Erik Funkenbusch violates usenet netiquette (was can't use Outlook Express)
Jerry Nash
Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
Oh Well.
Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap
your quoted text so it's readable? I mean, really now,
use your head. What's the *reason* for quoting in the
first place?
Oh yeah, and by the way, Erik's quoting is breaking usenet
netiquette. Read the sections on wrapping of quoted
text:
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
"Summary: if you must re-wrap quoted text, take the quote
character(s) into account."
Roy Culley
jn...@memento.org (Jerry Nash) writes:
>
>
> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>
> Oh Well.
>
>
> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap
> your quoted text so it's readable? I mean, really now,
> use your head. What's the *reason* for quoting in the
> first place?
EF is messing up his posts deliberately. As he so often tells us
he's been using usenet for years. His quotes never used to be so
badly mangled. It just shows how desperate he is these days.
As lying and spreading FUD don't work any more he is resorting
to such a petty way to disrupt this newsgroup.
> Oh yeah, and by the way, Erik's quoting is breaking usenet
> netiquette. Read the sections on wrapping of quoted
> text:
>
> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
>
> "Summary: if you must re-wrap quoted text, take the quote
> character(s) into account."
That link should be in the cola FAQ.
Erik Funkenbusch
news:slrna7nvg4...@memento.org...
And what makes you think this is an established and accepted netiquette?
Peter Köhlmann
What makes you think your shitty wrapped quotings are anywhere near
acceptable? Shouldn't you start to use some real software and not these
Microsoft toys?
Peter
--
Outlook Express, who do you want to infect today?
Kenneth Downs
Noted. Thanks.
--
Ken
oSigBlock = createobject("sigblock")
Darren
Then try this one on for size ..
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands/nnq/nquote.html
If you don't like this one, there are a few dozen more I can throw at
you.
Craig Kelley
> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
Can anyone?
Outlook Express is a piece of garbage. It's default mail settings are
atrocious. That it can't properly wrap quoted text is a sign that the
authors didn't (1) know anything about usenet or e-mail and (2) do not
use such applications of the internet on a regular basis.
--
It is financially more expensive to go to prison than to attend Harvard.
Craig Kelley -- kell...@isu.edu
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger i...@inconnu.isu.edu for PGP block
Erik Funkenbusch
news:pan.2002.02.26.18...@Frankenstein.com...
That one works, and appears to be an news.* hiearchy FAQ.
However, nowhere in the document does it say that you should requote
anything.
Jerry Nash
Mr. Rude: Bwwwwwaaaaaappppppppp!!!
Waiter: Sir! It is not acceptable to fart loudly in our
fine restaurant.
Mr. Rude: Oh yeah! Please show me your established and
accepted restaurant etiguette guide.
Roy Culley
Look EF has been posting long enough to know what is acceptable and
what is not. He would be flamed on any newsgroup for posting badly
mangled quotes.
He is doing it deliberately. His sole objective now is to cause as
much disruption on cola as possible.
Why anyone continues to reply to his mangled posts beats me. We all
know he lies. Spreads more FUD than anyone else and is the biggest MS
apologist in their pay. Just ignore the guy. That will hurt him where
it hurts most, in his wallet.
Jerry Nash
This is taken directly from the URL Darren supplied
at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands/nnq/nquote.html-
-------------
Q1: What is "quoting" in newsgroup postings?
A1: When you respond to a posting by using your newsreading
software's "reply" command (perhaps called "respond" or "followup"),
it's usually helpful to include ("quote") some of
the text from the posting that you're responding to, to help
set the context for your own comments. For that reason, most
newsreading software automatically quotes the entire posting
and prefixes each line with a ">" symbol, or it can be configured
to do so.
Usually you should use this quoted material only as a
starting point, and edit it as discussed below.
Q2: How should I use the quoted text and arrange it with my
own text?
A2: In a nutshell, you should quote clearly and selectively,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
attribute those quotes properly to the person who wrote them,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and place your comments after the comment(s) that you are
responding to, like this:
Newsgroups: alt.tv.gilligans-island
From: Island Fan
Subject: Re: Gilligan's Island Theme Song
Trivia Wiz wrote:
> Who is named in the original theme song of Gilligan's
> Island?
Gilligan, Skipper, the Howells, and Ginger.
-------------------
You, Erik, are wrapping your quoted lines in a way that violates the
"clearly and selectively" guideline and your wrapping is BREAKING the
"attribute those quotes properly to the person who wrote them"
guidelines. Plain and simple, Mr Rude.
Just quit your belly aching and either learn to configure your
Microsoft Express or get a newsreader that works correctly.
There are a boatload of really nice newsreaders that come
with Linux. Yous should try some.
Darren
Actually, if you look at Question and Answer Six (Q6/A6) .. it states:
"Different numbers of "quote marks" (>) at the beginning of each line
indicate different quoting levels. Following one level of quote marks
upwards leads you to the attribution line for that level.
"Make sure you keep the attribution lines for all the quoting levels in
your response. Most people don't like having words incorrectly attributed
to them. If an attribution line is missing from a posting that you're
responding to, it's often a good idea to insert one carefully by hand, if
you can figure out for sure who wrote the quoted text; or at least put in
something like "Somebody wrote:".
"If your quotes all have proper attribution lines, it's completely
unnecessary to quote people's "signatures" at the ends of their postings,
so delete them. They just take up space. (Unless, of course, you're
commenting on the signature itself!)"
Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
And this also relates to Question and Answer Ten (Q10/A10):
"It basically comes down to a question of etiquette, if you view the
fundamental principle of etiquette as "Thou shalt not make life
unnecessarily difficult for other people," and factor in the number of
people who may read your postings."
Erik Funkenbusch
No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
> And this also relates to Question and Answer Ten (Q10/A10):
>
> "It basically comes down to a question of etiquette, if you view the
> fundamental principle of etiquette as "Thou shalt not make life
> unnecessarily difficult for other people," and factor in the number of
> people who may read your postings."
I don't find it difficult to read my quoted text.
Darren
If you'll look above at the extracts of mine you'll notice my quotes get
a mix of '>' and '>>' for the same quote extract .. that is a screw-up of
quoting levels .. and yours are the only posts that have that problem
from the Winvocate camp ..
Jerry Nash
>"Darren" <Darre...@Frankenstein.com> wrote in message
>news:pan.2002.02.26.20....@Frankenstein.com...
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:07:36 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>
>> > "Darren" <Darre...@Frankenstein.com> wrote in message
>> > news:pan.2002.02.26.18...@Frankenstein.com...
>> >> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:13:22 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Jerry Nash" <jn...@memento.org> wrote in message
>> >> > news:slrna7nvg4...@memento.org...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh Well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap your
>quoted
>> > text
>> >> >> so it's readable? I mean, really now, use your head. What's
>the
^^^ Eriks's quoting screwed up here
>> >> >> *reason* for quoting in the first place?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh yeah, and by the way, Erik's quoting is breaking usenet
>> > netiquette.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here
>> >> >> Read the sections on wrapping of quoted text:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Summary: if you must re-wrap quoted text, take the quote
>> >> >> character(s) into account."
>> >> >
>> >> > And what makes you think this is an established and accepted
>> >> > netiquette?
>> >> Then try this one on for size ..
>> >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands/nnq/nquote.html
>> >>
>> >> If you don't like this one, there are a few dozen more I can throw
>at
^^ Eriks's quoting screwed up here
>> >> you.
>> >
>> > That one works, and appears to be an news.* hiearchy FAQ.
>> >
>> > However, nowhere in the document does it say that you should requote
>> > anything.
>>
>> Actually, if you look at Question and Answer Six (Q6/A6) .. it states:
>>
>> "Different numbers of "quote marks" (>) at the beginning of each line
>> indicate different quoting levels. Following one level of quote marks
>> upwards leads you to the attribution line for that level.
>>
>> "Make sure you keep the attribution lines for all the quoting levels
>in
^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here.
>> your response. Most people don't like having words incorrectly
>attributed
^^^^^^^^^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here.
>> to them. If an attribution line is missing from a posting that you're
>> responding to, it's often a good idea to insert one carefully by hand,
>if
^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here.
>> you can figure out for sure who wrote the quoted text; or at least put
>in
^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here.
>> something like "Somebody wrote:".
>>
>> "If your quotes all have proper attribution lines, it's completely
>> unnecessary to quote people's "signatures" at the ends of their
>postings,
^^^^^^^^^ Erik's quoting screwed up here.
>> so delete them. They just take up space. (Unless, of course, you're
>> commenting on the signature itself!)"
