Is Vista the Final Nail In The Desktop Linux Coffin.
Kaylie Solomon
Let's be honest, Linux has had years between the release of Windows XP and
the upcoming release of Vista to gain a stronghold in the lucrative
desktop arena. The truth is that Linux has failed miserably in it's
attempt to gain desktop presence.
By all accounts that can be found, Linux hovers in a death spiral at less
than 0.5 percent of desktop usage. A miserable figure after 15 years and
certainly not an encouragement considering Windows XP was ready to be
replaced 3 years ago by Vista. Of course the Linux pundits will flail
their arms, shout and scream about Linux replacing Windows in some village
in the middle of Africa, and that is admirable, facts are facts and
Microsoft sells more units in 20 seconds than that entire village is
worth. Then there is Munich, another Linux *success* story. One delay
after another as the project spirals into a far more complex project than
first anticipated and then we learn they will be converting one
workstation per week, or something close to that. Do the math. It will
take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck waiting patiently as the
cleanup batter and when it is released it is going to knock Linux out of
the desktop batters box once and for all. Linux will go right back where
it belongs and that is as a tool for geeks and freaks and it will remain
on their desktop until it is finally removed from life support and put out
to pasture.
Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the server
and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
applications.
The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
B Gruff
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
It certainly is - it will complete the job.
Coincidently, Linux will be the *final* *nail* in Microsoft's *coffin* !
Gordon
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
No.
--
Registered Linux User no 240308
to email me invalidate the invalid!
Rick
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
(snip)
> The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
Lousy troll attempt. Try harder.
--
Rick
Gordon
> The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
Given the rection to IE7 in the IE7 newsgroups, they're not screaming "we
want Vista" EITHER.
Kier
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
Why should it be? XP wasn't, and Linux was less impressive then than it is
now. In the last couple of years it's really surged forward in
cevelopment and is *ahead* of Vista, not behind it.
> Let's be honest, Linux has had years between the release of Windows XP
> and the upcoming release of Vista to gain a stronghold in the lucrative
> desktop arena. The truth is that Linux has failed miserably in it's
> attempt to gain desktop presence.
Actually, no, it hasn't failed at all.
> By all accounts that can be found, Linux hovers in a death spiral at
> less than 0.5 percent of desktop usage. A miserable figure after 15
Prove that figure.
> years and certainly not an encouragement considering Windows XP was
> ready to be replaced 3 years ago by Vista. Of course the Linux pundits
> will flail their arms, shout and scream about Linux replacing Windows in
Sorry, what?
> some village in the middle of Africa, and that is admirable, facts are
> facts and Microsoft sells more units in 20 seconds than that entire
> village is worth. Then there is Munich, another Linux *success* story.
Linux is a success. Period. It doesn't need to outdo Windows to be a
success. It works, and works well. The fact that fewer people use it than
use Windows only means they haven't found out about it.
> One delay after another as the project spirals into a far more complex
> project than first anticipated and then we learn they will be converting
> one workstation per week, or something close to that. Do the math. It
> will take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck waiting patiently
> as the cleanup batter and when it is released it is going to knock Linux
> out of the desktop batters box once and for all. Linux will go right
> back where it belongs and that is as a tool for geeks and freaks and it
> will remain on their desktop until it is finally removed from life
> support and put out to pasture.
Have you go any evidence to support this nonsensical crap you're spouting?
Linux isn't anything to do with 'freaks'. It's a perfectly usable and
robust desktop system. I should know, I'm using it right this minute. I've
just been watching the backup rip of one of my DVDs on my laptop, which
also runs Linux. Nothing in the least freakish about that.
>
> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the
> server and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
> applications.
Why should Linux forget about the desktop, when it's a perfectly good
desktop?
> The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
So what? That doesn't mean Linux isn't a good desktop system, it just
means the public is unaware of how good it is. Bad luck to them.
But then, you're just an ill-informed troll, spouting the usual tired
rubbish that we've all heard before. maybe you should find another script,
this one is wearing very thin.
--
Kier
flatfish+++
The short answer is people already have Windows and don't need to learn
another operating system.
They already have money and time invested in software.
They use Windows at work.
Their friends use Windows so support via sneaker net is easy.
Their kids use Windows and Windows programs at school.
So what is the incentive to move to Linux?
Security?
Maybe. Most people however don't really care beyond using what firewall
and anti-virus programs came with their preloaded systems.
They set it and forget it.
Applications?
They already own plenty of those.
Freedom from licensing?
Ok, maybe, but they already have the programs they need.
And much of the Linux applications, applications that Joe and Jane user
would use, are just not as good and polished (can you say context
sensitive help?) as the Windows programs they are trying to mimic.
Normal people USE their computers and are not on some religious operating
system quest.
Dual boot?
Why? Now they have to maintain 2 systems instead of one. Keep bookmarks
and mail synchronized and so forth.
A PITA.
So why should ordinary, normal every day people switch to Linux and be
what amounts to the square peg in the round hole?
Obviously by looking at Linux;s desk top marketshare, they haven't figured
it out yet because Linux isn't even on the radar screen.
The truth is that as far as consumer desktops are concerned, Linux is a no
show and has been a no show for 15 years or so and there is nothing to
indicate that any of this will change.
Linux zealots keep proclaiming "this is the year of Linux".
Well they have been doing this for 15 years and nothing, as far as desktop
Linux is concerned, has changed.
Peter Köhlmann
< snip flatfish droppings >
Hi flatfish.
Another meaningless troll, I see
--
If they were committed to Linux, they'd be developing exclusively for
Linux. - Funkenbusch 17 Oct 2006
Gregory Shearman
> take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck waiting patiently as the
> cleanup batter and when it is released it is going to knock Linux out of
> the desktop batters box once and for all. Linux will go right back where
> it belongs and that is as a tool for geeks and freaks and it will remain
> on their desktop until it is finally removed from life support and put out
> to pasture.
Sorry, I only like cricket. In cricket they are called batsmen (how
sexist!). Cricket is a tactical and a subtle game played over 4 or 5 days.
Strategy is about the long haul, not ephemeral victories. It's not about
power and aggression, its about guile and elegance.
> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the server
> and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
> applications.
Market? Market?
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-ding-dang,My Dang-a-long ling-long"
flatfish+++
> The racist, liar and software thief Kaylie Solomon (flatfish) nymshifted:
>
> < snip flatfish droppings >
>
> Hi flatfish.
> Another meaningless troll, I see
And absolutely no proof to back up your claim from you.
Interesting how the trolls and you always seem to appear at the same time.
Get a life Peter.
Your lies are starting to become clear as glass.
Marshall
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
<sniped and cross post troll removed>
I think the real question is:
Is Vista going to be the final nail in Microsoft's coffin?
I don't think anyone can say for sure but as I look at Vista and the
world, I see a product coming that has a lot of potential to aggravate
people and drive them to other solutions. I see a product coming that
will prove to be the most intrusive and restrictive in computing history.
I see a product coming that is grossly behind the tech curve, delayed
and incomplete. I see a product coming that the informed consumer should
be fearful of. A product that makes high demands and provides little for
it other than shiny sparkly things and even those are behind and not as
good as the competition.
I see a complete void of business need to move to Vista. I see no real
need for consumers to move to Vista outside of DirectX10 gamers that are
more driven by perceived ePeen size than logic. Although I am sure
Microsoft with it's MPAA/DRM mindset has been hard at work on creating
need... It desperately needs a new model it can foist on people and it
is clear that Vista is to be that mechanism for delivering content that
always has cost attached.
