[News] [Rival] Windows Vista Makes Low-cost Laptops Impractical (Linux Wins)

[Roy Schestowitz]

EeePC 900 vs HP 2133: Which Linux UMPC Will You Buy?

,----[ Quote ]
| Of note with both machines is that Microsoft still currently plans to stop
| selling Windows XP to OEMs and Retail customers June 30, 2008. This means
| that either company wishing to sell pre-loaded XP machines alongside Linux
| versions will need to ship with Windows Vista. This means at least a 1 Ghz
| CPU and 20 GB of HD all around. It will remain to be seen how the SSD-based
| EeePC 900 will face this potential problem.
`----

http://clumpc.com/?p=147

Related:

Linux will dominate UK schools within 5 years

,----[ Quote ]
| Yes, it does seem unlikely doesn't it? Windows has been the only reality for
| several generations of computer users. But is the tide finally beginning to
| turn?  
|
| At the Education Show held in February 2007, the talk was of 'sustainable'
| computing and how schools could use technology to reduce their 'carbon  
| footprint'. Nobody had any idea of what was to come – a host of Linux-based,
| ultra-portable, incredibly cheap and very green personal laptops.  
`----

http://www.siriusit.co.uk/myblog/linux-will-dominate-uk-schools-within-5-years.html

£99 laptop could hatch the Linux generation

,----[ Quote ]
| This might be considered another brick in the wall to mainstream PC
| manufacturers and Microsoft for two reasons.
|
| Firstly, as my old college chum Martin Waller pointed out to me, this new
| generation of Linux/OpenOffice aficionados would naturally want to transfer
| their skills and technologies into the workplace. This worked for a now
| forgotten computer company called DEC (aka Digital Equipment) in the 1970s. A
| generation of engineering and computer science graduates entered the
| workplace after having used the company’s PDP/11 machine in their college
| years and started demanding to have access to similar, easy-to-use,
| mini-computers at work. This process helped speed the demise of the
| centralised mainframe computer.        
|
| Secondly, for Microsoft to have any hope of being incorporated in to these
| kinds of super-cheap, commodity products then they will have to drop the
| licence fee for Windows and Office.  
`----

http://techlun.ch/2008/02/29/99-laptop-could-hatch-the-linux-generation/

Elonex £99 Eee PC rival to arrive in June

,----[ Quote ]
| Elonex has rolled out its sub-£100 Linux-based laptop, the One, but it looks
| like it's going to prove harder get hold of than Asus Eee PC has been.
`----

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/02/28/elonex_launches_one/

PCs for Five C's

,----[ Quote ]
| These days, several vendors stock $199 Linux systems ready to be the family's
| fifth or sixth.
`----

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/article.php/3730721

How I Shopped for An Ubuntu Laptop

,----[ Quote ]
| So I now have in my happy hands my own custom, personally configured laptop.
| It’s not as good as buying a machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded, but it was a
| close second. I got it fully loaded with aT9300 processor, 2GB of RAM,
| bluetooth, Intel Wireless, and Nvidia 8600m GT graphics. And I got it for
| nearly $1000 less than I was planning on paying for a T61. It’s a little
| bigger than I’d hoped, and has a glossy paintjob which I hate, but it is fast
| and runs Ubuntu like a champ.      
`----

http://allaboutubuntu.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/how-i-shopped-for-an-ubuntu-laptop/

Give an Old Laptop New Life with Cheap (or Free) Projects

,----[ Quote ]
| Like a famed race horse or a classic book, you don't just throw away a laptop
| because it's banged up a little. Even if it seems outdated and underpowered,
| most any laptop is still small, quiet, and relatively low on power
| consumption, making it a seriously valuable spare to keep handy—even without
| a working screen. With some free software, a little know-how and some
| creative thinking about your home network, nearly any old laptop can find its
| second wind, and today I'll run through some of the best ways to get it
| there.      
`----

http://lifehacker.com/359389/give-an-old-laptop-new-life-with-cheap-or-free-projects

Linux Laptops Reach Critical Mass

,----[ Quote ]
| Toss in Ubuntu’s growing popularity on desktops and laptops, and it appears
| as if Linux for PCs and laptops is finally ready to go mainstream. For more
| on Ubuntu and Linux going mainstream,  
`----

http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/02/20/linux-laptops-reach-critical-mass/

Negroponte: OLPC Machine Will Be $50 in 2011, Electronics Are "Obese"

,----[ Quote ]
| "If you make anything electronic today, you know that eighteen months from
| today, it will cost you half of what it does today," he said. "But if you
| make (electronics), you have no interest in that product being half price in
| eighteen months."  
|
| So, as we all know, electronics manufacturers fatten up cell phones with
| cameras and MP3 players, etc. Negroponte termed this problem, "a general
| obesity in the electronics industry." He went on to say, "Most laptops are
| like SUVs. You're using most of the energy to move the car, not the person."  
`----

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/02/negroponte-olpc.html

UK's Elonex releases £99 OLPC rival

,----[ Quote ]
| Referring to the device's use of Linux, the spokesperson said that — aside
| from the fact that avoiding Windows brings down the cost of the laptop — the
| decision was influenced by government guidelines that encourage a "move away
| from the monopoly Microsoft has".  
`----

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39292891,00.htm

The £99 laptop: how can it be so cheap?

,----[ Quote ]
| A new laptop computer for just £99 sounds like the kind of offer found in a
| spam e-mail or on a dodgy auction website. But the British company Elonex is
| launching the country’s first sub £100 computer later this month and hopes to
| be making 200,000 of them by the summer. It will be aimed at schoolchildren
| and teenagers, and looks set to throw the market for budget laptops wide
| open.    
|
| Called the One, it can be used as a traditional notebook computer or, with
| the screen detached from the keyboard, as a portable “tablet” – albeit
| without the planned touchscreen that Elonex had to abandon to hit its £99
| price tag. Wi-fi technology lets users access the internet or swap music (and
| homework) files between computers wirelessly.    
|
| [...]
|
| The secret is simple: open-source software. The One runs on Linux, which is a
| rival to Windows but completely free to use. Open-source software can be
| freely swapped or modified by anyone who wants it. In the past such operating
| systems (there are several of them) have been outgunned by the more
| sophisticated Windows programs. However, an open-source operating system is
| ideal for low-cost devices as it performs well on less powerful, cheaper
| hardware.      
`----

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article3374812.ece

Sri Lanka to introduce one laptop per child

,----[ Quote ]
| Two-million primary school children are to be provided with US$ 100-worth
| laptops under a farsighted initiative.
|
| This is being launched by One Laptop Per Child (OLPC), a US based
| organisation in collaboration with the Education Department and several local
| and foreign financial, technological and academic institutions.  
`----

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/080210/FinancialTimes/ft310.html

Mini-laptop sweeps through schools

,----[ Quote ]
| RM, the company supplying the Minibook computer to schools, sold out its
| first order of 6,000 within weeks, and is now projecting school sales of
| 30,000 by the end of the year. They are attracting the attention of IT
| teachers, and with them a multimillion-pound market in school computing so
| far dominated by Microsoft, the Goliath to RM's David.    
|
| [...]
|
| Last year the government spent £801m on IT equipment for schools. Microsoft
| has the lion's share of the market, but the Minibooks circumvent this iron
| grip by using Linux open source software instead of Microsoft Windows Vista.  
`----

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,2255522,00.html

Nortel considers Linux desktops for its staff

,----[ Quote ]
| Nortel CIO Steve Bandrowczak, who joined the Canadian telecoms and network
| equipment vendor last July, said "more and more CIOs are looking at Linux
| desktop for reasons of TCO" and argued that the technology "is receiving the
| same level of attention today as when Linux started on servers."    
`----

http://www.mbtmag.com/articleXml/LN731846314.html

French police deal blow to Microsoft

,----[ Quote ]
| The French paramilitary police force said Wednesday it is ditching Microsoft
| for the free Linux operating system, becoming one of the biggest
| administrations in the world to make the break.  
`----

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iU4Lq7tOR_WVOJLZ3IeRaIH03x6w

How will Linux win the OS wars? From the bottom up!

