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Unity alternatives - the many desktops of Ubuntu

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Hardon

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Jun 15, 2012, 11:46:23 AM6/15/12
to
<http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>

<quote>
Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
to try.
</quote>

Ain't choice wonderful!

--
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence rely
not.
-Proverbs 3:5

TomB

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Jun 15, 2012, 11:59:58 AM6/15/12
to
On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of Hardon:
><http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>
><quote>
> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available
> for the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04
> LTS but prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of
> alternatives to try.
></quote>
>
> Ain't choice wonderful!

It's brilliant :-)

Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.

--
Neutrinos have bad breadth.

DFS

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Jun 15, 2012, 12:06:58 PM6/15/12
to
Still clueless and/or dishonest after all these years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows

www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes


DFS

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Jun 15, 2012, 12:08:16 PM6/15/12
to
On 6/15/2012 11:46 AM, Hardon wrote:
> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>
> <quote>
> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
> to try.
> </quote>
>
> Ain't choice wonderful!


Yes... if changing desktops over and over and over is what you want to
do with your computer.

Linux is for toy-time tinkering.

Businesses refuse it, and end-users refuse it. Who's left? Old time
MS-hating *nix idiots.



Foster

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Jun 15, 2012, 1:55:23 PM6/15/12
to
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:08:16 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 6/15/2012 11:46 AM, Hardon wrote:
>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>
>> <quote>
>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
>> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
>> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
>> to try.
>> </quote>
>>
>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>
>
> Yes... if changing desktops over and over and over is what you want to
> do with your computer.
>
> Linux is for toy-time tinkering.

Desktop Linux yes.
These guys love tinkering and playing around.
Makes me wonder when they get any real work done?

My Windows 7 desktop is plain vanilla out of the box.
About all I have done is change the background color and made the
fonts bigger.

Of course I willa dmit I'm one of those with the VCR blinking 00:00.
Not because I don't know how to program it, but because I'm too lazy
and since we have a lot of power outages here due to living on a
beach it doesn't pay.

One day I'll get around to installing a whole house UPS.


> Businesses refuse it, and end-users refuse it. Who's left? Old time
> MS-hating *nix idiots.

For the desktop, pretty much.

What good reason can there be to downgrade a system already running
Windows 7 to install Linux?

Toss MSOffice to run Openoffice?

Doubtful.

Maybe on older hardware or if the person has a religious reason or
hate for the infidel Microsoft, which is usually the primary reason
for running Linux in the first place.

TomB

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Jun 15, 2012, 1:57:14 PM6/15/12
to
On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of DFS:
Hehe, not a single item on that list comes even close. Most are very
old and/or discontinued by the way. The only one that look /a little/
promising is the "Emerge" desktop.

The article on Xerox' "Tabworks" alternative Win3.1/95 shell also
tells us the following:

"Since the release of Windows 95, Microsoft has become aware of
instances in which OEMs are modifying the product as a method of
differentiating their hardware. This has caused considerable confusion
with our end user customers. As a result, Microsoft is taking this
opportunity to define the requirements and restrictions of the
preinstallation process, so that all of our end users have a
consistent experience with our products."

> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes

Ugh, themes? Are you serious?

--
To find out a girl's faults, praise her to her girl friends.
-- Benjamin Franklin

chrisv

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Jun 15, 2012, 2:09:19 PM6/15/12
to
TomB wrote:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows
>
>Hehe, not a single item on that list comes even close. Most are very
>old and/or discontinued by the way. The only one that look /a little/
>promising is the "Emerge" desktop.
>
>> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes
>
>Ugh, themes? Are you serious?

Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even funny.
Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?

Next thing you know, some Windows-loving asshole will tell us that
Windows users can have multiple desktops, too, despite them being
relatively shitty and useless.

--
"You can have multiple desktops on Windows too." - "True Linux
advocate" Hadron Quark

GreyCloud

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Jun 16, 2012, 1:37:43 AM6/16/12
to
Hardon wrote:

> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-
desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>
> <quote>
> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
> to try.
> </quote>
>
> Ain't choice wonderful!
>

Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain A,
or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.
Do they work ok? Not many do without headaches and glitches. Too bad they
just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?

GreyCloud

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Jun 16, 2012, 1:39:14 AM6/16/12
to
Except I still like the classical Motif/CDE window manager.
Where is that one?

GreyCloud

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Jun 16, 2012, 1:41:13 AM6/16/12
to
chrisv wrote:

> TomB wrote:
>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows
>>
>>Hehe, not a single item on that list comes even close. Most are very
>>old and/or discontinued by the way. The only one that look /a little/
>>promising is the "Emerge" desktop.
>>
>>> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes
>>
>>Ugh, themes? Are you serious?
>
> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even funny.
> Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>

Are you nuts? What advantage?

> Next thing you know, some Windows-loving asshole will tell us that
> Windows users can have multiple desktops, too, despite them being
> relatively shitty and useless.
>

Like you are? Guffaw!!!


TomB

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 4:08:52 AM6/16/12
to
On 2012-06-16, the following emerged from the brain of GreyCloud:
> chrisv wrote:

8<

>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>
> Are you nuts? What advantage?

Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
of the family uses KDE4.

On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
English.

And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.

Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
one you've been using. That's the advantage.