Vista kill Linux?
Only if the same old Microsoft tactics of strong arming industry and
consumers still have any power left to them and I don't think they do.
Too many governments, institutions, businesses are hip to Microsoft
tactics and costs. The last one that will wake up will be the consumer
and more specifically the American consumer.
The writing on the wall has been slowly filling in over the years and
Vista maybe the final product that makes that writing abundantly clear
to the masses.
flatfish+++
> Vista kill Linux?
>
> Only if the same old Microsoft tactics of strong arming industry and
> consumers still have any power left to them and I don't think they do.
> Too many governments, institutions, businesses are hip to Microsoft
> tactics and costs. The last one that will wake up will be the consumer
> and more specifically the American consumer.
The preloaded market share alone is going to be enough to sink linux
desktop.
> The writing on the wall has been slowly filling in over the years and
> Vista maybe the final product that makes that writing abundantly clear
> to the masses.
Personally, I believe Vista may be Microsoft's last operating system.
There are more lucrative markets for Microsoft to get into.
However, Linux has had years to challenge Windows XP and it just has not
happened for Linux.
Sure there are minor wins here and there, but when you consider that XP
has been more or less stagnant for years and Linux, technically, has been
advancing, yet Linux hasn't threatened Windows at all on the desktop.
If Linux can't compete with an outdated OS like XP, how is it going to
fair against Vista?
B Gruff
Interesting ..... here we go yet again.
Over the months and years, there are certain Flatfish Traits that have
become clear to me. These include, but are not limited to....
- if flattie is lying, he starts to call people liars (liar liar pants on
fire!)
- if flattie is caught out, his response will be to accuse others of making
a smokescreen - thus making a smokescreen....
- if flattie is, or is about to, "gang-up" with hadron or some other twat,
he will accuse "the cola gang" of ganging up on him...
- flattie spams this and other NGs, but calls Roy a spammer!
- if flattie is making personal attacks on somebody, or about to, he will
start preaching about "ad hominem" attacks by cola members...
- if/when flattie or his nyms is/are in real difficulty, the cross-posting
goes up, and the nym-changes are more frequent...
... and now flattie calls Peter a troll:-) Well, well, well, what *are* we
to make of that......?:-)
B Gruff
Precisely, and very well put:-)
(I note that "Kaylie Solomon" has gone quiet, but that flattie has taken
over the baton.....:-))
flatfish+++
And not a shred of evidence to prove Peter or your claims.
I lose either way.
If I don't say anything, which is what I usually do, then Kohlmanns lies
stand as fact.
If I confront him then i get idiots like you spinning yarns like above.
If I do all of these things, then why not prove it?
Seems simple to me.
flatfish+++
Here we go again............
Can't address the topic so the attacks begin.
FWIW I happen to agree with her (him?) and that post is spot on which is
why you Linux nutsacks are mobilizing to discredit the poster.
flatfish+++
>
> (I note that "Kaylie Solomon" has gone quiet, but that flattie has taken
> over the baton.....:-))
Yet you ignore the fact that Kohlmann appears as well, just like he
usually tends to do.
Open your eyes and make the connection.
Most people have already figured it out. You must be a little slow.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> Kaylie Solomon wrote:
>> take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck waiting patiently as the
>> cleanup batter and when it is released it is going to knock Linux out of
>> the desktop batters box once and for all. Linux will go right back where
>> it belongs and that is as a tool for geeks and freaks and it will remain
>> on their desktop until it is finally removed from life support and put out
>> to pasture.
> Sorry, I only like cricket. In cricket they are called batsmen (how
> sexist!). Cricket is a tactical and a subtle game played over 4 or 5 days.
> Strategy is about the long haul, not ephemeral victories. It's not about
> power and aggression, its about guile and elegance.
Chess might be a better example then.
There's really not much subtly in chucking a varnished red ball at a bat and
running when someone hits it.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadron Quark
> On Saturday 21 October 2006 13:21 flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:16:35 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> The racist, liar and software thief Kaylie Solomon (flatfish) nymshifted:
>>>
>>> < snip flatfish droppings >
>>>
>>> Hi flatfish.
>>> Another meaningless troll, I see
>>
>> And absolutely no proof to back up your claim from you.
>>
>> Interesting how the trolls and you always seem to appear at the same time.
>>
>> Get a life Peter.
>> Your lies are starting to become clear as glass.
>
> Interesting ..... here we go yet again.
> Over the months and years, there are certain Flatfish Traits that have
> become clear to me. These include, but are not limited to....
>
> - if flattie is lying, he starts to call people liars (liar liar pants on
> fire!)
You know when he is lying? It would seem Peter, when you're not licking
his ring, is the one making unfounded accusations.
>
> - if flattie is caught out, his response will be to accuse others of making
> a smokescreen - thus making a smokescreen....
>
Denying something is making a smokescreen? How old are you? 10?
> - if flattie is, or is about to, "gang-up" with hadron or some other twat,
> he will accuse "the cola gang" of ganging up on him...
Examples please. Fact : I can point to more advocacy posts from me that
I can find from you.
>
> - flattie spams this and other NGs, but calls Roy a spammer!
>
How does he spam? He rarely starts a thread and mostly contributes
constructively. You should try it. Or is your name Kier?
> - if flattie is making personal attacks on somebody, or about to, he will
> start preaching about "ad hominem" attacks by cola members...
Well, you're either deaf, dumb or blind if you dont see that tendency
from the gang.
>
> - if/when flattie or his nyms is/are in real difficulty, the cross-posting
> goes up, and the nym-changes are more frequent...
Proof?
>
> ... and now flattie calls Peter a troll:-) Well, well, well, what *are* we
> to make of that......?:-)
>
A foul mouthed troll.
--
This code passes Torvalds test grades 0, 1 and 2 (it looks ok, it
compiles and it booted).
-- Alan Cox
William Poaster
> On Saturday 21 October 2006 13:21 flatfish+++ wrote:
<drivel snipped>
> Interesting ..... here we go yet again. Over the months and years, there
> are certain Flatfish Traits that have become clear to me. These include,
> but are not limited to....
>
> - if flattie is lying, he starts to call people liars (liar liar pants on
> fire!)
>
> - if flattie is caught out, his response will be to accuse others of
> making a smokescreen - thus making a smokescreen....
>
> - if flattie is, or is about to, "gang-up" with hadron or some other twat,
> he will accuse "the cola gang" of ganging up on him...
>
> - flattie spams this and other NGs, but calls Roy a spammer!
>
> - if flattie is making personal attacks on somebody, or about to, he will
> start preaching about "ad hominem" attacks by cola members...
>
> - if/when flattie or his nyms is/are in real difficulty, the cross-posting
> goes up, and the nym-changes are more frequent...
As you say those are some of the Flatfish Traits that are clear, & not
just limited to your list. There are others, such as:
- making abundant use of (anonymizing) proxies...
- different types of newsreaders - among which is Google Groups...
- makes typical references in his posts to things he has said earlier...
- regularly posting, either under his /flatfish+++/ or under (an often
female) nickname, complete with throwaway e-mail addresses....
- if he posts something bad about GNU/Linux, you also quickly know it's
him, because he won't stick to a single thread - he typically starts
two, and even more if he's in one of his psychotic moods....
- once again posing as a female - he also often recycles his pseudonyms,
his throwaway e-mail addresses and his posts.
- has a clear penchant for racism and an obsession with oral sex that
often surfaces in his choice of pseudonyms.