,----[ Quote ]
| So therefore, best way to win the war of the operating systems is not to go
| after the high end market.  
`----

http://www.raiden.net/?cat=2&aid=352

[Charlie Wilkes]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:35:34 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> EeePC 900 vs HP 2133: Which Linux UMPC Will You Buy?
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Of note with both machines is that Microsoft still currently plans to
> stop | selling Windows XP to OEMs and Retail customers June 30, 2008.
> This means | that either company wishing to sell pre-loaded XP machines
> alongside Linux | versions will need to ship with Windows Vista. This
> means at least a 1 Ghz | CPU and 20 GB of HD all around. It will remain
> to be seen how the SSD-based | EeePC 900 will face this potential
> problem. `----

I'm sure customers will be delirious with joy running Vista on a 1 ghz
CPU made by VIA.

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft can make that cutoff date
stick, if OEMs tell them its either XP or Linux, but not Vista, for the
UM category.

Charlie

[Martha Adams]

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com...

The low-cost laptops are out there now. I've just bought an Asus 4G
also known as Model 701, it comes with a Linux in it but as you buy
the machine, the Linux is so dumbed-down it's useless. The info
that comes with it has all that "technical stuff" omitted -- what in the
world are those Asus people thinking? ??

However, I soon found how to get past that cute and decorative
interface to the real Linux in there, with some major help from
people here. Resources there included nano, pico, and vi. So
the machine can do serious work, as you might not guess from
the gooey interface it comes with.

So now that little Asus is going to make an *excellent* machine
for travelling. It has wireless. And it illustrates the Microsoft
effect
that you need ever bigger and bigger hardware and software to do
anything (using Windows). *You don't.* 4G of flash disk plus 512
Mb of ram (and three USB ports) is *enough*. This small Asus
running Linux will serve for years to come. Good investment.

Titeotwawki -- mha [cola 2008 Mar 7]

[7]

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> EeePC 900 vs HP 2133: Which Linux UMPC Will You Buy?
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Of note with both machines is that Microsoft still currently plans to
> | stop selling Windows XP to OEMs and Retail customers June 30, 2008.

I think for the EU, the EU regulators must step in to defend against
these new kinds of monopoly abuse whereby a monopoly randomly drops support
for its previous product leaving the entire community of software
developers and those who invested BILLIONs of dollars in product
development see their investment vaporizing.

The EU should force micoshaft to open source ALL API calls into the
monopoly OS so that clean room open source versions of windummy OSen
can be built to PROTECT EU's BILLIONS of dollars of investment.
The EU must extract from micoshaft not to impose charges for use
of abandoned API and clean room versions of software that implement the API.

Otherwise, the EU will be hit with a massive productivity loss and
repatriation and diversion of funds to pro-micoshaft companies that have
been building flawed products that rely on choking off XP to make
customers switch to these flawed products. Its a massive loss for EU
businesses at home and abroad - some 1 TRILLION+ euro worth of business
over the next decade that is about to be lost to companies outside the EU.
The EU regulators are as always asleep drunk on tax payer money and unable
to see new forms of high tech monopoly abuse being sneaked passed in front
of their own eyes.

[Roy Schestowitz]

____/ 7 on Friday 07 March 2008 17:57 : \____

The Commission sits very hard on Microsoft at the moment. Ballmer seems scared
of someone, for a change (watch what he said earlier this week). Microsoft
tries to pretend to comply, but the EU isn't as stupid as Microsoft needs it
to be.

Microsoft won't behave. It's innately malicious. It will have itself fined out
of business while alienating its customers.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Ribbon-type shortcuts in Palm handhelds leads to SMS talk. We must we
abbreviate?
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Cpu(s): 26.0%us, 4.0%sy, 1.0%ni, 64.4%id, 4.2%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.1%si, 0.0%st
http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information

[[H]omer]

Martha Adams wrote:

> The low-cost laptops are out there now. I've just bought an Asus 4G
> also known as Model 701, it comes with a Linux in it but as you buy
> the machine, the Linux is so dumbed-down it's useless.

AFAICT it was dumbed down to please the archetypal Windows crowd, who
apparently find Linux "too technical". Oh well, you can't please all of
the people all of the time, I suppose.

> However, I soon found how to get past that cute and decorative
> interface to the real Linux in there, with some major help from
> people here.

You're welcome.

> And it illustrates the Microsoft effect that you need ever bigger and
> bigger hardware and software to do anything (using Windows). *You
> don't.* 4G of flash disk plus 512 Mb of ram (and three USB ports) is
> *enough*. This small Asus running Linux will serve for years to
> come. Good investment.

Yes indeed. A far better investment than running that same machine with
a legacy OS like XP, which is due for retirement this summer. It makes
one wonder why this is even an option. Will anyone be shirt-sighted
enough to waste their money on a dead OS, I wonder?

--
K.
http://slated.org

.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
01:40:22 up 77 days, 23:16, 5 users, load average: 0.13, 0.69, 1.93

[Roy Schestowitz]

____/ [H]omer on Saturday 08 March 2008 01:40 : \____

> Martha Adams wrote:
>
>> The low-cost laptops are out there now. I've just bought an Asus 4G
>> also known as Model 701, it comes with a Linux in it but as you buy
>> the machine, the Linux is so dumbed-down it's useless.
>
> AFAICT it was dumbed down to please the archetypal Windows crowd, who
> apparently find Linux "too technical". Oh well, you can't please all of
> the people all of the time, I suppose.
>
>> However, I soon found how to get past that cute and decorative
>> interface to the real Linux in there, with some major help from
>> people here.
>
> You're welcome.
>
>> And it illustrates the Microsoft effect that you need ever bigger and
>> bigger hardware and software to do anything (using Windows). *You
>> don't.* 4G of flash disk plus 512 Mb of ram (and three USB ports) is
>> *enough*. This small Asus running Linux will serve for years to
>> come. Good investment.
>
> Yes indeed. A far better investment than running that same machine with
> a legacy OS like XP, which is due for retirement this summer. It makes
> one wonder why this is even an option. Will anyone be shirt-sighted
> enough to waste their money on a dead OS, I wonder?
>

Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in have two
routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance release like SP3. In
any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most Microsoft customers are
still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a teenager.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Microsoft: a device for converting public ignorance into cash
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Mem: 515500k total, 389536k used, 125964k free, 1636k buffers
http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

[Moshe Goldfarb]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:26:56 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in have two
> routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance release like SP3. In
> any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most Microsoft customers are
> still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a teenager.