You guys really need to have this spelled out?

--
The ends justify the means.
-- after Matthew Prior

Chris Ahlstrom

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Jun 16, 2012, 7:38:40 AM6/16/12
to
After swilling some grog, TomB belched this bit o' wisdom:

> On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of DFS:
>> On 6/15/2012 11:59 AM, TomB wrote:
>>> On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of Hardon:
>>>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available
>>>> for the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04
>>>> LTS but prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of
>>>> alternatives to try.
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>>>
>>> It's brilliant :-)
>>>
>>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>>
>> Still clueless and/or dishonest after all these years?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows
>
> Hehe, not a single item on that list comes even close. Most are very
> old and/or discontinued by the way. The only one that look /a little/
> promising is the "Emerge" desktop.

And they're still based completely on the original "shell" DLLs, as
far as I know.

> The article on Xerox' "Tabworks" alternative Win3.1/95 shell also
> tells us the following:
>
> "Since the release of Windows 95, Microsoft has become aware of
> instances in which OEMs are modifying the product as a method of
> differentiating their hardware. This has caused considerable confusion
> with our end user customers. As a result, Microsoft is taking this
> opportunity to define the requirements and restrictions of the
> preinstallation process, so that all of our end users have a
> consistent experience with our products."
>
>> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes
>
> Ugh, themes? Are you serious?

No, DFS is not serious. He is seriously biased, to the point of
dementia.

--
Santa Claus is watching!

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 1:19:03 PM6/16/12
to
On 6/16/2012 2:08 AM, TomB wrote:
> On 2012-06-16, the following emerged from the brain of GreyCloud:
>> chrisv wrote:
>
> 8<
>
>>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>>
>> Are you nuts? What advantage?
>
> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
> of the family uses KDE4.
>
> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
> English.
>
> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.

From what I understand, win has had that for quite a while now.

>
> Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
> environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
> back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
> look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
> one you've been using. That's the advantage.
>
> You guys really need to have this spelled out?
>

No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
Environment that UNIX people are used to using.


Peter Köhlmann

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 2:37:15 PM6/16/12
to
GreyCloud wrote:

> On 6/16/2012 2:08 AM, TomB wrote:
>> On 2012-06-16, the following emerged from the brain of GreyCloud:
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> 8<
>>
>>>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>>>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>>>
>>> Are you nuts? What advantage?
>>
>> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
>> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
>> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
>> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
>> of the family uses KDE4.
>>
>> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
>> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
>> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
>> English.
>>
>> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
>> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.
>
> From what I understand, win has had that for quite a while now.

No
If you changed language settings to (for example) east european (to write
text in polish or some other east european language) from the setting of
"west-european", you actually had to *reboot* windows for the change.

A pain in the ass for people who need several languages.

Notice that linux hasn't had this problem for ages
>>
>
> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
> right now for Suse.

CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.

KDE1 (which is *really* *old* by now) was written to be a better CDE.

Snit

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 4:32:39 PM6/16/12
to
On 6/16/12 1:08 AM, in article 201206161...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
<tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-06-16, the following emerged from the brain of GreyCloud:
>> chrisv wrote:
>
> 8<
>
>>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>>
>> Are you nuts? What advantage?
>
> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
> of the family uses KDE4.

But what about apps? That is really key and desktop Linux is quite lacking
here (nothing like Electric Quilt, ScreenFlow, Tofu, Photoshop, MS Office,
etc.)

But even if we ignore that and just look at the desktop interfaces, what
about all the options that are missing from all of those desktop interfaces
combined, no less present in any given one? Some examples: proxy icons,
integration with any form of media browser, easy methods to use the title
bar to get to the path of a program, a visual versioning system, saved
status indicators, QuickLook, PDF Services, etc. I have listed more before.

While there is no doubt that some of these desktop interfaces on Linux offer
things which are great, they are also lacking in some very significant ways.

> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
> English.

This can be done in OS X, too... and I think Windows.

> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.

So no advantage there now... OK.

> Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
> environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
> back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
> look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
> one you've been using. That's the advantage.
>
> You guys really need to have this spelled out?

I do not deny the advantages. Do you also see the weaknesses? It is
important to understand both... and to deny neither.

--
The indisputable facts about that absurd debate: <http://goo.gl/2337P>
cc being proved wrong about his stats BS: <http://goo.gl/1aYrP>
7 simple questions cc will *never* answer: <http://goo.gl/cNBzu>
cc again pretends to be knowledgeable about things he is clueless about.

GreyCloud

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Jun 16, 2012, 7:30:37 PM6/16/12
to
So?
You think that is a Pita.

> Notice that linux hasn't had this problem for ages

That isn't the problem... getting linux to work right is the problem.
Too much tinkering is needed to get it to work right.

>>>
>>
>> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
>> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>> right now for Suse.
>
> CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.

Guffaw!!! Yet many UNIX professionals prefer it over the garbage that
is being pushed out the gate in the linux community. That is why Linus
says the desktop environment for linux won't catch on.

>
> KDE1 (which is *really* *old* by now) was written to be a better CDE.
>

So you think.
Guffaw!!!

Lusotec

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 9:25:45 PM6/16/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Hardon wrote:
>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-
>> desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>
>> <quote>
>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
>> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
>> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
>> to try.
>> </quote>
>>
>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>
> Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain A,
> or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.