There are a couple of more things that give him away, which he obviously
*isn't* aware of, & which show without any shadow of doubt, that it's
flatfarce posting.
> ... and now flattie calls Peter a troll:-) Well, well, well, what *are*
> we to make of that......?:-)
Deflection & diversion is one of a troll's tactics. Oh, & one other thing,
he's a stalker too.
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies getting screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing.
B Gruff
1. Topic has already been addressed.
2. If you feel "attacked", either as yourself or your nyms, do something
about it - like piss off for good.
3. Your "complaint" about "attacks" on you noted - along with my observation
of your traits in another post of mine, coupled with your own comments this
past week re. other regular posters in this group.
(i.e. you compain that you are attacked, but have been attacking others all
bloody week, you big girl's blouse!)
I promise never to say I promise never to say I told you so!
B Gruff
>> ... and now flattie calls Peter a troll:-) Well, well, well, what are
>> we to make of that......?:-)
>
> Deflection & diversion is one of a troll's tactics. Oh, & one other thing,
> he's a stalker too.
- and another one that we both missed - he juggles the No Archive bit....
William Poaster
I had seen from Roy Culley's stats, that he'd started using XNA again, but
I didn't know he was "juggling" it. Probably another thing he forgot when
he switched newsreaders, or nymshifted.
B Gruff
> Wonderful.
> So now I have a forger as well.
> Oh well, like they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Well, bugger me!
That one fooled me too, flattie.
In fact, the headers in the "forgery", although it bears your name and
sounds like you, are actually very similar to those of "Kaylie Solomon",
who actually started this thread, aren't they?
(I note that the original didn't carry the anti-Roy diatribe, though, only
the "forgery")
I really can't imagine how it could be done, or why, can you?
There again, if we accept Occam's Razor......
flatfish+++
Fooled you?
You must not be too bright...
Ever hear of cut-n-paste?
Duhhhh...
flatfish+++
>
> 1. Topic has already been addressed.
And not a single fact has been presented.
Nothing but conjecture and far out theories.
Hey, I like to label my points 1. 2. 3. etc...
Looks like B Gruff must be flatfish..........
NoStop
> So why should ordinary, normal every day people switch to Linux and be
> what amounts to the square peg in the round hole?
>
The main reason people are flocking to GNU/Linux from the Windoze desktop is
because Windoze sucks. We in the Linux community are constantly running
into Windoze users that, even though they sometimes are finding it somewhat
difficult, are putting an effort into unlearning the bad habits created by
using a toy operating system like Windoze and are putting GNU/Linux on
their desktops.
Why would any ordinary computer user put the effort into trying to get
vendor unsupported hardware working in Linux and take on a new learning
curve (made more difficult because of the crap they're used to) if Windoze
was adequate to their needs? The answer is obvious - Windoze doesn't meet
their needs. They realize what a piece of shit "operating system" Windoze
is and are prepared to work hard to get out from under it.
I'd guess that 99.9% of existing Linux users at one time used Windoze. Now
that they've discovered the vastly superior operating system, they'll never
go back to Windoze. These millions of users all started out as "ordinary,
normal every day people" and as enough of us keep hammering that square peg
in the round hole, the round hole eventually starts to square up as we're
seeing today.
Cheers.
--
Linux is ready for the desktop! More ready than Windoze XP.
http://tinyurl.com/ldm9d
"Computer users around the globe recognize that the most serious threats to
security exist because of inherent weaknesses in the Microsoft operating
system." McAfee
Sinister Midget
> On Saturday 21 October 2006 14:50 flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:48:18 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:37:06 +0100, B Gruff wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> (I note that "Kaylie Solomon" has gone quiet, but that flattie has taken
>>>> over the baton.....:-))
>>>
>>> Yet you ignore the fact that Kohlmann appears as well, just like he
>>> usually tends to do.
>>> Open your eyes and make the connection.
>>> Most people have already figured it out. You must be a little slow.
>>
>> Wonderful.
>> So now I have a forger as well.
>> Oh well, like they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
In this case: imitation is the worst form of Flatty.
> Well, bugger me!
> That one fooled me too, flattie.
> In fact, the headers in the "forgery", although it bears your name and
> sounds like you, are actually very similar to those of "Kaylie Solomon",
> who actually started this thread, aren't they?
> (I note that the original didn't carry the anti-Roy diatribe, though, only
> the "forgery")
Flatso seems never to have thought of this angle until WJ "Dumb" Bell
came up with it recently.
> I really can't imagine how it could be done, or why, can you?
Too bad s/h/it didn't sign off as flatfish++++++++++++++++ again.
--
MyDoom: Innovative Microsoft peer-to-peer software.
CBFalconer
> Kaylie Solomon wrote:
>
>> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
>>
>
> So what is the incentive to move to Linux?
> Security?
> Maybe. Most people however don't really care beyond using what
> firewall and anti-virus programs came with their preloaded systems.
> They set it and forget it.
>
> Applications?
> They already own plenty of those.
Most of which will have to be replaced if they make the mistake of
mounting Vista.
>
> Freedom from licensing?
> Ok, maybe, but they already have the programs they need. And much
> of the Linux applications, applications that Joe and Jane user
> would use, are just not as good and polished (can you say context
> sensitive help?) as the Windows programs they are trying to mimic.
So that after spending many thousands on Vista and the replacement
programs they will be back to the same insecurities. Meanwhile
those who stick with the older systems, and/or Linux, will be able
to use their well tried, tested, and familiar subsystems. Some of
the software I run was written 25 years ago, some by me, some by
others.
Even if their old software will run on Vista, it is likely to be
arbitrarily destroyed by Microsoft at any time. Read the abysymal
EULAs, which are reputed to be getting even worse. Those who have
accepted XP, and updates to W2000, are stuck with this risk and
need to get away from it.
All in all, now is a good time to switch to a Linux system.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Hadron Quark
> flatfish+++ wrote:
>> Kaylie Solomon wrote:
>>
>>> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
>>>
> ... snip ...
>>
>> So what is the incentive to move to Linux?
>> Security?
>> Maybe. Most people however don't really care beyond using what
>> firewall and anti-virus programs came with their preloaded systems.
>> They set it and forget it.
>>
>> Applications?
>> They already own plenty of those.
>
> Most of which will have to be replaced if they make the mistake of
> mounting Vista.
Source for this please?
>
>>
>> Freedom from licensing?
>> Ok, maybe, but they already have the programs they need. And much
>> of the Linux applications, applications that Joe and Jane user
>> would use, are just not as good and polished (can you say context
>> sensitive help?) as the Windows programs they are trying to mimic.
>
> So that after spending many thousands on Vista and the replacement
> programs they will be back to the same insecurities. Meanwhile
> those who stick with the older systems, and/or Linux, will be able
> to use their well tried, tested, and familiar subsystems. Some of
> the software I run was written 25 years ago, some by me, some by
> others.
How is installing Linux on your Thinkpad going?
What SW did you write 25 years ago that is still running on a linux
system?
>
> Even if their old software will run on Vista, it is likely to be
> arbitrarily destroyed by Microsoft at any time. Read the abysymal
Rubbish.
> EULAs, which are reputed to be getting even worse. Those who have
> accepted XP, and updates to W2000, are stuck with this risk and
> need to get away from it.
>
> All in all, now is a good time to switch to a Linux system.
--
exotic dancer, n.:
A girl who brings home the bacon a strip at a time.
wjbell
> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> So why should ordinary, normal every day people switch to Linux and be
>> what amounts to the square peg in the round hole?
