Suse CTO says linux' desktop market share in 5 years will be single digits
casioc...@gmail.com
Oh man. It'll take forever.
"For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
percent range."
George Ellison (undercover)
At least he's being realistic. Do we really want the other 90+%
anyways? There's already enough people calling for Linux to turn into a
poor man's Windows.
casioc...@gmail.com
Yes. I think linux should stay away from windows and develop on its own
terms, with its own innovations. I just used kio-locate and love it.
It's things like that that are uniquely linux.
Roy Schestowitz
> George Ellison (undercover) wrote:
>> casioc...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Oh man. It'll take forever.
I suspect that you have just fed a crossposting flatfish. Judging by the
groups posted to, it's likely to be flatfish+++ (sockpuppet codename "Tomas
Dunton").
>> > "For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
>> > in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
>> > percent range."
>> >
>> > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061
>>
>> At least he's being realistic. Do we really want the other 90+%
>> anyways? There's already enough people calling for Linux to turn into a
>> poor man's Windows.
>
> Yes. I think linux should stay away from windows and develop on its own
> terms, with its own innovations. I just used kio-locate and love it.
> It's things like that that are uniquely linux.
Desktop? 5 years? In 5 years not many people will be using desktops. And
let's look around us:
* Mobile devices are gaining traction and Linux is set to dominate that arena
with an expected market share of 40% within a few years (at the expense of
Symbian and others).
* The PlayStation 3 and Wii run Linux. The PlayStation is likely to have the
largest market share.
* SOA. Linux is the best choice bar none in terms of TCO. I am not sure about
Sun. UNIX is always weakening. And how many people do you know who opt for
Web-based applications nowadays? They are almost exclusively LAMP (the
successful ones anyway).
The landscape is transforming itself. In 10 years, the days when people used
computer on desks (as opposed to e.g., speak to their mobile device) may
seem a great distance away. Look back just over a decade ago and discover
that Gates' thought that the Internet was bound to disappear or would never
catch on.
Best wishes,
Roy
--
Roy S. Schestowitz | The most satisfying eXPerience is UNIX
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
2:05pm up 29 days 2:20, 7 users, load average: 0.14, 0.58, 0.60
http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
news.cogeco.ca
"George Ellison (undercover)" <notam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> At least he's being realistic. Do we really want the other 90+%
> anyways? There's already enough people calling for Linux to turn into a
> poor man's Windows.
I guess not. Meaning that Linux will always be for losers.
news.cogeco.ca
"Roy Schestowitz" <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
> Desktop? 5 years? In 5 years not many people will be using desktops. And
> let's look around us:
Ahahahahahahah..... It will be used to display the digits on your 50 cent
wrist watch, but as long as the code bloat traces it's lineage back to Unix,
Schestowitz will be as happy as a pig in shit.
Hold on a sec.... he is a pig in shit...
yttrx
If you knew what you were talking about at ALL, you little wigger bitch,
you would know that linux shares NO LINEAGE AT ALL WITH ANY UNIX.
Goddamn youre an idiot.
-----yttrx
news.cogeco.ca
"yttrx" <yt...@yttrx.net> wrote in message
news:3_nFg.171652$B82....@fe53.usenetserver.com...
> If you knew what you were talking about at ALL, you little wigger bitch,
> you would know that linux shares NO LINEAGE AT ALL WITH ANY UNIX.
You know, you are absolutely right, other than the fact that It's modeled
on Unix, it operates like Unix, it has essentially the same core interface
as Unix, and all it's commands are copied from their Unix equivalents.
So other than being a near exact clone of Unix, you are right, Linux is
nothing like Unix.
So how long have you been sucking on your little Linux ShitSickle?
yttrx
>
> "yttrx" <yt...@yttrx.net> wrote in message
> news:3_nFg.171652$B82....@fe53.usenetserver.com...
>> If you knew what you were talking about at ALL, you little wigger bitch,
>> you would know that linux shares NO LINEAGE AT ALL WITH ANY UNIX.
>
> You know, you are absolutely right, other than the fact that It's modeled
> on Unix, it operates like Unix, it has essentially the same core interface
> as Unix, and all it's commands are copied from their Unix equivalents.
>
> So other than being a near exact clone of Unix, you are right, Linux is
> nothing like Unix.
>
I didnt say linux is nothing like unix, you idiot. I said it does not
SHARE LINEAGE. That's not the same thing...but someone as brilliant and
experienced as you would understand that, now wouldnt you?
Fucking worthless moron.
-----yttrx
GreyCloud
Yet Intel supports Linux big time.
And also check out IBMs website.
http://www.ibm.com/Search/?q=Linux&v=14&lang=en&cc=us&en=utf&Search.x=0&Search.y=0&Search=Search
--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?
Scott Nudds
> I didnt say linux is nothing like unix, you idiot. I said it does not
> SHARE LINEAGE. That's not the same thing...but someone as brilliant and
> experienced as you would understand that, now wouldnt you?
If it looks like Unix, smells like Unix, and you tell me that your
Linux ShitStick tastes like Unix, it shares lineage with Unix you
fucking moron.
Linux proponents, too stupid to be allowed to continued to breathe.
The Ghost In The Machine
<mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote
on Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:20:45 -0600
<S46dnW7BuqeCvHvZ...@bresnan.com>:
Well there you have it; Intel is a loser and AMD Opterons will come out
on top, running Windows of course.
Erm...wait, does this make any sense? :-)
(I'll admit to some curiosity as to AMD's position on Linux.)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.
The Ghost In The Machine
<yt...@yttrx.net>
wrote
on Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:26:58 GMT
<6woFg.15227$y14...@fe16.usenetserver.com>:
You expected any less from coogeecoo here? :-)
In any event, while there's no code sharing, there's plenty
of idea sharing -- although in all fairness there's only
so many ways one can declare fork() or pipe() anyway. :-)
But that's not a bad thing at all; it makes code nice and
portable between UNIX(tm) and Linux. (Or, in some cases,
vice versa.)
No doubt coogeecoo is referring to the SCO suit, which
alleges that Linux somehow stole some code from IBM
and incorporate it into its kernel. AIUI this suit
is now more or less dead, as is SCO... :-)
>
>
> -----yttrx
Jim
and weary over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore...:
The reason that x86-64 took so long to appear was that Microsoft Windows had
the stranglehold on the desktop market that it did; this being a 32-bit
environment created zero incentive for chip manufacturers to develop 64-bit
for the desktop market until very recently. Until that happened 64-bit was
the domain of high performance UNIX computing (Cray in 1988 followed by
Silicon Graphics' subsidiary MIPS in 1991). It was the LINUX community that
screamed loud enough at AMD and Intel for desktop 64-bit, and AMD listened
first with the dual core Opteron. Microsoft's flagship product, five years
down the line, is STILL 32-bit!
--
http://dotware.co.uk
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
- R. Buckminster Fuller
yttrx
> yttrx wrote:
>> I didnt say linux is nothing like unix, you idiot. I said it does not
>> SHARE LINEAGE. That's not the same thing...but someone as brilliant and
>> experienced as you would understand that, now wouldnt you?
>
> If it looks like Unix, smells like Unix, and you tell me that your
> Linux ShitStick tastes like Unix, it shares lineage with Unix you
> fucking moron.
>
Evidently you know absolutely nothing about operating systems,
computer programming, or history.
-----yttrx
news.cogeco.ca
"GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote in message
> Yet Intel supports Linux big time.
Impossible since Linux isn't even ready for prime time. Linux is the
little fishie that never could.
The Ghost In The Machine
<BushIsA...@hotmail.com>
wrote
on Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:31:43 -0400
<SYsFg.1295$dB....@read2.cgocable.net>:
Exactly. This is why the vast majority of web servers, database boxes,
and grid computers are now based on Microsoft Server.
Oh, wait, they're not?
news.cogeco.ca
> Scott Nudds <Nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > If it looks like Unix, smells like Unix, and you tell me that your
> > Linux ShitStick tastes like Unix, it shares lineage with Unix you
> > fucking moron.
"yttrx" <yt...@yttrx.net> wrote in message
news:w7sFg.25008$6C.1...@fe60.usenetserver.com...
