[News] Printer 'Pirate' Tax, Hard-drive Software Blocks So-called 'Pirates' (Everyone)
Roy Schestowitz
Tracker
,----[ Quote ]
| The manual's appendix and online support site provide setup instructions for
| SAMBA, allowing access over IP instead of with the DRM-infested and
| poorly-reviewed client app, elsewhere claimed to be "required."
|
| MOAR! Samba not enough? Gut the firmware and install made-to-measure Linux:
| An entire community of folks is here to help you hack your MyBook:
| mybookworld.wikidot.com.
`----
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/12/western-digital.html
...Just like Vista and its DRM madness. Another reason to run away to Linux, if
they let you (avoid Seagate).
Seagate snubs Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| As our reader points out this is a, "fairly shit idea perfectly
| implemented, " unfortunately while Windows can handle it, Linux and Mac's
| can't cope.
|
| There are a few work-arounds but Seagate Tech Support says they do not know
| what they are. Instead they are telling man plus dog that their latest drives
| do not support Linux.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/06/seagate-snubs-linux
Another new example:
German Supreme Court rejects copyright fee for printers
,----[ Quote ]
| Printer manufacturer Hewlett-Packard has announced that the German Supreme
| Court ruled in a hearing that the firm will not have to pay a flat fee to
| German copyright collective VG Wort to cover copyrights.
`----
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/100227/from/rss09
...Not just CDs, tapes and USB drives anymore. Maybe they should also treat
everyone as a criminal (until proven otherwise), just like "TV Licence"...
ormaybe they should ban everything that /could/ be used as a weapon. Didn't
they make Fedora barely legal in Russia because there's no 'receipt'/printed
licence?
Related:
Overly-broad copyright law has made USA a "nation of infringers"
,----[ Quote ]
| Tehranian's paper points out just how pervasive copyright has become in our
| lives. Simply checking one's e-mail and including the full text in response
| could be a violation of copyright.
`----
Mom Sues Universal Music for DMCA Abuse
,----[ Quote ]
| The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed suit today against Universal
| Music Publishing Group (UMPG), asking a federal court to protect the fair use
| and free speech rights of a mother who posted a short video of her toddler
| son dancing to a Prince song on the Internet.
`----
http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/general/10869/mom-sues-universal-music-dmca-abuse
The RIAA will come to regret its court win
,----[ Quote ]
| And, he told his blog readers: "If [the industry tries to] keep up the
| strategy of 'you need us badly and therefore we make the rules' you will lose
| the artists, their managers... and the audience. Another 12 months for this
| Radiohead experiment to become the default approach. Get engaged or get
| outmoded. And do it soon."
`----
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/08/0810_riaa_comment/
Microsoft Tells Apple To Stop Complaining About DRM
http://www.podcastingnews.com/2007/04/13/microsoft-apple-drm/
Microsoft launches 'PlayReady' DRM system
,----[ Quote ]
| Although digital rights management (DRM) is popular with content
| creators, it has attracted criticism. Sony was widely attacked after
| using a rootkit-like application to hide content protection on some
| music CDs, and earlier this month Apple CEO Steve Jobs called on
| the music industry to drop its use of DRM.
`----
http://news.com.com/2100-1039_3-6158553.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news
Golden Rant : Microsoft DRM's gone too far
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft appears to have hit the wrong button on its critical
| Windows XP download service late last month, pretty well forcing
| every XP user to upgrade to Windows Media Player (WiMP) 11 if
| they (like me and many others) have the automatic download/install
| option enabled for critical updates.
`----
http://securityblog.itproportal.com/?p=712
The Longest Suicide Note in History
,----[ Quote ]
| Gutmann: The genie's out of the bottle before the operating system has even
| been released! But that doesn't mean Vista users in particular - and
| the computer community at large - won't end up paying for Microsoft's
| DRM folly. At the risk of repeating myself repeating myself, yet
| another reason to move to Linux.
`---- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/tux-love/2007/01/the_longest_suicide_note_in_hi.html
DRM in Windows Vista
,----[ Quote ]
| Windows Vista includes an array of "features" that you don't want.
| These features will make your computer less reliable and less secure.
| They'll make your computer less stable and run slower. They will
| cause technical support problems. They may even require you to
| upgrade some of your peripheral hardware and existing software.
| And these features won't do anything useful. In fact, they're
| working against you. They're digital rights management (DRM)
| features built into Vista at the behest of the entertainment
| industry.
|
| And you don't get to refuse them.
`----
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html
Hadron
> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or Impulse
> Tracker
>
Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
You want it? Buy it. Simple.
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | The manual's appendix and online support site provide setup instructions for
> | SAMBA, allowing access over IP instead of with the DRM-infested and
> | poorly-reviewed client app, elsewhere claimed to be "required."
> |
> | MOAR! Samba not enough? Gut the firmware and install made-to-measure Linux:
> | An entire community of folks is here to help you hack your MyBook:
> | mybookworld.wikidot.com.
> `----
>
> http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/12/western-digital.html
>
> ...Just like Vista and its DRM madness. Another reason to run away to Linux, if
> they let you (avoid Seagate).
It is illegal to "share" on Linux as it is elsewhere.
flatfish
<hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>
>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or Impulse
>> Tracker
>>
>
>
>Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
>creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>
>You want it? Buy it. Simple.
