Why Linux Could Be Your Next Digital Recording Studio.
Hans Steckler
other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools
and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial
studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become
the standard. Here is one such studio.
http://multitrack.us/equipment.html
http://multitrack.us/linux.html
Here are some reasons why Linux is superior to closed source applications
like Pootools.
http://blog.audiojungle.net/resources/why-linux-could-be-your-next-
digital-recording-studio/
///// quote \\\\\\
1. What Do Musicians Lose by Using Linux?
Let me say at the outset that Linux will not be the best option for
everyone. You may already be comfortable with Windows or Mac OS X, and
have invested in a considerable amount of software that you have taken
time to learn. And Linux is often regarded as a system for geeks. There
is some truth in that, though it’s becoming easier to use and set up
every year.
If you have never used Linux before, it may feel unfamiliar, especially
once you start to look under the hood. And most of the audio programs you
are familiar with (Audacity being one of the only exceptions) will not
have a Linux version. There may be ways of getting some Windows programs
to run, but isn’t the point of using Linux to explore Linux software?
Undoubtedly, the biggest thing most serious recording musicians will miss
are their favorite commercial plug-ins, effects and soundfonts. Good
alternatives are available, but the best plug-ins are subject to vendor
lock-in, and those vendors aren’t making their software available for
Linux.
And on a positive note, you’ll also lose lots of restrictions. Linux
values freedom and openness. The software is free to use, free to
customize, and free to share. It is also normally free of cost.
2. Linux Gives You JACK
Most Linux software is designed to cooperate and work together. More than
this, Linux provides an entire audio infrastructure called JACK that
allows you to connect hardware and software together in ways you’ve never
dreamed of.
JACK is an audio connection kit which (as the JACK website says) “was
designed from the ground up for professional audio work, and its design
focuses on two key areas: synchronous execution of all clients, and low
latency operation.” It is a system for handling real-time, low latency
audio and MIDI.
Essentially, JACK has incredible patching abilities that allow you to
connect music hardware and software in many ways. Here are a few
suggested on the website:
* You can take the audio output of one piece of software and send it
to another (or two others).
* You can then take the output of those two other programs, and
record it back in the first program.
* You can connect a number of different applications to an audio
device.
* You can distribute audio processing across a network.
If you like the sound of JACK, but prefer to stay with Windows or Mac,
you may be able to get JACK running on your operating system of choice,
because it offers support for most operating systems. You may also like
to look at ReWire from PropellerHeads and Steinberg, which offer some of
JACK’s features.
3. A Studio On A CD
Most Linux distributions can run as a Live CD. This means that you are
able to run the entire operating system from the CD without the need for
a hard drive.
By using a Live CD, you can turn any computer into a music studio simply
by inserting the CD and restarting the computer. While traveling, you can
take your music studio with you simply by carrying a CD and external hard
drive. The possibilities are endless. Because of this portability, you
may wish to consider Linux for your secondary recording system.
CDs run much slower than hard drives, so the applications will load more
slowly. But once loaded they should run at their normal speed. Some live
CDs give you the ability to run the entire operating system from RAM. As
long as you have plenty of memory, you may end up with the most
responsive studio you’ve experienced.
Most of the Linux distributions mentioned below can be run as Live CDs.
You can create an instant recording studio by downloading the CD (of DVD)
image, burning it (if you use Nero, this tutorial may be helpful), and
rebooting your computer with the CD in your drive.
Live CDs are also a painless way to see how successfully Linux recognizes
your hardware and runs on your computer. There is no risk, because it
will not touch or alter your hard drive. Some distros include drivers
that others do not, so you may wish to try several Live CDs to see which
works best with your setup.
4. Pre-built Custom Music Systems
Setting up a computer-based recording system is a daunting task. Your
operating system needs to be tweaked for low latency, software programs
need to be downloaded and installed, and settings need to be properly
configured. With Linux, someone else does this work for you – before you
even run or install the software.
A Linux distribution is not just an operating system, but a customized
setup including software put together for a specific purpose. A music-
specific distro comes with all of the software you need preinstalled, and
all of the settings preconfigured. In other words, after installing the
operating system, you don’t have to download, install and configure your
software. It’s already there! That takes a lot of leg work out of getting
up and running with audio.
Many Linux distros have been put together with music in mind. Here are
the best of them, along with a summary from the distro’s website.
ArtistX
“ArtistX is a free live DVD which turns a common computer into a full
multimedia production studio. It contains nearly all the available free
audio, 2D and 3D graphics, and video software for the GNU/Linux computing
platform. It doesn’t need to be installed, and boots directly into a
running system without touching hard drives. The files produced with
ArtistX can be easily stored on USB devices or CD/DVD medium while it is
running.”
Ubuntu Studio
“Let Your Creativity Fly. Ubuntu Studio is aimed at the GNU/Linux audio,
video and graphic enthusiast as well as professional. We provide a suite
of the best open-source applications available for multimedia creation.
Completely free to use, modify and redistribute. Your only limitation is
your imagination.”
JackLab Audio Distribution
“A Linux-based distribution that is designed for music needs to be
flexible, powerful, yet easy and quick to use. It contain a full
production environment for media production, primarily music. For this,
the JackLab team added a Realtime Kernel version 2.6.19 to have fast
audio processing with a latency up to 1.5ms. The default audio system
will be based on the the Jack Audio Connection Kit (JACK) which is
designed for the needs of musicians and producers and gives a
professional audio/midi controlling interface.”
Musix
“It’s a 100% free multimedia operating system intended for music
production, graphic design, audio and video edition, and all kind of
tasks. It contains an enormous collection of free (as in freedom)
programs that can replace Windows. The system will boot from your CD/DVD
drive, with no need to install anything on your hard disk. Later, it can
be installed.”
64 Studio
“64 Studio is a GNU/Linux distribution tailor-made for digital content
creation, including audio, video, graphics and publishing tools. It comes
in both AMD64/Intel64 and 32-bit flavours, to run on nearly all PC
hardware. We aim to combine stability and quality with a specialised real-
time preemption kernel and the latest creative tools demanded by
multimedia artists.”
dyne:bolic
“You don’t need to install anything, you don’t even need an harddisk to
run a whole free software operating system running out of the box on your
PC! dyne:bolic is shaped on the needs of media activists, artists and
creatives as a practical tool for multimedia production: you can
manipulate and broadcast both sound and video with tools to record, edit,
encode and stream, having automatically recognized most device and
peripherals: audio, video, TV, network cards, firewire, usb and more; all
using only free software! You can employ this operating system without
the need to install anything, and if you want to run it from harddisk you
just need to copy a directory: the easiest installation ever seen!”
5. Make the Most of your Old Computer
Linux runs well on old hardware. If you are starting out with digital
recording, consider using Linux to turn your old computer into a
recording studio.
Some Linux distros specialize in working on old hardware. For example,
the dyne:bolic website claims, “It is optimized to run on slower
computers, turning them into full media stations: the minimum you need is
a pentium1 or k5 PC 64Mb RAM and IDE CD-ROM, or a modded XBOX game
console – and if you have more than one, you can easily do clusters.”
6. Outrageously Good Free Software
And finally, the topic of next week’s article: there is loads of
excellent free music software available for Linux. Arguably much better
than the free audio software for Windows we covered two weeks ago. Tune
in next week to find out.
Ty Ford
(in article <hshabr$pcu$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings other
> than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools and pay
> homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial studios
> running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become the
> standard. Here is one such studio.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Hans, your characterizations are odd.
Ty Ford
PS: Oh look, a dead horse! Let's beat it!
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA
PStamler
Even when they're right, they're wrong.