> Evidently you know absolutely nothing about operating systems,
> computer programming, or history.
a. In The Beginning
It was 1991, and the ruthless agonies of the cold war were gradually coming
to an end. There was an air of peace and tranquility that prevailed in the
horizon. In the field of computing, a great future seemed to be in the
offing, as powerful hardware pushed the limits of the computers beyond what
anyone expected.
But still, something was missing.
And it was the none other than the Operating Systems, where a great void
seemed to have appeared.
For one thing, DOS was still reigning supreme in its vast empire of personal
computers. Bought by Bill Gates from a Seattle hacker for $50,000, the bare
bones operating system had sneaked into every corner of the world by virtue
of a clever marketing strategy. PC users had no other choice. Apple Macs
were better, but with astronomical prices that nobody could afford, they
remained a horizon away from the eager millions.
The other dedicated camp of computing was the Unixworld. But Unix itself was
far more expensive. In quest of big money, the Unix vendors priced it high
enough to ensure small PC users stayed away from it. The source code of
Unix, once taught in universities courtesy of Bell Labs, was now cautiously
guarded and not published publicly. To add to the frustration of PC users
worldwide, the big players in the software market failed to provide an
efficient solution to this problem.
A solution seemed to appear in form of MINIX. It was written from scratch by
Andrew S. Tanenbaum, a US-born Dutch professor who wanted to teach his
students the inner workings of a real operating system. It was designed to
run on the Intel 8086 microprocessors that had flooded the world market.
As an operating system, MINIX was not a superb one. But it had the advantage
that the source code was available. Anyone who happened to get the book
'Operating Systems: Design and Implementation' by Tanenbaum could get hold
of the 12,000 lines of code, written in C and assembly language. For the
first time, an aspiring programmer or hacker could read the source codes of
the operating system, which to that time the software vendors had guarded
vigorously. A superb author, Tanenbaum captivated the brightest minds of
computer science with the elaborate and immaculately lively discussion of
the art of creating a working operating system. Students of Computer Science
all over the world pored over the book, reading through the codes to
understand the very system that runs their computer.
And one of them was Linus Torvalds.
news.cogeco.ca
> Exactly. This is why the vast majority of web servers, database boxes,
> and grid computers are now based on Microsoft Server.
Linux holds 22% of the server market, windows almost double that.
Supiid, Stupid, Linux ShitLickers......
yttrx
Congratulations, you just plagiarized the entirety of part A of Ragib Hasan's
"History of Linux", as can be found here:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rhasan/linux/
So your plagiarism is supposed to show that you know something about computers?
That you can click on a hyperlink and know how to copy and paste?
Yeah, you're a fucking moron.
-----yttrx
The Ghost In The Machine
<2WwFg.1431$dB....@read2.cgocable.net>:
And this figure is from precisely where?
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-236732.html
is quite dated but suggests NT had 38% and Linux 25%.
In 1999.
A revenue breakdown is available, for what it's worth; 2004
Q4 revenue is $14B for all Unix vendors. This compares
rather favorably with Microsoft's sales of *all* systems of
maybe $11B (1/4 of ttm $44B; to do better, I'd have to dig).
Of course now I've lost the page as I'm writing this. Gaah.
http://www.cioupdate.com/research/article.php/3449031
suggests the Linux server market will grow to $35B in 2008.
This is of course a projection, and a rather optimistic one.
Why? Because the Vista Server offerings are a complete unknown
at this point, but one can bet Microsoft won't stand still
and take it lying down. (One can also bet Vista will be a
complete flop, but I for one doubt it; Microsoft has too much
money.)
http://survey.netcraft.com/surveys/analysis/https/2004/Nov/
suggests almost half of the secure server market is
owned by Microsoft, and most of the rest by Apache.
It also shows Linux share hovering at about 27.3%,
as of March 2004.
GreyCloud
Yet Intel dumped a high priced o/s for Linux. Does anybody still think
they are using VMS on their fab lines anymore?
Linux is what makes ballmer jump around like a penguin.
Linonut
> news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott Nudds <Nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> a. In The Beginning
>> It was 1991, and the ruthless agonies of the cold war were gradually coming
>> to an end. There was an air of peace and tranquility that prevailed in the
>> horizon. In the field of computing, a great future seemed to be in the
>> offing, as powerful hardware pushed the limits of the computers beyond what
>> anyone expected.
>
> Congratulations, you just plagiarized the entirety of part A of Ragib Hasan's
> "History of Linux", as can be found here:
>
> https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rhasan/linux/
>
> So your plagiarism is supposed to show that you know something about
> computers? That you can click on a hyperlink and know how to copy and
> paste?
>
> Yeah, you're a fucking moron.
Good catch.
Sort of like catching a mud-filled boot instead of a nice big bass,
though.
--
"Get the business! Get the business! Get the business!"
-- Steve Ballmer, CEO Microsoft
Ruel Smith
> Yeah, you're a fucking moron.
What a worthless loser. Go back to your little rock, and crawl back. BTW,
your boyfriend is calling you. He wants his dinner ready for him when he
gets home...
Mark Kent
Jim <ja...@the-computer-shop.co.uk> espoused:
If you go back to the original article and look a little more carefully,
you'll find a desktop linux company indicate where they expect their
largest growth to be. They expecting to have a shout at 15-20% of the
growing markets, ie., the ones which are going to be buying anything,
and the ones which are /much/ larger than the existing markets, as yet
undeveloped.
It also notes that 80% of embedded processing is expected to be on
Linux. As /this/ is the major growth area for the /developed/ markets,
this is critical.
So, the article actually indicates 80% of the growth area in developed
markets, and 20% of undeveloped markets. Personally, I think they're
underestimating, but they do need to be cautious, of course. It's taken
a long time for apache to hit the 70% point, for example, and similarly,
it's taking Firefox a long time to reach the 50% point. But it will.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Fortune finishes the great quotations, #12
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write the instructions.
yttrx
I'm sorry...did someone from OHIO just call me a worthless loser?
Ahem. Yeah.
-----yttrx
news.cogeco.ca
> Congratulations, you just plagiarized the entirety of part A of Ragib
Hasan's
> "History of Linux", as can be found here:
What a shame you don't have the honesty or brain power to read it.
But of cousre doing so would prove you to be the moron you are, and your
small little mind can't cope with that can it?
So best to manufacture the charge of "plagerism" and then use that to hide
the fact that as always - you are once again - wrong.
Stupid... Stupid... Linux ShitLicker...
news.cogeco.ca
"Ruel Smith" <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
> What a worthless loser. Go back to your little rock, and crawl back. BTW,
> your boyfriend is calling you. He wants his dinner ready for him when he
> gets home...
Wow, I haven't heard that insult since the last time I urinated on your
kind.
Meanwhile the world has evolved along the lines I predicted, and your
kind ignorantly denied was possible or probable.
I am back to remind you that Linux is a ShitSickle, and that whose who
suck on it, have breath that smells like dung.
news.cogeco.ca
> I'm sorry...did someone from OHIO just call me a worthless loser?
No, someone identified you as a worthless loser.
You really need to lean the difference.
news.cogeco.ca
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:1knir3-
> And this figure is from precisely where?
> It also shows Linux share hovering at about 27.3%,
> as of March 2004.
22% 27%. It still means that 73% to 78% of all network administrators
would rather use someting else other than Linux.
Often that something is NT.
Linux hasn't grown in the server market at the expense of NT. Linux has
just displaced other versions of Unix in the server market.
Whoop De Dooo......................
news.cogeco.ca
> Linux is what makes ballmer jump around like a penguin.
Ya, Balmer should definately be put down, but then he's fat, and he's old,
so he will die soon enough.
As to Linux, you don't hear him whining about it any more. Balmer knows
that Linux is no threat to Microsoft, and that Linux will always be the
small yet hugely bloated OS that couldn't.
yttrx
Feh, at least theyre not a dipshit plagiarising wigger from
canada.
-----yttrx
yttrx
>
> "Ruel Smith" <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
>> What a worthless loser. Go back to your little rock, and crawl back. BTW,
>> your boyfriend is calling you. He wants his dinner ready for him when he
>> gets home...
>
> Wow, I haven't heard that insult since the last time I urinated on your
> kind.
