Vmware question
B Gruff
some applications for which there is not an immediate Linux replacement, to
install a dual boot.
Vmware-server (for example) is now free, as in beer/gratis.
Having tried it briefly, I get the impression that there is nothing that one
can't do from a Virtual Windows that one could do from a separate Windows
partition.
In fact, I wish that I had known about it, and been able to use it, when I
first tried Linux. It would have been a great help to me to have been able
to use some applications in Windows until I was happy with Linux
alternatives.
Am I wrong in thinking that a Virtual Windows is as good as a "real" one
(fast games apart?) or am I missing something?
In short, what are the limitations, and is a separate Windows partition
better for anything, and if so, what?
Sean Inglis
I use VMWare workstation to manage multiple virtual WIN2K servers under
Ubuntu, for a canned secure client, and VS2003/VS2005 development.
Advantages: Trivially easy management, ability to rollback after SPs have
frigged my config, easy to clone and manage VMs
Disadvantages: Unable to use the WinCE emulator, occasional stuttering on
sound if heavy IO, throttled graphics performance.
Overall I would not be without it, and if I could persuade my employer to
host all our development images under VMWare, I'd be happy.
Hadron Quark
There was a thread about it a while ago. I use vmware for a couple of
apps and it is simply excellent. I run xp pro under Ubuntu 6.10 with no
problems. In fact, the sound is more reliable which surprised me.
Erik Funkenbusch
> We always seem to advise people switching from Windows, and who still have
> some applications for which there is not an immediate Linux replacement, to
> install a dual boot.
There's no doubt that virtualization is a great solution to a lot of
problems.
> Vmware-server (for example) is now free, as in beer/gratis.
As is the player, and Microsoft's Virtual Server and workstation.
> Having tried it briefly, I get the impression that there is nothing that one
> can't do from a Virtual Windows that one could do from a separate Windows
> partition.
Mostly, though there are some things. Games are difficult, if not
impossible to play, largely because there's only very simple video
emulation, though VMWare has an experimental DirectX virtualization
feature. Another issue is anything that requires periphials. TV Tuners,
for instance, won't work. USB support is there in the workstation version,
but not server.
> Am I wrong in thinking that a Virtual Windows is as good as a "real" one
> (fast games apart?) or am I missing something?
> In short, what are the limitations, and is a separate Windows partition
> better for anything, and if so, what?
Largely what I just said. Games, device support... with OS's now making
more use of the GPU, that's going to be a bit of a problem. No Aero Glass
or 3D desktop, for instance...
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
I run XP at work in a vmware instance. No way I want to waste my time
running on the machine directly :) I need to get work done...
VMWare rocks. We use vmware server for building test "farms" with a
duiplicate of production to allow full function testing of the code.
Snapshot, deploy, test, recover from snapshot. Works great. But running
20 or so vms on a server can get a bit slow.
Which is why I've spent the last few weeks building the perf lab test
setup...
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
B Gruff
> On 24 Nov 2006 22:00:28 GMT, B Gruff wrote:
>
>> We always seem to advise people switching from Windows, and who still
>> have some applications for which there is not an immediate Linux
>> replacement, to install a dual boot.
>
> There's no doubt that virtualization is a great solution to a lot of
> problems.
>
>> Vmware-server (for example) is now free, as in beer/gratis.
>
> As is the player, and Microsoft's Virtual Server and workstation.
I appreciate that - and some others, in fact.
It's just that vmware-server is all I've tried to date....
>> Having tried it briefly, I get the impression that there is nothing that
>> one can't do from a Virtual Windows that one could do from a separate
>> Windows partition.
>
> Mostly, though there are some things. Games are difficult, if not
> impossible to play, largely because there's only very simple video
> emulation, though VMWare has an experimental DirectX virtualization
> feature. Another issue is anything that requires periphials. TV Tuners,
> for instance, won't work. USB support is there in the workstation
> version, but not server.
You surprise me there.
"peripherals" as in printers, for example?
I've tried installing printers which are not installed in the host, and that
seems OK for my two network printers (Network as in Network Printer and
Network Printer/Scanner - stand-alone, not hosted by a computer)
USB sticks seem OK.
Camera works
(This is all in vmware-server)
What did you have in mind?
>> Am I wrong in thinking that a Virtual Windows is as good as a "real" one
>> (fast games apart?) or am I missing something?
>> In short, what are the limitations, and is a separate Windows partition
>> better for anything, and if so, what?
>
> Largely what I just said. Games, device support... with OS's now making
> more use of the GPU, that's going to be a bit of a problem. No Aero Glass
> or 3D desktop, for instance...
Yes, I can see that.
In particular, I'm thinking of people currently using XP and all the way
back to W95 coming to Linux, and talking "serious" use rather than games.