Peace,
Paul
Chris Ahlstrom
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 12:45:47 -0400, Hans Steckler wrote
> (in article <hshabr$pcu$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
>
>> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings other
>> than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools and pay
>> homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial studios
>> running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become the
>> standard. Here is one such studio.
>
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
>
> Hans, your characterizations are odd.
>
> Ty Ford
>
> PS: Oh look, a dead horse! Let's beat it!
http://frederatorblogs.com/channel_frederator/files/2009/06/beating_a_dead_horse1.gif
--
You fill a much-needed gap.
Chris Ahlstrom
> I think Linux fanatics have a lot in common with Nader supporters.
> Even when they're right, they're wrong.
Except that the OP is not a Linux fanatic. He is a troll.
--
Perfect day for scrubbing the floor and other exciting things.
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
> other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools
> and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial
> studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become
> the standard.
There is a big reason why Linux has not/is not and will not take over
from the other 2 in this respect
Real Time
Real time was reasonably easy in TOS/Win3x/Win9x/Mac Finder you
essentially wrote your own RT kernel that cooperated with the OS, this
is not possible with a multitasking pre-emptive OS since it needs to be
in control at all times, in that case you need a high resolution timer
service within the OS itself
Microsoft spent a lot of money and time in association with Steinberg to
get this right about 10 years ago, Apple hired the Opcode development
team for just the same reason and has since bought EMagic.
In Linux you have to compile your own real-time kernel and live with the
fact that not all programs work in that configuration and even more
annoyingly that most music programs do not take advantage of it, there
is a real time Linux distribution out there, granted, but it is outdated
and has an annoying habit of not working out of the box
And Linux people do not want to discuss the issue, they just go into
religious nutcase mode and start waffling on about JACK being a
ground-breaking technology that will change the face of the market, not
realising that the high latency issues with that technology make it
unusable for studio usage
Unless major distributions start shipping with an RT kernel by default
and we start seeing some industry strength software, there is no
software available on linux that would replace my old Cubase Audio
Falcon installation for instance and that thing is getting on 20 years
old, making posts like yours are just a sick joke, and an old one to
boot, when the first multitrack recorder for linux shipped in 1997 I
read a lot of articles like this, that was 13 years ago and nothing has
happened in the meantime ... except that I no longer have a linux
partition on my disk
Hans Steckler
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 12:45:47 -0400, Hans Steckler wrote (in article
> <hshabr$pcu$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
>
>> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
>> other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship
>> Pootools and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working
>> commercial studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux
>> will become the standard. Here is one such studio.
>
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
>
> Hans, your characterizations are odd.
>
> Ty Ford
>
> PS: Oh look, a dead horse! Let's beat it!
Why are my characterizations odd?
Specifically what can you do with Pootools that can't be done with Linux
and for a lot less money? I will concede that if you farm out or take in
work from other studios, it can add some extra workload because you have
to export the stems as broadcast wave files to keep the time base correct
but other than that I can do pretty much the same work with Linux based
tools. For musicians who self produce Linux has so much to offer and it's
all free. Jack for interconnectivity and Jammin for mastering are
invaluable tools that do a very good job.
I was looking through the latest Sweetwater catalog the other day and
just started adding up what a musician would have to spend in software
just to get started.
Are effects plugins from Waves really worth thousands of dollars?
What do they do differently than the LADSPA plugins other than a pretty
interface?
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ladspaworld.html
As for beating a dead horse, I would say that PooTools is starting to
decay, They have realized that they are losing customers to Logic and
Steinberg as system processing power has become more powerful.
Linux is fresh, original and maybe not for everyone but certainly good
enough for commercial level gigs.
The problem is people are ignorant about Linux's capabilities and make
wrong assumptions which leads to other people not giving Linux a try.
I would suggest you download a Linux Live DVD and try it for yourself.
It's free and won't mess around with your installed system as it runs
completely from the DVD. You might be surprised at how far Linux has come.
I'm using the new Ubuntu 10.04 and it's running fantastic here.
I have Ardour, Audacity, Jammin', Jack, rosegarden, Lillypond and other
software doing the same kinds of things you can do with your overpriced
PooTools.
Peter Larsen
> Real time was reasonably easy in TOS/Win3x/Win9x/Mac Finder you
> essentially wrote your own RT kernel that cooperated with the OS, this
> is not possible with a multitasking pre-emptive OS since it needs to
> be in control at all times, in that case you need a high resolution
> timer service within the OS itself
Ah, the Amiga is all forgotten.
> Microsoft spent a lot of money and time in association with Steinberg
But forgot to purchase the Amiga OS to get a proper multitasking kernel and
a proper taskpriority system as well as various other goodies that windows
still is woefully short of.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Chris Ahlstrom
> Unless major distributions start shipping with an RT kernel by default ...
http://sound.condorow.net/distro.html
HTH. HAND.
--
Writing is turning one's worst moments into money.
-- J.P. Donleavy
Scott Dorsey
>Olafur Gunnlaugsson wrote:
>
>> Real time was reasonably easy in TOS/Win3x/Win9x/Mac Finder you
>> essentially wrote your own RT kernel that cooperated with the OS, this
>> is not possible with a multitasking pre-emptive OS since it needs to
>> be in control at all times, in that case you need a high resolution
>> timer service within the OS itself
>
>Ah, the Amiga is all forgotten.
Actually, the real solution is an actual realtime kernal, as used by BeOS
and pSOS and the like. You make a system call, you tell the system how
long you can wait for it. The kernal prioritizes all the calls it gets so
that everybody can meet deadline. If it can't, it gives a coherent message
saying the application has broken out of realtime.
RTLinux actually does an okay job of this... it is a wacky hybrid kernal
that can take standard Unix system calls and realtime calls at the same
time and does a pretty good job of dealing with the mix.
>> Microsoft spent a lot of money and time in association with Steinberg
>
>But forgot to purchase the Amiga OS to get a proper multitasking kernel and
>a proper taskpriority system as well as various other goodies that windows
>still is woefully short of.
Windows finally has got real pre-emptive multitasking.... XP certainly does
as good a job as RSX-11 managed back in 1972, and that's saying a lot compared
with previous Windows releases. But real pre-emptive multitasking isn't
really what you want for realtime applications.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
owl
> boot, when the first multitrack recorder for linux shipped in 1997 I
> read a lot of articles like this, that was 13 years ago and nothing has
> happened in the meantime ...
The main thing that hasn't happened in the meantime is music that
doesn't suck.
Peter Larsen
> Windows finally has got real pre-emptive multitasking.... XP
> certainly does as good a job as RSX-11 managed back in 1972, and
> that's saying a lot compared with previous Windows releases.
It is not as good as Amiga OS, I think it used/s a 1976 to 1978 era kernel.
> But real pre-emptive multitasking isn't really what you want for realtime
> applications.
Amiga OS never claimed to be realtime, but it had good "near realtime"
performance, Dave Haynie wrote something about this in some contexts, and it
has a lot finer task-priority granurarity, windows has only 4 levels, it is
a clonker in comparison. What saves the day for it is what has been going on
with the hardware power and architecture.
> --scott
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Ty Ford
(in article <hshfi6$19g$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
>>
>> Hans, your characterizations are odd.
>>
>> Ty Ford
>>
>> PS: Oh look, a dead horse! Let's beat it!
>
> Why are my characterizations odd?
Prolly because, as someone else stated, you are a troll.
> I have Ardour, Audacity, Jammin', Jack, rosegarden, Lillypond and other
> software doing the same kinds of things you can do with your overpriced
> PooTools.
