in a public place and made
libellious remarks.
you are a foreigner living
in MY COUNTRY, the USA,
and AT OUR DISCRETION AND
WITH OUR HOSPITALITY you
are employed here.
Simon- You have violated
the trust of the American
people and made a disgrace
of yourself, the the peoples
of Great Britain, for whom,
I have nothing but the greatest
love and the highest respect,
because of their intelligence,
wit, and great contribution
to humanity.
Simon -- I would like to see you
deported, but because I love
the English so much, I would not
wish that upon them.
So, please, stay here. And publish
in COLA all you want. For god's
sake, it keeps you off the streets...
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo
finders storyTeller
Peter Köhlmann
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
How often did we read this, just to be disappointed again?
> snip typical whining Simon Cooke bullshit "they are doing this to me...
baaahh, they are evil">
--
This problem was sponsored by Microsoft
Roy Culley
Simon Cooke <simon...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
> For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
> employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
> reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
> no bearing on my opinions.
>
> Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
> saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
>
> Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers, and
> is threatening to write to their customers.
You probably won't believe me Simon but I do not condone what Doug
Mentohl has done. I did email your ISP about the obscene content of
one of your posts as I do believe anyone who posts such things should
be taught a lesson. However, that is no reason to involve your
employer.
Your leaving COLA though I think is a good thing for you personally. I'm
a Linux advocate and extremely anti-MS as anyone who reads my posts will
know. However, COLA for me is a place for having fun. You do take things
far too seriously and no doubt some people, myself definitely included,
take advantage of that. The fact that you post so many articles shows
that COLA was dominating your life. That is not a good thing.
You are far from stupid Simon but to waste so much time in COLA
indicates to me a sort of obsession. I'm old and well past my sell by
date and hence COLA is a place I can spend my spare time enjoying the
posts from other Linux advocates and joining in a few flame wars with
the wintrolls. If I were younger I'd be spending my time writing code
like I used to do 10 to 15 years ago.
I truly hope that your employment hasn't been put in jeopardy. If
there is anything I can do to help in case it has then you may email
me replacing the rgc with my real name and an appropriate '.'. I mean
this most sincerely although I doubt that I can be of help. The offer
is there anyway.
I'm actually very saddened that Doug Mentohl, I haven't a clue as to
who this person is, has done this. It is certainly something that
I would never stoop to.
So from a person who has no doubt unjustly flamed you in the past
many times for the sheer sport of it I wish you good luck.
Erik Funkenbusch
> I'm actually very saddened that Doug Mentohl, I haven't a clue as to
> who this person is, has done this. It is certainly something that
> I would never stoop to.
Most likely Daeron, since he's the one that posted it. I'd have to
wonder how he got his hands on someone elses private email otherwise.
> So from a person who has no doubt unjustly flamed you in the past
> many times for the sheer sport of it I wish you good luck.
Perhaps I misjudged you, Roy. I assumed that you too took things way
too personally, but perhaps I was wrong.
Roy Culley
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> writes:
> Roy Culley wrote:
>
>> I'm actually very saddened that Doug Mentohl, I haven't a clue as to
>> who this person is, has done this. It is certainly something that
>> I would never stoop to.
>
> Most likely Daeron, since he's the one that posted it. I'd have to
> wonder how he got his hands on someone elses private email otherwise.
Then I would be even more saddened.
>> So from a person who has no doubt unjustly flamed you in the past
>> many times for the sheer sport of it I wish you good luck.
>
> Perhaps I misjudged you, Roy. I assumed that you too took things
> way too personally, but perhaps I was wrong.
In this case you definitely were wrong. You've said many times that
you post here because it is fun. Same for me too. Now lets gets back
to being serious. :-)
manfrommars_43
> I truly hope that your employment hasn't been put in jeopardy. If
i would like to see him deported, but
not back to England, a country I love.
Preferably to North Korea...perhaps
he could help there...
T.G. Reaper
>Simon Cooke <simon...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> I'm not going to post here any more.
> I'm actually very saddened that Doug Mentohl, I haven't a clue as to
> who this person is, has done this. It is certainly something that
> I would never stoop to.
>
> So from a person who has no doubt unjustly flamed you in the past
> many times for the sheer sport of it I wish you good luck.
That was a very class gesture Roy, well done.
--
Cheers
T.G. Reaper
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
I agree that actions like theirs, are bad, foolish, and just generally
not nice. Frankly, they appall me.
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
> acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
> everyone.
>
Their actions have nothing to do with the technical merits of any OS,
Linux or otherwise.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()
Tim Smith
> Most likely Daeron, since he's the one that posted it. I'd have to
> wonder how he got his hands on someone elses private email otherwise.
There was a Daeron post a while back where he seems to have used a real
name instead of that alias, but I don't remember enough about it to find
it in Google. Maybe someone else does?
--
Evidence Eliminator is worthless: www.evidence-eliminator-sucks.com
--Tim Smith
manfrommars_43
> In article <Zjv4b.320018$uu5.65879@sccrnsc04>, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> Most likely Daeron, since he's the one that posted it. I'd have to
>> wonder how he got his hands on someone elses private email otherwise.
>
> There was a Daeron post a while back where he seems to have used a real
> name instead of that alias, but I don't remember enough about it to find
> it in Google. Maybe someone else does?
Daeron is the one true
Linux advocate.
persevering and consistent
he leads us...
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
um, ditto. :)
Frankly, the juvenile attacks on Simon are embarrasing at best. I for
one, don't condone them. Simon allready knows this.
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=AYhs
Michael Vondung
wrote:
>So from a person who has no doubt unjustly flamed you in the past
>many times for the sheer sport of it I wish you good luck.
Compared to everyone else here, I'm very new in COLA still, so this
might not mean much, but: Thank you for being so thoughtful about this
and not kicking someone who is already on the ground. This is
respectable of you. :)
M.
allison_...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>I'm not going to post here any more.
Me either.
>For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
>employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
>reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
>no bearing on my opinions.
>
>Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
>saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
>
>Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers, and
>is threatening to write to their customers.