>>
> The main reason people are flocking to GNU/Linux from the Windoze desktop is
> because Windoze sucks. We in the Linux community are constantly running
> into Windoze users that, even though they sometimes are finding it somewhat
> difficult, are putting an effort into unlearning the bad habits created by
> using a toy operating system like Windoze and are putting GNU/Linux on
> their desktops.
>
> Why would any ordinary computer user put the effort into trying to get
> vendor unsupported hardware working in Linux and take on a new learning
> curve (made more difficult because of the crap they're used to) if Windoze
> was adequate to their needs? The answer is obvious - Windoze doesn't meet
> their needs. They realize what a piece of shit "operating system" Windoze
> is and are prepared to work hard to get out from under it.
>
> I'd guess that 99.9% of existing Linux users at one time used Windoze. Now
> that they've discovered the vastly superior operating system, they'll never
> go back to Windoze. These millions of users all started out as "ordinary,
> normal every day people" and as enough of us keep hammering that square peg
> in the round hole, the round hole eventually starts to square up as we're
> seeing today.
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
While it is true that a lot of users thing Windows is crap, wait until
they get their hands on Linux.. Linux has come along way in user
friendliness, but their are still many instances where it get itself
into a bind and your stuck having to do some serious aministration to
fix it. If Windows users find it hard to admin a windows box, how do
you think they;ll feel on Linux?
Lost.
I see a lot of people trying Linux and going back to Windows.
Donn Miller
They might be confused by the myriad of confusing "choices" as well.
For example, which filesystem, which desktop, which window manager? If
you're a programmer, which toolkit? Those issues are already "solved"
on Windows, if you could call it that. Even experienced users here
aren't sure which filesystem works the best.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
ed
Kaylie Solomon <kiss...@morrisjp.com> wrote:
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
> Let's be honest, Linux has had years between the release of Windows XP
> and the upcoming release of Vista to gain a stronghold in the
> lucrative desktop arena. The truth is that Linux has failed miserably
> in it's attempt to gain desktop presence.
> By all accounts that can be found, Linux hovers in a death spiral at
> less than 0.5 percent of desktop usage. A miserable figure after 15
> years and certainly not an encouragement considering Windows XP was
> ready to be replaced 3 years ago by Vista. Of course the Linux pundits
> will flail their arms, shout and scream about Linux replacing Windows
> in some village in the middle of Africa, and that is admirable, facts
> are facts and Microsoft sells more units in 20 seconds than that
> entire village is worth. Then there is Munich, another Linux *success*
> story. One delay after another as the project spirals into a far more
munich are just changing spec.
> complex project than first anticipated and then we learn they will be
> converting one workstation per week, or something close to that. Do
> the math. It will take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck
> waiting patiently as the cleanup batter and when it is released it is
> going to knock Linux out of the desktop batters box once and for all.
> Linux will go right back where it belongs and that is as a tool for
> geeks and freaks and it will remain on their desktop until it is
> finally removed from life support and put out to pasture.
0.5% is a huge amount of use considering no one has taken out television
adverts or done any serious marketing. i consider that as a huge
success, look at all the marketing efforts from apple to gain some
stake. if apple gave that money to gnome or kde to market their desktops
and employ one or two people to do some other bug fixes then i'm sure
apple and gnu/linux would be neck and neck, at least.
i don't see what the point of your post was. it's just debating some
crystal ball theory.
> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the
> server and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
> applications.
its a perfect match for the desktop also. unless you want your desktop
experience to be looking for things to download that dont contain
viruses or adware. i'm happy to say that crap does not infect my desktop
or anything else i have to use.
> The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
i have NEVER heard anyone scream they want windows.
nice to see you drop this stinky troll and don't reply to any of the
followups.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://www.openbsdhacker.com
just another python person
If you were to look at your family tree, there is a 99.4% chance that
Mr. T will be somewhere on the top row.
Hadron Quark
And thats a fact. Ever try and configure printer sharing on a lan for
two ubuntu machines? No? Dont. What should be simple is a nightmare of
half assed security hacks.
Google up a good word about CUPS if you can.
Hadron Quark
You should read the thread where I asked what one would choose to write
a Linux wide GUI app. The usual bullshit replies about "choice" - but
the fact was the whole system is a hodge podge of conflicting APIs and
protocols. Its choice alright. Between a rock and a hard place.
Rick
... probably about the same.
>
> Lost.
No more than on Windows.
>
> I see a lot of people trying Linux and going back to Windows.
I see people trying Linux and staying.
--
Rick
Tarkin
Kaylie Solomon wrote:
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
No. The Linux desktop solution is driven from a very different business
model.
People created the Linux desktop to satisfy their own desire for a
Linux desktop.
They then shared their solution in the spirit of ' HTH '.
> Let's be honest, Linux has had years between the release of Windows XP and
> the upcoming release of Vista to gain a stronghold in the lucrative
> desktop arena. The truth is that Linux has failed miserably in it's
> attempt to gain desktop presence.
Linux is not a monolothic corporate entity. It is the name of a
kernel. It
is also a convenient label for a community of users of that kernel.
> By all accounts that can be found, Linux hovers in a death spiral at less
> than 0.5 percent of desktop usage. A miserable figure after 15 years and
> certainly not an encouragement considering Windows XP was ready to be
> replaced 3 years ago by Vista. Of course the Linux pundits will flail
> their arms, shout and scream about Linux replacing Windows in some village
> in the middle of Africa, and that is admirable, facts are facts and
> Microsoft sells more units in 20 seconds than that entire village is
> worth. Then there is Munich, another Linux *success* story. One delay
> after another as the project spirals into a far more complex project than
> first anticipated and then we learn they will be converting one
> workstation per week, or something close to that. Do the math. It will
> take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck waiting patiently as the
> cleanup batter and when it is released it is going to knock Linux out of
> the desktop batters box once and for all. Linux will go right back where
> it belongs and that is as a tool for geeks and freaks and it will remain
> on their desktop until it is finally removed from life support and put out
> to pasture.
>
Linux development is (nearly exclusively) driven by individuals, not
by marketshare. The Linux-based desktop is not in a 'death spiral'.
> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the server
> and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
> applications.
Those who develop (Linux) desktop distributions do so for very
different reasons than
the Microsoft coropoation. I doubt they will stop developing the Linux
desktop
simply because you believe your above statements.
> The public has spoken and they are not screaming "We Want Linux".
The public very rarely knows what it wants. Try this little experiment:
go to
your local fast-food retailer. Watch the people in line. Twenty or
thirty minutes
ought to do. Consider the ratio of people who know exactly what they
want, versus
those who stammer, those who ask if McDonalds serve the Whopper, those
who
ask Wendys if the serve the Big Mac, etc.
This post is obviously flamebait, and in other NG's surely would
have gone unanswered. It is interesting to see how easily 'Linux
Punits' are offended, and are so consumed with hatred and disgust
toward MS.
Cheers,
Tarkin
Rick
It's fairly easy.
BTW, Apple seems to like CUPS.
And, BTW, I just shared a printer on my
PCLinuxOS Box with XP and W2k machines. It was easy.. except for the
Windows part. Thankfully there were clear directions on how to do it
from the PCLOS site. Those directions would work for almost any Linux
distro.
--
Rick
Rick
Here's a concept: default.
Filesystem? Default.
Desktop? Default
WM? Default.
AS you gain Linux (or distro) experience, you can changes things.
