Suggestion for COLA

[White Spirit]

Quality control and reliability is important. The same principle applies to opinions and advice and I therefore propose that in order to ensure that only the best opinions are expressed, a specific subset of acceptable views is adopted on COLA. Anyone expressing something that falls outside of the accepted points of view should be routinely pilloried and subjected to a character assassination in order to warn people what happens to those who share unauthorised opinions.

This might mean that newbies are scared away and knowledgeable people deterred from sharing experience that could benefit people thinking of adopting Linux but that is surely a small price to pay for preserving the purity of thought and hegemony that makes COLA what it is to-day. Indeed, so essential is the crusade that it would be better to automatically suspect the newcomer of ill intent and seize upon the earliest opportunity to denounce them once and for all, even if you don't have a single shred of proof.

The opinion is what counts (subject to approval) and if you are unable to counter an opposing view this is a clear indication that you are dealing with a dangerous individual who should be ignored. Failure to do so could result in your ultimate humiliation and this is the only thing worse than expressing unacceptable opinions.

I trust you will heed what I say.

[Hardon]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:40:19 -0700, White Spirit wrote:

> Quality control and reliability is important.

Let's start at the basics. If you can't be bothered to adhere to basic
usenet netiquette by keeping your article line lengths < 80 characters
then I can't be bothered reading whatever you have to say.

--
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or
a dose of common sense.
- Chapman Cohen

[White Spirit]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:10:11 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:

> Let's start at the basics. If you can't be bothered to adhere to basic
> usenet netiquette by keeping your article line lengths < 80 characters

I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.

> then I can't be bothered reading whatever you have to say.

In other words, you'll run away in the face of anything you can't refute in true clique style.

[Hardon]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:

> On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:10:11 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:
>
>> Let's start at the basics. If you can't be bothered to adhere to
>> basic usenet netiquette by keeping your article line lengths < 80
>> characters
>
> I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.

Many other people using google groups manage line wrapping just fine.
Of course google groups also attracts arseholes in the same way AOL
did. Why use google groups when there are free and cheap usenet
providers?

>> then I can't be bothered reading whatever you have to say.
>
> In other words, you'll run away in the face of anything you can't
> refute in true clique style.

As I said, when you show you have some usenet etiquette I may read
your posts. Until then you're pissing into the wind sonny.

--
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for
every noble enterprise.
-James Madison

[White Spirit]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:44:34 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:

> > I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.

> Many other people using google groups manage line wrapping just fine.
> Of course google groups also attracts arseholes in the same way AOL
> did. Why use google groups when there are free and cheap usenet
> providers?

It's a temporary thing.

> As I said, when you show you have some usenet etiquette I may read
> your posts.

But you obviously just did read my post.

> Until then you're pissing into the wind sonny.

My, aren't we feeling paternal.

[Hardon]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:48:22 -0700, White Spirit wrote:

> On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:44:34 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>
>> > I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>
>> Many other people using google groups manage line wrapping just
>> fine. Of course google groups also attracts arseholes in the same
>> way AOL did. Why use google groups when there are free and cheap
>> usenet providers?
>
> It's a temporary thing.

What? Your inability to line wrap?

>> As I said, when you show you have some usenet etiquette I may read
>> your posts.
>
> But you obviously just did read my post.

But I didn't read the one with 450+ character lines.

>> Until then you're pissing into the wind sonny.
>
> My, aren't we feeling paternal.

Whatever child.

--
I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes
evil.
-Albert Einstein

[Foster]

Hardon = Roy Culley just proved your points.

[Foster]

Hardon = Roy Culley just proved your points once again.

[Ezekiel]

"Hardon" <hardon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:n9tXr.3791$aV7....@fed07.iad...

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:40:19 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>
>> Quality control and reliability is important.
>
> Let's start at the basics. If you can't be bothered to adhere to basic
> usenet netiquette by keeping your article line lengths < 80 characters
> then I can't be bothered reading whatever you have to say.
>

Interesting that a hypocrite like you has no problem with the lack of usenet
netiquette from the likes of Dumb Willie or Chris Ahlstrom who regularly
post with a sig that's DOZENS of lines long.

I don't see many complaints about the 7-tard spamming the group with the
same idiotic cut-n-paste nonsense that's pages long.

[White Spirit]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:56:53 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:48:22 -0700, White Spirit wrote:

> >> Why use google groups when there are free and cheap
> >> usenet providers?

> > It's a temporary thing.

> What? Your inability to line wrap?

I see your reading comprehension is rather poor.

> >> As I said, when you show you have some usenet etiquette I may read
> >> your posts.

> > But you obviously just did read my post.

> But I didn't read the one with 450+ character lines.

Of course you did; you just won't admit to it because it hit a little bit too close to home.

[White Spirit]

It's amusing to see how he and his fellow clique members operate. As soon as incontrovertible ideas are expressed that they don't like, the doors are locked and bolted and no one is home.

[Foster]

The herd rarely if ever attacks it's own.

[Foster]

Good analysis.

[William Poaster]

Here is a facsimile from Hardon who, on 17/8/2012 16:56, wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:48:22 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:44:34 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>> > I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.

<piggybacked>
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

>>> Many other people using google groups manage line wrapping just
>>> fine. Of course google groups also attracts arseholes in the same
>>> way AOL did. Why use google groups when there are free and cheap
>>> usenet providers?
>>
>> It's a temporary thing.
>
> What? Your inability to line wrap?
>
>>> As I said, when you show you have some usenet etiquette I may read
>>> your posts.
>>
>> But you obviously just did read my post.
>
> But I didn't read the one with 450+ character lines.
>
>>> Until then you're pissing into the wind sonny.
>>
>> My, aren't we feeling paternal.
>
> Whatever child.
>

--

Floppy not responding. Press any key to format HARD DRIVE instead

Micro$oft, the company that makes spreading malware easy.

Microsoft exec Ron Markezich was quoted saying that for every $1
companies spend on Microsoft software, they need to spend $6 getting
it to work right. -- April 2011 SanFrancisco Chronical --

"We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving
it down the throats of our users."
-- Paul Maritz, Microsoft group vice president --

What's bad about Micro$oft:
http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

[White Spirit]

On 17/08/12 18:00, William Poaster wrote:

> <piggybacked>
> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

I have been on Usenet since long before Google Groups existed, or even
DejaNews. Sometimes it makes more sense for me to post via Google Groups.

I though you supported choice?

[Peter Köhlmann]

Lets say he supports the truth. And that is in short supply with the likes
of you

[RonB]

I choose to use something other than Google Groups.

Non-problem solved.

[White Spirit]

On 17/08/12 23:01, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Lets say he supports the truth. And that is in short supply with the likes
> of you

I'm someone who recognises the truth, which puts me in a position to see
through your attempts to disseminate what you perceive to be the truth.

[William Poaster]

Personally I don't see why it makes more sense for anyone to post via
GoogleGroups, unless they're a complete noob/spammer/troll.
(delete applicable)

--
Linux: Your Brain - Windows: Your brain on drugs.

[William Poaster]

+1.

I support choice, but not when spammers use the service & the provider
does nothing about it. There is even one news provider (in Sweden I
think) that automatically blocks googlegroups.

--

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that William Poaster spake thusly:

>>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>>>>> I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>
><piggybacked>
> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the propagation
of articles originating from Google Groups altogether. If Google wants
to ignore IETF standards then that's its own affair, but it should not
not be allowed to infect the rest of Usenet.

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 69 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 2:53 PM, in article k0meje$l8c$1...@dont-email.me, "White Spirit"

Choice is good as long as you make the herd-supported choice. Otherwise
choice is wrong.


--
* cc was unable to post a set of data that went back to 2007.
* cc is unable to post an Excel Workbook or otherwise back his claims.
* cc failed to show any sigma depiction I called wrong that was not.
* cc could not list a single step missed in making a linear trend line.

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 3:30 PM, in article e8t2g9-...@alpha-one.wpnetwork.org,
"William Poaster" <w...@induh-vidual.net> wrote:

> Here is a facsimile from Peter K�hlmann who, on 17/8/2012 23:01, wrote:
>
>> White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/08/12 18:00, William Poaster wrote:
>>>
>>>> <piggybacked>
>>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>
>>> I have been on Usenet since long before Google Groups existed, or even
>>> DejaNews. Sometimes it makes more sense for me to post via Google Groups.
>>>
>>> I though you supported choice?
>>
>> Lets say he supports the truth. And that is in short supply with the likes
>> of you
>
> +1.
>
> I support choice, but not when spammers use the service & the provider
> does nothing about it. There is even one news provider (in Sweden I
> think) that automatically blocks googlegroups.

They are anti-choice.

This is not a good thing in my view. But I support choice.

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 3:32 PM, in article edt2g9-...@alpha-one.wpnetwork.org,

"William Poaster" <w...@induh-vidual.net> wrote:

> Here is a facsimile from RonB who, on 17/8/2012 23:10, wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:53:46 +0100, White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/08/12 18:00, William Poaster wrote:
>>>
>>>> <piggybacked> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>
>>> I have been on Usenet since long before Google Groups existed, or even
>>> DejaNews. Sometimes it makes more sense for me to post via Google
>>> Groups.
>>>
>>> I though you supported choice?
>>
>> I choose to use something other than Google Groups.
>>
>> Non-problem solved.
>
> Personally I don't see why it makes more sense for anyone to post via
> GoogleGroups, unless they're a complete noob/spammer/troll.
> (delete applicable)

Just as most people do not see it as making any sense to use Linux on the
desktop unless you are a geek or forced to. Luckily such people as you and
they cannot stop choice.

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 3:53 PM, in article dku2g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"

<use...@slated.org> wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee that William Poaster spake thusly:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>>>>>> I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>>
>> <piggybacked>
>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>
> Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the propagation
> of articles originating from Google Groups altogether. If Google wants
> to ignore IETF standards then that's its own affair, but it should not
> not be allowed to infect the rest of Usenet.

Once again: you show you are against choice.

Amazing how many times the herd (or its members) show how much they are
against choice.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Peter Köhlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

"White Spirit". Another word for "vodka".