A pretty full blown Digi 003 is $2700 USD. Thats'
With the 003 Rack Factory Complete, you get a more affordable Pro Tools LE
studio geared for post-production and music creation, and save big. The 003
Rack Factory Complete combines the streamlined 003 Rack Factory audio/MIDI
interface with the versatile post and music expansion capabilities of the
Complete Production Toolkit, providing a highly cost-effective audio
production and 7.1 surround mixing solution.003 Rack Factory Complete puts
massive music creation and post-production power in your hands at a more
affordable price, enabling you to record, edit, and mix 7.1 surround
sessions, with up to 128 simultaneous audio tracks and 64 Instrument tracks,
and collaborate on projects with Pro Tools HD-based studios and editors. The
bundle includes an Avid 003 Rack Factory Pro Tools LE personal studio and the
Complete Production Toolkit software expansion.The Hub of Your Studio With an
extensive range of audio and MIDI I/O, high-definition audio resolution,
FireWire connectivity, the 003 Rack Factory interface enables you to attain
the same high audio production quality as commercial facilities in your own
personal or project studio. Take advantage of the plethora of I/O to connect
and monitor all of your studio equipment. The 003 Rack Factory's streamlined
design will help save space in even the most gear-packed studio, and give you
the freedom to take a professional Pro Tools LE system anywhere your creative
skills are needed �or inspired. And with over 80 powerful plug-ins, virtual
instruments, and compatible applications included, you have everything you
need (and then some) to compose, perform, record, edit, mix, and master audio
for music and desktop post production project�with truly professional
results.Powerful Software Expansion for Post and Music The Complete
Production Toolkit is the most powerful expansion option for Pro Tools LE,
greatly expanding your system's creative power and capabilities, and offering
the ultimate in post-production and m
You can spend less if you want to.
PTLE is a very powerful and cost effective tool.
Regards,
Ty Ford
philicorda
> Þann 13/05/2010 17:45, skrifaði Hans Steckler:
>> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
>> other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship
>> Pootools and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working
>> commercial studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux
>> will become the standard.
>
> There is a big reason why Linux has not/is not and will not take over
> from the other 2 in this respect
>
> Real Time
>
> Real time was reasonably easy in TOS/Win3x/Win9x/Mac Finder you
> essentially wrote your own RT kernel that cooperated with the OS, this
> is not possible with a multitasking pre-emptive OS since it needs to be
> in control at all times, in that case you need a high resolution timer
> service within the OS itself
>
> Microsoft spent a lot of money and time in association with Steinberg to
> get this right about 10 years ago, Apple hired the Opcode development
> team for just the same reason and has since bought EMagic.
For a historical insight, it's worth reading the Microsoft paper "The
Problems You're Having May Not Be the Problems You Think You're
Having" (Results from a Latency Study of Windows NT - Michael B. Jones).
One interesting point it brings up is that an operating system is only as
real time as it's drivers allow it to be. Of course, if no one has the
source code to validate the drivers and make them fully pre-emptable,
than you just have to hope you got lucky. There are Windows tools like
the DPC latency checker that help some people with this problem.
>
> In Linux you have to compile your own real-time kernel and live with the
> fact that not all programs work in that configuration and even more
> annoyingly that most music programs do not take advantage of it, there
> is a real time Linux distribution out there, granted, but it is outdated
> and has an annoying habit of not working out of the box
Actually, even Ubuntu has a prebuilt realtime kernel in the app
repository nowadays.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'not all programs work in that
configuration' or 'most music programs do not take advantage of it'. All
my jack aware applications work fine.
Even the vanilla Linux kernel is not too bad at latency nowadays, as
parts of the RT tree slowly get merged into it. Not as good as windows,
but usable.
>
> And Linux people do not want to discuss the issue, they just go into
> religious nutcase mode and start waffling on about JACK being a
> ground-breaking technology that will change the face of the market, not
> realising that the high latency issues with that technology make it
> unusable for studio usage
What are these high latency issues? I can do sub millisecond latencies
with my Delta1010 card, and don't feel the need to go much lower.
>
> Unless major distributions start shipping with an RT kernel by default
> and we start seeing some industry strength software, there is no
> software available on linux that would replace my old Cubase Audio
> Falcon installation for instance and that thing is getting on 20 years
> old, making posts like yours are just a sick joke, and an old one to
> boot, when the first multitrack recorder for linux shipped in 1997 I
> read a lot of articles like this, that was 13 years ago and nothing has
> happened in the meantime ... except that I no longer have a linux
> partition on my disk
Ah, I see. Your opinions are 13 years out of date.
Really, apart from midi (which is waiting on Ardour3), there is no
comparison between what I can do in Ardour, and what I could do on Falcon
Cubase, and I have used both. With midi, even Rosegarden is still more
advanced on the audio side that Cubase Falcon.
Just to save argument... I'm not claiming Ardour/Linux is a drop in
replacement for ProTools, or that a new user will always have an easy
time setting it up. Also, if you want decent plugins, the LinuxDsp ones
written by an ex SSL guy are essential. They are not free, but they are
native and sound good.
Scott Dorsey
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> But real pre-emptive multitasking isn't really what you want for realtime
>> applications.
>
>Amiga OS never claimed to be realtime, but it had good "near realtime"
>performance, Dave Haynie wrote something about this in some contexts, and it
>has a lot finer task-priority granurarity, windows has only 4 levels, it is
>a clonker in comparison. What saves the day for it is what has been going on
>with the hardware power and architecture.
NONE of this stuff really solves the problem the way a real RTOS does. It
all requires throwing CPU at the problem and praying that you meet deadlines.
More levels of process priority doesn't solve anything when you don't have
any way to predict what a process is going to do and how much margin it has
before it drops out of realtime.
I am very saddened at the death of BeOS but there are still plenty of others
out there.
Hans Steckler
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 14:14:30 -0400, Hans Steckler wrote (in article
> <hshfi6$19g$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
>> I have Ardour, Audacity, Jammin', Jack, rosegarden, Lillypond and other
>> software doing the same kinds of things you can do with your overpriced
>> PooTools.
>
> A pretty full blown Digi 003 is $2700 USD. Thats'
>
> With the 003 Rack Factory Complete, you get a more affordable Pro Tools
> LE studio geared for post-production and music creation, and save big.
> The 003 Rack Factory Complete combines the streamlined 003 Rack Factory
> audio/MIDI interface with the versatile post and music expansion
>
> You can spend less if you want to.
>
> PTLE is a very powerful and cost effective tool.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
And for that $2700.00 you don't even get PDC which even the least
expensive version of Cubase has.
What a ripoff.
No wonder PooTools is losing business to Logic.
As for latency, I am getting 2.2 msec with Ardour and an RME PCI card.
That is with the Linux RT kernel and I didn't have to compile anything.
All I did was select it and it was installed.
Moshe
> Really, apart from midi (which is waiting on Ardour3), there is no
> comparison between what I can do in Ardour, and what I could do on Falcon
> Cubase, and I have used both. With midi, even Rosegarden is still more
> advanced on the audio side that Cubase Falcon.
>
> Just to save argument... I'm not claiming Ardour/Linux is a drop in
> replacement for ProTools, or that a new user will always have an easy
> time setting it up. Also, if you want decent plugins, the LinuxDsp ones
> written by an ex SSL guy are essential. They are not free, but they are
> native and sound good.
For the record, I get about 3 msec or less latency with a Delta
1010 and Ardour running Jack under Ubuntu.
That is excellent BTW.
My problem with Linux is that none of my soft synths work.
Garritan, Galaxy, Ivory etc don't work.