It hasn't taken me long to realize that the linux community and this group
in particular is filled with psychopaths who will stoop to even the lowest
level to personally attack any person who does not offer positive reviews
of linux proper.The final joke is really on them though because the new
user looking for help is apt to stumble upon this cesspool of
semi-humnanity first when looking for linux groups, but only because it is
second in the list of comp.os.linux.* .
>So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
>
>They will stop at nothing to shut you up.
>They will hound you for years.
>They will email your employer.
>They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity.
>They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return
>fire.
>They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
>saying.
>They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind of
>criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they can
>muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
>sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
This group is about 95 percent total bull crap and 5 percent fact and
that's being generous.It's like the idiots at the asylum have all escaped
and are shaking each others hands for doing such a great job yet they
neglect to thank the guard who gave them the keys because he felt sorry for
them.
>>Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
>acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
>everyone.
Normal people aren't interested in operating systems because they are
boring.The computer has finally become "personal" and linux is doing it's
best to turn back the clock 15 years to command lines and editors. Long
live edlin! Someday, maybe, the linux community will wake up from it's drug
induced state and realize that it is the year 2010 and they missed their
chance at overtaking Windows.
Tootles! Allison Hunt
>
>Simon
Tattoo Vampire
> Normal people aren't interested in operating systems because they are
> boring.
"Normal" people has better get interested in operating systems (again)
because the current crop of viruses and worms is going to get far worse.
People with some technical proficiency are better prepared for such events.
--
[tv]
"I'm dead, Jim." - DeForest Kelley, June 11, 1999
Bones
Not only am I reading the same shit as was here 8 months ago, but now I see
we've gone up to the level of personal vendetta. As if the "Terry is
dead..." stuff wasn't bad enough.
--
Bones
(fakemccoy at <i don't have an e-mail address anymore>)
Linønut
> It hasn't taken me long to realize that the linux community and this
> group in particular is filled with psychopaths who will stoop to even
> the lowest level to personally attack any person who does not offer
> positive reviews of linux proper.The final joke is really on them
> though because the new user looking for help is apt to stumble upon
> this cesspool of semi-humnanity first when looking for linux groups,
> but only because it is second in the list of comp.os.linux.* .
You really like it here, don't you?
> This group is about 95 percent total bull crap and 5 percent fact and
> that's being generous.It's like the idiots at the asylum have all escaped
> and are shaking each others hands for doing such a great job yet they
> neglect to thank the guard who gave them the keys because he felt sorry for
> them.
Thanks are due to you and your ilk for your 95% contribution.
> Tootles! Allison Hunt
--
Rejuvenate your hardware with GNU/Linux!
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> Simon Cooke wrote:
>
>> I'm not going to post here any more.
>>
>
> How often did we read this, just to be disappointed again?
Simon Cooke has been her for at least 5 years, he couldn't leave if he
wanted to.
How many times has Flatfish done the same thing ?
>
>> snip typical whining Simon Cooke bullshit "they are doing this to me...
> baaahh, they are evil">
> --
> This problem was sponsored by Microsoft
Indeed!
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Gentoo-1.4_rc2
New Homepage: http://milkstone.d2.net.au/
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> I'm not going to post here any more.
<deletia>
Please find a pro Windows group and stay there, your incessant
GNU/Linux attacks have worn thin after 5 years.
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> I'm not going to post here any more.
<deletia>
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
> acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
> everyone.
As far as 'the dregs of society' are concerned, this poster is the only
person I've ever seen post "and your brother gave me head".
Pot kettle, very black.
This poster has lost touch with reality. This is COLA, and pro
GNU/Linux posts are what we do here.
What kind of nonsense is "push their political goals on everyone" ?
Is that a mirror of "push their bloated, expensive, buggy, virus ridden
os on everyone, using their monopoly power" ?
Rob Hughes
comp.os.linux.advocacy:
<load of codswollop snipped>
> Tootles! Allison Hunt
Does this, perhaps, mean you're leaving too? O! Bestill my beating heart...
--
begin 664 .sig
Standards are wonderful. There's enough for everyone to have their own.
Remember: the only difference between being the champ and the chump is u.
end
Tattoo Vampire
> Does this, perhaps, mean you're leaving too? O! Bestill my beating heart...
Flatfish never leaves, he/she just comes back under a different alias and
pretends to be a new user of the group.
Flatty doesn't seem to understand that everyone knows why all these new
people seem to never have any posting history according to Google. :-)
GreyCloud
Well, I suspect my post is at the end of the line here. I
*was* trying to get people to talk about gcc options and how
to better use a compiler for projects, but it didn't
happen. I did like Sierras older games tho that your group
wrote and which I still use. About the only games that I do
play. But I was hoping that you would have helped in others
understanding of when and where to use certain compiler
options in a program. But I recognized early on that you
weren't like the others and you may remember that I didn't
pursue that course.
Oh well, hope what you are doing is enjoyable and rewarding.
Peter
>This group is about 95 percent total bull crap and 5 percent fact and
>that's being generous.
Pretty un lady-like.
See:
http://www.misweb.com/magarticle.asp?doc_id=22256&rgid=15&listed_months=0
They know all about bulls**t, both figurative and real as they supply
farmers. They have gone to Linux and have no regrets. They are
pragmatic too - in their neck of the woods, speeds are slow, and
bandwidth expensive.
Everything from bulls' nose rings to the 'one ring that rules them
all', Linux does it.
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> allison_...@yahoo.com is alleged to have said in
> comp.os.linux.advocacy:
>
><load of codswollop snipped>
>
>> Tootles! Allison Hunt
>
> Does this, perhaps, mean you're leaving too? O! Bestill my beating heart...
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Flatfish to leave!
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> Wow, has this group gone to Hell in a hand-basket.
>
> Not only am I reading the same shit as was here 8 months ago, but now I see
> we've gone up to the level of personal vendetta. As if the "Terry is
> dead..." stuff wasn't bad enough.
Hi Bones :)
It seems that if I *was* dead, that I've got better ;-)
Sinister Midget
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
> For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
> employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
> reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
> no bearing on my opinions.
>
> Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
> saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
One of them pointed to a publicly accessible web page. Not his fault
you put it there, or allowed someone else to ut it there.
> Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers, and
> is threatening to write to their customers.