--
Not all who own a harp are harpers.
-- Marcus Terentius Varro

[Foster]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:53:46 +0100, White Spirit wrote:

COLA Linux "advocates" support choice alright.
As long as your choice is the same as theirs and you don't expose
the warts that Linux has.

[Foster]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:32:49 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After swilling some grog, Peter K�hlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

>
>> White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/08/12 18:00, William Poaster wrote:
>>>
>>>> <piggybacked>
>>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>
>>> I have been on Usenet since long before Google Groups existed, or even
>>> DejaNews. Sometimes it makes more sense for me to post via Google Groups.
>>>
>>> I though you supported choice?
>>
>> Lets say he supports the truth. And that is in short supply with the likes
>> of you
>
> "White Spirit". Another word for "vodka".

Ahlstrom... Another word for suck up.

[-hh]

On Aug 17, 11:44 am, Hardon <hardon.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
> > On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:10:11 PM UTC+1, Hardon wrote:
>
> >> Let's start at the basics. If you can't be bothered to adhere to
> >> basic usenet netiquette by keeping your article line lengths < 80
> >> characters
>
> > I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>
> Many other people using google groups manage line wrapping just fine.
> Of course google groups also attracts arseholes in the same way AOL
> did. Why use google groups when there are free and cheap usenet
> providers?

I had that very discussion with Binky the Shark a few years before he
died.

In a nutshell, the 'cloud' aspect of GG allows me to have continuity
between multiple machines without any headaches or hassles. The best
alternative suggestion that Binky could come up with was to carry a
USB thumb drive ("dongle") with me to physically plug in between
machines so as to have my own continuously updated .trn file.

So then the question is ... has anything changed to alter this
particular use case?

Oh, one other thing that has changed: the security on one of the PCs
is such that the USB driver is disabled...no more thumb drives
allowed, and pretty much all ports are firewalled...no VPN to an
external host, etc.

Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal or
better capability and convenience.



-hh

[Tattoo Vampire]

White Spirit wrote:

> It's

You've become tiresome.

PLONK
--
Perhaps this situation requires a more Klingon response.

[tv]

[TomB]

On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:

> On 8/17/12 3:53 PM, in article dku2g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"
><use...@slated.org> wrote:
>> Verily I say unto thee that William Poaster spake thusly:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>>>>>>> I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>>>
>>> <piggybacked> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>
>> Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the
>> propagation of articles originating from Google Groups altogether.
>> If Google wants to ignore IETF standards then that's its own
>> affair, but it should not not be allowed to infect the rest of
>> Usenet.
>
> Once again: you show you are against choice.

This is not about choice; it's about respecting the requirements of
the venue. I cannot walk into a five star restaurant wearing baskets,
stretchy jeans and a sleeveless shirt, and that is just fine. The
venue expects a certain type of clothing, and it's up to me to either
respect that or to stay away.

--
You will be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize... posthumously.

[White Spirit]

On 18/08/12 01:44, Tattoo Vampire wrote:

> White Spirit wrote:

>> It's

> You've become tiresome.

> PLONK

Another false advocate has been pwned and has to run away from the truth.

[Hadron]

Hardon isn't very smart. But has great self resepect. Especially since
he learnt how to use a proper newsreader himself.

--
A certain COLA "advocate" faking his user-agent in order to pretend to be a Linux
user: User-Agent: Outlook 5.5 (WinNT 5.0), User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0
(Linux), Message-ID: <wPGdnd3NnOM...@comcast.com>

[Gregory Shearman]

What are "baskets"? Are they a new fashion statement?

--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

[William Poaster]

The "choice" is mine, to either see most of the garbage that comes from
googlegroups, or not. I decided not to. Ain't choice great! :-p

--
Blessed is the M$ end-user who expects nothing,
for ye shall not be disappointed.

[Nobody]

On 08/17/2012 09:40 AM, White Spirit wrote:
> Quality control and reliability is important. The same principle
> applies to opinions and advice and I therefore propose that in order
> to ensure that only the best opinions are expressed, a specific
> subset of acceptable views is adopted on COLA. Anyone expressing
> something that falls outside of the accepted points of view should be
> routinely pilloried and subjected to a character assassination in
> order to warn people what happens to those who share unauthorised
> opinions.
>
> This might mean that newbies are scared away and knowledgeable people
> deterred from sharing experience that could benefit people thinking
> of adopting Linux but that is surely a small price to pay for
> preserving the purity of thought and hegemony that makes COLA what it
> is to-day. Indeed, so essential is the crusade that it would be
> better to automatically suspect the newcomer of ill intent and seize
> upon the earliest opportunity to denounce them once and for all, even
> if you don't have a single shred of proof.
>
> The opinion is what counts (subject to approval) and if you are
> unable to counter an opposing view this is a clear indication that
> you are dealing with a dangerous individual who should be ignored.
> Failure to do so could result in your ultimate humiliation and this
> is the only thing worse than expressing unacceptable opinions.
>
> I trust you will heed what I say.

I was inclined to take this as satire or sarcastic humor, until I saw
you applying these principles against Homer and other posters.

[White Spirit]

On 18/08/12 12:55, Nobody wrote:

> I was inclined to take this as satire or sarcastic humor, until I saw
> you applying these principles against Homer and other posters.

What a short memory you have; you have already fallen victim to the
clique's groupthink. Now you're just trying to desperately earn brownie
points in order to win back their favour.

[Nobody]

You seem to think you're the poor man's Svengali...

[William Poaster]

He's sounding like Michael Snit Glasser.

--

[Nobody]

On 08/18/2012 08:36 AM, William Poaster wrote:
> Here is a facsimile from Nobody who, on 18/8/2012 14:02, wrote:
>
>> On 08/18/2012 07:03 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>> On 18/08/12 12:55, Nobody wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was inclined to take this as satire or sarcastic humor, until I saw
>>>> you applying these principles against Homer and other posters.
>>>
>>> What a short memory you have; you have already fallen victim to the
>>> clique's groupthink. Now you're just trying to desperately earn brownie
>>> points in order to win back their favour.
>>
>> You seem to think you're the poor man's Svengali...
>
> He's sounding like Michael Snit Glasser.

All the trolls seem to sound pretty much alike... ironic for people who
make accusations of "group think."

[William Poaster]

Now what was someone saying about a "herd"? ;-)

--
Linux vs. Windows is a no-Win situation

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 10:48 PM, in article 20120818...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"

Google Groups, while offering a fairly lousy interface, works well for many
people. It does not break anything. The big complain from the link above
is it makes it too easy to post. So what?

[Snit]

On 8/18/12 2:21 AM, in article 4e34g9-...@alpha-one.wpnetwork.org,

"William Poaster" <w...@induh-vidual.net> wrote:

> Here is a facsimile from TomB who, on 18/8/2012 06:48, wrote:
>
>> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>>> On 8/17/12 3:53 PM, in article dku2g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"
>>> <use...@slated.org> wrote:
>>>> Verily I say unto thee that William Poaster spake thusly:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:19:27 -0700, White Spirit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I suggest you address your complaint to Google Groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> <piggybacked> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>>
>>>> Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the
>>>> propagation of articles originating from Google Groups altogether.
>>>> If Google wants to ignore IETF standards then that's its own
>>>> affair, but it should not not be allowed to infect the rest of
>>>> Usenet.
>>>
>>> Once again: you show you are against choice.
>>
>> This is not about choice; it's about respecting the requirements of
>> the venue. I cannot walk into a five star restaurant wearing baskets,
>> stretchy jeans and a sleeveless shirt, and that is just fine. The
>> venue expects a certain type of clothing, and it's up to me to either
>> respect that or to stay away.
>
> The "choice" is mine, to either see most of the garbage that comes from
> googlegroups, or not. I decided not to. Ain't choice great! :-p

Right: people have the choice to block sources of information that they fear
will disagree with their own views of the world.

[Snit]

On 8/18/12 6:36 AM, in article 4ci4g9-...@alpha-one.wpnetwork.org,

"William Poaster" <w...@induh-vidual.net> wrote:

> Here is a facsimile from Nobody who, on 18/8/2012 14:02, wrote:
>
>> On 08/18/2012 07:03 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>> On 18/08/12 12:55, Nobody wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was inclined to take this as satire or sarcastic humor, until I saw
>>>> you applying these principles against Homer and other posters.
>>>
>>> What a short memory you have; you have already fallen victim to the
>>> clique's groupthink. Now you're just trying to desperately earn brownie
>>> points in order to win back their favour.
>>
>> You seem to think you're the poor man's Svengali...
>
> He's sounding like Michael Snit Glasser.

Good that you think he is sounding honest and honorable.

[TomB]

On 2012-08-18, the following emerged from the brain of Gregory
Shearman:

New if you still live in the eighties ;-)

Basketball shoes. Isn't 'baskets' a very common term then? I thought
it was.

--
You should emulate your heros, but don't carry it too far. Especially
if they are dead.

[Snit]

On 8/17/12 7:40 AM, in article
964d1d2c-afc2-44f7...@googlegroups.com, "White Spirit"

<wulfg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Quality control and reliability is important. The same principle applies to
> opinions and advice and I therefore propose that in order to ensure that only
> the best opinions are expressed, a specific subset of acceptable views is
> adopted on COLA. Anyone expressing something that falls outside of the
> accepted points of view should be routinely pilloried and subjected to a
> character assassination in order to warn people what happens to those who
> share unauthorised opinions.
>
> This might mean that newbies are scared away and knowledgeable people deterred
> from sharing experience that could benefit people thinking of adopting Linux
> but that is surely a small price to pay for preserving the purity of thought
> and hegemony that makes COLA what it is to-day. Indeed, so essential is the
> crusade that it would be better to automatically suspect the newcomer of ill
> intent and seize upon the earliest opportunity to denounce them once and for
> all, even if you don't have a single shred of proof.
>
> The opinion is what counts (subject to approval) and if you are unable to
> counter an opposing view this is a clear indication that you are dealing with
> a dangerous individual who should be ignored. Failure to do so could result
> in your ultimate humiliation and this is the only thing worse than expressing
> unacceptable opinions.
>
> I trust you will heed what I say.

Another herd member is born. :)

[TomB]

On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:

8<

> Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal or
> better capability and convenience.

I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most of
my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the appropriate
location.