So?

What effect does this have on the Linux community?

You have had your chance with Windows ME which was a disaster.
Then you had Windows XP which didn't get updated for like 8 years or
something?
Now you have your chance with Windows Vista.

See a pattern here?

I doubt it.

The truth is Linux, despite being free, is still well below 1.0 percent of
the desktop market while OSX is climbing.

Why is that?

Why can't a free operating system gain market share?

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

[Stephan Rose]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:53:25 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:26:56 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>
>> Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in
>> have two routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance
>> release like SP3. In any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most
>> Microsoft customers are still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a
>> teenager.
>
> So?
>
> What effect does this have on the Linux community?
>
> You have had your chance with Windows ME which was a disaster. Then you
> had Windows XP which didn't get updated for like 8 years or something?
> Now you have your chance with Windows Vista.
>
> See a pattern here?
>
> I doubt it.
>
> The truth is Linux, despite being free, is still well below 1.0 percent
> of the desktop market while OSX is climbing.
>
> Why is that?
>
> Why can't a free operating system gain market share?

Because people in the Market do not install or buy operating systems.
They buy "a computer" and use whatever comes on it. Most people are
completely oblivious as to what the it is they are actually using. As
long as they can click a little pretty button and their pictures come up
or their music plays they are happy. They don't care about how or why
this happens nor would most ever be able to even comprehend.

The people that actually install their own operating systems, be that
windows or linux, are a mere fraction and not nearly enough to tip any
scale in any direction on either end.

The only way *any* operating system is ever going to displace windows any
significant amount is by massive pre-installed distribution through the
retail channels.

--
Stephan
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
君の事忘れたときがないから

[Roy Schestowitz]

____/ Stephan Rose on Saturday 08 March 2008 06:27 : \____

The installbase of Linux is far greater than 1%.
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3687616

Microsoft keeps harping about the old FUD, selectively quoting figures from
niche sites. Ballmer said last week that Linux is Microsoft's #1 threat.

Trolls, response? #1 thread, no? Ask your boss, Ballmer.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | http://debian.org

http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E

Cpu(s): 25.9%us, 4.0%sy, 1.0%ni, 64.5%id, 4.2%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.1%si, 0.0%st

[Charlie Wilkes]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:53:25 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:26:56 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>
>> Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in
>> have two routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance
>> release like SP3. In any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most
>> Microsoft customers are still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a
>> teenager.
>
> So?
>
> What effect does this have on the Linux community?
>
> You have had your chance with Windows ME which was a disaster. Then you
> had Windows XP which didn't get updated for like 8 years or something?
> Now you have your chance with Windows Vista.
>
> See a pattern here?

There is a pattern, alright. For years, each new version of Windows
brought enough value to justify the upgrade. But Vista doesn't. And
unlike the situation with ME, Microsoft can't go back to the drawing
board and come up with something better, because this time the
fundamental problem is how people view computers rather than the OS
itself. Linux is not poised to take over the world's desktops... but the
desktop OS is poised to become a less profitable business.

>
> I doubt it.
>
> The truth is Linux, despite being free, is still well below 1.0 percent
> of the desktop market while OSX is climbing.
>
> Why is that?
>
> Why can't a free operating system gain market share?

I would turn that around: how much longer will people continue to pay for
Windows? Microsoft's business model assumes a world where everyone
upgrades every 3 years to a new computer running a new version of Windows
that's even bigger and more complicated than what it replaces. But that
world is fading away. The real news with these UMPCs is not that they
run Linux... it's that people will actually pay money for new computers
with 900 mhz CPUs. Buyers are becoming more sophisticated in how they
evaluate technology. They have gotten burned in the past by assuming
that more is always better... now they can see the value of cheap,
compact machines that cover the basics and are easy to use. Microsoft
can compete against Linux for that market, if it wants to, but it won't
be very profitable.

Charlie

[chrisv]

Charlie Wilkes wrote:

> Microsoft's business model assumes a world where everyone
> upgrades every 3 years to a new computer running a new version of Windows
> that's even bigger and more complicated than what it replaces. But that
> world is fading away.

Right. Vista is the wrong product at the wrong time. Just when the
computing world is really going mobile, M$ comes-out with an OS that
requires 4X the hardware to run adequately. They have really got to go
back to the drawing board, akin to what Intel did when they dumped their
"Netburst" (Pentium 4) architecture to design the far more efficient "Core".

[Charlie Wilkes]

I suspect lots of people within Microsoft have known all along that Vista
is too clunky and basically out of sync with what is happening in the
world. But I also suspect that, at a certain level within the
organization, anyone who delivers that message risks being clobbered by a
flying chair. Hence the marching orders are to keep on keepin' on,
bigger is better, Microsoft will bend the market to its indomitable will.

Charlie

[Tony Drudge]

"Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message
news:PZCdnReCgYhArE_a...@giganews.com...

> On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:53:25 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:26:56 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in
>>> have two routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance
>>> release like SP3. In any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most
>>> Microsoft customers are still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a
>>> teenager.
>>
>> So?
>>
>> What effect does this have on the Linux community?
>>
>> You have had your chance with Windows ME which was a disaster. Then you
>> had Windows XP which didn't get updated for like 8 years or something?
>> Now you have your chance with Windows Vista.
>>
>> See a pattern here?
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> The truth is Linux, despite being free, is still well below 1.0 percent
>> of the desktop market while OSX is climbing.
>>
>> Why is that?
>>
>> Why can't a free operating system gain market share?
>
> Because people in the Market do not install or buy operating systems.
> They buy "a computer" and use whatever comes on it. Most people are
> completely oblivious as to what the it is they are actually using. As
> long as they can click a little pretty button and their pictures come up
> or their music plays they are happy. They don't care about how or why
> this happens nor would most ever be able to even comprehend.

Sounds like the standard COLA excuse. Yet it's often been posted how many
100's of millions of downloads Ubuntu, SuSE and <insert-distro-name-here>
have had. So if Ubuntu and such have had all of these 100's of millions of
downloads as is claimed then there must be something seriously wrong with
linux since all but a few continue to use Windows.

> Stephan
> 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

Wow... a 1986 Pontiac Fiero!!! Almost as impressive as Spike's BS degree.
Save your money and one day you'll afford that 1992 Yugo.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Moshe Goldfarb]

Linux is Microsoft's ONLY threat....
So of course it's their #1 threat as well.

As for figures, I suppose the BBC which came up with 0.8 percent is a niche
site.

Face it Schestowitz, whenever you step outside your usual one way crap
flood, you get hammered.

Next....

[Moshe Goldfarb]

So how do you explain these "millions of downloads" of various Linux and
Open Source programs we see posted here all the time?