>>
>> Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
>
>No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
>
No, there are not there. See above.
>> And this also relates to Question and Answer Ten (Q10/A10):
>>
>> "It basically comes down to a question of etiquette, if you view the
>> fundamental principle of etiquette as "Thou shalt not make life
>> unnecessarily difficult for other people," and factor in the number of
>> people who may read your postings."
>
>I don't find it difficult to read my quoted text.
>
That's because you more stubborn than a pitbull terrier whose sunk its
teeth into a car tire. You're blinded by your stubborness.
GreyCloud
Well, now that someone has found a netiquette link like you
asked, now you want to quibble over whether its' an
established and accepted behaviour.
GreyCloud
I see what you guys are getting at now. Yes, I know how he
does it now... all he has to do is hit enter and things get
messed up. He jumped my butt for doing the same thing a
while back and told me to let my newsreader handle the
formatting and quoting.
GreyCloud
>
> jn...@memento.org (Jerry Nash) writes:
>
> > Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>
> Can anyone?
>
> Outlook Express is a piece of garbage. It's default mail settings are
> atrocious. That it can't properly wrap quoted text is a sign that the
> authors didn't (1) know anything about usenet or e-mail and (2) do not
> use such applications of the internet on a regular basis.
>
Yep. Looks like M$ is crumbling into the dust... the
decline in m$ has become apparent.
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
Why should Erik, a proven liar, Wintroll amd spammer make
the quotes of others as easy to read as we do ?
Its just another weapon in his attempt to subvert the Cola
charter.
The offical C.O.L.A. Charter :-
"comp.os.linux.advocacy"
"Benefits of Linux compared to other operating systems."
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX. Debian 2.2 kernel 2.2.20
Free Micro burner: http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>In article <slrna7nvg4...@memento.org>,
> jn...@memento.org (Jerry Nash) writes:
>>
>>
>> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>>
>> Oh Well.
>>
>>
>> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap
>> your quoted text so it's readable? I mean, really now,
>> use your head. What's the *reason* for quoting in the
>> first place?
>
>EF is messing up his posts deliberately. As he so often tells us
>he's been using usenet for years. His quotes never used to be so
>badly mangled. It just shows how desperate he is these days.
>
>As lying and spreading FUD don't work any more he is resorting
>to such a petty way to disrupt this newsgroup.
Couldn't agree more, I've just said the same thing in a previous
post!
mjcr
on Tue, 26 Feb 2002 at 21:58 GMT,
Roy Culley <r...@swissonline.ch> wrote:
Thanks, Roy, it has been noted. There is also another site linked to from
with the same comments, the other site is linked to from the IFC website. I
am going to try to determine which is the original, or "official" document
for citation in the FAQ and Primer.
--
I run Linux, no bloody RedHat, Debian, Slackware, or Corel, just Linux.
May all that you wish upon me and mine be visited upon you ten fold.
rapskat
Nash" - dump details are as follows...
Etiquette refers to de facto rules and standards appying to social
interaction. Persons that deliberately ignore these rules are normally
sociopaths looking for attention via any means.
The more attention that people pay them for their blatant disregard for
the accepted practices, the more they are wont to disregard them since the
ploy is working. If they are ignored, chances are they will change
tactics.
The most effective method to coerce a person to abide by social standards
is to ignore them until they do. If they ask for something and don't say
"please", then don't give them what they asked for. They will start
saying please eventually.
--
rapskat - 10:15pm up 1 day, 14:24, 3 users, load average: 0.19, 0.16, 0.15
In Chaos there is power. -- Anonymous
Tim Smith
>> Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
>
>No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
Wrong. The word "quoted" and the word "text" are both given with the
wrong number of levels in this excerpt from one of your posts.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|> >> >> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap your|
|quoted |
|> > text |
|> >> >> so it's readable? |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
There's no excuse for this. I'm posting from Windows at the moment,
just like you, and my posts are all formated flawlessly.
--Tim Smith
Jim Richardson
You aren't using OE, which is quite possibly, the most bug ridden,
crappy piece of software ever to be imprinted onto a CD.
Or maybe Erik doesn't know how to configure it, who knows.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, for when you need to get work done, Or you could just play UT...
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:07:36 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
>>"Darren" <Darre...@Frankenstein.com> wrote in message
>>news:pan.2002.02.26.18...@Frankenstein.com...
>>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:13:22 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>>
>>> > "Jerry Nash" <jn...@memento.org> wrote in message
>>> > news:slrna7nvg4...@memento.org...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>>> >>
>>> >> Oh Well.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap your quoted
>>text
>>> >> so it's readable? I mean, really now, use your head. What's the
>>> >> *reason* for quoting in the first place?
>>> >>
>>> >> Oh yeah, and by the way, Erik's quoting is breaking usenet
>>netiquette.
>>> >> Read the sections on wrapping of quoted text:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
>>> >>
>>> >> "Summary: if you must re-wrap quoted text, take the quote
>>> >> character(s) into account."
>>> >
>>> > And what makes you think this is an established and accepted
>>> > netiquette?
>A2: In a nutshell, you should quote clearly and selectively,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>attribute those quotes properly to the person who wrote them,
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and place your comments after the comment(s) that you are
>responding to, like this:
>
> Newsgroups: alt.tv.gilligans-island
> From: Island Fan
> Subject: Re: Gilligan's Island Theme Song
>
> Trivia Wiz wrote:
> > Who is named in the original theme song of Gilligan's
> > Island?
>
> Gilligan, Skipper, the Howells, and Ginger.
> -------------------
>
>
>You, Erik, are wrapping your quoted lines in a way that violates the
>"clearly and selectively" guideline and your wrapping is BREAKING the
>"attribute those quotes properly to the person who wrote them"
>guidelines. Plain and simple, Mr Rude.
>
Game set and match, and Erik Funkenbusch, liar, spammer and Wintroll
looses.
Johan Lindquist
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> suddenly blurted:
>>
>> "Summary: if you must re-wrap quoted text, take the quote
>> character(s) into account."
>
> And what makes you think this is an established and accepted
> netiquette?
The fact that /everyone/ except you has a problem with your quoted
material would give you some sort of hint that what you're doing isn't
an accepted practise. On the other hand, if you don't want people to
be able to make heads or tails of what you are replying to and just
assume you are correct and answering the real questions that's been
posed to you, your strategy is a clever one.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
7:59am up 76 days, 14:30, 4 users, load average: 2.07, 2.23, 2.26
$ cat /dev/bollocks
whiteboard killer models
Johan Lindquist
> news:pan.2002.02.26.20....@Frankenstein.com...
>>states:
>>
>> "Different numbers of "quote marks" (>) at the beginning of each
>> line indicate different quoting levels. Following one level of
>> quote marks upwards leads you to the attribution line for that
>> level.
>>
>> "Make sure you keep the attribution lines for all the quoting
>> levels
> in
I don't understand your comment here, Erik.
>> your response. Most people don't like having words incorrectly
> attributed
I don't understand your comment here, Erik.
>> to them. If an attribution line is missing from a posting that
>> you're responding to, it's often a good idea to insert one
>> carefully by hand,
> if
I don't understand your comment here, Erik.
>> you can figure out for sure who wrote the quoted text; or at least
>> put
> in
I don't understand your comment here, Erik.
>> something like "Somebody wrote:".
>>
>> "If your quotes all have proper attribution lines, it's completely
>> unnecessary to quote people's "signatures" at the ends of their
> postings,
I don't understand your comment here, Erik.
>> so delete them. They just take up space. (Unless, of course, you're
>> commenting on the signature itself!)"
>>
>> Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
> No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
Your replies are confusing. Did you mean to make a point with the
"if", "in", "attributed" and "postings," comments you made? I'm
assuming they were your comments since they are on your qouting level.
>> And this also relates to Question and Answer Ten (Q10/A10):
>>
>> "It basically comes down to a question of etiquette, if you view
>> the fundamental principle of etiquette as "Thou shalt not make life
>> unnecessarily difficult for other people," and factor in the number
>> of people who may read your postings."
>
> I don't find it difficult to read my quoted text.
Quit hogging the decoder ring.
hth,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
8:02am up 76 days, 14:33, 4 users, load average: 2.37, 2.39, 2.32
$ cat /dev/bollocks
deploy front-end deliverables
Johan Lindquist
rapskat <rap...@gdlteknet.com> suddenly blurted:
<EF is being rude>
> Etiquette refers to de facto rules and standards appying to social
> interaction. Persons that deliberately ignore these rules are
> normally sociopaths looking for attention via any means.