For instance:

% ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
% ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
% ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc

Is all I needs to have the same config and state for slrn on all the
machines I use. Whenever I edit my config, the changes automatically
propagate to all my other machines. Works like a charm.

I use this for mutt, xmodmap, my awesome and fluxbox configs, my
Xdefaults file, my .tcshrc, my irssi config, my mplayer config...
basically for any program I use.

One exception is Firefox, for which I use its built-in 'sync'
facility.

Of course I have a trivial shell script (in my 'bin' directory, also
on Dropbox) to set this all up automagically. It's brilliant actually:
whenever I start using a new machine, my entire user environment is
configured in less than a second.

You see, in the end I'm a huge fan of consistency ;-)

--
Your ignorance cramps my conversation.

[Snit]

On 8/18/12 10:54 AM, in article 20120818...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"

Excellent... so you should see the problem inherent in the GUI of the open
source ecosystem in terms of desktop Linux.

[Homer]

Drooling fuckwit Snit wrote:
> On 8/17/12 3:53 PM, in article dku2g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"
><use...@slated.org> wrote:
>>
>> Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the
>> propagation of articles originating from Google Groups altogether.
>> If Google wants to ignore IETF standards then that's its own affair,
>> but it should not not be allowed to infect the rest of Usenet.
>
> Once again: you show you are against choice.

Idiot.

There is no "once again" about it, I've never been "against choice".
There's nothing about my suggestion that would prevent people choosing
to use Google Groups, if they actually happen to like malformed articles
and spam. I just don't see why the rest of us should be infected by it.

Do you think anti-virus and anti-spam applications are "anti-choice"
too?

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 70 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Snit]

On 8/18/12 12:40 PM, in article 4n75g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"

<use...@slated.org> wrote:

> Drooling fuckwit Snit wrote:
>> On 8/17/12 3:53 PM, in article dku2g9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"
>> <use...@slated.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally I think /real/ Usenet services should block the
>>> propagation of articles originating from Google Groups altogether.
>>> If Google wants to ignore IETF standards then that's its own affair,
>>> but it should not not be allowed to infect the rest of Usenet.
>>
>> Once again: you show you are against choice.
>
> Idiot.
>
> There is no "once again" about it, I've never been "against choice".

If you are not against choice stop speaking out against it!

> There's nothing about my suggestion that would prevent people choosing
> to use Google Groups, if they actually happen to like malformed articles
> and spam. I just don't see why the rest of us should be infected by it.

Do as you wish... but do not suggest that Usenet services should not be able
to make their own choices.

> Do you think anti-virus and anti-spam applications are "anti-choice"
> too?

There are a wide range of choices of those... but even if not that would not
imply I was against their being such choice!

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that TomB spake thusly:

> On 2012-08-18, the following emerged from the brain of Gregory
> Shearman:
>>

>> What are "baskets"? Are they a new fashion statement?
>
> New if you still live in the eighties ;-)
>
> Basketball shoes. Isn't 'baskets' a very common term then? I thought
> it was.

I thought you meant fruit baskets, like Carmen Miranda.

http://www.coolest-party-ideas.com/images/carmen-miranda-costume-hat.jpg

[Homer]

White "Supremacist" Spirit made the following suggestion:

>
> Anyone expressing something that falls outside of the accepted points
> of view should be routinely pilloried and subjected to a character
> assassination

Well if you're referring to your Neo-Nazi ethnic purity ideology, yes
definitely.

Moreover it has absolutely nothing to do with Linux.

> I trust you will heed what I say.

Good luck with that.

Although frankly I think you might have better luck engendering support
from the KKK. It'd also be a far more appropriate forum for those sorts
of "discussions".

[Gregory Shearman]

On 2012-08-18, TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What are "baskets"? Are they a new fashion statement?
>
> New if you still live in the eighties ;-)
>
> Basketball shoes. Isn't 'baskets' a very common term then? I thought
> it was.

Not where I come from. We call them "basketball shoes".

[Nobody]

I thought they're just called gym shoes. I don't think I've heard them
called either baskets or basketball shoes.

[TomB]

On 2012-08-18, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:

> On 8/18/12 10:54 AM, in article 20120818...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
><tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

8<

>> You see, in the end I'm a huge fan of consistency ;-)
>
> Excellent... so you should see the problem inherent in the GUI of
> the open source ecosystem in terms of desktop Linux.

No, because most work environments available for GNU/Linux offer a
very consistent user experience, with offending programs being
exceptions rather than the rule.

--
The holy passion of Friendship is of so sweet and steady and loyal and
enduring a nature that it will last through a whole lifetime, if not asked to
lend money.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

[Hadron]

TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>
> 8<
>
>> Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal or
>> better capability and convenience.
>
> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most of
> my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the appropriate
> location.
>
> For instance:
>
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc

Same as. Although every now and again my system breaks the symlink :
I'm yet to pin it down as to why. This is one of the main reasons to use
dropbox. I also keep in there my emacs config, my org files (emacs
org-mode) and business related info I need upto date on my mobile
machines. Of course I have dropbox on my iPhone and Sony android phone
too : though now I say it I must check the Sony.

Be referring a few friends to dropbox I have about 5.5 gig for
free. More than enough for such data as I need synced.

[TomB]

On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:

> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>>
>> 8<
>>
>>> Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal
>>> or better capability and convenience.
>>
>> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most
>> of my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the
>> appropriate location.
>>
>> For instance:
>>
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc
>
> Same as. Although every now and again my system breaks the symlink :
> I'm yet to pin it down as to why.

Never had this issue. I'm using this method on Gentoo, Debian and
Ubuntu without any glitches at all.

> This is one of the main reasons to use dropbox.

Same here. It's a wonderful way of having a uniform experience across
many machines.

> I also keep in there my emacs config, my org files (emacs org-mode)
> and business related info I need upto date on my mobile machines. Of
> course I have dropbox on my iPhone and Sony android phone too :
> though now I say it I must check the Sony.
>
> Be referring a few friends to dropbox I have about 5.5 gig for free.
> More than enough for such data as I need synced.

I just have the default 2GB and that's more than enough for my needs.
I think I'm currently using about 40% of that, so not even a Gig.

I recently discovered a similar service offered by http://www.box.com
; they offer 5GB for personal use, and also have a neat webdav
interface, so you can just mount your 'cloud drive'. Might check it
out in the near future.

I would use Canonical's Ubunu One if packages were available on Gentoo
and Debian, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening... I
wonder why.

--
Q: What's buried in Grant's tomb?
A: A corpse.

[Snit]

On 8/18/12 11:37 PM, in article 201208190...@usenet.drumscum.be,

"TomB" <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-08-18, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>> On 8/18/12 10:54 AM, in article 20120818...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 8<
>
>>> You see, in the end I'm a huge fan of consistency ;-)
>>
>> Excellent... so you should see the problem inherent in the GUI of
>> the open source ecosystem in terms of desktop Linux.
>
> No, because most work environments available for GNU/Linux offer a
> very consistent user experience, with offending programs being
> exceptions rather than the rule.

I showed with Ubuntu that looking at just the programs on the default dock
showed inconsistencies with menu placement and clipboard usage... and that
was with just moments of looking.

The idea that this is the exception to the rule is just absurd.

[-hh]

On Aug 18, 1:54 pm, TomB <tommy.bongae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>
> 8<
>
> > Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal or
> > better capability and convenience.
>
> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most of
> my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the appropriate
> location.
>
> For instance:
>
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc
>
> Is all I needs to have the same config and state for slrn on all the
> machines I use. Whenever I edit my config, the changes automatically
> propagate to all my other machines. Works like a charm.

Hmm, this might actually work, as IIRC one can create 'aliases'
without having Admin authority.

Of course, I'm not necessarily sure that using Dropbox aligns with
Enterprise IT policy...given encryption requirements for 'data at
rest', I'd suspect not.


-hh

[TomB]

On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:

> On Aug 18, 1:54 pm, TomB <tommy.bongae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>>
>> 8<
>>
>> > Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal
>> > or better capability and convenience.
>>
>> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most
>> of my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the
>> appropriate location.
>>
>> For instance:
>>
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc
>>
>> Is all I needs to have the same config and state for slrn on all
>> the machines I use. Whenever I edit my config, the changes
>> automatically propagate to all my other machines. Works like a
>> charm.
>
> Hmm, this might actually work, as IIRC one can create 'aliases'
> without having Admin authority.

Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
symlinks?

> Of course, I'm not necessarily sure that using Dropbox aligns with
> Enterprise IT policy...given encryption requirements for 'data at
> rest', I'd suspect not.

AFAIK Dropbox transfers and stores your data encrypted, so you should
be fine.

--
I got a hint of things to come when I overheard my boss lamenting,
'The books are done and we still don't have an author! I must sign
someone today!
-- Tamim Ansary, "Edutopia Magazine, Issue 2, November
2004" on the topic of school textbooks

[Snit]

On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"

<tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>> On Aug 18, 1:54�pm, TomB <tommy.bongae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>>>
>>> 8<
>>>
>>>> Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal
>>>> or better capability and convenience.
>>>
>>> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most
>>> of my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the
>>> appropriate location.
>>>
>>> For instance:
>>>
>>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
>>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
>>> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc
>>>
>>> Is all I needs to have the same config and state for slrn on all
>>> the machines I use. Whenever I edit my config, the changes
>>> automatically propagate to all my other machines. Works like a
>>> charm.
>>
>> Hmm, this might actually work, as IIRC one can create 'aliases'
>> without having Admin authority.
>
> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
> symlinks?

No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not break when you
move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.

Here is a good discussion on it:
<http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>

>> Of course, I'm not necessarily sure that using Dropbox aligns with
>> Enterprise IT policy...given encryption requirements for 'data at
>> rest', I'd suspect not.
>
> AFAIK Dropbox transfers and stores your data encrypted, so you should
> be fine.