The fact is, people try Linux and people dump Linux just as quickly.

[Linonut]

* [H]omer peremptorily fired off this memo:

> Yes indeed. A far better investment than running that same machine with
> a legacy OS like XP, which is due for retirement this summer. It makes
> one wonder why this is even an option. Will anyone be shirt-sighted
> enough to waste their money on a dead OS, I wonder?

Tim claims their selling 'em with Windows in Japan.

Maybe Asus knows something about Microsoft's plans for XP that we don't
know?

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Upbeat-about-Windows-on-the-OLPCs-XO/

However, there are still a couple of "non-trivial technical issues
that are unique to the XO" that remain to be ironed out. The XO has
no hard drive and only 1GB of built-in memory, but at least 2GB of
memory is required for Windows and Office, he said.

A SD slot has been included in the laptop's specification so that a
Windows-Office bundle that fits on a 2GB SD can be added to the
laptop, which is powered by the Linux-based Sugar operating system.

--
It's possible, you can never know, that the universe exists only for me. If so,
it's sure going well for me, I must admit.
-- Bill Gates, TIME magazine Vol. 149, No. 2 (13 January 1997)

[Moshe Goldfarb]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:55:54 -0500, Linonut wrote:

> * [H]omer peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> Yes indeed. A far better investment than running that same machine with
>> a legacy OS like XP, which is due for retirement this summer. It makes
>> one wonder why this is even an option. Will anyone be shirt-sighted
>> enough to waste their money on a dead OS, I wonder?
>
> Tim claims their selling 'em with Windows in Japan.
>
> Maybe Asus knows something about Microsoft's plans for XP that we don't
> know?

They know that most people who buy the Eee with Linux are removing Linux
and installing Windows.
That's what they know.

[Roy Schestowitz]

____/ Charlie Wilkes on Saturday 08 March 2008 11:02 : \____

I still do all my work from a 1.8 GHz box. Very old one...

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz \ Switch to GNU/Linux. Visit http://www.getgnulinux.org/
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

[Roy Schestowitz]

____/ Charlie Wilkes on Saturday 08 March 2008 14:05 : \____

I can probably find the reference if I try hard enough, but even Gates admitted
this. He acknowledged that Vista was a pig (Allchin said this explicitly
before they both resigned) and it had him worried about the future. He's a fan
of mobile devices, tablets in particular.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz \ Switch to GNU/Linux. Visit http://www.getgnulinux.org/

[Stephan Rose]

I did not make those posts nor did I make those claims, therefore I can't
explain something I have no information about.

>
> The fact is, people try Linux and people dump Linux just as quickly.

Actually fact is, people don't even know what it is. People don't try
anything, they run what came on their computer pre-installed.

I did however have a co-worker at my office tell me about her computer at
home, windows me machine still, that was completely messed up. She was
wanting to buy a new computer instead for like $599 that would have had
Vista on it.

So I made a suggestion to her. Since she wasn't using her current
computer for anything (it was in no usable state with all the malware and
crap on it) and since she was planning on buying a new computer anyway
and throw that one away...why not try Ubuntu on it? Nothing to loose so
why not try?

So, next day she brings it in. I install Ubuntu on it. You know what
happened to her plans to buy a new Vista computer? They went down the
drain. She's perfectly happy now with her machine and saved herself quite
some money.

So that is one person who tried Linux and the only thing that was quickly
dumped was the idea of buying a Vista computer.

On that note, the other week she comes to me and actually mentioned one
of her relatives also running Ubuntu now after having heard about it from
her.

[Josh Gabriel]

The Pathetic Liar Spamowitz wrote:
>
> The installbase of Linux is far greater than 1%.
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3687616
>

Can Linux Adoption Ever be Accurately Gauged?
July 9, 2007
By Roy Schestowitz

"Counting the number of Linux users might always remain an impossibility."

*LOL*

[not.fl...@gmail.com]

http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/01/moshe-goldfarb-troll.html
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/01/flatfish-troll.html

[Paul Knudsen]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:23:12 -0600, Stephan Rose <nos...@spammer.com>
wrote:

>I install Ubuntu on it. You know what
>happened to her plans to buy a new Vista computer? They went down the
>drain. She's perfectly happy now with her machine and saved herself quite
>some money.
>
>So that is one person who tried Linux and the only thing that was quickly
>dumped was the idea of buying a Vista computer.

Fine. Not everyone has a guru to do installs for them.

Plus I'm guessing your install wiped all her data.

[Stephan Rose]

That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person is
about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux: Not at
all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies such as
Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know how to
install an OS. :)

>
> Plus I'm guessing your install wiped all her data.

Well obviously formatting a drive is going to remove the data on it, that
after all was the point of what we were trying to achieve. Though I did
advise her that this will happen. However since the only thing she was
going to do with the computer was throw it away so she didn't care about
the contents of the hard drive, there was nothing of any importance on
it. Just a malware and virus ridden WinME installation.

Though even had there been anything of importance, it'd have been trivial
to back up the data from the LiveCD before the installation.

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Stephan Rose" <nos...@spammer.com> wrote in message

news:OMudnRtcQcff_U7a...@giganews.com...

> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0800, Paul Knudsen wrote:

>>
>> Fine. Not everyone has a guru to do installs for them.
>
> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person is
> about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux: Not at
> all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies such as
> Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know how to
> install an OS. :)

Bullshit. You have bifurcated your argument and created a red herring. On
the one hand you imply the person is technically ignorant, yet on the other
hand you imply the user does not need to learn.

What evidence do you have to support a counter-argument along the lines of
pre-installed systems negating the need for users to learn therefore they do
not learn? That does not carry the same implied claim as "preinstalled

systems which don't need the user to know how to install an OS".

The point being, if the system was not pre-installed then the user would
have to read the documentation and follow the instructions, thereby actually
learning something.

Your implication that a pre-installed system is for technically ignorant
people is a logical fallacy on the grounds that there is sufficient
empirical evidence to support the contention that modern consumerism causes
people opt for the quickest solution; the "I want it now!" syndrome. It
follows then that, in this context, consumerism is the cause of the problem,
not technical ignorance.

Comments, please. Or retract your statement about the person's capabilities.

>
>>
>> Plus I'm guessing your install wiped all her data.
>
> Well obviously formatting a drive is going to remove the data on it,

Bullshit. A disk format is not a data wipe.

Do you know anything about computers at all?

> that
> after all was the point of what we were trying to achieve. Though I did
> advise her that this will happen. However since the only thing she was
> going to do with the computer was throw it away so she didn't care about
> the contents of the hard drive, there was nothing of any importance on
> it. Just a malware and virus ridden WinME installation.

WinME is malware. You don't know anything about computers at all, do you?

> Though even had there been anything of importance, it'd have been trivial
> to back up the data from the LiveCD before the installation.

But not trivial for the technically ignorant user, yes?

