SAVE LINUX!VOTE AGAINST THE PENGUIN!
Madman
Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
> V.R.
I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )
Not that I mind it... but if we REALLY ever want the "outside" world to
take Linux as a "for real" OS... we need to use a better logo than a "bird".
80% of the others are MUCH better and if the version part was leftout I'd
bet many of them would take over as #1.
I personally voted for a REAL Picture... and NO it wasn't the one noted
above. I think we should ALL really think about what we could be doing to
Linux. I TRUELY hope that Linux catches on as a REAL OS that companies use
and will develop FOR! And, as far as I'm concerned, this picking od a "bird"
as the LOGO might hinder it! COME ON and let's think about what we really
want from this...
REMEBER:
When M$S$ called the OS that was coming out in late 94 as win95... then with
all the delays they said that the name had NOTHING to do with the release date??
YEA you remeber... Let's make this a PROFESSIONAL decission!!!
PICK a REAL LOGO, and lets make "THIS" a real statement to the NET that this
is a REAL OS and needs to be taken seriously!!
Ok removing myself from thje soapbox and I'll trry to refrain from drinking
for the next two or three minutes.. but please THINK about the message we are
sending to the PUBLIC. WE are a good and wish not to be taken as a JOKE.
(AKA a cartoon!)
John
--
John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.
Psychodad
Camille-Aimé Possamaï
Hi Linux People,
Go to http://ballot.box.com/linux/ where you'll find a lot of proposed
logos for Linux. Most of them could have been designed for, say,
Microsoft; this does not mean that they are ugly just that they are
somewhat dull and, perhaps, commercially-attractive since one cannot
see how one can really dislike them.
A few of them are different. The company mentionned above would certainly
not choose one these latter ones.
What about Linux addicts?
Well! go there and make your choice.
--
===============================================================================
( Camille-Aim'e Possama"i \ T'el'ephone )
( Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique \ (+33) 91 16 43 27 )
( Centre de Recherches en Neurosciences Cognitives \ )
( 31, chemin Joseph-Aiguier \ T'el'ecopie )
( F13402 Marseille cedex 20 - France \ (+33) 91 77 49 69 )
===============================================================================
Louis J. LaBash Jr.
You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}
Kazinator
In article <4sfsls$b...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
Hugh McCurdy <hmcc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Some points: What defines a "real" logo? What is an "unreal" logo?
>I'm having "real" trouble with this concept (really...it looks like a
>joke, but I'm not joking...what do you mean?).
A real logo is a piece of graphic design artwork, not a cheesy rendering of
a cartoon mascot, for starters.
A logo has to appear good in all kinds of media: from black and white fax
to billboards.
That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.
Take McDonald's for example. Their logo is the ``golden arches'' (blech :).
Though they have used all kinds of loony characters in their advertizing.
That penguin is no more a logo than that big purple McDonald's bird with `dem
pilot ace goggles.
>How is picking a "cartoon" not a professional decision? I refer to
>Snoopy & Met Life. While the Met Life decision may have been good or
>bad...I doubt that many professional advertisers would call their
>advertising "unprofessional."
>
>I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
>Linux at all.
I think it does.
How about this! (joke)
/* XPM */
/* courtesy of The Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> */
static char * LiNUX_xpm[] = {
"64 64 6 1",
" c #696969696969",
". c #000000000000",
"X c #FFFFFFFF0000",
"o c #FFFFA5A50000",
"O c #FAFA13134040",
"+ c #3B3BFAFA3434",
" .. ",
" .... ",
" ....... ",
" ....X.... ",
" .....XXX.... ",
" .......XXX.... ",
" ..........XXX.... ",
" .....X......XXX.... ",
" .....XXXX......XXX.... ",
" ........XXXXX....XXX.... ",
" ..........XXXXXX....XXX.... ",
" ......oo.....XXXXXXX..XXX.... ",
" ........ooo....XXX.XXXX..XXX.... ",
" ...........o......XXX..XXXXXXX.... ",
" ....................XXX...XXXXXXX.... ",
" .......................XXX....XXXXX.... ",
" ..oo.............oo....XXX......XXXX.... ",
" .ooo...........ooo.....XXX......X...... ",
" . ..ooo...........ooo....XXX.........OO... ",
" . .ooo...........ooo.....XXX........OOO.. ",
" .. ..ooo...........ooo....XX........OOO.... ",
" ... .ooo............oo..............OOO.... ",
" .... ..ooo...........ooo.............OOO..... ",
" .... .ooo............oo....O.......OOO...... ",
" ...... ..ooo................OOOOO....OOO....... ",
" ...... .ooo.....ooo....+...OOOOOOOO.OOO....... ",
" ....... ..ooo..ooooo...+++....OOOOOOOOO......... ",
" ........ .oooooooo.....+++.......OOOOOOOOO...... ",
" ......... ..ooooo........+++.........OOOOOOOOO.... ",
" ......... .ooo..........+++........OOO.OOOOOOOO.. ",
" ........... ...............+++.......OOO....OOOOO... ",
" ........... ...+++.........++.......OOO.......O.... ",
" ........... ...+++.........+++.....OOO........... ",
" ........... ...++..........++.....OOO......... . ",
" ........... ...+++.........+++....OOO....... ... ",
" ........... ...++.........+++...OOO...... ..... ",
" ........... ...+++........+++....OO.... ...... ",
" ........... ...++........+++........ ........ ",
" ........... ...+++......+++....... .......... ",
" ........... ...+++....+++...... ........... ",
" ........... ....++++++++..... ............. ",
" ........... ....++++++.... ............... ",
" ........... ............ ................ ",
" ........... ......... .................. ",
" ........... ....... .................... ",
" ........... .... ..................... ",
" ........... .. ....................... ",
" ........... ......................... ",
" ........... .......................... ",
" ........... ........................ ",
" ......... ...................... ",
" ......... ..................... ",
" ........ ................... ",
" ....... ................. ",
" ...... ................ ",
" ...... .............. ",
" .... ............ ",
" .... ........... ",
" ... ......... ",
" .. ....... ",
" . ...... ",
" . .... ",
" .. ",
" "};
Oh man, Jobs would throw a fit!
Kazinator
In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:
>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
>IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
>either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
>a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.
>
>Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.
I'm trying as well. The awful logos on the aforementioned page, plus the
penguin, have persuaded me to at least try.
I'm using xfig, by the way, even though I'm more than capable of doing
weird constructive solid geometry with povray. Let's save the cheesy
raytracing for the day when there is an actual logo created by conventional
means.
I really suck at this, by the way, but what can we do?
You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
design pizazz would be great.
Penguin Books comes to mind. I'm trying to recall what their logo looks like,
but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.
Berthold H"ollmann
Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
The proposed Penguin Logo is beautiful, making it an official Linux logo
would be great. Please forget about the ugly Logos on
http://ballot.box.com/linux/ and vote for the Penguin. (Actually I could not
connect to ballot.box.com, but last time i visited a "vote Linux Logo" site
all logos were ugly for me.) I like the penguin.
Greetings Berthold
--
email: ho...@hamburg.GermanLloyd.de
These opinions might be mine, but never those of my employer.
Kazinator
In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!
I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
complicated.
The problem is that it's not a logo!
It's a _MASCOT_!
There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.
I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
into effect.
Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.
Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
Studio...
Hugh McCurdy
Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
>Psychodad wrote:
>>
>> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>> has a good chance to win!
>>
>> V.R.
>I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
>several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
>I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )
>Not that I mind it... but if we REALLY ever want the "outside" world to
>take Linux as a "for real" OS... we need to use a better logo than a "bird".
>80% of the others are MUCH better and if the version part was leftout I'd
>bet many of them would take over as #1.
>I personally voted for a REAL Picture... and NO it wasn't the one noted
>above. I think we should ALL really think about what we could be doing to
>Linux. I TRUELY hope that Linux catches on as a REAL OS that companies use
>and will develop FOR! And, as far as I'm concerned, this picking od a "bird"
>as the LOGO might hinder it! COME ON and let's think about what we really
>want from this...