--

[-hh]

On Aug 19, 8:12 am, TomB <tommy.bongae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 18, 1:54 pm, TomB <tommy.bongae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2012-08-17, the following emerged from the brain of -hh:
>
> >> 8<
>
> >> > Okay, have at it, and provide a specific solution that has equal
> >> > or better capability and convenience.
>
> >> I have a 'dotfiles' directory on my Dropbox account containing most
> >> of my user configs. From there I simply symlink them to the
> >> appropriate location.
>
> >> For instance:
>
> >> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrnrc /home/tommy/.slrnrc
> >> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.slrn_data /home/tommy/.slrn_data
> >> % ln -s /data/Dropbox/dotfiles/.jnewsrc /home/tommy/.jnewsrc
>
> >> Is all I needs to have the same config and state for slrn on all
> >> the machines I use. Whenever I edit my config, the changes
> >> automatically propagate to all my other machines. Works like a
> >> charm.
>
> > Hmm, this might actually work, as IIRC one can create 'aliases'
> > without having Admin authority.
>
> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
> symlinks?

And in WinOS, 'sortcuts'. I'd hope that they all work about the same
and merely differ in name. I'm not sure offhand if one has to have
Admin authority to create one, which is probably the more pragmatic
question (rather than syntax specifics).

> > Of course, I'm not necessarily sure that using Dropbox aligns with
> > Enterprise IT policy...given encryption requirements for 'data at
> > rest', I'd suspect not.
>
> AFAIK Dropbox transfers and stores your data encrypted, so you should
> be fine.

Technically "should be" and having the paperwork from the IT group
that says 'In Compliance' are two different things, unfortunately.

Sometimes things can slip through for a long time ... until they go
look at traffic on a particular port that they've not been blocking at
the firewall level, etc. Then there can be hell to pay, or worse.


-hh

[Snit]

On 8/19/12 1:51 PM, in article
166a493b-c542-4a65...@x3g2000vbn.googlegroups.com, "-hh"
<recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:

...

>>> Hmm, this might actually work, as IIRC one can create 'aliases'
>>> without having Admin authority.
>>
>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
>> symlinks?
>
> And in WinOS, 'sortcuts'. I'd hope that they all work about the same
> and merely differ in name. I'm not sure offhand if one has to have
> Admin authority to create one, which is probably the more pragmatic
> question (rather than syntax specifics).

OS X you have aliases *and* you have symlinks, though it is aliases that are
generally used (at least from the GUI side of things). One huge benefit of
an alias is that you can move the original anywhere on the same drive and
the alias does not break.
...

[White Spirit]

On Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:48:27 AM UTC+1, TomB wrote:

> This is not about choice; it's about respecting the requirements of
> the venue. I cannot walk into a five star restaurant wearing baskets,
> stretchy jeans and a sleeveless shirt, and that is just fine. The
> venue expects a certain type of clothing, and it's up to me to either
> respect that or to stay away.

I have no problem walking into a five-star restaurant wearing jeans and a Death Metal t-shirt. Perhaps they just recognise that I am a better class of person underneath my clothing?

[White Spirit]

On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:05:29 PM UTC+1, Homer wrote:

> Well if you're referring to your Neo-Nazi ethnic purity ideology, yes
> definitely.

Poor Homer - he can't argue honestly and has to resort to lying and making things up.

> Although frankly I think you might have better luck engendering support
> from the KKK. It'd also be a far more appropriate forum for those sorts
> of "discussions".

But for your neo-Marxism, I think you'd be more their choice of person - narrow-minded, a victim of groupthink, filled with anger and a desire to lash out at anyone who disagrees with them.

Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just like children. No, you'd have much more support from the KKK than I would. I certainly don't have an agenda that involves lashing out at people from a continent beset by numerous problems, most of whom don't even have their basic needs met. How arrogant and imperialist of you to criticise people as naive when very few of them even have basic education compared to that which we take for granted in the West.

Why don't you take your vile racism elsewhere, Hypocrite Homer?

[TomB]

On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:

> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
><tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

8<

>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
>> symlinks?
>
> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not break
> when you move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.

Ah, more a GUI vs. CLI thing then, where generally 'aliases' are used
from the GUI and symlinks are used from the CLI.

I like how, at least on KDE, creating a link from the GUI is exactly
the same thing as creating a symlink from the CLI. I wouldn't want to
see it any other way, although it's a nifty feature of OSX 'aliases'
that they don't break when moving the target around on the same
partition.

> Here is a good discussion on it:
><http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>

Thanks for that. The stuff about symlinks and hardlinks I obviously
already knew, but now I also know about 'aliases' on OSX :-)

--
So she went into the garden to cut a cabbage leaf to make an apple
pie; and at the same time a great she-bear, coming up the street pops
its head into the shop. "What! no soap?" So he died, and she very
imprudently married the barber; and there were present the Picninnies,
and the Grand Panjandrum himself, with the little round button at top,
and they all fell to playing the game of catch as catch can, till the
gunpowder ran out at the heels of their boots.
-- Samuel Foote

[Nobody]

On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
> On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:05:29 PM UTC+1, Homer wrote:
>

[...]

>
> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just
> like children.

That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with Africans.

Not a view born of prejudice against black people.

You're an M$ shill whose stated purpose is the character assassination
of Linux Advocates, and this post is a prime example of you carrying out
your mission.

[Nobody]

No, you're just posting bullshit again.

[White Spirit]

On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:47:02 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:

> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:

> > Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just
> > like children.

> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with Africans.

> Not a view born of prejudice against black people.

That sounds suspiciously like the words of many a racist I have heard: 'I never used to have a problem with black people - until I lived near them'.

You can squirm as much as you like but defending a racist like Homer makes you pretty much as bad IMO.

> You're an M$ shill whose stated purpose is the character assassination
> of Linux Advocates, and this post is a prime example of you carrying out
> your mission.

I'm the only full-time Linux developer on this group and if there is any character assassination going on, you can be certain that genuine Linux advocates are not the target. In fact, Hypocrite Homer, pissv and Smeg Smearman are the ones who are guilty of that.

[William Poaster]

Yup.
"White Spirit" a paraffin-derived clear, transparent liquid.
Oh, he's transparent alright. ;-)

--
Micro$oft, the company that makes spreading malware easy.

Micro$oft, the company that makes spreading malware easy.

Microsoft exec Ron Markezich was quoted saying that for every $1
companies spend on Microsoft software, they need to spend $6 getting
it to work right. -- April 2011 SanFrancisco Chronical --

"We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving
it down the throats of our users."
-- Paul Maritz, Microsoft group vice president --

What's bad about Micro$oft:
http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

[White Spirit]

You'd prefer to think that because you don't like the idea that I can afford to eat in a five star restaurant. You also don't like the idea that Linux pays my bills and allows me to eat where I choose.

Rather than being consumed by jealousy, why don't you do something to improve your own position in life rather than attacking those you resent?

[chrisv]

Tattoo Vampire wrote:

>White Spirit wrote:
>
>> It's
>
>You've become tiresome.
>
>PLONK

Oh, no. You are "running away" from White Hadron's awesome arguments,
man! It's not that he's a filthy lying asshole! It's that he doesn't
agree with us 100 percent!

[Hadron]

Nobody <inv...@invalid.com> writes:

> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:05:29 PM UTC+1, Homer wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>
>> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just
>> like children.
>
> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with
> Africans.

"actually working with them"..

LOL.

What racists SAns who actually "Live with 'them'".

You racist fool.

>
> Not a view born of prejudice against black people.

"Africans are lazy and just like children"

You dont think thats prejudice? Do you know what prejudice is? You're
stepping on very thin ice here. I would back out if I were you.

>
> You're an M$ shill whose stated purpose is the character assassination of Linux
> Advocates, and this post is a prime example of you carrying out your mission.
>

And you're a racist moron.

--
A certain COLA "advocate" faking his user-agent in order to pretend to be a Linux
user: User-Agent: Outlook 5.5 (WinNT 5.0), User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0
(Linux), Message-ID: <wPGdnd3NnOM...@comcast.com>

[Nobody]

On 08/20/2012 07:06 AM, White Spirit wrote:
> On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:48:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>
>> On 08/20/2012 03:25 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>
>>> I have no problem walking into a five-star restaurant wearing
>>> jeans and a Death Metal t-shirt. Perhaps they just recognise
>>> that I am a better class of person underneath my clothing?
>
>> No, you're just posting bullshit again.
>
> You'd prefer to think that because you don't like the idea that I can
> afford to eat in a five star restaurant.

I just know bullshit when I see it.

> You also don't like the
> idea that Linux pays my bills and allows me to eat where I choose.

Sure, Tux the Penguin follows you around with a suitcase full cash while
you rock out in five star restaurants clad in your jeans and Death Metal
t-shirt.

> Rather than being consumed by jealousy, why don't you do something to
> improve your own position in life rather than attacking those you
> resent?

I should become an M$ shill too?

Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
"freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd like to
hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?

[Nobody]

On 08/20/2012 06:56 AM, White Spirit wrote:
> On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:47:02 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>
>> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>
>>> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and
>>> just like children.
>
>> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with
>> Africans.
>
>> Not a view born of prejudice against black people.
>
> That sounds suspiciously like the words of many a racist I have
> heard: 'I never used to have a problem with black people - until I
> lived near them'.

He didn't say he had a problem with black people, he talked about the
culture of an African nation he worked in and experienced first hand.

> You can squirm as much as you like but defending a racist like Homer
> makes you pretty much as bad IMO.

So you've decided to lie about me the way you're lying about Homer.

>> You're an M$ shill whose stated purpose is the character
>> assassination of Linux Advocates, and this post is a prime example
>> of you carrying out your mission.
>
> I'm the only full-time Linux developer on this group and if there is
> any character assassination going on, you can be certain that genuine
> Linux advocates are not the target. In fact, Hypocrite Homer, pissv
> and Smeg Smearman are the ones who are guilty of that.

The M$ shill's mission continues...

[White Spirit]

On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:31:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:

> I just know bullshit when I see it.

Of course you do - the same way that you're not a paranoid loon.

> > You also don't like the
> > idea that Linux pays my bills and allows me to eat where I choose.

> Sure, Tux the Penguin follows you around with a suitcase full cash while
> you rock out in five star restaurants clad in your jeans and Death Metal
> t-shirt.

Figuratively speaking. The money in my bank account certainly comes from being a Linux dev, unlike the majority of the 'advocates' on COLA.

> > Rather than being consumed by jealousy, why don't you do something to
> > improve your own position in life rather than attacking those you
> > resent?

> I should become an M$ shill too?

Try getting a job that involves Linux. Unless that's too difficult a prospect for you?

> Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
> "freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd like to
> hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?

I have argued with them about it in the past. In the long run, however, the false advocates are the ones who are really misrepresenting Linux.

[Snit]

On 8/20/12 1:58 AM, in article 201208201...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"

<tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 8<
>
>>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
>>> symlinks?
>>
>> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not break
>> when you move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.
>
> Ah, more a GUI vs. CLI thing then, where generally 'aliases' are used
> from the GUI and symlinks are used from the CLI.

Yes... though I believe you can make aliases in the command line as well and
there are tools to make symlinks in the GUI.

> I like how, at least on KDE, creating a link from the GUI is exactly
> the same thing as creating a symlink from the CLI. I wouldn't want to
> see it any other way, although it's a nifty feature of OSX 'aliases'
> that they don't break when moving the target around on the same
> partition.

It is very cool... and something that does not exist on Linux or Windows
(though Windows sorta fakes it with shortcuts... they try to find the
original file automatically).

>> Here is a good discussion on it:
>> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>
>
> Thanks for that. The stuff about symlinks and hardlinks I obviously
> already knew, but now I also know about 'aliases' on OSX :-)

Fair enough.

[Hadron]

Nobody <inv...@invalid.com> writes:

> On 08/20/2012 06:56 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>> On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:47:02 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>>> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and
>>>> just like children.
>>
>>> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with
>>> Africans.
>>
>>> Not a view born of prejudice against black people.
>>
>> That sounds suspiciously like the words of many a racist I have
>> heard: 'I never used to have a problem with black people - until I
>> lived near them'.
>
> He didn't say he had a problem with black people, he talked about the culture of
> an African nation he worked in and experienced first hand.

He said Africans are lazy and child like.

That would come as a surprise to many.

But trust you to support that bigoted POS.

[White Spirit]

On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:42:29 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:

> He didn't say he had a problem with black people, he talked about the
> culture of an African nation he worked in and experienced first hand.

He said they are lazy, like children, naive and with a poor work ethic. That most certainly is having a problem with them.

> > You can squirm as much as you like but defending a racist like Homer
> > makes you pretty much as bad IMO.

> So you've decided to lie about me the way you're lying about Homer.

Unlike Homer, I don't need to lie about people. By his own words he is damned and your defending him makes you a party to it.

> > I'm the only full-time Linux developer on this group and if there is
> > any character assassination going on, you can be certain that genuine
> > Linux advocates are not the target. In fact, Hypocrite Homer, pissv
> > and Smeg Smearman are the ones who are guilty of that.

> The M$ shill's mission continues...

It's amusing that you accuse someone of lying and then lie yourself. You'll fit in well with the false advocate clique as soon as Lamer takes you off the troll list.

Keep going - it won't be too long now. I'll be sure to congratulate you upon the realisation of your dream.

[Nobody]

White Spirit wrote:

> On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:31:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>
>> I just know bullshit when I see it.
>
> Of course you do - the same way that you're not a paranoid loon.

Correct.

>> > You also don't like the
>> > idea that Linux pays my bills and allows me to eat where I choose.
>
>> Sure, Tux the Penguin follows you around with a suitcase full cash while
>> you rock out in five star restaurants clad in your jeans and Death Metal
>> t-shirt.
>
> Figuratively speaking. The money in my bank account certainly comes from being a Linux dev, unlike the majority of the 'advocates' on COLA.

People are supposed to believe you're a successful Linux developer who
between making lots of money and partying at five star restaurants, has
plenty of time to attack Linux advocates who don't live up to his
standards of "true advocacy?" Just ignore the fact everything you
write is an echo of what the M$ trolls have been saying for years?

>> > Rather than being consumed by jealousy, why don't you do something to
>> > improve your own position in life rather than attacking those you
>> > resent?
>
>> I should become an M$ shill too?
>
> Try getting a job that involves Linux. Unless that's too difficult a prospect for you?

There goes that echo: if you can't get a job using Linux, you're not a
"true Linux advocate." After years of telling the M$ trolls that's
bullshit, along comes you who claims to be doing what they have been
demanding, and attacking all the same people as they did.

>> Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
>> "freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd like to
>> hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?
>
> I have argued with them about it in the past.

You mean the real "White Spirit" argued with them about it in the past.

> In the long run, however, the false advocates are the ones who are
> really misrepresenting Linux.

In the long run you are one of "them," an M$ troll.

[Nobody]

White Spirit wrote:

> On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:42:29 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>
>> He didn't say he had a problem with black people, he talked about the
>> culture of an African nation he worked in and experienced first hand.
>
> He said they are lazy, like children, naive and with a poor work ethic. That most certainly is having a problem with them.

"They" and "them" refer to citizens of a certain nation, not people of a
certain race. He is not racist. You're lying about him.

I notice DFS, the racist, seems to have taken a vacation, while a new
"White Spirit" has taken his place to accuse Linux advocates of what
he's guilty of.

>> > You can squirm as much as you like but defending a racist like Homer
>> > makes you pretty much as bad IMO.
>
>> So you've decided to lie about me the way you're lying about Homer.
>
> Unlike Homer, I don't need to lie about people. By his own words he is damned and your defending him makes you a party to it.

You make yourself more of a liar with every post you make.

>> > I'm the only full-time Linux developer on this group and if there is
>> > any character assassination going on, you can be certain that genuine
>> > Linux advocates are not the target. In fact, Hypocrite Homer, pissv
>> > and Smeg Smearman are the ones who are guilty of that.
>
>> The M$ shill's mission continues...
>
> It's amusing that you accuse someone of lying and then lie yourself. You'll fit in well with the false advocate clique as soon as Lamer takes you off the troll list.

I'm not the liar here, troll.

> Keep going - it won't be too long now. I'll be sure to congratulate you upon the realisation of your dream.

The dream of a world free of Microsoft? Oh, what a happy day! Yes, be
sure to congratulate me from behind the bars of your prison cell when my
dream is realized.

[Nobody]

Not black people, and based on working with them, not on prejudice.

> That would come as a surprise to many.

Not to the people who have lived and worked there.

> But trust you to support that bigoted POS.

You have him confused with DFS.

[Nobody]

Hadron wrote:

> Nobody <inv...@invalid.com> writes:
>
>> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>> On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:05:29 PM UTC+1, Homer wrote:
>>>
>> [...]
>>>
>>> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just
>>> like children.
>>
>> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with
>> Africans.
>
> "actually working with them"..
>
> LOL.
>
> What racists SAns who actually "Live with 'them'".
>
> You racist fool.

"Them" does not refer to black people in general, just the Africans he
personally worked with.

>>
>> Not a view born of prejudice against black people.
>
> "Africans are lazy and just like children"
>
> You dont think thats prejudice?

No.

> Do you know what prejudice is?

Yes. Here's some education for you: prejudice is judging by
preconceived notions, rather than by actual experience and observation
of the thing or person being judged.

> You're
> stepping on very thin ice here. I would back out if I were you.

The ice is fine under me, but it just broke for you and left you over
your head again.

>>
>> You're an M$ shill whose stated purpose is the character assassination of Linux
>> Advocates, and this post is a prime example of you carrying out your mission.
>>
>
> And you're a racist moron.

According to yet another lying M$ shill bent on character assassination.

[TomB]

On 2012-08-20, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:

> On 8/20/12 1:58 AM, in article
> 201208201...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
><tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>>> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article
>>> 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 8<
>>
>>>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical
>>>> to symlinks?
>>>
>>> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not
>>> break when you move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.
>>
>> Ah, more a GUI vs. CLI thing then, where generally 'aliases' are
>> used from the GUI and symlinks are used from the CLI.
>
> Yes... though I believe you can make aliases in the command line as
> well

Just looked it up, and there seems to be no command line tool to make
'aliases'. Of course there's the UNIX alias command, but that's
something completely different. Perhaps not the best idea of Apple to
have a GUI command and a CLI command with the same name, but with a
totally different fuction.

> and there are tools to make symlinks in the GUI.
>
>> I like how, at least on KDE, creating a link from the GUI is
>> exactly the same thing as creating a symlink from the CLI. I
>> wouldn't want to see it any other way, although it's a nifty
>> feature of OSX 'aliases' that they don't break when moving the
>> target around on the same partition.
>
> It is very cool... and something that does not exist on Linux or
> Windows (though Windows sorta fakes it with shortcuts... they try to
> find the original file automatically).

I still prefer to have the GUI and the CLI to handle stuff in the same
way, like it's done in KDE for example.

>>> Here is a good discussion on it:
>>> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>
>>
>> Thanks for that. The stuff about symlinks and hardlinks I obviously
>> already knew, but now I also know about 'aliases' on OSX :-)
>
> Fair enough.

What I don't like at all is how an 'alias' and a symlink look exactly
the same from the GUI. I would've made them more distinct, as they are
not the same thing at all.

--
Bank error in your favor. Collect $200.

[Peter Köhlmann]

TomB wrote:

> On 2012-08-20, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>> On 8/20/12 1:58 AM, in article
>> 201208201...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>><tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>>>> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article
>>>> 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>>>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 8<
>>>
>>>>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical
>>>>> to symlinks?
>>>>
>>>> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not
>>>> break when you move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.
>>>
>>> Ah, more a GUI vs. CLI thing then, where generally 'aliases' are
>>> used from the GUI and symlinks are used from the CLI.
>>
>> Yes... though I believe you can make aliases in the command line as
>> well
>
> Just looked it up, and there seems to be no command line tool to make
> 'aliases'. Of course there's the UNIX alias command, but that's
> something completely different. Perhaps not the best idea of Apple to
> have a GUI command and a CLI command with the same name, but with a
> totally different fuction.

On the CLI you can use "ln" just like you can on linux.
It creates a link as well, then, just like it would on linux.

On the GUI it is displayed as an "alias".