--
Rick
Rick
Here's a concept Quark... Don't use it. Go back to your 'simpler' Windows
and have a field day.
--
Rick
wjbell
I /still/ can't get my ubuntu box to simply use a shared printer over my
network. It's a no-brainer on windows; add printer > browse to it on
network > add > done. Prints fine. On linux I can see it. The correct
drivers are in the list. But when I add it and try to print it locks up
the printer.
This would be a deal-breaker for a person thinking about switching to linux.
Kier
> This post is obviously flamebait, and in other NG's surely would
> have gone unanswered. It is interesting to see how easily 'Linux
> Punits' are offended, and are so consumed with hatred and disgust
> toward MS.
>
So might you be if you'd heard this kind of garbage over and over again
from trolls. Besides, that's what advocacy groups are for - arguing the
pros and cons, hopefully without all the lies in the OP.
--
Kier
Jerry McBride
> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
No.
--
Jerry McBride
Gordon
>
> And, BTW, I just shared a printer on my
> PCLinuxOS Box with XP and W2k machines. It was easy.. except for the
> Windows part. Thankfully there were clear directions on how to do it
> from the PCLOS site. Those directions would work for almost any Linux
> distro.
>
I have my printer running off a DLink print server and it was MUCH EASIER to
set it up in Linux (PCLinuxOS and SLED 10) than it was in Windows XP!
--
Registered Linux User no 240308
to email me invalidate the invalid!
Rick
If you added the printer using CUPS, when you add the printer, do a
network add, and ue the url http://servername:631/printers/printername.
Simple.
--
Rick
Rick
> Rick wrote:
>
>
>> And, BTW, I just shared a printer on my PCLinuxOS Box with XP and W2k
>> machines. It was easy.. except for the Windows part. Thankfully there
>> were clear directions on how to do it from the PCLOS site. Those
>> directions would work for almost any Linux distro.
>>
>>
> I have my printer running off a DLink print server and it was MUCH EASIER
> to set it up in Linux (PCLinuxOS and SLED 10) than it was in Windows XP!
I believe it.
--
Rick
Hadron Quark
Same situation. My thinkpad can see the printer, but I cant print from
it.
Google up shared printing on ubuntu and be amazed at the hassle people
are having. I am yet to find anyone who can even begin to tell me whats
wrong. Why? because CUPS sucks and is trying to be too many things to
too many people.
The funniest things is that even official ubuntu how tos talk about
using the CUPS web interface. But guess what? its disabled in Ubuntu
...... whoops.
--
Some settling may occur.
Hadron Quark
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 07:18:56 -0400
> Kaylie Solomon <kiss...@morrisjp.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Vista going to be the final nail in the Linux desktop solution?
>> Let's be honest, Linux has had years between the release of Windows XP
>> and the upcoming release of Vista to gain a stronghold in the
>> lucrative desktop arena. The truth is that Linux has failed miserably
>> in it's attempt to gain desktop presence.
>> By all accounts that can be found, Linux hovers in a death spiral at
>> less than 0.5 percent of desktop usage. A miserable figure after 15
>> years and certainly not an encouragement considering Windows XP was
>> ready to be replaced 3 years ago by Vista. Of course the Linux pundits
>> will flail their arms, shout and scream about Linux replacing Windows
>> in some village in the middle of Africa, and that is admirable, facts
>> are facts and Microsoft sells more units in 20 seconds than that
>> entire village is worth. Then there is Munich, another Linux *success*
>> story. One delay after another as the project spirals into a far more
>
> munich are just changing spec.
>
Why?
>> complex project than first anticipated and then we learn they will be
>> converting one workstation per week, or something close to that. Do
>> the math. It will take YEARS to do this project. Vista is on deck
>> waiting patiently as the cleanup batter and when it is released it is
>> going to knock Linux out of the desktop batters box once and for all.
>> Linux will go right back where it belongs and that is as a tool for
>> geeks and freaks and it will remain on their desktop until it is
>> finally removed from life support and put out to pasture.
>
> 0.5% is a huge amount of use considering no one has taken out television
> adverts or done any serious marketing. i consider that as a huge
> success, look at all the marketing efforts from apple to gain some
> stake. if apple gave that money to gnome or kde to market their desktops
> and employ one or two people to do some other bug fixes then i'm sure
> apple and gnu/linux would be neck and neck, at least.
You really think that a success? Its free for gods sake. As in beer.
>
> i don't see what the point of your post was. it's just debating some
> crystal ball theory.
>
>> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the
>> server and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
>> applications.
>
> its a perfect match for the desktop also. unless you want your desktop
> experience to be looking for things to download that dont contain
> viruses or adware. i'm happy to say that crap does not infect my desktop
> or anything else i have to use.
It will soon. When the virus writers turn their gaze to Linux.
wjbell
Did that. It sees the printer and can send a job to it. The printer
acts like it's going to print then locks. Not simple. Simple would be
like when I connect to the printer from a windows box. It just works.
notbob
> It will soon. When the virus writers turn their gaze to Linux.
The diff is, the linux community rallies round to patch the exploit in
days or even hours instead of M$'s months, years, or never.
I'm no linux zealot. M$ makes a pretty good product and Windows has
done a lot for computing. Unfortunately, M$ is starting to eat its
own. Let Windows bring more computer users into the fold. That's a
good thing. But, when those same users finally become knowledgeable
and proficient in computerese and eventually fed up with M$ trying to
dictate and intrude into their lives, they'll start looking for
alternatives. Windows has a such a huge overwhelming advantage in
sheer numbers, no competing OS may ever unseat it. But, as M$
continues to press it users under its increasingly tyrannical thumb,
resentment and defections will continue to grow. You'll notice no
one who is proficient in unix/linux is going over to the other side.
It's strictly a one way street.
nb
ed
Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > 0.5% is a huge amount of use considering no one has taken out
> > television adverts or done any serious marketing. i consider that as
> > a huge success, look at all the marketing efforts from apple to gain
> > some stake. if apple gave that money to gnome or kde to market their
> > desktops and employ one or two people to do some other bug fixes
> > then i'm sure apple and gnu/linux would be neck and neck, at least.
>
> You really think that a success? Its free for gods sake. As in beer.
yes, a huge one. that's like asking someone to change their engine block
so they can use a different fuel that costs just £200 less per three
years (given approximation of the current release trends).
> > i don't see what the point of your post was. it's just debating some
> > crystal ball theory.
> >
> >> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the
> >> server and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for
> >those > applications.
> >
> > its a perfect match for the desktop also. unless you want your
> > desktop experience to be looking for things to download that dont
> > contain viruses or adware. i'm happy to say that crap does not
> > infect my desktop or anything else i have to use.
>
> It will soon. When the virus writers turn their gaze to Linux.
totally different kettle of fish. nearly all installed software comes
direct from the vendor, be it rpm, apt etc. very little comes via means
of pirated downloads so the attack surface is much smaller.
what reason do i have for running a binary from you? what program do you
have that's so good that i would take that risk? on the other hand, if
a windows user got an infection, it is likely that it would soon spread
into their evil pirating circles for unknowing pirates to run.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://s5h.net/qf
just another perl hacker
Chuck heard about the movie "Cats Don't Dance" so he promptly skinned
a cat alive, wore its skin, and performed "Jesus Christ Superstar" on
Broadway.
flatfish+++
> All in all, now is a good time to switch to a Linux system.
The last 15 years have been good times to switch to Linux.