[Charlie Wilkes]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:57:54 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0800, Paul Knudsen wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:23:12 -0600, Stephan Rose <nos...@spammer.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I install Ubuntu on it. You know what happened to her plans to buy a
>>>new Vista computer? They went down the drain. She's perfectly happy now
>>>with her machine and saved herself quite some money.
>>>
>>>So that is one person who tried Linux and the only thing that was
>>>quickly dumped was the idea of buying a Vista computer.
>>
>> Fine. Not everyone has a guru to do installs for them.
>
> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person
> is about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux:
> Not at all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies
> such as Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know
> how to install an OS. :)

The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in any
way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen the
same thing.

Charlie

[Hadron]

Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> writes:

Nonsense. It might happen once in a blue moon but it is very rare indeed.

[Snit]

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> stated in post
pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com on 3/9/08 1:31 AM:

>> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person
>> is about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux:
>> Not at all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies
>> such as Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know
>> how to install an OS. :)
>
> The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
> systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in any
> way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen the
> same thing.

I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when things
go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is preferable to
spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the system and the
greater the need the more likely they are to replace it.

People do the same thing with cars and other tools.

With that said: I have on multiple occasions been able to clean up a system
that the user figured they would soon replace and make it so it worked well
enough for them to decide to keep it for several more years.

--
BU__SH__

[Tom Lake]

"Hadron" <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:fr07d7$9e1$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

Not nonsense at all. The majority of my calls are from people wanting to
buy
a new PC when all they need is an OS repair or reinstall.

Tom Lake

[Hadron]

"Tom Lake" <toml_...@hotmail.com> writes:

I will take your word for it that it is not nonsense that the majority
of people that call you might want that. It is nonsense to say that the
majority of people who do not call you want that. And one group
significantly outsizes the other.

[Charlie Wilkes]

Why do people need to upgrade? Just so they can run Vista?

As far as I can tell, the gaming and video processing are the two main
consumer activities that call for high-end hardware. The rest of it is
mostly surfing the web, email, downloading and playing music or TV shows,
and running office applications. That's 90% of what people do with their
computers. What value do such people get from an upgrade? Any machine
made in the last 5 years will do fine.

That is why these "ultra-mobile PCs" are selling. People look at them
and think, "how convenient." They don't care if the hard drive is
miniscule and the CPU is a 900 mhz clunker... because they know any damn
computer will be good enough for what they do.

That would not have been true 10 years ago. Back then, there was a HUGE
performance difference between a new machine versus one that was 3 years
old. That is why Bill Gates got to be the richest guy in the world. His
company was selling expensive software licenses that had to be replaced
every 2 or 3 years. But not any more!

Charlie

[Charlie Wilkes]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:38:04 -0700, Snit wrote:

> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> stated in post
> pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com on 3/9/08 1:31 AM:
>
>>> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person
>>> is about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux:
>>> Not at all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies
>>> such as Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know
>>> how to install an OS. :)
>>
>> The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
>> systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in
>> any way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen
>> the same thing.
>
> I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when
> things go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is
> preferable to spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the
> system and the greater the need the more likely they are to replace it.

That's half true. People think it will be almost as expensive to fix as
to replace... but that is only because they don't understand what is
wrong. They think their computer is getting worn out the way an old
engine wears out... but in fact, the hardware is as good as it was brand-
new. All they need is a fresh reinstall from the ground up.

Of course, the OEMs make it difficult for customers to get factory disks,
because they want people to buy new machines. But the disks are
available.

>
> People do the same thing with cars and other tools.
>
> With that said: I have on multiple occasions been able to clean up a
> system that the user figured they would soon replace and make it so it
> worked well enough for them to decide to keep it for several more years.

Exactly. I have done that as well. Sometimes all it takes is a registry
cleaner and a program to get rid of spyware.

Charlie

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com...

> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:38:04 -0700, Snit wrote:

>> I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when
>> things go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is
>> preferable to spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the
>> system and the greater the need the more likely they are to replace it.
>
> That's half true. People think it will be almost as expensive to fix as
> to replace... but that is only because they don't understand what is
> wrong. They think their computer is getting worn out the way an old
> engine wears out... but in fact, the hardware is as good as it was brand-
> new. All they need is a fresh reinstall from the ground up.

You less than fucking useless moron. What the fuck do you think a leaky or
swollen capacitor on a motherboard is akin to if it isn't akin to "wearing
out"?

Grow a fucking brain cell and learn something before you post, you
fuck-knuckled retard.

[Snit]

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> stated in post

pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com on 3/9/08 4:50 AM:

> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:38:04 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> stated in post
>> pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com on 3/9/08 1:31 AM:
>>
>>>> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person
>>>> is about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux:
>>>> Not at all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies
>>>> such as Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know
>>>> how to install an OS. :)
>>>
>>> The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
>>> systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in
>>> any way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen
>>> the same thing.
>>
>> I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when
>> things go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is
>> preferable to spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the
>> system and the greater the need the more likely they are to replace it.
>
> That's half true. People think it will be almost as expensive to fix as
> to replace...

Or just do not want to put much money into an older system.

> but that is only because they don't understand what is wrong.

Right - if they really understood what was going on they would fix it
themselves.

> They think their computer is getting worn out the way an old engine wears
> out... but in fact, the hardware is as good as it was brand- new. All they
> need is a fresh reinstall from the ground up.

They often know that - but do not want to lose their data... and might not
even know how to start from scratch with the machine. Or want to spend the
time it would take them.

> Of course, the OEMs make it difficult for customers to get factory disks,
> because they want people to buy new machines. But the disks are
> available.

They are... but it is absurd to not ship them with machines.

>> People do the same thing with cars and other tools.
>>
>> With that said: I have on multiple occasions been able to clean up a
>> system that the user figured they would soon replace and make it so it
>> worked well enough for them to decide to keep it for several more years.
>
> Exactly. I have done that as well. Sometimes all it takes is a registry
> cleaner and a program to get rid of spyware.

What registry cleaner do you use? I often just use AVG and Spybot - the
latter to not just get rid of spyware but also to stop all the BS startup
items from starting.

--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
--Albert Einstein

[Snit]

"Kadaitcha Man" <nospam.nos...@gmail.com> stated in post
1mt9si....@news.alt.net on 3/9/08 5:14 AM:

That is not the problem when a computer is just slowing down.

> Grow a fucking brain cell and learn something before you post, you
> fuck-knuckled retard.
>
>

--
It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu
speech. -- Mark Twain

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
news:C3F9398F.AD15B%use...@gallopinginsanity.com...

> "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam.nos...@gmail.com> stated in post
> 1mt9si....@news.alt.net on 3/9/08 5:14 AM:
>
>> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com...
>>
>>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:38:04 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>>> I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when
>>>> things go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is
>>>> preferable to spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the
>>>> system and the greater the need the more likely they are to replace it.
>>>
>>> That's half true. People think it will be almost as expensive to fix as
>>> to replace... but that is only because they don't understand what is
>>> wrong. They think their computer is getting worn out the way an old
>>> engine wears out... but in fact, the hardware is as good as it was
>>> brand-
>>> new. All they need is a fresh reinstall from the ground up.
>>
>> You less than fucking useless moron. What the fuck do you think a leaky
>> or
>> swollen capacitor on a motherboard is akin to if it isn't akin to
>> "wearing
>> out"?
>

> That is not<BITCHSLAP>

That is not your decision.