Exactly...
These Linux kooks, like Roy and Mark, are just making Linux look silly
by advocating what amounts to theft.
tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
>
> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>
> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
While I agree with the sentiment, I've yet to see a DRM scheme that
did anything more than inconvenience the user while do almost nothing
to protect copyrights. A prime example: I bought some audio books on
I tunes for my trip to Connecticut. Wanted to translate them to MP3
to play on my portable on the way out, but of course Apple doesn't
allow that. I had to jump through major hoops to get them into a
format that was useful. I suppose Apple would like for me to buy an
iPod to simplify things, but I'm more inclined to just not buy stuff
from iTunes anymore.
DRM is just a bad business idea.
Thad
flatfish
wrote:
I agree with you Thad.
DRM, copy protection etc just hurts the honest user and to date has
been proven to not stop piracy.
IMHO the solution is to offer fair prices for the products and people
will flock them.
Look at The Eagles latest album "Long Road Out Of Eden" which
supposedly cost 5 million dollars to produce. An insane amount BTW.
It's $11.98 at Walmart and they can't keep it on the shelves, partly
because it is an excellent album and also because the cost is
reasonable.
Same thing for Barry Manilow's Xmas album which is $7.99 at Hallmark.
They can't keep the thing in stock because the price is good.
Now compare this to some C_rap CD that cost $18.99 and has maybe one
decent tune on it.
And the RIAA wonders why kids are pirating music?
It's the COST and the LACK OF TALENT in today's music.
Plain and simple.
Of course the RIAA will never admit that.
The same thing goes for software.
Microsoft could easily eliminate MOST piracy by offering Vista for
$49.99 and allowing up to 5 home computers to use the single copy.
But they won't.
7
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>
>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>> Impulse Tracker
>>
>
>
> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>
> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
No it isn't you idiot!
YOUR computer must do whatever you tell it to do.
Particularly if you ask it to share files.
It, and Western Digital$ has no rights to call
you a pirate and block your content.
I would thoroughly not recommend any one from ever buying any more
Western Digital$ hard drives and buy seagate or something.
Roy Schestowitz
> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
>
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>
>>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>>> Impulse Tracker
>>>
>>
>>
>> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
>> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>>
>> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
That says a lot about you, 'Hadron'. When people wish to access their music
remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft".
> No it isn't you idiot!
>
> YOUR computer must do whatever you tell it to do.
> Particularly if you ask it to share files.
> It, and Western Digital$ has no rights to call
> you a pirate and block your content.
>
> I would thoroughly not recommend any one from ever buying any more
> Western Digital$ hard drives and buy seagate or something.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | $> unzip; ping; mount /usr; grep; umount& sleep
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 111 total, 1 running, 110 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
flatfish
<newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>____/ 7 on Saturday 08 December 2007 06:20 : \____
>
>> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>>>> Impulse Tracker
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
>>> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>>>
>>> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
>
>That says a lot about you, 'Hadron'. When people wish to access their music
>remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft".
>
>> No it isn't you idiot!
>>
>> YOUR computer must do whatever you tell it to do.
>> Particularly if you ask it to share files.
>> It, and Western Digital$ has no rights to call
>> you a pirate and block your content.
>>
>> I would thoroughly not recommend any one from ever buying any more
>> Western Digital$ hard drives and buy seagate or something.
I can access my music remotely.
Why can't you, Roy Schestowitz?
Oh I see you are using Linux, too bad for you.
So when does the boycott WD site go up?
I'll bet your emailing Seagate, Maxtor and Hitachi right now asking
for financial support for the site.
And just to show you I don't categorically disagree with you just
because you are you, Western Digital drives suck, big time.
They are totally and completely unreliable and collecting on their
warranty is not easy unless your drive was installed by some $6.00/hr
parts swapping retailer.
So I *do* agree with you Roy, don't buy WD drives.
You can just add DRM to the list of why I'll never buy another one.
Peter Köhlmann
> ____/ 7 on Saturday 08 December 2007 06:20 : \____
>
>> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>>>> Impulse Tracker
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
>>> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>>>
>>> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
>
> That says a lot about you, 'Hadron'. When people wish to access their
> music remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft".
>
Oh, Hadron has read the magic word "sharing"
That can *only* mean that users of that device will hang it directly to the
internet.
It certainly can't mean that they put legal content on it. No, not possible.
*Every* Mpeg file will be illegal, without any doubt. DivX can't be legal
ever. AVI files will never be aquired from Camcorders. If you record your
little daughter on your own camcorder in your own house, it *only* can mean
that you are robbing the RIAA and the MPAA of their hard earned income
Well, that's Hadron Quark to a tee
--
Like being presumed a thief and a liar before using a product?
If so, use M$ XP or Vista
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:57:45 +0000, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>>____/ 7 on Saturday 08 December 2007 06:20 : \____
>>
>>> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
>>>
>>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>>>>> Impulse Tracker
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
>>>> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>>>>
>>>> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
>>
>>That says a lot about you, 'Hadron'. When people wish to access their
>>music remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft".
>>
>>> No it isn't you idiot!
>>>
>>> YOUR computer must do whatever you tell it to do.