>REMEBER:
>When M$S$ called the OS that was coming out in late 94 as win95... then with
>all the delays they said that the name had NOTHING to do with the release date??
>YEA you remeber... Let's make this a PROFESSIONAL decission!!!
>PICK a REAL LOGO, and lets make "THIS" a real statement to the NET that this
>is a REAL OS and needs to be taken seriously!!
>Ok removing myself from thje soapbox and I'll trry to refrain from drinking
>for the next two or three minutes.. but please THINK about the message we are
>sending to the PUBLIC. WE are a good and wish not to be taken as a JOKE.
>(AKA a cartoon!)
I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
Some points: What defines a "real" logo? What is an "unreal" logo?
I'm having "real" trouble with this concept (really...it looks like a
joke, but I'm not joking...what do you mean?).
How is picking a "cartoon" not a professional decision? I refer to
Snoopy & Met Life. While the Met Life decision may have been good or
bad...I doubt that many professional advertisers would call their
advertising "unprofessional."
I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
Linux at all.
Hugh McCurdy
Hugh McCurdy
Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.
Actually, my feeling is that we should have both....one of the Linux
logos and the Penguin (as a symbol or mascot).
>>I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
>>Linux at all.
>I think it does.
This might go back to the argument about advertising...and we might
have to agree to disagree. While it's nice to have a kick-ass ad,
having a decent advertising campaign is more important than the actual
content of the ad. What works with ads is the repeated message.
Regardless, I don't really care if the Penguin is a logo or not. I
think it's a good "mascot." And now I'll shuddup.
Hugh McCurdy
Erdal Emsiz
Madman wrote:
>
> Psychodad wrote:
> >
> > The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> > will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> > and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> > has a good chance to win!
> >
> > V.R.
> I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
> several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
> I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )
>
Also totaly agree with this. That Penguin Logo is a very stupid logo, specialy
for Linux.
<KNIP>
>
> John
> --
> John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
> I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
> What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.
------------------------------------------------------
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brown andrew todd
Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
> Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
> >
> > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
> This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
> control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for
covers of future Linux titles.
I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
Andrew
//----------------------------------------------------------------
// andrew todd brown mailto:andre...@acm.org
// university of illinois http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/atbrown1
//----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Thomas
In article <slrn4unlhb...@lcjones.aclib.siue.edu>,
Louis J. LaBash Jr. <lo...@LCJones.aclib.siue.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
>|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>|>
>|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
>|
>|
>|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>
>deserved.
Well, IMHO the penguin is much more effective at representing linux than
any of the cheesy ways of writing the word 'linux'---even the mklinux group
have a picture of it on top of one of their machines. I think it captures
the mood perfectly. Linux is different---if you want it to look like any
other run-of-the-mill system then vote for a tedious logo. There is still
a lot of fun to be had from linux.
As for the argument that companies won't port their software to linux or
take it seriously, yes, right! I can just see some company boss saying
'well, we could make some money out of the linux port, but we won't do it
because I don't like their logo.' :-)
Paul.
-
paul....@eng.ox.ac.uk
John Brock
In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!
I agree..., that weird tubby penguin is pretty awful! I'm not really
thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
small and easy to change as time passes.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Raymond Nijssen
hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
willing to produce versions of their commercial
software for Linux.
Suppose you're waiting for commercial products for
Linux - many people are trying to make a case for this
to their vendor: Vendor: "What is Linux?" User:"It's
a popular free unix system" Vendor: "You're not
waisting my time talking about this stupid penguin
stuff, are you?"
The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
commercial interest. Who wants his products
associated with a platform that manifests itself as
utterly pre-adolescent?
> I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
> Linux at all.
It may not directly influence people who are already Linux enthousiasts. But
it will impede further growth.
--
Raymond X.T. Nijssen | Note that C++>C is undefined for any value of C
|
Eindhoven University of Technology, Design Automation (ES) | tel. +31-402473614
EH 7.36, PO. Box 513, 5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands | fax. +31-402464527
^
new extra digit!
Louis J. LaBash Jr.
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
|>
|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
|
|
|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
But he's still the *boss*. He has given so much to so many, the title is
deserved.
--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}
Dale K. Hawkins
Well, I think that the Penguin is kinda laid back and taking it easy.
It makes me think of something I read somewhere:
"Dolphines aren't smart; all they know how to do is swim around eating
fish and playing!"
I say the Penguin would make an excellent _mascot_, but it is a bit
too complex for a logo.
Just my 00000010.
-Dale
P.S. I think that the heart of the issue is that Linux kicks butt, large
cooperate butts, in fact.
--
To Hack, is to Live! Will Hack for Beer!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Dale K. Hawkins | Questions or Comments Invited. +
+ dhaw...@Mines.EDU | Criticisms Ignored. +
+ (303)235-2791 | Flames redirected to /dev/null +
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ GCS/E d- s-: a- C++(++++) UL++++A++I+++$S+++$X++ P++++ L+++ E---() +
+ W+++ N++ K++ w--- O! M--(but better then w---) V-- PS+ PE-- Y+ !PGP t +
+ !5 X++ R tv b+++ DI++ D+ G++ e>++>++++(*) h++ r++ y+ +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Edwards
brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
: > >
: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
: > > Penguin.
: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: Cute little fella.
Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
of a particular organization.
It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.
: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who
: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
high-resolution.
A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
the original), then toss it out.
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! America!! I saw it
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | all!! Vomiting! Waving!
| is the question, and | JERRY FALWELLING into your
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | void tube of UHF oblivion!!
| SAFEWAY of the mind --
Mike Frisch
In article <31EB0194...@erols.com>, Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
>I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
>several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
Agreed. The penguin is a little ridiculous... Even the name
"Linux" done in colour and a fancy font would be appropriate. The
penguin isn't...
Mike.
===========================================================================
Mike Frisch (416) 496-2200 Ext. 2272
Software Engineer
Hummingbird Communications Ltd. North York, Ontario, Canada
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not my employer
Petri Honkamaa
On 16 Jul 1996 16:53:45 GMT, brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>covers of future Linux titles.
>
>I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
>person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
>exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
Agreed! The penguin is great.
It's just perfect logo/mascot for a nice, friendly and powerfull
OS like Linux. And it's definitely a lot nicer idea than this
window-that-is-shattering-to-pieces-thing MS has been spreading
all aroung the world for a quite some time now...
Uh...and this was of course IMHO... :-)
--
Petri Honkamaa <honk...@zzz.lnet.lut.fi>
Steve Dobson
Kazinator wrote:
>
> In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
> Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
> >The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> >will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> >and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> >has a good chance to win!
>
> color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
> complicated.
>
> The problem is that it's not a logo!
>
> It's a _MASCOT_!
>
> There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.
>
> I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
> understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
> into effect.
>
> Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
> plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
> silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.
>
> Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
> Studio...
HERE HERE!!!!
--
############## Steve Dobson
####### # Computing Devices Company Ltd
####### ## # Castleham Road, St. Leonards On Sea, TN38 9NJ, UK.
# ## #
####### ## # Tel: +44-(0)1424-853481 x2433
####### # Fax: +44-(0)1424-851520
############## Email: Steve....@CAE.CompD.COM
Mark Hamstra
Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>
> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
Mark
Tony Smolar
On 16 Jul 1996 17:02:00 -0400, John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
>Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>>has a good chance to win!
>
>thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
>far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
>needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
>theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
>"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
>really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
>small and easy to change as time passes.
I think the "Powered By" theme is intended for use on say, a WWW server.
I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.
Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.
>--
>John Brock
>jbr...@panix.com
--
Tony Smolar
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
asm...@fast.net home email
to...@nscs.fast.net work email
http://www.users.fast.net/~smol homepage
Kazinator
In article <4shp4l$6...@aphex.direct.ca>, Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
>letters
Here is a cleaned up third draft...
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%%For: kaz@bullwinkle (The Kazinator,,,,)
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Kazinator
In article <bnelsonD...@netcom.com>,
Bob Nelson <bne...@netcom.com> wrote:
>You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have
>changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
>commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
>mindshare or perception.
>
>linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
>the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.