>
> The more attention that people pay them for their blatant disregard
> for the accepted practices, the more they are wont to disregard them
> since the ploy is working. If they are ignored, chances are they
> will change tactics.
>
> The most effective method to coerce a person to abide by social
> standards is to ignore them until they do. If they ask for something
> and don't say "please", then don't give them what they asked for.
> They will start saying please eventually.
It's a convincing argument you have there. I'm really thinking it
would be the best approach, just not to reply to him at all until he
gets his act together. Problem is, as always, will people who are
leaning towards ditching the monopoly take his words for true when
noone ever corrects his malignant claims and half-truths? I think the
real problem isn't finding a proper way to respond, but figuring out
what the results will be.
Weird thing is, for my part I take pride in knowing that what I
post is clear and concise, that there's no confusion as to what I'm
replying to, and that people won't have to scroll for two minutes to
actually figure out what I'm trying to say. I'm having a hard time
understanding why people would /not/ want the same thing.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
8:08am up 76 days, 14:39, 4 users, load average: 2.21, 2.43, 2.37
$ cat /dev/bollocks
embrace revolutionary systems
Johan Lindquist
Craig Kelley <i...@inconnu.isu.edu> suddenly blurted:
> jn...@memento.org (Jerry Nash) writes:
>> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>
> Can anyone?
>
> Outlook Express is a piece of garbage. It's default mail settings
> are atrocious. That it can't properly wrap quoted text is a sign
> that the authors didn't (1) know anything about usenet or e-mail and
> (2) do not use such applications of the internet on a regular basis.
I'm thinking that when microsoft decided to go with the rest of the
world and enter the glorious Internet, they didn't actually have
anyone around that had any experience with it, so they made upp all
their own standards of, for example, quoting. I hadn't even seen a
reply to an email that included the original at the bottom, making it
impossible to respond in an orderly fashion to the text, until someone
replied using a microsoft product.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
8:13am up 76 days, 14:44, 4 users, load average: 2.36, 2.29, 2.31
$ cat /dev/bollocks
mesh holistic infrastructures
chrisv
>> Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
>
>No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
Idiot.
Ed Allen
Johan Lindquist <sp...@smilfinken.net> wrote:
>
>Weird thing is, for my part I take pride in knowing that what I
>post is clear and concise, that there's no confusion as to what I'm
>replying to, and that people won't have to scroll for two minutes to
>actually figure out what I'm trying to say. I'm having a hard time
>understanding why people would /not/ want the same thing.
>
that newbies will give up quickly rather than scroll past the
mangled text to see the rebuttal.
His aim is to make communication as unpleasant as possible.
--
"What we going to do tonight, Linus ?"
"The same thing we do every night Tux,
try to take over the world !"
Mark Kent
>Tue, 26 Feb 2002 at 23:59 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
>Craig Kelley <i...@inconnu.isu.edu> suddenly blurted:
>> jn...@memento.org (Jerry Nash) writes:
>>> Well, Erik still can't seem to configure his Outlook Express.
>>
>> Can anyone?
>>
>> Outlook Express is a piece of garbage. It's default mail settings
>> are atrocious. That it can't properly wrap quoted text is a sign
>> that the authors didn't (1) know anything about usenet or e-mail and
>> (2) do not use such applications of the internet on a regular basis.
>
>I'm thinking that when microsoft decided to go with the rest of the
>world and enter the glorious Internet, they didn't actually have
>anyone around that had any experience with it, so they made upp all
>their own standards of, for example, quoting. I hadn't even seen a
>reply to an email that included the original at the bottom, making it
>impossible to respond in an orderly fashion to the text, until someone
>replied using a microsoft product.
>
It's endemic to their thinking. Outlook has a kind of 'preview' option,
where the preview window shows the top few lines of the message, rather
than the bottom, so anyone who tries to do it properly in Outlook will
be shafted anyway.
--
Mark Kent
Take out the ham to mail me.
Mark Kent
>Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 03:20 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
>rapskat <rap...@gdlteknet.com> suddenly blurted:
>
><EF is being rude>
>
>> Etiquette refers to de facto rules and standards appying to social
>> interaction. Persons that deliberately ignore these rules are
>> normally sociopaths looking for attention via any means.
>>
>> The more attention that people pay them for their blatant disregard
>> for the accepted practices, the more they are wont to disregard them
>> since the ploy is working. If they are ignored, chances are they
>> will change tactics.
>>
>> The most effective method to coerce a person to abide by social
>> standards is to ignore them until they do. If they ask for something
>> and don't say "please", then don't give them what they asked for.
>> They will start saying please eventually.
>
>It's a convincing argument you have there. I'm really thinking it
>would be the best approach, just not to reply to him at all until he
>gets his act together. Problem is, as always, will people who are
>leaning towards ditching the monopoly take his words for true when
>noone ever corrects his malignant claims and half-truths?
To be hones Johan, I'm not sure that this would happen at all. If /everyone/
ignores the trolls when they are blatantly off topic or breaking some other
form of netiquette, or at least the /only/ response they get is simple a
line which says "you're off topic", then I think any casual reader will
soon see who here is taken seriously and who is not.
Replying to Erik's posts merely feeds the sociopath in him.
mjcr
on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 02:34 GMT,
GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> I see what you guys are getting at now. Yes, I know how he
> does it now... all he has to do is hit enter and things get
> messed up. He jumped my butt for doing the same thing a
> while back and told me to let my newsreader handle the
> formatting and quoting.
There is a bug in the Outlook Express that ships with Internet Explorer 4.x
and it still existed in 5.x. It caused by a interaction between using a
proportional spaced font for the newsreader and email handling. I appears
to wrap the lines based of the on screen real estate that the proportional
spaced font consumes and does not consider monospaced handling of the text
unless a monospaced font is being used. Another such problem, is when the
user of OE is authoring the article in OE as "rich text" and has OE
configured to autoconvert the text to ASCII only when posting.
I don't know about newer version of OE, but as I recall, it did not have a
functional rewrap feature. That means that while you are writing your text
in non-HTML mode it initialy wraps the lines with the bugs mentioned above
in force; but when you have to go back and reedit a prior line, you have to
wrap all the text in the effected paragraph by hand.
BTW does anyone know if Microsoft Chat/Comic Chat has an option to turn off
all of that annoying pictures and sound transfer rubish that makes reading
so difficult for normal non-MS chat IRC users? In channel we sometimes get
people using those MS monstrocities and have to wade through likes of sound
and image and control information to see the actual message being presented.
When asked to turn off those "features" the MS IRC client users tend to get
irate about the issue.
GreyCloud
>
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:13:41 -0800,
> Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> wrote:
> >>> Your newsreader is screwing up the quoting levels ..
> >>
> >>No, it's not. The quoting levels are still there.
> >
> > Wrong. The word "quoted" and the word "text" are both given with the
> > wrong number of levels in this excerpt from one of your posts.
> >
> > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
> >|> >> >> Please, Erik, can't you just use common sense and wrap your|
> >|quoted |
> >|> > text |
> >|> >> >> so it's readable? |
> > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
> >
> > There's no excuse for this. I'm posting from Windows at the moment,
> > just like you, and my posts are all formated flawlessly.
> >
> > --Tim Smith
> >
>
> You aren't using OE, which is quite possibly, the most bug ridden,
> crappy piece of software ever to be imprinted onto a CD.
> Or maybe Erik doesn't know how to configure it, who knows.
>
A while back I've posted using OE 5.5 and it looked ok.
It's just Eric.
Erik Funkenbusch
news:3C7C441D...@cumulus.com...
No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
Jim Richardson
Yeah, I think you are right there. Does anyone recall if Erik's posts
looked like this a few months ago?
Richard Steiner
"Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
>ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
Erik, the appearance of your postings *does* tend to detract from the
content, since it makes them look haphazard and poorly edited.
There are a number of places that have published guidelines, and most
of those guidelines make sense. Really. Why continue this nonsense?
If you aren't going to bother to take a little bit of time to make your
posts readable for the majority of people here, why should other people
take the time to see things from your point of view?
Effective communication is a two-way street.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS
+ Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Do Quarter Horses have only 1 leg????
Erik Funkenbusch
news:iLUf8oHp...@visi.com...
> Here in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
> >No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
> >ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
>
> Erik, the appearance of your postings *does* tend to detract from the
> content, since it makes them look haphazard and poorly edited.
>
> There are a number of places that have published guidelines, and most
> of those guidelines make sense. Really. Why continue this nonsense?
>
> If you aren't going to bother to take a little bit of time to make
your
> posts readable for the majority of people here, why should other
people
> take the time to see things from your point of view?
>
> Effective communication is a two-way street.
