Will you look at that! This heap has got a flat!
billwg
of The Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in July, a Web site monitoring
company announced today.
Last month, Internet Explorer, by far the most used browser, regained lost
ground and pushed back the upstart Firefox for the first time since Version
1.0 of the open-source browser debuted late last year, according to
NetApplications.com, an Aliso Viejo, Calif., maker of applications for
monitoring and measuring Web site usage. "
B Gruff
Well, that's great news, baa-lamb.
Game over, you've won. Right?
Now all the world will use I.E.6, and be a better, safer place, right?
- and best of all, of course, your job is done, and you can go!
......'bye ... been nice knowing you......
(..mind the door...)
Bill
billwg
"B Gruff" <bbg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3m4rn2F...@individual.net...
Come on now, goat, be a little more gracious! People here have been hanging
crepe for Mr. Softee ever since Firefox came out and a little turnabout is
fair play, eh?
billwg
DFS
I'll stick with Firefox, which I've used for probably 9 months now. It's
slower to load up than IE, but it renders web pages about as fast (maybe
faster), is more stable, and has nice extensions and features like Zoom
Image, Web Developer Toolbar, and tabbed browsing. Heck, even the way they
let you search a page (with the bar at the bottom that does progressive
matching and lets you cycle through) is much better. And it's easier to
maintain privacy. And to find and make settings.
It's a good app. I recently donated $20.00 to the Mozilla Foundation.
I may even be switching to Thunderbird, and that's after 8 or so years of
using Outlook Express.
B Gruff
Will all you baskets PLEASE stop forging DFS?
It's got past a joke now - nobody but nobody is going to believe that HE
wrote THIS.
Quit it - please.
Bill
billwg
"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
news:qFdLe.2849$rc6....@fe03.lga...
:
And see how easy it is to do that? How can they say Microsoft has a
monopoly? LOL!!!
Rick
Idiot.
> LOL!!!
Look, a braying ass.
--
Rick
amosf (Tim Fairchild)
Seems to be a lot of DFS's for some reason. But they all sound a lot
alike... Okay, so this one is a bit different.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
billwg
"Rick" <no...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.08.13....@nomail.com...
::
: Idiot.
:
Lowly educated curmudgeon.
LOL!!!
DFS
It's true. Rather than buy the CDs (that are outdated every few months
anyway), I donated $20.00. I almost always pay for software I use
regularly, even if it's shareware or open source. I use Firefox every day.
I've even thought about how much and who to send donations to if I ever
start using Linux more regularly. It probably would be some to the distro
vendor, some to KDE directly, and some to individual programs I use a lot.
MS needs competition, and the competition needs money to stay competitive.
I paid the already rich MS $45 for SQL Server dev edition, and bought two
Oracle Trial Packs at $50 each from the already rich Oracle Corp. Why
shouldn't I send PostgreSQL or MySQL $25 or $50 if I like and use their
product? Especially if it's something I can use to make even more money.
On the other hand, OpenOffice is a LONG way from earning my contribution.
More cola nuts would do well to donate and purchase.
Dear DFS,
This email confirms that you have paid Mozilla Foundation $20.00 USD using
PayPal. This credit card transaction will appear on your bill as "PAYPAL
*MOZILLAFOUN".
-----------------------------------
Payment Details
-----------------------------------
Transaction ID: 7SD577584DC7522860G
Total: $20.00 USD
Item/Product Name: Support Mozilla
Item/Product Number: 001
Buyer: DFS
-----------------------------------
Business Information
-----------------------------------
Business: Mozilla Foundation
Contact E-Mail: don...@mozilla.org
-----------------------------------
Receipt Number:
-----------------------------------
3449-1131-4951-0413
7
Totally unemployable cretin.
Particularly as you spend all your time donating it free of charge
to microshat to oppose free software. And you still can't work
out they get richer while you get poorer.
7
> "Microsoft Corp.'s Internet Explorer halted
Which version of GNU/Linux does this product run in?