The thing is, as a hacker's dream, Linux doesn't really need a logo.
It's to those ``serious'' purposes that a logo is beneficial. Some of us
do use Linux in a professional setting (as well as spare-time hacking).
Edvard Majakari
>>>>> "AB" == brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
AB> I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
AB> Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal
AB> for covers of future Linux titles.
Yup; but wasn't this logo meant for the kernel? So, there could be
another Linux logo concurrently with the Penguin. On the other hand,
Linux isn't but just the kernel... but we could use some other logo to
symbolize the whole 'system', which varies quite a lot,
though. System, which is based on kernels 2.x
--
//Ed http://lodge.ton.tut.fi/~ed/
%
This .signature is false
Dave Cinege
In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
>Just my 00000010.
Don't you mean 00001010
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege (aka Psychopath #3) --- Super Genius at Large
http://www.psychosis.com/ Prove me wrong.....VOTE Libertarian!
Harry Browne for President in '96 Libertarian Party 1-800-682-1776
http://www.rahul.net/browne/ http://www.lp.org/
William Edward Webber
Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) opined:
: hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
:
: > I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
: > is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
: > I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
: The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
: bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
: commercial interest. Who wants his products
: associated with a platform that manifests itself as
: utterly pre-adolescent?
And here I was thinking that the Penguin looked impressively Zen...
--
William Webber Postgrad. Dip. in CS, RMIT, Australia
w...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~wew/
Interests: linux, chess, Glenn Gould
"Well, I'll say this for you, the quality of your stupidity is rising"
- Lucy, from Peanuts.
Evan Leibovitch
>>You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have
>>changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
>>commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
>>mindshare or perception.
>>linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
>>the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.
>The thing is, as a hacker's dream, Linux doesn't really need a logo.
>It's to those ``serious'' purposes that a logo is beneficial. Some of us
>do use Linux in a professional setting (as well as spare-time hacking).
Exactly. For those purposes, one can turn to the likes of Caldera and
Red Hat, both of which have reasonably slick logos designed for
commercial acceptance.
For Linux itself, the logo is OK.
Personally, I'd prefer an animal eager to do something (as opposed to
already done it); Linux users are *never* satisfied in the way the
penguin is depicted, they're continually moving formward.
...but that's just a possible variation on the same theme -- an active
drawing of the penguin can be a complement to, not replacement of, the
submitted logo.
My biggest fear is that in the next release of Emacs, RMS is going to
insist that the logo be the penguin riding a gnu.
--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
Caldera Business Partner / SCO Authorized VAR / ev...@telly.org / (905) 452-0504
I love standards because they give non-conformists something not to conform to
Anselm Lingnau
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
Since when has anything about Linux been up for a vote? You don't get
to vote about kernel features, either.
Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lin...@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
VMS is great. We run VMS on all of our workstations. The great thing about it
is that no one else in the department ever wants to use them. --- Ryan Reed
Ari Koivisto
In article <4sgd9s$h...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Hugh McCurdy wrote:
>Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.
>
>Actually, my feeling is that we should have both....one of the Linux
>logos and the Penguin (as a symbol or mascot).
Yes, I think so too. The Penguin makes a great mascot, but a logo is also
needed.
I think all should go and have a look at
http://www.solluna.org/~higgins/linux.html
That logo looks great. It's simple and would look nice at a corner of
a press release. There's also couple of versions with the penguin.
Well, just go and see and make up your own mind.
And yes, the logo is up at the voting site too (linuxlogos1.jpg)
Regards,
Ari
Michael Bruce
Grant Edwards (gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com) wrote:
: brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: : Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
: : I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: : Cute little fella.
: Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
: cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
: is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
: of a particular organization.
: It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
: either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
: black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
: penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
: Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
: window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
: "bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
: can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
: billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
: The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
: at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
There is a black and white version. It looks good. There is even a
postscript (vector) scaleable version.
Try: http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
There is more to the Linux logo than just the color penguin.
--
Michael Bruce | br...@infinet.com | http://www.infinet.com/~bruce
I used to feel unhappy that I didn't have a neat .sig with a big ASCII
graphic for the world to see. Then I read alt.fan.warlord.
Orc
In article <wppw5wk...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl>,
Raymond Nijssen <ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
>
>> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
>> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
>> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
>
>willing to produce versions of their commercial
>software for Linux.
>
>Suppose you're waiting for commercial products for
>Linux - many people are trying to make a case for this
>to their vendor: Vendor: "What is Linux?" User:"It's
>a popular free unix system" Vendor: "You're not
>waisting my time talking about this stupid penguin
>stuff, are you?"
>
>bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
>commercial interest.
Hi. I'm a commercial interest who's developing applications for Linux.
I don't care whether Linux uses a Penguin, a BSD Daemon, or a Flying
window as its logo.
>Who wants his products
>associated with a platform that manifests itself as
>utterly pre-adolescent?
Hint: It's not the logo, it's the carrying on by people who don't have a
sense of perspective.
____
david parsons \bi/ http://www.pell.chi.il.us/~orc/
\/
Kazinator
In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
Some of these logos have been heavily criticized, (the IBM logo and the AT&T
``death star'' come to mind), but I agree with your point: the logo has to
work in black and white, and it should be something you could cast into a
stamp.
>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
>
>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.
>
>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who
>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
>
>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.
Right. First you make a logo, _then_ you whip out the ray-tracing. The extra
dimension doesn't have to be part of the logo, necessarily.
>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
letters, like many of the other contributions. It's 2D, and made up of
simple vector graphics primitives supported by PostScript. This is just
a first draft, I already have a neat addition in mind:
%!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0
%%Title: linux2.fig
%%Creator: fig2dev Version 3.1 Patchlevel 2
%%CreationDate: Tue Jul 16 20:59:46 1996
%%For: kaz@bullwinkle (The Kazinator,,,,)
%Magnification: 1.00
%%Orientation: Landscape
%%BoundingBox: 0 0 218 524
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$F2psEnd
rs
Bob Nelson
> > I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
> > is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
> > I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
> How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
> willing to produce versions of their commercial
> software for Linux.
> The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
> bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
> commercial interest. Who wants his products
> associated with a platform that manifests itself as
> utterly pre-adolescent?
You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have
changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
mindshare or perception.
linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.
--
=============================================================================
Bob Nelson: Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. - bne...@netcom.com
linux for fun, M$ for $$$...and the NFL for what really counts!
=============================================================================
Arthur D. Jerijian
NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!
--Arthur
vl...@net-link.net (Psychodad) wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!
>V.R.
Michael Hasenstein
On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Arthur D. Jerijian wrote:
> NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!
>
> --Arthur
NO!!! Get rid of the penguin!
(thats just my single voice against it; 'that's no logo' was my first
thought when I saw it)
--
*******************************************************************
email: Michael.H...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (MIME welcome)
homepage: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
my private pc: benjy.csn.tu-chemnitz.de (Linux!!) or 134.109.96.69
*******************************************************************
Mark Hamstra
Kazinator wrote:
>
> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.
I did one of these that I was pretty happy with. It should be up at
http://www.redhat.com/redhat/dtc/penguin.html; except that, with Red
Hat's webserver reorganization, it's broken right now. I'll fix it
soon.
Mark
Berend_W_van_Bemmel
gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
>brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
>: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>: > >
>: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
>: > > Penguin.
>: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>: Cute little fella.
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.
>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who
>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.
>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.
>-- Hmm, I agree about the logo part of the above. But I do like the
pinguin as a mascote, you could have it doing different things round and
about the logo -whichever it may be- like drinking beer, reading the
manpages, sleeping, (screwing maybe?) etc.
So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).
Greetings,
Berend van Bemmel
--
+ Berend W. van Bemmel +----( this space is not for rent! )-----+
+ e-mail: bem...@xs4all.nl +--------------------------------------+
+ www: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bemmel + home phone:(+31)(20)6257390 +
Dale K. Hawkins
Dave Cinege (dci...@superlink.net) wrote:
: In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
: >Just my 00000010.
: Don't you mean 00001010
Well, I thought about it.
00000010 == 2 (value)
Where as
00001010
are two asserted bits.