You understimate the amount of work necessary.
mjcr
on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 19:15 GMT,
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
> No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
> ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
Anti-Linux propaganist disinformation tactic you have used is:
40. Use of Undefined Terminology
Peter Köhlmann
What amount of work? Drop Outlook into trash and install at least Agent?
Where's that much work involved?
Peter
--
Outlook Express, who do you want to infect today?
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>> A while back I've posted using OE 5.5 and it looked ok.
>> It's just Eric.
>
>Yeah, I think you are right there. Does anyone recall if Erik's posts
>looked like this a few months ago?
>
Here is Erik from Jul2001, and its mangled.
From er...@visi.com Wed Jul 25 14:07:56 2001
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dangerous New Virus Strikes
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2505.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2505.0000
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:24:18 -0500
"Richard Thrippleton" <re...@ObviousSPAMBLOCKcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn9lqor...@pi.chu.cam.ac.uk...
> In article <QX677.23662$B7.38...@ruti.visi.com>, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >"Richard Thrippleton" <re...@ObviousSPAMBLOCKcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> >news:slrn9lon0...@pi.chu.cam.ac.uk...
> >> In article <k9Q67.22564$B7.37...@ruti.visi.com>, Erik Funkenbusch
wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Partially true. For instance, there are always new root exploits that
> >open
> >> >up, in fact there are new ones posted weekly, sometimes daily. The
vast
> >> >majority aren't remote exploits, but getting the attachment into the
> >users
> >> >email and letting them run it solves that problem.
> >> Are you talking about Windows or Linux? Context suggests Linux,
> >> "letting them run it" suggests Windows. I don't know of a Unix mailer
that
> >> runs executable attachments by default.
> >
> >Several do, but that's really beside the point. Do you think the result
> >would be any different if the email contained instructions on how to save
> >the attachment, change its permissions and run it? We're talking about
oOo
Jim Richardson
well, isn't that about when Erik began his long slide down into trolldom?
GreyCloud
You were given it by the others.
Now use your newsreader properly, or don't you know how.
Peter Köhlmann
Sure it is mangled.
Outlook Express is shitty, it can't do proper quoting.
That Erik is using such toys even if there are much better tools
available for windows is unbelievable.
Erik Funkenbusch
news:7dmj5a...@seneca.peternet.smp...
Agent doesn't adhere to usenet netiquette because it doesn't wrap quoted
lines at all, thus they can grow to be 100+ or more, violating
netiquette.
GreyCloud
And to think Eric put all his eggs into one basket and calls
himself a consultant.
Peter Köhlmann
Why do you think the line lenght should be set to somewhere at 72 - 74?
To account for the quoting chars for these broken windows apps which do
not know how to properly quote or wrap.
But still a line longer than 80 chars is much better than this shit you
are presenting us here. In your case I would simply stop quoting at all.
No one can make any sense out of it without an effort.
Jerry Nash
>"Peter Khlmann" <Peter.K...@t-online.de> wrote in message
And yet in this single post of yours alone you have
violated netiquette four times.
Erik Funkenbusch
Because that's what the most widely accepted Netiquette documents say.
Actually, they say 60-70,
> To account for the quoting chars for these broken windows apps which
do
> not know how to properly quote or wrap.
No, to account for quoting so that it can still fit within an 80
character terminal display.
> But still a line longer than 80 chars is much better than this shit
you
> are presenting us here. In your case I would simply stop quoting at
all.
> No one can make any sense out of it without an effort.
Since when you are you the judge if >80 characters is more acceptable
than mangled quoting?
Erik Funkenbusch
Even if I accept tha faulty quoting violates netiquette (which I do
not), all you're doing is advocating one violation over another.
Peter Köhlmann
Because most here would have no problem at all reading longer lines.
Hell, I can easily fit more than 140 chars on a line without wrapping
Just look above and see this mangled shit *your* newsreader produced here.
Peter
--
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
Jerry Nash
No I didn't. I didn't advovate using Agent, that was another poster.
You probably messed up on this because it's so hard to determine
who your quotes are attibuted to.
You're currently violating netiquette and messing all over the
net. Just learn to use a reader that works. Linux has many
nice ones, you should try them.
Jerry Nash
>
>Since when you are you the judge if >80 characters is more acceptable
>than mangled quoting?
Erik FINALLY admits he's mangling quotes.
>
Since when is Erik the judge if mangled quoting is more acceptable
than >80 characters? Oh! I forgot! He's concerned about all those
newsreaders who are using VT100 terminals.
Erik Funkenbusch
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:44:12 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com>
wrote:
> >
> >Since when you are you the judge if >80 characters is more acceptable
> >than mangled quoting?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Erik FINALLY admits he's mangling quotes.
I've never denied it. What I deny is that de-mangling quotes is
required by netiquette.
Johan Lindquist
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> suddenly blurted:
You overestimate the average person's will to make heads or tails of
your misquoted crap. If you can't quote people correctly (this is what
your mangling of quoting levels leads to, you know), stop quoting
them. Why don't you just answer posts the default ms way instead, it
actually makes more sense that way. Or maybe it's just that you don't
want people to actually be able to read what you're replying to?
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
10:35pm up 2:49, 3 users, load average: 0.07, 0.45, 0.44
$ cat /dev/bollocks
Erik Funkenbusch
news:r08m5a...@news.smilfinken.net...
The important part of my post is the new text. The quoted text is just
there for reference, even managled it's quite obvious what the quoted
text is about.
Johan Lindquist
No, it just isn't very obvious. Well, okay, I'd have to say "to me
it isn't". You're still attributing people incorrectly, whatever
de-munging capabilities your decoder ring has.
If it's not that important to you how the quoted text looks, why not
use the default ms quoting instead?
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
11:26pm up 3:40, 3 users, load average: 0.48, 0.87, 0.60
$ cat /dev/bollocks
Michael Vester
The only one that posts mangled quotes on cola is you. Everyone else has
managed to do it correctly. You don't even have to admit you are wrong,
just fix it. It should not be beyond your capabilities. Save your spinning
skills for the task at hand, showing Microsoft in a positive light, no
matter what. You seriously diminish your position by denying what is so
obvious to everyone else.
--
4:15pm up 19 days, 5:25, 1 user, load average: 1.54, 1.62, 1.46
Spammer diluetent (additions welcome)
ms...@microsoft.com ab...@hotmail.com mrre...@yahoo.com
hot...@prontomail.com webm...@korcin.com hot...@protolmail.com
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> "Johan Lindquist" <sp...@smilfinken.net> wrote in message
>> news:r08m5a...@news.smilfinken.net...
>> > You overestimate the average person's will to make heads or tails of
>> > your misquoted crap. If you can't quote people correctly (this is what
>> > your mangling of quoting levels leads to, you know), stop quoting
>> > them. Why don't you just answer posts the default ms way instead, it
>> > actually makes more sense that way. Or maybe it's just that you don't
>> > want people to actually be able to read what you're replying to?
>>
>> The important part of my post is the new text. The quoted text is just
>> there for reference, even managled it's quite obvious what the quoted
>> text is about.
>>
>The only one that posts mangled quotes on cola is you. Everyone else has
>managed to do it correctly.
So they are, as there are 11 variants of OE used in posting to
Cola.
The one that Erik uses (5.50.4522.1200) is the only one I see mangling
attributions.
> You don't even have to admit you are wrong,
>just fix it.
Eric has a reluctance to admit he is wrong.
> It should not be beyond your capabilities.
He could change to another variant of OE, after all isnt it *free* ?
>Save your spinning
>skills for the task at hand, showing Microsoft in a positive light, no
>matter what. You seriously diminish your position by denying what is so
>obvious to everyone else.
Well said, but lets not overlook the fact that Erik is doing this *on
purpose*.
Jim Richardson
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
> "Jerry Nash" <jn...@memento.org> wrote in message
> news:slrna7t84t...@memento.org...
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:44:12 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com>
> wrote:
>> >
>> >Since when you are you the judge if >80 characters is more acceptable
>> >than mangled quoting?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Erik FINALLY admits he's mangling quotes.
>
> I've never denied it. What I deny is that de-mangling quotes is
> required by netiquette.
>
It's not a law with cops threatening to take you to jail, it's just
polite, so people can track what's being said. Although in your case,
maybe it's simply a defence mechanism so people can't track your lies.
Michael Vester
That is probably true. He just wants to cause disorder since other tactics
don't seem to be working.