>>> Particularly if you ask it to share files.
>>> It, and Western Digital$ has no rights to call
>>> you a pirate and block your content.
>>>
>>> I would thoroughly not recommend any one from ever buying any more
>>> Western Digital$ hard drives and buy seagate or something.
>
> I can access my music remotely.
> Why can't you, Roy Schestowitz?
He did not say he can't, flattest brain
> Oh I see you are using Linux, too bad for you.
Does not enter into the equation
< snip more flatfish drivel >
--
Windows: Because everyone needs a good laugh!
flatfish
**************************************
Roy.....Says.......
"That says a lot about you, 'Hadron'. When people wish to access
their music remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft"."
*****************************************
Read into every word you wish, but don't forget the point.
dapunka
[...]
> Look at The Eagles latest album "Long Road Out Of Eden" which
> supposedly cost 5 million dollars to produce. An insane amount BTW.
>
> It's $11.98 at Walmart and they can't keep it on the shelves, partly
> because it is an excellent album and also because the cost is
> reasonable.
>
> Same thing for Barry Manilow's Xmas album which is $7.99 at Hallmark.
> They can't keep the thing in stock because the price is good.
[...]
I hope you're kidding here. But I fear you're not.
Manilow? Sheesh!
As for the Eagles... I wish they'd just fly away.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or Impulse
>> Tracker
>>
> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
MOSTLY
> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
Buy something you got given freely by the owner just for the privilige of
moving it about a little bit? Fuck off.
DRM is guilty until proven innocent.
There are hundreds of reasons people might want to copy legitimate MP3s,
divx, xvid, mp4, etc.
Home movies... Sorry, you're infringing on your own copyright so we can't
allow you to do that anymore.
> It is illegal to "share" on Linux as it is elsewhere.
No, it is as LEGAL to share on linux as elsewhere.
Not all files are copyright infringements.
A lot are but the exceptions make this kinda thing totally unacceptable.
Like talk of banning bittorrent because the bulk of its traffic is tv and
film copyright infringement. If it has a legit use, which bittorrent does,
it's wrong to attempt a ban.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadron
Typical COLA head. Totally unable to accept that others have a different
view. The facts ARE that these things sell well. No one asked YOU to
enjoy them. It's why COLA types design such bad SW as a rule - they do
it for themselves (hey, it's free!) as opposed to looking at the bigger
picture and the needs of Joe Public.
flatfish
Manilow....Price (personally I think he sucks as a singer, but is a
good arranger.).
Eagles....they ain't going anywhere. One of the best bands ever.
Compare them to the shit being produced today.
Amy Winehouse?
Sum41? (I use this to set my VU meters, pure noise).
Missy Misdameanor ? (should be locked up where she belongs).
Just about anything C_rap music.
Most of the current music sucks which is why CD sales are in the tank.
Just looking at the Grammy nominations is enough to make one ill.
Winehouse? Not even listenable and a total drug addict.
She'll be dead in 5 years.. No loss.
Beyonce' ? Horrid....not bad in Dream Girls though.
Foo Fighters? Who???
Carrie Underwood and Kayne West are pretty good.
Most of these people just plain suck....
Without AutoTune (look it up) and a slew of help from the engineer,
they would totally suck.
ml2mst
> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or Impulse
> Tracker
[snip]
Excuse me Western Digital: Impusle Tracker is a free (and very well
documented) file format, used by amateur Tracker Musicians. Almost all
Impulse Tracker files are ether public domain or are published under a
Creative Commons License.
For more information on Impulse Tracker see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_Tracker
More information on Creative Commons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_commons
A free cross platform Tracker Editor that supports the Impulse Tracker
format is Milky Tracker:
--
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
|_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
|0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com
Rick
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>
>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>> Impulse Tracker
>>
>>
>
> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and video
> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
You might want to tell that to vendors that are distributing through
torrents.
>
> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
And again, you will be telling vendors they are not allowed to distribute
through torrents.
>
>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | The manual's appendix and online support site provide setup
>> instructions for | SAMBA, allowing access over IP instead of with the
>> DRM-infested and | poorly-reviewed client app, elsewhere claimed to be
>> "required." |
>> | MOAR! Samba not enough? Gut the firmware and install made-to-measure
>> Linux: | An entire community of folks is here to help you hack your
>> MyBook: | mybookworld.wikidot.com.
>> `----
>>
>> http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/12/western-digital.html
>>
>> ...Just like Vista and its DRM madness. Another reason to run away to
>> Linux, if they let you (avoid Seagate).
>
> It is illegal to "share" on Linux as it is elsewhere.
No, it isn't. "Sharing" isn't illegal anywhere.
--
Rick
Rick
He didn't advocate anything that amounts to theft.
--
Rick
Tim Smith
> While I agree with the sentiment, I've yet to see a DRM scheme that
> did anything more than inconvenience the user while do almost nothing
> to protect copyrights. A prime example: I bought some audio books on
> I tunes for my trip to Connecticut. Wanted to translate them to MP3
> to play on my portable on the way out, but of course Apple doesn't
> allow that. I had to jump through major hoops to get them into a
> format that was useful. I suppose Apple would like for me to buy an
> iPod to simplify things, but I'm more inclined to just not buy stuff
> from iTunes anymore.