Another route would be
10
but that starts to look like decimal ten when it should be two bits
with the value of two.
10b
But anyway it is a completely mute point, and people are going to
flame me for wasting band width in the midst of such a serious thread.
I'd rather be writing slogans as I am not much of an Artist.
What are some of the better slogans that are out there for Linux?
1. Linux, not just for breakfast anymore.
2. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation.
...
-Dale
Michael Zboray
I agree, The penguin is a looser.
There Should be a runnoff between the top two
Mike Z.
Wayne Dyer
Kazinator wrote:
[...]
> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.
>
> but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.
I believe it's a penguin, standing in profile, inside an ellipse.
I like the idea of having a mascot, but the statements so far about the
need for a logo to be simple, reproducible, and work well in B&W are quite
valid. Even something as baroque as the Norton motorcycle logo would be
splendid. (I've tried that one, and I don't think it works well -- but I
love the idea.) Logos weren't always so simple (take a look at the Bell
System logo from the early 20th century, for example), and they don't have
to be all primary colors and geometric shapes, but a simple mark can be a
powerful image. (The Batsignal comes to mind, or Superman's "S"...)
One thing I'd like to see hopeful logo designers avoid: the temptation to
use the horizontal stroke of the "L" as a device. It's obvious, but it's
overused.
--
Wayne Dyer :: dwd...@eskimo.com :: http://www.eskimo.com/~dwdyer/
"But then of course African swallows are non-migratory."
Arve Fahlvik
gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
I like the penguin, as a mascot.
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
>
>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>
I agree.
Here are the URL to my suggestion:
http://www.intercom.no/~steffen/linux.gif
The leaf is menth to be a fig leaf!
I am
a...@allianse.no
and
kon...@ln.statoil.no
and
arve.f...@st.notes.telemax.no
Michael Dillon
In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:
>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos.
Ooohhhh!! GREAT IDEA!!!
Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
Pengo with his thumb raised.
--
Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: mic...@memra.com
Neil Thompson
I'm afraid you've already lost!
The penguin was chosen by Linus, and as such has been adopted by fiat.
Cheers.
Neil
In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Wim Vandeputte
Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) wrote:
: The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
: bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
: commercial interest. Who wants his products
: associated with a platform that manifests itself as
: utterly pre-adolescent?
excuse me, but what do you think then of the little (bsd?) Devil.
Adult? Grown up? full of confident?
I dunno. logo's just catch on. Or they don't. You just have to see it enough
times to get used to it.
besides, I noticed it to pop up on a lot of other systems, even on the home
page of our Sparc 1000 systems off our university.
Wim Vandeputte
Psychodad (vl...@net-link.net) wrote:
: The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
: will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
: and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
: has a good chance to win!
ok knock it off with this negative crap.
I've had enough of people only being AGAINST something.
If you truely believe and want to contribute something to the Linux comunity,
devote some effort into something positive (make something, don't brake it or
slag off the creators)
Besides, I like the logo. Just like I had a laugh at the previous
priceing policy (release 1.2 kernel?) I think it captures the spirit
of Linux devellopment: you don't really know what you can expect of it, only
if you truely try it out for what it's made for (swimming) you'll see the
true grace. And if you can't convice them: confuse them.
Maybe the sense of humor (irony) in the image isn't understood by everybody
Grant Edwards
Berend_W_van_Bemmel (bem...@xs4all.nl) wrote:
: >: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: >: Cute little fella.
: >Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
: >cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
: >is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
: >of a particular organization.
[...]
: >-- Hmm, I agree about the logo part of the above. But I do like the
: pinguin as a mascote, you could have it doing different things round and
: about the logo -whichever it may be- like drinking beer, reading the
: manpages, sleeping, (screwing maybe?) etc.
: So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
: the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
: pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
: put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).
Exactly! We can keep the penguin as a mascot, but we need a real logo. Well
maybe we don't _need_ a logo, but it would be cool.
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Life is a POPULARITY
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | CONTEST! I'm REFRESHINGLY
| is the question, and | CANDID!!
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. |
Michael Dillon
In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m.
This is true.
>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
This is not true. The curves on the penguin are just right for doing very
small sizes as well as black and white.
>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.
I'm sure that if you asked the artist to do a black and white version of
the logo that they could produce one for you. This is an excellent logo
as good as or better than the BSD daemon.
For an OS that was created by thousands of dedicated people working on
their own time to create something powerful that they could share with the
world, Pengo is the perfect symbol. He's cute, he's cuddly, he was created
on a Linux system and he ties into Linux history in connection with Linus'
trip to Australia. It is just the right kind of symbol to make people feel
that Linux is a friendly OS and the Linux community is a friendly place to
be. No cold calculated corporate products here.
Linux: not just for servers any more.
Michael Dillon
>>> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
>>> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
>>> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
>>
>>How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
>>willing to produce versions of their commercial
>>software for Linux.
<sarcasm>
Yeah, take SUN for instance with tha silly Java stuff. Who can take
something like that seriously? Java Beans indeed!
Or what about Mozilla. I tell ya, that green lizard will just lose
Netscape their customers, no one will want to use their product.
</sarcasm>
Actually, Pengo is the most professionally drawn of all the logos on
display at ballotbox and the only one that really looks like a logo.
It was also drawn on a Linux system using the GIMP which goes to show you
just how far Linux has come.
Cute, friendly and lovable, just like the Linux OS. Take one home today.
P.S. Linus, who owns the rights to Pengo? For instance if I wanted to make
stuffed toy Pengo's who would I licence the design from. Same thing for
T-shirts and other products other than Linux distruibutions.
AnK
>: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
>: > > Penguin.
>: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>: Cute little fella.
>
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>penguin doesn't.
Hmmm. I think you haven't seen the black and white renditions of the
penguin logo. It looks great in one or two colors.
[...]
>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>
>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.
IMHO, the most important aspect of any good logo is that it can be
rendered in ASCII art for people's signatures (q.q.v..)
--
a...@best.com http://www.ank.com/resume.html
// .--=,
.....::://::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.. (o O &
:::::::://:::://://://:/:://::||_// / V K
:::::://:::://:/:|//'/' // _,|' r , 'qk
:'''/____ // / // |_// // || .'~. .~`,
kls \_/-=\_/
Ryurick M. Hristev
Kazinator (k...@cafe.net) wrote:
: In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
: Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
: >The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
: >will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
: >and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
: >has a good chance to win!
: I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
: color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
: complicated.
: The problem is that it's not a logo!
: It's a _MASCOT_!
: There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.
I agree with this.
A logo may or may not be important (I think it is because people have a trend to
associate the quality of the product with the quality of the logo) but that
particular penguin doesn't look very well (too fat and looks a little
bit dumb/silly, I'm sorry if I ofended anybody but this is how it looks to me).
OTOH something like a Chilly-Willy (remember ?) may be nice, byt as mascot
not logo. I mean is nothing wrong with a "penguin" ideea but it depens how you
draw it.
A logo most be something simple wich looks well on various media;
being able both to look well in black and white (magazines) and to take full
advantage of color where available.
Cheers,
--
______________________________________________________________________
Ryurick M. Hristev ()..()/^\/^\
phy...@phys.canterbury.ac.nz \/ \#/\#/\) What opinions ? -<:-)
______________________________________________________________________
drsoran
Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) wrote:
: The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
: bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
: commercial interest. Who wants his products
: associated with a platform that manifests itself as
: utterly pre-adolescent?
Damn.. if I didn't know better I would swear you're talking about
Bill Gates.
--
----------------------------------------------------
drs...@ni.cba.csuohio.edu
M$-Win95 user: "Why is this running so slow today?"
drsoran
Berend_W_van_Bemmel (bem...@xs4all.nl) wrote:
: So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
: the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
: pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
: put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).
I agree on that note.. actually.. it might be best to leave out
the word "Linux" altogether for now.. concentrate on making a solid,
recognizable, simple line-art figure of SOMETHING that people will be
able to recognize even without the words Linux... like someone said
before.. the Nike logo is one example... the Pepsi symbol is another.