--
9:05pm up 19 days, 10:15, 1 user, load average: 1.10, 1.08, 1.02
Johan Lindquist
Mark Kent <ma...@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk> suddenly blurted:
> Johan Lindquist <sp...@smilfinken.net> espoused:
>>Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 03:20 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
>>rapskat <rap...@gdlteknet.com> suddenly blurted:
>>
>><EF is being rude>
>>
>>> Etiquette refers to de facto rules and standards appying to social
>>> interaction. Persons that deliberately ignore these rules are
>>> normally sociopaths looking for attention via any means.
>>>
>>> The more attention that people pay them for their blatant
>>> disregard for the accepted practices, the more they are wont to
>>> disregard them since the ploy is working. If they are ignored,
>>> chances are they will change tactics.
>>>
>>> The most effective method to coerce a person to abide by social
>>> standards is to ignore them until they do. If they ask for
>>> something and don't say "please", then don't give them what they
>>> asked for. They will start saying please eventually.
>>
>>It's a convincing argument you have there. I'm really thinking it
>>would be the best approach, just not to reply to him at all until he
>>gets his act together. Problem is, as always, will people who are
>>leaning towards ditching the monopoly take his words for true when
>>noone ever corrects his malignant claims and half-truths?
>
> To be hones Johan, I'm not sure that this would happen at all. If
> /everyone/ ignores the trolls when they are blatantly off topic
> or breaking some other form of netiquette, or at least the /only/
> response they get is simple a line which says "you're off topic",
> then I think any casual reader will soon see who here is taken
> seriously and who is not.
I really don't know. The guys like flatypus would certainly chime in
at anything remotely negative to linux he has to say, just look at
his "I'd like to see them squirm around this one" comment he made
to the guy who used non-accelerated drivers to compare performance.
Non-critical readers will say "wow, that guy really knows what he's
talking about, and nobody seems to disagree either".
Of course, what we don't need is people (like me just recently, I'm
sad to say) getting pissed off at his blatant lies and calling him
a microsoft lackey. What we do need is people calmly refuting his
erroneous claims and leave it at that.
> Replying to Erik's posts merely feeds the sociopath in him.
This I cannot disagree with. ;)
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
10:13am up 10:23, 3 users, load average: 1.05, 1.20, 1.22
$ cat /dev/bollocks
target efficient supply-chains
GreyCloud
the point is knothead is to fix up your quoting so that we
can read it... it looks like crap and is hard to follow!
Richard Steiner
"Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>"Richard Steiner" <rste...@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:iLUf8oHp...@visi.com...
>
>> If you aren't going to bother to take a little bit of time to make
>> your posts readable for the majority of people here, why should other
>> people take the time to see things from your point of view?
>>
>> Effective communication is a two-way street.
>
>You understimate the amount of work necessary.
No, I don't.
I've been using tools such as QWK readers and newsreaders for over a
dozen years now, give or take a couple, and I guess I tend to assume
that the majority of participants on the various technical forums I've
frequented are able to make informed decisions regarding the particular
tools they choose to use or not use while online.
Perhaps you're an exception?
If OE isn't able to meet the basic requirements for posting on USENET
(which seems strange to me, as I've seen numerous other people use it
without apparent difficulty), perhaps one of the other dozen or two
newsreaders which are available for your platform of choice would be
better suited for you?
Alternatively, perhaps you could simply find an editor capable of doing
intelligent prefix detection when doing paragraph wrapping. They *do*
exist, and I assume OE lets you use an external editor...?
Otherwise, I guess I'd have to conclude that you're simply being an
ass in this particular instance, and that would make your comments in
this forum considerably less interesting, at least to me.
I mean, it's hard enough buying many of your inane comments even if I
*can* read them easily, but if I have to work to read them...
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS
+ Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Free advice -- worth EVERY penny! :-)
rapskat
Lindquist" - dump details are as follows...
Just off the top of my head, I believe that people will in general will be
more influenced by an active thread than a dead one.
Suppose someone posts something, then EF The Great or Dick come along and
refute it with their normal B$. If that thread dies there, then so does
the reader's interest. They will go on and follow the active strand and
whatever crap they read will quickly be forgotten. By making any reply to
it, we are actually helping to reinforce and validate them. People say,
"Well, whatever they said sure has got the advocates all in an uproar, so
there must be some merit to it. What are they trying to hide?"
At the very least, respond in another thread and change the Topic header
like someone suggested so as not to perpetuate the thread. You think?
--
rapskat - 9:25am up 2 days, 8:39, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.13, 0.23
You Know You Need To Upgrade When...
Your idea of entertainment is a rousing game of Pong.
...or you even know what Pong is!
Johan Lindquist
rapskat <rap...@gdlteknet.com> suddenly blurted:
> Error Log for Fri, 01 Mar 2002 04:18:13 -0500: segfault in module "Johan
> Lindquist" - dump details are as follows...
>
>> Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 18:00 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes, Mark
>> Kent <ma...@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk> suddenly blurted:
>>> or breaking some other form of netiquette, or at least the /only/
>>> response they get is simple a line which says "you're off topic",
>>> then I think any casual reader will soon see who here is taken
>>> seriously and who is not.
>>
>> I really don't know. The guys like flatypus would certainly chime
>> in at anything remotely negative to linux he has to say, just
>> look at his "I'd like to see them squirm around this one" comment
>> he made to the guy who used non-accelerated drivers to compare
>> performance. Non-critical readers will say "wow, that guy really
>> knows what he's talking about, and nobody seems to disagree
>> either".
>>
>> Of course, what we don't need is people (like me just recently, I'm
>> sad to say) getting pissed off at his blatant lies and calling him
>> a microsoft lackey. What we do need is people calmly refuting his
>> erroneous claims and leave it at that.
>
> will be more influenced by an active thread than a dead one.
>
> Suppose someone posts something, then EF The Great or Dick come
> along and refute it with their normal B$. If that thread dies there,
> then so does the reader's interest. They will go on and follow the
> active strand and whatever crap they read will quickly be forgotten.
> By making any reply to it, we are actually helping to reinforce and
> validate them. People say, "Well, whatever they said sure has got
> the advocates all in an uproar, so there must be some merit to it.
> What are they trying to hide?"
>
> At the very least, respond in another thread and change the Topic
> header like someone suggested so as not to perpetuate the thread.
> You think?
Perhaps. This is probably the best^H^H^H^Hleast bad solution. I'm
thinking about stuff like google searches too tho, people looking
for information on whether linux is good or not. The human nature is
probably more inclined to just look at the short threads. Of course,
this works both ways. A short, to the point and level, reply to any
lie and just leave the thread as soon as the first mud is slung,
usually by the person who dreamed up the first incorrectness.
Maybe that is the ticket. Subtly agitate the trolls to the point where
they lose it and then fight that urge to put their noses down in their
own doo-doo. :)
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
4:08pm up 16:19, 4 users, load average: 2.18, 1.72, 1.93
$ cat /dev/bollocks
embrace mission-critical partnerships
Mark Kent
>On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:41:12 -0600,
> Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
>> "Jerry Nash" <jn...@memento.org> wrote in message
>> news:slrna7t84t...@memento.org...
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:44:12 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com>
>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Since when you are you the judge if >80 characters is more acceptable
>>> >than mangled quoting?
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>> Erik FINALLY admits he's mangling quotes.
>>
>> I've never denied it. What I deny is that de-mangling quotes is
>> required by netiquette.
>>
>
>It's not a law with cops threatening to take you to jail, it's just
>polite, so people can track what's being said. Although in your case,
>maybe it's simply a defence mechanism so people can't track your lies.
>
This is the whole issue with usenet, netiquette, charters, FAQs and
so on. Only a sociopath will continue to argue the case in this kind of
situation. Any normal person would have said 'okay, sorry' and fixed
the problem.
--
Mark Kent
Take out the ham to mail me.
Erik Funkenbusch
> Here in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
> >"Richard Steiner" <rste...@visi.com> wrote in message
> >news:iLUf8oHp...@visi.com...
> >
> >> If you aren't going to bother to take a little bit of time to make
> >> your posts readable for the majority of people here, why should
other
> >> people take the time to see things from your point of view?
> >>
> >> Effective communication is a two-way street.
> >
> >You understimate the amount of work necessary.
>
> No, I don't.
>
> I've been using tools such as QWK readers and newsreaders for over a
> dozen years now, give or take a couple, and I guess I tend to assume
> that the majority of participants on the various technical forums I've
> frequented are able to make informed decisions regarding the
particular
> tools they choose to use or not use while online.
>
> Perhaps you're an exception?
>
> If OE isn't able to meet the basic requirements for posting on USENET
> (which seems strange to me, as I've seen numerous other people use it
> without apparent difficulty), perhaps one of the other dozen or two
> newsreaders which are available for your platform of choice would be
> better suited for you?