[Stephan Rose]

Oh don't get me wrong. I agree with that a user should and need to learn.
I also agree with the whole "I want it now" crap, I mean look at the
credit mess a lot of people in the US are in which is a direct result of
that.

But fact still remains that not all users learn even if they should. Some
just simply can't as it's beyond their ability to understand, and then
there are others who simply refuse to.

>
>
>>
>>> Plus I'm guessing your install wiped all her data.
>>
>> Well obviously formatting a drive is going to remove the data on it,
>
> Bullshit. A disk format is not a data wipe.
>
> Do you know anything about computers at all?

You format a disk, with a different file system, data is going to be
lost. Yes I know, there are forensic means of recovering the data if
really necessary. But come on, seriously...stay realistic here.

Qualifies as wiped out data to me. What would you qualify?

>
>> that
>> after all was the point of what we were trying to achieve. Though I did
>> advise her that this will happen. However since the only thing she was
>> going to do with the computer was throw it away so she didn't care
>> about the contents of the hard drive, there was nothing of any
>> importance on it. Just a malware and virus ridden WinME installation.
>
> WinME is malware. You don't know anything about computers at all, do
> you?

I said "malware and virus ridden WinME installation", I did not say
"WinME is malware". There is a very major difference in the meaning of
those two sentences.

>
>> Though even had there been anything of importance, it'd have been
>> trivial to back up the data from the LiveCD before the installation.
>
> But not trivial for the technically ignorant user, yes?

Probably not.

[KUTLOZE SCHEEFGEPOEPTE]

"Roy Schestowitz" <newsg...@schestowitz.com> schreef in bericht
news:3086337.X...@schestowitz.com...

Real meaning:
Linux is perfect and that's why I don't know a flying fuck about modern
computing, new Operating Systems, modern gaming, Vista, a.s.o.
Yet I feel the urge to spam usenet with obnoxious crappola and rant people
who develop new top notch products: for instance MS and Novell, I know
nothing about / haven't seen in action!
Get it!!! you stupefying, gelatinous, mind-bogglingly thick Koehlmann
feltcher.
--
<quote>
"Linux is perfect at everything"; Peter Köhlmann: "It is"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/f31c2035e5494b57?dmode=source&output=gplain

[Linonut]

* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:

>> Though even had there been anything of importance, it'd have been trivial
>> to back up the data from the LiveCD before the installation.
>
> But not trivial for the technically ignorant user, yes?

Depends on the live CD K "Man". If it puts drive icons on the desktop,
then it is trivial. Plug in a dongle, and drag'n'drop, I would guess.

I can't say that for sure, as I use the Inside Security INSERT disks,
and you have to know to look for /mnt/hda1, etc.

In any case, this argument is more about the user than about the system.
There are far more ignorant users than knowledgeable users, even for
Windows. People who think their Windows computer is "dead" and that
they've lost all their data, and can the Linonut help them get it back.

Yes he can.

--
The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to
factor large prime numbers.
-- Bill Gates, The Road Ahead (1995), hardcover edition (corrected in
paperback)

[Hadron]

Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> writes:

One reason. I am nit necessarily supporting or damning Vista
here. Personally I dont like Vista. But "most" people do not buy a new
machine when XP could be tidied up. We didn't even mention Vista. You
are throwing in a strawman.

But I guess that most people who move to Vista will upgrade at the same
time.

Jesus, I know people who upgraded for Quake III!

> As far as I can tell, the gaming and video processing are the two main
> consumer activities that call for high-end hardware. The rest of it is
> mostly surfing the web, email, downloading and playing music or TV shows,
> and running office applications. That's 90% of what people do with their
> computers. What value do such people get from an upgrade? Any machine
> made in the last 5 years will do fine.

You are correct. But flawed in your interpretations. Even if it IS only
10% of the time playing games, then the PC must still be up to it.

>
> That is why these "ultra-mobile PCs" are selling. People look at them
> and think, "how convenient." They don't care if the hard drive is
> miniscule and the CPU is a 900 mhz clunker... because they know any damn
> computer will be good enough for what they do.

Which in a mobile environment does not involve gaming or video rendering
etc etc. I use a years old laptop - a Thinkpad x30. But guess what?
Despite a gig of ram it runs Open Office like a dog. It's simply not
powerful enough IMO.

>
> That would not have been true 10 years ago. Back then, there was a HUGE
> performance difference between a new machine versus one that was 3 years
> old. That is why Bill Gates got to be the richest guy in the world. His
> company was selling expensive software licenses that had to be replaced
> every 2 or 3 years. But not any more!

What is not anymore? MS just made record profits.

[Philip]

<cross-post groups removed>

A lot of them have PC they bought with Windows pre-installed. If they
actually got a Windows disk to refresh with they were lucky. Mostly they
have the original on a backup disk partition, which hopefully they have
not lost. Assuming they they can restore to factory conditions, they may
have hours of service packs and patches to download, followed by
uncountable reboots to get back to a usable system. Then of course they
have to re-load all the 3rd party applications they purchased. Hopefully
they do not get infected by a prowling worm while doing this. Of course
they could just go buy the latest Window OS, but then the old hardware
is inadequate for it.

No wonder they think it easier to buy a new system. In reality, the
least energy path is to just switch to Linux.

[DFS]

Philip wrote:

> A lot of them have PC they bought with Windows pre-installed.

How do you know?

> If they
> actually got a Windows disk to refresh with they were lucky.

Yes, and this is a scam on the part of the retailers. BestBuy now charges
$10 for a restore disk.

> Mostly
> they have the original on a backup disk partition, which hopefully
> they have not lost. Assuming they they can restore to factory
> conditions, they may have hours of service packs and patches to
> download,

But Linux updates and patches don't take any time to download. Nice: the
perfect "operating system" also performs miracles.

> followed by uncountable reboots to get back to a usable system.

One reboot at the end of the OS install, one at the end of SP2 install.
Other than that, you usually (I'd say 8 out of 10 times) don't have to
reboot Windows machines after software installations.

> Then of course they have to re-load all the 3rd party
> applications they purchased.

But with Linux you don't have to reload the apps. Another miracle from the
perfect "operating system".

> Hopefully they do not get infected by a
> prowling worm while doing this. Of course they could just go buy the
> latest Window OS, but then the old hardware is inadequate for it.

Sez you.

Any average machine purchased in the last 3-4 years (w/ 1gb RAM and a cheap
video card) is enough for Vista w/ Aero. Add another gb of RAM ($25) and
even better. Basically, whatever it takes to stay away from the OSS crud.

> No wonder they think it easier to buy a new system.

Why would they think that? Is the new system going to magically have all
their great Windows apps already installed, with all settings and
configurations in place?

> In reality, the least energy path is to just switch to Linux.

Good line. Linux: when you're just plain lazy

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>

This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.

[Mrs Smith]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:24:52 +0100, Hadron wrote:

> I am nit

http://www.head-lice-gone.com/

[Charlie Wilkes]

That happens once in awhile, but I have too many old computers that still
work as well as they did brand new.