And which version of GPL is it released under?
billwg
"7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:isvLe.88447$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Oh, I still work, lucky, but I have made my millions from various Windows
endeavors and really need not do so much work that I have to forego twisting
your tails! LOL!!! But then I do have the degrees to match my aspirations
and you sillies continue to argue over newsreaders and such and try to make
each other and yourselves believe that common sense and experience are more
important than education! Also, my time is hardly "free of charge".
billwg
Why none of the above, lucky! Surely you knew that! It is the secret of
Windows' success.
Tattoo Vampire
> I have made my millions
LOL
7
Well it must be crap then because its not GNU/Linux compatible and
doesn't have a GPL license and is therefore more
prone to a lot of viri infections.
And if you are switching from internet exploder to windope in the middle
of a coversation, you would be wrong there too, as the world's most
successful OS is not windopes. Surely you knew that!
Its another open source OS with billions of installed copies.
Open source is the secret of success.
7
OOOOooooOooOOOOOooooOOooOOOoooooooh....!
What's this?
You are paid to be an astroturfer for microshaft?
Snit
mOxLe.88489$G8.3...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk on 8/13/05 7:14 PM:
> billwg wrote:
>
>>
>> "7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:TCvLe.88456$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> : billwg wrote:
>> :
>> : > "Microsoft Corp.'s Internet Explorer halted
>> :
>> :
>> : Which version of GNU/Linux does this product run in?
>> :
>> : And which version of GPL is it released under?
>> :
>> Why none of the above, lucky! Surely you knew that! It is the secret of
>> Windows' success.
>
>
> Well it must be crap then because its not GNU/Linux compatible and
> doesn't have a GPL license and is therefore more
> prone to a lot of viri infections.
I look forward to your support (of course, the reality is you will never
present any).
> And if you are switching from internet exploder to windope in the middle
> of a coversation, you would be wrong there too, as the world's most
> successful OS is not windopes. Surely you knew that!
> Its another open source OS with billions of installed copies.
> Open source is the secret of success.
Hmmm, does that mean I should be able to edit your comments as I see fit...
isn't that the heart of Open Source. :)
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/f351
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account
robert
>
> LOL!!! But then I do have the degrees to match my aspirations
> and you sillies continue to argue over newsreaders and such and try to make
> each other and yourselves believe that common sense and experience are more
> important than education!
So your winning resume reads something like this?
Multiple degrees (MCSE, MCP, MCSD)
No common sense
No experience
> Also, my time is hardly "free of charge".
But certainly "free of expertise" and "free of demand".
billwg
"robert" <ro...@wheel.invalid> wrote in message
news:Ft6dndydv4j...@ctc.net...
: billwg <bi...@twcf.rr.com> wrote:
: >
: > LOL!!! But then I do have the degrees to match my aspirations
: > and you sillies continue to argue over newsreaders and such and try to
make
: > each other and yourselves believe that common sense and experience are
more
: > important than education!
:
: So your winning resume reads something like this?
:
: Multiple degrees (MCSE, MCP, MCSD)
None of that plebian stuff, bob! Good gracious, who would pay money and
invest time in that eyewash? I'm talking BSEE (SBEE in Latin), MBA, that
sort of thing. Real education, not this "associate" or "certified" stuff!
billwg
"7" <website_...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
news:mOxLe.88489$G8.3...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
: billwg wrote:
:
: >
: > "7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
: > news:TCvLe.88456$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
: > : billwg wrote:
: > :
: > : > "Microsoft Corp.'s Internet Explorer halted
: > :
: > :
: > : Which version of GNU/Linux does this product run in?
: > :
: > : And which version of GPL is it released under?
: > :
: > Why none of the above, lucky! Surely you knew that! It is the secret
of
: > Windows' success.
:
:
: Well it must be crap then because its not GNU/Linux compatible and
: doesn't have a GPL license and is therefore more
: prone to a lot of viri infections.
"Crap" is a relative term, lucky, just ask a chicken what it thinks of pig
droppings or ask the pig what it thinks of cow pies!
Now maybe you insist on fresh oats, but there is commerce even in oats that
have been through a horse. If you are making no money off of the fresh
oats, you may be well advised to switch your focus! LOL!!!