>
>
>
> My responses to insults and attacks on my person have always been vicious;
> I've never seen any need to pussyfoot around when someone else is attacking
> me. Unfortunately, some people here don't understand the difference between
> words on a Usenet group and attacking someone in real life.
*YOU* were the one to take anything to be tantamount to a physical
attack on your person. *YOU* are the one exhibiting signs of being
unable to distinguish what is usenet and what is real life.
> They also don't
> seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, when people attack you for your
> opinions for years on end that you don't have to, need to, or want to take
> it likely. The natural reaction is to fight back using any and all means at
> your disposal.
An example of what I just wrote above. More than that, *YOU* could have
ended it at any time through various means: killfiles, playing nice (in
essence, removing motivation), going away, refusing to repond to
certain types of posts. The fact that *YOU* were unable to do any or
all of those things does not make it the fault of others, no matter
their motivation.
> But you never cross that line.
>
> That line has been crossed. Thank you, Mr. Mentohl.
>
>
> A lot of the people performing these attacks see nothing wrong with their
> behavior. Yet some of them post anonymously. Still others don't post their
> employment information, nor do they want that information posted. Yet they
> see nothing wrong with turning it around and attacking someone else with
> the same methods they themselves claim to deplore.
I've stated my name. You've even tried taunting me by using it. I've
also mentioned my occupation. I've stated who I am and what I do. So I
can't be part of the crowd you're whinging about.
Who are those members? Primarily, they're people who are ostensibly
your allies, most of which you've never seen fit to whinge about when
you were whinging about others spelling your name wrong. I can only
recall seeing one such complaint from you concerning those you're now
bemoaning (in word, though I know you mean the people you don't like
irrespective of their posting history or methods). I've seen endless
crying and complaining about others during the same period.
> This is hypocrisy.
Yes it is, hypocrit.
> It's also the same tactics used day in, and day out by
> the supposed "advocates" which litter COLA, drowning out the true Linux
> advocates.
Yes, the WinDoze "advocates" who hang about. The "advocates" that can't
find in within themselves to go and "advocate" that which they use. The
"advocates" that are only content to disrupt a group dealing with
something they don't like or use.
>
>
>
> Like Slashdot, what could have been a forum for true debate has been
> drowned out by people posting under what they claim is a cover of
> anonymity. If it's online, they feel, it doesn't matter what they post. As
> long as it furthers their political goals, anything goes. This includes
> lying about where people work -- at the same time as harassing those people
> at the places they *do* work.
>
>
> Time and time again the posters here have claimed that I'm paid by
> Microsoft to post here. This is a lie. They perform statistical analysis on
> my posting habits, or on others, claiming that they're posted by more than
> one person. They disbelieve that any one person could know a large amount
> of information regarding broad topics - and claim that this person is
> actually a gang of people employed by Microsoft to post here.
You have another problem concerning differentiation. You can't see that
some things are said with tongue planted in cheek. You can't tell when
someone is obviously joshing and when they're serious. You can't
separate fact from hyperbole, possibly because, in your world, they're
one and the same.
> All of these tactics are an attempt to keep dissenters quiet. And when
> people get sick of them, they are painted as the bad guys. When all it
> would take would be for other - more rational - posters to this group to
> reign in the bullies and liars in their own numbers.
Oh goody. An appeal to the moderation element who are supposed to
overlook your warts while "reigning in" those who say things you don't
want them saying.
> My home address and phone number are online. Check the archives. I'm not
> anonymous. I never have been. And I've never lied about my employment.
No comment.
> So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
I think your tinfoil hat fell off. It's right over there ----->
> They will stop at nothing to shut you up.
> They will hound you for years.
> They will email your employer.
> They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity.
Like, say, joining a mailing list, posting under a pseudonym to confirm
an email address, then sending an email inviting casual sex with
someone, right?
> They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return
> fire.
> They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
> saying.
*sniff*
> They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind of
> criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they can
> muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
> sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
You forgot a few, mainly because they apply to the other side of the
equation:
They will make light of dead relatives.
They will make fun of your children's handicaps.
They will associate you with the worst dregs of zealotry in existence.
They will attack your sexuality.
There are plenty more. That's enough. I think you get the picture.
>
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
> acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
> everyone.
Thank you Mr. Gate$. I haven't seen any fresh marketspeak from you in,
oh, 20 minutes or so.
> Simon
No comment.
--
XP: The ME of NT.
Jazz
> I'm not going to post here any more.
'bye now.
--
Jazz.
"Curculionem Darl McBride minusculum habet."
(Cato - Pro Lino; Apocrypha)
Rick
(snip)
> Normal people aren't interested in operating systems because they are
> boring.The computer has finally become "personal" and linux is doing it's
> best to turn back the clock 15 years to command lines and editors.
Are you stupid or lying? Both? You have just proved you either are lying
or haven't actually installed and used Linux lately.
> Long
> live edlin! Someday, maybe, the linux community will wake up from it's
> drug induced state and realize that it is the year 2010 and they missed
> their chance at overtaking Windows.
> Tootles! Allison Hunt
Get a clue. Buy one if you have to Allison Hunt.
--
Rick
Daeron
> >
> > employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
> > reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
> > no bearing on my opinions.
> >
> > Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
> > saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
> >
> > is threatening to write to their customers.
> You probably won't believe me Simon but I do not condone what Doug
> Mentohl has done. I did email your ISP about the obscene content of
> one of your posts as I do believe anyone who posts such things should
> be taught a lesson. However, that is no reason to involve your
> employer.
Simon set the agenda a long time ago. He accused me of backing off in
one post.
I replied that no quater asked for, no quater given. He's had ample
oppertunity to mend his ways. Rather than improve he's got worse.
It was the least I could do ;_D
<snip>
Luca T.
> I'm not going to post here any more.
How will you survive?
Bye,
Luca
Rick
Maybe Simon can find some way to successfully sue. That would be
interesting.
--
Rick
Mr. Berserker
> I'm not going to post here any more.
Sure you won't, Simone Kook.
>
> For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
> employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
> reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
> no bearing on my opinions.
M$ have no bearing on your opinions?
>
> Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
> saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
How did they get it?
>
> Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers,
Does that have anything to do with the 'your brother gave me head'
remarks??
and
> is threatening to write to their customers.