Something that would look good as ascii-art is probably also a good
choice.. :) Ever see those type of logos.. like the Lucent logo for
instance.. it sort of looks like the artist just whipped it up.. doesn't
have any fancy ray-traced shadows or anything.. if I remember correctly
it looks just like a bunch of rough paint splotched curves (complete with
the rough edge where the paintbrush would have left the canvas leaving
uneven parts). Maybe a rough outline of a fat little penguin (maybe a
side view?) done like this would look good? Don't even connect all the
lines.. make it look like that guy on PBS that used to draw the "happy
little trees" would have drawn it.. in two seconds with 3-4 paintbrush
strokes.. :) SIMPLE!
a0...@lehigh.edu
Michael Dillon (mic...@memra.com) wrote:
: Ooohhhh!! GREAT IDEA!!!
: Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
: Pengo with his thumb raised.
this is the best use for the penguin. it makes a STUPID logo; the penguin
looks fat and silly, not exactly something that you would want to
associate with linux. however, it would be great in the above use.
anyone else?
--
a0...@lehigh.edu - bethlehem, pennsylvania, usa | nindepechemodefoetusf242coil
proud linux user; dos is only good for games. | pweikmfdmtommy!auto!win95!CDA
Grant Edwards
Michael Dillon (mic...@memra.com) wrote:
: >It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone
: >screens either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as
: >well in black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m.
: This is true.
: >The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
: >at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
: This is not true. The curves on the penguin are just right for doing very
: small sizes as well as black and white.
: >If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
: >the original), then toss it out.
: I'm sure that if you asked the artist to do a black and white version of
: the logo that they could produce one for you. This is an excellent logo
: as good as or better than the BSD daemon.
Somebody has done nice B/W postscript and grey/dithered postscript versions
of the penguin at http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
The penguin is getting much closer to being usable as a logo. I'm still not
all that crazy about the penguin -- it's still a bit complicated, but that's
a subjective matter of personal taste. My previous objections were
(hopefully) of a more objective nature.
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Remember, in 2039,
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | MOUSSE & PASTA will be
| is the question, and | available ONLY by
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | prescription!!
Hugh McCurdy
mic...@memra.com (Michael Dillon) wrote:
>P.S. Linus, who owns the rights to Pengo? For instance if I wanted to make
>stuffed toy Pengo's who would I licence the design from. Same thing for
>T-shirts and other products other than Linux distruibutions.
Wouldn't this fall under the GPL <g>? Thus you could not prevent the
Penguin from roaming (swimming?) freely, having little penguins,
etc....
Hugh McCurdy
drsoran
Mike Frisch (fri...@mailhub.hcl.com) wrote:
: In article <31EB0194...@erols.com>, Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
: >I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
: >several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
: Agreed. The penguin is a little ridiculous... Even the name
: "Linux" done in colour and a fancy font would be appropriate. The
: penguin isn't...
Well.. ever see OS/2 Warp's logo? Looks like someone was
tripping on acid when they were creating that thing. The penguin is
ridiculous huh.. should he perhaps be holding a "virtual brewery" beer
mug and have a silly little T-shirt that says "Linux" on it? :) You guys
just really have to lighten up. Yes, the penguin is probably better off
being a "mascot".. but maybe some of you with those slick high powered
ray-tracing systems can make a Linux logo with the words "Linux" and just
a blue-gray or silver outline of a penguin.. Though, I have this feeling
that I think someone else has a penguin as a logo.. isn't there a book
publisher that uses it? Anyway.. Linux with an outlined Penguin in
silver/blue whatever.. like a steel color would look kind of cool. And
yes.. it should look good in black and white as well so people can put it
on letterheads or something. :) Damn.. wish I could draw. ;)
Benjamin Tracy
Use Linux. But, beware of the penguin.....Doobee Doobee Doooo....
Ben
John Stevens
In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
Thanks for the history lesson. I didn't know this.
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
100% agreement. I don't have any opinions on the penguin, but I agree
with your statments about logo design, and I would like to stress that
this kind of design work would be much better done by a graphics artist. . .
>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
Yup.
>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.
>
>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>
>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.
Agreed. Any graphics artists out there who would like to draw a penguin
logo for us compter nerd types?
Hey, we may be really good with software and systems, but that doesn't
qualify us to do graphics design. . .
John S.
Hugh McCurdy
jste...@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) wrote:
(snip)
>Hey, we may be really good with software and systems, but that doesn't
>qualify us to do graphics design. . .
>John S.
It certainly doesn't qualify ME to do graphic design. But that
doesn't mean that nobody can do both. In fact, I knew someone in
college who could do both well.
Hugh McCurdy
Bob Nelson
James Walter Martin III (jw...@chubb.com) wrote:
> I do not like the penguin. I use Linux because it's
> the best OS and I want it to be seriously considered
> as a corporate server - a silly logo makes it all the
> more difficult to convince some management-types that
> Linux is for real.
Their recent air tragedy notwithstanding, Atlanta-based ValuJet also
featured a "silly logo" and was the darling of Wall Street and
coroporate suites in spite of the cartoonish logo.
Plus, Linux Torvalds likes it. End of story...quitcher bitchen. :)
--
=============================================================================
Bob Nelson: Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. - bne...@netcom.com
linux for fun, M$ for $$$...and the NFL for what really counts!
=============================================================================
Graham Swallow
Seems we need more than one LOGO / Mascot / Image.
Personally I like the "Linux" with the orange underline.
Other system components can have other logos, for example
http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw (HOWTOS) uses a rather stylish seagull.
Question is, who gets the Vulture? the ELKS project ?
Whatever images are chosen, they will need several versions.
For example, an inline.gif to be used like the www _new_ symbol,
monochrome versions, scalable versions, etc.
How do I use the "transparent" background ? Comes out blue for me!
Graham g...@trix.dircon.co.uk
--
-----------------------------------
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~trix <-- Linux Info Pages
http://trix.dircon.co.uk/ (dial-up) <-- Raven Kept Here
-----------------------------------
>>>>>> "AB" == brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
>
> AB> I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
> AB> Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal
> AB> for covers of future Linux titles.
e...@lodge.ton.tut.fi (Edvard Majakari) writes:
> Yup; but wasn't this logo meant for the kernel? So, there could be
> another Linux logo concurrently with the Penguin. On the other hand,
> Linux isn't but just the kernel... but we could use some other logo to
> symbolize the whole 'system', which varies quite a lot,
> though. System, which is based on kernels 2.x
Ariel Mazzarelli
Raymond Nijssen <ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
>> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
>> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
>> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
>How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
>willing to produce versions of their commercial
>software for Linux.
I thought that was at least half the point. If you are a vendor that is swayed
by logos rather than content, please stick to other platforms.
Ariel
Ariel Mazzarelli
The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature. No
marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why I
like it.
Ariel
Todd Bezenek
)will be a HUGE mistake
I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
a good logo looks like.
See the 1996 Summer Olympics "torch" logo at the top-left of the
Olympics home page at http://www.atlanta.olympic.org/ . THAT is a good
logo.
-Todd
--
Todd M. Bezenek | Department of Computer Sciences
E-mail: bez...@cs.wisc.edu | University of Wisconsin--Madison
Web: www.cs.wisc.edu/~bezenek
Marsala
<bez...@lion.cs.wisc.edu> says:
>In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
>Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>)The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>)will be a HUGE mistake
>
>I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
>Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
>a good logo looks like.
Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the
'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?
Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop
Win95 or MacOS and buisness users are willing to trade NT for it is a
long way off. The basic reason: they're easier to use. And they're
easier to use because businesses have sunk lots of money into paying
programmers to make them easier to use.
If you love Linux so much that you want it installed on every home
computer, laptop, and network server in the world, then 86 the
sophmoric debates about which logo looks best, pick up a few books,
and make a contribution.
Considering all that Mr. Torvalds has put into, and is *still* putting
into this project, if he wants a penguin, then a penguin he shall have.
-Marsala
--
"My music isn't about anger, it's just that I'm a very intense person."
-Art Alexakis
ch...@scotgate.demon.co.uk
I agree!