Then there are my plugins like Sonnox, Stillwell, Ozone, Tracks
etc none of which I can make function.
Rex Ballard
> I think Linux fanatics have a lot in common with Nader supporters.
> Even when they're right, they're wrong.
The reality is that most modern audio studio equipment is actually
Linux or Unix "appliances". The Accutune, the Vocorder, and numerous
others.
Windows or Mac just provides the management console.
> Peace,
> Paul
Moshe
And guess what?
Nobody cares.
My GPS might be running Linux, I don't give a shit.
Why?
Because when I put the install CD in my PC there was no Linux
version of the software needed to manage the device.
Windows and OSX only.
The 5.0L engine in my Mustang might be using bolts from xxxyyyzzz
company.
I don't care.
My microwave might be running Unix embedded.
Again I don't care.
Neither does 99.99 percent of the earth.
Peter Larsen
> On May 13, 1:32 pm, PStamler <pstam...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> I think Linux fanatics have a lot in common with Nader supporters.
>> Even when they're right, they're wrong.
> The reality is that most modern audio studio equipment is actually
> Linux or Unix "appliances". The Accutune, the Vocorder, and numerous
> others.
Are you implying that embedded *ux provides the functionality of those
appliances?
Literature references?
> Windows or Mac just provides the management console.
And embedded *ux is the layer between the powerswitch and the appliance
firmware. Yet again the cart before the horse. They might just as well use
freedos or embedded windows CE, just how would you know? - your line of
points is as absurd as discussing whether a car assembled with a Belzer
screwdriver is better than one assembled with an alternative brand
screwdriver.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Peter Köhlmann
Thrown out from the "professional musicians", flatfish?
You *did* notice that your pretense at being absent for some time has
fooled nobody, did you?
--
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
White Spirit
> Moshe (stealing a holocaust victims name) blubbered:
> Thrown out from the "professional musicians", flatfish?
> You *did* notice that your pretense at being absent for some time has
> fooled nobody, did you?
It's also interesting that 'Moshe' stopped posting the same time that
'Hadron' did...
Hadron
What was that "White Spirit"?
More loonytune conspiracy theories from the COLA loons?
chrisv
Time for a Wintroll circle jerk, maybe? You can picture them,
swapping "war stories":
"Moshe": I called some decent, moral people "hypocrites" and "vermin"
today (wank, wank).
"Hadron": I claimed that Linux' small market share demonstrates that
there's too much choice (wank wank).
"Moshe": Did you see my racist and homophobic comments (wank wank)?
"Hadron": How about when I called someone who is clearly intelligent,
honest, and reasonable a "moron" and a "liar" (wank wank).
"Moshe": Oh, "Hadron"
Hadron": Oh, "Moshe"
(Sounds of slurping and moaning)
Hadron
> White Spirit wrote:
That's quite disgusting.
I just have one issue with it however because, even as erotic satire
written to keep you warm under your smeg encrusted penguin duvet cover,
when did I ever call an intelligent, honest or reasonable person a
hypocrite or describe them as "vermin"? Answer : I didn't. I call sleazy
COLA liars these things. You for one.
Peter Köhlmann
> chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>
>> White Spirit wrote:
>>
>>>On 14/05/2010 09:02, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>> Moshe (stealing a holocaust victims name) blubbered:
>>>
>>>> Thrown out from the "professional musicians", flatfish?
>>>
>>>> You *did* notice that your pretense at being absent for some time has
>>>> fooled nobody, did you?
>>>
>>>It's also interesting that 'Moshe' stopped posting the same time that
>>>'Hadron' did...
>>
>> Time for a Wintroll circle jerk, maybe? You can picture them,
>> swapping "war stories":
>>
>> "Moshe": I called some decent, moral people "hypocrites" and "vermin"
>> today (wank, wank).
>>
>> "Hadron": I claimed that Linux' small market share demonstrates that
>> there's too much choice (wank wank).
>>
>> "Moshe": Did you see my racist and homophobic comments (wank wank)?
>>
>> "Hadron": How about when I called someone who is clearly intelligent,
>> honest, and reasonable a "moron" and a "liar" (wank wank).
>>
>> "Moshe": Oh, "Hadron"
>>
>> Hadron": Oh, "Moshe"
>>
>> (Sounds of slurping and moaning)
>
> That's quite disgusting.
No. It is quite the truth
chrisv
>>>
>>> "Moshe": Oh, "Hadron"
>>>
>>> Hadron": Oh, "Moshe"
>>>
>>> (Sounds of slurping and moaning)
>>
>> That's quite disgusting.
I know. You both are.
Hadron
Put it away Peter. You know you're starting to look at Liarmutt's
wagging tail with a bit of a glint in your eye ....
Chris Ahlstrom
> ..when did I ever call an intelligent, honest or reasonable person a
> hypocrite or describe them as "vermin"? Answer : I didn't.
"Hadron" has indeed called intelligent, honest, and reasonable people
"hypocrites", "liars", "frauds", as a number of his victims can attest.
"Moshe" is the one that called them "vermin".
Soundhaspriority
"Hans Steckler" <steckleri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hshabr$pcu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
> other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools
> and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial
> studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become
>
distribution. A long time ago, I ported a program to System V. I am not
hostile to Linux, but I depoliticized a long time ago. I am more interested
in a green planet. But I understand why Linux people are political; it is an
egalitarian perspective. It is an appealing idea. Linux has already
achieved great success in the server area. It is also a great thing for the
"Third World", and generally, for rollout of many identical systems. Linux
has also revolutionized embedded systems, by providing a common engineering
platform.
Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet. I am a C++
programmer myself, but I still feel this way. One reason is that every time
I put up a Linux system, I have to expend much more mental energy to
maintain it. Mental energy is finite. Right now I am studying martingale
processes and the Black-Scholes equity pricing model. I have a hydrodynamic
problem in the queue. Obviously, I like to play with symbols, but symbols of
my own choosing.
Every time I look at Linux, I see improvement in the scope of the menu
systems, but they are minute and breakable compared to the all-encompassing
systems of the commercial competitors. As soon as a particular menu system
fails to do the job, the user is back in the old world of command line
options. The job of running any OS at the basic level is vast, but Microsoft
and Apple have applied immense effort to providing "wizards" that actually
run off embedded inference engines. These inference engines also have some
capability to manage the machine and get it out of trouble. I am very
appreciative of the fact that Microsoft in effect maintains my machines for
me. I am very appreciative that a 3rd party app makes backups of my boot
drives with just a few clicks.
The problem with your advocacy is that half the people you are arguing with
would like Linux to work for them. If it did work, you wouldn't have an
argument, because it wouldn't be necessary. It's not like nobody knows about
Linux; everybody does. We've all played around with it. Microsoft and Apple
need no such advocacy.
Linux developers behave as system programmers who are trying to understand
what the user needs. The problem with this is that programmers expect
everyone to think like programmers. Microsoft and Apple have design
departments that specialize in human interface, staffed by behaviorists.
These people force the requirements down on the system people. The Linux
community should adopt this approach. When they do, the success that is due
to Linux from technical excellence could conceivably be theirs.
I leave a technical comment for last. Processors provide a hardware facility
known as a "call gate" for communication between protection rings. X-Windows
runs as a user process. The guis of Microsoft and Apple run in kernel space.
So running X involves more call-gate transitions than the MS & Apple guis.
This is probably the cause of the somewhat slower gui performance of Linux,
even on high end hardware.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Moshe
I use the term "vermin" for the so called Linux advocates in COLA
ONLY.
Like you for example, Liarmutt.
The real Linux advocates wouldn't waste their time in this
cesspit.