At the moment, I believe that I could actually delete my own W2K partition,
and re-install W2K into Linux as a virtual machine.
All I've used the W2K for to date (past 18 months) has been OCR, which is
described as "a barren area" for linux!
My wife uses Windows for some of her ancestry stuff, but that's about it.
I reckon we'll be able to delete those partitions soon, and just use Linux,
hosting a VM for the bits we need.
Hadron Quark
> You surprise me there.
> "peripherals" as in printers, for example?
Me too. I can print from vmware XP pro to my HP under Ubuntu 6.10 edgy.
Sinister Midget
> On Friday 24 November 2006 23:32 Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> Largely what I just said. Games, device support... with OS's now making
>> more use of the GPU, that's going to be a bit of a problem. No Aero Glass
>> or 3D desktop, for instance...
>
> Yes, I can see that.
> In particular, I'm thinking of people currently using XP and all the way
> back to W95 coming to Linux, and talking "serious" use rather than games.
The notion of installing *any* virutal instance to play games on *any*
platform is a retarded idea. Which is why Erik had to throw it in. He
knows nobody would be dumb enough to do it twice.
Not even 2 different versions of Winders would work well if running one
of them via MS Virtual Anything with a goal of playing games.
--
Windows: In what position would you like to be taken today?
Robt. Miller
I'm running a 20 user Terminal Server in a VM that's outperforming our
Terminal Server on a dedicated machine. Not sure why but browsing the
network is way faster in the VM.
--
(o< |)
//\ ..may the beacon /\obt.
V_/_ pass you by.. /\/\iller
12:10pm up 62 days 2:33, 27 users, load average: 0.01, 0.06, 0.14
processes 2610987
Linonut
> At the moment, I believe that I could actually delete my own W2K partition,
> and re-install W2K into Linux as a virtual machine.
> All I've used the W2K for to date (past 18 months) has been OCR, which is
> described as "a barren area" for linux!
Win2K is a good option. Just make sure you have enough RAM for both
OS's. Probably want a Gb on your host.
> My wife uses Windows for some of her ancestry stuff, but that's about it.
> I reckon we'll be able to delete those partitions soon, and just use Linux,
> hosting a VM for the bits we need.
The only issue I've seen with VMWare (player/workstation) is that, if
your network setup has a problem, your VM will blue-screen (I'm using
bridging).
--
Don't flip the Bozo Bit.
B Gruff
> After takin' a swig o' grog, B Gruff belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> At the moment, I believe that I could actually delete my own W2K
>> partition, and re-install W2K into Linux as a virtual machine.
>> All I've used the W2K for to date (past 18 months) has been OCR, which is
>> described as "a barren area" for linux!
>
> Win2K is a good option. Just make sure you have enough RAM for both
> OS's. Probably want a Gb on your host.
Thanks 'nut:-)
- by coincidence, a small cardboard box with a couple of 512MB chips dropped
through the letter box yesterday - I anticipated you:-)
Erik Funkenbusch
>> Mostly, though there are some things. Games are difficult, if not
>> impossible to play, largely because there's only very simple video
>> emulation, though VMWare has an experimental DirectX virtualization
>> feature. Another issue is anything that requires periphials. TV Tuners,
>> for instance, won't work. USB support is there in the workstation
>> version, but not server.
>
> You surprise me there.
> "peripherals" as in printers, for example?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. I was referring to add-ins, like SCSI
Scanners, or things that require dedicated hardware, though this is
becoming less and less common.
Certainly, anything that uses most of the standard ports will likely work.
> At the moment, I believe that I could actually delete my own W2K partition,
> and re-install W2K into Linux as a virtual machine.
> All I've used the W2K for to date (past 18 months) has been OCR, which is
> described as "a barren area" for linux!
> My wife uses Windows for some of her ancestry stuff, but that's about it.
> I reckon we'll be able to delete those partitions soon, and just use Linux,
> hosting a VM for the bits we need.
Yes, for those purposes, I don't think you'll have much, if any, problem,
so long as you're using USB devices (usb Scanner, etc..). You'll have to
use the workstation version, though, as the server version doesn't have USB
support.
Erik Funkenbusch
>> Yes, I can see that.
>> In particular, I'm thinking of people currently using XP and all the way
>> back to W95 coming to Linux, and talking "serious" use rather than games.
>
> The notion of installing *any* virutal instance to play games on *any*
> platform is a retarded idea. Which is why Erik had to throw it in. He
> knows nobody would be dumb enough to do it twice.
Not at all. Lots of games will work just fine. I have a ton of older
games that have no problems. It's just stuff that requires 3D that has
problems.
> Not even 2 different versions of Winders would work well if running one
> of them via MS Virtual Anything with a goal of playing games.
Like I said, depends on the games.