So where is everyone?
flatfish+++
>
> While it is true that a lot of users thing Windows is crap, wait until
> they get their hands on Linux.. Linux has come along way in user
> friendliness, but their are still many instances where it get itself
> into a bind and your stuck having to do some serious aministration to
> fix it. If Windows users find it hard to admin a windows box, how do
> you think they;ll feel on Linux?
>
> Lost.
>
> I see a lot of people trying Linux and going back to Windows.
I've seen a lot of *average* people try Linux and go back to Windows.
I have however seen quite a few technical types (even in the entertainment
biz) move to Linux for everything but DAW work and they have stuck with
Linux.
If Linux had Protools or Nuendo, these users would dump Windows completely.
ed
personally its down to freedom of programming languages and freedom of
choice. sitting in front of a windows computer is hard for me if i ever
have to do that, there's just no tools to do a job. if i want to make a
perl, python, ruby, sh, c or whatever program i have to go and find that
compiler, then a get vim then do a bunch of other things before i can
work. it's as simple as apt-get install python perl ruby gcc vim-gtk...
and im away in a few seconds.
things like apt-get make windows /hard/ to use and just not user
friendly. sure some small things have glorious interfaces, but that's
just crap i dont like to put up with.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://www.bsdwarez.net
just another python hacker
So Mr. T walks into a bar... The bar bends.
flatfish+++
Apple figured out how to make it work easily.
Linux users still haven't.
flatfish+++
Exactly!!
What the Linux people in COLA do not seem to understand is that people
just want to print.
They don't want to have to edit 1/2 a dozen text files by hancd, create
user id's and passwords for Cups and Samba etc....
They just want to print.....
ed
flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> Apple figured out how to make it work easily.
> Linux users still haven't.
whats all the whohar over? princap is simple to use. just get a printer
that has fonts and not some crappy gdi.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://www.ednevitable.co.uk
proud java hacker
A meteor didn't kill the dinosaurs, Chuck Norris did.
wjbell
Yeah, I remember right around 2001 people in this group were saying
stuff like, linux will be ready for the desktop by next year. Then next
year comes and they say the same thing, just one more year, you'll see.
Well, here it is almost 2007 and I don't see too many pre-installed
linux systems at Fry's, Best Buy or CompUSA. My Kodak digital cam
didn't come with a Linux driver CD. When I call my ISP they tell me my
Linux system is unsupported. Hmm...
notbob
> Well, here it is almost 2007 and I don't see too many pre-installed
> linux systems at Fry's, Best Buy or CompUSA....
This is no doubt due to the fact anyone intelligent enough to use Linux is
also smart enough to put together their own computer at considerable
savings rather that get ripped off paying outlandish prices for the
cheap crap any of the above retailers offer.
> My Kodak digital cam
> didn't come with a Linux driver CD.
Mine didn't either. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
> When I call my ISP they tell me my
> Linux system is unsupported.
Linux users typically know more than ISP support desks, so don't have
to listen to support droid cop-outs.
Tell us, are you really this dumb or are you getting shots?
nb
wjbell
"Ready for the desktop" means it's ready for users that don't compile
kernels in their spare time. It means you can go to the store and buy a
plug-and-play device to take home and use right away rather than spend 3
hours searching for the "fix", it means you can call your support
channels and get help, that includes support driods.
Nice Linux FUD, though.
Bob Hauck
<qadro...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Google up shared printing on ubuntu and be amazed at the hassle people
> are having.
You know, that's a genuine puzzlement to me. I held off using CUPS for
a long time because of people saying it was so hard, but once I switched
over a few years back I found that basically the complaints were way
overblown.
I think a lot of it comes from people assuming it much like Windows
printing. It is not. Basically, clients always send Postscript and the
server does any necessary conversions, exactly the opposite of Windows
printing.
In the common case of a regular printer being shared by the machine it
is connected to, you do not need to install anything, or configure
anything, or do much of anything at all on the clients. If you start by
saying "I installed the driver on my client and..." chances are you're
way off track already.
The way it works is this. You set up the server first. Get it to
print, make sure permissions are correct so users can control jobs, etc.
Then you enable browsing and allow access to the local network. The
clients should then all see the printer and at that point you are done.
If you have a printer with a built-in network interface, it is still
easiest to designate a machine as a server, just so you don't have to go
around and configure every machine. Most networks with a printer that
has a direct ethernet interface will already have a server anyway.
But if you don't do that and have the clients print directly to the
printer, or to a Windows box that controls a printer, you more or less
just have a bunch of standalone machines where the configurations ought
to be basically identical. So I'm still not seeing the difficulty.
Everybody points to ESR's rant, but the one thing that tripped him up,
the lack of a way to enable browsing from the web interface, has been
fixed. That combined with unclear documentation was pretty much the
entire reason for his troubles.
> I am yet to find anyone who can even begin to tell me whats wrong.
Perhaps you could describe the symptoms. Is the printer connected to a
machine running CUPS, or to something else? Can the server print? Is
the server running CUPS?
You know, a common troll tactic is to visit the support forums to find
out about problems, then come here and pretend to have that problem and
use it as a reason why "Linux sucks" while refusing to provide details.
I'm just saying.
Like wjbell for instance. Maybe his printer is not supported (he has an
amazing talent for finding unsupported hardware...see "troll tactics"),
or maybe Windows has some interoperability issues with IPP...nah, could
never happen. Linux just sucks, that's the ticket.
> Why? because CUPS sucks and is trying to be too many things to too
> many people.
There you go again. It couldn't possibly be a misunderstanding on your
part, or inexperience, or an unsupported printer, or anything like that.
No, if it doesn't work for you the software must just "suck". Yet
somehow Apple seems to think it works well enough to become the standard
on the "easy to use" OS.
Imagine that.
PS: Regarding Ubuntu disabling the web interface, if it is the same as
Debian it is disabled by default for the network but not for the local
machine (127.0.0.1).
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Have you had enough of George Bush yet?
-| http://www.haucks.org/
flatfish+++
Did it ever occur to you kier that people outside of the quackery known as
comp.os.linux.advocacy might actually perceive Linux this way and that is
why you keep hearing the same thing over and over again?
You zealots are all nice and protected within the confines of
comp.os.linux.advocacy where the real truth about Linux is never uttered.
Take your same arguments to the real world and you will be laughed at,
along the lines of:
Linux?
What's that?
flatfish+++
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:24:09 -0400
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>
>> Apple figured out how to make it work easily.
>> Linux users still haven't.
>
> whats all the whohar over? princap is simple to use. just get a printer
> that has fonts and not some crappy gdi.
That pretty much said it all....
So where is all this *choice* I am supposed to have with Linux?
Looks like my printer choices are limited.
TheLetterK
I can't repeat this problem with an HP Photosmart P1100.
TheLetterK
Yes, because printer sharing is common among the computer illiterate.
Yeah, right, whatever.
Bob Hauck
> I have my printer running off a DLink print server and it was MUCH
> EASIER to set it up in Linux (PCLinuxOS and SLED 10) than it was in
> Windows XP!
Oh, dear, you did it wrong.
What you're supposed to do is hang an unsupported but brand-name printer
off a Windows box. Then you try to make it work over the network with
CUPS by installing a driver meant for another printer in the same
vendor's line. It is best if the model number differs by only one or
two digits.
When that fails you go to COLA and complain about how poorly CUPS works,
how it is hard to set up and makes your printer lock up yet Windows can
print to it just fine. Yell "CUPS sucks and will doom Linux to being
used by geeks in the server room".