So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and easy
to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
(sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
mangle.
> Alternatively, perhaps you could simply find an editor capable of doin
g
> intelligent prefix detection when doing paragraph wrapping. They *do*
> exist, and I assume OE lets you use an external editor...?
No, it doesn't.
> Otherwise, I guess I'd have to conclude that you're simply being an
> ass in this particular instance, and that would make your comments in
> this forum considerably less interesting, at least to me.
Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to get
around in, i'm not changing.
Linonut
> So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and easy
> to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
> (sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
Have you tried slrn for Windows?
> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
> said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
> mangle.
Please take the time to trim, anyway.
Thanks in advance.
> Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to get
> around in, i'm not changing.
That would be slrn.
Chris
--
Linux is Open Sourcery
Jim Richardson
Yeah, Erik's starting to wobble like a gyro spinning down.
maybe the micros~1 eXPerience has unhinged him?
Richard Steiner
"Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and easy
>to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
>(sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
I see.
I'm hardly an expert in Windows newsreaders, being a long-time OS/2 user
and sometime Linux/FreeBSD user who tries to avoid Windows as a desktop
OS when I can (at least at home) unless launching games or doing limited
MIDI stuff, but I am passingly aware of a number of alternatives, mainly
due to my regular perusal of the news.software.readers newsgroup.
Have you tried these:
- slrn
- Xnews
- PC Yarn + VSoup (the offline newsreader I'm using now)
- Anawave Gravity
- Free Agent/Agent
- WinVN
You might find this site handy:
Alternatively, the aforementioned newsgroup might be a good place to
ask for advice from other Windows users. Let them know the criteria
you have, and I'm sure you'll get several recommendations.
>The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
>because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
>said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
>character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
>netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
>you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning
>to mangle.
It's more important (IMO) to post in a clearly readable manner than it
is to blindly follow some arbitrary person's so-called "guidelines".
>> Alternatively, perhaps you could simply find an editor capable of doing
>> intelligent prefix detection when doing paragraph wrapping. They *do*
>> exist, and I assume OE lets you use an external editor...?
>
>No, it doesn't.
Really? When I used Outlook as an e-mail client at work, it allowed me
to specify an external editor. Is Outlook Express more limited?
>> Otherwise, I guess I'd have to conclude that you're simply being an
>> ass in this particular instance, and that would make your comments in
>> this forum considerably less interesting, at least to me.
>
>Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to get
>around in, i'm not changing.
I certainly can (personally, I'd recommend either slrn or Yarn), but my
own preference is for a newsreader which
- does effective color coding of important headers and quoted text
(slrn will color right levels, while Yarn only recognized quoted
and nonquoted text),
- lets me view the raw message headers if I so choose,
- has a decent thread tree display,
- does +/- regex scoring on both message headers and message text,
- lets me operate exclusively via hotkeys, not via mouse clicks,
- properly wraps lines if someone is obnoxious and desides to post
a message with lines > 80 characters,
- allows for use of a third-party editor (in my case FTE), and
- works on my desktop platform of choice, be it OS/2, Linux, or
Windows.
Both slrn and Yarn meet my requirements.
However, your requirements may be vastly different from mine.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS
+ Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
This tagline is really Odo.
Mart van de Wege
> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
> said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
> mangle.
Uhm, sorry? Reality calling Erik?!
1. It's not about the linewrap. It's about OE being too dumb to account
for quoting levels when wrapping. It's as if OE inserts the quote marks
first, adds a line end character and then wraps the line.
2. I've seen many threads where your quotes were mangled on only the
second level of quoting.
You're newsreader is seriously broken. Fix it.
Mart
--
'Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn.
He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness,
where thy flesh shall be devoured,
and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye'
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and easy
>> to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
>> (sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
>
>Have you tried slrn for Windows?
That would require using *GPL* Viral software and Erik is forbidden
to do so by Microsoft.
>
>> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
>> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
>> said something which I didn't,
Bullshit: Snipping does not produce the mangling you post.
>> and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
>> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
>> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
>> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
>> mangle.
Bullshit: 4 out of 10 OE newsgroup posters managed to post unmangled
quotes, and Erik isnt one of them.
>
>Please take the time to trim, anyway.
>Thanks in advance.
Try sacrificing 3 goats and a chicken, perhaps that will work for
Erik ?
>> Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to get
>> around in, i'm not changing.
>
>That would be slrn.
GPL Viral unfortunately for Erik.
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:12:04 +0100, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
>> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
>> said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
>> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
>> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
>> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
>> mangle.
>
>Uhm, sorry? Reality calling Erik?!
>
>1. It's not about the linewrap. It's about OE being too dumb to account
>for quoting levels when wrapping. It's as if OE inserts the quote marks
>first, adds a line end character and then wraps the line.
So simple, yet Erik cannot see it.
>2. I've seen many threads where your quotes were mangled on only the
>second level of quoting.
Ditto.
>
>Your newsreader is seriously broken. Fix it.
6/10 OE Version posts are mangled, and Erik is unable to fix the problem,
so much for Microsoft junk.
mjcr
on Sat, 02 Mar 2002 at 07:13 GMT,
Terry Porter <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
> Linonut is inventive and wrote the following
> in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>
>>After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and easy
>>> to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
>>> (sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
>>
>>Have you tried slrn for Windows?
>
> That would require using *GPL* Viral software and Erik is forbidden
> to do so by Microsoft.
>
>>
>>> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
>>> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
>>> said something which I didn't,
>
> Bullshit: Snipping does not produce the mangling you post.
>
>>> and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
>>> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
>>> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
>>> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
>>> mangle.
>
> Bullshit: 4 out of 10 OE newsgroup posters managed to post unmangled
> quotes, and Erik isnt one of them.
When, I Used OE for posting, I found that it made it too easy to make a
mess, if you were not careful. I will presume that I let a few bad ones
slipout to the newsgroups; however, it was workable. You would need to use
a monospace fonts and do not author the articles in "Rich Text" Be prepared
to do manual rewraps.
That last one is where I may have sliped up from time to time. It can be
handled with OE, if one cares to do it right. That said, Pan beats the
pants off of OE for a GUI style newsreader. Slrn beats even Pan.
--
I run Linux, no bloody RedHat, Debian, Slackware, or Corel, just Linux.
May all that you wish upon me and mine be visited upon you ten fold.
rapskat
Lindquist" - dump details are as follows...
<snip>
> Perhaps. This is probably the best^H^H^H^Hleast bad solution. I'm
> thinking about stuff like google searches too tho, people looking for
> information on whether linux is good or not. The human nature is
> probably more inclined to just look at the short threads. Of course,
> this works both ways. A short, to the point and level, reply to any lie
> and just leave the thread as soon as the first mud is slung, usually by
> the person who dreamed up the first incorrectness.
>
> Maybe that is the ticket. Subtly agitate the trolls to the point where
> they lose it and then fight that urge to put their noses down in their
> own doo-doo. :)
>
>
Yeah! And then spank their butts with a wadded up newsread...uh, I
mean...newspaper and tell them, "No! Bad Troll!"
--
rapskat - 10:15pm up 3 days, 21:29, 3 users, load average: 0.26, 0.22, 0.12
Instruction ends in the schoolroom -- but education ends only with life. -- Publilius Syrus.
George P. Nelson
>
>> intelligent prefix detection when doing paragraph wrapping. They do
>> exist, and I assume OE lets you use an external editor...?
>
> No, it doesn't.
really insane but:
MS == control!
--
- - - George P. Nelson
- - retired electrical engineer and senior computer geek.
----- A Microsoft free zone and desktop Linux outpost on North
Carolina's Outer Banks.
------ Never underestimate what a monopoly with the ethical sense and
Business practices of a Hungry Great White shark might do or accomplish
Website:(under construction) http:www.nelsonobx.com
The Ghost In The Machine
<sp...@smilfinken.net>
wrote
on Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:28:36 +0100
<kuam5a...@news.smilfinken.net>:
> Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 21:45 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
> Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> suddenly blurted:
[snip discussing EF's quoting style]
> If it's not that important to you how the quoted text looks, why not
> use the default ms quoting instead?
Isn't that the one that top-posts, indenting with non-editable
spaces below?
Ick.
[.sigsnip]
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 16d:04h:11m actually running Linux.
[ ] Do you want this message to be private? Oops, too late.
The Ghost In The Machine
<mj...@mindspring.com>
wrote
on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:38:15 -0800
<slrna7qke...@mindspring.com>:
> In article <tdaf8.6207$N7.13...@ruti.visi.com>
> on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 19:15 GMT,
> Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>
>> No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
>> ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
>
>
> 40. Use of Undefined Terminology
Doncha mean "Not-defined Terminology"? After all, UT is
a darned good game.... :-)
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 16d:09h:59m actually running Linux.