If you want to see a crappy window manager, look at Windows!

> Do they work ok?

They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
headaches and no glitches.

> Not many do without headaches and glitches.

A troll lying, can't be?!

> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?

A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.

Regards.
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Lusotec

unread,
Jun 16, 2012, 9:37:47 PM6/16/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

TomB wrote:
> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
> of the family uses KDE4.
>
> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
> English.

In GNU/Linux it is also very easy to launch an application in a different
locale than the desktop. I find this very useful for testing software.
Admittedly not a common need among users.

One aspect were GNU/Linux has the advantage over Windows and Mac OS X is in
localization, in particular to Portuguese (pt_PT). This is a critical aspect
for certain groups of users, for example children.

> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.
>
> Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
> environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
> back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
> look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
> one you've been using. That's the advantage.
>
> You guys really need to have this spelled out?

Regards.
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Lusotec

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Jun 16, 2012, 9:49:16 PM6/16/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
> right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
> Environment that UNIX people are used to using.

CDE is ancient and completely out dated. Even in its best days it wasn't
anything particularly good. It was slower on a Alpha than Window Maker on a
486 PC, less customizable, and very UGLY.

Regards.
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Snit

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Jun 16, 2012, 10:01:26 PM6/16/12
to
On 6/16/12 6:37 PM, in article jrjcdb$4gr$1...@dont-email.me, "Lusotec"
<nom...@nomail.not> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> TomB wrote:
>> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
>> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
>> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
>> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
>> of the family uses KDE4.
>>
>> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
>> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
>> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
>> English.
>
> In GNU/Linux it is also very easy to launch an application in a different
> locale than the desktop. I find this very useful for testing software.
> Admittedly not a common need among users.
>
> One aspect were GNU/Linux has the advantage over Windows and Mac OS X is in
> localization, in particular to Portuguese (pt_PT). This is a critical aspect
> for certain groups of users, for example children.

How does Linux have an advantage over OS X in this area? And in
accessibility in general OS X is generally considered excellent. Having
worked with blind / sight impaired folks I know how much the appreciate it.

>> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
>> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.
>>
>> Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
>> environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
>> back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
>> look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
>> one you've been using. That's the advantage.
>>
>> You guys really need to have this spelled out?
>
> Regards.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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> =4sGN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



Lusotec

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Jun 16, 2012, 10:32:15 PM6/16/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
>>> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>>> right now for Suse.
>>
>> CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.
>
> Guffaw!!! Yet many UNIX professionals prefer it over the garbage that
> is being pushed out the gate in the linux community.That is why Linus
> says the desktop environment for linux won't catch on.

You bias against Linux is ridiculous. CDE is completely outdated and has not
received any significant work in many years. CDE has been totally surpassed
by KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Enlightnment, LXDE, and several others.

I have not seen any *nix professional mention (much less use) CDE for many
years (and I know a good number of those). Your "many UNIX professionals"
are in the minority (if they exist at all).

Regards.
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Peter Köhlmann

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Jun 17, 2012, 4:03:42 AM6/17/12
to
Lusotec wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
>>>> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>>>> right now for Suse.
>>>
>>> CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.
>>
>> Guffaw!!! Yet many UNIX professionals prefer it over the garbage that
>> is being pushed out the gate in the linux community.That is why Linus
>> says the desktop environment for linux won't catch on.
>
> You bias against Linux is ridiculous. CDE is completely outdated and has
> not received any significant work in many years. CDE has been totally
> surpassed by KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Enlightnment, LXDE, and several
> others.
>
> I have not seen any *nix professional mention (much less use) CDE for many
> years (and I know a good number of those). Your "many UNIX professionals"
> are in the minority (if they exist at all).
>

GreyClods "UNIX professionals" comsist of GreyClod, GreyClod and GreyClod.
Senile old fools who are too damn stupid to tell their ass from a hole in
the ground. And *way* too stupid to use linux

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 1:02:03 PM6/17/12
to
On 6/16/2012 8:32 PM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
>>>> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>>>> right now for Suse.
>>>
>>> CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.
>>
>> Guffaw!!! Yet many UNIX professionals prefer it over the garbage that
>> is being pushed out the gate in the linux community.That is why Linus
>> says the desktop environment for linux won't catch on.
>
> You bias against Linux is ridiculous. CDE is completely outdated and has not
> received any significant work in many years. CDE has been totally surpassed
> by KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Enlightnment, LXDE, and several others.
>

I have doubts about this claim. It would seem that IBM would just rush
right over and adopt one of these WMs... but they haven't.

> I have not seen any *nix professional mention (much less use) CDE for many
> years (and I know a good number of those). Your "many UNIX professionals"
> are in the minority (if they exist at all).

Odd that IBM still uses CDE under AIX and is still being sold.
Oracle has it in their UNIX as well, tho they are discouraging its
use... but many are rejecting their Java Desktop.

And I also have doubts about your claim that you know. :D


GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 1:02:31 PM6/17/12
to
Yet you've never demonstrated once in here your abilities, block head.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 1:03:52 PM6/17/12
to
On 6/16/2012 7:49 PM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>> right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
>> Environment that UNIX people are used to using.
>
> CDE is ancient and completely out dated. Even in its best days it wasn't
> anything particularly good. It was slower on a Alpha than Window Maker on a
> 486 PC, less customizable, and very UGLY.
>

Ugly in this case is in the eye of the beholder.