But is is *not* the same as an "alias" created by the GUI, as explained
further down

A OSX alias is a different beast, it has some of the characteristics of a
unix link and some quite special ones. And actually, I couldn't care less
about the ability to not break when a target link is moved. It is a rather
useless ability, as it is only "on same partition". A symlink will not break
even when moved to a different partition, as long as it is set up with the
fully qualified filename of the originating file. And it will also not break
then when moved around, so it is actually more useful than a OSX "alias"

>> and there are tools to make symlinks in the GUI.
>>
>>> I like how, at least on KDE, creating a link from the GUI is
>>> exactly the same thing as creating a symlink from the CLI. I
>>> wouldn't want to see it any other way, although it's a nifty
>>> feature of OSX 'aliases' that they don't break when moving the
>>> target around on the same partition.
>>
>> It is very cool... and something that does not exist on Linux or
>> Windows (though Windows sorta fakes it with shortcuts... they try to
>> find the original file automatically).
>
> I still prefer to have the GUI and the CLI to handle stuff in the same
> way, like it's done in KDE for example.
>
>>>> Here is a good discussion on it:
>>>> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. The stuff about symlinks and hardlinks I obviously
>>> already knew, but now I also know about 'aliases' on OSX :-)
>>
>> Fair enough.
>
> What I don't like at all is how an 'alias' and a symlink look exactly
> the same from the GUI. I would've made them more distinct, as they are
> not the same thing at all.
>

One of the worst blunders apple has made with OSX

[White Spirit]

On 20/08/12 18:55, Nobody wrote:

> White Spirit wrote:

>> On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:31:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:

>>> I just know bullshit when I see it.

>> Of course you do - the same way that you're not a paranoid loon.

> Correct.

*guffaw*

> People are supposed to believe you're a successful Linux developer who
> between making lots of money and partying at five star restaurants, has
> plenty of time to attack Linux advocates who don't live up to his
> standards of "true advocacy?" Just ignore the fact everything you
> write is an echo of what the M$ trolls have been saying for years?

People are supposed to continue to amuse me with their inane, paranoid
babble - and they are doing just that.

>>> I should become an M$ shill too?

>> Try getting a job that involves Linux. Unless that's too difficult a prospect for you?

> There goes that echo: if you can't get a job using Linux, you're not a
> "true Linux advocate." After years of telling the M$ trolls that's
> bullshit, along comes you who claims to be doing what they have been
> demanding, and attacking all the same people as they did.

They attacked me; I'm cleaning up.

>>> Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
>>> "freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd like to
>>> hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?

>> I have argued with them about it in the past.

> You mean the real "White Spirit" argued with them about it in the past.

All you had to do was perform a search using the e-mail addresses I use.
Thirty seconds are all it would have taken to prevent you from making
an utter fool of yourself.

It's getting to be a bit of a habit.

>> In the long run, however, the false advocates are the ones who are
>> really misrepresenting Linux.

> In the long run you are one of "them," an M$ troll.

I don't use their products, I don't endorse their products and I don't
like their products. That automatically places me above most of the
so-called advocates.

[White Spirit]

On 20/08/12 19:04, Nobody wrote:

> White Spirit wrote:

>> He said they are lazy, like children, naive and with a poor work
>> ethic. That most certainly is having a problem with them.

> "They" and "them" refer to citizens of a certain nation, not people
> of a certain race. He is not racist. You're lying about him.

Even in the event that he referred to a certain nation, racism can be
about nationality, not just race.

> I notice DFS, the racist, seems to have taken a vacation, while a
> new "White Spirit" has taken his place to accuse Linux advocates of
> what he's guilty of.

Your paranoia is hilarious, but I would have it seen to by a
professional if I were you.

>> Unlike Homer, I don't need to lie about people. By his own words
>> he is damned and your defending him makes you a party to it.

> You make yourself more of a liar with every post you make.

By your dishonest definition, perhaps, but it's not worth a damn.

> I'm not the liar here, troll.

You are both. All your cross-posts to comp.sys.mac.advocacy show you up
for the hypocrite you are.

>> Keep going - it won't be too long now. I'll be sure to
>> congratulate you upon the realisation of your dream.

> The dream of a world free of Microsoft? Oh, what a happy day! Yes,
> be sure to congratulate me from behind the bars of your prison cell
> when my dream is realized.

And what will be my crime in your puerile fantasy?

[White Spirit]

On 20/08/12 19:07, Nobody wrote:

>> He said Africans are lazy and child like.

> Not black people, and based on working with them, not on prejudice.

He made a gross generalisation about Africans. That is incredibly
racist, no matter which way you try to spin it.

[Snit]

On 8/20/12 2:03 PM, in article k0u8qg$7ru$1...@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-k...@t-online.de> wrote:

...

>> Just looked it up, and there seems to be no command line tool to make
>> 'aliases'. Of course there's the UNIX alias command, but that's
>> something completely different. Perhaps not the best idea of Apple to
>> have a GUI command and a CLI command with the same name, but with a
>> totally different fuction.
>
> On the CLI you can use "ln" just like you can on linux.
> It creates a link as well, then, just like it would on linux.
>
> On the GUI it is displayed as an "alias".

Well, it uses the same icon. I believe the Get Info screen makes the
distinction, but I could be wrong on that.

> But is is *not* the same as an "alias" created by the GUI, as explained
> further down
>
> A OSX alias is a different beast, it has some of the characteristics of a
> unix link and some quite special ones. And actually, I couldn't care less
> about the ability to not break when a target link is moved.

It is a very good feature... but you will say you cannot see the benefit
because Linux lacks this feature.

> It is a rather useless ability, as it is only "on same partition".

You cannot "move" a file to a different partition... you copy it there and
delete it from the original one. Sure, some OSs / UIs call this "copying",
but it is not.

> A symlink will not break even when moved to a different partition, as long as
> it is set up with the fully qualified filename of the originating file.

Neither a symlink nor an alias will break if you move or copy them... the
question is about moving the original file. In that case the symlink breaks
- but the alias does not.

> And it will also not break then when moved around, so it is actually more
> useful than a OSX "alias"

When the original is moved then the symlink breaks. This is not true of an
alias. You got confused with that and the symlink and alias themselves -
you can move those around and even copy them and they work just fine.

But thanks for showing off your ignorance on this issue... just another
example of you not being technically competent.

...

>>> Fair enough.
>>
>> What I don't like at all is how an 'alias' and a symlink look exactly
>> the same from the GUI. I would've made them more distinct, as they are
>> not the same thing at all.
>
> One of the worst blunders apple has made with OSX

Given that the general use will likely *never* create a symlink and has no
need to it really is all but a non-issue... but I can see where it would
make sense to have a different arrow to alert users that the "alias" will
break if you move the original or target.

[Nobody]

"Africans" is not a racial term.

[Nobody]

On 08/20/2012 04:21 PM, White Spirit wrote:
> On 20/08/12 19:04, Nobody wrote:
>
>> White Spirit wrote:
>
>>> He said they are lazy, like children, naive and with a poor work
>>> ethic. That most certainly is having a problem with them.
>
>> "They" and "them" refer to citizens of a certain nation, not people
>> of a certain race. He is not racist. You're lying about him.
>
> Even in the event that he referred to a certain nation, racism can be
> about nationality, not just race.

Nationality is not the same as a race.

>> I notice DFS, the racist, seems to have taken a vacation, while a
>> new "White Spirit" has taken his place to accuse Linux advocates of
>> what he's guilty of.
>
> Your paranoia is hilarious, but I would have it seen to by a
> professional if I were you.

Sure thing DFS, or are you flatfish?

>>> Unlike Homer, I don't need to lie about people. By his own words
>>> he is damned and your defending him makes you a party to it.
>
>> You make yourself more of a liar with every post you make.
>
> By your dishonest definition, perhaps, but it's not worth a damn.

You just compounded your lies.

>> I'm not the liar here, troll.
>
> You are both. All your cross-posts to comp.sys.mac.advocacy show you up
> for the hypocrite you are.

A non sequitur that's also an ad hominem. You're quite the talented troll.

>>> Keep going - it won't be too long now. I'll be sure to
>>> congratulate you upon the realisation of your dream.
>
>> The dream of a world free of Microsoft? Oh, what a happy day! Yes,
>> be sure to congratulate me from behind the bars of your prison cell
>> when my dream is realized.
>
> And what will be my crime in your puerile fantasy?

Wasting oxygen.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that Snit spake thusly:

> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be,
> "TomB" <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
>> symlinks?
>
> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not break
> when you move files.

That would make it a "hard link", except it seems OSX "aliases" can in
fact be broken, and therefore they're actually "soft links".

> Here is a good discussion on it:
> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>

[quote]
If you delete the file to which an alias is linked or move or modify the
file so that the alias can no longer locate it, you will get an error
message when you double-click the alias file. This message will state,
"The alias {name of file} could not be opened because the original item
could not be found." This situation is called a broken alias.

At this point, you can click OK (thereby ignoring the issue for the
moment), Delete Alias (with the obvious result), or Fix Alias. This last
option opens a window similar to what appears when you click Select New
Original in the Show Info window. From here, you can navigate via a
directory window to the desired destination file and select it as the
destination for the alias.

...

Aliases are linked to the file or folder to which they point. If you
move the original file to a new location, the alias is able to keep
track of this situation and maintain the link. When you double-click the
alias, the original file still opens.
[/quote]

IOW the OS (via FSEvents - formerly a private API) is tracking file
operations and updating soft links (or "aliases", as Apple calls them)
as needed, but if you move or delete the source file using the CLI or
any app that doesn't use FSEvents, then the "link" is broken, because
that "link" isn't really a link at all, it's an entry in a secondary
application's log file, which in this case will not have been updated.
And if fseventsd /itself/ stops functioning, for whatever reason, all
subsequent filesystem events will remain unrecorded, thus breaking all
subsequent "aliases" (assuming OSX will then allow any "aliases" to be
created at all).

Meanwhile, this is how a proper hard link works on a real filesystem:

~ % mkdir foo1 foo2
~ % touch foo1/bar
~ % ln foo1/bar foo2/bar
~ % echo "Hello World" >>foo1/bar
~ % cat foo2/bar
Hello World
~ % mv foo1/bar foo1/snafu
~ % echo "Hello again" >>foo1/snafu
~ % cat foo2/bar
Hello World
Hello again

No "FSEvents daemon" required. The filesystem itself keeps track of the
link.

In fact I can now completely delete the original, and the linked file
remains intact, since both the original and the linked file were just
pointers to the same block of data on the filesystem.