>
>
>
> My responses to insults and attacks on my person have always been vicious;
No, they've been repetitive, dreary, and phonetically awkward (such as
'Roy McFuckey').
> I've never seen any need to pussyfoot around when someone else is attacking
> me. Unfortunately, some people here don't understand the difference between
> words on a Usenet group and attacking someone in real life. They also don't
> seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, when people attack you for your
> opinions for years on end that you don't have to, need to, or want to take
> it likely.
Then get out...
The natural reaction is to fight back using any and all means at
> your disposal.
>
> But you never cross that line.
I think there are some other lines that should not be crossed like,
say, attacking Bo Grimes' autistic children.
>
> That line has been crossed. Thank you, Mr. Mentohl.
>
>
> A lot of the people performing these attacks see nothing wrong with their
> behavior. Yet some of them post anonymously. Still others don't post their
> employment information, nor do they want that information posted. Yet they
> see nothing wrong with turning it around and attacking someone else with
> the same methods they themselves claim to deplore.
>
> This is hypocrisy.
What, like calling me a 'fucking moron' for using JPEG in screenshots
and not saying anything about the $CO screenshots? I don't agree with
them posting employent information, but if it's already on a web page,
then why complain??
It's also the same tactics used day in, and day out by
> the supposed "advocates" which litter COLA, drowning out the true Linux
> advocates.
>
>
>
> Like Slashdot, what could have been a forum for true debate has been
> drowned out by people posting under what they claim is a cover of
> anonymity. If it's online, they feel, it doesn't matter what they post. As
> long as it furthers their political goals, anything goes. This includes
> lying about where people work -- at the same time as harassing those people
> at the places they *do* work.
What bleedin' political goals?
>
>
> Time and time again the posters here have claimed that I'm paid by
> Microsoft to post here. This is a lie.
Some of them say it in jest. I personally cannot say with absolute
certainty, but it is very likely.
They perform statistical analysis on
> my posting habits, or on others, claiming that they're posted by more than
> one person. They disbelieve that any one person could know a large amount
> of information regarding broad topics - and claim that this person is
> actually a gang of people employed by Microsoft to post here.
>
> All of these tactics are an attempt to keep dissenters quiet. And when
> people get sick of them, they are painted as the bad guys.
Yes. They are painted as 'trolls'. Ever hear of a 'troll'?
When all it
> would take would be for other - more rational - posters to this group to
> reign in the bullies and liars in their own numbers.
>
> My home address and phone number are online. Check the archives. I'm not
> anonymous. I never have been. And I've never lied about my employment.
>
> So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
>
> They will stop at nothing to shut you up.
Interesting. M$ are all about devastating whoever disagrees with them.
And you were here to support them.
> They will hound you for years.
You've been posting for five years here, poofta.
> They will email your employer.
I didn't.
> They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity.
> They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return
> fire.
What was your trolling all about, Simone? Was it for your health?
> They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
> saying.
Heh heh, sounds familiar. Names like 'Roy McFuckey'?
> They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind of
> criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they can
> muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
> sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
Lies? Could you point some out?
>
>
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
> acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
> everyone.
UN Development Programme disagree I deem.
>
>
> Simone
Peter Köhlmann
This super asshole would get his fingers slammed by every judge on earth
--
We may not return the affection of those who like us,
but we always respect their good judgement.
Ian Hilliard
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
> For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
> employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see
> any reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business,
> and has no bearing on my opinions.
>
> Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke
> - saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
>
> Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers,
> and is threatening to write to their customers.
>
>
>
> My responses to insults and attacks on my person have always been
> vicious; I've never seen any need to pussyfoot around when someone else
> is attacking me. Unfortunately, some people here don't understand the
> difference between words on a Usenet group and attacking someone in real
> life. They also don't seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, when
> people attack you for your opinions for years on end that you don't have
> to, need to, or want to take it likely. The natural reaction is to fight
> back using any and all means at your disposal.
>
> But you never cross that line.
>
> That line has been crossed. Thank you, Mr. Mentohl.
>
>
> A lot of the people performing these attacks see nothing wrong with
> their behavior. Yet some of them post anonymously. Still others don't
> post their employment information, nor do they want that information
> posted. Yet they see nothing wrong with turning it around and attacking
> someone else with the same methods they themselves claim to deplore.
>
> This is hypocrisy. It's also the same tactics used day in, and day out
> by the supposed "advocates" which litter COLA, drowning out the true
> Linux advocates.
>
>
>
> Like Slashdot, what could have been a forum for true debate has been
> drowned out by people posting under what they claim is a cover of
> anonymity. If it's online, they feel, it doesn't matter what they post.
> As long as it furthers their political goals, anything goes. This
> includes lying about where people work -- at the same time as harassing
> those people at the places they *do* work.
>
>
> Time and time again the posters here have claimed that I'm paid by
> Microsoft to post here. This is a lie. They perform statistical analysis
> on my posting habits, or on others, claiming that they're posted by more
> than one person. They disbelieve that any one person could know a large
> amount of information regarding broad topics - and claim that this
> person is actually a gang of people employed by Microsoft to post here.
>
> All of these tactics are an attempt to keep dissenters quiet. And when
> people get sick of them, they are painted as the bad guys. When all it
> would take would be for other - more rational - posters to this group to
> reign in the bullies and liars in their own numbers.
>
> My home address and phone number are online. Check the archives. I'm not
> anonymous. I never have been. And I've never lied about my employment.
>
> So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
>
> They will stop at nothing to shut you up. They will hound you for years.
> They will email your employer.
> They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity. They will
> attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return fire.
> They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
> saying.
> They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind
> of criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they
> can muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
> sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
>
>
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its
> community acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their
> political goals on everyone.
>
>
> Simon
I strongly disagree with most of what Simon has to say, but I will fight
to the death to support his right to say them.
It is true, that Simon often goes over the top, when he is losing an
argument, but that does not make it correct to affect his employment for
that reason. It is a well know fact, that two wrongs do not make a right.
Many accuse Simon of working for Microsoft as a FUD merchant. I don't
believe this to be the case. Simon is much too fervent for that. I am
convinced, that Simon is a 'true believer' in the Microsoft cause. Some
might liken that to being a member of the 'Brown Shirts'. The point is,
that he is so convinced of the rightness of the Microsoft solution, he
can't see how wrong it is.