I think the Penguin is a great logo!
Anybody who thinks it's """childish""" obviously doesn't use windoze95!
Any operating system that can have a "bee" as a mouse pointer, doesn't get my
vote!
Vote "Penguin"! Use "xvsetbg penguin.gif"
Cheers
Chris
------------------------------------------------------------------
İ Chris H. Lindley İ
İ eMail; ch...@scotgate.demon.co.uk İ
İ Postal: Scotgate Cottage, Honley, West Yorkshire, HD7 2JQ, UK İ
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Hauck
In article <4sn1m9$d...@sidhe.memra.com>,
mic...@memra.com (Michael Dillon) writes:
> Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
> Pengo with his thumb raised.
A few ads in the August Linux Journal have a thing like that
already:
C O O L
it works with
L I N U X
This is in a small box similar to the one people use for "Netware
Approved". Don't know who started it, but it's a good idea.
---
Bob Hauck bo...@wasatch.com
Wasatch Communications Group http://www.wasatch.com
Grant Edwards
Ariel Mazzarelli (maz...@primenet.com) wrote:
: The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature.
: No marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why
: I like it.
That'll be news to Penguin Books (a publisher that has a stylized drawing
of a penguin as it's logo).
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Our father who art in
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | heaven.. I sincerely pray
| is the question, and | that SOMEBODY at this table
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | will PAY for my SHREDDED WHAT
| and ENGLISH MUFFIN..
Ariel Mazzarelli
gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
>Ariel Mazzarelli (maz...@primenet.com) wrote:
>: The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature.
>: No marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why
>: I like it.
>That'll be news to Penguin Books (a publisher that has a stylized drawing
>of a penguin as it's logo).
I think that a company that publishes Livy and Rumpole is definitely not
filled with marketing geeks.
Maybe they should be approached about publishing a history of Linux. :)
Ariel
OS2 User
Marsala (ma...@loeffel.txdirect.net) wrote:
: Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the
: 'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
: morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
: work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
: for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
: Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?
You are very right about what Linux really needs to get support into
the maintream. However, a good logo wouldn't HURT. I have seen the
logo and to be frank I am not too impressed.
I believe in the poster who said logos should be simple and presentable
in B&W. I'm all for the penguin animal. Why not produce a simple
OUTLINE of the pengiun, with varying line widths, with a serif Linux
below it. If you can picture it in your head it actually looks good.
Chris Tyler
John Stevens wrote:
> In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
> Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
> >
> >Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
> >cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
> >is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
> >of a particular organization.
'Logo' was originally short for 'logotype' ("a single piece of type bearing a
syllable, word, or words"), but the two words have apparently diverged in current
usage. "Logo" is often used to refer to a symbol associated with a product, company,
or organization, while "logotype" is often used to refer to a stylized writing of all
or part of a company name. Thus the Coke "dynamic swirl" and the Apple rainbow apple
are logos, and the stylized writings of "Coca-Cola" and "IBM" is a logotype-- at
least among the graphics people I've worked with lately. (?)
But I digress. We *do* need a simple, monochrome-compatible,
instantly-recognizable-at-any-size symbol-- and the penguin mascott doesn't cut it.
--
Chris Tyler <CTy...@Oxford.net>
Global Proximity Corporation (519) 421-3541 / fax (519) 421-2107
Internet and Computer Consulting
Schick
Mark Hamstra wrote:
>
> Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
> >
> > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
>
> This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
> control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>
Maybe you should write your own kernel, support it, and sift through
scads of email everyday (just for starters), then you can have your own
mascot.
--
--- Schick
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Gates VS Linus Torvalds
Only on Pay Per View !!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linus Torvalds
In article <1996Jul19.1...@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>
>Somebody has done nice B/W postscript and grey/dithered postscript versions
>of the penguin at http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
That "somebody" is the author of the original penguin, and the B/W and
gray and dithered versions were _always_ there. Let me just quote from
the "logo.txt" file that comes with the kernel sources:
This is the full-colour version of the currently unofficial Linux
logo ("currently unofficial" just means that there has been no
paperwork and that I haven't really announced it yet). It was
created by Larry Ewing, and is freely usable as long as you
acknowledge Larry as the original artist.
[ editors note: I've announced it now, so I guess I should remove the
"unofficial" comment ]
Note that there are black-and-white versions of this available that
scale down to smaller sizes and are better for letterheads or
whatever you want to use it for: for the full range of logos take a
look at Larry's web-page:
http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
It looks like all the penguin-haters in this discussion haven't even
_looked_ at the penguin? There are several versions of it, and I only
made the full-colour version available in the kernel sources because I
felt that that is the one best used for web-pages etc, and that if
somebody wants to do letter-heads he is also willing to take the 2
minutes to download the black-and-white postscript outline version..
Believe me, I _knew_ people would like a version that scales down. The
penguin _does_ scale down. But if you think that a logo has to be
black-and-white and simple, you're living in the past: printing
technology has come a _long_ way, and web-serving is starting to be a
rather important forum for commercial ventures.
Logo's no longer have to be simple (face it: logo's are traditionally
simple because they HAD to be simple for technical reasons, but that is
no longer necessarily true). Having a cute and colourful logo can be a
_advantage_, especially on the web..
In short, at least give the penguin a fair viewing. If you still don't
like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you
do.
Linus "what, me arrogant?" Torvalds
Michael Zboray
I still don't like the penguin.
But if Linus said he really wanted the peguin it would probably be accepted.
Contribution warrents a bigger say. (In real life it does not work this way)
Unfortunately, the typical non-linux user won't understand the subtle meanings
of picking a penguin (I've been a user for two years and I don't get it :^(
Going with the simple professional logos with the name Linux boldly displayed
makes more marketing sense, if that is important.
Mike Zboray
Marsala (ma...@loeffel.txdirect.net) wrote:
: <bez...@lion.cs.wisc.edu> says:
: >In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
: >Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
: >)The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
: >)will be a HUGE mistake
: >
: >I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
: >Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
: >a good logo looks like.
: Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the
: 'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
: morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
: work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
: for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
: Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?
: Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop
Bob Nelson
> But if Linus said he really wanted the peguin it would probably be accepted.
> Contribution warrents a bigger say. (In real life it does not work this way)
> Unfortunately, the typical non-linux user won't understand the subtle meanings
> of picking a penguin (I've been a user for two years and I don't get it :^(
> Going with the simple professional logos with the name Linux boldly displayed
> makes more marketing sense, if that is important.
Marketing isn't that important for an already fine hacker's operating
system. (Hacker used in the best sense of that word). The success of
linux is already well established and doesn't hinge on any acceptance
by those incapable of appreciating it for what it is.
Hal Duston
Schick (sch...@broadwaynet.com) wrote:
: Mark Hamstra wrote:
: >
: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
: > >
: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
: >
: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
: >
: > Mark
: Maybe you should write your own kernel, support it, and sift through
: scads of email everyday (just for starters), then you can have your own
: mascot.
: --
Hmm, I have been using Linux since January, I didn't "install" the
Penguin, and it (linux) works just fine. I looked at it but chose
not to "install" it on my system. I may "install" something else
instead or live with out any mascot. I really don't need one.
: --- Schick
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Bill Gates VS Linus Torvalds
: Only on Pay Per View !!
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Duston Boring is good.
ha...@tyrell.net
Jack Walker
For what its worth, I like the penguin. Up with penguins / down with
marketing oriented posts. Preoccupation with market concerns is what
may be the death of Linux. If you think Linux needs killers apps to
garner market share shut up and go write some ;)
Jack
U.M...@t-online.de
Much of what was said here is true.
- a logo should be simple
- a logo should be easy to draw
...
so I would agree that the penguin is no good logo. It should be really
up to a marketing designer to create a LinuX logo which is easy to
memorize at first sight, will look good in any size be it colored or
black and white and is associated with a phrase representing the product.
A good example for this is the Intel Inside logo. Everyone knows what
this should imply. The next step is to spread this logo and give it to
software and hardware producers as a certificate saying "linux approved".