: And if you are switching from internet exploder to windope in the middle
: of a coversation, you would be wrong there too, as the world's most
: successful OS is not windopes. Surely you knew that!
I rarely switch in the middle of a coversation, I don't even know what that
is. And I use Windows XP Pro and have never heard of windopes either. Is
that some new linux distro?
: Its another open source OS with billions of installed copies.
: Open source is the secret of success.
:
Well I must be missing out on something, lucky! Good Heavens! Billions of
installed copies? Is this a riddle or joke?
Ray Ingles
> "Microsoft Corp.'s Internet Explorer halted the steady market share advance
> of The Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in July, a Web site monitoring
> company announced today.
A bit disappointing, but fluctuations happen. Heck, the Xbox was actually
profitable for a single quarter once. We'll have to see if this is a bump
or a trend. I'm thinking the former.
Oh, BTW, you don't seem to have replied to this post:
slrndfjpt5....@dmc22317.local
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
"If we have to live our lives weighing every action, every communication,
every human contact, wondering what agents of the state might find out
about it, analyze it, judge it, possibly misconstrue it, and somehow use
it to our detriment, we are not truly free. That sort of life is
characteristic of totalitarian countries, not a free and open society..."
- George Radwanski, Privacy Commissioner of Canada
http://www.privcom.gc.ca/information/ar/02_04_10_e.asp
billwg
"Ray Ingles" <sorc...@dmc22317.local> wrote in message
news:slrndg16kh....@dmc22317.local...
: In article <QEaLe.10067$Oy2....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, billwg wrote:
: > "Microsoft Corp.'s Internet Explorer halted the steady market share
advance
: > of The Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in July, a Web site
monitoring
: > company announced today.
:
: A bit disappointing, but fluctuations happen. Heck, the Xbox was actually
: profitable for a single quarter once. We'll have to see if this is a bump
: or a trend. I'm thinking the former.
:
: Oh, BTW, you don't seem to have replied to this post:
: slrndfjpt5....@dmc22317.local
:
: --
"*I* do. Tell ya what, you prove me wrong. Your homework assigment is to
find a feature the Microsoft claims will be available in IE7 that is not
currently available for Firrefox. (I predict that this is the last time
I'll ever hear a word about this from you.) "
You want to ignore the most obvious feature so that you can dismiss it from
the equation, Ray, but it is the overriding, dominant factor:
FIREFOX IS NOT SUPPLIED BY MICROSOFT
That is a glaring deficiency and will continue to be the reason why it is so
little used. The Firefoxians and their running dogs made a big splash in
the news about how wonderful Firefox was and the gearheads jumped on it. I
did myself. But the promise was undelivered. It blocks popups, sure, and
that may be a problem that some people want fixed, but it also blocks some
desired content and that is a new problem that people don't want.
At the end of the day, it is no better than IE and takes some trouble to
obtain. It doesn't live up to its billing and it's sizzle has diminished a
lot. It is a nice browser, to be sure, but so are all the other browsers.
There is nothing compelling about any of them and IE is the one that is
easiest to get. That will be the one that is most used.
Jim
sure, but does it run on Linux?
--
Cheers, http://www.dotware.co.uk
Jim http://www.dotware-entertainment.co.uk
Maybe the Internet has the answers I need. It certainly answered my
questions about wang enhancement.
Ray Ingles
>: A bit disappointing, but fluctuations happen. Heck, the Xbox was actually
>: profitable for a single quarter once. We'll have to see if this is a bump
>: or a trend. I'm thinking the former.
Oh, and I'm also not convinced that the data are accurate to less than one
percent. And they don't match the data I have (see below). But anyway...
> "*I* do. Tell ya what, you prove me wrong. Your homework assigment is to
> find a feature the Microsoft claims will be available in IE7 that is not
> currently available for Firrefox. (I predict that this is the last time
> I'll ever hear a word about this from you.) "
>
> You want to ignore the most obvious feature...
Ah, so you concede that Firefox today offers all the features that IE7
is projected to have a few years from now? Good.
> FIREFOX IS NOT SUPPLIED BY MICROSOFT
...which is why it actually works. But anyway...