One thing, that is clear; All the name calling and mud slinging that goes
on in COLA is no way to convince an onlooker, that Linux is a good
solution for their problem. It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls
with the facts, rather than with name calling. This way, the facts get out
into the public domain for all to see. It is also important to realize,
that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been lost.
Most onlookers realize that.
Hence, I say, let all the Simons in the world come into C.O.L.A. and let's
just shoot them down, using good debating skills and the facts. That would
be true advocacy.
Ian
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
<deletia>
> I strongly disagree with most of what Simon has to say, but I will fight
> to the death to support his right to say them.
>
> It is true, that Simon often goes over the top, when he is losing an
> argument, but that does not make it correct to affect his employment for
> that reason. It is a well know fact, that two wrongs do not make a right.
>
> Many accuse Simon of working for Microsoft as a FUD merchant. I don't
> believe this to be the case. Simon is much too fervent for that. I am
> convinced, that Simon is a 'true believer' in the Microsoft cause. Some
> might liken that to being a member of the 'Brown Shirts'. The point is,
> that he is so convinced of the rightness of the Microsoft solution, he
> can't see how wrong it is.
>
> One thing, that is clear; All the name calling and mud slinging that goes
> on in COLA is no way to convince an onlooker, that Linux is a good
> solution for their problem.
If I hear any more of this "politically correct" speak, I'm going to
throw up.
> It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls
> with the facts, rather than with name calling.
Have you been in a vacuum lately Mr Hilliard ? The Wintrolls aren't
interested *in the facts*, in fact they wish to steer as far away from
them as possible.
> This way, the facts get out
> into the public domain for all to see.
So will the FUD, or do you think people like EF will idly sit back and
let the thread lead to the "facts" ?
> It is also important to realize,
> that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been lost.
> Most onlookers realize that.
Nonsense, light abuse is the Cola way of showing a Wintroll what we
think of them.
I've never *ever* seen a GNU/Linux advocate insult people the way Simon
Cooke has, that man has no class at all.
>
> Hence, I say, let all the Simons in the world come into C.O.L.A. and let's
> just shoot them down, using good debating skills and the facts.
Dream on. And while you're being so sacharin sweet, please take a trip
to one of the Windows advocacy news groups and you will soon see that
in comparison Cola is a haven for reasonable debate.
> That would be true advocacy.
That would be true ignorance.
manfrommars_43
> I've never *ever* seen a GNU/Linux advocate insult people the way Simon
> Cooke has, that man has no class at all.
simon should still post here: he just shouldn't the
the 'top poster'. i mean, let's face it, part of
the reason people come to COLA (i think) is as an
escape from the constant barge of lies and FUD in
the traditional media. yes, it's good to 'challenge'
the arguments of people, but it's also good to
let ideas generate and threads grown without someone
crushing them.
that is, Simon would be a well liked opposition
party member if he were to cut his venom to 1/4
the dose. then, like a homeopathic remedy he
would benefit COLA.
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo
finders storyTeller
Ian Hilliard
The Wintrolls try to derail the debate. It is up to the Linux advocates to
keep the debate on track.
>> This way, the facts get out
>> into the public domain for all to see.
>
> So will the FUD, or do you think people like EF will idly sit back and
> let the thread lead to the "facts" ?
Unfortunately, the Linux advocates let the debate be lead off subject. I
have seen it time and time again. It the Linux advocates were to keep
bring the thread back onto the subject, then the Wintrolls would be
crushed. The truth is the stronges weapon, that we have.
>> It is also important to realize,
>> that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been
>> lost. Most onlookers realize that.
>
> Nonsense, light abuse is the Cola way of showing a Wintroll what we
> think of them.
By dropping to the Wintroll level is not good Linux advocacy.
> I've never *ever* seen a GNU/Linux advocate insult people the way Simon
> Cooke has, that man has no class at all.
>
>
Simon behaves like a pig when he is losing a debate, but that is no excuse
to drop to his level. If we were to stick to the facts, we would be far
more successful in crushing the Wintrolls.
>> Hence, I say, let all the Simons in the world come into C.O.L.A. and
>> let's just shoot them down, using good debating skills and the facts.
>
> Dream on. And while you're being so sacharin sweet, please take a trip
> to one of the Windows advocacy news groups and you will soon see that in
> comparison Cola is a haven for reasonable debate.
>
>
I think you're talking about the wrong bloke. I'm anything but sweet, I
just know, that a well considered argument and keeping ones temper in the
face of the total stupidity displayed by Windows advocates, will in the
end crush the stupid fools. The crushing will be complete, because these
fools can't argue against the truth. All they can do is change the
subject.
>> That would be true advocacy.
>
>
> That would be true ignorance.
It is not ignorance. I deal with incredibly stupid programmers, who know
nothing but Windows, all the time. These people lose in the end, because
there is no longer any reason to stick with Windows, except for lethargy
and stupidity.
Ian
paul cooke
>>> It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls with the facts, rather
>>> than with name calling.
>>
>> Have you been in a vacuum lately Mr Hilliard ? The Wintrolls aren't
>> interested *in the facts*, in fact they wish to steer as far away from
>> them as possible.
>
> The Wintrolls try to derail the debate. It is up to the Linux advocates
> to keep the debate on track.
>
>
I did this several times with Erik... it worked well... unfortunately, the
others failed to notice how well the tactic was working against Erik....
>>> This way, the facts get out
>>> into the public domain for all to see.
>>
>> So will the FUD, or do you think people like EF will idly sit back and
>> let the thread lead to the "facts" ?
>
> Unfortunately, the Linux advocates let the debate be lead off subject. I
> have seen it time and time again. It the Linux advocates were to keep
> bring the thread back onto the subject, then the Wintrolls would be
> crushed. The truth is the stronges weapon, that we have.
Erik hates being dragged back to the subject of the thread... he loves to
drag it off into little known technical minutia like the exact details of
how hypothetically Linux could if persuaded with _extreme_ _user_
_intervention_, execute untrusted code downloaded via an email... or into
an anti-GPL bent...