Charlie

[Charlie Wilkes]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 06:51:26 -0700, Snit wrote:

> What registry cleaner do you use? I often just use AVG and Spybot - the
> latter to not just get rid of spyware but also to stop all the BS
> startup items from starting.
>

I use RegscrubXP and Regseeker for really old (w98) systems.

I don't know that they are the best, but they have never caused me any
problems.

Charlie

[Kadaitcha Man]

So, you admit your original statement was a lie.

[Mrs Smith]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:06:50 +1100, Kadaitcha Man wrote:

> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com...
>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:14:37 +1100, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
>>
>>> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2008.03...@users.easynews.com...
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:38:04 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I think it is more true that old systems are sometimes replaced when
>>>>> things go screwy because it is decided getting a new system is
>>>>> preferable to spending the time / money to fix the old. The older the
>>>>> system and the greater the need the more likely they are to replace
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> That's half true. People think it will be almost as expensive to fix
>>>> as to replace... but that is only because they don't understand what is
>>>> wrong. They think their computer is getting worn out the way an old
>>>> engine wears out... but in fact, the hardware is as good as it was
>>>> brand- new. All they need is a fresh reinstall from the ground up.
>>>
>>> You less than fucking useless moron. What the fuck do you think a leaky
>>> or swollen capacitor on a motherboard is akin to if it isn't akin to
>>> "wearing out"?
>>
>> That happens once in awhile, but I have too many old computers that still
>> work as well as they did brand new.
>
> So, you admit your original statement was a lie.

Well, birds of a feather...

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Mrs Smith" <Mrs....@grossville.com> wrote in message
news:63kc68F...@mid.individual.net...

Oh, shut the fuck up, you canyon-cunted trollop.

[Mrs Smith]

Care to try and make me, you ill-bred lout?

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Mrs Smith" <Mrs....@grossville.com> wrote in message

news:63khkvF...@mid.individual.net...

No, not at all. I'll merely accept your tacit admission to having a canyon
cunt and leave it at that.

[Linonut]

* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:

> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message

You poor, self-deluded fool.

--
As we look ahead into the next century, leaders will be those who empower
others.
-- Bill Gates

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message

news:%D9Bj.15364$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>> news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>
>>
>> This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.
>

> You poor<BITCHSLAP>

Guess again.

[Hadron]

"Kadaitcha Man" <nospam.nos...@gmail.com> writes:

Liarnut does strike me as someones beotch alright.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2008-03-09, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:57:54 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0800, Paul Knudsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:23:12 -0600, Stephan Rose <nos...@spammer.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>

>>>>>I install Ubuntu on it. You know what happened to her plans to buy a
>>>>>new Vista computer? They went down the drain. She's perfectly happy now
>>>>>with her machine and saved herself quite some money.
>>>>>
>>>>>So that is one person who tried Linux and the only thing that was
>>>>>quickly dumped was the idea of buying a Vista computer.

>>>>
>>>> Fine. Not everyone has a guru to do installs for them.
>>>
>>> That goes for Windows as much as it goes for Linux though. This person
>>> is about as capable of installing windows as she is installing linux:
>>> Not at all. I suspect that is the reason for the success of companies
>>> such as Dell...preinstalled systems which don't need the user to know
>>> how to install an OS. :)
>>

>> The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
>> systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in any
>> way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen the
>> same thing.
>
> Nonsense. It might happen once in a blue moon but it is very rare indeed.

My mother-in-law recently did just this. Her old machine got bogged
down by malware so she thought she needed to get a new machine. So
she goes out and buys this new machine...

...just to get it loaded down with malware crap.

We clean it off a couple of times for her and tell her to be
more careful. She just ignores us and gets herself re-infected.

Plenty of people thing "slow machine" -> "need to buy new machine".

That's been the usual consumer thinking for the first 20 years of the
consumer computer industry where the progress of software actually
made this somewhat reasonable.

--
Nothing quite gives you an understanding of mysql's |||
popularity as does an attempt to do some simple date / | \
manipulations in postgres.

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[Hadron]

JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:

One in a blue moon. I am always amazed at how in COLA people think
everyone else are incompetent. And at the same time COLA advocates
demand "proof" that a consistent UI is a good thing. Amazing.

>
> ...just to get it loaded down with malware crap.
>
> We clean it off a couple of times for her and tell her to be
> more careful. She just ignores us and gets herself re-infected.
>
> Plenty of people thing "slow machine" -> "need to buy new machine".

No. SOME people do. Most people never even get this slow down because
they set up XP properly and do not run exes from porn sites.

[Linonut]

* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:

> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
> news:%D9Bj.15364$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>> news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>
>>>
>>> This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.
>>
>> You poor<BITCHSLAP>
>
> Guess again.

An old, juvenile schtick.

Virtual bitch-slaps are singularly ineffective.

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message

news:XhdBj.14322$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>> news:%D9Bj.15364$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>> news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>>> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>
>>>>
>>>> This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.
>>>
>>> You poor<BITCHSLAP>
>>
>> Guess again.
>

> A<BITCHSLAP>

Wrong guess. Have another go.

[Linonut]

* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:

> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
> news:XhdBj.14322$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>> news:%D9Bj.15364$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>>
>>>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>
>>>>>
>>>>> This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.
>>>>
>>>> You poor<BITCHSLAP>
>>>
>>> Guess again.
>>
>> A<BITCHSLAP>
>
> Wrong guess. Have another go.

Nah, I'm done. Feel free to take one more gratuitous bitch-slap, Moe.
Nuk nuk.

--
Information technology and business are becoming inextricably interwoven. I
don't think anybody can talk meaningfully about one without the talking
about the other.
-- Bill Gates

[Kadaitcha Man]

"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message

news:bOiBj.15605$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>> news:XhdBj.14322$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>> news:%D9Bj.15364$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>* Kadaitcha Man peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ZTSAj.4705$by3...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any case, this argument is more about<BITCHSLAP>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This argument is about whatever I decide it's about.
>>>>>
>>>>> You poor<BITCHSLAP>
>>>>
>>>> Guess again.
>>>
>>> A<BITCHSLAP>
>>
>> Wrong guess. Have another go.
>
> Nah, I'm done.

In more ways than one.

[JEDIDIAH]

Simple and functional trumps consistent.

This is why Xsane has always been better than the "more
consistent" windows scanner interfaces. It hides a lot of the
potential complexity of scanning.

There's more to UI design than just having the file menu
layed out in a particular order.

>
>>
>> ...just to get it loaded down with malware crap.
>>
>> We clean it off a couple of times for her and tell her to be
>> more careful. She just ignores us and gets herself re-infected.
>>
>> Plenty of people thing "slow machine" -> "need to buy new machine".
>
> No. SOME people do. Most people never even get this slow down because
> they set up XP properly and do not run exes from porn sites.

Yes, it's all because my mother-in-law surfs for _porn_.

Sometimes you people are better at making our point than we are.

--
...as if the ability to run Cubase ever made or broke a platform.
|||
/ | \

[Hadron]

JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:

Ye gods. They go together.