CDE is robust and very stable compared to the other WMs.

Oh, sorry, I didn't recognize you without your robe and sandles. :D

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 1:05:42 PM6/17/12
to
On 6/16/2012 7:25 PM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Hardon wrote:
>>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-
>>> desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
>>> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
>>> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
>>> to try.
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>>
>> Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain A,
>> or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.
>
> If you want to see a crappy window manager, look at Windows!
>

It works better than the other unstable WMs. I've looked at quite a few
of these so called WMs and most appear to be ugly to me.

>> Do they work ok?
>
> They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
> headaches and no glitches.

So goes the claims.

>
>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>
> A troll lying, can't be?!

Why are you lying then?

>
>> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?
>
> A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.
>

In other words, their are crap.

Bjørn Steensrud

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 2:21:51 PM6/17/12
to
Lusotec wrote:

> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>> right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
>> Environment that UNIX people are used to using.
>
> CDE is ancient and completely out dated. Even in its best days it wasn't
> anything particularly good. It was slower on a Alpha than Window Maker on
> a 486 PC, less customizable, and very UGLY.
>
> Regards.

Solaris now has only a few CDE libraries for backwards compatibility.
Standard desktop environment is Gnome, and KDE, Xfce and others are
available.

There are no more HP-UX workstations being made, only servers (that DO NOT
need a GUI!!),

AIX still comes with CDE, but KDE and Gnome are available, especially since
IBM is a strong Linux supporter. (IBMers do not, as a rule, live in their
mothers' basements…)



Snit

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 12:14:50 AM6/18/12
to
TomB - I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on my comments here.
Seems you missed the first posting (no big deal). Can I get your thoughts
on the following?

Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 7:38:27 AM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> TomB wrote:
>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>
> Except I still like the classical Motif/CDE window manager.
> Where is that one?

CDE was never freely available and now days it is not even available for
single licenses. Very few people are interested in an archaic WM. Face it,
CDE is more dead than alive.

"CDE for Linux is available from Xi Graphics"
http://opengroup.org/cde/

"Xi Graphics, Inc. has ceased developing graphics
drivers and licensing its SW products for the
UNIX/Linux market on a per computer system basis.

We will limit our activities to licensing Accelerated-X™
brand of X servers to organizations that have the
capability to write accelerated ddx modules for the
specific graphics HW to be used with our X servers
and OS kernel modules."
http://www.xig.com/

Regards.
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chrisv

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 9:00:57 AM6/18/12
to
TomB wrote:

> some peice of shit that calls itself GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>>
>> Are you nuts?

No.

Are you a stupid piece of shit? (Yes, you are.)

>> What advantage?

"What advantage" in choices of desktops does GNU/Linux have over
Windows, the piece of shit asks.

chrisv

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 9:01:58 AM6/18/12
to
Lusotec wrote:

> some piece of shit that calls itself "GreyCloud" wrote:
>>
>> Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain A,
>> or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.
>
>If you want to see a crappy window manager, look at Windows!
>
>> Do they work ok?
>
>They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
>headaches and no glitches.
>
>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>
>A troll lying, can't be?!

Utterly worthless liar.

Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 9:36:00 AM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Lusotec wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>> Hardon wrote:
>>>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-
>>>> desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
>>>> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
>>>> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
>>>> to try.
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>>>
>>> Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain
>>> A, or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.
>>
>> If you want to see a crappy window manager, look at Windows!
>
> It works better than the other unstable WMs.

CDE is archaic and does not support many (not so) recent X features, not to
mention very many GNU/Linux features. CDE "works better" how?

> I've looked at quite a few of these so called WMs and most appear to be
> ugly to me.

My personal preferences do not match yours and that is absolutely fine.

>>> Do they work ok?
>>
>> They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
>> headaches and no glitches.
>
> So goes the claims.

It has been the reality for me, for hundreds of the users I support, and I
(will venture) millions other users.

>>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>>
>> A troll lying, can't be?!
>
> Why are you lying then?

Where am I lying?!

>>> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?
>>
>> A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.
>
> In other words, their are crap.

Obviously you are not a intelligent person!

Regards.
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Bob Hauck

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 9:29:12 AM6/18/12
to
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:38:27 +0100, Lusotec <nom...@nomail.not> wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> TomB wrote:
>>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>>
>> Except I still like the classical Motif/CDE window manager.
>> Where is that one?
>
> CDE was never freely available and now days it is not even available for
> single licenses. Very few people are interested in an archaic WM. Face it,
> CDE is more dead than alive.

It isn't even on his beloved Solaris any more.


--
Bob Hauck

Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 10:45:33 AM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Lusotec wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>> No, I already know that a window manager, a good one, is a window
>>>>> manager. Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't
>>>>> find right now for Suse.
>>>>
>>>> CDE is *outdated* and by todays standards total rubbish.
>>>
>>> Guffaw!!! Yet many UNIX professionals prefer it over the garbage that
>>> is being pushed out the gate in the linux community.That is why Linus
>>> says the desktop environment for linux won't catch on.
>>
>> You bias against Linux is ridiculous. CDE is completely outdated and has
>> not received any significant work in many years. CDE has been totally
>> surpassed by KDE, Gnome, Window Maker, Enlightnment, LXDE, and several
>> others.
>
> I have doubts about this claim.