Life's getting too complicated, even listening to the radio.
Johan Lindquist
The Ghost In The Machine <ewi...@earthlink.net> suddenly blurted:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Johan Lindquist
><sp...@smilfinken.net>
> wrote
> on Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:28:36 +0100
><kuam5a...@news.smilfinken.net>:
>
>
>> If it's not that important to you how the quoted text looks, why
>> not use the default ms quoting instead?
>
> Isn't that the one that top-posts, indenting with non-editable
> spaces below?
That would be the one. At least it won't do extra linebreaks in the
quoted material. Won't make it any easier to reply to each point of
an article in a logical fashion, but at least it will preserve any
readability still left in the quoted material.
> Ick.
Quite.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
9:31pm up 1 day, 10:19, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 1.15, 1.13
$ cat /dev/bollocks
grow 24/7 channels
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>> Bullshit: 4 out of 10 OE newsgroup posters managed to post unmangled
>> quotes, and Erik isnt one of them.
>
>When, I Used OE for posting, I found that it made it too easy to make a
>mess, if you were not careful. I will presume that I let a few bad ones
>slipout to the newsgroups; however, it was workable. You would need to use
>a monospace fonts and do not author the articles in "Rich Text" Be prepared
>to do manual rewraps.
^^^^^^ is this the key to a good OE post ?
>
>That last one is where I may have sliped up from time to time. It can be
>handled with OE, if one cares to do it right. That said, Pan beats the
>pants off of OE for a GUI style newsreader. Slrn beats even Pan.
Pan is great and very easy to use, but I've been using Slrn so long
its become a habit for me :)
Linonut
> Pan is great and very easy to use, but I've been using Slrn so long
> its become a habit for me :)
Hoi hey! Terry's out o' the sack after 'is noight awv
revelry. G'day mate!
Chris
Mark Kent
Hehe. Perhaps the XP is bad for the consultancy theory is a good one?
Or the Erik is a paid team and they're in trouble. Either could explain
his very strange behaviour of late.
Ian Smith
s/newsreader/personality/
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian Smith
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mjcr
on Sun, 03 Mar 2002 at 20:09 GMT,
The Ghost In The Machine <ewi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, mjcr
><mj...@mindspring.com>
> wrote
> on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:38:15 -0800
><slrna7qke...@mindspring.com>:
>> In article <tdaf8.6207$N7.13...@ruti.visi.com>
>> on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 at 19:15 GMT,
>> Erik Funkenbusch <er...@visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No, Look back through the quotes, I have *ALWAYS* asked for an
>>> ESTABLISHED netiquette document.
>>
>> Anti-Linux propaganist disinformation tactic you have used is:
>>
>> 40. Use of Undefined Terminology
>
> Doncha mean "Not-defined Terminology"? After all, UT is
> a darned good game.... :-)
I would not want to offende players of UT; old #40 does not become UT it
becomes UoUT, ;-)
mjcr
on Mon, 04 Mar 2002 at 00:19 GMT,
Terry Porter <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
WARNING BADLY FORMATTED SAMPLE TEXT AHEAD.
> mjcr is inventive and wrote the following
> in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>
>>> Bullshit: 4 out of 10 OE newsgroup posters managed to post unmangled
>>> quotes, and Erik isnt one of them.
>>
>>When, I Used OE for posting, I found that it made it too easy to make a
>>mess, if you were not careful. I will presume that I let a few bad ones
>>slipout to the newsgroups; however, it was workable. You would need to use
>>a monospace fonts and do not author the articles in "Rich Text" Be prepared
>>to do manual rewraps.
> ^^^^^^ is this the key to a good OE post ?
That was to only way I could get it to behave most of the time. Setup a
ruler line since OE or at least the versions of OE I had to deal with had no
on screen column position counter. I kept a textfile with the ruler that I
would load into notepad copy it to the clipboard and paste it into OE for
this purpose. The file contained this
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|######|
After writing content I would compare the line lengths to the ruler and
do a manual rewrap based on it. For broken quoted text like this:
>>> sdfg sdfg sf gsdf g sfg s fg sdfadf adf adf adgs fg sfg sf gs dfg sdf g sdf g sdfg sdf sfg sfg
>>> wer we wer we r we rwer wer wer wer wer wer
I would convert it to:
>>> sdfg sdfg sf gsdf g sfg s fg sdfadf adf adf adgs fg sfg sf gs dfg sdf g
>>> sdf g sdfg sdf sfg sfg wer we wer we r we rwer wer wer wer wer wer
by rewraping and moving the quotations markers by hand. (Now with, joe, the
editor I am using for this article, all I I have to do is position the
cursor in the effected text and press ^kj and it is cleaned up.)
The same manual method was needed when it looked like this.
>>> sdfg sdfg sf gsdf g sfg s fg sdfgs fg sfg sf gs dfg sdf g sdf g sdfg sdf
sfg sfg
>>> wer we wer we r we rwer wer wer wer wer wer
This is a little more work with joe that the other condition. Here we have
to reattach the "sfg sfg" detached segment to the prior line and then
requiring the use of the backspace key and then issue ^kj
Compared to OE that little more work is nothing.
Once the cleanup had been done I would delete the ruler line from the
article.
One other important point for OE is that one need to author articles in
plain text. If once authors in righ text (HTML), and posting in plain text
by depending on the HTML to text conversion by having the "post as plain
text" (or whatever the wording for that option is) can lead to some bad
formatting supprises. Even if you hand format everything perfectly under
richtext the conversion can still munge it up badly.
>>That last one is where I may have sliped up from time to time. It can be
>>handled with OE, if one cares to do it right. That said, Pan beats the
>>pants off of OE for a GUI style newsreader. Slrn beats even Pan.
> Pan is great and very easy to use, but I've been using Slrn so long
> its become a habit for me :)
I have been using Pan for some time, compared to any of the Windows based
newsreaders it is great. Is similar enough in style to those newsreaders to
be a good newsreader for folks coming to Linux feel comfortable. I have
been using to help isolate and bugs and do usability testing and then
provide feedback.
However, on a personal level I have never been 100% comfortable with Pan or
any graphical based newsreaders or mail user agents; Pan is doing well now,
so I descided it was time to be a little selfish and start using a
newsreader that I am comfortable with. Based on my history of working with
various programs such as: various Dos and unix based QWK/REP offline
mailreaders; PROFS; PMH; various Dos and unix newsreaders, all character
based,; it was easy to know that a character mode newsreader would be
required, I tried a few and settled with slrn.
Use of the basic keystrokes of slrn took only a few minutes to become
automatic. I find the for me, using slrn is very comfortable, like
returning home.
Erik Funkenbusch
news:8ISf8.745$pN4.1...@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o'
wisdom:
>
> > So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and
easy
> > to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
> > (sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
>
> Have you tried slrn for Windows?
I don't like text mode news readers.
> > The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
> > because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim
i've
> > said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
> > character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
> > netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the
people
> > you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before
beginning to
> > mangle.
>
> Please take the time to trim, anyway.
> Thanks in advance.
Nope, won't do it. As soon as I do, people start trying to claim I said
something else.
> > Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to
get
> > around in, i'm not changing.
>
> That would be slrn.
Something GUI based would be nice.
Erik Funkenbusch
news:slrna80utj....@gronk.porter.net...
> Linonut is inventive and wrote the following
> in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>
> >After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out this bit o'
wisdom:
> >
> >> So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and
easy
> >> to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
> >> (sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
> >
> >Have you tried slrn for Windows?
>
> That would require using *GPL* Viral software and Erik is forbidden
> to do so by Microsoft.
Stop being a child Terry. I use GPL software every day. I don't use
slrn because it's text mode based.
> >> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip
context
> >> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim
i've
> >> said something which I didn't,
>
> Bullshit: Snipping does not produce the mangling you post.
Apparently you can't read either.
> >> and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
> >> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
> >> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the
people
> >> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before
beginning to
> >> mangle.
>
> Bullshit: 4 out of 10 OE newsgroup posters managed to post unmangled
> quotes, and Erik isnt one of them.
4 out of 10.. wow.. great odds.
Erik Funkenbusch
> Here in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
> >So far, I haven't found a newsreader which I like. OE is fast, and
easy
> >to get around in. All the other readers i've used have had some
> >(sometimes many) quirks which annoyned me too much to use.
>
> I see.