Peter Köhlmann
No. You and flatfish are *constantly* sucking up to each other. In fact,
you guys are the only ones in COLA doing so
You two are slimy all over by now
> You know you're starting to look at Liarmutt's
> wagging tail with a bit of a glint in your eye ....
Idiot
--
Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!
Moshe
What an excellent post Bob!
Right on the money.
I, like most musicians would love to see Linux challenge the other
platforms for DAW work. Could you imagine the possibilities of
having musicians who might also be programmers during their day
gig helping to design the software?
The problem is that products like Protools, Nuendo etc are the
"defacto standards", hardware manufacturers are reluctant to
release specs so drivers for Linux can be written and software
manufacturers like Avid etc use intricate copy protection schemes
which require hardware keys etc.
It's doubtful they are going to let the specs into the wild
because it would assist the crackers.
Not that it really matters because I believe they just cracked
iLok.
I've used Linux audio programs and while they work, the Windows
and Mac counterparts are just better IMHO.
Lack of decent plugins and VSTi is the big killer for me.
Support for control surfaces is another killer for some although I
read that the DICEII chipset might have a Linux driver soon. That
would be a good thing as many of these interfaces use that chip.
Take care!
Marti van Lin
Well, waddaya think about this "masterpiece", in respond to TomB:
[quote]
> Considering that I have, on several times, pointed out your rather
> amateurish and imbecilic disregard for proper practices when
> administering Linux systems you should be thanking me, not riling me
> into pointing out more of your bullshit and word games.
[/quote]
Message-ID: <20100514...@usenet.drumscum.be>
And this coming from - Mr. knows sh1t about Linux - "Hadron".
--
|_|0|_| Marti van Lin alias ML2MST
|_|_|0| Registered GNU/Linux user 394093
|0|0|0| http://www.soundclick.com/martivanlin
Hadron
Nice post. According to the Bozos in COLA X is far faster than rendering
on Windows. It isn't of course as anyone that understands the
substantially more complicated architecture can confirm.
Hadron
> Hadron pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> ..when did I ever call an intelligent, honest or reasonable person a
>> hypocrite or describe them as "vermin"? Answer : I didn't.
>
> "Hadron" has indeed called intelligent, honest, and reasonable people
> "hypocrites", "liars", "frauds", as a number of his victims can
> attest.
Mostly you because you're a nasty little shit who gets of proof reading
Jorge Schilling work and calling people "fuckheads" and "cunts". You're
also a Windows programmer who bigs himself up and shows off and
exaggerates his Linux abilities. You also tell lies : like when you
denied I had forewarned you about using the NVidia installer on Debian.
>
> "Moshe" is the one that called them "vermin".
You. Not "them".
Hadron
> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
> --------------enigCE0ED6DDF09A4BC67D345552
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Op 14-05-10 18:00, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Hadron pulled this Usenet boner:
>>=20
>>> ..when did I ever call an intelligent, honest or reasonable person a
>>> hypocrite or describe them as "vermin"? Answer : I didn't.
>>=20
>> "Hadron" has indeed called intelligent, honest, and reasonable people
>> "hypocrites", "liars", "frauds", as a number of his victims can attest.=
>
>>=20
>> "Moshe" is the one that called them "vermin".
>
> Well, waddaya think about this "masterpiece", in respond to TomB:
>
> [quote]
>
>> Considering that I have, on several times, pointed out your rather
>> amateurish and imbecilic disregard for proper practices when
>> administering Linux systems you should be thanking me, not riling me
>> into pointing out more of your bullshit and word games.
Pretty spot on. Thanks for reposting Smarti.
chrisv
> Hadron quacked:
>>
>> ..when did I ever call an intelligent, honest or reasonable person a
>> hypocrite or describe them as "vermin"? Answer : I didn't.
Another bald-faced Quack lie. Documented.
>"Hadron" has indeed called intelligent, honest, and reasonable people
>"hypocrites", "liars", "frauds", as a number of his victims can attest.
>
>"Moshe" is the one that called them "vermin".
Right. I don't recall Quack using "vermin".
chrisv
>Well, waddaya think about this "masterpiece", in respond to TomB:
>
>[quote]
>
>> Considering that I have, on several times, pointed out your rather
>> amateurish and imbecilic disregard for proper practices when
>> administering Linux systems you should be thanking me, not riling me
>> into pointing out more of your bullshit and word games.
>
>[/quote]
>
>Message-ID: <20100514...@usenet.drumscum.be>
That's Quack Speak for "I'm still really pissed-off that TomB spanked
my ass all over usenet, and showed what a lightweight I am. I was
flat out wrong, wrong , wrong and am trying to bury the facts in an
avalanche of lies."
White Spirit
>> It's also interesting that 'Moshe' stopped posting the same time that
>> 'Hadron' did...
> What was that "White Spirit"?
> More loonytune conspiracy theories from the COLA loons?
No. Just an observation.
Trolls don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
chrisv
Perhaps that asshole Quack is to fscking stupid to understand that
when I write:
"Moshe": Blah blah blah
it means "Moshe says 'Blah blah blah'"
Larry *is* a *stupid* pile of shit...
chrisv
>>>"Moshe" is the one that called them "vermin".
>>
>>Right. I don't recall Quack using "vermin".
>
>Perhaps that asshole Quack is to fscking stupid to understand that
>when I write:
>
>"Moshe": Blah blah blah
>
>it means "Moshe says 'Blah blah blah'"
>
>Larry *is* a *stupid* pile of shit...
I'm wondering, was I called a "liar" because Larry misunderstood what
I wrote?
Tim Smith
"Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Hans, every two years for the past twenty, I have tried a Linux
> distribution. A long time ago, I ported a program to System V. I am not
Linux distributions have only been around for 18 years. Prepare to be
nitpicked to death by people who don't know that "twenty" is an
acceptable approximation when writing about a time span that started 18
years ago.
--
--Tim Smith
chrisv
> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hans, every two years for the past twenty, I have tried a Linux
>> distribution. A long time ago, I ported a program to System V. I am not
>
>Linux distributions have only been around for 18 years. Prepare to be
>nitpicked to death by people who don't know that "twenty" is an
>acceptable approximation when writing about a time span that started 18
>years ago.
Timmy troll has only been around for a few decades. Prepare for the
dishonest idiot to falsely accuse others of an unreasonableness that
they do not possess.
Sylvan Morein, DDS
"Hans Steckler" <steckleri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hshabr$pcu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
> other than the pure snobbery of the industry. People who worship Pootools
> and pay homage, in real dollars, to Avid. Examples of working commercial
> studios running Linux are everywhere and at some point Linux will become
> the standard. Here is one such studio.
>
a replacement career, it's a very gnawing thing." He's been a sucker all my
life. A long time ago, I ported a program to System V, but it seemed to
much like work and I hate work. I am not hostile to Linux, but I am more
interested in expensive systems. I am more interested in a green planet, but
I drive the world's dirtyist cars. But I understand why Linux people are
political; it is an egalitarian perspective. I have no such egalitarian
interest. Linux has already achieved great success in the server area. It is
also a great thing for the "Third World", and generally, for rollout of many
Iceland .
Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I have
over 15 years of college education, my views are very important. I am a C++
programmer myself, but I don't do it for any money. One reason is that every
time I put up a Linux system, I have to expend much more mental energy to
maintain it. Mental energy is finite, especially when you're saddled with
psychoses, bi-polar, and other serious mental illnesses that require me to
take very powerful medications. Right now I am studying martingale processes
and the Black-Scholes equity pricing model, planning my next feature film,
working on the high-pressure pump in the basement, and stalking various
neighbors who I hate. I try to keep the delusions of grandeur to a minimum.