When people ask for details in order to help, become evasive and accuse
them of being part of the "COLA Lintard Tag-Team", then change either the
subject or your nym.
ed
theres tonnes of postscript printers. i never said you had choice. you
get one choice, and thats the right choice.
what moron would expect a closed source printer to work for free? that's
just stupid. if it does work, then you're lucky. i recommend you
research the printer a bit first.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://s5h.net/u?l
just another bash person
If Chuck Norris was a hooker, he would make more than every hooker in
history.
Rick
Me too.
> They don't want to have to edit 1/2 a dozen text files by hancd,
I didn't edit files.
> create user id's and passwords for Cups and Samba etc....
YOu don't have to create user ids and passwords for CUPS and Samba.
>
> They just want to print.....
--
Rick
Rick
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:56:53 +0000, Rick wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:47:22 +0200, Hadron Quark wrote:
>>
(snip)
>>> Google up a good word about CUPS if you can.
>>
>> It's fairly easy.
>>
>> BTW, Apple seems to like CUPS.
>
> Apple figured out how to make it work easily. Linux users still haven't.
The users don't have to. Others have already done it.
--
Rick
The Ghost In The Machine
<wjb...@none.net>
wrote
on Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:05:21 GMT
<Bjt_g.261$s6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>:
It also means that most major department stores will carry
preloaded Linux computers alongside Microsoft Windows
computers and that Linux can be spoken in the same
paragraph as Windows without everyone looking at you funny.
For what it's worth, Windows has name recognition,
bought at a high price (marketing dollars and humorous
BSOD depictions). Linux is nowhere near that.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows. Multi-platform(1), multi-tasking(1), multi-user(1).
(1) if one defines "multi" as "exactly one".
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Kier
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:05:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:55:13 -0700, Tarkin wrote:
>>
>>> This post is obviously flamebait, and in other NG's surely would
>>> have gone unanswered. It is interesting to see how easily 'Linux
>>> Punits' are offended, and are so consumed with hatred and disgust
>>> toward MS.
>>>
>>
>> So might you be if you'd heard this kind of garbage over and over again
>> from trolls. Besides, that's what advocacy groups are for - arguing the
>> pros and cons, hopefully without all the lies in the OP.
>
> Did it ever occur to you kier that people outside of the quackery known as
> comp.os.linux.advocacy might actually perceive Linux this way and that is
> why you keep hearing the same thing over and over again?
Unlikely, since most people don't know a lot about Linux. They certainly
aren't likely to think Vista is going to kill Linux, why should it?
They're not remotely connected, and Linux is here, now, usable and being
used, while Vista has yet to prove itself.
>
> You zealots are all nice and protected within the confines of
> comp.os.linux.advocacy where the real truth about Linux is never uttered.
What 'real truth'? You don't give us 'real truth' and nor does the writer
of the troll post, who may well be you anyway - it certainly uses the same
lame lies and half-truths you spout over and over again, while you pretend
to be a Linux advocate.
>
> Take your same arguments to the real world and you will be laughed at,
> along the lines of:
>
> Linux?
> What's that?
That is *not* the same as what the troll posted. Someone asks me, What's
that? I say, It's an alternative OS to Windows. If they want to hear more,
I tell them a bit more, maybe show them a Live CD, point them to a website
or two.
I've never had anyone laugh at it. Sometimes they aren't interested, and
that's fine, it's their choice, but no one laughs. Why should they? You
seem to think everyone is stupid but you.
And my name is Kier, capital K. Get it right next time.
--
Kier
yttrx
Huh. In 2003, I converted an exchange cluster to debian linux running
exim, saving the company for whom the service was performed nearly a
million dollars per quarter for three straight quarters. My cut ended up
coming to about ten percent of that for the job. I did it alone in just
shy of five weeks. (yeah, it was slow going, we're talking about nearly
100,000 accounts shoved into a single exchange cluster that had to be
reorganized).
They did indeed say "Linux? What's that?"
The question isn't what matters. It's the answer that matters, you
fucking moron.
-----yttrx
Hadron Quark
> The way it works is this. You set up the server first. Get it to
> print, make sure permissions are correct so users can control jobs, etc.
> Then you enable browsing and allow access to the local network. The
> clients should then all see the printer and at that point you are done.
>
> Perhaps you could describe the symptoms. Is the printer connected to a
> machine running CUPS, or to something else? Can the server print? Is
> the server running CUPS?
>
> You know, a common troll tactic is to visit the support forums to find
> out about problems, then come here and pretend to have that problem and
> use it as a reason why "Linux sucks" while refusing to provide details.
>
Thanks for your genuine concern - a pity you had to taint it with usual
COLA paranoia.
You know that CUPS gives people trouble. Its well documented. CUPS is
even disallowed in base UBuntu - you have to reallow it - ridiculous
when you consider that nearly every printer how to involves using CUPS.
Anyway, I fell over a solution in my google travels and have documented
it in alt.os.linux.ubuntu
cheers anyway.
Hadron Quark
> On 2006-10-21, wjbell <wjb...@none.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, here it is almost 2007 and I don't see too many pre-installed
>> linux systems at Fry's, Best Buy or CompUSA....
>
> This is no doubt due to the fact anyone intelligent enough to use Linux is
> also smart enough to put together their own computer at considerable
> savings rather that get ripped off paying outlandish prices for the
> cheap crap any of the above retailers offer.
Its more expensive to put your own together actually. Or was last time I
priced the parts against a stock DELL machine.
Rick
>>>> Google up a good word about CUPS if you can.
>>>
>>> I /still/ can't get my ubuntu box to simply use a shared printer over
>>> my network. It's a no-brainer on windows; add printer > browse to it
>>> on network > add > done. Prints fine. On linux I can see it. The
>>> correct drivers are in the list. But when I add it and try to print it
>>> locks up the printer.
>>>
>>> This would be a deal-breaker for a person thinking about switching to
>>> linux.
>>
>> If you added the printer using CUPS, when you add the printer, do a
>> network add, and ue the url http://servername:631/printers/printername.
>> Simple.
>>
>>
> Did that. It sees the printer and can send a job to it. The printer acts
> like it's going to print then locks. Not simple. Simple would be like
> when I connect to the printer from a windows box. It just works.
I many cases you don't just connect the printer in windows, in many cases
it doesn't just work.
--
Rick
Rick
Dealing with the network effects of an illegally maintained monopoly.
--
Rick
la...@portcommodore.com
Kaylie Solomon wrote:
[snip!]
>
> Linux really should forget about the desktop and concentrate on the server
> and embedded market because Linux is a perfect match for those
> applications.
In that light Microsoft then should forget about videogames, the
internet and web servers (please!), search engines and digital music,
as it has had a pretty crappy track record in those fields for as many
years as well.
They should concentrate on the desktop OS market, because.. um.. thats
what the were doing... sometimes.
wjbell
Always worked for me. I've _never_ had a problem printing with a
windows box.
notbob
> Its more expensive to put your own together actually. Or was last time I
> priced the parts against a stock DELL machine.
I onced worked for a RAM manufacturer supplying Dell with RAM sticks
for their PCs. Dell was returning hundreds of sticks as defective. I
was doing the restesting and every returned stick turned out to be
perfectly good. Not a single failure. Turns out the problem was
Dell's cost cutting by using ultra cheapo sockets with inferior
contacts. Considering our test bed was nothing but a standard Taiwan
dime a dozen m/b, those Dell components had to have been seriously
sub-standard.