>
Plagiarising, lying idiot.
-----yttrx
Ruel Smith
> Feh, at least theyre not a dipshit plagiarising wigger from
> canada.
I bet you're a little 5'6", 140lb lap rat that couldn't beat up a 12 yr. old
kid. You certainly got a big mouth and hide behind anonymity on the
Internet to spew out the insults you do. I bet you're nothing more than a
little b*tch that gets smacked around and his lunch money taken from him.
yttrx
I'm six feet tall, 200lbs, and 60% of my skin is tattooed.
I hang out at the horseshoe bar on seventh street and avenue B on
monday nights, here in manhattan---if you'd like to stop by and
see for yourself. I've extended this invite quite a few times, and
occasionally someone even takes me up on it.
Don't worry, I won't hit you. I might even buy you a pint.
-----yttrx
Malware Magnet
Or one could argue that using Windows or Linux is not a choice left up to
Network Administrators, but corporate management; those people who write the
checks that pay for the company's systems. I have worked with hundreds of
Network and System Administrators who loathed Windows. However, these people
do not make the purchasing decisions regarding their company's technology.
I, for one, don't feel the Linux server market share, much less the Linux
desktop market share, are points worth arguing because I don't believe this
is where Linux's maximum potential for growth will be realized. Rather, I
believe that Linux will continue to thrive as an embedded kernel, among
other things, of course. Linux has become the kernel of choice for new
companies developing products aimed at leveraging, if not directing, upcoming
technology trends.
The reasons for this seem rather elementary. There is a higher return on
products built using Linux kernels... even those that have been hardened
and/or customized to the point where they are almost unrecognizable :)
Paying your own staff to tweak your own product is much cheaper than having
to pay "someone" for permission to do so.
Using a kernel "other than Linux" usually involves a number of restrictions,
fees, and various mandates. There are no such concerns using embedded Linux
kernels.
Last week, I had a nice long conversation with a friend who works at Isilon
Systems.
He invited me to come aboard and I am considering it, especially in
light of recent developments at my current workplace.
I digress...
Isilon's entire business is built on core competencies made available through a
kernel "other than Windows," as are a number of other companies we have been
working with both recently and for years. These companies include:
F5 Networks
www.f5.com
Barracuda SPAM Firewalls
http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/?L=en
Cymphonix
www.cymphonix.com
BlueCat Networks
www.bluecatnetworks.com
Appliansys
http://www.appliansys.com/dnsbox.shtml
Unitrends
http://www.unitrends.com/
Of course, there is a plethora of other products using embedded Linux. Some
of them are discussed here:
LinuxDevices.com
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4936596231.html
--
Life is short. How do you want to be remembered?
GreyCloud
The clowns in redmond are still shaking in their boots. Over linux or
masturbating I dont' know.
Tim Smith
> I'm sorry...did someone from OHIO just call me a worthless loser?
Hey, DEVO is from Ohio, therefore it is a cool state.
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
>> Congratulations, you just plagiarized the entirety of part A of Ragib
>> Hasan's "History of Linux", as can be found here:
> So best to manufacture the charge of "plagerism" and then use that to hide
> the fact that as always - you are once again - wrong.
Your post seems to be an exact copy of the site he linked to, and you presented
it as if you had wrote it. That's plagerism.
--
--Tim Smith
Hadron Quark
Not its not : its "plagiarism". And that is "pedantic" :-;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
>
> --
> --Tim Smith
--
casioc...@gmail.com
Penguins are not fish.
Jim
weary over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore...:
>
Nor are they as fragile as windows (yuk, yuk, yuk!)
--
http://dotware.co.uk
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
- R. Buckminster Fuller
The Ghost In The Machine
<IITFg.1307$sM1...@read1.cgocable.net>:
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
> news:1knir3-
>> And this figure is from precisely where?
>
>> It also shows Linux share hovering at about 27.3%,
>> as of March 2004.
>
> 22% 27%. It still means that 73% to 78% of all network administrators
> would rather use someting else other than Linux.
>
> Often that something is NT.
Actually, Win2k, as near as I can read the tea leaves. NT3 was
a piece of junk; NT4 was an improvement but Win2k is arguably
the most reliable Windows OS today.
(Not that that's saying all *that* much.)
>
> Linux hasn't grown in the server market at the expense of NT. Linux has
> just displaced other versions of Unix in the server market.
>
> Whoop De Dooo......................
>
OK. And this answers my original question precisely how?
The Ghost In The Machine
<ja...@the-computer-shop.co.uk>
wrote
on Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:30:52 GMT
<MidGg.4123$HO5....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>:
> Once upon a midnight dreary, while casioc...@gmail.com
> pondered weak and weary over many a quaint and curious
> volume of forgotten lore...:
>
>>
>> news.cogeco.ca wrote:
>>> "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote in message
>>> > Yet Intel supports Linux big time.
>>>
>>> Impossible since Linux isn't even ready for prime time.
>>> Linux is the little fishie that never could.
>>
>> Penguins are not fish.
>
> Nor are they as fragile as windows (yuk, yuk, yuk!)
Not to mention that many breeds (well, one of every pair
anyway) simply stand around all day in sub-zero freezing
weather doing nothing but carry an egg on their feet. ;-)
That bespeaks of a certain amount of hardiness to me.
Brrr....
Not that penguin behavior is all that relevant to a Linux
discussion, beyond Tux the mascot, who is cute enough.
And some penguins are somewhat lemminglike, if the joke
about them flopping on their backs as a plane flies over
is any indication. Fortunately for them, unlike lemmings,
they can swim...and in fact that's when they are in their
element; they virtually fly underwater, swoop, tuck and
do all sorts of stuff. And of course they *catch* fish...
Stuffed Tux mascots are also available.
Perhaps that's an indication of our love for Linux, or
just the fact that we like cute plush toys? I don't
know; I don't have one. (There was a Gentoo contest
for sponsorship of a live penguin -- apparently this is
along the lines of getting status reports on the bird.
See the 2006-08-04 entry on http://www.gentoo.org/ .
Things like this make life interesting, I suppose.)
A google for "plush Windows mascot" coughed up the
Philly Fanatic:
http://www.lockergnome.com/buy/index.php?gcsiteid=2222&gccid=2086982
which doesn't make an awful lot of sense (unless one is a
baseball fan from eastern Pennsylvania, I suppose :-) ),
or a Windows 3.1 bear page on MSDN:
http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/08/18/54655.aspx
which Dave (Dave who? Cutler?) obsessively carried
around with him. The blog also mentions a dinosaur named
Fluffy, and Bozo the Clown (which, strangely enough,
was a *franchise* -- weird).
Apparently this bear was abandoned sometime during or after
the Win95 release, since I for one can't say I've seen it,
or if I did, I don't remember it. The best Google can do
on "Microsoft Windows Bear" is apparently something called
www.bearshare.com, which for some reason has a smiling bear
wearing headphones as its logo, something on ebay with a
polar bear ("Just the Bear Facts"), and what appears to
be a very weird Polish blog.
(No, I'm *not* going to search for "plush flag toy".)
Contrast this to "Linux penguin"; I get more than a dozen
representations of penguins, most of them looking like Tux
(two with rocket launchers), one which is folded paper,
and even a key chain and shot glass. One of the non-Tux
variants is
http://www.ecliptic.ch/stock/Detail/RE1204_linux_win.html
which shows a penguin lying on his side on an inflatable
raft enjoying a (presumably cool) wet drink with a soda straw.
Another is http://www.barelyfitz.com/, showing a penguin (not
quite Tux) wearing armor.
Linux is quite clearly winning the logo market. :-) For what
it's worth.
hawat....@gmail.com
[...]
> If you go back to the original article and look a little more carefully,
> you'll find a desktop linux company indicate where they expect their
> largest growth to be. They expecting to have a shout at 15-20% of the
> growing markets, ie., the ones which are going to be buying anything,
> and the ones which are /much/ larger than the existing markets, as yet
> undeveloped.
To a degree, it doesn't matter, at least in the short term. Kinda like a
small slice of a big pie versus a large slice of a small pie.
All that needs to happen is that enough corporations put money behind
Linux/GNU, there's a large enough user base, to achieve a critical mass.