--
Has your ms-windows computer been turned into a SPAM server???
<http://www.computerweekly.com/Article123378.htm>
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:28:10 +0200,
Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> I strongly disagree with most of what Simon has to say, but I will fight
> to the death to support his right to say them.
>
> It is true, that Simon often goes over the top, when he is losing an
> argument, but that does not make it correct to affect his employment for
> that reason. It is a well know fact, that two wrongs do not make a right.
>
> Many accuse Simon of working for Microsoft as a FUD merchant. I don't
> believe this to be the case. Simon is much too fervent for that. I am
> convinced, that Simon is a 'true believer' in the Microsoft cause. Some
> might liken that to being a member of the 'Brown Shirts'. The point is,
> that he is so convinced of the rightness of the Microsoft solution, he
> can't see how wrong it is.
>
> One thing, that is clear; All the name calling and mud slinging that goes
> on in COLA is no way to convince an onlooker, that Linux is a good
> solution for their problem. It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls
> with the facts, rather than with name calling. This way, the facts get out
> into the public domain for all to see. It is also important to realize,
> that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been lost.
> Most onlookers realize that.
>
> Hence, I say, let all the Simons in the world come into C.O.L.A. and let's
> just shoot them down, using good debating skills and the facts. That would
> be true advocacy.
>
> Ian
bravissimo!
I disagree with Simon vehemently on many issues, and I sure didn't like
his comments re: "dead brother" I found them in poor taste and lacking
in class, but that doesn't mean that the attacks on Simon outside of
COLA were acceptable or warranted. 'nough said.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 10:10 PM, Simon Cooke <simon...@earthlink.net> said:
>Subject: OK, y'all get your wishes granted
Afraid not.
>I'm not going to post here any more.
ROTF,LMAO! You greatly overrate your own importance. I can't speak for
anyone else, but my wish to see darl and bill sharing the same cell is
far stronger than my wish to see you go away. My wish for a good free
PL/I compiler on Linux is far stronger than my wish to see the last of
you. My wish to see the last spammer on Earth thrown into the LaBrea
Tar Pits is far stronger than anything I might wish for you. The list
goes on; you rank way down at the bottom.
>So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people,
>beware.
"These people" contradict each other, without the results you
describe. Assuming that you are telling the truth about it, something
else is involved beyond simple disagreement.
>They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to
>return fire.
And that is different from what you do because?
>Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its
>community acts like the dregs of society,
Look, tonto, this is an unmoderated advocacy news group, not a
fraternity. You want to post here, nobody can stop you. somebody wants
to say bad things about you, nobody can stop them. You don't like
their unflattering references, and they don't like your windoze
advocacy on a Linux advocacy group. From what I've seen here, it's the
wintrolls here who are acting like the dregs of society.
Further, I seriously doubt that anybody is going to make a decision
for or against Linux because the articles in an advocacy group look
like articles on Usenet.
>attempting to push their political goals on everyone.
Are you under the impression that everyone interested in Linux shares
the same political goals? If so, you're not just living on a different
planet, you're living in a different universe.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Any unsolicited bulk E-mail will be subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail.
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply
to spam...@library.lspace.org
Tattoo Vampire
> One thing, that is clear; All the name calling and mud slinging that goes
> on in COLA is no way to convince an onlooker, that Linux is a good
> solution for their problem. It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls
> with the facts, rather than with name calling. This way, the facts get out
> into the public domain for all to see. It is also important to realize,
> that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been lost.
> Most onlookers realize that.
Ah, but most of the Wintrolls don't care about facts. And there are more
than a few (hello, flatty) who outright LIE in here 24/7/365.
*They* are the ones perpetrating FUD, distorting facts, calling names and
anything else they can think of doing to smear GNU/Linux and its users.
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 03:51:05 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
>> Ian Hilliard threw some tea leaves on the floor
>> and this is what they wrote:
>>
>> <deletia>
>>> It is far better to shoot down the Wintrolls with the facts, rather
>>> than with name calling.
>>
>> Have you been in a vacuum lately Mr Hilliard ? The Wintrolls aren't
>> interested *in the facts*, in fact they wish to steer as far away from
>> them as possible.
>
> The Wintrolls try to derail the debate. It is up to the Linux advocates to
> keep the debate on track.
Easier said than done, imho.
>
>
>>> This way, the facts get out
>>> into the public domain for all to see.
>>
>> So will the FUD, or do you think people like EF will idly sit back and
>> let the thread lead to the "facts" ?
>
> Unfortunately, the Linux advocates let the debate be lead off subject.
I disagree with the *let* partm because not all advocates are experts
in straight and crooked thinking as practised by some of the smoother
Wintrolls.
>I
> have seen it time and time again. It the Linux advocates were to keep
> bring the thread back onto the subject, then the Wintrolls would be
> crushed. The truth is the stronges weapon, that we have.
I have to agree, I just think its a waste of time debating with
Wintrolls. The gains are far less than the time one wastes with them.
>
>
>>> It is also important to realize,
>>> that abusing the opponent is a sure sign, that the debate has been
>>> lost. Most onlookers realize that.
>>
>> Nonsense, light abuse is the Cola way of showing a Wintroll what we
>> think of them.
>
> By dropping to the Wintroll level is not good Linux advocacy.
Please be specific, what *exactly* do you mean by that statement ?
>
>
>> I've never *ever* seen a GNU/Linux advocate insult people the way Simon
>> Cooke has, that man has no class at all.
>>
>>
> Simon behaves like a pig when he is losing a debate, but that is no excuse
> to drop to his level.
I have never seen an advocate drop to his level.
>If we were to stick to the facts, we would be far
> more successful in crushing the Wintrolls.
Easier said than done, imho.
>
>
>>> Hence, I say, let all the Simons in the world come into C.O.L.A. and
>>> let's just shoot them down, using good debating skills and the facts.
>>
>> Dream on. And while you're being so sacharin sweet, please take a trip
>> to one of the Windows advocacy news groups and you will soon see that in
>> comparison Cola is a haven for reasonable debate.
>>
>>
> I think you're talking about the wrong bloke.
Nope, you're being so politically correct, and in a war zone I believe
that it won't work.