Good friend of mine bought a rather pricey Dell PC. After couple
months it went belly up. Not encouraging. They sent a replacement,
but sent it to the wrong address. I'm not real impressed with Dell.
nb
TheLetterK
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2006-10-21, wjbell <wjb...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, here it is almost 2007 and I don't see too many pre-installed
>>> linux systems at Fry's, Best Buy or CompUSA....
>>
>> This is no doubt due to the fact anyone intelligent enough to use
>> Linux is
>> also smart enough to put together their own computer at considerable
>> savings rather that get ripped off paying outlandish prices for the
>> cheap crap any of the above retailers offer.
>>
>>> My Kodak digital cam didn't come with a Linux driver CD.
>>
>> Mine didn't either. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
>>
>>> When I call my ISP they tell me my Linux system is unsupported.
>>
>> Linux users typically know more than ISP support desks, so don't have
>> to listen to support droid cop-outs.
>>
>> Tell us, are you really this dumb or are you getting shots?
>>
>> nb
>>
>
> "Ready for the desktop" means it's ready for users that don't compile
> kernels in their spare time.
I haven't compiled a kernel since the last time I installed Gentoo. It's
certainly not a requirement for the vast majority of distributions.
> It means you can go to the store and buy a
> plug-and-play device to take home and use right away
I don't use any hardware that doesn't work OOTB with Debian. It wasn't
even terribly difficult to assure that it does work. Just another point
to compare when deciding what hardware I plan to buy. Do you often go
around buying random bits of hardware without any research? I
didn't--even when I only ran Windows.
TheLetterK
That's only true at the extreme low end. I can't beat Dell at $500, but
I can definitely beat them at $800.
Rick
-You- are not the world. Some people have problems. I had the same error
messages on both the XP and 2k box.
--
Rick
wjbell
> The question isn't what matters. It's the answer that matters, you
> fucking moron.
You know a person has no stance or debating ability when they
consistently have to use personal attacks as part of their argument.
wjbell
But you said it was "simple" to add a printer using CUPS. I'm telling
you it's not, but in windows it is simple for me. (and everyone I know)
So I'm speaking for myself.
That clear it up for ya, Chief?
wjbell
*I* don't, but I'm sure many do.
notbob
> I don't use any hardware that doesn't work OOTB with Debian. It wasn't
> even terribly difficult to assure that it does work. Just another point
> to compare when deciding what hardware I plan to buy.
That's another major problem for linux users. Products designed for
Windows instead of for PCs. Modems are a good expample. Winmodems
are typically junk. This because most cut corners by utilizing Windoze
software and the PCs CPU to do their job instead of doing it for
themself. These cards are useless with linux, it not designed to
support dependent-on-Wintel hardware.
nb
yttrx
Those are called "ad hominems" there, wjbell. And you, without exception,
have no stance or debating ability despite your refusal to resort
to ad hominems, you microcephalic toad.
-----yttrx
yttrx
Rick, just so you know, wjbell constantly lies about pretty much everything.
-----yttrx
yttrx
You're a lying sack of shit, pusshead.
It IS simple to add a printer using CUPS, and if you cant figure it out,
its because youre an idiot.
-----yttrx
Rick
> Bob Hauck <postm...@localhost.localdomain> writes:
>
>> The way it works is this. You set up the server first. Get it to
>> print, make sure permissions are correct so users can control jobs, etc.
>> Then you enable browsing and allow access to the local network. The
>> clients should then all see the printer and at that point you are done.
>>
>> Perhaps you could describe the symptoms. Is the printer connected to a
>> machine running CUPS, or to something else? Can the server print? Is
>> the server running CUPS?
>>
>> You know, a common troll tactic is to visit the support forums to find
>> out about problems, then come here and pretend to have that problem and
>> use it as a reason why "Linux sucks" while refusing to provide details.
>>
>>
> Thanks for your genuine concern - a pity you had to taint it with usual
> COLA paranoia.
>
> You know that CUPS gives people trouble. Its well documented. CUPS is even
> disallowed in base UBuntu - you have to reallow it - ridiculous when you
> consider that nearly every printer how to involves using CUPS.
What do you mean disallowed? Are you saying there is no printing from base
Ubuntu installs?
>
> Anyway, I fell over a solution in my google travels and have documented it
> in alt.os.linux.ubuntu
>
> cheers anyway.
--
Rick
wjbell
Another clever reply from one of the Cola Critical Thinkers. AKA, the
cola Team of Utterly Retarded, Daft and Simple. (TURDS)
wjbell
Your attitude and lack of class is the single most reason linux will
fail for average users.
Oh, and most of us are out of gradeschool. I can see you're not. Maybe
your mommy should limit your internet access?
yttrx
Oh, IM making linux fail? Sweet!
> Oh, and most of us are out of gradeschool. I can see you're not. Maybe
> your mommy should limit your internet access?
Goddamn you're a stupid, lying sack of worthless shit, aintcha.
-----yttrx
wjbell
Hey everbody, meet yttrx. He's a goth, body piercing freak from
Brooklyn. Here's something I've found so far:
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A20429/yttrx/index.html
Sounds good, bro. What will you do for your next trick, put in some lip
or earlobe spacers like an african tribesman? God, you're pathetic, and
a freak. Guess you fit right in to cola.
Hadron Quark
I can only counter you by saying in the last 2 companies I worked, we
bought only DELL. Desktops for development and servers. Never a
problem. We had a lot more trouble with HP and Digital PCs.
DELL tend to be the stock machine of choice for most SW houses I have
visited.
--
Price does not include taxes.
Hadron Quark
Rick is a proven liar.
Windows has 98% of the desktop market and he wants to tell us that
printing doesn't work. Puhleaze.
As it happened I got my remote printing working. What a minefield of
conflicting howto's and "advice" to pick through. Still, now its done
I'm happy. One thing is for sure, when you get something wprking in
Linux working you want to tell everyone about it.
I showed my missus and she looked at me as if I'm mad - apparently it
"just works" with her mac and pc system at work. She wasnt impressed at
me hacking cupsd.conf
The Ghost In The Machine
<wjb...@none.net>
wrote
on Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:59:37 GMT
<ZSv_g.14890$GR....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>:
I have no idea why you two are attacking each other, and
I would of course ask as to why any of this is all that
relevant to yttrx's very profitable (to him, and to his
employer) conversion of an Exchange cluster into a Debian
exim mail handling system.
I would also wonder how yttrx accounted for that "saved
a million per quarter"; hopefully that's slightly easier
to answer. Presumably part of that is no more licensing,
part of that is no more worrying about whether viruses can
get into the system and infect things, and part of it might
simply be the deferrment of acquisition of new equipment.
Color me somewhat curious.
There is a flip side: AFAIK exim does not have the ability
to handle WebMail (a la Remote Outlook). Presumably other
packages can pick up the slack, if yttrx's employer (or
former employer, since this sounds like it was a contract
job) really needs such.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows. Multi-platform(1), multi-tasking(1), multi-user(1).
(1) if one defines "multi" as "exactly one".
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
notbob
I'm not saying Dell isn't as good or better an OTS machine than the competition,
only that I'm more comfortable building my own. I know what goes into
my system and make sure I can get satisfaction in case of a problem.
I've yet to pay more. You want cheap? I know a surplus
place that sells new barebones boxes at embarrassingly low prices. They
all seem to work pretty good, too. But, I wouldn't buy one for myself.
nb
Hadron Quark
yttrx probably doesn't even know that CUPS interface is disabled in Ubuntu.
--
"And spellchecker won;t help." : Roy Schwestowitz from comp.os.linux.advocacy.