Once there's enough momentum such that more and more companies release
hardware drivers and commercial software to run on linux, then there'll be
progress. The numbers in the short term aren't so critical.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
Mark Kent
hawat....@gmail.com <hawat....@gmail.com> espoused:
I'm sure you're quite right. I think this'll happen as the corps become
more aware of the growing government market. Govs tend to be the
richest and most influential organisations in any jurisdiction, and so
will set the pace, particularly when the ball's been dropped, as it has
here, by the commercial markets.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Do not permit a woman to ask forgiveness, for that is only the first
step. The second is justification of herself by accusation of you.
-- DeGourmont
news.cogeco.ca
> No doubt coogeecoo is referring to the SCO suit, which
> alleges that Linux somehow stole some code from IBM
> and incorporate it into its kernel. AIUI this suit
> is now more or less dead, as is SCO... :-)
That's not what I was referring to, but you are correct, SCO is dead.
Virtually every Unix variant that has been developed over the years is dead.
Unix proponents just keep rewriting the same OS filth in a vain hope that
some day people will actually be stupid enough to run that Shit OS.
Sorry.. It ain't happening. Unix like Linux is just shit on a stick.
news.cogeco.ca
<hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> All that needs to happen is that enough corporations put money behind
> Linux/GNU, there's a large enough user base, to achieve a critical mass.
Gee, you got Sun, IBM, Intel, Dell, and even for chirst sake Wallmart, and
you fuckups still can't get anyone to purhcase Linux.
Linux is Dog Vomit, and everyone (except the fucking brain dead) know it.
The Ghost In The Machine
<3xMGg.1464$sM1....@read1.cgocable.net>:
So OK. Why do we have a 70%/25%/5% breakdown of Apache/IIS/other?
Oh, that's right, all of those websites must be running Apache on
Win2003 server on an experimental basis. Silly, silly me.
Rex Ballard
> Oh man. It'll take forever.
>
> "For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
> in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
> percent range."
>
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061
<quote>
Hohndel predicted that the embedded market will be 80 percent Linux in
the next five years.
For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
percent range.
"Adoption of the Linux desktop is more likely in emerging markets where
there is no legacy," Hohndel said.
Raymond got riled up as he proclaimed what he thought was necessary to
be done for desktop Linux to be successful.
"We need to do whatever compromise is necessary to get full multimedia
capability on Linux so non-technical users don't dismiss us out of
hand," Raymond shouted.
A somewhat more relaxed DiBona advised the audience to tell people to
use Mozilla Firefox on their desktops.
"Develop for the Web," DiBona said. "People can switch to Web
applications from their desktop more easily."
</quote>
This is a pretty good picture.
Emebedded Linux is all over the place. If you lump embedded linux with
the rest of the market, there are actually more Linux devices than
Windows devices being sold every year. Within a year or two there may
be more *nix devices deployed than Windows devices, and most people
won't even know they are using Linux. Perhaps if Linus insisted that
Linux trademark and logo be used on all devices that use Linux, that
would change.
Most people spend as much as 80% of their time interacting with web
applications hosted by or connected to Linux/Unix systems.
And yet, the Windows "Web" APIs limit the user to less than 5% of the
power available through Unix systems.
AJAX and OSS APIs are making it much easier to get the full
capabilities of Linux regardless of the desktop. In many ways, OSS is
invading the desktop. Firefox, OpenOffice, and so on.
I was surprised at the "single digit" rate. I'm also curious as to
which metric he was referring. Perhaps he was talking about the number
of machines sold with Linux (only) preinstalled.
I also agree with Eric Raymond, the "open-source only" mentality has
given way to a more pragmatic approach to coexistence with commercial
software.
The one thing that always comes to mind, is the experience of being
actively involved (and even ridiculed for) in the commercialization of
the Internet. The "smart money" was backing Netware IPX/SPX, and
Microsoft NetBIOS. The TCP/IP protocol was rarely touted by vendors
and usually reluctantly shown only when a customer insisted.
But then one day, Mosaic 2.0 came out and over 200,000 copies were
downloaded in less than a week. Counts using cookies (just added to
Mosaic 2.0) showed that around 2 million people were using the Internet
for web access. That was more than AOL, Prodigy, and Compuserve at the
time. Even more interesting, market metrics showed that the Internet
user base was doubling in size every 4 months. Within 16 months, that
2 million users had become 32 million users. That was more than all
other services COMBINED.
If you weren't actively involved, you would never have predicted this
kind of phenominal growth. You would never have predicted the impact
that the "Internet" would have on our culture.
But if you knew the problems of getting connected in 1991, and you
understood the network of BBS operators who had switched to TCP/IP in
1992 and 1993, and you understood the ease of connecting made possible
by trumpet winsock and Mosaic at the end of 1993, you knew that by
1994, the numbers would be crazy. And if you knew that MCI had agreed
to provide a commercial TCP/IP backbone, and connect that to corporate
users, you knew that the corporate market would explode.
So here we are, 12 years later, and there are some fundamental triggers
that appear to be about to trigger a similar growth in Linux user
base..
Knoppix - no need to do a full install or repartition the hard drive,
just plug in the CD and a USB drive, and you have Linux.
VMWare Player - Suddenly, any windows user can install a fully
functional, fully configured Linux system on their desktop, without
losing Windows XP functionality.
AMD-64 - Microsoft delayed the deployment of 32 bit PCs for almost 10
years, and by the time NT was finally stable (NT 4.0 with SP3), Linux
already had support for 64 bit Alpha, MIPS, Ultrasparc, and soon after,
PowerPC. When AMD came out with a 32/64 bit chip, HP decided not to
wait for Microsoft. To establish a market, they sold the machine with
Windows, but tested and supported it with Linux, by choosing Linux
oriented hardware components and providing drivers for new hardware.
Broadband Internet - Instead of going to retail stores, which
irregularly stocked Linux inventory and frequently had out of date
version, Linux could be downloaded from distributors over cable-modems
and DSL lines at rates up to 1 megabyte per second. A CD sized file
could be downloaded in an hour, a DVD sized file could be downloaded in
about 4 hours.
Linux appliances - in the datacenter and in the home, Linux was
establishing itself as a very strong player. It was reliable, secure,
and barely needed attention. The desktop distributions were loaded to
the gills with OSS applications.
The final driver may end up being Micrososft itself:
Windows XP -force feed: When XP was released, Micrososft came to it's
corporate customers and demand that they immediately sign a contract
committing them to triple the monthly payments. If they refused, or
even delayed, they were told that they would be "on their own", getting
no support of any kind. Microsoft didn't tell them that everyone would
be getting update services. As a result of this tactic, nearly all
major Microsoft customers have made plans to migrate to Linux and have
implemented steps toward that transition, without alerting Microsoft.
The OEMs have notices this trend, and have converted nearly all of
their lines to "Sold with Windows, Ready for Linux" (SWW-RFL). The key
feature, one which has lead to increased demand, being RFL.
Longhorn/Vista: Microsoft almost lost control of the market when they
released NT. It needed expensive hardware upgrades including increased
memory and hard drive space. Even though it was announced an 1992 and
was to be delivered in 1993, it wasn't even stable enough for general
use until late 1997, and didn't meet it's original promises until 2003
(windows XP). If a contractor promised to build you a house in a year,
and didn't deliver a livable functional house until 10 years later,
would you hire him again?
In 1993, Linux was stable, secure, and functional, but it as hard to
install. You had to purchase equipment from a "compatibility list"
that could be printed on the back of a VCR sized box. You had to
configure it yourself, manually. If you tried to push the performance
of the hardware too far, like pushing the resolution of the monitor, it
could catch fire. It had most of the features of a Sun SparcStation,
and even looked like one from a distance.
In 2006, Linux is stable, secure, functional, and can be installed on
about 80% of the computers sold in the last 2 years. A broad spectrum
of applications is now available, both in Open Source and in Commercial
forms. Most new applicatiotns are now offered in Windows and Linux
versions, and most 64 bit version were only offered in Linux versions.
Hadron Quark
I think, or hope, that you mean a higher% increase : relative to their
own previous footprint.