> I'm anything but sweet, I
> just know, that a well considered argument and keeping ones temper in the
> face of the total stupidity displayed by Windows advocates, will in the
> end crush the stupid fools.
I agree totally.
> The crushing will be complete, because these
> fools can't argue against the truth. All they can do is change the
> subject.
Here is where we differ. I believe it is very hard to win an argument
with a Wintroll, their entire methodology is honed so that in the worst
case, its a draw.
>
>>> That would be true advocacy.
>>
>>
>> That would be true ignorance.
>
> It is not ignorance.
I apologise that was a bit strong. I should have said "I disagree".
>I deal with incredibly stupid programmers, who know
> nothing but Windows, all the time. These people lose in the end, because
> there is no longer any reason to stick with Windows, except for lethargy
> and stupidity.
How can I argue here :)
Thanks for your well considered and polite argument.
Terry
and this is what they wrote:
perhaps you're right but I don't think so. Simon often had no clue
about GNU/GNU/Linux, and it resulted in a lot of noise.
Anyway, don't fret, he will be back!
Unfortunately.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 02:27 AM, allison_...@yahoo.com said:
>Me either.
Stay not upon the order of your departure, but go!
>psychopaths
Only since you came.
>who will stoop to even the lowest
>level to personally attack any person
PKB.
>semi-humnanity
You have met the enemy and he is you. Have you no decency? You whine
about insults, yet your libel is as bad as anything else posted here.
>This group is about 95 percent total bull crap and 5 percent fact
Which puts the group well above your average.
>Normal people aren't interested in operating systems
No, normal people are interested in whatever you are, because you are
the supreme arbiter. Feh! Normal people decide for themselves what
they are interested in, and there is no "One size fits all." You are
an arrant hypocrite, to com plain about people being single minded and
to then express that sort of mindless prejudice.
What you need is to forget computers for a while and have some hot
sex. May I recommend Alan Ralsky as a suitable partner for you?
>Tootles!
AMF.
chrisv
wrote:
>flatfish wrote:
>
>> Normal people aren't interested in operating systems because they are
>> boring.
>
>"Normal" people has better get interested in operating systems (again)
>because the current crop of viruses and worms is going to get far worse.
>People with some technical proficiency are better prepared for such events.
And when they don't even control their own PC any longer - it won't
work unless they get permission from the Internet each time they want
to run something. And of course they'll be zero chance of privacy...
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Tattoo Vampire
> And when they don't even control their own PC any longer - it won't
> work unless they get permission from the Internet each time they want
> to run something. And of course they'll be zero chance of privacy...
And the lemming-like masses will blindly accept Paladium or what it will
have become by then.
Say, maybe Microsoft is really the thing that becomes Skynet in all those
Terminator movies.
DarkHills
and possibly Freenet would finally come into it's own.
Hey, I can dream, can't I?
--
DarkHills
[[[Pan: The Galactic Gargle-Blaster of Newsreaders]]]
We are Pentium of Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated.
All trolls are promptly killfiled. You decide whether you want to talk.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
>> I've never *ever* seen a GNU/Linux advocate insult people the way Simon
>> Cooke has, that man has no class at all.
>>
>>
> Simon behaves like a pig when he is losing a debate, but that is no excuse
> to drop to his level. If we were to stick to the facts, we would be far
> more successful in crushing the Wintrolls.
How about we have a little fun here?
Form a scoring system,
for every obvious falsehood on either side: -2 points
for every comment about linux (or windows) that's no longer true: -1 point
for every unprovoked personal insult: -10 points
for every personal insult in retaliation: -5 points
for every very good and true point: +4 points
for every good and true correction of a "no longer true" comment: +2
Of course, this would leave some of the wintrolls with scores of -100 on a
10 line post, especially mr Kaidachiman.
We could just use the system and add lines like
Score: -10 personal attack
before the reply to that comment.
:)
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
That would be amusing :)
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The Ghost In The Machine
<spi...@freenet.co.uk>
wrote
on Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:20:33 +0100
<hma7jb...@freenet.co.uk>:
It's a thought, but there are insults and there are insults. :-)
Should we try to put a positive score on the more inventive ones?
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Bruce Scott TOK
|> I'm not going to post here any more.
Good bloody riddance...
..although I don't believe you're really gone.
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Mart van de Wege
And although the way Simon flies off the handle at the merest
provocation is in my opinion a *major* character flaw (and perhaps one
his employer should be aware of), the way you are phrasing this makes
you no better than Simon, and quite probably a lot worse.
'Whaaaa! Look at what *he* made me do!' is a childish excuse. By
stooping to that level, you are certainly not showing yourself as more
respectable than Simon, and God knows he already has little respect in
my eyes.
IOW, if *this* is your justification for complaining to his employer,
you have sunk extremely low indeed.
Mart
--
'The pipe is a sturdy and stalwart companion, ever dependable, ever
friendly, and each posessing of its own personality for us to learn to
understand, to nurture, to befriend. In the post-modern world, how
many things can claim such wonderful attributes?' (G.L. Pease)
Mart van de Wege
> I'm not going to post here any more.
>
As others have pointed out, we have heard this before. Although your
wish to make a statement is respected, that sentence is redundant, and
if you ever do post here again, you'll get it thrown into your face.
I'd make allowances for 'heat of the moment', were it not for the
otherwise cool tone of your post.
> For the past few years, I've always kept a very strict line between my
> employment and my posts to Usenet. My views are my own, and I don't see any
> reason to bring my employer into it. It's none of their business, and has
> no bearing on my opinions.
>
> Recently, other posters in this newsgroup - Doug Mentohl and Paul Cooke -
> saw fit to change that. They posted my work information here.
>
Not exactly secret, is it? 30 seconds of Googling brings it up.
> Doug Mentohl is now taking this further. He's writing to my employers, and
> is threatening to write to their customers.
>
Although it *might* (note the conditional here) be valid to inquire of
your employer if he wishes to be associated with some of the behaviour
you have been showing here, I do not agree with the motivations
Mr. Mentohl is giving for informing your employer. In essence, he has
lowered himself to your level. A sad occurence indeed.