> But the promise was undelivered. It blocks popups, sure, and
> that may be a problem that some people want fixed, but it also blocks some
> desired content and that is a new problem that people don't want.
No, all of the websites you go to work just fine with Firefox. (I can
see why you just assert things without backing them up, Bill. It's *so*
much easier than making a real case...)
> At the end of the day, it is no better than IE and takes some trouble to
> obtain. It doesn't live up to its billing and it's sizzle has diminished a
> lot.
I just did a quick scan of some old logs I had handy. On my little home
website, for Dec 2004-Mar 2005, my hits were ~48% IE, and over 30% Firefox,
with the remaining 20% or so being Konqueror, Safari, etc. (That's *after*
removing the main bots like Googlebot, MSNbot, Yahoo Slurp, etc.)
I'll see if I can't run a comparison over the next few days of the last
four months. But from my perspective, Firefox already has plenty of
'sizzle'.
> There is nothing compelling about any of them and IE is the one that is
> easiest to get. That will be the one that is most used.
Most *abused*, based on the security history, you mean. But anyway...
if you are right, why is *anyone* switching?
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
"Plan B? We're still working on Plan A."
- Geoff Morris
BC
from people, or more specifically kids, getting
PC's in preparation for the upcoming school
year and being somewhat clueless about safe
computing until their first major bug or hacker-
related problem. Be honest - does anyone who's
remotely computer-savvy use IE for anything
other than Windows updates these days?
Also, much of the IE usage statistical usage
is likely indirect via Media Player, Outlook
Express, and such, as well as via faux
"alternative browsers" that actually just use
IE for their browser engines.
-BC
billwg
"Ray Ingles" <sorc...@dmc22317.local> wrote in message
:
: Ah, so you concede that Firefox today offers all the features that IE7
: is projected to have a few years from now? Good.
:
: > FIREFOX IS NOT SUPPLIED BY MICROSOFT
:
: ...which is why it actually works. But anyway...
:
But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray! You are not going to
be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by Microsoft.
: > But the promise was undelivered. It blocks popups, sure, and
: > that may be a problem that some people want fixed, but it also blocks
some
: > desired content and that is a new problem that people don't want.
:
: No, all of the websites you go to work just fine with Firefox. (I can
: see why you just assert things without backing them up, Bill. It's *so*
: much easier than making a real case...)
:
try the www.scpafl.org site for the Seminole County, FL property appraiser.
When you select the mapping java applet and zoom in on some lot or other and
use the ID mode to get a listing of the record, IE works just fine, popping
up a new window with the data record displayed. Firefox doesn't show the
record and actually resets the zoom on the map that you did the selection
from, dismissing it back to the original zoom level. Totally worthless IMO,
but not that many people search around on that site.
: > At the end of the day, it is no better than IE and takes some trouble to
: > obtain. It doesn't live up to its billing and it's sizzle has
diminished a
: > lot.
:
: I just did a quick scan of some old logs I had handy. On my little home
: website, for Dec 2004-Mar 2005, my hits were ~48% IE, and over 30%
Firefox,
: with the remaining 20% or so being Konqueror, Safari, etc. (That's *after*
: removing the main bots like Googlebot, MSNbot, Yahoo Slurp, etc.)
:
Here are the hit stats from my community site. There are about 450 houses
with about 400 of them registered on the site. Is Firefox being reported as
"Netscape"? If it is "Unknown" then it is really in the hurt locker.
Browsers Grabber Hits Percent
MS Internet Explorer No 60260 93.8 %
Netscape No 3252 5 %
Unknown ? 336 0.5 %
Safari No 323 0.5 %
Konqueror No 30 0 %
Here is the Operating System stat section:
Operating Systems - Versions - Unknown
Operating Systems Hits Percent
Windows 63208 98.4 %
Macintosh 626 0.9 %
Unknown 337 0.5 %
Linux 30 0 %
Rick
>
> "Ray Ingles" <sorc...@dmc22317.local> wrote in message
> news:slrndg1gqh....@dmc22317.local...
> :
> : Ah, so you concede that Firefox today offers all the features that IE7
> : is projected to have a few years from now? Good.