> be more *nix devices deployed than Windows devices, and most people
> won't even know they are using Linux. Perhaps if Linus insisted that
Err, if its on a server no.
> Linux trademark and logo be used on all devices that use Linux, that
> would change.
A servers job is to sit their and do a job. It doesnt wave its arms and
say "linux just relivered your email".
>
> Most people spend as much as 80% of their time interacting with web
> applications hosted by or connected to Linux/Unix systems.
uhuh. And so what? even if it was true.
>
> And yet, the Windows "Web" APIs limit the user to less than 5% of the
> power available through Unix systems.
Facts please? Links? Bullshit.
>
> AJAX and OSS APIs are making it much easier to get the full
> capabilities of Linux regardless of the desktop. In many ways, OSS is
> invading the desktop. Firefox, OpenOffice, and so on.
How is Firefox "OSS" in that it is promoting GNUS/Linux? Most windows
users that use it have no idea that it also runs on "Linux".
>
> I was surprised at the "single digit" rate. I'm also curious as to
> which metric he was referring. Perhaps he was talking about the number
> of machines sold with Linux (only) preinstalled.
I hope not. Otherwise a few of his fingers will need something else to do.
>
> I also agree with Eric Raymond, the "open-source only" mentality has
> given way to a more pragmatic approach to coexistence with commercial
> software.
What "pragmatic" approach? Fact : Opens source is great : if and only if
the majority of skilled developers choose to back it. Look at Linux
sound/MM to see how clever people fall out and cant agree on a standard.
>
> The one thing that always comes to mind, is the experience of being
> actively involved (and even ridiculed for) in the commercialization of
> the Internet. The "smart money" was backing Netware IPX/SPX, and
> Microsoft NetBIOS. The TCP/IP protocol was rarely touted by vendors
> and usually reluctantly shown only when a customer insisted.
Yawn. In my day etc ....
>
> But then one day, Mosaic 2.0 came out and over 200,000 copies were
> downloaded in less than a week. Counts using cookies (just added to
> Mosaic 2.0) showed that around 2 million people were using the Internet
> for web access. That was more than AOL, Prodigy, and Compuserve at the
> time. Even more interesting, market metrics showed that the Internet
> user base was doubling in size every 4 months. Within 16 months, that
> 2 million users had become 32 million users. That was more than all
> other services COMBINED.
In my day ..... And how many clients were using a linux client?
>
> If you weren't actively involved, you would never have predicted this
> kind of phenominal growth. You would never have predicted the impact
> that the "Internet" would have on our culture.
I did. And I knew at the time that the only platform to bring it to the
masses at that time was a shitty os called "windows". Sigh.
>
> But if you knew the problems of getting connected in 1991, and you
> understood the network of BBS operators who had switched to TCP/IP in
> 1992 and 1993, and you understood the ease of connecting made possible
> by trumpet winsock and Mosaic at the end of 1993, you knew that by
> 1994, the numbers would be crazy. And if you knew that MCI had agreed
> to provide a commercial TCP/IP backbone, and connect that to corporate
> users, you knew that the corporate market would explode.
So where were you to impede the Windows onslaught? Oh, I know.
>
> So here we are, 12 years later, and there are some fundamental triggers
> that appear to be about to trigger a similar growth in Linux user
> base..
Like what? The *only* hope we have as Linux advocates have is to
campaign for OpenGL games and an OS which comes equipped to install on
all PCs as we know it.
>
> Knoppix - no need to do a full install or repartition the hard drive,
> just plug in the CD and a USB drive, and you have Linux.
Bullshit. Does it talk with root access to the internal drives? No? oh
dear me.
>
> VMWare Player - Suddenly, any windows user can install a fully
> functional, fully configured Linux system on their desktop, without
> losing Windows XP functionality.
But Xp is so shit, are you sggesting for even one minute that that it
can run "linux" as a child process? Hmmm.
> Linux appliances - in the datacenter and in the home, Linux was
> establishing itself as a very strong player. It was reliable, secure,
> and barely needed attention. The desktop distributions were loaded to
> the gills with OSS applications.
Like what? Open Office is cool, I agree. Games? Sync progs (multisync is
half assed). What is the "killer app"?
>
> In 2006, Linux is stable, secure, functional, and can be installed on
> about 80% of the computers sold in the last 2 years. A broad spectrum
> of applications is now available, both in Open Source and in Commercial
> forms. Most new applicatiotns are now offered in Windows and Linux
> versions, and most 64 bit version were only offered in Linux versions.
>
Linux needs to be more than "80%" sure. It needs killer apps. It needs
"wizards".
What it really needs is real people with real experience telling people
how good it is : not dreamers.
John Bailo
> "Adoption of the Linux desktop is more likely in emerging markets where
> there is no legacy," Hohndel said.
>
> Raymond got riled up as he proclaimed what he thought was necessary to
> be done for desktop Linux to be successful.
Anyone using Google is "using" Linux.
Anyone using Firefox is using OSS.
Number of people using Firefox to access Google.
A lot.
End of story.
news.cogeco.ca
> So OK. Why do we have a 70%/25%/5% breakdown of Apache/IIS/other?
http://www.port80software.com/surveys/top1000webservers/
Microsoft IIS Servers 53.7% of fortune 1000 Web Sites (may 2005)
Microsoft IIS 5.0 38.5%
Microsoft IIS 6.0 12.8%
Microsoft IIS 4.0 2.4%
Netscape 10.8%
Enterprise 6.0 5.5%
Enterprise 4.1 3.9%
Enterprise 3.8 0.9%
Enterprise 4.0 .3%
Other .2%
Other Servers 12%
Sun One 2.6%
Lotus Domino 1.5%
IBM .9%
WebLogic .7%
WebSphere .6%
Zeus .1%
Other 2.9%
Unknown 3.5%
Apache 22.7%
Apache 1.3.27 3.3%
Apache 2.0.48 1.2%
Apache 2.0.50 1.3%
Apache 1.3.26 1.0%
Apache 1.3.29 1.0%
Apache 1.3.31 1.0%
Apache 1.3.33 1.0%
Apache 1.3.28 0.7%
Apache 1.3.20 0.5%
Apache 1.3.12 0.4%
Apache 1.3.19 0.4%
Apache 2.0.40 0.4%
Apache 2.0.52 0.4%
Apache 1.3.9 0.3%
Apache 2.0.49 0.3%
Apache 2.0.44 0.3%
Apache 2.0.48 0.3%
Apache Coyote 0.4%
Apache Tomcat 0.2%
Apache Other 4.7%
Apache Variants 3.8%
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:o6lsr3-
> Oh, that's right, all of those websites must be running Apache on
> Win2003 server on an experimental basis. Silly, silly me.
Dishonest, dishonest you.
Windows IIS owns 53.7% of the server market and <HAS TAKEN IT ALL FROM
UNIX/LINUX)
Meanwhile Linux has done nothing but displace Unix.
WINDOWS IS USED BY THE MAJORITY OF SERVERS, while LINIX IS REJECTED BY 78%
of all Fortune 1000 server farms.
Poor, self deluded Linux proponents. Let them suck on their little Linux
Shit Sticks until they turn brown.
John Bailo
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
> news:o6lsr3-
>> So OK. Why do we have a 70%/25%/5% breakdown of Apache/IIS/other?
>
> http://www.port80software.com/surveys/top1000webservers/
>
> Microsoft IIS Servers 53.7% of fortune 1000 Web Sites (may 2005)
> Microsoft IIS 5.0 38.5%
> Microsoft IIS 6.0 12.8%
> Microsoft IIS 4.0 2.4%
If you include each and every little IIS server that is set up by
default, yes.
If you include production web servers that actually do something.
Then. No.
news.cogeco.ca
"Rex Ballard" <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Hohndel predicted that the embedded market will be 80 percent Linux in
> the next five years.
While Microsoft continues it's dominance of the visible world, Linux Losers
are beginning to content themselves that their Pet Operating system will be
running on the CPU's in thier shoes, and controlling their self cleaning cat
litter boxes.
Ahahahahahahahahahah.... Linux <= Shit on a Stick.
John A. Bailo
Eat up.