~ % rm -f foo1/snafu
~ % cat foo2/bar
Hello World
Hello again

Only once the last remaining pointer to that block of data has been
unlinked will the file be "deleted", although the data itself remains
(unreferenced), and can be recovered if you know its inode number (using
debugfs and dd), unless that block is explicitly wiped or overwritten.

But OSX's support for hard links is little more than a retrofitted
kludge:

[quote]
NSDocumentController controls all documents in OS X (together with
NSUserDefaults). When running on HFS+, it creates records which rely on
HFS+ catalog file information.

...

It is for this reason that a Cocoa document can know immediately when a
file name has changed: the _NSAlias lets NSDocumentController
'backtrack'.

But this system also assumes there is but one file name for physical
storage on disk. If the file becomes multi-linked, the old file record
is moved to \0\0\0\0HFS+ Private Data and a new file record (of a new
type) is written to its own directory to replace it.

And NSDocumentController is thrown for a loop.
[/quote]

http://rixstep.com/2/20040621,00.shtml

Apparently this has been improved somewhat over the years, but it still
requires an "FSEvents daemon" to monitor filesystem changes:

[quote]
So, no, /dev/fsevents is not a good candidate for a public API. But the
demand for efficient, asynchronous file system notifications remains.
What to do? Enter Leopard's FSEvents framework. It takes a pragmatic
approach to providing these features.

This is a theme that recurs throughout Leopard's new technologies. Given
a thorny technical problem, FSEvents does not attempt to be all things
to all people. Instead, it shrewdly narrows its focus, concentrating on
the possible and the probable. FSEvents provides an "80 percent
solution" with (near) 100 percent reliability, rather than attempting to
be an all-encompassing, "perfect" solution.

FSEvents design and implementation

It seems to me that the key breakthrough in the design of FSEvents was
arrived at by considering yet another weakness of /dev/fsevents. The
private /dev/fsevents API doles out notifications in real time to all
interested clients. This appears to be the best feature of the API, but
it's actually quite a burden for clients. Any events that occur when a
client program is not running will never be seen by that client. This is
why the Spotlight indexing process is launched when the system boots and
remains running as long as the computer is on. It must do this in order
to catch and process all file system events.

...

So how does this realization lead to a design for FSEvents? The answer
is that solving the problem of the constantly running client also makes
many other problems disappear. Here's how FSEvents does it.

The /dev/fsevents API can only support a few extremely well-behaved
clients. Spotlight is one. In Leopard, FSEvents is another. The FSEvents
framework relies on a single, constantly running daemon process called
fseventsd that reads from /dev/fsevents and writes the events to log
files on disk (stored in a .fseventsd directory at the root of the
volume the events are for). That's it. That's the super-high-tech
solution: just write the events to a log file. Boring, pragmatic, but
quite effective.

Programs wishing to use the FSEvents API do not need to be running
constantly. They can be launched at any time and can ask, "Okay, what's
changed since the last time I was running?" As long as they know where
they left off in the log file, the FSEvents framework can (effectively)
"play back" every event that's occurred since then and answer the
question accurately.

Pragmatic? Isn't it also fair to call this solution "fraught with its
own intractable problems"? How big are these log files? Are they going
to fill my disk if I constantly create, modify, and delete files? Will
the log files be trimmed? What if a process doesn't run for a year and
then wants to know what's changed since then?

Pragmatism means compromise. Yes, if fseventsd drank from the
/dev/fsevents fire hose and wrote every single event to disk, you'd run
out of disk space pretty quickly. To avoid this, fseventsd only writes
out changes at the much less granular directory level. The FSEvents
framework, in turn, can only tell its clients, "Something has changed in
directory /foo/bar/baz."
[/quote]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5/7/

Good grief, what a mess. No wonder Torvalds described HFS+ as "complete
and utter crap".

[quote]
Q. Do you have a favourite between Leopard and Vista?

A. I don't think they're equally flawed. I think Leopard is a much
better system. On the other hand, (I've found) OS X in some ways is
actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is
complete and utter crap, which is scary.
[/quote]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/q-and-a-with-linus-torvalds/2008/02/05/1202090403120.html

If Apple ever finally updates its ancient filesystem to ZSF then it
might actually support hard links properly. Apparently a third-party
solution called "ZEVO" is available now, but of course you have to pay
for it.

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120218_1-ZFS-for-OSX.html

Why Apple hasn't integrated ZFS natively is a mystery. After all, the
filesystem itself is free (cost), and is even licensed under an
ostensibly Open Sauce license (Sun's anti-GPL CDDL).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Development_and_Distribution_License#GPL_incompatibility

Frankly I don't see why Apple can't just use ext4 or btrfs.

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 72 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Nobody]

On 08/20/2012 04:18 PM, White Spirit wrote:
> On 20/08/12 18:55, Nobody wrote:
>
>> White Spirit wrote:
>
>>> On Monday, August 20, 2012 2:31:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>
>>>> I just know bullshit when I see it.
>
>>> Of course you do - the same way that you're not a paranoid loon.
>
>> Correct.
>
> *guffaw*

Good you can laugh at yourself.

>> People are supposed to believe you're a successful Linux developer who
>> between making lots of money and partying at five star restaurants, has
>> plenty of time to attack Linux advocates who don't live up to his
>> standards of "true advocacy?" Just ignore the fact everything you
>> write is an echo of what the M$ trolls have been saying for years?
>
> People are supposed to continue to amuse me with their inane, paranoid
> babble - and they are doing just that.

You just self-identified yourself as an M$ troll by expressing the same
POV as they have.

>>>> I should become an M$ shill too?
>
>>> Try getting a job that involves Linux. Unless that's too difficult a
>>> prospect for you?
>
>> There goes that echo: if you can't get a job using Linux, you're not a
>> "true Linux advocate." After years of telling the M$ trolls that's
>> bullshit, along comes you who claims to be doing what they have been
>> demanding, and attacking all the same people as they did.
>
> They attacked me; I'm cleaning up.

That's why you're echoing M$ troll bullshit? LOL

>>>> Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
>>>> "freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd
>>>> like to
>>>> hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?
>
>>> I have argued with them about it in the past.
>
>> You mean the real "White Spirit" argued with them about it in the past.
>
> All you had to do was perform a search using the e-mail addresses I use.
> Thirty seconds are all it would have taken to prevent you from making
> an utter fool of yourself.

As if anybody couldn't put any email address into the from line in their
browser?

> It's getting to be a bit of a habit.

For you.

>>> In the long run, however, the false advocates are the ones who are
>>> really misrepresenting Linux.
>
>> In the long run you are one of "them," an M$ troll.
>
> I don't use their products, I don't endorse their products and I don't
> like their products. That automatically places me above most of the
> so-called advocates.

Who do you think you're fooling?

[Snit]

On 8/20/12 11:19 AM, in article 201208202...@usenet.drumscum.be,

"TomB" <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-08-20, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>> On 8/20/12 1:58 AM, in article
>> 201208201...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2012-08-19, the following emerged from the brain of Snit:
>>>> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article
>>>> 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
>>>> <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 8<
>>>
>>>>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical
>>>>> to symlinks?
>>>>
>>>> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not
>>>> break when you move files. You can *also* make symlinks in OS X.
>>>
>>> Ah, more a GUI vs. CLI thing then, where generally 'aliases' are
>>> used from the GUI and symlinks are used from the CLI.
>>
>> Yes... though I believe you can make aliases in the command line as
>> well
>
> Just looked it up, and there seems to be no command line tool to make
> 'aliases'.

With a quick look there is... but it is kludgy... something like:

$ osascript -e 'tell application "Finder" to make alias file to POSIX file
"/file/to/make/link/from" at POSIX file "/folder/where/to/make/link"'

So it *can* be done... but, no, there does not seem to be a specific command
to do it.

> Of course there's the UNIX alias command, but that's something completely
> different.

Yes. Would have given me a good laugh had you not known that. :)

> Perhaps not the best idea of Apple to have a GUI command and a CLI
> command with the same name, but with a totally different fuction.

This comes from the dual background - the Classic Mac OS and the BSD / Unix
background... but I can see where there could be confusion for those few
people who use the command line and are not used to the concept of "aliases"
in the Mac GUI. Fair enough.

>> and there are tools to make symlinks in the GUI.
>>
>>> I like how, at least on KDE, creating a link from the GUI is
>>> exactly the same thing as creating a symlink from the CLI. I
>>> wouldn't want to see it any other way, although it's a nifty
>>> feature of OSX 'aliases' that they don't break when moving the
>>> target around on the same partition.
>>
>> It is very cool... and something that does not exist on Linux or
>> Windows (though Windows sorta fakes it with shortcuts... they try to
>> find the original file automatically).
>
> I still prefer to have the GUI and the CLI to handle stuff in the same
> way, like it's done in KDE for example.

I can see the benefit of such consistency, but I would hate for OS X to lose
the functionality of allowing you to move the original or target. Would
make aliases *much* less useful. Actually another good example of an OS X
productivity tool which Linux lacks (and Windows tries to fake with limited
success...).

I use this often: I download a program and play with it while I still have
it on my desktop (or a folder on my desktop). If I like the program I make
an alias and move it to my "Fave Apps" folder (or a subfolder in it) and
then move the program to my Applications folder. This is a very common
thing for me... and to break that functionality by using symlinks would be a
very bad thing.

But now time for something OS X does real wonky... I cannot, quickly, figure
out the pattern: if I make a symlink and then rename the original (or
target) then *sometimes* it seems to keep the link and sometimes it does
not. Now *that* is stupid. Here is a video showing it not working at first
and then working when re-created:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/osx-symlink-oddity.mov>

I would have to play more... maybe changing the content alters the way this
behaves? That makes *no* sense. So symlinks on the OS X GUI, from what I
can tell, are inconsistent and broken. Completely absurd. No argument
here.

>>>> Here is a good discussion on it:
>>>> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. The stuff about symlinks and hardlinks I obviously
>>> already knew, but now I also know about 'aliases' on OSX :-)
>>
>> Fair enough.
>
> What I don't like at all is how an 'alias' and a symlink look exactly
> the same from the GUI. I would've made them more distinct, as they are
> not the same thing at all.