What format were they in? I've not bought any audio books through
Apple, but from what I've read, most of their audio books actually come
from audible.com (there are some exclusives that Apple has that
audible.com does not have), and I've bought many from there. Those are
in audible's own format, which iPods, iTunes, and a variety of other
music players can play. Also, some phones and car GPS units can play
them.
You might check--you might actually already have something that can play
them that you didn't know about!
If Apple's audible.com books are in a different format from those same
books when purchased from audible.com, I'd suggest buying direct from
audible.com. You'll still have DRM, but a very large list of devices
support it.
Rick
The point is your dishonesty. He did not say, even according to your
quote, that he can't access his music.
--
Rick
tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
I actually am a little troubled by the use of terms like 'piracy' and
'theft' when we talk about copyright infringement. In this case, you
are not actually denying someone else their property, at most you
are denying a 'potential' sale. I'm not saying its OK to do that,
just that we don't need to create an artificial moral equivalence
with armed thugs. When we hand out harsher punishments for copying
files than we do for armed robbery, something is seriously wrong in
our society.
Because lets be honest here, 'Intellectual Property' is an artificial
construct of our society. It exists only because we all agree that
it does. We, as a society, can decide to radically change it and
society could still function. If the record labels disappeared and
musicians had to make more of their living from merchandising and
touring, well, somehow I think the crops would still get planted and
the world would keep spinning.
Thad
tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
>
> What format were they in? I've not bought any audio books through
> Apple, but from what I've read, most of their audio books actually come
> from audible.com (there are some exclusives that Apple has that
> audible.com does not have), and I've bought many from there. Those are
> in audible's own format, which iPods, iTunes, and a variety of other
> music players can play. Also, some phones and car GPS units can play
> them.
I think it was in m4p format. I know that when I clicked on the option
to translate to another format, I was told it couldn't be done on
'protected' content.
> You might check--you might actually already have something that can play
> them that you didn't know about!
I found a utility from the maker of DeCSS that could supposedly link
to your iTunes account, use your unique key to decode the m4p, and
translate to mp3. It looked like a PITA to get working, so I just
stream ripped the audio out from my Mac and saved it to mp3 for
listening in the car.
> If Apple's audible.com books are in a different format from those same
> books when purchased from audible.com, I'd suggest buying direct from
> audible.com. You'll still have DRM, but a very large list of devices
> support it.
That might be a better option, especially if their DRM is more easily
digested by Linux. So far, stuff from iTunes is the only content I've
had any trouble with on my Ubuntu system.
Thad
Linonut
> Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote:
>>
>> He didn't advocate anything that amounts to theft.
>
> I actually am a little troubled by the use of terms like 'piracy' and
> 'theft' when we talk about copyright infringement. In this case, you
> are not actually denying someone else their property, at most you
> are denying a 'potential' sale. I'm not saying its OK to do that,
> just that we don't need to create an artificial moral equivalence
> with armed thugs. When we hand out harsher punishments for copying
> files than we do for armed robbery, something is seriously wrong in
> our society.
I think MP3 stealers should be hung, or drawn and quartered, or
electrocuted, just as if they had boarded a ship, killed people,
and taken the loot.
> Because lets be honest here, 'Intellectual Property' is an artificial
> construct of our society. It exists only because we all agree that
> it does. We, as a society, can decide to radically change it and
> society could still function. If the record labels disappeared and
> musicians had to make more of their living from merchandising and
> touring, well, somehow I think the crops would still get planted and
> the world would keep spinning.
The "record labels" are, like most other entertainment media, artificial
concentrations of marketing power that serve primarily to feed the egos
and coffers of a few egomaniacs.
--
Tux rox!
Linonut
>> If Apple's audible.com books are in a different format from those same
>> books when purchased from audible.com, I'd suggest buying direct from
>> audible.com. You'll still have DRM, but a very large list of devices
>> support it.
>
> That might be a better option, especially if their DRM is more easily
> digested by Linux. So far, stuff from iTunes is the only content I've
> had any trouble with on my Ubuntu system.
Tried any DRM'ed WMA files?
--
Tux rox!
tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
>
> Tried any DRM'ed WMA files?
No, not yet. My inclination is to avoid DRM'ed content all together,
but sometimes even a 'protected' download is more convenient than
slogging out to the brick-n-mortar store with no guarantee of finding
what you want. Still, I would be buying a LOT more music on-line if
they were not making it so inconvenient to play where I actually
want to listen to it.
Thad
flatfish
wrote:
>I think MP3 stealers should be hung, or drawn and quartered, or
>electrocuted, just as if they had boarded a ship, killed people,
>and taken the loot.
Let's save that for O.J Simpson.
>The "record labels" are, like most other entertainment media, artificial
>concentrations of marketing power that serve primarily to feed the egos
>and coffers of a few egomaniacs.
True, but the distributers are the ones making the most $$$$ of a
typical CD sale. Unless something has changed since the last time I
looked.
flatfish
wrote:
DRM is ultimately going to die.
As soon as the no talents like Madonna, and that glam' band I can't
think of the name of, stop the media blitz claiming they are starving
due to piracy it will slowly die out.
There is a huge movement in the industry to support independent
artists, go out to the smaller venues and purchase their CD's etc.