>
> I'm hardly an expert in Windows newsreaders, being a long-time OS/2
user
> and sometime Linux/FreeBSD user who tries to avoid Windows as a
desktop
> OS when I can (at least at home) unless launching games or doing
limited
> MIDI stuff, but I am passingly aware of a number of alternatives,
mainly
> due to my regular perusal of the news.software.readers newsgroup.
>
> Have you tried these:
>
> - slrn
Text based.
> - Xnews
Primarily binary oriented. Last time I used it, it wouldn't cache
headers, so you had to redownload them every time.
> - PC Yarn + VSoup (the offline newsreader I'm using now)
Hmm.. never heard of these. I'll have to check them out.
> - Anawave Gravity
Actually, it was bought by Microplanet, then abandonded by it's author,
though they made it freeware. The primary problem was that it was slow
and cumbersome. I also found it difficult to discern the difference
between read and unread articles.
> - Free Agent/Agent
I used to use Agent a lot a few years ago, but I had troubles with it
grabbing and holding connections open. It also doesn't have any real
offline capabilities.
> - WinVN
Haven't tried that one. I'll take a look.
> You might find this site handy:
>
> http://www.newsreaders.com
Thanks.
> >> Alternatively, perhaps you could simply find an editor capable of
doing
> >> intelligent prefix detection when doing paragraph wrapping. They
*do*
> >> exist, and I assume OE lets you use an external editor...?
> >
> >No, it doesn't.
>
> Really? When I used Outlook as an e-mail client at work, it allowed
me
> to specify an external editor. Is Outlook Express more limited?
Much more limited. And as far as I know, Outlook only allowed Word to
be the external editor.
> >> Otherwise, I guess I'd have to conclude that you're simply being an
> >> ass in this particular instance, and that would make your comments
in
> >> this forum considerably less interesting, at least to me.
> >
> >Unless you can suggest a news reader which is both fast and easy to
get
> >around in, i'm not changing.
>
> I certainly can (personally, I'd recommend either slrn or Yarn), but
my
> own preference is for a newsreader which
>
> - does effective color coding of important headers and quoted text
> (slrn will color right levels, while Yarn only recognized quoted
> and nonquoted text),
Hmm.. this might have something to do with why some people find mangled
quotes more unreadable. With color flying around for various indents,
this would definately make things more difficult.
Jim Richardson
What do you expect? it's OE that y'all are talking about. 4 out of 10
decent formatted posts from OE sound like better odds than I would
expect from it.
GreyCloud
See, you're still wet behind the ears... the Toys' R Us look
always appeals to children.
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>After takin' a swig o' grog, Terry Porter belched out this bit o' wisdom:
We don't talk like that anymore Chris!
;-)
>
>Chris
Richard Steiner
"Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
>"Richard Steiner" <rste...@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:KGAg8oHp...@visi.com...
>> Have you tried these:
>>
>> - slrn
>
>Text based.
I didn't realize text-based apps were a problem (that's the type of
newsreader I tend to prefer, to be honest).
>> - Xnews
>
>Primarily binary oriented. Last time I used it, it wouldn't cache
>headers, so you had to redownload them every time.
>
>> - PC Yarn + VSoup (the offline newsreader I'm using now)
>
>Hmm.. never heard of these. I'll have to check them out.
It's text-based as well. It's a SOUP-based offline database reader for
both mail and news. Primarily for OS/2 and DOS, but I think ported to
Windows 9x and NT as well.
>> Really? When I used Outlook as an e-mail client at work, it allowed
>> me to specify an external editor. Is Outlook Express more limited?
>
>Much more limited. And as far as I know, Outlook only allowed Word to
>be the external editor.
No, I configured my copy to use the NT port of FTE.
>> - does effective color coding of important headers and quoted text
>> (slrn will color right levels, while Yarn only recognized quoted
>> and nonquoted text),
>
>Hmm.. this might have something to do with why some people find mangled
>quotes more unreadable. With color flying around for various indents,
>this would definately make things more difficult.
Yes. :-)
I meant "eight levels" instead of "right levels" above, BTW.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS
+ Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
"Pieces of Seven! Pieces of Seven! SQUAWK!" (Parroty error)
Erik Funkenbusch
news:8fv98u4enopc0r9qj...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 03:52:52 -0600, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (rste...@visi.com (Richard Steiner)) wrote:
>
> >Here in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> >"Erik Funkenbusch" <er...@visi.com> spake unto us, saying:
> >
> >>
> >>Text based.
> >
> >I didn't realize text-based apps were a problem (that's the type of
> >newsreader I tend to prefer, to be honest).
>
is
> being able to use a program in a GUI, at the console, and over a
telnet
> link.
What is the point of connecting via telnet to another machine just to
use a program which connects to another server to read news? I'd much
rather just run the program on my local machine a layer.
Johan Lindquist
> to use a program which connects to another server to read news? I'd
> much rather just run the program on my local machine a layer.
ITYM "via ssh".
If you are at different locations, you don't have to ftp your .newsrc
to avoid browsing the same 200+ articles twice?
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
9:04am up 3 days, 21:53, 3 users, load average: 1.37, 1.30, 1.18
$ cat /dev/bollocks
embrace impactful functionalities
kevin wilcox
>> >>> - slrn
>> >>
>> >>Text based.
>> >
>> >I didn't realize text-based apps were a problem (that's the type of
>> >newsreader I tend to prefer, to be honest).
>>
>> Ignore Erik, he's just being a cunt. He doesn't realise how great it
>> is being able to use a program in a GUI, at the console, and over a
>> telnet link.
>
> What is the point of connecting via telnet to another machine just to
> use a program which connects to another server to read news? I'd much
> rather just run the program on my local machine a layer.
>
Well, I tend to have several hours of class on select days of the week.
Those days, I enjoy being able to connect to my home machine via any
computer I am working from and be able to A) check usenet, whether it be
text or binary groups with slrn, B) check my email using Pine, C) being
able to check the parity files and rar files integrity via the CLI par
tool, D) being able to unrar those files using the CLI rar tool, and E)
beinga ble to delete the old .rar and .par files using rm. It makes my
life very easy to have CLI tools and the ability to run telnet, ftp, and
ssh servers for only certain hours of certain days so that I can do things
from remote locations via a CLI rather than having to wait while the GUI
is forwarded to me.
being able to telnet from within a LAN to this machine to do usenet/email
also lets me keep .slrnrc, .jnewsrc, .muttrc, .fetchmailrc and, most
importantly, .score all on the same machine but able to take advantage of
them from many machines. I can check my email or usenet posts from any
machine on the LAN and never have to setup slrn, mutt, or fetchmail more
than once. it is nice. it is convenient. and it is much faster than
using GUI tools.
that's just why *I* like to be able to telnet into a machine just to
connect to another server to read news :)
kw
mjcr
on Sat, 02 Mar 2002 at 07:17 GMT,
Terry Porter <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
> Mart van de Wege is inventive and wrote the following
> in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
>
>>On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:12:04 +0100, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>
>>> The reason my quotes are so often mangled is 1) I don't snip context
>>> because too many times when I have, some advocate tries to claim i've
>>> said something which I didn't, and 2) OE normally defaults to 76
>>> character wrapping, I set mine to 72 to fit within accepted usenet
>>> netiquette guidelines. People who leave it at the default (the people
>>> you normally see posts from) can quote 4 more levels before beginning to
>>> mangle.
>>
>>Uhm, sorry? Reality calling Erik?!
>>
>>1. It's not about the linewrap. It's about OE being too dumb to account
>>for quoting levels when wrapping. It's as if OE inserts the quote marks
>>first, adds a line end character and then wraps the line.
>
> So simple, yet Erik cannot see it.
>
>>2. I've seen many threads where your quotes were mangled on only the
>>second level of quoting.
>
> Ditto.
If fact to can and does happen on the frst level of quotation. With all
this talk about what OE can and can not do, (if someone take the time to
make it do it right). I started wondering about the articles that I had
posted from OE. Rather, than relying on my archive that may not show how
they appeard in the newsgroups, I went to Google. As I recalled, it was
possible, with effort to make OE do the job right.
What I found at google confirmed my memory of the ability to make OE handle
that task correctly. My posts then are in keeping with how they are
formatted now. Except, I did find a few that I did fail to correct OE's
misdeeds. One of them was a first level quotation that was improperly
wraped, and I noted that I did top post from time to time. I will assume,
that I was in a hurry or was distracted at the time. ;-) That was with OE
4.x and OE 5.x.
>
>>
>>Your newsreader is seriously broken. Fix it.
>
> 6/10 OE Version posts are mangled, and Erik is unable to fix the problem,
> so much for Microsoft junk.
>
>
--