> :
> : > FIREFOX IS NOT SUPPLIED BY MICROSOFT
> :
> : ...which is why it actually works. But anyway...
> :
> :
> But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray!
No, it isn't.
> You are not going
> to be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by
> Microsoft.
'Only' 80 million and growing.
(snip)
--
Rick
The Ghost In The Machine
<bi...@twcf.rr.com>
wrote
on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:25:52 GMT
<AL7Me.29632$dJ5....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>:
>
> "Ray Ingles" <sorc...@dmc22317.local> wrote in message
> news:slrndg1gqh....@dmc22317.local...
>:
>: Ah, so you concede that Firefox today offers all the features that IE7
>: is projected to have a few years from now? Good.
>:
>: > FIREFOX IS NOT SUPPLIED BY MICROSOFT
>:
>: ...which is why it actually works. But anyway...
>:
>
> But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray! You are not going to
> be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by Microsoft.
That is indeed a point. The typical user picks up a
machine (in a box) off the shelf, pays for it, totes it
home, opens it up and removes it from the peanuts, locates
the cabling, plugs it all in, and is online in minutes.
That is as it should be. This is, after all, an information
technology device; no one buys a computer just for computations
anymore:
- audio/video playback
- communications device (instant messaging/webcams/browsing/exploring)
- entertainment device (games/learning software)
- control device (lights) in some cases
- bookkeeping (taxes/finances/documentation)
The term "computer" should be replaced by something else.
I'm not sure what, at this point. Media center, perhaps?
(Too Appleish.) Master Information Control System?
(Hmm...too TRONish.) Windows Central Vista Management
System? (Too specific.) That stylish black thing on the
coffee table? Ideally, it would be *in* the coffee table,
invisible to the casual user but attached to everything in
the house, probably through wireless packet tech. (How
one gets it to recognize your stuff and not your neighbor's
is an interesting open question.)
Unless the OEM stuffs a packet in that box labeled "IMPORTANT:
Installation Instructions Prior To Going Online" or some
such, or forces the user to view some sort of explanatory
thing on how to download the browser of one's choice
using FTP, they'll use what's there, and that's mandated
by contract law (and by the contract covered thereby) to be
Internet Explorer on Windows boxes, AFAIK.
[rest snipped]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
ws
<snip>
>>But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray! You are not going to
>>be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by Microsoft.
>
>
> That is indeed a point. The typical user picks up a
> machine (in a box) off the shelf, pays for it, totes it
> home, opens it up and removes it from the peanuts, locates
> the cabling, plugs it all in, and is online in minutes.
>
...and is then compromised in as many minutes?
> That is as it should be.
NOT!
--
change to leews to mail.
Ray Ingles
> But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray! You are not going to
> be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by Microsoft.
Funny, just got *another* friend off IE/OE and using Firefox/Thunderbird
last night. OE spontaneously developed an inability to open attachments,
and that was the very last straw as far as he was concerned. Also gave
him a Knoppix CD. (It seems like, once people see how much better the
non-MS stuff works, it doesn't take too much longer to get them to
experiment with Linux. Thunderbird - the gateway email client! :-> )
> try the www.scpafl.org site for the Seminole County, FL property appraiser.
Firefox, if you set it to, blocks popup windows by default. You can
either allow all popup windows (so it's just like IE - man, do you
really *like* all those popups?), or just add simon03.scpafl.org to the
list of allowed popup sites. Worked fine for me.
See, I told you all the sites you go to work with Firefox!
> Here are the hit stats from my community site. There are about 450 houses
> with about 400 of them registered on the site.
Huh. Mine had a bit over 11,000 unique visitors in the four months of logs
I have on hand.
> Operating Systems - Versions - Unknown
> Operating Systems Hits Percent
> Windows 63208 98.4 %
> Macintosh 626 0.9 %
> Unknown 337 0.5 %
> Linux 30 0 %
I get ~72% Windows, ~17% Linux, ~3% Mac, ~8% other. Clearly we're serving
different audiences.