RadioHead is an example.
People are finally starting to wake up and realize that some no talent
showing off a collection of Ferraris on the MTV show Cribs is not
worth wasting $18.99 per CD on.
The record companies and copyright whores like Harry Fox Agency are
getting nervous and with good reason.
The days of albums with 10 hit cuts like Carole King's Tapestry, or
Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic are long gone.
Sell CDs for $9.99 and piracy will become far less of an issue and in
addition the current generation will discover that CD's sound a hell
of a lot better than some mp3 being played on white ear buds.
Kier
Considering what a CD costs physically to produce, the price of most of
them is daylight robbery, IMO. No wonder sdales are dropping. For me, a
reasonalbe price is ten quid or so (a little more for a double album,
say). I would buy many more than I do now if they weren't so expensive,
particularly new bands.
--
Kier
Kier
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:57:41 -0600, tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
> wrote:
>
>>Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tried any DRM'ed WMA files?
>>
>>No, not yet. My inclination is to avoid DRM'ed content all together,
>>but sometimes even a 'protected' download is more convenient than
>>slogging out to the brick-n-mortar store with no guarantee of finding
>>what you want. Still, I would be buying a LOT more music on-line if
>>they were not making it so inconvenient to play where I actually
>>want to listen to it.
>>
>>Thad
>
> DRM is ultimately going to die.
Agreed. The buying public won't put up with it much longer.
> As soon as the no talents like Madonna, and that glam' band I can't
> think of the name of, stop the media blitz claiming they are starving
> due to piracy it will slowly die out.
There are plenty of good new bands out there (though these days I don't
get the time to listen to them as I once did, sadly). They will grasp the
new opportunities offered by modern technology.
>
> There is a huge movement in the industry to support independent
> artists, go out to the smaller venues and purchase their CD's etc.
> RadioHead is an example.
A small local band in my area got into the charts solely though a
self-produced download single not so long ago.
>
> People are finally starting to wake up and realize that some no talent
> showing off a collection of Ferraris on the MTV show Cribs is not
> worth wasting $18.99 per CD on.
True.
>
> The record companies and copyright whores like Harry Fox Agency are
> getting nervous and with good reason.
> The days of albums with 10 hit cuts like Carole King's Tapestry, or
> Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic are long gone.
Aaahhh, that was record and a half, that one! I went on from that kind of
rock to heavy metal and industrial, but I still have a fondness for good
old stompin' rawk. My brother loved Aerosmith and Led Zep and Deep Purple
and all those bands, and it was a case of get with it or go bonkers from
the row he and his pals made playing the records when we were teenagers.
>
>
> Sell CDs for $9.99 and piracy will become far less of an issue and in
> addition the current generation will discover that CD's sound a hell
> of a lot better than some mp3 being played on white ear buds.
Here, here. Though my hearing is somewhat shot these days, so it makes
less difference to me, I must admit. Too many Saturday nights listening to
club music on a crappy sound system at horrendous volume.
Given that storage and bandwidwth is becoming less and less expensive, it
may be that music will not be forced into compressed formats much longer.
--
Kier
Sinister Midget
Manilow would need to *have* some on the shelves to keep them there.
Any that _used_ to be there are probably already in the discount bins,
or they're getting sold out of miscellaneous boxes in the thrift
stores.
> As for the Eagles... I wish they'd just fly away.
If they weren't keeping the old hippies happy with remakes of remakes,
and new stuff that sounds like remakes of remakes, the old hippies
would still be selling their beads, hash pipes and love oils to the
tune of Peaceful Easy Feelin'. Or something that sounds just like it.
--
Many are educated. Few are learned.
tha...@tux.glaci.delete-this.com
>
> DRM is ultimately going to die.
> As soon as the no talents like Madonna, and that glam' band I can't
> think of the name of, stop the media blitz claiming they are starving
> due to piracy it will slowly die out.
I sure hope you are right. The market pressure is certainly in
that direction. Any tech so customer hostile has inevitably died.
> There is a huge movement in the industry to support independent
> artists, go out to the smaller venues and purchase their Ad's etc.
> RadioHead is an example.
I mostly listen to local and indy bands, not as some sort of social
statement, I just prefer it. One of my favorite bands (Beatallica)
doesn't even sell their music; it is all available as free downloads,
cover art included. They make a decent living from selling
merchandise and touring. They roam around the midwest quite a
bit and have done several European tours.
I always book a band or two for my yearly Halloween bash. This
last Halloween was the first year in a long time that I didn't
throw a party (work schedule didn't allow it). I plan to make
up for it a bit with a Holiday party the last weekend of December.
The emails go out this weekend to line up the bands. I'll admit,
it is my favorite way to listen to music... live and in my own
house. :)
Thad
Peter Köhlmann
The price alone isn't it.
I almost completely stopped buying CDs when the first copy-protected ones
arrived on the market.
You very fast learn that you better not buy CDs which you can't play in the
car, or on the boat (which has a car-stereo). I actually returned them all
(and the shop *did* take them back when I demonstrated that they don't work
on certain car-stereos)
And only an idiot would put an original CD into a car in summer-time.
Apart from the fact that you can't hear it at home, in the car and on the
boat at the same time. So why should one be forced to buy it more than
once, even *if* it would work on a car-stereo in the first place?