I have a hydrodynamic problem in the queue. Obviously, I like to play with
little penises, but little penises of my own choosing.
Every time I look at Linux, I see improvement in the scope of the menu
systems, but they are minute and breakable compared to the all-encompassing
systems of the commercial competitors as well as systems I've designed
myself over the years. As soon as a particular menu system fails to do the
job, the user is back in the old world of command line Options and with the
meds I'm on I can't ever remember any of the commands. I am very
appreciative of the fact that Microsoft in effect maintains my machines for
Me, and have long desired to give Bill Gates a blowjob to completion in
gratitude. I am very appreciative that a 3rd party app makes backups of my
boot drives with just a few clicks. And I like chatting with you to, Hans
and if you're dick is as small as mine I'd be happy to suck you off, too.
The problem with your advocacy is that half the people you are arguing with
would like Linux to work for them, and the other half are peabrained
wankers. If it did work, you wouldn't have an argument, because it wouldn't
be necessary. It's not like nobody knows about Linux; everybody does. We've
all played around with it, even my mother.
Linux developers behave as system programmers who are trying to understand
what the user needs. "I don't really have a replacement career, it's a very
gnawing thing." The problem with this is that programmers expect everyone to
think like programmers. Microsoft and Apple have design departments that
specialize in human interface, staffed by behaviorists. These people force
the requirements down on the system people. The Linux community should adopt
this approach. When they do, the success that is due to Linux from technical
excellence could conceivably be theirs. In fact, just by my thinking about
the problem, it's another breakthru in technology that clearly I'm
responsible for. I think I'll get to work on this patentable idea to make
sure my teachers at Drexel don't steal it again. "I don't really have a
replacement career, it's a very gnawing thing."
I leave a technical comment for last. Processors provide a hardware facility
known as a "call gate" for communication between protection rings. X-Windows
runs as a user process. The guis of Microsoft and Apple run in kernel space.
So running X involves more call-gate transitions than the MS & Apple guis.
This is probably the cause of the somewhat slower gui performance of Linux,
even on high end hardware. But then again, I'm so full of shit most of the
time that I could be wrong.
http://robertmorein.blogspot.com/
"I don't really have a replacement career, it's a very gnawing thing."
Robert Morein
Dresher, PA
(310) 237-6511
(215) 646-4894
Hadron
Stop stalking Roy .... Liarmutt was moaning about you picking on him
recently .... I suspect he thinks that you are "crazy" .....
Chris Ahlstrom
> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I have
> over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
Riiiiiiiiiight.
--
I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year. I
will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future. The Spirits of all
Three shall strive within me. I will not shut out the lessons that they
teach. Oh, tell me that I may sponge away the writing on this stone!
-- Charles Dickens
Homer
> Sylvan Morein, DDS pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I have
>> over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
>
> Riiiiiiiiiight.
Presumably his 15 year long education didn't include any contact with
the film industry, the majority of which now uses GNU/Linux almost
exclusively for many pre and post production A/V tasks:
"Linux now dominates the film industry" ~
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5611327583.html
Most recently:
[quote]
It turns out that Avatar, the hugely successful science fiction epic
film from James Cameron, was rendered using a huge Ubuntu rendering
server farm, at Weta Digital.
[/quote]
"Avatar overtakes Titanic as top-grossing film ever" ~
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8482058.stm
Linux isn't just "ready", it's already swept the floor with the
competition, and cleaned up the parking lot for good measure.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| When all else fails, MOVE.L 4.W,A6 and JSR -726(A6)
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.31.5
15:30:22 up 45 days, 1:20, 2 users, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
Soundhaspriority
"Homer" <use...@slated.org> wrote in message
news:rpn2c7-...@sky.matrix...
> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> Sylvan Morein, DDS pulled this Usenet boner:
>>
>>> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I
>>> have
>>> over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiiiight.
>
> Presumably his 15 year long education didn't include any contact with
> the film industry, the majority of which now uses GNU/Linux almost
> exclusively for many pre and post production A/V tasks:
>
The comment is a forgery. Sylvan Morein is not on usenet.
Your observation about the film industry is correct.
Regards,
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Moshe
Looks like Homer has been sucked in by "Buzzard news".
Yea, Homer is correct in that a lot of the film production houses
are using Linux for RENDERING, but far less are using it as a
front end and even if they do, the versions are highly customized
versions of open source programs that the average person has no
access to.
Like the Pixar stuff for example.
Still, there is no arguing that this is a good application for
Linux software.
Also, despite the typical Linux advocate implication that Windows
lost out, most of these systems were Sun, SGI and other very
expensive systems that were replaced by Linux.
They were not, Windows systems as a rule.
Soundhaspriority
"Moshe" <goldee_l...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:18006p00bz57y.5extw8u53nqs$.dlg@40tude.net...
advances so rapidly, they actually built a new render farm for each major
production. These render farms have/had thousands of machines. They didn't
want to pay for licenses for what was an essentially single-use render farm,
and there was no direct access by artists, so as you say, it is a very good
fit for linux.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Tim Smith
wrote:
> [quote]
> It turns out that Avatar, the hugely successful science fiction epic
> film from James Cameron, was rendered using a huge Ubuntu rendering
> server farm, at Weta Digital.
> [/quote]
And what were they rendering? The answer is largely stuff created using
Adobe proprietary programs running on Macs or Windows. Avatar was
practically a showcase for Adobe pro software.
--
--Tim Smith
Moshe
Could be.
Linux is a perfect fit for stuff like this.
Technology changes so quickly its's getting scary.
I just watched the making of Halo the other night and it looks so
"old" compared to what is being done now.
If Linux could somehow manage to perfect the front end and replace
Adobe, ProTools, Nuendo, etc IOW the tools the designers are
using, there would be no stopping Linux.
It would steamroll the Mac and Windows.
Soundhaspriority
> I just watched the making of Halo the other night and it looks so
> "old" compared to what is being done now.
>
> If Linux could somehow manage to perfect the front end and replace
> Adobe, ProTools, Nuendo, etc IOW the tools the designers are
> using, there would be no stopping Linux.
>
> It would steamroll the Mac and Windows.
If there were such a front end, the above mentioned would port to it. But I
don't think the linux guys want to work under the direction of "human factor
experts", ie., psych majors. These are hard core programmers. In effect,
they are selected for it because they do it for free. They love what they do
too much.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Moshe
I think you are spot on Bob!
Part of the mystique of the Linux community is the unknown.
Put these same people under control of some "suit" say Microsoft,
etc, and they will not be happy.
They prefer being free spirits and that is fine but it's not the
way to grow a business.
Hardware support needs to come first.
Control surfaces, interfaces ALL OF THEM need to be supported.
Plugins like Ivory, Sonnox, UAD etc need to be supported and so
forth.
That's a big order and I'm not convinced the Linux community with
it's fragmentation and disorganization is prepared to deal with
this.
They seem to put "it's got to be free or else" at the top of their
list.
Not good for gaining support from companies that use iLok etc.
DFS
Look for the video labeled "Adobe Software and Avatar"
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez/amazing/
Every screen I could identify was a Mac
DFS
> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> Sylvan Morein, DDS pulled this Usenet boner:
>>
>>> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I have
>>> over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiiiight.
>
> Presumably his 15 year long education didn't include any contact with
> the film industry, the majority of which now uses GNU/Linux almost
> exclusively for many pre and post production A/V tasks:
>
> "Linux now dominates the film industry" ~
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5611327583.html
I don't believe a word Linux idiots like this guy Robin Rowe say.