>
> My responses to insults and attacks on my person have always been vicious;
> I've never seen any need to pussyfoot around when someone else is attacking
> me. Unfortunately, some people here don't understand the difference between
> words on a Usenet group and attacking someone in real life. They also don't
> seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, when people attack you for your
> opinions for years on end that you don't have to, need to, or want to take
> it likely. The natural reaction is to fight back using any and all means at
> your disposal.
>
Uh no. If you have a nuke at your disposal, you don't use it to get
rid of a pesky mosquito. The concept of overkill seems to be
completely foreign to you, as has been pointed out multiple times.
> But you never cross that line.
>
> That line has been crossed. Thank you, Mr. Mentohl.
>
>
> A lot of the people performing these attacks see nothing wrong with their
> behavior. Yet some of them post anonymously. Still others don't post their
> employment information, nor do they want that information posted. Yet they
> see nothing wrong with turning it around and attacking someone else with
> the same methods they themselves claim to deplore.
>
For your information (and I pointed this out to you before), your hot
buttons are transparent to anyone with a bit of insight in the human
psyche. Had I really cared to use your methods on you, you would have
been a lot angrier with me than you would have ever been at Sinister
Midget or Roy Culley, who in the end engaged in nothing more than some
minor poking.
I gave my opinion on escalation. I do not agree with it as a tactic,
and I do not wish to use it. Regardless, some people do get flak they
wholly deserve.
> This is hypocrisy. It's also the same tactics used day in, and day out by
> the supposed "advocates" which litter COLA, drowning out the true Linux
> advocates.
>
Quite frankly, after killfiling the obvious nutcases, I don't see much
of this 'drowning out' going on. Discussion is remarkably civil for a
purportedly hot-headed group like COLA. The occasional invective is to
be expected, but real personal attacks are *relatively* rare.
Sadly, this relative rarity is negatively impacted by *your* posting
style too.
<snip>
> Time and time again the posters here have claimed that I'm paid by
> Microsoft to post here. This is a lie.
At worst, yes. A closer look at posts alleging payment by MS will show
that they are mostly meant as humour. Weak humour to be sure, but I
have noticed several tongues being planted very firmly in cheek.
And no matter, comparing *this* to making sick statements about
someone's recently deceased relatives as if they're in any way
comparable?
I submit that it is *you* who has a disconnect between USENET flames
and reality.
> They perform statistical analysis on my posting habits, or on
> others, claiming that they're posted by more than one person. They
> disbelieve that any one person could know a large amount of
> information regarding broad topics - and claim that this person is
> actually a gang of people employed by Microsoft to post here.
>
> All of these tactics are an attempt to keep dissenters quiet. And when
> people get sick of them, they are painted as the bad guys. When all it
> would take would be for other - more rational - posters to this group to
> reign in the bullies and liars in their own numbers.
>
We have been complaining about pro-windows guys not doing the same for
*years*. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it is suddenly
unfair?!
WTF are you smoking?
> My home address and phone number are online. Check the archives. I'm not
> anonymous. I never have been. And I've never lied about my employment.
>
> So if you try to post anything which contradicts these people, beware.
>
> They will stop at nothing to shut you up.
> They will hound you for years.
> They will email your employer.
> They will post anonymously, while attacking your identity.
> They will attempt to provoke you and rile you in order to get you to return
> fire.
> They will call you names, and try to hurt you, to dilute what you are
> saying.
> They will do anything and everything in their power to remove any kind of
> criticism of Linux, while using as many lies and falsehoods as they can
> muster to deride Linux's competition, while others stand by on the
> sidelines and tacitly acknowledge and accept their lies and behavior.
>
Never had any of this levelled at me. And I am not one to toe the
party line at all costs. I *have* made statements that contradicted
'these people'. It never got me the scorn I got from pro-Windows
posters, you included.
>
> Linux could be a good operating system. But it won't, while its community
> acts like the dregs of society, attempting to push their political goals on
> everyone.
>
I agree that Mr. Mentohl's actions (or rather, his stated motivations
for these actions) would put him rather low on the social
scale. Unfortunately, he is not alone there Simon.
Roy Culley
Why did you not complain to his ISP? That is surely a more appropriate
thing to do. Usenet is an unruly place and people often write things
they would never of dream of saying to someone face to face.
Some of Simon's posts are most offensive and I did complain to his
ISP. However, contacting a persons employer because of something they
wrote on usenet is IMHO just totally out of order.
Daeron
<snip>
>> It was the least I could do ;_D
> Why did you not complain to his ISP? That is surely a more
> appropriate thing to do. Usenet is an unruly place and people often
> write things they would never of dream of saying to someone face to
> face.
Did also ... no response.
> Some of Simon's posts are most offensive and I did complain to his
> ISP. However, contacting a persons employer because of something
> they wrote on usenet is IMHO just totally out of order.
The tome of the 'debate' was set here a long time ago but not by me.
see my comment re EF and that personal msg he reproduced here against
RB. As I said on other occasions when the trolls accused be of using
obsenity. I have no objection to using it in retalation. I would prefer
sticking to rathional debate. Whether for or against. But they have set
the tone and agenda. When such a method came along why would I not use it.
Roy Culley
Daeron <dae...@demon.net> writes:
> Roy Culley wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> It was the least I could do ;_D
>
>> Why did you not complain to his ISP? That is surely a more
>> appropriate thing to do. Usenet is an unruly place and people often
>> write things they would never of dream of saying to someone face to
>> face.
>
> Did also ... no response.
Did you expect one? They do in fact send an auto-response. I'm sure
most ISP's / usenet feed providers could care less about the odd
usenet abuse report. If enough complaints about a user come in then
perhaps they will do something.
>> Some of Simon's posts are most offensive and I did complain to his
>> ISP. However, contacting a persons employer because of something
>> they wrote on usenet is IMHO just totally out of order.
>
> The tome of the 'debate' was set here a long time ago but not by me.
>
> see my comment re EF and that personal msg he reproduced here
> against RB. As I said on other occasions when the trolls accused be
> of using obsenity. I have no objection to using it in retalation. I
> would prefer sticking to rathional debate. Whether for or
> against. But they have set the tone and agenda. When such a method
> came along why would I not use it.
If you are happy stooping to the depths of posters like Simon then so
be it. Just makes you look as bad as them.
It still does not justify contacting a posters employer. Why can't you
understand that?