CDE is ancient and has received little work in a good number of year. What
doubt is there?

> It would seem that IBM would just rush right over and adopt one of these
> WMs... but they haven't.

IBM offers Gnome and KDE in AIX.

>> I have not seen any *nix professional mention (much less use) CDE for
>> many years (and I know a good number of those). Your "many UNIX
>> professionals" are in the minority (if they exist at all).
>
> Odd that IBM still uses CDE under AIX and is still being sold.

When was the last time you saw anyone run CDE on a server? Or AIX on
workstation?

> Oracle has it in their UNIX as well, tho they are discouraging its
> use... but many are rejecting their Java Desktop.

What Oracle's UNIX? Solaris? Solaris no longer offers CDE and defaults to
Gnome.

> And I also have doubts about your claim that you know. :D

I know that:
- - KDE, Gnome, and others have been receiving much work in recent years;
- - KDE, Gnome, and others have been supporting recent features (e.g.
composition);
- - KDE, Gnome, and others have been improving the interoperability
(freedesktop.org);
- - KDE, Gnome, and others are available in *BSD;
- - Gnome is now the default desktop in Solaris. Others can be used;
- - KDE and Gnome are offered by HP and IBM;
- - CDE is outdated and has received little work in recent years;
- - CDE is no longer licensed for single licenses;
- - CDE is not widely available;
- - CDE is no longer offered for Solaris;
- - I rarely see CDE being mentioned at all;
- - I haven't used CDE in many year;
- - I haven't seen anyone using CDE in many year;
- - I haven't heard anyone mention using CDE in many year, except you;
- - I haven't heard anyone mention wanting CDE in many year, except you;

Does any one know a vendor offering a workstation with CDE?
I looked in HP and IBM and couldn't find any.

Regards.
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GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 2:54:07 PM6/18/12
to
They do offer it as an option, but CDE is still the default.

>
>>> I have not seen any *nix professional mention (much less use) CDE for
>>> many years (and I know a good number of those). Your "many UNIX
>>> professionals" are in the minority (if they exist at all).
>>
>> Odd that IBM still uses CDE under AIX and is still being sold.
>
> When was the last time you saw anyone run CDE on a server? Or AIX on
> workstation?
>

Strawmans argument.

>> Oracle has it in their UNIX as well, tho they are discouraging its
>> use... but many are rejecting their Java Desktop.
>
> What Oracle's UNIX? Solaris? Solaris no longer offers CDE and defaults to
> Gnome.

No, it doesn't. They offer you CDE or JavaDesktop.

>
>> And I also have doubts about your claim that you know. :D
>
> I know that:
> - - KDE, Gnome, and others have been receiving much work in recent years;
> - - KDE, Gnome, and others have been supporting recent features (e.g.
> composition);
> - - KDE, Gnome, and others have been improving the interoperability
> (freedesktop.org);
> - - KDE, Gnome, and others are available in *BSD;
> - - Gnome is now the default desktop in Solaris. Others can be used;
> - - KDE and Gnome are offered by HP and IBM;
> - - CDE is outdated and has received little work in recent years;
> - - CDE is no longer licensed for single licenses;
> - - CDE is not widely available;
> - - CDE is no longer offered for Solaris;

It is still there for those that don't like the rest.

> - - I rarely see CDE being mentioned at all;
> - - I haven't used CDE in many year;
> - - I haven't seen anyone using CDE in many year;

You mean you haven't gotten out of your basement dwelling in years.

> - - I haven't heard anyone mention using CDE in many year, except you;
> - - I haven't heard anyone mention wanting CDE in many year, except you;
>

That's because you haven't gotten out in years. :D

> Does any one know a vendor offering a workstation with CDE?
> I looked in HP and IBM and couldn't find any.
>

Found on OpenVMS known as DecWindows.
Which uses CDE/Motif.

So much for your many strawmen arguments. :D

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 3:06:45 PM6/18/12
to
On 6/18/2012 5:38 AM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> TomB wrote:
>>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>>
>> Except I still like the classical Motif/CDE window manager.
>> Where is that one?
>
> CDE was never freely available and now days it is not even available for
> single licenses. Very few people are interested in an archaic WM. Face it,
> CDE is more dead than alive.

That isn't true. I've got the latest Solaris that has CDE.

>
> "CDE for Linux is available from Xi Graphics"
> http://opengroup.org/cde/
>
> "Xi Graphics, Inc. has ceased developing graphics
> drivers and licensing its SW products for the
> UNIX/Linux market on a per computer system basis.
>
> We will limit our activities to licensing Accelerated-X™
> brand of X servers to organizations that have the
> capability to write accelerated ddx modules for the
> specific graphics HW to be used with our X servers
> and OS kernel modules."
> http://www.xig.com/

So? That's just them.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 3:08:20 PM6/18/12
to
It is still there on their latest.
Why? Too many programs were written using the CDE libs, just like Cobol
isn't going to go away for the very same reasons.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 3:10:12 PM6/18/12
to
On 6/18/2012 7:36 AM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Lusotec wrote:
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> Hardon wrote:
>>>>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-
>>>>> desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available for
>>>>> the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS but
>>>>> prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of alternatives
>>>>> to try.
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>>>>
>>>> Not much choice... you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain
>>>> A, or you get to pick crappy window manager behind curtain B, etc.
>>>
>>> If you want to see a crappy window manager, look at Windows!
>>
>> It works better than the other unstable WMs.
>
> CDE is archaic and does not support many (not so) recent X features, not to
> mention very many GNU/Linux features. CDE "works better" how?
>

As I've said, it is stable.