In short, implementing copy-protection has cost the record industry a
sizeable chunk of money in my case. Money they did not get because I refuse
to buy their shit. I simply refuse to even look at the CD to see if it
might be copy-protected (or not). I take the same approach as with Erik
Funkenbusch: In his case I assume he is lying (and most of the time I would
be right). In the records case I assume they are copy-protected.
And bothering to actually check just isn't worth it
--
The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners.
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:39:29 -0500, flatfish wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:35:34 -0500, Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think MP3 stealers should be hung, or drawn and quartered, or
>>>>electrocuted, just as if they had boarded a ship, killed people,
>>>>and taken the loot.
>>>
>>> Let's save that for O.J Simpson.
>>>
>>>>The "record labels" are, like most other entertainment media, artificial
>>>>concentrations of marketing power that serve primarily to feed the egos
>>>>and coffers of a few egomaniacs.
>>>
>>> True, but the distributers are the ones making the most $$$$ of a
>>> typical CD sale. Unless something has changed since the last time I
>>> looked.
>>
>> Considering what a CD costs physically to produce, the price of most of
>> them is daylight robbery, IMO. No wonder sdales are dropping. For me, a
>> reasonalbe price is ten quid or so (a little more for a double album,
>> say). I would buy many more than I do now if they weren't so expensive,
>> particularly new bands.
>>
>
> The price alone isn't it.
> I almost completely stopped buying CDs when the first copy-protected ones
> arrived on the market.
I've only run into a few of those, but they're cetainly annoying,
especially when they are from bands I like. I play most of my music from
my PC these days, because it's convenient and easy.
> You very fast learn that you better not buy CDs which you can't play in the
> car, or on the boat (which has a car-stereo). I actually returned them all
> (and the shop *did* take them back when I demonstrated that they don't work
> on certain car-stereos)
Not being a driver, I don't have that problem, but I do take your point.
>
> And only an idiot would put an original CD into a car in summer-time.
> Apart from the fact that you can't hear it at home, in the car and on the
> boat at the same time. So why should one be forced to buy it more than
> once, even *if* it would work on a car-stereo in the first place?
No good reason, that I can think of.
>
> In short, implementing copy-protection has cost the record industry a
> sizeable chunk of money in my case. Money they did not get because I refuse
> to buy their shit. I simply refuse to even look at the CD to see if it
> might be copy-protected (or not). I take the same approach as with Erik
> Funkenbusch: In his case I assume he is lying (and most of the time I would
> be right). In the records case I assume they are copy-protected.
From what I've seen, more aren't protected than are. But that is
completely subjective.
>
> And bothering to actually check just isn't worth it
If I know a band is into copy-protection, I do avoid them, reluctantly.
Not much use in having a portable media device if you can't play stuff on
it.
--
Kier
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:34:06 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
< snip >
>> I simply refuse to even look at the CD to see
>> if it might be copy-protected (or not). I take the same approach as with
>> Erik Funkenbusch: In his case I assume he is lying (and most of the time
>> I would be right). In the records case I assume they are copy-protected.
>
> From what I've seen, more aren't protected than are. But that is
> completely subjective.
Oh, most are not protected. The point is: I simply refuse to even look *if*
they are or not.
If the industry can't get their act to put in giant red ink some sticker on
a CD saying "don't buy me, I have DRM on it" I simply don't think it is
worth *my* time to check if it is or not
>>
>> And bothering to actually check just isn't worth it
>
> If I know a band is into copy-protection, I do avoid them, reluctantly.
> Not much use in having a portable media device if you can't play stuff on
> it.
>
It is much better if all musicians learned the hard way (no income, no CDs
sold, no fame) that the DRM way is the wrong one
For example: My son likes Metallica. But Metallica is one of those bands
unworthy to even piss on if they were on fire for their stance on DRM.
I have explained to him why I will never buy (for him, naturally) any CD
from Metallica, he has to buy it himself, from his monthly allowance.
He understands (in cash, even) why DRM is bad for him
--
Howe's Law: Everyone has a scheme that will not work.
flatfish
Absolutely and look at the so called *artists* making them????
Is this crap really worth $18.99 ?
The RIAA needs a wake up call and you'll be hard pressed to find
ANYONE in the industry that is an industry icon to disagree.
A CD cost less than an LP to manufacture.
Think oil, which is a big part of vinyl.
Recording studio time has not gone up that much since the 70's, mostly
because of competition (IOW everybody has project studio these days)
that they didn't have back in the 70's.
AZ Nomad
>>
>> And only an idiot would put an original CD into a car in summer-time.
>> Apart from the fact that you can't hear it at home, in the car and on the
>> boat at the same time. So why should one be forced to buy it more than
>> once, even *if* it would work on a car-stereo in the first place?
>No good reason, that I can think of.
They'd like to do it like the movie industry and make you buy a copy
for every place you'd like to play it.
I won't buy blue-ray or hd-dvd until either the encryption is broken, or
they provide an opensourced method of playback everywhere I have a player.
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:34:06 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>
> < snip >
>
>>> I simply refuse to even look at the CD to see
>>> if it might be copy-protected (or not). I take the same approach as with
>>> Erik Funkenbusch: In his case I assume he is lying (and most of the time
>>> I would be right). In the records case I assume they are copy-protected.