--
Texeme Construct
GreyCloud
DFS
> All that needs to happen is that enough corporations put money behind
> Linux/GNU, there's a large enough user base, to achieve a critical
> mass. Once there's enough momentum such that more and more companies
> release hardware drivers and commercial software to run on linux,
> then there'll be progress.
That's a lot of ifs. The big problem now is cheapskate Linux/OSS users.
They claim their software is valuable, but they refuse to pay for it.
> The numbers in the short term aren't so critical.
Short-term in 1999 has a way of becoming short-term in 2006, doesn't it?
Kier
> "Rex Ballard" <rex.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>> Knoppix - no need to do a full install or repartition the hard drive,
>> just plug in the CD and a USB drive, and you have Linux.
>
> Bullshit. Does it talk with root access to the internal drives? No? oh
> dear me.
What on Earth are you talking about? Do you mean you can't get write
access to your drives? If so, you're wrong.
--
Kier
The Ghost In The Machine
<mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote
on Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:45:07 -0600
<stidnVaSc6_MQHbZ...@bresnan.com>:
What about it? :-) Does it run on PC's yet? :-)
http://www.openvms.org/ actually links into HP (logical
enough, considering DEC's history). A little digging
got to
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html
which among other things mentions VAX, Alpha, and what I'm
going to call the rx system series (HP calls it "OpenVMS
Integrity", but the numbers run from rx1600 to rx8620).
A little more digging got me into "Entry-level OpenVMS
servers" using Itanium; these are 1U, 2U, or 4U rackmountables:
http://h20341.www2.hp.com/integrity/cache/331424-0-0-0-121.html
This is getting interesting, but I'll admit to some
curiosity as to why OpenVMS couldn't be put on, say,
an Athlon. What's missing?
The Ghost In The Machine
<val...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote
on Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:10:35 +0100
<pan.2006.08.23....@tiscali.co.uk>:
Welcome to the New DRM Order. In order to gain information
to your drives, you will have to e-sign an electronic
affidavit provided by the drive manufacturer and by
Microsoft. This affidavit is for checking to ensure that
you are the Genuine Owner(tm) of those drives, prior to
modifying them.
Once the drives are enabled for modification, the drives
will be locked out for other uses until your modifications
are complete.
Thank you for using Microsoft Windows Vista(tm), the OS
That Will Solve Everything(tm).
(Actual usable software not included. Product may
vary from picture shown. Not for use on non-desktops.
May randomly decide to hang, crash, or give incorrect data.
May decide to call Microsoft for updates and then reboot
at random times.)
GreyCloud
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, GreyCloud
> <mi...@cumulus.com>
> wrote
> on Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:45:07 -0600
> <stidnVaSc6_MQHbZ...@bresnan.com>:
>
>>news.cogeco.ca wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
>>>news:67rhr3-
>>>
>>>
>>>>No doubt coogeecoo is referring to the SCO suit, which
>>>>alleges that Linux somehow stole some code from IBM
>>>>and incorporate it into its kernel. AIUI this suit
>>>>is now more or less dead, as is SCO... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>That's not what I was referring to, but you are correct, SCO is dead.
>>>Virtually every Unix variant that has been developed over the years is dead.
>>>
>>>Unix proponents just keep rewriting the same OS filth in a vain hope that
>>>some day people will actually be stupid enough to run that Shit OS.
>>>
>>>Sorry.. It ain't happening. Unix like Linux is just shit on a stick.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Well, it is better than windows of any variant.
>>But what about OpenVMS?
>>
>
>
> What about it? :-) Does it run on PC's yet? :-)
Yep... It is called Charon VAX. But it costs a lot of money.
>
> http://www.openvms.org/ actually links into HP (logical
> enough, considering DEC's history). A little digging
> got to
>
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html
>
> which among other things mentions VAX, Alpha, and what I'm
> going to call the rx system series (HP calls it "OpenVMS
> Integrity", but the numbers run from rx1600 to rx8620).
>
> A little more digging got me into "Entry-level OpenVMS
> servers" using Itanium; these are 1U, 2U, or 4U rackmountables:
>
> http://h20341.www2.hp.com/integrity/cache/331424-0-0-0-121.html
>
> This is getting interesting, but I'll admit to some
> curiosity as to why OpenVMS couldn't be put on, say,
> an Athlon. What's missing?
>
Corporate heads at HP are waiting for Intel to solve a few problems left
with the Itanic chip. HP doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to admit
to a very costly mistake and just port to AMD. Besides, the
stockholders after that will want their heads on a silver platter.
Thufir
> From: DFS <nospam@dfs_.com>
> Subject: Re: Suse CTO says linux' desktop market share in 5 years will be
> single digits
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
>
> hawat....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> All that needs to happen is that enough corporations put money behind
>> Linux/GNU, there's a large enough user base, to achieve a critical
>> mass. Once there's enough momentum such that more and more companies
>> release hardware drivers and commercial software to run on linux,
>> then there'll be progress.
>
> That's a lot of ifs. The big problem now is cheapskate Linux/OSS users.
> They claim their software is valuable, but they refuse to pay for it.
Yup. However, one of the interesting shifts recently is Novell and SuSE.
For companies, there's a multitude of options which include technical
support. That competition is what matters, not the product itself.
Were there multiple companies selling Windows variants, there probably
never would've been linux.
>> The numbers in the short term aren't so critical.
>
> Short-term in 1999 has a way of becoming short-term in 2006, doesn't it?
It depends how you define short term ;)
The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
a tipping point.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
Thufir
[...]
> How is Firefox "OSS" in that it is promoting GNUS/Linux? Most windows
> users that use it have no idea that it also runs on "Linux".
Firefox is OSS, as is Linux. It's not a question of Linux versus
Microsoft, really, but OSS versus closed source. Linux just happens to be
OSS, that's all.
In fact, the only reason Microsoft started giving away IE was due to
concern that netscape would evolve into an OS, replacing windows. Hence,
the browser wars.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
news.cogeco.ca
with the Itanic chip.
Intel thought that C could optimize well enough to allow the compiler
generated code tree to be efficiently mapped onto 4 co-executing, register
sharing cores.
It can be done of course, but only done well for a few instructions and then
the slow boats begin to leave wakes that are hard to fill.
And then of course the instruction set isn't 80x86 compatible. So they rely
on a PASM cross assembler to do the conversion. So sad that the 80x86
instruction set is so horribly grown together and weedy.
Microsoft is side stepping this issue by the introduction of DotNet, PASM
writ big.
news.cogeco.ca
"Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
> a tipping point.
Increasing in what exactly?
Linux is losing market share against Windows. 5 years ago Linux
proponents claimed that Linux had 2% of the desk top market. Now Linux has
under 2%.
All Linux is doing is managing to put SUN and SCO out of business.
Like all versions of Unix that came before, the only thing it manages to
do well is eat it's own parents in an ever shrinking marketplace that is
eaten by Microsoft.
And this is the way it always will be as long as Linux ShitLickers
continue to suck on their command line driven Linux ShitSickles.
news.cogeco.ca
> Welcome to the New DRM Order. In order to gain information
> to your drives, you will have to e-sign an electronic
> affidavit provided by the drive manufacturer and by
> Microsoft. This affidavit is for checking to ensure that
> you are the Genuine Owner(tm) of those drives, prior to
> modifying them.
The alternative is to continue to allow you to steal the intellecutal work
of others through the duplication of video, audio, books, and all other
copyrighted material.
You see in a capitalist system in the information age, the flow of
information must be restricted to only those who have the money to pay for
it's consumption.
Anything else is pure communism.
news.cogeco.ca
> concern that netscape would evolve into an OS, replacing windows. Hence,
> the browser wars.
Microsoft won that war quite handily, by using it's place of dominence in
the OS market to subsidize it's products in the Browser market.
Now the customer has benefitted greatly from this move by Microsoft.
Thank God the Godless Communists in the Klinton Administration were thrown
out of office before they managed to destroy Microsoft through the
threatened breakup of the company under the false claim of monopoly.
Our great leader George Bush put an end to that case as soon as he came
into office. As he said - what's good for Microsoft is good for AmeriKKKa.
Mark Kent
news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> espoused:
>
> "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
>> a tipping point.
>
> Increasing in what exactly?