>> I've looked at quite a few of these so called WMs and most appear to be
>> ugly to me.
>
> My personal preferences do not match yours and that is absolutely fine.
>
>>>> Do they work ok?
>>>
>>> They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
>>> headaches and no glitches.
>>
>> So goes the claims.
>
> It has been the reality for me, for hundreds of the users I support, and I
> (will venture) millions other users.
>

So, can you back up that claim?

>>>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>>>
>>> A troll lying, can't be?!
>>
>> Why are you lying then?
>
> Where am I lying?!
>

It sure looks like you are to me.

>>>> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?
>>>
>>> A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.
>>
>> In other words, their are crap.
>
> Obviously you are not a intelligent person!

Obviously, you are totally clueless. :D

Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 3:50:54 PM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Lusotec wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>> TomB wrote:
>>>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>>>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>>>
>>> Except I still like the classical Motif/CDE window manager.
>>> Where is that one?
>>
>> CDE was never freely available and now days it is not even available for
>> single licenses. Very few people are interested in an archaic WM. Face
>> it, CDE is more dead than alive.
>
> That isn't true. I've got the latest Solaris that has CDE.

<quote>
Desktop Features That Have Been Removed

The following desktop features have been replaced or removed. Note that some
features were introduced later than Oracle Solaris 10:

Common Desktop Environment (CDE) – CDE is replaced by the Oracle Solaris
Desktop (GNOME 2.30).
</quote>
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/html/E24456/glmbw.html

The current version of Solaris only has some CDE libraries to support legacy
applications.

>> "CDE for Linux is available from Xi Graphics"
>> http://opengroup.org/cde/
>>
>> "Xi Graphics, Inc. has ceased developing graphics
>> drivers and licensing its SW products for the
>> UNIX/Linux market on a per computer system basis.
>>
>> We will limit our activities to licensing Accelerated-X™
>> brand of X servers to organizations that have the
>> capability to write accelerated ddx modules for the
>> specific graphics HW to be used with our X servers
>> and OS kernel modules."
>> http://www.xig.com/
>
> So? That's just them.

Do you know any other vendor of CDE for GNU/Linux?

Regards.
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Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 3:52:30 PM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

GreyCloud wrote:
> Bob Hauck wrote:
>> It isn't even on his beloved Solaris any more.
>
> It is still there on their latest.

No, it is not!

> Why? Too many programs were written using the CDE libs, just like Cobol
> isn't going to go away for the very same reasons.

Only some libraries are needed to support legacy applications. The CDE
desktop environment is no longer distributed with Solaris.

Regards.

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Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 4:11:39 PM6/18/12
to
As is KDE's window manager, kWin.

>>>>> Do they work ok?
>>>>
>>>> They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
>>>> headaches and no glitches.
>>>
>>> So goes the claims.
>>
>> It has been the reality for me, for hundreds of the users I support, and
>> I (will venture) millions other users.
>>
>
> So, can you back up that claim?

Yes, I can. No window manager related crashes (all crashes are recorded in
the systems my company manages) and no window manager complaints from
hundreds of users using hundreds of systems.

>>>>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>>>>
>>>> A troll lying, can't be?!
>>>
>>> Why are you lying then?
>>
>> Where am I lying?!
>
> It sure looks like you are to me.

Where?!

>>>>> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?
>>>>
>>>> A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.
>>>
>>> In other words, their are crap.
>>
>> Obviously you are not a intelligent person!
>
> Obviously, you are totally clueless. :D

That is something a non-intelligent person would write!

Regards.
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Lusotec

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 4:57:13 PM6/18/12
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
> Lusotec wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>> Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>>> right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
>>> Environment that UNIX people are used to using.
>>
>> CDE is ancient and completely out dated. Even in its best days it wasn't
>> anything particularly good. It was slower on a Alpha than Window Maker on
>> a 486 PC, less customizable, and very UGLY.
>
> Solaris now has only a few CDE libraries for backwards compatibility.
> Standard desktop environment is Gnome, and KDE, Xfce and others are
> available.
>
> There are no more HP-UX workstations being made, only servers (that DO NOT
> need a GUI!!),
>
> AIX still comes with CDE, but KDE and Gnome are available, especially
> since IBM is a strong Linux supporter. (IBMers do not, as a rule, live in
> their mothers' basements…)

HP no longer produces UNIX workstations. Maybe some still use CDE remotely
from a HP server. SGI stopped offering CDE on their IRIX workstations.
Oracle stopped offering CDE on Solaris. Maybe IBM? Is IBM offering a UNIX
desktop/workstation with CDE? Is anyone?

Regards.
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JEDIDIAH

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 4:38:13 PM6/18/12
to
BUYING a copy of CDE?