>>
>> From what I've seen, more aren't protected than are. But that is
>> completely subjective.
>
> Oh, most are not protected. The point is: I simply refuse to even look *if*
> they are or not.
> If the industry can't get their act to put in giant red ink some sticker on
> a CD saying "don't buy me, I have DRM on it" I simply don't think it is
> worth *my* time to check if it is or not
I think some do have an indication of it, but not usually obviously. I
agree there ought ot be something plainly visible, since many people are
now using iPods and other portable media players, and a lot of them will
have ripped their music collections. Buying one you can't rip is
effectively wasting money.
>
>>>
>>> And bothering to actually check just isn't worth it
>>
>> If I know a band is into copy-protection, I do avoid them, reluctantly.
>> Not much use in having a portable media device if you can't play stuff on
>> it.
>>
> It is much better if all musicians learned the hard way (no income, no CDs
> sold, no fame) that the DRM way is the wrong one
It's possible to understand *why* bands want DRM, since digital files can
be so easily copied.
> For example: My son likes Metallica. But Metallica is one of those bands
> unworthy to even piss on if they were on fire for their stance on DRM.
Given how wealthy they are, you'd think they'd be more laid-back about it.
It's not like it can harm them at all.
>
> I have explained to him why I will never buy (for him, naturally) any CD
> from Metallica, he has to buy it himself, from his monthly allowance. He
> understands (in cash, even) why DRM is bad for him
Makes sense. I do like the band, myself, but the DRM thing makes them less
desirable, which is a pity.
--
Kier
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 00:38:02 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
< snip >
>> I have explained to him why I will never buy (for him, naturally) any CD
>> from Metallica, he has to buy it himself, from his monthly allowance. He
>> understands (in cash, even) why DRM is bad for him
>
> Makes sense. I do like the band, myself, but the DRM thing makes them less
> desirable, which is a pity.
>
It is not that I don't like their music. They have done several tracks I
like to listen to, like "Nothing else matters" for example
But their playing hardball with DRM simply puts me off enough not to buy
their stuff
--
I doubt, therefore I might be.
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
> Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Roy, when will you stop advocating theft of people's music and
>> video creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
Idiot.
"Sharing" my /own/ files over my /own/ network ... to a total of /one/
person (me) is "illegal"? Well according to WD it is.
Sharing a self-made podcast, or a wedding video, is "illegal", is it?
How about seeding the torrent of a GNU/Linux distro, is that "illegal" too?
It's coconuts like you tarring /all/ sharing activity with the same
brush, that's created the martial-law environment of self-appointed
industry police that we must all now endure, whilst they and their
lackeys play vigilante with /our/ personal data.
Well fuck the MP/RIAA, fuck Western Digital, and fuck you.
>> You want it? Buy it. Simple.
And how often should I be expected to pay the same license fee for the
same content, exactly? DRM does *not* prevent copyright infringement,
and it does *not* punish copyright violators ... it only punishes those
who legitimately purchase copyrighted material tainted by DRM, who then
try to use that same content on multiple devices, e.g. DAPs and media
servers, like I do. DRM only punishes those who play by the rules. It's
almost as ridiculous and perverted as you are.
I suppose those baseball fans who were summarily denied access to their
/legally/ purchased content, are "criminals" too, are they?:
Hadron, you have the brain of a fossilised pickled walnut, and the moral
integrity of Dr. Mengele. If you're not advocating the destruction of a
*charity* for the sake of what you call "competition", you're denouncing
everyone with media files and a network connection as a "pirate". How
you can even have the audacity to breath and feed oxygen to what's left
of your withered brain, is a mystery, but the fact that you dare to
commit your lunatic vitriol into the public domain of this newsgroup,
defies even the most basic reasoning.
> I'm more inclined to just not buy stuff from iTunes anymore.
Well at least Apple had the sense to provide DRM-free content ...
eventually.
> DRM is just a bad business idea.
Actually DRM is *great* for business, if one's business is ripping-off
consumers. Not so great for the victims though.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites." - Siân Berry,
| Green Party. http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2851
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.9-91.fc7
08:43:11 up 4:29, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.14, 0.23
Johan Lindquist
[H]omer was all like, "Dude,
> Hadron, you have the brain of a fossilised pickled walnut, and
> the moral integrity of Dr. Mengele. If you're not advocating
> the destruction of a *charity* for the sake of what you call
> "competition", you're denouncing everyone with media files and a
> network connection as a "pirate". How you can even have the audacity
> to breath and feed oxygen to what's left of your withered brain, is
> a mystery, but the fact that you dare to commit your lunatic vitriol
> into the public domain of this newsgroup, defies even the most basic
> reasoning.
Don't hold back now, tell us how you /really/ feel.
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
10:22:11 up 15 days, 18:35, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.03, 0.08
Linux 2.6.23.8 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729
Peter Köhlmann
> So anyway, it was like, 09:44 CET Dec 11 2007, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> [H]omer was all like, "Dude,
>
>> Hadron, you have the brain of a fossilised pickled walnut, and
>> the moral integrity of Dr. Mengele. If you're not advocating
>> the destruction of a *charity* for the sake of what you call
>> "competition", you're denouncing everyone with media files and a
>> network connection as a "pirate". How you can even have the audacity
>> to breath and feed oxygen to what's left of your withered brain, is
>> a mystery, but the fact that you dare to commit your lunatic vitriol
>> into the public domain of this newsgroup, defies even the most basic
>> reasoning.