>
Pretty much everything, I think. Desktop is probably the biggest
growing area, as thankfully, governments all over the world are adopting
floss & odf, thus enabling anyone to access government (ie., their own)
information on any platform, rather than being restricted to a platform
supplied by some foreign company.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
You can write a small letter to Grandma in the filename.
-- Forbes Burkowski, CS, University of Washington
Thufir
> begin oe_protect.scr
> news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> espoused:
> >
> > "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
> >> a tipping point.
> >
> > Increasing in what exactly?
> >
>
> Pretty much everything, I think. Desktop is probably the biggest
> growing area, as thankfully, governments all over the world are adopting
> floss & odf, thus enabling anyone to access government (ie., their own)
> information on any platform, rather than being restricted to a platform
> supplied by some foreign company.
Although I did just read that linksys stopped putting linux into their
wrt54g/whatever routers :(
While it's not possible to reliably quantify linux numbers, what can be
quantified are the business models surrounding linux. They're
diversity is increasing, as is the total dollar amount connected with
linux (again, Novell and SuSE being the most recent news).
-Thufir
yttrx
Hello, PLAGIARIZER.
I'm sure you have some material to steal and put off as your own somewhere,
don't you?
-----yttrx
yttrx
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
> news:qtbur3-
>> Welcome to the New DRM Order. In order to gain information
>> to your drives, you will have to e-sign an electronic
>> affidavit provided by the drive manufacturer and by
>> Microsoft. This affidavit is for checking to ensure that
>> you are the Genuine Owner(tm) of those drives, prior to
>> modifying them.
>
> The alternative is to continue to allow you to steal the intellecutal work
> of others through the duplication of video, audio, books, and all other
> copyrighted material.
You stole the intellectual work of others by PLAGIARIZING THEM, now didnt
you?
You steal other people's material and pass it off as your own.
I think you don't have any points to make around here, thief.
-----yttrx
yttrx
>
> "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
>> a tipping point.
>
> Increasing in what exactly?
>
Your theft of other people's material of course!
You're plagiarizer, and thus should never be taken remotely seriously
by anyone.
-----yttrx
Thufir
> From: news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Suse CTO says linux' desktop market share in 5 years will be
> single digits
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
>
>
So, conceivably, on certain hardware, DotNet could outperform native
apps!?
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
Thufir
> From: news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Suse CTO says linux' desktop market share in 5 years will be
> single digits
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
>
>
> "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
>> a tipping point.
>
> Increasing in what exactly?
>
> Linux is losing market share against Windows. 5 years ago Linux
> proponents claimed that Linux had 2% of the desk top market. Now Linux has
> under 2%.
How are you defining increasing?
The number of linux users is, no doubt, increasing. Perhaps not the
ratio, dunno. Time to cite some sources! Very possibly the ratio is
increasing, it's just hard to quantify.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
Thufir
> From: news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Suse CTO says linux' desktop market share in 5 years will be
> single digits
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
>
>
> "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> In fact, the only reason Microsoft started giving away IE was due to
>> concern that netscape would evolve into an OS, replacing windows. Hence,
>> the browser wars.
>
> Microsoft won that war quite handily, by using it's place of dominence in
> the OS market to subsidize it's products in the Browser market.
[...]
they won the battle, the war has yet to be resolved.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
GreyCloud
The Ghost In The Machine
<hawat....@gmail.com>
wrote
on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:32:53 GMT
<Pine.LNX.4.64.06...@neenxvf.ubzryvahk.bet>:
Define "Linux user". Is it:
[1] the user of a desktop [*] box which only has Linux on it?
[2] the user of a desktop box which usually runs Linux but is
dual-bootable to Windows?
[3] the user of a desktop box which usually runs Windows but can
dual-boot to Linux?
[4] the user of a desktop box which runs coLinux?
[5] the user of a desktop box which runs native Windows and
Linux using Vmware?
[6] the user of a desktop box which runs Windows except when the
user slips in a custom Livedisc?
[7] the user of a Linux/Apache server box (using IE)?
[8] the user of a cell phone which has a Linux kernel?
[9] the user, if one can call it such, of an automatic monitoring
system which runs Linux and sends messages to a database box?
[10] one of the users of a big centralized LInux server?
No doubt [1]-[3] capture 95%+ of the scenarios but I do wonder:
how do we properly define this so that the boundaries don't
outstrip the categories? :-)
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
suggests Windows' web server share is increasing primarily
because of the GoDaddy switch, but spun right it could
lead to increased market share on the desktop as well
as confused users decide they need to use IE to access
their favorite websites. Of course this is not desktop,
and I for one would think that the probability is rather
low, since the reverse -- switching to Linux to access
Linux-based servers -- is clearly not working, even were
it necessary since Firefox runs fine on Windows.
(Not that coogeecoo has a clue anyway, but a cite definitely
would be nice. :-) )
[*] includes laptops and notebooks as well.
Ivan Drago
casioc...@gmail.com wrote:
> Oh man. It'll take forever.
>
> "For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
> in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
> percent range."
>
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061
Today desktop usage for lintard OS is 0.36 percent. If it increase by
10x then it will be 3%. That is very big IF. Funny how 3x as much
people use Windows ME than linsux.
http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/2006/08/21/9697-percent-of-web-users-run-microsoft-windows/
Rank OS %
1 Windows XP 86.80
2 Windows 2000 6.09
3 Windows 98 2.68
4 Macintosh 2.32
5 Windows ME 1.09
6 Linux 0.36
Peter Köhlmann
>
> casioc...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Oh man. It'll take forever.
>>
>> "For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits
>> in five years; in emerging markets it will be in the 15 percent to 20
>> percent range."
>>
>> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061
>
> Today desktop usage for lintard OS is 0.36 percent. If it increase by
> 10x then it will be 3%. That is very big IF. Funny how 3x as much
> people use Windows ME than linsux.
>
< snip >
Poor "linux-sux"
May I suggest you swallow a fly or two?
That way you have at least some brain, although not in your head
--
You're not my type. For that matter, you're not even my species
Tom Wilson
> news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Our great leader George Bush put an end to that case as soon as he came
>> into office. As he said - what's good for Microsoft is good for AmeriKKKa.
>>
>
> Hello, PLAGIARIZER.
>
> I'm sure you have some material to steal and put off as your own somewhere,
> don't you?
Toss-up as to whether this might be text or the 32 bit assembly he
promised to show. ;)
--
Tom Wilson: Who hasn't posted here since 2002 and
sees that nothing really has changed :)
Tom Wilson
Judging by the stagnation of IE and what FireFox and Opera have
accomplished, I'd say they've lost their gains.
The Ghost In The Machine
<t...@goliath.internal.lan>
wrote
on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:34:16 -0400
<pan.2006.08.24....@goliath.internal.lan>:
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:32:54 +0000, Thufir wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, news.cogeco.ca wrote:
>>
>>> From: news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com>
>
>>> Microsoft won that war quite handily, by using it's place
>>> of dominence in the OS market to subsidize it's products
>>> in the Browser market.
>> [...]
>>
>> they won the battle, the war has yet to be resolved.
>
> Judging by the stagnation of IE and what FireFox and Opera have
> accomplished, I'd say they've lost their gains.
Some of them. Netscape 3 was at one point quite dominant.
(That was well before IE muscled in and took over, of course.
I'll admit I'm going to have to look at exactly how long that
took -- it might give us an idea of how fast Firefox will
take the market back.)
>
> --
> Tom Wilson: Who hasn't posted here since 2002 and
> sees that nothing really has changed :)
>
Welcome back to the past. :-) The main difference is that
the verbiage is slightly less creative now as most of the
regs say "yeah, we've heard it before now FOAD" or some
variant thereof, if they don't just say "*plonk*".
Thufir
[...]
>>> Increasing in what exactly?
>>>
>>> Linux is losing market share against Windows. 5 years ago Linux
>>> proponents claimed that Linux had 2% of the desk top market. Now Linux has
>>> under 2%.
>>
>> How are you defining increasing?
>>
>> The number of linux users is, no doubt, increasing. Perhaps not the
>> ratio, dunno. Time to cite some sources! Very possibly the ratio is
>> increasing, it's just hard to quantify.