"Linux is the most popular operating system for big budget feature film
animation and visual effects, with more than 95% of the servers and
desktops at large animation and visual effects companies."
http://www.linuxmovies.org/
and
"The result is virtually every blockbuster or animated feature in
theaters today is made using Linux tools."
http://www.linuxmovies.org/2008/fosdem.html
uh huh... and "half of Europe just dumped Windows", right Homer?
Get some real evidence, or it's more horseshit spewed by Linux "advocates".
> Most recently:
>
> [quote]
> It turns out that Avatar, the hugely successful science fiction epic
> film from James Cameron, was rendered using a huge Ubuntu rendering
> server farm, at Weta Digital.
> [/quote]
>
> http://jordanhall.co.uk/general-articles/avatar-film-rendered-with-enormous-ubuntu-server-farm-4701468/
>
>
> "Avatar overtakes Titanic as top-grossing film ever" ~
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8482058.stm
Has nothing to do with Linux, so why are you posting it? They could've
just as well rendered the movie on Windows or Macs.
> Linux isn't just "ready", it's already swept the floor with the
> competition, and cleaned up the parking lot for good measure.
Where's all the source code? Where are all the Linux video apps?
DFS
> If Linux could somehow manage to perfect the front end and replace
> Adobe, ProTools, Nuendo, etc IOW the tools the designers are
> using, there would be no stopping Linux.
>
> It would steamroll the Mac and Windows.
Keep hope alive!
Moshe
Well that's what it boils down to.
At the current state of things, Linux hasn't a prayer.
Still, I don't a musician alive that wouldn't love to see Linux
take on Windows and Mac in a serious manner.
The problem is the Linux community is in effect Linux's worst
enemy.
geoff
> There is no reason why Linux can't be used to make quality recordings
> other than the pure snobbery of the industry.
Well there is. Linux is an OS, not a DAW.
geoff
Peter Larsen
> If Linux could somehow manage to perfect the front end and replace
> Adobe, ProTools, Nuendo, etc IOW the tools the designers are
> using, there would be no stopping Linux.
You're mixing OS and applications up.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Chris Ahlstrom
Soundhaspriority pulled this Usenet boner:
> "Homer" <use...@slated.org> wrote in message
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>>> Sylvan Morein, DDS pulled this Usenet boner:
>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I
>>>> have over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiiiight.
>>
>> Presumably his 15 year long education didn't include any contact with
>> the film industry, the majority of which now uses GNU/Linux almost
>> exclusively for many pre and post production A/V tasks:
>>
> Gentlemen,
> The comment is a forgery. Sylvan Morein is not on usenet.
>
> Your observation about the film industry is correct.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Morein
> <phone number snipped>
I'm betting Bob's post is a forgery. Who posts their phone number on
Usenet.
What is going on?
http://www.audiobanter.com/showthread.php?t=96237
Who knows, but where insanity is encountered, can one (or more) of our COLA
trolls be far behind?
--
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of
Congress. But I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain
Hadron
> CROSS POSTING SNIPPED
>
> Soundhaspriority pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> "Homer" <use...@slated.org> wrote in message
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>>>> Sylvan Morein, DDS pulled this Usenet boner:
>>>>
>>>>> Nevertheless, I do not feel that Linux is ready for A/V yet and since I
>>>>> have over 15 years of college education, my views are very important.
>>>>
>>>> Riiiiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> Presumably his 15 year long education didn't include any contact with
>>> the film industry, the majority of which now uses GNU/Linux almost
>>> exclusively for many pre and post production A/V tasks:
>>>
>> Gentlemen,
>> The comment is a forgery. Sylvan Morein is not on usenet.
>>
>> Your observation about the film industry is correct.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bob Morein
>> <phone number snipped>
>
> I'm betting Bob's post is a forgery. Who posts their phone number on
> Usenet.
You posted with you real name don't you? Mad if you ask me, but there
you go.
>
> What is going on?
>
> http://www.audiobanter.com/showthread.php?t=96237
>
> Who knows, but where insanity is encountered, can one (or more) of our COLA
> trolls be far behind?
You know all about "behinds" Liarmutt - God knows you spend enough time
sniffing them trying to ingratiate yourself with COLA "advocates".
Moshe
I know that.
I include the applications with Linux, IOW Linux kernel, the OS,
running Linux applications.
geoff
That would be pretty much just "Ardour" then ?
geoff
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
> Olafur Gunnlaugsson wrote:
>
>> Real time was reasonably easy in TOS/Win3x/Win9x/Mac Finder you
>> essentially wrote your own RT kernel that cooperated with the OS, this
>> is not possible with a multitasking pre-emptive OS since it needs to
>> be in control at all times, in that case you need a high resolution
>> timer service within the OS itself
>
> Ah, the Amiga is all forgotten.
No, I loved it, got into it rather late, 1990 or so, but sadly the MIDI
& audio apps were limited, one version of KCS, one version of Cubase and
then nothing but Bars and Pipes and that was not really a pro application
>
>> Microsoft spent a lot of money and time in association with Steinberg
>
> But forgot to purchase the Amiga OS to get a proper multitasking kernel and
> a proper taskpriority system as well as various other goodies that windows
> still is woefully short of.
Win7 is fine
I thought the Metacomco V OS (AKA Amiga OS) was not fully memory
protected due to the lack of such features in the orignal 68k chipsets?
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
> For a historical insight, it's worth reading the Microsoft paper "The
> Problems You're Having May Not Be the Problems You Think You're
> Having" (Results from a Latency Study of Windows NT - Michael B. Jones).
>
> One interesting point it brings up is that an operating system is only as
> real time as it's drivers allow it to be. Of course, if no one has the
> source code to validate the drivers and make them fully pre-emptable,
> than you just have to hope you got lucky. There are Windows tools like
> the DPC latency checker that help some people with this problem.
That is latency, while RT response and latency can be viewed as related
they are not the same, an RT kernel should respond within a predefined
period regardless of drivers et al and should do so independently of
them al la Microware OS9 et al, this slightly disingenuous assertion on
Microsofts part but not unreasonable for marketing papers like this I guess
however by the release of Win2000 the windows system got much better at this
> Even the vanilla Linux kernel is not too bad at latency nowadays, as
> parts of the RT tree slowly get merged into it. Not as good as windows,
> but usable.
Usable for what ? For recording your LP and cassette collection?
certainly, but the original post assured that Linux could take over the
tasks of Nuendo and Protools
> What are these high latency issues? I can do sub millisecond latencies
> with my Delta1010 card, and don't feel the need to go much lower.
You misunderstood, or perhaps this is my fault and I should have made
myself clear, the only advantage that JACK potentially has over other
audio bussing technologies is transparent multi system usage, the
latency issues are horrendus in that configuration and not something
that can be overcome since that requires specialised hardware. As an
intra system bussing tech, it has nothing novel to offer.
> Ah, I see. Your opinions are 13 years out of date.
No that was not an opinion, it was an observation, that should have been
obvious, the rest of my post may have been a collection of worthless
opinions but this certainly was not.
> Really, apart from midi (which is waiting on Ardour3), there is no
> comparison between what I can do in Ardour, and what I could do on Falcon
> Cubase, and I have used both. With midi, even Rosegarden is still more
> advanced on the audio side that Cubase Falcon.
Yes, hardware wise it is since the Falcon is limited to a 20 year old
computer technology, however there is no tool or a synchonisable
collection of tools on Linux that allows me to integrate and control my
studio like that thing did (and does to a degree although these days I
use it mostly as an sequenceing slave with less timing problems)
The closest thing to a workable DAW or MIDI/Recording software on Linux
remains Energy XT and has been so for some time, and that thing is buggy
and for some reason the MIDI editing is less functional in the current
2.5 version that it was in v1.4 or its prdecessor (Muse? cant remember
its original name), making it a neat toy for my sub-notebook, not a tool
I can use on a daily basis to solve problems, hey I bought it anyway but
I mostly use it as a VST slave.