Novell started thsi with its "Yes it runs with NetWare" logo and M$
just picked it up for their Windows 3.0 campaign assigning the flying
windows to every software designed to run(?!) under Windows. As
commercial apps are now coming up for Linux there should be a good
and easy to use logo and a test suite to test the compatibility. And
if a product proofs to run with Linux the logo should stick on it
saying "this is LinuX approved". So to sum it up, the penguin is not
the right thing for this, because there is no association line to
LinuX.
Uli
--
____________________________________________________________________
UM - Consulting Roseneggweg 2
Client/Server Computing D-78244 Gottmadingen
Distributed Databases E-Mail: U.M...@t-online.de
Ulrich Moser Office: Moser....@ch.swissbank.com
Grant Edwards
Bob Nelson (bne...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Marketing isn't that important for an already fine hacker's operating
: system. (Hacker used in the best sense of that word). The success of
: linux is already well established and doesn't hinge on any acceptance
: by those incapable of appreciating it for what it is.
Which is why it makes such a lovely thing to argue about:
1. It's mostly subjective.
2. It really doesn't matter.
3. Everybody is qualified to have an opinion.
Questions with verifiablly correct answers just aren't any fun at all.
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Pardon me, but do you
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | know what it means to be
| is the question, and | TRULY ONE with your BOOTH!
William Edward Webber
Grant Edwards (gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com) opined:
:
: Which is why it makes such a lovely thing to argue about:
:
: 1. It's mostly subjective.
: 2. It really doesn't matter.
: 3. Everybody is qualified to have an opinion.
:
: Questions with verifiablly correct answers just aren't any fun at all.
I agree. Arguing the technical merits of an OS requires at least some
understanding of computing, isn't really all that sexy, and leaves you
liable to being proven wrong. But anyone can join in a raging debate
about a Penguin. That's why I think we should do what we can to make
sure this debate goes on for as long as possible, and is spread to
as many newsgroups as it can be, so that progressively more and
more eager newbie flame warriors are drawn in. In time, they may
become so interested in this burning contemporary issue that they
decide to actually install Linux itself. This could be a real
boon for the Linux movement! (But perhaps Linus has already seen
all this...)
William Webber
--
William Webber Postgrad. Dip. in CS, RMIT, Australia
w...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~wew/
Interests: linux, chess, Glenn Gould
"Well, I'll say this for you, the quality of your stupidity is rising"
- Lucy, from Peanuts.
Pat Traynor
>'mainstream'?
>
>Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop
>Win95 or MacOS and buisness users are willing to trade NT for it is a
>long way off.
A very long way off. Try never. And if you think that the fact that
Linux is a superior OS to "mainstream" offerings has any bearing on
things, think again. And if you want any proof of this, check your
history. The Tucker automobile, the Beta videotape format... the list
goes on and on.
>If you love Linux so much that you want it installed on every home
>computer, laptop, and network server in the world, then 86 the
>sophmoric debates about which logo looks best, pick up a few books,
>and make a contribution.
Personally, I think that the advice is excellent, but the reason is
wrong. Like I said before, Linux will never be installed on every
home computer unless Bill Gates, in moment of pure nastiness, decides
to name Windows 97 "Linux". If I had the programming expertise to
do it, I'd certainly make a contribution. Perhaps someday I will.
I'm all for contributing to the common good. And Linux is DAMN good!
>Considering all that Mr. Torvalds has put into, and is *still* putting
>into this project, if he wants a penguin, then a penguin he shall have.
This sounds like "It's *my* ball, and we play *my* way, or I'm going
home!" And Linus simply doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would
have that kind of an attitude. He's incorporated MANY people's software
and ideas into the current version of Linux, and I'd have to suspect
that he'd be equally as open to alternate logo ideas.
My opinion of the logo is that it's cute, but it doesn't say "Linux" to
me. I'd prefer something that had the text "Linux" as part of the logo.
While I'm convinced that Linux will never be on every computer, I
*would* like to see the user base expanded, and as more and more people
see "Linux", they might take it seriously. Otherwise, they might just
think that the penguin is simply a reference to some organization that
they're unfamiliar with, or perhaps the web site author is a graduate
from a school that had a penguin for a team mascot.
--pat--
--
Pat Traynor
p...@ssih.com
Arthur D. Jerijian
In article <4sucon$a...@twin.wasatch.com>, bo...@wasatch.com says...
>
>In article <4sn1m9$d...@sidhe.memra.com>,
> mic...@memra.com (Michael Dillon) writes:
>
>> Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
>> Pengo with his thumb raised.
>
>A few ads in the August Linux Journal have a thing like that
>already:
>
> C O O L
> it works with
> L I N U X
>
>This is in a small box similar to the one people use for "Netware
>Approved". Don't know who started it, but it's a good idea.
This campaign was started by Linux Journal themselves. They would
allow a vendor to display the logo if you paid LJ a small fee (to cover
registration costs) and if you meed a certain guidelines. I don't know the
details, but you might (hopefully) find them somewhere on http://www.ssc.com.
>---
> Bob Hauck bo...@wasatch.com
> Wasatch Communications Group http://www.wasatch.com
--Arthur
Mark Levitt
On 26 Jul 1996 04:53:52 GMT, cele...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> This campaign was started by Linux Journal themselves. They would
>allow a vendor to display the logo if you paid LJ a small fee (to cover
>registration costs) and if you meed a certain guidelines. I don't know the
>details, but you might (hopefully) find them somewhere on http://www.ssc.com.
The fee isn't really to cover registration costs, it's to make the
licensing of the logo a legal action (something of value has to be exchanged
for it).
Basically, it's supposed to be used like those "designed for Windows 95"
logos. If your hardware or software works with Linux, then you can use the
logo...
--
____________________________________________________________________
Mark E. Levitt
Department of Speech Communication, Syracuse University
E-mail: mele...@syr.edu
Home Page: http://web.syr.edu/~melevitt
PGP fingerprint = B8 A3 AA A6 0F 83 9A BE F2 7A 19 F9 15 79 FE A4
Public key available from http://web.syr.edu/~melevitt/pgpkey.html
____________________________________________________________________
Wim Vandeputte
Pat Traynor (p...@ssih.com) wrote:
: My opinion of the logo is that it's cute, but it doesn't say "Linux" to
: me. I'd prefer something that had the text "Linux" as part of the logo.
: While I'm convinced that Linux will never be on every computer, I
: *would* like to see the user base expanded, and as more and more people
: see "Linux", they might take it seriously. Otherwise, they might just
: think that the penguin is simply a reference to some organization that
: they're unfamiliar with, or perhaps the web site author is a graduate
: from a school that had a penguin for a team mascot.
so what do you think then of the bsd Demon (Daemon, devil...)
it doesn't have any ref to computer operating systems
or does it?
and yet I see it pop up on more places it should be (notably on our Uni's
webserver which is a Sun :-)
Erik Larsen
Sorry to take this out of context, but:
Pat Traynor wrote:
> This sounds like "It's *my* ball, and we play *my* way, or I'm going
> home!" And Linus simply doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would
> have that kind of an attitude. He's incorporated MANY people's software
> and ideas into the current version of Linux, and I'd have to suspect
> that he'd be equally as open to alternate logo ideas.
>
> My opinion of the logo is that it's cute, but it doesn't say "Linux" to
> me. I'd prefer something that had the text "Linux" as part of the logo.
> While I'm convinced that Linux will never be on every computer, I
> *would* like to see the user base expanded, and as more and more people
> see "Linux", they might take it seriously. Otherwise, they might just
> think that the penguin is simply a reference to some organization that
> they're unfamiliar with, or perhaps the web site author is a graduate
> from a school that had a penguin for a team mascot.
>
> --pat--
> --
> Pat Traynor
> p...@ssih.com
The penquin's cute, and it does have a "Linux" sign, at least the verion that I
have seen. Any logo is like the "mascot" problem. No one knows what to associate
a logo with unless they know what it represents. Personally, I like it better
then the platypus.