Erik Funkenbusch
> After takin' a swig o' grog, B Gruff belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> At the moment, I believe that I could actually delete my own W2K partition,
>> and re-install W2K into Linux as a virtual machine.
>> All I've used the W2K for to date (past 18 months) has been OCR, which is
>> described as "a barren area" for linux!
>
> Win2K is a good option. Just make sure you have enough RAM for both
> OS's. Probably want a Gb on your host.
Yes, memory is a good idea. VMWare actually uses memory a lot more
efficiently than Microsoft's VM Products. In fact, I prefer VMWare for
most things. Microsoft's server console is a little better in my opinion,
though.
> The only issue I've seen with VMWare (player/workstation) is that, if
> your network setup has a problem, your VM will blue-screen (I'm using
> bridging).
That's the biggest problem with virtualization. If your host dies, so goes
all your VM's.
Sinister Midget
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:30:58 GMT, Sinister Midget wrote:
>
>>> Yes, I can see that.
>>> In particular, I'm thinking of people currently using XP and all the way
>>> back to W95 coming to Linux, and talking "serious" use rather than games.
>>
>> The notion of installing *any* virutal instance to play games on *any*
>> platform is a retarded idea. Which is why Erik had to throw it in. He
>> knows nobody would be dumb enough to do it twice.
>
> Not at all. Lots of games will work just fine. I have a ton of older
> games that have no problems. It's just stuff that requires 3D that has
> problems.
Oh. You mean games that would also work just fine under VMWare or QEMU?
>> Not even 2 different versions of Winders would work well if running one
>> of them via MS Virtual Anything with a goal of playing games.
>
> Like I said, depends on the games.
Nice way to negate your own "point".
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
That may be true for vmware-server running on MS-Windows, I don't know.
But running on a Linux host, usb works fine with vmware-server.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know, there's a word for people who
think that everyone is out to get them...'
`Yes! Perceptive!' --Woody Allen
B Gruff
You beat me to it. I was just about to point out to Erik that all my
comments/experiences in this thread apply to vmware-server.
Tell me, for what I'm doing, should I be looking at "player"?
Is there any advantage?
Am I likely as well off with vmware-server in mine and wife's machines?
I'm not after administering a factory-full of machines - just the two "main
work machines" really.
Sinister Midget
I asked about getting vmware-player working on the Sabayon forum
because I hosed the install every time I tried. I was advised to go
with server because of some big advantages it had over player. So I
did. It worked fine.
Including USB (with an external writer), the printer, etc.
--
"Until we had this concept of Web services, software on the
Internet couldn't talk to other software on the Internet."
-- Bill Gates Chairman, Microsoft 10/29/2003
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
AIUI, server is more geared to, well, serving. Player's a little more
lightwieght. Can't say I've noticed any difference, but server has more
features I use, like snapshots. (Workstation is better still, but,
that's not gratis, at least, not yet)
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from
sarcasm
-- Erik Naggum
B Gruff
>> Tell me, for what I'm doing, should I be looking at "player"?
>> Is there any advantage?
>> Am I likely as well off with vmware-server in mine and wife's machines?
>> I'm not after administering a factory-full of machines - just the two
>> "main work machines" really.
>>
>>
>
> AIUI, server is more geared to, well, serving. Player's a little more
> lightwieght. Can't say I've noticed any difference, but server has more
> features I use, like snapshots. (Workstation is better still, but,
> that's not gratis, at least, not yet)
OK - thanks Jim/SM.
That'll do me.
I'll shove the extra memory in when I get around tuit, play some more with
vmware-server in my experimental partition, then do the job for real on
both machines, at the same time as i "update" to a more recent version of
the OS, and stick with server on both.
I just need to understand how to do a backup of the VM now, and how best to
get host and VM sharing data, I guess.
Much obliged to you all:-)
Tom Shelton
Samba works. When I was running XP as a guest on Gentoo - I simply
setup a samba share and mapped the drive on the XP VM. Worked great.
--
Tom Shelton
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
Backups of the VM are simple. Shut it down (or suspend it) and tarball
up the directory... done. You can also take a snapshot, and revert
later.
Sharing data you can do via the normal shared filesystems, NFS, SAMBA,
etc. Whatever the host and the VM OSen can do.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Nine out of ten of the voices in my head say "Don't shoot!"
Linonut
> Samba works. When I was running XP as a guest on Gentoo - I simply
> setup a samba share and mapped the drive on the XP VM. Worked great.
I have my Rational Clearcase archive on a reiserfs partition, shared by
Samba. I use a VM to check code in and out, and synch up. It's a bit
slow, but works. Worth the cost of a tainted kernel for me.
--
"It turns out Luddites don't know how to use software properly,
so you should look into that." -- Bill Gates, FOCUS interview
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html