>
> Don't hold back now, tell us how you /really/ feel.
>
Well, I am certain that was the nice, friendly version
--
Tact, n.:
The unsaid part of what you're thinking.
Mark Kent
> So anyway, it was like, 09:44 CET Dec 11 2007, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> [H]omer was all like, "Dude,
>
>> Hadron, you have the brain of a fossilised pickled walnut, and
>> the moral integrity of Dr. Mengele. If you're not advocating
>> the destruction of a *charity* for the sake of what you call
>> "competition", you're denouncing everyone with media files and a
>> network connection as a "pirate". How you can even have the audacity
>> to breath and feed oxygen to what's left of your withered brain, is
>> a mystery, but the fact that you dare to commit your lunatic vitriol
>> into the public domain of this newsgroup, defies even the most basic
>> reasoning.
>
> Don't hold back now, tell us how you /really/ feel.
>
Secretly, they're probably the best of friends :-))
[/me ducks vegetables thrown by Homer ]
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |
Mark Kent
> ____/ 7 on Saturday 08 December 2007 06:20 : \____
>
>> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Hadron wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Western Digital DRM'd Hard Drive Won't Let You Share MP3, DivX ... Or
>>>> Impulse Tracker
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> creations. "Sharing" is mostly illegal.
>>>
>
> remotely, for example, then you consider that "theft".
>
Not really, he's just following the Microsoft Shilcosystem handbook. He
doesn't have his own ideas or thoughts, he's a PR engine, nothing more.
You cannot debate things with a PR engine.
Mark Kent
You can always order the CD or book or whatever online and it'll turn up
in the post. I do this a lot, it works very well. Not so much CDs, as
I don't buy many of those any more, but certainly for books and other
goods, it works very well.
Want an audio-book on your music player? Order the CD, transcode it to
low-band audio format and play it.
Mark Kent
> On 8 Dec, 04:24, flatfish <flatf...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> [...]
>> Look at The Eagles latest album "Long Road Out Of Eden" which
>> supposedly cost 5 million dollars to produce. An insane amount BTW.
>>
>> It's $11.98 at Walmart and they can't keep it on the shelves, partly
>> because it is an excellent album and also because the cost is
>> reasonable.
>>
>> Same thing for Barry Manilow's Xmas album which is $7.99 at Hallmark.
>> They can't keep the thing in stock because the price is good.
> [...]
>
> I hope you're kidding here. But I fear you're not.
>
> Manilow? Sheesh!
>
At least they can play and sing and write songs. Few, if any, of the
current crop of Recording Industry Talent has any talent at all.
kuze...@duke.edu
The Eagles were just one of Joe Walsh's backup bands.
chrisv
>Hadron, you have the brain of a fossilised pickled walnut, and the moral
>integrity of Dr. Mengele. If you're not advocating the destruction of a
>*charity* for the sake of what you call "competition", you're denouncing
>everyone with media files and a network connection as a "pirate". How
>you can even have the audacity to breath and feed oxygen to what's left
>of your withered brain, is a mystery, but the fact that you dare to
>commit your lunatic vitriol into the public domain of this newsgroup,
>defies even the most basic reasoning.
In other words: Quack, you're a piece of sh*t.
[H]omer
> Secretly, they're probably the best of friends :-))
>
> [/me ducks vegetables thrown by Homer ]
Launch the nuclear turnip!
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites." - Siân Berry,
| Green Party. http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2851
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.9-91.fc7
18:09:35 up 13:55, 1 user, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19
[H]omer
> Want an audio-book on your music player? Order the CD, transcode it
> to low-band audio format and play it.
The only audio-books I've ever tried are those "learn while you sleep"
things, but they only cover rather boring subjects like human language
or management skills, rather than something useful like "Learn Python"
or "How to Build a Killer Robot". Shame.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites." - Siân Berry,
| Green Party. http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2851
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.9-91.fc7
18:19:36 up 14:05, 1 user, load average: 0.32, 0.27, 0.20
Mark Kent
> Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
>
>> Secretly, they're probably the best of friends :-))
>>
>> [/me ducks vegetables thrown by Homer ]
>
> Launch the nuclear turnip!
>
Arrgh, quick, run - root vegetable derived fissile material fallout
in the atmosphere...
Mark Kent
> Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
>
>> Want an audio-book on your music player? Order the CD, transcode it
>> to low-band audio format and play it.
>
> The only audio-books I've ever tried are those "learn while you sleep"
> things, but they only cover rather boring subjects like human language
> or management skills, rather than something useful like "Learn Python"
> or "How to Build a Killer Robot". Shame.
>
It depends very much on the reader as well as the book as to how good
they are. Our last family holiday had us listening to an Iain M Banks
book which was both compelling and hysterically funny in parts. It
certainly ate up the miles in and to and from Derbyshire, and caused at
least a temporary truce in the otherwise fairly constant sibling
warfare.