Now that's a blast from the past. I seem to recall CDE and Motiff
being obliterated by GNOME and KDE. After awhile of being available as
payware for Linux, they just gave up and started distributing the source
to both of them. I might even have it around the office somewhere.

Although the CD might have deteriorated with age.

[deletia]

What I could find on a quick Google search was an old ZDNet article
from 2000 titled "Are CDE and Motif Linux roadkill?".

CDE is ancient history.

--
It's great to run an OS where you have to search Google |||
to find problems rather than experiencing them yourself. / | \

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 6:32:11 PM6/18/12
to
On 6/18/2012 2:57 PM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
>> Lusotec wrote:
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> Myself, I prefer the older and proven CDE, which I can't find
>>>> right now for Suse. MWM is part of it, but it isn't the Common Desktop
>>>> Environment that UNIX people are used to using.
>>>
>>> CDE is ancient and completely out dated. Even in its best days it wasn't
>>> anything particularly good. It was slower on a Alpha than Window Maker on
>>> a 486 PC, less customizable, and very UGLY.
>>
>> Solaris now has only a few CDE libraries for backwards compatibility.
>> Standard desktop environment is Gnome, and KDE, Xfce and others are
>> available.
>>
>> There are no more HP-UX workstations being made, only servers (that DO NOT
>> need a GUI!!),
>>
>> AIX still comes with CDE, but KDE and Gnome are available, especially
>> since IBM is a strong Linux supporter. (IBMers do not, as a rule, live in
>> their mothers' basements…)
>
> HP no longer produces UNIX workstations. Maybe some still use CDE remotely
> from a HP server. SGI stopped offering CDE on their IRIX workstations.
> Oracle stopped offering CDE on Solaris. Maybe IBM? Is IBM offering a UNIX
> desktop/workstation with CDE? Is anyone?
>
You better do your research a bit better than that, Lusertech. :D

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 6:32:36 PM6/18/12
to
On 6/18/2012 1:52 PM, Lusotec wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>> Bob Hauck wrote:
>>> It isn't even on his beloved Solaris any more.
>>
>> It is still there on their latest.
>
> No, it is not!
>
>> Why? Too many programs were written using the CDE libs, just like Cobol
>> isn't going to go away for the very same reasons.
>
> Only some libraries are needed to support legacy applications. The CDE
> desktop environment is no longer distributed with Solaris.
>
Yes, they still do.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 6:34:01 PM6/18/12
to
Odd that mine does. It is an option during the install phase to install
CDE. There are far too many legacy apps to be ignored.


GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 6:34:38 PM6/18/12
to
You are clueless as usual. CDE is not ancient history... go ask IBM. :D

Hadron

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 6:42:12 PM6/18/12
to
It's truly horrible.

--
A certain COLA "advocate" faking his user-agent in order to pretend to be a Linux
user: User-Agent: Outlook 5.5 (WinNT 5.0), User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0
(Linux), Message-ID: <wPGdnd3NnOM...@comcast.com>

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 7:29:19 PM6/18/12
to
So? It is also very bloated.

>
>>>>>> Do they work ok?
>>>>>
>>>>> They work better than OK. In particular, KWin works superbly well, no
>>>>> headaches and no glitches.
>>>>
>>>> So goes the claims.
>>>
>>> It has been the reality for me, for hundreds of the users I support, and
>>> I (will venture) millions other users.
>>>
>>
>> So, can you back up that claim?
>
> Yes, I can. No window manager related crashes (all crashes are recorded in
> the systems my company manages) and no window manager complaints from
> hundreds of users using hundreds of systems.
>

Now back up that claim. Which I know you won't.

>>>>>> Not many do without headaches and glitches.
>>>>>
>>>>> A troll lying, can't be?!
>>>>
>>>> Why are you lying then?
>>>
>>> Where am I lying?!
>>
>> It sure looks like you are to me.
>
> Where?!
>

All of the above. :D

>>>>>> Too bad they just can't get it right the first time... why can't they?
>>>>>
>>>>> A intelligent person would know that there is no one size fits all.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, their are crap.
>>>
>>> Obviously you are not a intelligent person!
>>
>> Obviously, you are totally clueless. :D
>
> That is something a non-intelligent person would write!
>

No, it is someone that recognizes your total cluelessness.
And that dept. belongs only to higher intelligences, which excludes you.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 10:56:11 PM6/18/12
to
I know it looks ugly, but it has always worked well for me.
Stable as a rock, as some of these advocates will say about their own
pet os.

Snit

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 3:36:41 PM6/19/12
to
TomB - I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on my comments here.
Seems you missed the first posting (no big deal). Can I get your thoughts
on the following?

On 6/16/12 1:08 AM, in article 201206161...@usenet.drumscum.be, "TomB"
<tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-06-16, the following emerged from the brain of GreyCloud:
>> chrisv wrote:
>
> 8<
>
>>> Good grief, Linux has such an advatage here, that it's not even
>>> funny. Who do these fscktard trolls think they are fooling?
>>
>> Are you nuts? What advantage?
>
> Good that you ask. The advantage is that GNU/Linux, through its many
> different desktop interfaces and window managers, can server the
> general user and the geek equally well. For instance, on my home
> desktop I use the very sparse awesome window manager, while the rest
> of the family uses KDE4.