>>
>
> Define "Linux user". Is it:
I was counting people who directly use linux, but good point, that was an
assumption on my part. It also gets murky with devices which run linux,
but which fact is invisible to the user.
--
Thufir
<http://hawat.thufir.googlepages.com/>
Rex Ballard
news.cogeco.ca wrote:
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
> news:qtbur3-
> > Welcome to the New DRM Order. In order to gain information
> > to your drives, you will have to e-sign an electronic
> > affidavit provided by the drive manufacturer and by
> > Microsoft. This affidavit is for checking to ensure that
> > you are the Genuine Owner(tm) of those drives, prior to
> > modifying them.
That could kill of the demand for Vista in a heartbeat.
> The alternative is to continue to allow you to steal the intellecutal work
> of others through the duplication of video, audio, books, and all other
> copyrighted material.
That's one way of looking at it. Microsoft's way.
The other way of looking at it is that it's my hardware, my paycheck
buying the software, my hard worked hours being spent being productive,
or being wasted over a bunch of DRM nonsense based on possibility that
someone might use a Linux box to publish unencrypted video content.
But appearantly it's OK to publish the encrypted copy from a Windows
machine?
Remember when DRM was thi big buggabo and they tried to claim that
Linux would allow people to pirate video, and ME became a
do-it-yourself piracy machine?
The DOJ/EU and Asia might even look at this as yet another attempt to
illegally maintain and extend the monopoly.
> You see in a capitalist system in the information age, the flow of
> information must be restricted to only those who have the money to pay for
> it's consumption.
I see, so my information could flow to anyone who is willing to pay for
it. And who will they pay? Microsoft? Me? ASCAP? BMI? What if I
don't want my information sold to someone else. (just taking what you
said literally).
> Anything else is pure communism.
That's a view that sounds more like Fascism to me.
Mark Kent
Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> espoused:
> Mark Kent wrote:
>> begin oe_protect.scr
>> news.cogeco.ca <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> espoused:
>> >
>> > "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> The bottom line is that linux use is increasing, and will eventually reach
>> >> a tipping point.
>> >
>> > Increasing in what exactly?
>> >
>>
>> Pretty much everything, I think. Desktop is probably the biggest
>> growing area, as thankfully, governments all over the world are adopting
>> floss & odf, thus enabling anyone to access government (ie., their own)
>> information on any platform, rather than being restricted to a platform
>> supplied by some foreign company.
> [...]
>
> Although I did just read that linksys stopped putting linux into their
> wrt54g/whatever routers :(
No, you can still buy the wrt54gl. What nobody remarks on is that the
"new" wrt54g lacks most of the capabilities of the linux version, it's
not an adsl terminating box, it's got no dhcp servers or dns forwarders
or even an ethernet switch, it's /only/ a WAP, and nothing more. The
previous version gives you /far more/ for your money.
The two are /not/ comparable, they are quite different devices, and it
is deeply disingenuous of Cisco to brand them as the same thing.
Additionally, vxworks is likely to disappear, as the supplier is moving
to Linux anyway. Linux is likely to be the dominant embedded OS within
5 years.
>
> While it's not possible to reliably quantify linux numbers, what can be
> quantified are the business models surrounding linux. They're
> diversity is increasing, as is the total dollar amount connected with
> linux (again, Novell and SuSE being the most recent news).
>
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Your reasoning powers are good, and you are a fairly good planner.
news.cogeco.ca
> apps!?
That depends on how well they are written and how good the compiler is.
Since the inception of PASM cross assemblers, the penalty has been about 15%
lower performance than the same code compiled with native compilers.
Tests with DotNet. show that this 15% figure hasn't changed since that time.
Now C compiles to executables that are 200 to 400 times slower than direct
assembler.
DotNet translation of PASM assembler should then be 1.15 times slower than
hand optimized code, compared to 2 to 4 times slower than native code
compiled from C/C++ or any other "optimizing" compiler.
news.cogeco.ca
The reason is clear. That CPU has no sales. How many did Intel sell last
year? 10,000?
Nothing.
news.cogeco.ca
Desktop market share, and more generally computer market share. So that
make it relative to the total number of users of computers.
news.cogeco.ca
The war is over. Mopping up dissenters is all that is left.
news.cogeco.ca
"Tom Wilson" <t...@goliath.internal.lan> wrote in message
> Judging by the stagnation of IE and what FireFox and Opera have
> accomplished, I'd say they've lost their gains.
Ahahahaha..... Firefox isn't horrible, but it's slow and inferior to
Explorer.
Havent tried opera.
I have seen some of the soruce code for Mozilla - specifically the GIF
decompression section.
Written by an incompetent.
Peter Köhlmann
>
> "Thufir" <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> So, conceivably, on certain hardware, DotNet could outperform native
>> apps!?
>
> That depends on how well they are written and how good the compiler is.
>
> Since the inception of PASM cross assemblers, the penalty has been about
> 15% lower performance than the same code compiled with native compilers.
>
> Tests with DotNet. show that this 15% figure hasn't changed since that
> time.
>
> Now C compiles to executables that are 200 to 400 times slower than direct
> assembler.
>
You are certainly on idiot and know jack shit about compilers/assemblers
Even VB is not that slow
--
If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous.
Peter Köhlmann
It *has* sales. Just not in the market where Windows exists.
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
Form follows malfunction.
Ivan Drago
More useless dribble from nazi dolt named KKKoalman.
Hadron Quark
> news.cogeco.ca wrote:
>> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
>> news:qtbur3-
>> > Welcome to the New DRM Order. In order to gain information
>> > to your drives, you will have to e-sign an electronic
>> > affidavit provided by the drive manufacturer and by
>> > Microsoft. This affidavit is for checking to ensure that
>> > you are the Genuine Owner(tm) of those drives, prior to
>> > modifying them.
>
> That could kill of the demand for Vista in a heartbeat.
>
Snigger. YOu really believe this dont you? Linux has 0.25% of the
desktop market. One in every 400 people possibly use it. And you believe
that DRM will kill off Windows? LOL. The only way Linux will get more
popular is when real users, real advocates do their job. Oh, and someone
kills off a few hundred of the distros and Window Managers and forces
the skill base to concentrate on getting real SW working properly.
DFS
> "Rex Ballard" <rex.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>> That could kill of the demand for Vista in a heartbeat.
>
> Snigger. YOu really believe this dont you?
Rex the nutcase says absurd things like this so that, in the very remote
chance that it happens, he can refer back to 10-year old cola posts and
claim he foretold of the death of Windows. He likes to claim credit for all
kinds of things he has nothing to do with.
> Linux has 0.25% of the desktop market. One in every 400 people possibly
> use it.
I'm beginning to wonder if it's that high. I've never, not once, seen Linux
"in the wild": on a laptop in a bookstore/streetcorner cafe/airplane, on a
retail store register, on a TV show, etc.
Hadron Quark
> Hadron Quark wrote:
>> "Rex Ballard" <rex.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> That could kill of the demand for Vista in a heartbeat.
>>
>> Snigger. YOu really believe this dont you?
>
> Rex the nutcase says absurd things like this so that, in the very remote
> chance that it happens, he can refer back to 10-year old cola posts and
> claim he foretold of the death of Windows. He likes to claim credit for all
> kinds of things he has nothing to do with.
>
>
>
>
>> Linux has 0.25% of the desktop market. One in every 400 people possibly
>> use it.
>
> I'm beginning to wonder if it's that high. I've never, not once, seen Linux
> "in the wild": on a laptop in a bookstore/streetcorner cafe/airplane, on a
> retail store register, on a TV show, etc.
>
Me neither. And someone suggested it was because I was "in America". He
was, of course, totally wrong about that too. The only Linux machine I
ever saw in the wild was when we had one for porting a windows app too
using some win32 emulation SW. It never worked properly as the
middleware kept crashing X. The company dolt got that job : no one else
saw it as good cv for some reason.
John Bailo
> However I travel a LOT and I have yet to see ANYONE using Linux on their
There's plenty of photos at Flickr...and probably other image sites.
http://flickr.com/photos/fensterbme/64985745/
http://flickr.com/photos/fbar/210872842/
http://flickr.com/photos/jasonrallen/94585831/
--
Texeme Construct