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
"Sure, it's easy to achieve partial obfuscation through pure
stupidity, but for complete, systematic retardation, you need
hard working great thinkers that put their best effort into
it." - Fredrik Johansson, on Windows NT
Harold N. Kumar
>:
>Lowly educated curmudgeon.
>
Er, maybe English is not your first language (I hope), but if that was
an insult you were trying to post, you may have wanted to say
something like "Poorly educated curmudgeon", or "Lowly, uneducated
curmudgeon", because, as the post stands, it sounds like you think
educated people are lowly. Or something.
I wouldn't normally go around correcting someone's English, but for
God's sake, if you're going to use it to try and insult someone's
education, you should at least be able to write it at an eighth grade
level first.
Ray Ingles
> I get ~72% Windows, ~17% Linux, ~3% Mac, ~8% other. Clearly we're serving
> different audiences.
Opera, 3% Safari, etc.
By OS, it was pretty stable. 67% Windows, 18% Linux, ~4% Mac.
Hadn't really thought to do this analysis before. Kinda neat to see
Firefox growing like that, and Linux/Mac aren't doing too badly either.
I don't know how representative my numbers are, but I got over 15,000
visitors in those three and a half months, and I'd bet it's a bit more
representative than billwg's ~500 homeowners in a single subdivision.
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
Apparently the Bush Administration was seriously considering
cutting back the federal air marshals program because they
didn't want to spend money on lodging for the marshals.
Billion dollars a week in Iraq, which still has no provable
links to al Qaeda? No problem. Hundred bucks a night for a
hotel room so there's a chance that there might be a federal
marshall on board the next plane hijacked by psychotic
fundamentalists? Sorry, can't afford it. - Tom Tomorrow
Jesse F. Hughes
> In article <slrndg3kn2....@dmc22317.local>, Ray Ingles wrote:
>> I get ~72% Windows, ~17% Linux, ~3% Mac, ~8% other. Clearly we're serving
>> different audiences.
>
> Got the logs. For June through August, I got 40% MSIE, 38% Firefox, 4%
> Opera, 3% Safari, etc.
>
> By OS, it was pretty stable. 67% Windows, 18% Linux, ~4% Mac.
Here's my thoroughly unscientific survey:
July: June:
Windows 68.8 % 63.5 %
Linux 19.1 % 25.5 %
Unknown 9.1 % 6.2 %
Macintosh 1.6 % 3.7 %
FreeBSD 0.8 % 0.3 %
Sun Solaris 0.1 % 0 %
Unknown Unix system 0.1 % --
NetBSD 0.1 % 0.4 %
MS Internet Explorer 59.0 % 48.5 %
Firefox 23.1 % 29.7 %
Unknown 8.1 % 5.3 %
Mozilla 3.2 % 4.9 %
Netscape 1.8 % 1.2 %
Konqueror 1.7 % 4.2 %
Safari 1.2 % 2.2 %
Opera 0.6 % 1.7 %
Galeon 0.4 % 0.6 %
Wget 0.3 % --
Other 0.2 % 0.7 %
But my site is low traffic with some visitors giving hundreds of hits
and skewing the results. I don't think this data is really worth a
damn thing, but you gave numbers and I got envious.
--
"Kim liked the math I did for her and gave me quite a few
groceries... likely so many groceries that they would have cost Kim
about what she pays for two whole packages of cigarettes. Few people
have ever rewarded me for my work as much as Kim did." -- Usenet nut
The Ghost In The Machine
<see...@pacific.net.sg>
wrote
on Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:35:38 +0800
<4301512a$0$1579$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>:
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> <snip>
<note: attributions have been lost>
>>>But that is the key feature that everyone wants, Ray! You are not going to
>>>be able to get many people to use a browser that is not made by Microsoft.
>>
>>
>> That is indeed a point. The typical user picks up a
>> machine (in a box) off the shelf, pays for it, totes it
>> home, opens it up and removes it from the peanuts, locates
>> the cabling, plugs it all in, and is online in minutes.
>>
>
> ...and is then compromised in as many minutes?
Well, that is a problem with the current implementation of this
Ideal, if that implementation uses a certain vendor's software.
>
>> That is as it should be.
>
> NOT!