>
> This is why Xsane has always been better than the "more
> consistent" windows scanner interfaces. It hides a lot of the
> potential complexity of scanning.
>
> There's more to UI design than just having the file menu
> layed out in a particular order.

Do you really think that is all we mean by "consistent"?

There is a LOT to UI design as you acknowledge. But consistency and
component reuse is a major "must have" in any performing desktop.

[chrisv]

> Hadron wrote:

>>
>> Charlie Wilkes writes:
>>>
>>> The significant point (to me at least) is that people replace their
>>> systems not because the hardware is too old or too slow or damaged in any
>>> way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen the
>>> same thing.
>>
>> Nonsense. It might happen once in a blue moon but it is very rare indeed.

LOL

You stupid POS, Quack. Your pathetic attempt to defend your beloved
Microshaft Corp is known to be false. "Once in a blue moon indeed."
It happens A LOT.

[chrisv]

Mrs Smith wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:50:07 +1100, Kadaitcha Man wrote:

*plonk*

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2008-03-11, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2008-03-10, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-03-09, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:57:54 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0800, Paul Knudsen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:23:12 -0600, Stephan Rose <nos...@spammer.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:

[deletia]

>>>>>> way, but because the OS has gotten screwed up over time. I've seen the
>>>>>> same thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense. It might happen once in a blue moon but it is very rare indeed.
>>>>
>>>> My mother-in-law recently did just this. Her old machine got bogged
>>>> down by malware so she thought she needed to get a new machine. So
>>>> she goes out and buys this new machine...
>>>
>>> One in a blue moon. I am always amazed at how in COLA people think
>>> everyone else are incompetent. And at the same time COLA advocates
>>> demand "proof" that a consistent UI is a good thing. Amazing.
>>
>> Simple and functional trumps consistent.
>
> Ye gods. They go together.
>
>>
>> This is why Xsane has always been better than the "more
>> consistent" windows scanner interfaces. It hides a lot of the
>> potential complexity of scanning.
>>

>> There's more to UI design than just having the file menu
>> layed out in a particular order.
>
> Do you really think that is all we mean by "consistent"?
>
> There is a LOT to UI design as you acknowledge. But consistency and
> component reuse is a major "must have" in any performing desktop.

Component reuse != consistency.

Don't be a clueless moron.

Although I've brought up the idea of "system menuing" before
where these consistent menus you guys like to fixate on so much are
provided by the OS/API rather than just being something you mock up
in visual studio.

[Hadron]

JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:

Oh dear me. It's one of the baselines. If you know what component
means in this context that is. And you obviously don't.

>
> Don't be a clueless moron.
>
> Although I've brought up the idea of "system menuing" before
> where these consistent menus you guys like to fixate on so much are
> provided by the OS/API rather than just being something you mock up
> in visual studio.

WTF are you waffling on about?

The "OS" provides sweet FA in Linux case. The components and standards
are defined by Gnome/KDE/QT/X etc.

[chrisv]

JEDIDIAH wrote:

>> Do you really think that is all we mean by "consistent"?
>>
>> There is a LOT to UI design as you acknowledge. But consistency and
>> component reuse is a major "must have" in any performing desktop.
>
> Component reuse != consistency.
>
> Don't be a clueless moron.

Hell, it's impossible to know if the Quack troll is a clueless moron
or a dishonest asshole, in this case. Of course, he has demonstrated
in the past that he is both...

[Hadron]

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> writes:

OK Chrisv, please explain how reusing UI components does not support
consistency.

I will be waiting ......

You will notice I said "consistency AND ...." BTW, even though I could
also have said "THROUGH".

Are you guys really so clueless about how things are built?

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
<newsg...@schestowitz.com>
wrote
on Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:18:37 +0000
<1557536.o...@schestowitz.com>:
> ____/ Stephan Rose on Saturday 08 March 2008 06:27 : \____
>
>> On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:53:25 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:26:56 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Some say that Microsoft might have no choice but to 'fork' XP, as in
>>>> have two routes for it -- a broken one (Vista) and a maintenance
>>>> release like SP3. In any event, Linux keeps evolving very quickly. Most
>>>> Microsoft customers are still stuck with an O/S from the days I was a
>>>> teenager.
>>>
>>> So?
>>>
>>> What effect does this have on the Linux community?
>>>
>>> You have had your chance with Windows ME which was a disaster. Then you
>>> had Windows XP which didn't get updated for like 8 years or something?
>>> Now you have your chance with Windows Vista.
>>>
>>> See a pattern here?
>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> The truth is Linux, despite being free, is still well below 1.0 percent
>>> of the desktop market while OSX is climbing.
>>>
>>> Why is that?
>>>
>>> Why can't a free operating system gain market share?
>>
>> Because people in the Market do not install or buy operating systems.
>> They buy "a computer" and use whatever comes on it. Most people are
>> completely oblivious as to what the it is they are actually using. As
>> long as they can click a little pretty button and their pictures come up
>> or their music plays they are happy. They don't care about how or why
>> this happens nor would most ever be able to even comprehend.
>>
>> The people that actually install their own operating systems, be that
>> windows or linux, are a mere fraction and not nearly enough to tip any
>> scale in any direction on either end.
>>
>> The only way *any* operating system is ever going to displace windows any
>> significant amount is by massive pre-installed distribution through the
>> retail channels.
>
> The installbase of Linux is far greater than 1%.
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3687616

"Can Linux Adoption Ever be Accurately Gauged?"
by Roy Schestowitz.

One must tread carefully here (Roy tooting his own horn,
after all), but clearly the standard purchasing channels
are going to have difficulty tracking what is essentially
a stealth option for control software on a modern desktop.

Linux is an excellent option, too.

Roy also correctly brings up the points:

- CD exchange. (Good luck tracking that, especially if the
CD exchanged is burned from an image obtained by other means.)
- Internet download of CD images.
- BitTorrent sharing (decentralized distribution) of CD images.
- Linux counter regstration (with limited success).
- Website request tracking sample bias.
- "Unknown" discard of website request tracking, even though it is
statistically significant.
- Proxies.
- Rejection of non-IE browsers for compatibility reasons, and the
impersonation response skewing the numbers.
- zombie botnets.
- Bias introduced because of the assumption that everyone's on the
Internet, the Web, or both.

Roy does *not* mention dual-boots, though from my usage
thereof the second boot (in my case, Linux XP) is rather
rare anyway.

Roy also does not mention options such as VmWare; these are
probably rarely used by the lay public.

At best, one might be able to accurately state that "Linux
enjoys a 0.6% market rate (after discarding "Unknown")
on all Internet-connected, Web-capable, Web-used devices,
based on information tallied from this website, which
includes zombie botnets and IE impersonators." Good luck
narrowing it down further, especially since one of those
devices is an iPhone.

>
> Microsoft keeps harping about the old FUD, selectively
> quoting figures from niche sites. Ballmer said last week
> that Linux is Microsoft's #1 threat.
>
> Trolls, response? #1 thread, no? Ask your boss, Ballmer.
>

--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. Because it's not the desktop that's
important, it's the ability to DO something
with it.

--
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