But what about apps? That is really key and desktop Linux is quite lacking
here (nothing like Electric Quilt, ScreenFlow, Tofu, Photoshop, MS Office,
etc.)

But even if we ignore that and just look at the desktop interfaces, what
about all the options that are missing from all of those desktop interfaces
combined, no less present in any given one? Some examples: proxy icons,
integration with any form of media browser, easy methods to use the title
bar to get to the path of a program, a visual versioning system, saved
status indicators, QuickLook, PDF Services, etc. I have listed more before.

While there is no doubt that some of these desktop interfaces on Linux offer
things which are great, they are also lacking in some very significant ways.

> On top of that it has been possible for ages to run different sessions
> in different languages on GNU/Linux, so my wife and daughters can use
> their environment in Dutch, while I can use my own environment in
> English.

This can be done in OS X, too... and I think Windows.

> And yes, I know Windows 7 can do this too now. Windows *finally*
> caught up with GNU/Linux in that regard.

So no advantage there now... OK.

> Another word on the many faces of GNU/Linux: all those work
> environments are available as a *choice*; there is no need to switch
> back and forth between them. Just install the one you like, and never
> look back. Or do look back in case you're no longer satisfied with the
> one you've been using. That's the advantage.
>
> You guys really need to have this spelled out?

DFS

unread,
Jun 21, 2012, 10:57:16 AM6/21/12
to
On 6/15/2012 1:57 PM, TomB wrote:
> On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of DFS:
>> On 6/15/2012 11:59 AM, TomB wrote:
>>> On 2012-06-15, the following emerged from the brain of Hardon:
>>>> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Unity-alternatives-the-many-desktops-of-Ubuntu-1614860.html>
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Ubuntu's Unity is far from the only desktop environment available
>>>> for the distribution. For users who want to stay with Ubuntu 12.04
>>>> LTS but prefer another desktop environment, there are plenty of
>>>> alternatives to try.
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Ain't choice wonderful!
>>>
>>> It's brilliant :-)
>>>
>>> Unlike with its commercial counterparts, you are not stuck with the
>>> default desktop environment on GNU/Linux.
>>
>> Still clueless and/or dishonest after all these years?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows
>
> Hehe, not a single item on that list comes even close.


What?

You just said I was stuck with my default Windows desktop. I show you
you're wrong and you claim those aren't actually alternative Windows
desktops.

Congrats on ignoring reality - like Snit or Ian Hilliard.



> Most are very
> old and/or discontinued by the way.

Old or discontinued doesn't mean they can't be obtained, and it doesn't
mean they won't work with XP, which was released in 2001 and still has
40%+ of the world's users.

Except for Aston, all eight of them for XP and up are still available,
including Cairo.

Then there's Bluebox Win32, Blackbox for Windows, bbLean, xOblite, and more.

www.google.com/search?q=alternative+shells+for+windows

I'd say there are about 15 alternative desktop environments for Windows
XP, Vista and 7.


You lose. Again.

You couldn't be more wrong. Again.




> The only one that look /a little/
> promising is the "Emerge" desktop.

In your ignorant, uninformed opinion.



> The article on Xerox' "Tabworks" alternative Win3.1/95 shell also
> tells us the following:
>
> "Since the release of Windows 95, Microsoft has become aware of
> instances in which OEMs are modifying the product as a method of
> differentiating their hardware. This has caused considerable confusion
> with our end user customers. As a result, Microsoft is taking this
> opportunity to define the requirements and restrictions of the
> preinstallation process, so that all of our end users have a
> consistent experience with our products."

Yes. So?

They were diluting and confusing the Windows experience by shipping
systems with their own shell. No different than if Ubuntu shipped Unity
but didn't make it clear it wasn't standard Gnome.



>> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes
>
> Ugh, themes? Are you serious?


What's wrong with themes? Linux distros include lots of them.

Hadron

unread,
Jun 21, 2012, 1:14:40 PM6/21/12
to
Amazing isnt it. He recently claimed emails NEVER contain the ip address
of the client. Amazingly stupid statement for something so easily
checked.
TomB makes a lot of grandios claims. He's not the worst but like Creepy
Chris Ahlstrom he likes to over extend his limited knowledge in order to
suck up and be accepted by the "advocate herd".

>
>> The only one that look /a little/
>> promising is the "Emerge" desktop.
>
> In your ignorant, uninformed opinion.
>
>> The article on Xerox' "Tabworks" alternative Win3.1/95 shell also
>> tells us the following:
>>
>> "Since the release of Windows 95, Microsoft has become aware of
>> instances in which OEMs are modifying the product as a method of
>> differentiating their hardware. This has caused considerable confusion
>> with our end user customers. As a result, Microsoft is taking this
>> opportunity to define the requirements and restrictions of the
>> preinstallation process, so that all of our end users have a
>> consistent experience with our products."
>
> Yes. So?
>
> They were diluting and confusing the Windows experience by shipping systems with
> their own shell. No different than if Ubuntu shipped Unity but didn't make it
> clear it wasn't standard Gnome.
>
>>> www.google.com/search?q=windows+desktop+themes
>>
>> Ugh, themes? Are you serious?
>
> What's wrong with themes? Linux distros include lots of them.
>
>

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