>
Eh? Why not?
While I can't say I like the current monopoly (especially
with the current crop of malware running around) I for one
don't see a problem with the general *concept* of plugging
in and turning on (portable mobiles do it all the time!).
Of course, there are other ideals that may be a factor.
With current technology, the following partitioning should work
for the general user, though AFAICT most people simply use
a single / partition for everything, and maybe swap:
a1: /boot : 100 MB, usually ext2
a2: swap: variable, probably 512 MB or 1 GB
a3: root disk: 10 GB
a4: extended drive area: [rest of disk]
a5: root disk #2: 8 GB -- for emergency backup or experimental system
a6: user disk: for /usr, probably 12 GB or so
a7: var disk: for /var, probably 2 GB or so
a8: opt: for /opt, about 30 GB, depending on disk size
a9: home disk: for /home, might be the rest of the disk
There's a lot of factors here. /opt in particular needs
to be nice and big (UT2004 in particular consumes about 6 GB)
for serious gamers, but can be virtually ignored in some
installations. I've also not considered such issues as
volume striping/RAID, as I'm not familiar with them.
(Most entry level systems come with 40 GB, which means I've
overallocated for such a system.)
Admittedly, I like the general idea of parted, though
there's a couple of problems with it, generally:
[1] It needs to support more file system types. No doubt there are
enterprising hackers out there even now extending it, so that
it can move, resize, and otherwise manipulate reiserfs, jfs,
and other such filesystems. I'd have to look to see what
I can do in that space, if it becomes a serious issue for
me personally. I like reiserfs on my systems at home,
except for the /boot area.
[2] It needs to come with documentation for the scenario of resizing
the root partition. The easiest method I can come up with in
this space (and I can't say I've tested it!) is:
- go into single mode
- copy / to a spare area temporarily (there are a number of issues
here, not the least of which is ensuring one *has* such an area)
- pivot_root to that area, and remount everything else properly
- unmount and resize the root
- remount the root
- pivot_root back and remount the system
Highly disruptive, though it looks vaguely doable.
There are issues if the root is stealing space from
a volume that is currently in use (e.g., /var).
Contrast this to Window's defragmentation, which can run
while the system's executing programs. Of course, the
Win98 variant seems to like to restart itself if something
else touches the disk.
Other possibilities include a LiveDisk shipped with
the unit. LiveDisks for Gentoo are very bad from an
installation standpoint (if one likes GUIs) as they simply
dump one into a shell with some explanatory text; however,
that gives one the ultimate in flexibility, and they do
have a handbook on the CD (examinable via 'links') which
one can walk through in the more or less customary fashion,
and in any event the Gentoo handbook relies a lot on
issuing commands to a shell.
RedHat's install is far slicker and geared towards
installation; however, unless they've changed it lately one
can also use it as a rescue CD.
I've not tried Debian's, lately.
Once booted into this environment with no volumes mounted,
resizing the root partition is almost trivial; the main
issue is ensuring lilo is rerun afterwards if one is using
it, and that grub still boots -- though usually grub is
very forgiving.
billwg
"Ray Ingles" <sorc...@dmc22317.local> wrote in message
: In article <slrndg3kn2....@dmc22317.local>, Ray Ingles wrote:
: > I get ~72% Windows, ~17% Linux, ~3% Mac, ~8% other. Clearly we're
serving
: > different audiences.
:
: Got the logs. For June through August, I got 40% MSIE, 38% Firefox, 4%
: Opera, 3% Safari, etc.
:
: By OS, it was pretty stable. 67% Windows, 18% Linux, ~4% Mac.
:
: Hadn't really thought to do this analysis before. Kinda neat to see
: Firefox growing like that, and Linux/Mac aren't doing too badly either.
: I don't know how representative my numbers are, but I got over 15,000
: visitors in those three and a half months, and I'd bet it's a bit more
: representative than billwg's ~500 homeowners in a single subdivision.