-Erik Larsen
==============================================================================
= Microsoft can have my modem when they take my cold, dead computer away. =
= If it computes, TCP/IP it. If it can't TCP/IP, put a Un*x on it. =
= If you can't afford a Un*x, get Linux. If it won't run Linux =
= GET A REAL MACHINE! =
====== ela...@baker.cnw.com ==== http://www.cnw.com/~elarsen/index.html =====
Robert Woodcock
Marsala (ma...@loeffel.txdirect.net) composed eloquently:
>Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop
>Win95 or MacOS and buisness users are willing to trade NT for it is a
>easier to use because businesses have sunk lots of money into paying
>programmers to make them easier to use.
Oh, how stupid of me. All this time, I've been classifying myself as
a home user. I guess the problem is I've never really had a craving
for 2x4's, drywall, 3-tab shingles, brick... :)
Which brings up the question: "What am I?"
For the sake of thoughtful discussion, assume that was a rhetorical
question. :)
--
Robert Woodcock - r...@netcom.com
Texas law forbids anyone to have a pair of pliers in his possession.
Steve Dunham
torv...@linux.cs.Helsinki.FI (Linus Torvalds) writes:
> Logo's no longer have to be simple (face it: logo's are traditionally
> simple because they HAD to be simple for technical reasons, but that is
> no longer necessarily true). Having a cute and colourful logo can be a
> _advantage_, especially on the web..
That still leaves an important issue open: The FreeBSD people have a
plush toy in the image of their daemon mascot. We need a plush
penguin.
Is there anyone out there with the connections and will to manufacture
such a thing?
Steve
dun...@gdl.msu.edu
Grant Edwards
Linus Torvalds (torv...@linux.cs.Helsinki.FI) wrote:
: Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
: >
: >Somebody has done nice B/W postscript and grey/dithered postscript versions
: >of the penguin at http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
Linus posted a follow-up to one of my posts, and I once got mail from Kibo.
Y'all might as well just shoot me now. Did I mention than one time in
Heidelberg I stayed in the same hotel as Latoya Jackson?
: That "somebody" is the author of the original penguin, and the B/W and
: gray and dithered versions were _always_ there.
Somehow that fact slipped past me. My apologies to Larry.
: Let me just quote from the "logo.txt" file that comes with the kernel
: sources:
:
: This is the full-colour version of the currently unofficial Linux
: logo
[...]
: [ editors note: I've announced it now, so I guess I should remove the
: "unofficial" comment ]
If it's really official then that's that. We'll just have to go back to
arguing about pronunciation. If you declare an official english
pronunciation, we'll really be at loose ends.
: In short, at least give the penguin a fair viewing. If you still don't
: like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you
: do.
: Linus "what, me arrogant?" Torvalds
In my dictionary the definition of "arogant" is _unwarranted_ pride or
self-importance. You've got a long way to go before you cross that line.
:)
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! I just had my entire
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | INTESTINAL TRACT coated with
| is the question, and | TEFLON!
Grant Edwards
Steve Dunham (dun...@gdl.msu.edu) wrote:
: That still leaves an important issue open: The FreeBSD people have a plush
: toy in the image of their daemon mascot. We need a plush penguin.
: Is there anyone out there with the connections and will to manufacture
: such a thing?
I'm sure there are lots of plush penguins already being manufactured -- it
might be easier to look around for an existing one that works and declaring
it the Official Linux Plush Penguin.
--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Are we laid back yet?
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft |
| is the question, and |
Bryan SEIGNEUR
Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> Steve Dunham (dun...@gdl.msu.edu) wrote:
>
> : That still leaves an important issue open: The FreeBSD people have a plush
> : toy in the image of their daemon mascot. We need a plush penguin.
>
> : Is there anyone out there with the connections and will to manufacture
> : such a thing?
>
> I'm sure there are lots of plush penguins already being manufactured -- it
> might be easier to look around for an existing one that works and declaring
> it the Official Linux Plush Penguin.
We should've chosen a tiger. Hobbes isn't trademarked, unlike Opus.
Anyway, Berke Breathed can't sue me just for putting an Opus doll
on top of the server for kicks.
Don H. Nelson
Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm sure there are lots of plush penguins already being manufactured
> -- it
> might be easier to look around for an existing one that works and
> declaring
> it the Official Linux Plush Penguin.
Opus?
:-)
Don
Holger Petersen
gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
>I'm sure there are lots of plush penguins already being manufactured
Just some days ago, our local Newspaper started to sell a version of
the 'plush penguin'. But it seems to be a young one, it has sort of
gray instead of black [hair|feather] and not the linux-real yellow
legs...
greetings, Holger
PS: Price is 19.80 DM (about 13.33 US$) and postage to austria is
12 DM [I exported one to a plusch-fan there]
Michael White
allow the commercialization of the characters in the strip. Read the
info in the last book he put out.
--
- Mike
Bryan SEIGNEUR
Michael Hamilton wrote:
>
> I think many objections would go away if the "penguin" looked cool and
> fast, rather than like a over-weight baby.
>
> Does anyone have the artistic talent to achieve this?
>
> Anyone who's seen a penguin in the water, knows they are fast. They
> more look like a Harrier jet than a fat blob.
That's known as the Opus factor.
> Down here in New Zealand, a brand of potato chips uses an computer
> animated Penguin in TV advert: a cool and realistic looking penguin does a
> ski-jump off the snow, lands in the water where it water-skis, and then
> does a flip through the air to finish back on the snow -- the tow boat is
> a killer whale. All done by a local computer graphics company.
>
> Penguins can look cool and fast. Implying penguins are fat blobs is
> an insult to penguins.
Stereotypes: the language of hate. :P
Man this is an utterly inconsequential discussion!
> ---
> Michael Hamilton (http://www.actrix.gen.nz/users/michael)
> Happily running Linux since January 1992.
Actually, as id is so incredibly helpful in aiding members
of its "non-markets", I was kind of thinking about putting
up a clearinghouse of Quake Linux information on a web page
(a la http://jcomm.uoregon.edu/~stevev/Linux-DOOM-FAQ.html ).
The graphic at the top would be a muscled penguin and an agile
fox ( http://www.early.com/~emackey/linux/ ) exchanging wholly
inordinate amounts of ordnance with a little redhaired nerd
in glasses (a la xbill). Of course Bill would be the one
getting the most pounding, if not already disemboweled.
Of course, I have to get some more information on Linux
Quake myself before I can distribute any. Where is Dave
Taylor got to nowadays?!
:)
--
Bryan
Michael Hamilton
I think many objections would go away if the "penguin" looked cool and
fast, rather than like a over-weight baby.
Does anyone have the artistic talent to achieve this?
Anyone who's seen a penguin in the water, knows they are fast. They
more look like a Harrier jet than a fat blob.
Down here in New Zealand, a brand of potato chips uses an computer
animated Penguin in TV advert: a cool and realistic looking penguin does a
ski-jump off the snow, lands in the water where it water-skis, and then
does a flip through the air to finish back on the snow -- the tow boat is
a killer whale. All done by a local computer graphics company.
Penguins can look cool and fast. Implying penguins are fat blobs is
an insult to penguins.
---
Bryan SEIGNEUR
> : toy in the image of their daemon mascot. We need a plush penguin.
>
> : Is there anyone out there with the connections and will to manufacture
> : such a thing?
>
> might be easier to look around for an existing one that works and declaring
> it the Official Linux Plush Penguin.
I hope Berke Breathed and his publishers don't get too ticked off at us.
(Hint, he writes/wrote Outland/Bloom County).
--
Bryan
Matthias Bruestle
Mahlzeit
Michael Hamilton (mic...@actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
> Down here in New Zealand, a brand of potato chips uses an computer
> animated Penguin in TV advert: a cool and realistic looking penguin does a
> ski-jump off the snow, lands in the water where it water-skis, and then
> does a flip through the air to finish back on the snow -- the tow boat is
> a killer whale. All done by a local computer graphics company.
I've seen it here on TV. It is very nice.
> Penguins can look cool and fast. Implying penguins are fat blobs is
> an insult to penguins.
Jung penguins are probably fat blobs.
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
PGP:1024/0xDCB8D00F I LOVE MY PDP-11/34A!
--
Ich bin der Rechner und der Rechner bin ich.