I also checked and a symlink is listed as an "alias" in the Get Info box...
so I was wrong about that when I said you could at least tell the difference
that way. That is another thing wrong with how the OS X GUI handles
symlinks.

Still, for the general OS X user, they will *never* create or use
symlinks... so this is not a *huge* deal, but it is something the OS X GUI
handles poorly. If they worked just like aliases it would not be so bad -
but, as I show in the video, they *sometimes* break when you rename the
original... something I have *never* seen with aliases.

I am going to guess that the idea is to have them work exactly as aliases...
and thus there would be no real need for a distinction... but they do *not*
given how they sometimes break. And just sometimes. Absurd.

[William Poaster]

Here is a facsimile from Nobody who, on 20/8/2012 14:31, wrote:

> On 08/20/2012 07:06 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>> On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:48:21 PM UTC+1, Nobody wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/20/2012 03:25 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>>> I have no problem walking into a five-star restaurant wearing
>>>> jeans and a Death Metal t-shirt. Perhaps they just recognise
>>>> that I am a better class of person underneath my clothing?
>>
>>> No, you're just posting bullshit again.
>>
>> You'd prefer to think that because you don't like the idea that I can
>> afford to eat in a five star restaurant.
>
> I just know bullshit when I see it.

Indeed. In the five star restaurants I've been in, he wouldn't get past
the Maitre d' dressed in jeans & t-shirt.

>> You also don't like the
>> idea that Linux pays my bills and allows me to eat where I choose.
>
> Sure, Tux the Penguin follows you around with a suitcase full cash while
> you rock out in five star restaurants clad in your jeans and Death Metal
> t-shirt.

LOL

>> Rather than being consumed by jealousy, why don't you do something to
>> improve your own position in life rather than attacking those you
>> resent?
>
> I should become an M$ shill too?
>
> Where were you when the trolls were calling Linux "slopware" used by
> "freetards" who don't pay for anything? Don't you think they'd like to
> hear about your lavish Linux supported lifestyle?
>

--
As they say at Microsoft - 'What do you want to reinstall today ?'.

[William Poaster]

Here is a facsimile from Nobody who, on 20/8/2012 22:37, wrote:

> On 08/20/2012 04:21 PM, White Spirit wrote:
>> On 20/08/12 19:04, Nobody wrote:
>>
>>> White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>>> He said they are lazy, like children, naive and with a poor work
>>>> ethic. That most certainly is having a problem with them.
>>
>>> "They" and "them" refer to citizens of a certain nation, not people
>>> of a certain race. He is not racist. You're lying about him.
>>
>> Even in the event that he referred to a certain nation, racism can be
>> about nationality, not just race.
>
> Nationality is not the same as a race.
>
>>> I notice DFS, the racist, seems to have taken a vacation, while a
>>> new "White Spirit" has taken his place to accuse Linux advocates of
>>> what he's guilty of.
>>
>> Your paranoia is hilarious, but I would have it seen to by a
>> professional if I were you.
>
> Sure thing DFS, or are you flatfish?

Hadron.

>>>> Unlike Homer, I don't need to lie about people. By his own words
>>>> he is damned and your defending him makes you a party to it.
>>
>>> You make yourself more of a liar with every post you make.
>>
>> By your dishonest definition, perhaps, but it's not worth a damn.
>
> You just compounded your lies.
>
>>> I'm not the liar here, troll.
>>
>> You are both. All your cross-posts to comp.sys.mac.advocacy show you up
>> for the hypocrite you are.
>
> A non sequitur that's also an ad hominem. You're quite the talented troll.
>
>>>> Keep going - it won't be too long now. I'll be sure to
>>>> congratulate you upon the realisation of your dream.
>>
>>> The dream of a world free of Microsoft? Oh, what a happy day! Yes,
>>> be sure to congratulate me from behind the bars of your prison cell
>>> when my dream is realized.
>>
>> And what will be my crime in your puerile fantasy?
>
> Wasting oxygen.

--
M$ Windows: from the guys who brought you EDLIN

[Snit]

On 8/20/12 2:30 PM, in article 8tmag9-...@sky.matrix, "Homer"

<use...@slated.org> wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee that Snit spake thusly:
>> On 8/19/12 5:12 AM, in article 201208191...@usenet.drumscum.be,
>> "TomB" <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Aliases are an OSX thing, right? Are they functionally identical to
>>> symlinks?
>>
>> No, they are more like Windows "shortcuts" though they do not break
>> when you move files.
>
> That would make it a "hard link", except it seems OSX "aliases" can in
> fact be broken, and therefore they're actually "soft links".

How do you think aliases can be broken?

>> Here is a good discussion on it:
>> <http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30243&seqNum=6>
>
> [quote]
> If you delete the file to which an alias is linked or move or modify the
> file so that the alias can no longer locate it, you will get an error
> message when you double-click the alias file. This message will state,
> "The alias {name of file} could not be opened because the original item
> could not be found." This situation is called a broken alias.

Right... if the original file is deleted then the alias will not point to
it. Of course not!

You can then create a new file with the same name and put it in the same
place and the alias will work. And then you can move and rename this *new*
file and the alias will still work.

Of course, it is best to not delete the original "target" and try to "trick"
the system into pointing to a new "original"... but so be it, it does work.

> At this point, you can click OK (thereby ignoring the issue for the
> moment), Delete Alias (with the obvious result), or Fix Alias. This last
> option opens a window similar to what appears when you click Select New
> Original in the Show Info window. From here, you can navigate via a
> directory window to the desired destination file and select it as the
> destination for the alias.

Yes, if you want to use the alias to work with a different "target". I will
say the wording of selecting a "new Original" is a bit awkward. :)

> ...
>
>
> Aliases are linked to the file or folder to which they point. If you
> move the original file to a new location, the alias is able to keep
> track of this situation and maintain the link. When you double-click the
> alias, the original file still opens.
> [/quote]
>
> IOW the OS (via FSEvents - formerly a private API) is tracking file
> operations and updating soft links (or "aliases", as Apple calls them)
> as needed,

I do not believe so - I think it tracks it based on features of the file
system.

> but if you move or delete the source file using the CLI or any app that
> doesn't use FSEvents, then the "link" is broken, because that "link" isn't
> really a link at all, it's an entry in a secondary application's log file,
> which in this case will not have been updated.

If you delete the file it pointed to of course it breaks! What would you
expect? Want it to create a new file for you with... um... random data?

It is not a hard link. It is an alias... working much like a symlink but
does not break if you move the target.

> And if fseventsd /itself/ stops functioning, for whatever reason, all
> subsequent filesystem events will remain unrecorded, thus breaking all
> subsequent "aliases" (assuming OSX will then allow any "aliases" to be created
> at all).

I would like to see an example of this.

> Meanwhile, this is how a proper hard link works on a real filesystem:

Hard links and symlinks and aliases are not the same thing. An alias is far
more like a symlink than a hard link.

OS X does use hardlinks heavily with its Time Machine backup system, but
other than that there is no GUI method of working with hard links.

> ~ % mkdir foo1 foo2
> ~ % touch foo1/bar
> ~ % ln foo1/bar foo2/bar
> ~ % echo "Hello World" >>foo1/bar
> ~ % cat foo2/bar
> Hello World
> ~ % mv foo1/bar foo1/snafu
> ~ % echo "Hello again" >>foo1/snafu
> ~ % cat foo2/bar
> Hello World
> Hello again
>
> No "FSEvents daemon" required. The filesystem itself keeps track of the
> link.

Can you show that the FSEvents daemon is needed for aliases?

...

> If Apple ever finally updates its ancient filesystem to ZSF then it
> might actually support hard links properly.

Hard links work just fine and are used by Time Machine. Still, I would like
to see Apple move to a more modern file system. If nothing else, ZFS allows
for block level backing up and not just file level. This is a *big* deal
when using Time Machine or whatever to back up large files (such as VM
"drive" files).

> Apparently a third-party solution called "ZEVO" is available now, but of
> course you have to pay for it.
>
> http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120218_1-ZFS-for-OSX.html
>
> Why Apple hasn't integrated ZFS natively is a mystery. After all, the
> filesystem itself is free (cost), and is even licensed under an
> ostensibly Open Sauce license (Sun's anti-GPL CDDL).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Development_and_Distribution_License#GPL_i
> ncompatibility
>
> Frankly I don't see why Apple can't just use ext4 or btrfs.

I do not know if they support all the things HFS+ does. Do you?

[Hadron]

Nobody <inv...@invalid.com> writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>
>> Nobody <inv...@invalid.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 08/20/2012 03:38 AM, White Spirit wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:05:29 PM UTC+1, Homer wrote:
>>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Then there is the fact that you think that Africans are lazy and just
>>>> like children.
>>>
>>> That's a fact he learned from two years of actually working with
>>> Africans.
>>
>> "actually working with them"..
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> What racists SAns who actually "Live with 'them'".
>>
>> You racist fool.
>
> "Them" does not refer to black people in general, just the Africans he
> personally worked with.

Homer referred to African people as lazy and childlike.

Spin it as you like.

You're a gobshite.

[Hadron]

You're the one who posts from a Windows PC more often than not.

You're an idiot.


--
A certain COLA "advocate" faking his user-agent in order to pretend to be a Linux
user: User-Agent: Outlook 5.5 (WinNT 5.0), User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0
(Linux), Message-ID: <wPGdnd3NnOM...@comcast.com>

[White Spirit]

On 20/08/12 22:37, Nobody wrote:

> On 08/20/2012 04:21 PM, White Spirit wrote:

>> Even in the event that he referred to a certain nation, racism can be
>> about nationality, not just race.

> Nationality is not the same as a race.

I didn't say that it was.

>>> You make yourself more of a liar with every post you make.

>> By your dishonest definition, perhaps, but it's not worth a damn.

> You just compounded your lies.

So you keep saying. Maybe if you repeat it often enough, you'll start
to believe it.

>>> I'm not the liar here, troll.

>> You are both. All your cross-posts to comp.sys.mac.advocacy show you up
>> for the hypocrite you are.

> A non sequitur that's also an ad hominem. You're quite the talented
> troll.

You're quite the hypocrite, Mr Let's Cross-post to the Mac Newsgroup.

>> And what will be my crime in your puerile fantasy?

> Wasting oxygen.

Good luck with that prosecution.