How does Firefox show up? My site vendor's stuff doesn't seem to register
Firefox per se. The #2 browser is scored as Netscape and it is pretty far
back. The people owning homes here are generally upscale incomes, way above
the average for the area. Just about everyone is a university grad or
higher and are a pretty broad slice of society. We have doctors, lawyers,
engineers, small business owners, sales and marketing fast trackers, and
some retired folks. Everyone that I know has at least one computer and most
have a couple. No one uses linux except maybe one but I can't be sure about
that, it may be some gawker rather than a resident.
I think that this group is the most likely to be swayed by the linux pitch
since they are more serious than most regarding computer use, yet they have
not believed it or else have not heard it.
What kind of person uses your site?
billwg
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:3vdct2-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
:: >
: > ...and is then compromised in as many minutes?
:
: Well, that is a problem with the current implementation of this
: Ideal, if that implementation uses a certain vendor's software.
:
unprotected server and even then one prior to the latest SP changes? A home
user setting up his WinXP Home is not running IIS and is not susceptible to
the hacks for breaking into servers at all. The user can find a way to get
a virus or such by surfing to malware sites, but all that stuff that used to
be susceptible to these attack is indeed disabled by default these days.
Ray Ingles
>: I don't know how representative my numbers are, but I got over 15,000
>: visitors in those three and a half months, and I'd bet it's a bit more
>: representative than billwg's ~500 homeowners in a single subdivision.
>:
> How does Firefox show up?
On Windows: "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3)
Gecko/20041 001 Firefox/0.10.1"
On Linux: "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.6)
Gecko/20050330 Firefox/1.0.2"
> The people owning homes here are generally upscale incomes, way above
> the average for the area.
So, certainly not feeling any significant price pressure or desire to
economize. Sounds like the kind of people in that New York Times
article who throw out the old computer when it fills up with malware.
Say... do you get reports on IP addresses that attempt attacks on the
sites? You know, worms and such? Any of those IPs match people in the
sub? :->
> I think that this group is the most likely to be swayed by the linux pitch
> since they are more serious than most regarding computer use, yet they have
> not believed it or else have not heard it.
Clearly your theory is wrong. Care to speculate on why that might be the
case?
> What kind of person uses your site?
I've got a bunch of essays on various topics, some software I wrote
(for Linux and Palms), and some presentations I've done for the Metro
Detroit Linux Users Group. Most of the traffic I get comes from web
searches (Google and MSN, mostly) that hit on one of the essay topics.
(Oddly, my site seems to be one of the top Google hits for
"disadvantages of Linux", thanks to an essay I wrote about seven years
ago.)
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
"Naturally the common people don't want war... [but] it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along... [T]ell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
- Hermann Goering
chrisv
>I think that this group is the most likely to be swayed by the linux pitch
>since they are more serious than most regarding computer use
It helps just to not be a SUV-driving idiot.
The Ghost In The Machine
<ylTMe.36336$dJ5....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>:
It's getting better. XPSP2 got *no* infections from a
recent (some months back?) honeypot test suite.
It's still not that good of a firewall, from what I've
heard; it does nothing to block outgoing connections to
a remote port 25 (say), for example, which is something
iptables has no trouble doing. If anything, iptables
tends to be a little overenthusiastic about it; it'll block
*all* port25 connections -- but that's arguably preferable
to the alternative.
Then again, I don't have XPSP2 at home so can't test it. I have
Win98, and now that the Kayak is a dualboot I don't use Win98
that often. (I need to play disk shuffle, though, at some point,
and one of my disks is starting to cough a bit. It's annoying
when I'm trying to frag something in UT and the game just freezes
because the kernel subsystem waits for the drive to recalibrate.)
It's one of the more annoying aspects of Linux. It's
well-nigh perfect as it stands, but most everyone notices
the Windows improvements and says "Look! Windows is now
BETTER THAN EVER!" as opposed to "Sheesh, you'd think
they'd've caught up to Linux by now." Most of that is
because of Microsoft's marketing budget; no doubt you
remember "wehavethewayout.com" and the Linux response
"wehavethewayin.com" -- or maybe .org; I forget which.
But ah, the Web, such a malleable thing!
"wehavethewayin.org" -- name not found.
"wehavethewayin.com" -- squatter.
"wehavethewayout.com" -- no response.