As for pro recording, there is no tool on linux that offers the latency
multi-compensation for instance that Cubase/Nuendo offers, so no
integration with my outboard at mix time
What are you guys comparing Ardour with?
Cubase 5? Pro-Tools? Nuendo? Logic?
I am not commenting on something like A3 that is not out yet
A DAW is not a piece of recording software like Ardour, it is a tool
that allows me to record, control and integrate my studio, be that
virtual or hardware, for that I need MIDI, people do not seem to realise
how important MIDI is and seem to view it as almost a physical thing,
something that was used to hook up synths with in the 80's
MIDI is a protocol, it is the only thing that will talk to, control and
automate the parameters on my external reverb, my internal VST reverb
and all the junk I have in my studio, real, virtual or imaginary. For
the DAW to be something more than a tape recorder on steroids, a good
MIDI editing option is essential
Ardour is not even anywhere close to being as useful as Adobe Audition
is just as a recording program, what sort of chance do you think it has
next to Cubase 5, even if it gains some rudimentary MIDI editing options
in the near future?
This is not a Linux problem specifically, we get this with REAPER as
well, those that use the program basically as a recorder love its
simplicity and do not realise that some of us NEED really good MIDI
editing, and REAPER simply is not up to the job, and then go mental on
various forums on the net if someone states that simple fact.
Take for instance my setup, I cannot fit a proper mixer in here for
space, budget and other reasons but nor am I willing to mix with the
native or protools DSP mixers, they just sound crap with multitrack
mixing, so I use some old Creamware cards as a mixer placed in a
secondary computer, the AD DSP summing for some reason sounds much
better than the Moto one. Now the only way I have to control that
without any latency issues is MIDI and to be able to automate my mixes I
need seriously good midi editing, there simply is no way out of that.
People have to realise that in pro or semi-pro audio as in any
specialised field there is investment in hardware that cannot be
discarder for financial, emotional or practical reasons, any new player
in the field either has to work with that existing investment or to
change the field completely.
If Linux wants to dig a niche in the audio field they will need to
either integrate into an existing setup which is unlikely due to the
aforementioned RT issues, lack of drivers for specialised hardware and a
complete lack of an ecosystem. That only leaves changing the field with
something compleatly integrated, does not have to be be an out and out
pro program, look at something like Steinberg Sequel that can operate on
its own without any external soft or hardware, not for everyone but
enough for a large chunk of users.
How likely is that to happen? Last time I asked about a synthesis
program on Linux about a year ago or so I was directed towards Csound,
now I do not want to sound too negative, but I was using Csound 15 years
ago on an old and clappy 286 and its predecessor 25 years ago on an
early mac, I was hoping for some progress in the meantime .......
the sad truth is that my faith in innovation from the Linux field is tad
on the limited side.
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Olafur Gunnlaugsson<o...@audiotools.com> wrote:
>> boot, when the first multitrack recorder for linux shipped in 1997 I
>> read a lot of articles like this, that was 13 years ago and nothing has
>> happened in the meantime ...
>
> The main thing that hasn't happened in the meantime is music that
> doesn't suck.
>
Plenty of good new music out there, I happened unto this last year
The funny thing is that it is for some reason more difficult to find new
music with the internet, myspace and search engines and all that, than
it was with badly photocopied fanzines and compilation tapes
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
There are other Linux applications like Energy XT, however the designers
of that program have actually been so rude as actually ask for money in
exchange for their software which apparently makes them some sort of
Luddites in the Linux world, or something worse....
Chris Ahlstrom
Olafur Gunnlaugsson pulled this Usenet boner:
>> Even the vanilla Linux kernel is not too bad at latency nowadays, as
>> parts of the RT tree slowly get merged into it. Not as good as windows,
>> but usable.
>
> Usable for what ? For recording your LP and cassette collection?
> certainly, but the original post assured that Linux could take over the
> tasks of Nuendo and Protools
>
> <snip>
Nonetheless, a significant class of users can be satisfied with
- Rosegarden
- Ardour
- Energy XT
- etc.
Here's a much more comprehensive list of open-source "music" tools for
Linux.
http://sound.condorow.net/one-page.html
A few years ago, you could do some decent stuff with the Atari ST and with
Windows NT. But the programs of those days are positively primitive
compared to the programs of today, and that includes the Linux-based
programs.
--
Try the Moo Shu Pork. It is especially good today.
Moshe
Linux users don't like paying for software.
It's one of the key reasons the game company Loki went out of
business.
And like a bad apple, pun intended, they spoil the bunch for the
people who don't mind paying a little for a quality product.
Homer
> A few years ago, you could do some decent stuff with the Atari ST
> and with Windows NT. But the programs of those days are positively
> primitive compared to the programs of today, and that includes the
> Linux-based programs.
Surely the quality of the result is all that matters, and that is much
more dependent on the skill of the musician than the primitiveness of
the instrument. Indeed, I'd argue that instruments which make it /too/
easy to compose music only diminish true creativity, which probably
accounts for why most of today's music all sounds the same.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| When all else fails, MOVE.L 4.W,A6 and JSR -726(A6)
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.31.5
03:58:03 up 47 days, 13:48, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.05, 0.03
Chris Ahlstrom
> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>
>> A few years ago, you could do some decent stuff with the Atari ST
>> and with Windows NT. But the programs of those days are positively
>> primitive compared to the programs of today, and that includes the
>> Linux-based programs.
>
> Surely the quality of the result is all that matters, and that is much
> more dependent on the skill of the musician than the primitiveness of
> the instrument. Indeed, I'd argue that instruments which make it /too/
> easy to compose music only diminish true creativity, which probably
> accounts for why most of today's music all sounds the same.
An interesting case is Synergy (Larry Fast). He released an album called
"Reconstructed Artifacts", in which he remixed a number of his old tunes --
built using tapes, click-tracks, analog synthesizers and primitive digital
ones -- using modern equipment.
Although the sound quality was better, on a few of the tunes* I actually
preferred the analog version. Much richer, and, if not better mixed, at
least I liked the weighting of the sound in the older versions.
* "S-Scape", "Into the Abyss", and "Ancestors".
--
When in doubt, tell the truth.
-- Mark Twain
High Plains Thumper
> In Linux you have to compile your own real-time kernel and live with
> the fact that not all programs work in that configuration and even
> more annoyingly that most music programs do not take advantage of it,
> there is a real time Linux distribution out there, granted, but it is
> outdated and has an annoying habit of not working out of the box
FUD. There is a real time patch and it is easily applied.
> And Linux people do not want to discuss the issue, they just go into
> religious nutcase mode and start waffling on about JACK being a
> ground-breaking technology that will change the face of the market,
> not realising that the high latency issues with that technology make
> it unusable for studio usage
Sounds like flatfish. So all Linux users are nut cases. Figures.
> Unless major distributions start shipping with an RT kernel by
> default and we start seeing some industry strength software, there is
> no software available on linux that would replace my old Cubase
> Audio Falcon installation for instance and that thing is getting on
> 20 years old, making posts like yours are just a sick joke, and an
> old one to boot, when the first multitrack recorder for linux shipped
> in 1997 I read a lot of articles like this, that was 13 years ago and
> nothing has happened in the meantime ... except that I no longer
> have a linux partition on my disk
Yup.
--
HPT